Lata: From Golden to Platinum
Ketan
http://www.screenindia.com/fullstory.php?content_id=9169
From Golden to Platinum
Rajiv Vijayakar
Posted online: Friday, October 01, 2004 at 0000 hours IST
If Lata Mangeshkar completed 75 years at 10.30 p.m. on September 28, 2004, she
correspondingly had crossed 50 at the same time in September 1979. In many ways,
however, the post-1979 phase that followed it has been the most significant
chapter in Lata’s life.
Till September 1979, we merely had Lata as the undisputed topmost female voice,
often recording five live songs a day under various giant and a few new
composers. But after 1979, music underwent a paradigm shift in multiple steps,
leading to Lata curtailing her recordings progressively, and yet dazzling us
when she did go in front of the mike.
In this era, a generational change happened in music makers, filmmakers, tastes,
influences and trends.And yet Lata was there, way ahead of the top names,
omnipresent even otherwise in two remarkable ways: one,through her complete
supremacy with her pre-1980 repertoire, and two,through the fact that it was
largely followers of her school of singing - Anuradha Paudwal, Sadhana Sargam,
Alka Yagnik and Shreya Ghoshal - who emerged as the top singers, despite a
Kavita Subramaniam here and a Sunidhi Chauhan there.
Most important of all, this was the phase that simply saw Lata finally acquire
the status of a living legend. The Bharat Ratna was not the culmination but
simply one of the high spots of a career that saw Lata sing convincingly for
actresses and composers young enough to be her grandchildren. And yet, if one
was unbiased and free of cynicism, we saw in this phase the presence of
substantial Lata memorabilia.
We have had a deluge of Lata compilation albums at every milestone in her
career. So here it is - Screen’s five-volume selection that marks Lata’s Hindi
film bests from her Golden Jubilee to her Platinum - that is, the period from
September 29, 1979 to September 28, 2004.
Such a volume would begin undoubtedly at the beginning, with the cult Lata-Rafi
song of those times that had coins showered by the audience as it was being
enacted by Rishi Kapoor and Jaya Prada on screen, ‘Dafli wale dafli bajaa...’
from Sargam, released in October ‘79. It was written by Anand Bakshi and
composed by the men with whom Lata not only worked most with (during this phase
and otherwise) but who also gave her the greatest vocal and compositional
variety - Laxmikant-Pyarelal.
The second song, ‘Tere liye...’ (with Roopkumar Rathod) would symbolically cover
the end of this era and the beginning of another one as the main music
attraction of Veer-Zaara, whose music was released on September 18 this year and
has been created from unrecorded songs of the late Madan Mohan, Lata’s rakhi
brother, with whom Lata has had a very special and irreplaceable bond even as a
composer. The lyrics are by Javed Akhtar.
Now that the two boundaries have been drawn, we have the field open to explore
the vast expanse within to come up with 48 more gems. The third song here would
be ‘Rimjhim gire saawan...’ (Manzil/ R.D.Burman-Yogesh) as the only other late
1979 remnant before we move on to another,‘Neela aasmaan so gaya...’ as our
choice from Shiv-Hari’s and Javed Akhtar’s sparkling debut Silsila. Number five
would be the stunning mega-hit from Aasha,‘Sheesha ho ya dil...’, another
LP-Bakshi gem.
Move to Side B and we open our account with that serene serenade ‘Mujhe chhoo
rahi hai...’ from Svayamwar (Rajesh Roshan-Gulzar), with the peerless Rafi.
Another Lata-Rafi duet makes it - Khaiyyaam-Sahir’s ‘Simti hui yeh ghadiyan...’,
which is all that one remembers of Chambal Ki Kasam. A song that must be
included though it was unsung at that point, because it incredibly created a
sensation two decades later is ‘Kaliyon ka chaman jab khilta hai...’, composed
by Bappi Lahiri and written by Anand Bakshi for Jyoti.
Number nine would be the song that has made Raag Shivranjani the most overused
raag since then - ‘Tere mere beech mein...’(LP-Bakshi) from Ek Duuje Ke Liye.
The National awards jury awarded co-singer S.P.Balasubramaniam but not Lata for
this film, but we pass this injustice to go to song number ten, where we have
that ‘Perfect 10’ among songs - ‘Solah baras ki bali umar...’ from the same
film. Anup Jalota, walking accidentally into the recording studio to meet
someone, was told by the composers to sing the introductory lines, but the song
perfectly underscores how Lata too deserved the National honour for that film.
Volume Two would begin with Lata’s timeless but unsung beauty from Sahib
Bahadur, Lata’s last collaboration with Madan Mohan in the latter’s lifetime -
‘Mushkil hai jeena bedardon ki duniya mein...(Rajendra Krishan). The music was
released in 1977, but the film came and quietly left the cinema halls in 1980.
The second song here is the only number in which the two foremost global icons
of Hindi cinema - Lata Mangeshkar and Amitabh Bachchan - collaborated - ‘Yeh
kahaan aa gaye hum...’(Silsila) composed by Shiv-Hari and written by Javed
Akhtar.
At number three would be the Nida Fazli-RD delicacy from Harjaee, ‘Tere liye
palkon ki jhaalar bunoo...’.Suresh Wadkar is the singer Lata liked to recommend
most among the post-giants generation, and numbers four and five would be
occupied by two duets in diverse moods, the playful ‘Chal chameli baag
mein...’(Krodhi/LP-AB) and the sublime ‘Bhanwre ne khilaaya phool...’(Prem
Rog/L-P-Pt. Narendra Sharma).At number six, more for showcasing the Lata
spectrum than on merit, we must include the only disco number Lata ever sang -
‘Mere naseeb mein tu hai ke nahin...’(Naseeb/ LP-AB).
The seventh ‘note’ in this volume would be another unsung piece-de-resistance,
this time from Rajesh Roshan-Indeewar - ‘Tujh sang preet lagayi
sajana...’(Kaamchor), a duet with Kishore Kumar. As the young composer with whom
Lata had the most fruitful association, we place two more Lata-Rajesh-Indeewar
beauties in the next two positions, the raag-soaked erotica ‘Tadpat beeti tum
bin yeh raina...’(Jaag Utha Insan) and the intense ‘Dushman na kare dost ne woh
kaam kiya hai...’(Aakhir Kyon?) with Amit Kumar.We complete this list with
Khaiyyaam’s stunning composition for Mir Taqi Mir’s ‘Dikhayi diya yoon ke bekhud
kiya...’in Bazaar.
We move on to Volume Three and begin the collection with three of her finest
songs from the L-P oeuvre, Prof. Vasant Deo’s ‘Man kyoon behka ri
behka...’’(with sis Asha matching strides) in Utsav, Anjaan’s ‘Yashoda ka
Nandlala...’ from Sanjog, and Anand Bakshi’s ‘Jeet jaayenge hum...’(the Nitin
Mukesh version) from Meri Jung. Jumping back a bit in time, we join another
Lata-Nitin sparkler,also composed by L-P, Santosh Anand’s ‘Zindagi ki na toote
ladi...’ from Kranti before completing this side with R.D.Burman’s exquisite
melody ‘Hamein aur jeene ki...’ from Agar Tum Na Hote, written by Gulshan Bawra.
On side two, we open with the Lata-Kishore Saagar title-song by Javed Akhtar) to
continue to Gulzar’s ‘Tumse naraaz nahin zindagi...’ from Masoom, both
R.D.Burman masterpieces. Again to showcase Lata’s variety and pay salaam to the
masses’ choice, we next include ‘Nainon mein sapna...’, the Bappi-Indeewar
trailblazer duet with Kishore Kumar from Himmatwala. The 29th song in this
selection would be another ‘concession to commerce, Usha Khanna-Saawan Kumar’s
Lata-Kishore duet, ‘Shaayad meri shaadi ka khayaal...’ from Souten, and we round
off this volume with the chart-topper that Lata openly if controversially
declared to be a Raj Kapoor composition - the Ravindra Jain-Hasrat Jaipuri hit
‘Sun sahiba sun...’ from Ram Teri Ganga Maili.
Ram Teri Ganga Maili made Mandakini an instant star, and so now on Volume Four
we first look at how Lata Mangeshkar, perhaps even more than in the ‘50s, ‘60s
and ‘70s, helped launch careers. The 31st song in our collection is perhaps the
most important, for Pyar Jhukta Nahin launched an entire music company called
T-Series on the way to big-time - and we select ‘Tumse milkar na jaane
kyoon...’(with Shabbir Kumar) from this L-P-S.H.Bihari album.
We then move to the launch pad of Amrita Singh, Betaab with those literally
dreamy lyrics of Anand Bakshi in the Lata-Shabbir RD-composed duet ‘Jab hum
jawaan honge...’. To add to Lata’s long list of stars whose careers she vocally
helped kick-start (a saga that began with Saira Banu in the 1961 Junglee and
traversed names like Hema Malini, Raakhee, Zeenat Aman, Neetu Singh, Dimple
Kapadia, Tina Munim and Poonam Dhillon and - in this list - Jaya Prada and Rati
Agnihotri), we also include Meenakshi Seshadri, where for obvious reasons we
prefer to choose ‘Nindiya se jaagi bahaar...’(Hero/L-P-AB) over the unsuccessful
(both music- and Meenakshi-wise) debut Painter Babu.
The next two numbers also launched careers - ‘Dil deewana bin sajna ke maane
na...’(Maine Pyar Kiya/Asad Bhopali) which made temporary celebrities out of
Bhagyashree and Raamlaxman, and ‘Anar daana...’, written and composed by
Ravindra Jain for Henna and debutante Zeba Bakhtiar.
On the flip side of Volume Four, we include the song for which Lata won the
Sur-Singar Samsad award, that too while singing for superstar Madhuri Dixit
under L-P - ‘Bada dukh deena...’ for Ram Lakhan(Anand Bakshi). Reportedly
Subhash Ghai had brought about a patch-up then between Lata and L-P (as the diva
and the duo were having differences) because no one else could have done justice
to this ethereal composition.
There was a third film that year that helped revive HMV (now Sa Re Ga Ma)’s
then-plunging fortunes, and that was Chandni. The score was spearheaded in
popularity by Lata’s froth-n-bubblegum Bakshi hit for another icon - Sridevi -
Shiv-Hari’s ‘Mere haathon mein nau nau churiyan hai...’.’ Two more songs follow
- ‘Yeh raat khushnaseeb hai...’(Aaina/Dilip Sen-Sameer Sen/Sameer) and that
haunting Ravindra Jain-written and composed tour-de-force, ‘Jaanewale o
jaanewale...’(Henna) with Suresh Wadkar. We round off this volume with
Raamlaxman’s cult song ‘Didi tera devar deewana...’sung with S.P.
Balasubramaniam for Hum Aapke Hain Koun!...(Dev Kohli).
Volume five begins with the song Jatin-Lalit composed for the ageless singer
without being sure that Lata would deign to sing it - ‘Mere khwabon mein jo
aaye...’(Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge/Anand Bakshi). Two composers whom Lata
regards warmly rank next-Vishal Bhardwaj for ‘Paani paani re...’(Maachis/Gulzar)
and A.R.Rehman for another launching pad, this time for Preity Zinta with ‘Jiya
jale...’(Dil Se../also Gulzar). The fourth position has the Lata number that
stands perennial testimony to how public taste can go off-key - the awesome but
barely heard Shiv-Hari-Anand Bakshi creation ‘Tu saawan main pyaas piya...’ from
Parampara.
Song 45 would be A.R.Rehman’s perfectly-tailored-for-Lata’s-present-range beauty
‘O paalanhaare...’(Lagaan). And we have next a toss-up between LP-AB’s superb
Lata-Anwar duet, ‘Rab ne banaya mujhe...’ from Heer Ranjha (which was recorded a
decade earlier for another film of the same name!) and Jatin-Lalit’s soulful
title-track from Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham..., written by Sameer.
And so we come to the end of this 51-song collection that could well be called
Forever Lata. And in these last four superlative tracks, we find that dream
voice of all time singing, so to speak, on home ground. For the last four songs
in this treasury just have to be those four priceless objects d’art, all
coincidentally written by Gulzar, which were composed so cerebrally by
Hridaynath Mangeshkar for his legendary didi, ‘Yaara seeli seeli...’ and ‘Main
ek sadi se baithi hoon...’ from Lekin, and ‘Ek haseen nigah ka...’ and ‘Yeh
shahar bada purana hai...’ from Maya Memsaab.
V S Rawat वी एस रावत
> Volume five begins with the song Jatin-Lalit composed for
> the ageless singer without being sure that Lata would
> deign to sing it - �Mere khwabon mein jo aaye...�(Dilwale
> Dulhania Le Jayenge/Anand Bakshi).
A good song, but the same film's "ho gayaa hai tujhako to
pyaar sajanaa" is much more soulful.
> Two composers whom Lata regards warmly rank next-Vishal
> Bhardwaj for �Paani paani re...�(Maachis/Gulzar) and
> A.R.Rehman for another launching pad, this time for
> Preity Zinta with �Jiya jale...�(Dil Se../also Gulzar).
> The fourth position has the Lata number that stands
> perennial testimony to how public taste can go off-key -
> the awesome but barely heard Shiv-Hari-Anand Bakshi
> creation �Tu saawan main pyaas piya...� from Parampara.
>
> Song 45 would be A.R.Rehman�s
> perfectly-tailored-for-Lata�s-present-range beauty �O
> paalanhaare...�(Lagaan).
One of the best Lata song in recent times. Somehow the film
version had part of the Lata portion done by some other female.
> And we have next a toss-up between LP-AB�s superb
> Lata-Anwar duet, �Rab ne banaya mujhe...� from Heer
> Ranjha (which was recorded a decade earlier for another
> film of the same name!) and Jatin-Lalit�s soulful
> title-track from Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham..., written by
> Sameer.
>
> And so we come to the end of this 51-song collection that
> could well be called Forever Lata. And in these last
> four superlative tracks, we find that dream voice of all
> time singing, so to speak, on home ground. For the last
> four songs in this treasury just have to be those four
> priceless objects d�art, all coincidentally written by
> Gulzar, which were composed so cerebrally by Hridaynath
> Mangeshkar for his legendary didi, �Yaara seeli seeli...�
>
>
That was a good song
> and �Main ek sadi se baithi hoon...� from Lekin, and �Ek
> haseen nigah ka...� and �Yeh shahar bada purana hai...�
> from Maya Memsaab.
>
However, these three are absolutely mediocre songs, be it
lyrics wise, music wise or Lata wise. Utter confusion is
there in all three.
Kesariya balama, dil huum huum kare, jhuuThii muuTii mitawaa
aawan bole would have been a better choice in place of these
to reflect her recent time.
--
Rawat
Abhay Phadnis
<Ketan_...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> http://www.screenindia.com/fullstory.php?content_id=9169
>
> From Golden to Platinum
>
> Rajiv Vijayakar
> Posted online: Friday, October 01, 2004 at 0000 hours IST
(snip)
> however, the post-1979 phase that followed it has been the most significant
> chapter in Lata’s life.
I hadn't realised that Rajiv Vijaykar's forte was humour.
Warm regards,
Abhay
Richard Turner
> http://www.screenindia.com/fullstory.php?content_id=9169
>
> From Golden to Platinum
>
> Rajiv Vijayakar
> Posted online: Friday, October 01, 2004 at 0000 hours IST
>
> If Lata Mangeshkar completed 75 years at 10.30 p.m. on September 28, 2004, she
> correspondingly had crossed 50 at the same time in September 1979. In many ways,
> however, the post-1979 phase that followed it has been the most significant
What a ridiculous chamcha Vijayakar is. He often gets his facts wrong
regarding the recent history of HFM and anyone with a trained ear will
tell you that Lata has been besur since the 1960s.
>
> In this era, a generational change happened in music makers, filmmakers, tastes,
> influences and trends.And yet Lata was there, way ahead of the top names,
> omnipresent even otherwise in two remarkable ways: one,through her complete
> supremacy with her pre-1980 repertoire, and two,through the fact that it was
> largely followers of her school of singing - Anuradha Paudwal, Sadhana Sargam,
> Alka Yagnik and Shreya Ghoshal - who emerged as the top singers, despite a
> Kavita Subramaniam here and a Sunidhi Chauhan there.
Whilst it is true that all of the above have credited the influence of
Lata in published interviews, each deserves to be admired on their own
merits. Alka has developed a 'crooning' style which is uniquely her
own and I challenge Vijayakar (or anyone) to justify sidelining Kavita
or Sunidhi in such an offhand way.
> And so we come to the end of this 51-song collection that could well be called
> Forever Lata. And in these last four superlative tracks, we find that dream
> voice of all time singing, so to speak, on home ground. For the last four songs
> in this treasury just have to be those four priceless objects d?art, all
> coincidentally written by Gulzar, which were composed so cerebrally by
> Hridaynath Mangeshkar for his legendary didi, ?Yaara seeli seeli...? and ?Main
> ek sadi se baithi hoon...? from Lekin, and ?Ek haseen nigah ka...? and ?Yeh
> shahar bada purana hai...? from Maya Memsaab.
Pass the sick bag. At least Lekin isn't bad...
Richard
http://www.richturner.co.uk
Richard Turner
>
> From Golden to Platinum
>
> Rajiv Vijayakar
> Posted online: Friday, October 01, 2004 at 0000 hours IST
>
> If Lata Mangeshkar completed 75 years at 10.30 p.m. on September 28, 2004, she
> correspondingly had crossed 50 at the same time in September 1979. In many ways,
> however, the post-1979 phase that followed it has been the most significant
What a ridiculous chamcha Vijayakar is. He often gets his facts wrong
regarding the recent history of HFM and anyone with a trained ear will
tell you that Lata has been besur since the 1960s.
>
> In this era, a generational change happened in music makers, filmmakers, tastes,
> influences and trends.And yet Lata was there, way ahead of the top names,
> omnipresent even otherwise in two remarkable ways: one,through her complete
> supremacy with her pre-1980 repertoire, and two,through the fact that it was
> largely followers of her school of singing - Anuradha Paudwal, Sadhana Sargam,
> Alka Yagnik and Shreya Ghoshal - who emerged as the top singers, despite a
> Kavita Subramaniam here and a Sunidhi Chauhan there.
Whilst it is true that all of the above have credited the influence of
Lata in published interviews, each deserves to be admired on their own
merits. Alka has developed a 'crooning' style which is uniquely her
own and I challenge Vijayakar (or anyone) to justify sidelining Kavita
or Sunidhi in such an offhand way.
> And so we come to the end of this 51-song collection that could well be called
> Forever Lata. And in these last four superlative tracks, we find that dream
> voice of all time singing, so to speak, on home ground. For the last four songs
> in this treasury just have to be those four priceless objects d?art, all
> coincidentally written by Gulzar, which were composed so cerebrally by
Ashok
>
>Ketan <Ketan_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:<cjt62...@drn.newsguy.com>...
>> http://www.screenindia.com/fullstory.php?content_id=9169
>>
>> From Golden to Platinum
>>
>> Rajiv Vijayakar
>> Posted online: Friday, October 01, 2004 at 0000 hours IST
>>
>> If Lata Mangeshkar completed 75 years at 10.30 p.m. on September 28, 2004, she
>> correspondingly had crossed 50 at the same time in September 1979. In many ways,
>> however, the post-1979 phase that followed it has been the most significant
>> chapter in Lata?s life.
>
>What a ridiculous chamcha Vijayakar is. He often gets his facts wrong
>regarding the recent history of HFM and anyone with a trained ear will
>tell you that Lata has been besur since the 1960s.
>Richard
Richard, Vijayakar's statement stands by itself as a monument to stupidity.
Why counter a ridiculous statement with another? Lata besur since the 1960s?
Come up with songs--even from the 1970s--where she was besur.
Ashok
Sunil Dandekar
> Ketan <Ketan_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:<cjt62...@drn.newsguy.com>...
> > http://www.screenindia.com/fullstory.php?content_id=9169
> >
> > From Golden to Platinum
> >
> > Rajiv Vijayakar
> > Posted online: Friday, October 01, 2004 at 0000 hours IST
> >
> > If Lata Mangeshkar completed 75 years at 10.30 p.m. on September 28, 2004, she
> > correspondingly had crossed 50 at the same time in September 1979. In many ways,
> > however, the post-1979 phase that followed it has been the most significant
> > chapter in Lata?s life.
>
> What a ridiculous chamcha Vijayakar is. He often gets his facts wrong
> regarding the recent history of HFM and anyone with a trained ear will
> tell you that Lata has been besur since the 1960s.
>
> >
> > In this era, a generational change happened in music makers, filmmakers, tastes,
> > influences and trends.And yet Lata was there, way ahead of the top names,
> > omnipresent even otherwise in two remarkable ways: one,through her complete
> > supremacy with her pre-1980 repertoire, and two,through the fact that it was
> > largely followers of her school of singing - Anuradha Paudwal, Sadhana Sargam,
> > Alka Yagnik and Shreya Ghoshal - who emerged as the top singers, despite a
> > Kavita Subramaniam here and a Sunidhi Chauhan there.
>
> Whilst it is true that all of the above have credited the influence of
> Lata in published interviews, each deserves to be admired on their own
> merits. Alka has developed a 'crooning' style which is uniquely her
> own and I challenge Vijayakar (or anyone) to justify sidelining Kavita
> or Sunidhi in such an offhand way.
>
followed her school of singing, except Sunidhi Chauhan and Kavita
Krishnamuthy . ( SC and KK are only two top singers who have not
followed her style.) If my understanding is correct, it is a indirect
compliment to both of them.
regards,
Sunil
Pradeep
Richard is very blunt when he asserts "...and anyone with a trained
ear will tell you that Lata has been besur since the 1960s."
I have no pretensions to having trained ear, so I always thought Lata
was well in sur through all her songs, at least until, say, mid
ninetees. May be, I was mistaken. Now, I am waiting for Richard to
enlighten me.
...Pradeep
Ajit
Ditto, I too thought that Lata was the embodiment of melody at least
until mid 80s. Thereafter, she sounds consistently screechy and well
out of place especially in the higher notes (IMO). But BESUR in the
SIXTIES!! Give me a break! So it would be interesting to see a list of
songs from the 60s or 70s in which Lata was "besur". IMO, Lata was
fantabulous even in the songs of Razia Sultan, Bazaar, Sunny, Sur
Sangam, Lekin and Subah, and all these are from the 80s or later.
> ...Pradeep
naniwadekar
"Richard Turner" <rich...@hotmail.com> wrote -
>
> Lata is beloved, rather than brilliant, and writers such
> as Vijayakar often > confuse the two.
>
Turner, you should widen your readings on Indian Music
beyond your own magazine and Vijaykar's columns if
you really want to know what acknowledged masters of
music think of Lata's singing. Given the extent of your
ignorance, the recommended length of therapy would
be 2-3 years at least but add to your ignorance your zeal
to spout off opinions and it begins to look as if you would
be better off never opening your mouth on Rmim.
- dn
Richard Turner
>
> Ditto, I too thought that Lata was the embodiment of melody at least
> until mid 80s. Thereafter, she sounds consistently screechy and well
> out of place especially in the higher notes (IMO). But BESUR in the
> SIXTIES!! Give me a break! So it would be interesting to see a list of
> songs from the 60s or 70s in which Lata was "besur". IMO, Lata was
> fantabulous even in the songs of Razia Sultan, Bazaar, Sunny, Sur
> Sangam, Lekin and Subah, and all these are from the 80s or later.
>
For the record, my exact words were '*since* 1969'. See also my reply
to Ashok and an ENT specialist, to get your hearing checked. ;o)
Richard
http://www.richturner.co.uk
Richard Turner
> I think what he meant was: All the top singers of recent times, have
> followed her school of singing, except Sunidhi Chauhan and Kavita
> Krishnamuthy . ( SC and KK are only two top singers who have not
> followed her style.) If my understanding is correct, it is a indirect
> compliment to both of them.
>
> regards,
>
> Sunil
Hmm. You may be right, only his statement is made in the context of a
eulogy to Lata, so the suggestion is that those who follow Lata,
stylistically, are in the majority and therefore, supposedly, an
endorsement or proof of Lata's alleged supremacy.
Almost confused myself there, with all of those qualifications! Sorry.
Richard
http://www.richturner.co.uk
Richard Turner
>
> Richard is very blunt when he asserts "...and anyone with a trained
> ear will tell you that Lata has been besur since the 1960s."
>
> I have no pretensions to having trained ear, so I always thought Lata
> was well in sur through all her songs, at least until, say, mid
> ninetees. May be, I was mistaken. Now, I am waiting for Richard to
> enlighten me.
>
> ...Pradeep
Please see my reply to Ashok. I would add that, in order to develop a
sense of what is besur or not, you really need at least two years'
experience of playing an instrument or singing yourself. Why not give
it a try?
Thanks,
Richard
http://www.richturner.co.uk
Ajit
> musicad...@yahoo.com (Ajit) wrote in message news:<c9042caa.04101...@posting.google.com>...
>
> >
> > Ditto, I too thought that Lata was the embodiment of melody at least
> > until mid 80s. Thereafter, she sounds consistently screechy and well
> > out of place especially in the higher notes (IMO). But BESUR in the
> > SIXTIES!! Give me a break! So it would be interesting to see a list of
> > songs from the 60s or 70s in which Lata was "besur". IMO, Lata was
> > fantabulous even in the songs of Razia Sultan, Bazaar, Sunny, Sur
> > Sangam, Lekin and Subah, and all these are from the 80s or later.
> >
>
> For the record, my exact words were '*since* 1969'.
Here is your statement:
"anyone with a trained ear will tell you that Lata has been besur
since the 1960s."
> See also my reply
> to Ashok and an ENT specialist, to get your hearing checked. ;o)
>
Perhaps the fraternity of India's music directors and classical
musicians too need an ENT appointment ? :) That list would have
included Salilda, SDB,RDB and Jaidev (who continued using "besur Lata"
in the 70s and beyond). Thanks for enlightening me :-)
Abhay Jain
"Richard Turner" <rich...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b7ee82c8.04101...@posting.google.com...
> adhareshwar@gNO_SPAMmail.com (Ashok) wrote in message
news:<2sopt9F...@uni-berlin.de>...
>
> >
> > Richard, Vijayakar's statement stands by itself as a monument to
stupidity.
> > Why counter a ridiculous statement with another? Lata besur since the
1960s?
> > Come up with songs--even from the 1970s--where she was besur.
> >
> >
> > Ashok
>
> more pressing commitments.
>
> I don't have to give individual examples because I am making a general
> point about an artist's career trajectory. Up until, say, 1969 Lata's
> work was usually of an excellent technical standard. Most of us would
> agree that she essentially defined the style to be adopted by later
> female singers in HFM - and even some of her contemporaries. This is
> not so much because she was especially outstanding, but because she
> was in the right place at the right time. The 'Nightingale' tag was
> earned because audiences became familar with her songs over many years
> and not because she was, somehow, the 'best' singer in the country -
> an argument that is as subjective as it is unlikely, given the size of
> the country's population! Having been the leading female vocalist in
> terms of popular recognition for so many years, she certainly merited
> the title of Bharat Ratna, conferred in January, 2001. Lata is
> beloved, rather than brilliant, and writers such as Vijayakar often
> confuse the two.
>
> singers - generally reach their technical 'peak' in their early 30s,
> and begin to decline gradually and more noticeably thereafter.
>
> To satisfy Ashok and others, let us compare two very well-known Lata
> songs. I have selected
> 1. honthon pe aisi baat (Jewel Thief, 1967)
> 2. satyam shivam sundaram (Satyam Shivam Sundaram, 1978)
> [Please excuse any errors in ITRANS here.]
> In the former, Lata (aged 38) puts in a lively and, to most of us,
> satisfying performance but the voice is already noticeably moving
> towards the flat side of the required note. It is not fully besur but
> there is an audible difference in tonal quality compared to what I
> would call her late 1950s heyday.
> In the latter, the singing is definitely, unequivocally besur. Now 49
> years old, Lata really struggles to hit the correct pitch here - a sad
> situation which had become downright farcical by 1998's jiya jale (Dil
> Se).
> I'm afraid I actively avoid hearing any new recordings by Lata
> Mangeshkar.
By "new recordings", you mean post 1969?
AJ
>
> Happy listenings,
> Richard
> http://www.richturner.co.uk
Chetan Vinchhi
"Richard Turner" <rich...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b7ee82c8.04101...@posting.google.com...
>
> point about an artist's career trajectory. Up until, say, 1969 Lata's
> work was usually of an excellent technical standard.
The problem was with using "60's". That was not a decade where
besurapan was a recognizable trait of Lata's singing. No doubt
there were individual instances of her going off-key in the 60's
but then that was true in the 50's as well. Of course by the mid-
60's she had started showing some problems (a premature
ageing of her voice, shrillness in the high notes).
> The 'Nightingale' tag was
> earned because audiences became familar with her songs over many years
> and not because she was, somehow, the 'best' singer in the country -
Give credit where it is due, Rich. She was most certainly one of the
best singers around at the time. Your statements make it sound like
her talent and hard work had no role to play in the development of
her profile as a singer. Such statements are indefensible. And, by
the way, if you drew up a list of "brilliant" playback singers, Lata
would have to be at or near the top of that list.
> I have a theory that performing musicians - both instrumentalists and
> singers - generally reach their technical 'peak' in their early 30s,
> and begin to decline gradually and more noticeably thereafter.
What do you mean by technical peak? Most Hindustani classical
singers attain their performance peaks in their 40s (heck, many of
them have not even seen a major concert platform by their early
30's) and sustain it at least through their 50s.
C
naniwadekar
> which I am entitled to hold, having listened to and
> researched Indian music for several years.
>
Actually, you are NOT entitled to misrepresent your
opinion as some kind of heroic stand against 'writers
such as Vijaykar'. Lata's brilliance has been acknowledged
by artists of genius, among them Bade Ghulam and Salil
Chowdhary. You have wasted your 'several years researching
Indian music' if you are ignorant of things which are known
even to casual observers of the scene.
Now, if you had said that Lata's popularity is confused
for brilliance by people such as Kumar Gandharva, you
would at least have shown greater courage of conviction;
and rating for your ability to amuse could also have been
upgraded in the process.
- dn
Pradeep
> not so much because she was especially outstanding, but because she
> earned because audiences became familar with her songs over many years
> and not because she was, somehow, the 'best' singer in the country -
> the country's population!
You will agree that it takes much more than the core technicalities to
be a good playback singer and then to hold onto that position for
decades. Chetan Vinchhi summarised the atributes of a good playback
snger in another thread succintly:
"Versatility, emoting capability, ability to grasp and carry a tune,
voice quality, pronunciation, breathing technique, sense of rhythm,
registeral flexibility, ability to parse words (not necessarily in
that order) and so on."
I and many others believe Lata had all these abilities aplenty and
that's why she was adored as the best female playback singer of HFM
between 50's and 80's. You have, in one fell swoop, belittled not just
Lata, but also all the music directors she sang for through the period
in question (now shifted to 70's onwards).
Also, thanks for the advice to learn playing a musical instrument;
I'll try. But I wonder how far will it take me in developing a real
'good ear'. Or is this business of feeling someone is 'besur', a
highly subjective one, no matter whatver are one's abilities to play
instrument or to sing? In a thread on rmic not so long ago, some
people made a point that Ustad Dilshad Khan is 'always besur'.
Eviently, your opinion of this singer is quite different, since you
give him a place of pride on your web site.
....Pradeep
shri kumar
Voice showing effects of age she is No.1.. I have statement of Bade
Gulam ali khan saab to support me. Call me Chamacha , call me deaf,
call me what you want..but to me she is #1. I am not an adamant
person and would change my opinion if someone gives one ( and only
one) example of her besurapan..any takers...?