Roopak Songs
Pradeep
number of beats. A few examples come to my mind:
From HFM:
1. Hai Isi Me Pyar ki Aabroo (MM)
A song with lead music that, in my opinion, is the most difficult
ever in HFM, in terms of rhythm; I still can't get my head around it.
2. Aap Ki Nazaron Ne Samjha (MM) **
3. Apni To Har Aah Ik Toofan Hai (SDB)**
4. Mere Dil Se Aa Ke Lipat Gayi (MM) **
5. Aapki Baate Kare Ya (MM)
6. O Basanti Pawan Paagal (SJ)
** : These songs have no proper tabla accompanyment; but the guitar
strumming is so appropriate, one doesn't seem to feel amything amiss
with it! Especially noteworthy is the SDB gem. The song is sung in a
train, and the beat that should match the clangs best is keherwah
(four beats). Yet, the seven beat taal seems so 'natural' I can't
imagnine this song being set to any other taal!
Marathi songs:
1. Shukra Taata Mand Waara
2. De Mala Ge Chandrike Preeti Tujhi
3. Malmali Tarunyaa Maaze (part)
A very gimmicky song, quite unduly so.
Please add more to these lists, folks.
Any idea who were MM's arrangers? From what I know, Sonik amd Omi were
with him, as well as Shyamji Ghanashyamji. Zakir says a few words in
MM's Legend CD album. He begins with the name of one of these
arrangers, as "Master......" and the name comes through rather
muffled. My curiosity about MM's arrangers is owing to the preference
to guitar over tabla for songs such as Aap Ki Nazaron Ne Samjha.
Wonder who were behind this crafty idea!
.....Pradeep
Binod Thapa
Teri Bindia (SDB) was a 7 beat Rupak Taal. Is this true?
Binod.
"Pradeep" <pras...@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:e512a42b.03031...@posting.google.com...
KIAnwar
SD Burman is simply unmatched in this
Taal...................
megha chahaey aadhi raat bairun...Lata
terey merey sapane ab aik rung....Rafi
mehbooba teri tasveer kistarha.....Rafi
kaheiN bekhayaal ho ker yuhiN....Rafi
aisey tu na dekho keh hum ko.....Rafi
Regards,
Irfan
UVR
> It is amazing how we hum with ease, songs set to this taal with an odd
> number of beats. A few examples come to my mind:
>
> From HFM:
>
> 1. Hai Isi Me Pyar ki Aabroo (MM)
> A song with lead music that, in my opinion, is the most difficult
> ever in HFM, in terms of rhythm; I still can't get my head around it.
>
> 2. Aap Ki Nazaron Ne Samjha (MM) **
> 3. Apni To Har Aah Ik Toofan Hai (SDB)**
> 4. Mere Dil Se Aa Ke Lipat Gayi (MM) **
> 5. Aapki Baate Kare Ya (MM)
> 6. O Basanti Pawan Paagal (SJ)
>
> Please add more to these lists, folks.
Since you're interested in taal and tabla bols, here's
something you may like to read. Dr. Preeti Panda had
posted an RJGK quiz comprised entirely of songs set to
the roopak (including deepchandii[*]) and jhap taals.
Search for "RJGK 57: Beats on the unbeaten track" in
the Google RMIM archives to read the quiz, the answers
post, etc. For maximum enjoyment, you may wish to try
solving the quiz before reading the answers :)
Following the conclusion of the quiz, Preeti had also
posted a list titled "Songs and their Taals". You can
access that post here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3A8872D4.5221BE3B%40synopsys.com&rnum=1
-UVR.
[*] Yes, I do know that a lot of people consider roopak
and deepchandii to be different taal-s. I don't know
either way. If someone can explain the difference bet-
ween the two, I'll be grateful. TIA.
animesh kumar
>
> From HFM:
>
> 1. Hai Isi Me Pyar ki Aabroo (MM)
> A song with lead music that, in my opinion, is the most difficult
> ever in HFM, in terms of rhythm; I still can't get my head around it.
I find the following songs, similar in tune to "hai isii me pyaar kii
aabaruu", am I mistaken,
tujhe kyaa sunaa_uu.N mai dilarubaa - rafi - aakhiri dao
zaraa sun hasiinaa e naazaniin mera dil tujhii pe nisaar hai - rafi song
(forgot the movie)
ye hawaa ye raat ye chandni terii ik adaa pe nisaar hai - talat - sangdil
Are there more ghazals with similar meter/singing,
best regards
Animesh
UVR
> A lay man's query
>
>>From HFM:
>>
>>1. Hai Isi Me Pyar ki Aabroo (MM)
>> A song with lead music that, in my opinion, is the most difficult
>>ever in HFM, in terms of rhythm; I still can't get my head around it.
>
>
> I find the following songs, similar in tune to "hai isii me pyaar kii
> aabaruu", am I mistaken,
>
> tujhe kyaa sunaa_uu.N mai dilarubaa - rafi - aakhiri dao
> zaraa sun hasiinaa e naazaniin mera dil tujhii pe nisaar hai - rafi song
> (forgot the movie)
> ye hawaa ye raat ye chandni terii ik adaa pe nisaar hai - talat - sangdil
>
> Are there more ghazals with similar meter/singing,
See my other post on this topic. Also, a few songs (that
don't figure in Preeti's songs and taals list):
Saigal:
. Gham diye mustaqil, kitnaa naazuk hai dil
Rafi:
. mujhe dard-e-dil kA patA na thA, mujhe aap kis liye mil gaye
. subhaan allaah, hasii.n cheharaa
. na jaane kyuu.N hamaare dil ko tumane dil nahii.n samajhaa
. na kisi kii aa.Nkh kaa nuur huu.N
. mere pyaar me.n tujhe kyaa milaa
. kahii.n beKhayaal ho kar
(Don't know why I remember this Sonu Nigam song)
. mere hamsafar, mere hamsafar ...
-UVR.
Satish Kalra
"UVR" <u...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:v76pg65...@corp.supernews.com...
Because it is a beautiful song. :-)
Happy Listenings.
Satish Kalra
Ajit
> > (Don't know why I remember this Sonu Nigam song)
> > . mere hamsafar, mere hamsafar ...
>
> Because it is a beautiful song. :-)
>
Indeed. It is an extremely melodious song. In fact, most of the songs
of the Refugee soundtrack are really beautiful. No matter what we say
about Annu Mallick, he deserves credit for the good songs of Refugee
and Border. Another nice song by Annu Mallick, is an Udit Narayan -
Alka Yagnik duet from "Hum aapke dil mein rehte hein". It is something
like "aapko dekha to phoolon ko paseena aa gayaa...are maahi..".
Absolutely gorgeous tune! And both Alka abnd Udit rise on the
occasion!
KIAnwar
Another SD's gem, one of my all-time favorites.............
baghooN meiN kaisey ye phool khiltey heiN.....Mukesh/Lata...Chupke Chupke
Irfan
Pradeep
Terey Merey Sapne and Aisey To Na Dekho are set to Dadra.(Six beats).
Only the way it is played is a bit different from the usual plain
theka. The rest are in roopak. And so is Teri Bindiya Re (as put in
by Binod). Thanks
I remember yet one more SDB song: Piya Tose Naina Laage Re!!
....Pradeep
Pradeep
> A lay man's query
> >
> > From HFM:
> >
> > 1. Hai Isi Me Pyar ki Aabroo (MM)
> > A song with lead music that, in my opinion, is the most difficult
> > ever in HFM, in terms of rhythm; I still can't get my head around it.
>
> I find the following songs, similar in tune to "hai isii me pyaar kii
> aabaruu", am I mistaken,
>
> tujhe kyaa sunaa_uu.N mai dilarubaa - rafi - aakhiri dao
> zaraa sun hasiinaa e naazaniin mera dil tujhii pe nisaar hai - rafi song
> (forgot the movie)
> ye hawaa ye raat ye chandni terii ik adaa pe nisaar hai - talat - sangdil
>
> Are there more ghazals with similar meter/singing,
>
> best regards
> Animesh
Tujhe Kyaa Sunnaun Main Dilruba and Ye Hawaa Ye Raat are both set to
Roopak. I don't know the Zaraa Sun.. song.
Pradeep
Pradeep
> Another SD's gem, one of my all-time favorites.............
> baghooN meiN kaisey ye phool khiltey heiN.....Mukesh/Lata...Chupke Chupke
>
> Irfan
Irfan
A lovely SDB number, all right. But yet again, this is Dadra (Six Beats)
....Pradeep
Pradeep
In my previous reply to this post, I wrote "Terey Merey Sane" and
"Aisey To Na Dekho" as being set to Ek Taal. That was a mistake; they
are both set to Dadraa.
My apologies.
...Pradeep
Pradeep
> Since you're interested in taal and tabla bols, here's
> something you may like to read. Dr. Preeti Panda had
> posted an RJGK quiz comprised entirely of songs set to
> the roopak (including deepchandii[*]) and jhap taals.
> Search for "RJGK 57: Beats on the unbeaten track" in
> the Google RMIM archives to read the quiz, the answers
> post, etc. For maximum enjoyment, you may wish to try
> solving the quiz before reading the answers :)
>
> Following the conclusion of the quiz, Preeti had also
> posted a list titled "Songs and their Taals". You can
> access that post here:
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3A8872D4.5221BE3B%40synopsys.com&rnum=1
>
> -UVR.
>
> [*] Yes, I do know that a lot of people consider roopak
> and deepchandii to be different taal-s. I don't know
> either way. If someone can explain the difference bet-
> ween the two, I'll be grateful. TIA.
A major difference is that Deepchandi has 14 beats, Roopak has 7. (To
be pedantic, there are two different Deepchandi's: one with 14 beats,
one with 16 beats. They are best classified as 14-beat Deepchandi, and
16-beat Deepchandi).
Another subtle difference between Roopak and the 14-beat Deepchandi is
that the way their Bhari ('Open'?) and Khaali ('Close'?) beats arrive
during the respective cycles. Roopak begins with a Khaali while
14-beat D begins with a Bhari, and has it's Khaali midway through.
[A Bhari is a syllable with the bayaan playing it's normal bass note;
a Khaali is one where the normal bass note of a bayaan is stiffled. I
am not sure what English terms are for these].
Also, thanks for the pointer to Preeti Ranjan's post. That list is
quite comprehensive!!
.....Pradeep
animesh kumar
> > A lay man's query
> > >
> > > From HFM:
> > >
> > > 1. Hai Isi Me Pyar ki Aabroo (MM)
> > > A song with lead music that, in my opinion, is the most difficult
> > > ever in HFM, in terms of rhythm; I still can't get my head around it.
> >
> > I find the following songs, similar in tune to "hai isii me pyaar kii
> > aabaruu", am I mistaken,
> >
> > tujhe kyaa sunaa_uu.N mai dilarubaa - rafi - aakhiri dao
> > zaraa sun hasiinaa e naazaniin mera dil tujhii pe nisaar hai - rafi song
> > (forgot the movie)
> > ye hawaa ye raat ye chandni terii ik adaa pe nisaar hai - talat -
sangdil
> >
> > Are there more ghazals with similar meter/singing,
> >
> > best regards
> > Animesh
>
> Tujhe Kyaa Sunnaun Main Dilruba and Ye Hawaa Ye Raat are both set to
> Roopak. I don't know the Zaraa Sun.. song.
>
If the other two were right, then the third is right too. BTW, I like the
zaraa sun hasiinaa e naazaniin song most, a must listen,
let me post the lyrics, in my veritable gems series,
animesh
> Pradeep
Surma Bhopali
> It is amazing how we hum with ease, songs set to this taal with an odd
> number of beats. A few examples come to my mind:
>
> From HFM:
>
> 1. Hai Isi Me Pyar ki Aabroo (MM)
> A song with lead music that, in my opinion, is the most difficult
> ever in HFM, in terms of rhythm; I still can't get my head around it.
>
> 2. Aap Ki Nazaron Ne Samjha (MM) **
> 3. Apni To Har Aah Ik Toofan Hai (SDB)**
> 4. Mere Dil Se Aa Ke Lipat Gayi (MM) **
> 5. Aapki Baate Kare Ya (MM)
> 6. O Basanti Pawan Paagal (SJ)
>
I am zero in classical knowledge. However, from your list I would
imagine this beautiful duet from Halaaku belongs to the same taal. Am
I wrong?
- aajaa ke intezaar me.n jaane ko hai bahaar bhi (Rafi/Lata)
I am a fan of Rafi's voice of this age. Are the following songs also
based on Roopak taal?
- mere mahabuub tujhe merii muhabbat kii qasam
- aa.nsuu.n bharii hai ye jiivan kii raahe.n
- koii saaGar dil ko bahalaataa nahii.n
- aapke pahaluu me.n aakar ro diye
<snip>
> Marathi songs:
>
> 1. Shukra Taata Mand Waara
Shouldn't this be "shukra taaraa mand waaraa" (Shrinivas KhaLe). A
lovely song.
<snip>
Chith Eshwaran
> [*] Yes, I do know that a lot of people consider roopak
> and deepchandii to be different taal-s. I don't know
> either way. If someone can explain the difference bet-
> ween the two, I'll be grateful. TIA.
>
> A major difference is that Deepchandi has 14 beats, Roopak has 7. (To
> be pedantic, there are two different Deepchandi's: one with 14 beats,
> one with 16 beats. They are best classified as 14-beat Deepchandi, and
> 16-beat Deepchandi).
>
> Another subtle difference between Roopak and the 14-beat Deepchandi is
> that the way their Bhari ('Open'?) and Khaali ('Close'?) beats arrive
> during the respective cycles. Roopak begins with a Khaali while
> 14-beat D begins with a Bhari, and has it's Khaali midway through.
>
> [A Bhari is a syllable with the bayaan playing it's normal bass note;
> a Khaali is one where the normal bass note of a bayaan is stiffled. I
> am not sure what English terms are for these].
>
True. Let me add ...
A look at the traditional (classical) theka definition can show the
difference between the two taals clearly. Even though the clasical theka is
often suitably changed for light and film music.
Roopak is a 7-beat taal: theka is "thi thi na, dhi na, dhi na". One of the
few taals where the first beat is light, without using the bayan.
Deepchandi (the common version) is a 14-beat taal: theka is "dha dhin $, dha
dha thin $, tha thin $, dha dha dhin $"; the $ sign being one beat duration
of nothing (silence). Though a multiple of roopak, it gives an entirely
different feel due mainly to the blanks and the different sounding bols; a
roopak song will not sound good under Deepchandi and vice versa. A
Deepchandi beat is often played faster than a Roopak beat.
Ek Tanhaa
---------------------------------------------------------------
Dosto,
I find this discussion on Roopak very instructive. As a beginner, I
found singing songs set to Roopak very difficult. I would forcefully
convert them to dadra, and then give up. The biggest problem was the
Khali as the sum. I just didnt hear a clear SUM. So, while trying
the various taals on the Tabla machine, I found TEVRA taal. Its of 7
beats and has a distinct SUM. I could then sing most of the Roopak
songs to this taal.
One of my favorites was:
Rafi - Nav kalpana nav roop say rachna rachi jub naar ki
This went very well with TEVRA. but now I can sing it in Roopak also.
I would appreciate if some one could put TEVRA in context of the
discussion of classical taals.
Tanhaa
UVR
> Dosto,
>
> I find this discussion on Roopak very instructive. As a beginner, I
> found singing songs set to Roopak very difficult. I would forcefully
> convert them to dadra, and then give up. The biggest problem was the
> Khali as the sum. I just didnt hear a clear SUM. So, while trying
> the various taals on the Tabla machine, I found TEVRA taal. Its of 7
> beats and has a distinct SUM. I could then sing most of the Roopak
> songs to this taal.
>
> One of my favorites was:
>
> Rafi - Nav kalpana nav roop say rachna rachi jub naar ki
>
> This went very well with TEVRA. but now I can sing it in Roopak also.
> I would appreciate if some one could put TEVRA in context of the
> discussion of classical taals.
>
> Tanhaa
Good that you mentioned tevRaa, Tanhaa-ji. In a recent
episode of ZeeTV's SaReGaMaPa, Jagjit Singh, appearing
as judge along with Abida Parveen, asked one of the
female contestants if she knew the taal to which 'aap
kii nazaro.n ne samajhaa' is set. When the girl replied
'tevRa', JS gave her a smirky smile and said 'it's roopak,
isn't it?', giving the general impression that this is a
'you say tomahto, I say tomaeto' situation.
-UVR.
PS: Arun Iyengar, if you're reading this: doesn't the
roopak-tevRaa relationship sound like the relationship
between the misra chaapu and tripuTa taaLa-s?
Ritu
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Dosto,
>
> I find this discussion on Roopak very instructive. As a beginner, I
> found singing songs set to Roopak very difficult. I would forcefully
> convert them to dadra, and then give up. The biggest problem was the
> Khali as the sum. I just didnt hear a clear SUM. So, while trying
> the various taals on the Tabla machine, I found TEVRA taal. Its of 7
> beats and has a distinct SUM. I could then sing most of the Roopak
> songs to this taal.
>
> One of my favorites was:
>
> Rafi - Nav kalpana nav roop say rachna rachi jub naar ki
>
> This went very well with TEVRA. but now I can sing it in Roopak also.
> I would appreciate if some one could put TEVRA in context of the
> discussion of classical taals.
Very insightful discussion on Roopak and Deepachandi. And very
opportune time too because I got introduced to this taal just this
week! It is a little tricky because even while singing one is supposed
to give a little 'jhatka' after every sub-set. I am still struggling
with it :)
My question to the experts is, in 'Piya Tose Naina laage re'.. there
are some Tabla bols.. 'Dhi na k Dhin Dhin, Dhin na k dhin Dhin'. Do
they follow the same taal? Are these bols actually indicative of the
theka and taal or are they just there for cosmetic purposes?
Also if they actually are genuine bols, how do they sit into the
Roopak format that was mentioned before. The format we spoke of was
3-2-2. This one seems different. Is this theka a common alternative
theka for Roopak or is it specific to this song?
It would be an interesting exercise if we could point out some
imaginative thekas for this taal in HFM.
Another song that seems to be rhythmically very ear-catching to me is
'Piya sang khelo holi phagun aayo re'. This song also has some tabla
bols. What Taal is this song in?
Thanks
Ritu
P.S I am at Grade 0 of learning about rhythm. I hope my questions
don't sound too stupid.
Pradeep
> Tanh...@yahoo.com (Ek Tanhaa) wrote in message
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > Dosto,
> >
> > I find this discussion on Roopak very instructive. As a beginner, I
> > found singing songs set to Roopak very difficult. I would forcefully
> > convert them to dadra, and then give up. The biggest problem was the
> > Khali as the sum. I just didnt hear a clear SUM. So, while trying
> > the various taals on the Tabla machine, I found TEVRA taal. Its of 7
> > beats and has a distinct SUM. I could then sing most of the Roopak
> > songs to this taal.
> >
> > One of my favorites was:
> >
> > Rafi - Nav kalpana nav roop say rachna rachi jub naar ki
> >
> > This went very well with TEVRA. but now I can sing it in Roopak also.
> > I would appreciate if some one could put TEVRA in context of the
> > discussion of classical taals.
Really don't know what Tevra is. As a student of tabla, never came
across it. Tanhaa, could you put down for us, the Boals for this taal,
please?
A taal is distinguished by (a) the number of beats to a cycle (b) the
weightage, as in 3+2+2 for roopak and (c)the points along the cycle
where the khaali and bhaari are. Therefore Tevra would have to differ
from Roopak to be classified as a distinct taal, in these three
respects.
I would prefer to attribute Aap Ki Nazaronen to Roopak because it has
seven beats to a cycle, and has a distinct 3+2+2 weightage.
>
> Very insightful discussion on Roopak and Deepachandi. And very
> opportune time too because I got introduced to this taal just this
> week! It is a little tricky because even while singing one is supposed
> to give a little 'jhatka' after every sub-set. I am still struggling
> with it :)
>
> My question to the experts is, in 'Piya Tose Naina laage re'.. there
> are some Tabla bols.. 'Dhi na k Dhin Dhin, Dhin na k dhin Dhin'. Do
> they follow the same taal? Are these bols actually indicative of the
> theka and taal or are they just there for cosmetic purposes?
>
> Also if they actually are genuine bols, how do they sit into the
> Roopak format that was mentioned before. The format we spoke of was
> 3-2-2. This one seems different. Is this theka a common alternative
> theka for Roopak or is it specific to this song?
I am not an expert. But I will narrate whatever little I know.
These boals, "Dhinak Dhin Dhin, Teenak Dhin Dhin" actually make up two
x (7 beat cycles), and in the strictest sense do not belong to roopak.
These exact bols are a 'distortion' of a more popular 14 beat theka,
"Dhaa tete Dhaag Tin, Taa tete Dhaag Dhin", [Uppercase syllables are
where the beat is]whose name I don't know (if there is one). It is
only a theka for accompanyment, and not a taal, per se. To the extent
that this theka also has 2 x (3+2+2) pattern, it may be 'mixed up'
with Roopak during accompanyments (other than for khyaal gayan).
>
> It would be an interesting exercise if we could point out some
> imaginative thekas for this taal in HFM.
Two examples of this 14 beat theka , "Dhaa tete Dhag Teen,....." from
HFM are "Ye Neer Kahaase Barse" [Lata: Jaidev], or "Ishaaron,
Ishaaron, Mein Jaddo Chalaana" [Asha:OPN].
....Pradeep
Ek Tanhaa
---------------------------------------------------------
Dosto,
Here are some of my comments on songs discussed in this thread.
1. Pradep bhai, the bol of Tevra are as follos:
version 1: dhin, dha, tin, ti-re, ki-te, ga-di, gi-ne.
version 2: dhin, ti-re-ki-te, dhin, na, ti-re-ki-te, tin, na.
I have taken these from my tabla software.
The orign of this taal is the Pakhawaj. so we can say that Tevra is
the 7 beat theka of Pakhawaj just like Roopak is the 7 beat theka of
the Tabla.
2. The following two songs are in 7 beat theka but definitely not
Roopak.
1. Isharoo-n Isharoo-n mayin dil lene waale
2. Gum diye mustakil , kitan naazuk hai dil
I find it impossible to sing them in Roopak as played my my tabla
Software or the tabla HW machine. So I asked my friend, an
accomplished Tabla player, to play for me, every thing was absolutely
perfect. He tells me that the name of the taal is "chachar" and its 7
beat theka.
But now I have a problem. My tabla HW machine has "chachar" as one
of the thekas labled on one of the buttons, and its a 16 beat theka.
So now Im not sure what is "chachar" My Tabla Software has no theka
called "chachcar" listed as one of the pre programmed thekas.
So all I can say is that these two songs are in 7 beat theka , but not
Roopak. What is name , is still to be determined!!!!
3. I sang the folowing songs with the Tabla HW and SW and my
observations are as follows:
- mere mahabuub tujhe merii muhabbat kii qasam--definitely a slow 7
beat but standard Roopak doesnt sound too good. Will Sing with my
friend next week and get an answer.
- aa.nsuu.n bharii hai ye jiivan kii raahe.n -- Roopak
- koii saaGar dil ko bahalaataa nahii.n -- Roopak
- aapke pahaluu me.n aakar ro diye -- Roopak
Would like to get your opinions !!
Tanhaa
-----------------------------------------------
UVR
>
> 3. I sang the folowing songs with the Tabla HW and SW and my
> observations are as follows:
>
> - mere mahabuub tujhe merii muhabbat kii qasam--definitely a slow 7
> beat but standard Roopak doesnt sound too good. Will Sing with my
> friend next week and get an answer.
>
> - aa.nsuu.n bharii hai ye jiivan kii raahe.n -- Roopak
> - koii saaGar dil ko bahalaataa nahii.n -- Roopak
> - aapke pahaluu me.n aakar ro diye -- Roopak
>
> Would like to get your opinions !!
>
> Tanhaa
While (it is obvious that) I'm no rhythm wizard, I think
'mere mahabuub', 'koii saaGar' and 'aap ke pahaluu me.n'
are all set to daadraa (6-beats). One can sing them in
"roopak" taal, but it would have to be the one used in
Carnatic music, not Hindustani. :D
'aa.Nsuu bharii hai.n' is set to jhap taal (5-beats).
One example of a song where the tune is set to a 7-beat
taal while the lyrics (when read/recited sans the tune)
follow have an inherent 5-beat rhythm is this, which was
mentioned by Ashok not too long ago --
'sabaa se ye kah do ki kaliyaa.N bichhaae'
-UVR.
Arun Iyengar
<snipped>
> Good that you mentioned tevRaa, Tanhaa-ji. In a recent
> episode of ZeeTV's SaReGaMaPa, Jagjit Singh, appearing
> as judge along with Abida Parveen, asked one of the
> female contestants if she knew the taal to which 'aap
> kii nazaro.n ne samajhaa' is set. When the girl replied
> 'tevRa', JS gave her a smirky smile and said 'it's roopak,
> isn't it?', giving the general impression that this is a
> 'you say tomahto, I say tomaeto' situation.
>
> -UVR.
>
> PS: Arun Iyengar, if you're reading this: doesn't the
> roopak-tevRaa relationship sound like the relationship
> between the misra chaapu and tripuTa taaLa-s?
That's right. Tishra triputa and mishra chaapu have the same meter and I
just don't know the difference between the two though the way you count is
different. Tishra triputa has a lagu (3 counts) and two drutas (two counts
each) while mishra chaapu has 3 drutas with the first druta having 3 counts
and the next two with 2 counts each. When you learn carnatic classical
music, you learn "alankaaras" (basically some swara sangathis that fit the
taala's meter) in 7 different taalas of which tishra triputa is one. But the
missing ones are mishra chaapu and khanda chaapu (ta ka ta ki ta - 5 beats).
Later while learning 7-beat taala kiirthanas (compositions), you invariably
use mishra chaapu. I can't remember any kiirthanas with tishra triputa
taala. Anyone?
A
--
(Remove 999 to reply)
PS. Cross posting to RMIC, so that someone more knowledgeable can jump in.
UVR
>
> When you learn carnatic classical
> music, you learn "alankaaras" (basically some swara sangathis that fit the
> taala's meter) in 7 different taalas of which tishra triputa is one. But the
> missing ones are mishra chaapu and khanda chaapu (ta ka ta ki ta - 5 beats).
> Later while learning 7-beat taala kiirthanas (compositions), you invariably
> use mishra chaapu. I can't remember any kiirthanas with tishra triputa
> taala. Anyone?
I know one: 'brihaspate taaraapate brahmajaate namo.astu te'
(raaga aThaaNaa, Dikshitar navagraha kriti).
As long as we are in RMI*Carnatic* land :), observe that few
kritis/kiirtanas set to misra chaapu taalam have the eDuppu
at the samam. Infact, everything I can recall right now has
an anaagatha eDuppu (the song starts after the taala begins)
at the 1.5/7 point.
-UVR.
-UVR.
Arun Iyengar
A couple I have learnt ekadantam bhaje (Dikhsitar, Bilahari) and Shankari
ninne (Thyagaraja, Kamavardhini) don't fall into that category. People
familiar with Shyama Shastri kritis can state lot more examples. He is
deemed an exponent in this taala. He also created a variation to the misra
chaapu (4+3 as opposed to 3+4).
UVR
>
>>As long as we are in RMI*Carnatic* land :), observe that few
>>kritis/kiirtanas set to misra chaapu taalam have the eDuppu
>>at the samam. Infact, everything I can recall right now has
>>an anaagatha eDuppu (the song starts after the taala begins)
>>at the 1.5/7 point.
>
> A couple I have learnt ekadantam bhaje (Dikhsitar, Bilahari) and Shankari
> ninne (Thyagaraja, Kamavardhini) don't fall into that category. People
> familiar with Shyama Shastri kritis can state lot more examples. He is
> deemed an exponent in this taala. He also created a variation to the misra
> chaapu (4+3 as opposed to 3+4).
You're right! Shyama Shastri's bhairavi-misra chaapu swarajati
'kaamaakshi' does have a sama-eDuppu. As you say, there are
probably more.
-UVR.
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
"Arun Iyengar" <arun_iy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b5a4tb$2...@netnews.proxy.lucent.com...
> "UVR" <u...@usa.net> wrote in message
> news:v7bsm6s...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> <snipped>
>
> > Good that you mentioned tevRaa, Tanhaa-ji. In a recent
> > episode of ZeeTV's SaReGaMaPa, Jagjit Singh, appearing
> > as judge along with Abida Parveen, asked one of the
> > female contestants if she knew the taal to which 'aap
> > kii nazaro.n ne samajhaa' is set. When the girl replied
> > 'tevRa', JS gave her a smirky smile and said 'it's roopak,
> > isn't it?', giving the general impression that this is a
> > 'you say tomahto, I say tomaeto' situation.
> >
> > -UVR.
I don't know which thread UVR's original post is attached to so I'm replying
here. I agree with your assessment, UVR, and while JS' behavior seems
self-consistent, I don't know what possessed the girl to come up with Tevra,
especially given the light use of percussion in this song (no clear "theka"
except that the meter is seven beats, maybe a 3-2-2 split).
Sanjeev
Pradeep
> > It is amazing how we hum with ease, songs set to this taal with an odd
> > number of beats. A few examples come to my mind:
> >
> > From HFM:
> >
> > 1. Hai Isi Me Pyar ki Aabroo (MM)
> > A song with lead music that, in my opinion, is the most difficult
> > ever in HFM, in terms of rhythm; I still can't get my head around it.
> >
> > 2. Aap Ki Nazaron Ne Samjha (MM) **
> > 3. Apni To Har Aah Ik Toofan Hai (SDB)**
> > 4. Mere Dil Se Aa Ke Lipat Gayi (MM) **
> > 5. Aapki Baate Kare Ya (MM)
> > 6. O Basanti Pawan Paagal (SJ)
> >
>
> I am zero in classical knowledge. However, from your list I would
> imagine this beautiful duet from Halaaku belongs to the same taal. Am
> I wrong?
>
> - aajaa ke intezaar me.n jaane ko hai bahaar bhi (Rafi/Lata)
>
> I am a fan of Rafi's voice of this age. Are the following songs also
> based on Roopak taal?
>
> - mere mahabuub tujhe merii muhabbat kii qasam
This is Daadra
> - aa.nsuu.n bharii hai ye jiivan kii raahe.n
This is Jhaptaal
> - koii saaGar dil ko bahalaataa nahii.n
> - aapke pahaluu me.n aakar ro diye
>
Both Daadra
Just to elaborate on Daadra in this context:
This is a six beat taal (3+3).Abdul Karim, a well known percussionist
from HFM of Golden Days, played some beautiful Daadra for Naushad, in
several songs:
-Baquas Pe Karam Kijiye
-Do Sitaron Ka Zaminpar
-Yaad Mein Teri Raat Jaagte Hum
-Ai Husn Jaraaa Jaag Tujhe
> <snip>
>
> > Marathi songs:
> >
> > 1. Shukra Taata Mand Waara
>
> Shouldn't this be "shukra taaraa mand waaraa" (Shrinivas KhaLe). A
> lovely song.
Right; thanks for the correction.
.....Pradeep
>
> <snip>
Pradeep
> nanhaf...@yahoo.co.in (Surma Bhopali) wrote in message news:<622ae881.03031...@posting.google.com>...
> > pras...@netvigator.com (Pradeep) wrote in message news:<e512a42b.03031...@posting.google.com>...
> > > It is amazing how we hum with ease, songs set to this taal with an odd
<<snip>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dosto,
>
> Here are some of my comments on songs discussed in this thread.
>
> 1. Pradep bhai, the bol of Tevra are as follos:
>
> version 1: dhin, dha, tin, ti-re, ki-te, ga-di, gi-ne.
> version 2: dhin, ti-re-ki-te, dhin, na, ti-re-ki-te, tin, na.
>
> I have taken these from my tabla software.
>
> The orign of this taal is the Pakhawaj. so we can say that Tevra is
> the 7 beat theka of Pakhawaj just like Roopak is the 7 beat theka of
> the Tabla.
Thanks, Tanhaa.
>
>
> 2. The following two songs are in 7 beat theka but definitely not
> Roopak.
>
> 1. Isharoo-n Isharoo-n mayin dil lene waale
> 2. Gum diye mustakil , kitan naazuk hai dil
>
> I find it impossible to sing them in Roopak as played my my tabla
> Software or the tabla HW machine. So I asked my friend, an
> accomplished Tabla player, to play for me, every thing was absolutely
> perfect. He tells me that the name of the taal is "chachar" and its 7
> beat theka.
>
> But now I have a problem. My tabla HW machine has "chachar" as one
> of the thekas labled on one of the buttons, and its a 16 beat theka.
> So now Im not sure what is "chachar" My Tabla Software has no theka
> called "chachcar" listed as one of the pre programmed thekas.
>
> So all I can say is that these two songs are in 7 beat theka , but not
> Roopak. What is name , is still to be determined!!!!
>
Please read my reply to Ritu, where I elaborated on this theka.
Briefly, it is a 14 beat theka, whose name I don't know. I won't call
it a taal, per se.
<<snip>>
> Tanhaa
>
> -----------------------------------------------
.....Pradeep