Rafi
Monti
particular song which the audience always requested him to sing. He used to
say that it was the most demanding song he ever sang in his entire career,
and it literally hurt his vocal chords singing it. I think I know the song
but I am not 100% sure. I don't want to mention it,at least until there is
some response.Lets see what you can make of it!!??
Sincerely
Monti
Narendra Joshi
from Brahmachari ?
- Narendra
U.V. Ravindra
> Was it
> "Dil ke zarokheme tuzko bithakar, yaadonko teri main dulhan banakar"
> from Brahmachari ?
I'm almost certain this isn't the song. For one, it isn't
even *close* to being Rafi's most vocally demanding song.
Besides, I hardly think audiences would have "always requested"
Rafi to sing this (hideous) song.
That one criterion alone (audience always requested him) would
point towards "o duniya ke rakhwaale", don't you think?
> Monti wrote:
>
>> When M. Rafi used to do concerts in India, he used to dread singing
>> a particular song which the audience always requested him to sing.
>> He used to say that it was the most demanding song he ever sang in
>> his entire career,and it literally hurt his vocal chords singing it.
I'm not sure the veracity of these statements is verifiable. I
certainly doubt Rafi would have made them himself.
Ravindra.
>> I think I know the song but I am not 100% sure. I don't want to
>> mention it,at least until there is some response.Lets see what you
>> can make of it!!??
>> Sincerely
>> Monti
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
sanj...@my-deja.com
U.V. Ravindra <u...@usa.net> wrote:
> Narendra Joshi <nar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Was it
> > "Dil ke zarokheme tuzko bithakar, yaadonko teri main dulhan banakar"
> > from Brahmachari ?
>
> I'm almost certain this isn't the song. For one, it isn't
> even *close* to being Rafi's most vocally demanding song.
> Besides, I hardly think audiences would have "always requested"
> Rafi to sing this (hideous) song.
>
> That one criterion alone (audience always requested him) would
> point towards "o duniya ke rakhwaale", don't you think?
>
> > Monti wrote:
> >
> >> When M. Rafi used to do concerts in India, he used to dread singing
> >> a particular song which the audience always requested him to sing.
> >> He used to say that it was the most demanding song he ever sang in
> >> his entire career,and it literally hurt his vocal chords singing
it.
>
> I'm not sure the veracity of these statements is verifiable. I
> certainly doubt Rafi would have made them himself.
Well, Naushad (in "The Last Journey Of Mohd. Rafi") did mention that an
unconfirmed rumor went around that Rafi's throat bled after
"Rakhwaale". Then again, he spouted a lot of other JUNK on that CD as
well. This song is high alright, but not so bad that Rafi's throat
should have bled...
Does anyone know if something like this happened to Mahendra Kapoor
after "Chaand Chhupa Aur Taare Doobe" (not the "everyone requesting"
part, the "vocal chords hurting" part)?
Sanjeev
Kalyan
sanj...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> Well, Naushad (in "The Last Journey Of Mohd. Rafi") did mention that
an
> unconfirmed rumor went around that Rafi's throat bled after
> "Rakhwaale". Then again, he spouted a lot of other JUNK on that CD as
> well. This song is high alright, but not so bad that Rafi's throat
> should have bled...
A friend of mine told me a spiced up (and more dramatic) version of
this rumor. It goes as follows -
Rafi's throat started bleeding towards the end of the song prompting
the people at the recording studio to shout "Roko!" - which got into
the recording. Since this song was difficult to sing, Rafi didn't
attempt it again and so the soundtrack had to make do with the "Roko"
version :)
IMO, more interesting than all the errors in the above rumor is the
fact that it was told to me (a south Indian) by a (Christian) friend
of mine talking about a Hindi bhajan, composed and sung by Muslims, and
describing an incident that never occured!
As the Govinda song goes - "It happens only in India".
Cheers,
Kalyan
naniwadekar
sanj...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Well, Naushad (in "The Last Journey Of Mohd. Rafi") did mention that
> an unconfirmed rumor went around that Rafi's throat bled after
> "Rakhwaale". Then again, he spouted a lot of other JUNK on that CD as
> well. This song is high alright, but not so bad that Rafi's throat
> should have bled...
>
this "Rafi's throat bled" or suchlike claims. When an award comes
to be instituted bearing Banditji's name, we need look no
further for the first recipient of the award.
Naushad also claims that he taught Lata urdu pronunciation. Lata
rejects this claim and says she had hired an instructor to
learn urdu pronuniation. Goodness knows whether she had really
done it or this was just a debating point.
Naushad Mian also claimed that tears were streaming down Lata's
face as she recorded "mohe bhool gaye saavariya.n". Lata remembers
no such thing. She says she may have had sinus trouble that day.
And she may have blown her nose or wiped her eye once or twice.
IF AT ALL.
A friend met Sajjad a few months before he died. Sajjad said
Saigal was so grief-stricken at having to sing for Naushad, that
he disregarded the lyrics, and wailed : ab jeeke kya karenge.
Jab naushad ke liye gaana pada, tab dil hii TuT gaya.
A more plausible claim, from a fellow not given to making tall
claims AFAIK, came from song-writer P SaavaLaaraam. He had written
the marathi song "kalp-vruksh kanyesaaThi, launiya baba gela" as
a tribute to Dinanath. PS claims that after the recording was over,
Lata shouted "Baba" and collapsed. The song is an all-time great
by Lata. And though the song makes no claims on vocal chords that
would have caused her to collapse, it could very easily have
made her very very emotional. Vasant Prabhu okayed the first take.
- nani
Ashok
>
>That one criterion alone (audience always requested him) would
>point towards "o duniya ke rakhwaale", don't you think?
>
And after hearing Rafi's live version of that song,
the perennial audience request to Rafi would have
been to not sing "o duniyaa ke rakhavaale"!
Ashok
Vishal Ailawadhi
> Well, Naushad (in "The Last Journey Of Mohd. Rafi") did mention that an
> unconfirmed rumor went around that Rafi's throat bled after
> "Rakhwaale". Then again, he spouted a lot of other JUNK on that CD as
> well. This song is high alright, but not so bad that Rafi's throat
> should have bled...
>
>
>
But on that same album, I think Naushad says that they went and rerecorded
the song later, which is the version put on the album. And, I think Rafi
actually even sings the Taar Pancham at the end of the song, further than
the MAdhyam in the original recording. I'll check to see if the pitches are
the same (Safed Ek???). But, I doubted the whole bleeding incident when I
heard it.
Vishal
Monti
never witnessed this situation personally, but a senior relative of mine had
been to a concert where it did occur, people didn't request him to sing this
song because it was a hit, only because it had become public that Rafi used
to sweat and struggle to sing it, and they probably thought it was clever of
them to demand this song and get their money's worth!! I can't swear by it,
but it did come from a reliable source???! As I do a bit of singing myself,
I always find the song :-
Too Ganga ki mouj mai Jumna ka dhara...... more daunting than anything else.
Sincerely
Monti
"Monti" <m.k...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:mBfO5.58847$mv2.2...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> When M. Rafi used to do concerts in India, he used to dread singing a
> particular song which the audience always requested him to sing. He used
to
> say that it was the most demanding song he ever sang in his entire career,
> and it literally hurt his vocal chords singing it. I think I know the song
Vishal Ailawadhi
> it would be interesting to find out which version was in the
> movie and which on the released disc.
>
Actually, according to Naushad, the Madhyam was the original recording, and
released in the movie. Granted, at the time, there were probably multiple
recordings of any given song, as there was no redubbing. But, after the
fact, Naushad had Rafi rerecord the song and this was released on the album.
The original recording from BAiju Bawra did, in fact, only touch the
Madhyam.
>
> I'm not sure it was "safed 1". It's probably "kaali 2", or
> "safed 2" (but that's easily verified).
I'm not sure. Kali 2 is pretty high. For some reason, I've got Safed 1
written down. I'll check it when I get home.
Vishal
Vishal Ailawadhi
pretty good. The tempo was a little slower, but he does a nice alaap section
for the last verse. The 2 volume set might be out of print.
Vishal
>
> Your comment suggests that you have heard a(t least one)
> live rendition of this song. Can you tell me if (and where)
> I can get a copy of a recording from a live rendition?
>
> OTOH, if you're merely making a (baseless) conjecture ...
>
> --
> UVR.
Abhishek Ranjan
>live rendition of this song. Can you tell me if (and where)
>I can get a copy of a recording from a live rendition?
>
>OTOH, if you're merely making a (baseless) conjecture ...
There was a Lata-Rafi show in 1976 (I might be wrong by a
year or two) in Lucknow. He sang this song there. I wasn't
around there at that time :) but my uncle used to have a
record/LP of that show which contained this song.
---- Abhi.
U.V. Ravindra
Your comment suggests that you have heard a(t least one)
live rendition of this song. Can you tell me if (and where)
I can get a copy of a recording from a live rendition?
OTOH, if you're merely making a (baseless) conjecture ...
--
U.V. Ravindra
> >
> But on that same album, I think Naushad says that they went and
> rerecorded the song later, which is the version put on the album.
> And, I think Rafi actually even sings the Taar Pancham at the end
> of the song, further than the MAdhyam in the original recording.
I have heard both the versions of the song you allude to, and
it would be interesting to find out which version was in the
movie and which on the released disc.
If I were to hazard a guess, I would say that the version that
was recorded first would have been the one where Rafi touches
the higher 'pa' (he actually stays on it for a bit, but I don't
know if any mike tricks were involved in that). I mean, it's
hard to imagine he would have gone back and sung a taar 'pa'
if his throat really bled with the 'ma'-only version.
Then again, if his throat didn't really bleed, he could have
first sung the 'ma'-only version, and that could have imparted
the necessary robustness to his voice to successfully negotiate
the 'pa' version.
> I'll check to see if the pitches are the same (Safed Ek???).
> But, I doubted the whole bleeding incident when I heard it.
I'm not sure it was "safed 1". It's probably "kaali 2", or
"safed 2" (but that's easily verified).
Or is it? :)
Ravindra.
SKalra902
>Your comment suggests that you have heard a(t least one)
>live rendition of this song. Can you tell me if (and where)
>I can get a copy of a recording from a live rendition?
>
>OTOH, if you're merely making a (baseless) conjecture ...
>
>--
>UVR.
Hi UVR:
Yes, there is a video I have of Rafi's songs (from live concerts) which
contains this song as well. And Ashok is right - in this particualr video (and
I think Ashok is referring to that video version), the live version of "O
duniya ke rakhwaale" is definitely not what Rafi was capable of - even during
his last years.
Another song of Rafi that was very popular in those days and also was very
taxing to the vocal chords was "Tuune mera yaar naa milaaya main kya jaanun
teri ye khudaayii" from Shama Parwana. Towards the end, Rafi's voice audibly
cracks a shade, though does not lose the 'sur'! I haven't seen any live
recorded version of that song. But I am one of those lucky ones who have heard
this song live from someone else, and that too without his voice cracking at
the climax!
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Zumzum100
Nigham recorded it exactly like Rafi recently.Strangely though,when Sonu sings
Rafi's old songs,he sounds like Rafi but he is totally different when he sings
his own songs.There he sings like Kumar Sonu.
haris...@my-deja.com
"Monti" <m.k...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> I give in, most of you are right , it was " Dunia ke' rakhwalle' "
As I do a bit of singing myself,
> I always find the song :-
> Too Ganga ki mouj mai Jumna ka dhara...... more daunting than
anything else.
> Sincerely
> Monti
>
Naushad's songs are more demanding than any other MD's. To be more
precise, more of N's songs would feature in a list of vocally demanding
songs. This is mainly because these songs really go high up. Example:
Aye Mohabbat Zindabad (Mughal-e-Azam) and Meri Kahani bhoolne wale
(Deedar). Another song that can be taxing (but because of its length)
is Mere Mehboob (title song). There are six(!!) stanzas in the song.
The version on the album is different and has only 5 stanzas (the first
one is missing). Also, there is no much breating time within the
stanzas of this song. Can we think of any other long solo songs? One
more I can think of is Mahendra Kapoor's first song Chand Chhupa aur
tare doobe from Sohni Mahiwal. No coincidence that this is a Naushad
number as well!
Harish Kini
sanj...@my-deja.com
"Vishal Ailawadhi" <vis...@ucla.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
>
> But on that same album, I think Naushad says that they went and
rerecorded
> the song later, which is the version put on the album. And, I think
Rafi
> actually even sings the Taar Pancham at the end of the song, further
than
pitches are
> the same (Safed Ek???). But, I doubted the whole bleeding incident
when I
> heard it.
No, the pitches are not the same...The original is between Safed
Teen/Safed Chaar, the later recording is in Safed Do. As I had written
in my review of this album, Naushad's claim that Rafi sang higher in
this re-recorded version is a fraudulent one (despite Rafi's touching
the Pancham as you correctly claim).
--
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
sanj...@my-deja.com
While "O Duniya Ke Rakhwale" is not the HARDEST to sing, it is not an
EASY song either. Just because Sonu recorded it doesn't make it an easy
song - don't underestimate his talent and intelligence. However, get
one thing straight - Sonu Nigam does not sound exactly like Rafi...you
need to listen more carefully.
In his early songs he did not do the Kumar Sanu thing...he has only
recently thrown that in, though I don't know why. In "Refugee", he has
only thrown the Sanu voice in for "Panchhi Nadiya Pavan Ke
Jhonke"...the other songs ("Aisa Lagta Hai",
"Taal Pe Jab", and "Mere Hamsafar") he sings "like himself". Is he
singing for more than one character?
vijay...@my-deja.com
haris...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Naushad's songs are more demanding than any other MD's. To be more
> precise, more of N's songs would feature in a list of vocally
> demanding songs. This is mainly because these songs really go high
> up. Example: Aye Mohabbat Zindabad (Mughal-e-Azam) and Meri Kahani
> bhoolne wale (Deedar). Another song that can be taxing (but because
> of its length) is Mere Mehboob (title song). There are six(!!)
> stanzas in the song. The version on the album is different and has
> only 5 stanzas (the first one is missing). Also, there is no much
> breating time within the stanzas of this song. Can we think of any
> other long solo songs? One more I can think of is Mahendra Kapoor's
> first song Chand Chhupa aur tare doobe from Sohni Mahiwal. No
> coincidence that this is a Naushad number as well!
>
> Harish Kini
>
singing capabilities, these present a formidable challenge in holding
my breath long enough. Perhaps Manna De breaks it cleverly and
imperceptibly, but I can rarely manage it properly, if ever.
The first is the "oy oy oy~" part preceding "ai merii zohraa jabii.n"
(Ravi, Waqt) and the second is the introduction of Manna De in "nain
mile chain kahaa.N" (Shankar-Jaikishan, Basant Bahar). To add a SJ
composition to a list of challenging songs may be somewhat heretical,
but...I stick by it. Manna De sings "aa~" which cascades down several
notes and octaves (Am I getting that right?) and immediately swoops
into the stanza "chup chup rah ke" The probable secret behind that was
revealed one day when I saw this song on video...Immediately after
the "aa~" part, there is a break for dialogue
Nimmi : tum ne apanii aavaa paa lii gopaal! haay mai.n aaj devii
maa.N se kuchh aur bhii maa.Ng letii. gaa_o gopaal gaa_o, apane nav
jiivan kii basant bahaar gaao" (or something close).
Then, Manna De resumes. Even with this break, it is pretty tough to
sing, without it, I have NEVER managed it.
OTOH, what is sooo difficult about merii kahaanii bhuulane vaale? With a
little effort, even I can manage it. And muhabbat zindabad is only
shouting at the top of one's voice. I am not so familiar with the song
to claim to know all its nuances but someone (Sanjeev?) should be able
to confirm that it is not so tortuous after all.
Vijay
Vishal Ailawadhi
Actually, Sanjeev, I have another question. You said that he sang the first
recording in Safed 3/4. I thought the song was in Darbari. If so, then
singing in Safed 3 would make the upper Madhyam Taar Saptak's Safed 6 (Komal
Dha from Kali 1). That's pretty high. Just a thought. I would have guessed
that the Safed 3/4 would have been the Madhyam. I might be wrong. I've got
to hear it again to be sure.
Vishal
>
> No, the pitches are not the same...The original is between Safed
> Teen/Safed Chaar, the later recording is in Safed Do. As I had written
> in my review of this album, Naushad's claim that Rafi sang higher in
> this re-recorded version is a fraudulent one (despite Rafi's touching
> the Pancham as you correctly claim).
>
> --
> Sanjeev Ramabhadran
>
>
Vishal Ailawadhi
> singing capabilities, these present a formidable challenge in holding
> my breath long enough. Perhaps Manna De breaks it cleverly and
> imperceptibly, but I can rarely manage it properly, if ever.
>
No, he doesn't break Zohra Jabeen or Nain Mile Chain Kahan. Both are pretty
easy to sing with some breath practice. As for Nain Mile Chain Kahan, it's
probable that the two pieces in the recording were done at two different
takes in the studio, as they were separate in the movie.
Vishal
Vishal Ailawadhi
> recently thrown that in, though I don't know why. In "Refugee", he has
> only thrown the Sanu voice in for "Panchhi Nadiya Pavan Ke
> Jhonke"...the other songs ("Aisa Lagta Hai",
> "Taal Pe Jab", and "Mere Hamsafar") he sings "like himself". Is he
> singing for more than one character?
>
Acording to Kumar Sanu, he had sung the song originally. Sonu was called to
redub, and was told to sing in Kumar Sanu's voice.
Vishal
sanj...@my-deja.com
"Vishal Ailawadhi" <vis...@ucla.edu> wrote:
> Got it. Thanks.
>
> Actually, Sanjeev, I have another question. You said that he sang the
first
> recording in Safed 3/4. I thought the song was in Darbari. If so, then
> singing in Safed 3 would make the upper Madhyam Taar Saptak's Safed 6
(Komal
> Dha from Kali 1). That's pretty high.
Yes, this is correct; Sa = S3/4, Ma = S6/K5. Rafi was capable of
reaching this and even a bit higher (though he was sometimes
unnecessarily put up there).
For all the things he was, Rafi was NOT a "kaali ek" singer. His
natural pitch would have been closer to "kaali do".
--
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
hn...@my-deja.com
Vishal Ailawadhi
>
> Why was the song redubbed?
>
> Hema.
>
Not sure. Usually it has to do with the politics of selling records. These
days, it's not only up to the Music Directors to pick singers. The
Directors, Producers, and even Music Distribution Companies have a say. And,
it's not uncommon for songs to be redubbed...even if they are sung well the
first time around.
Vishal
Vishal Ailawadhi
Vishal
vulca...@mailandnews.com
>
> You're right. It's Safed 3 - ish. Just checked.
>
i am at a loss to comprehend what this kaala safed thing is.
pl share something for likes of me without music training.
regards
-rawat
SKalra902
...snipped...
>
>The first is the "oy oy oy~" part preceding "ai merii zohraa jabii.n"
>(Ravi, Waqt) and the second is the introduction of Manna De in "nain
>mile chain kahaa.N" (Shankar-Jaikishan, Basant Bahar). To add a SJ
>composition to a list of challenging songs may be somewhat heretical,
>but...I stick by it. Manna De sings "aa~" which cascades down several
>notes and octaves (Am I getting that right?) and immediately swoops
>into the stanza "chup chup rah ke" The probable secret behind that was
>revealed one day when I saw this song on video...Immediately after
>the "aa~" part, there is a break for dialogue
> Nimmi : tum ne apanii aavaa paa lii gopaal! haay mai.n aaj devii
> maa.N se kuchh aur bhii maa.Ng letii. gaa_o gopaal gaa_o, apane nav
> jiivan kii basant bahaar gaao" (or something close).
>Then, Manna De resumes. Even with this break, it is pretty tough to
>sing, without it, I have NEVER managed it.
>
Well, the recording of the song (for the then prevalent 78 rpm records) was not
done separately from the recording for the film, i.e, the 78 rpm recording was
produced by editing out the soundtrack. The original master soundtrack had
three stanzas in the song. In the film, only two were retained - the first 78
rpm releases all had three stanzas, but the music interludes were edited short.
In the film, the dialogue between Nimmi and Bharat Bhushan were added within
the song, but it does not mean that they were recorded while the song was being
recorded. Besides, the film editing technology available even in those days
allowed this kind of mixing.
Later, in the early or mid-60's when the LP of Basant Bahar was produced, the
original master tape was probably nowhere to be found, and the LP contained the
exact sound track from the film (I am basing that on the fact that the third
stanza is not there either in fthe film or the LP/CD).
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
naniwadekar
skal...@aol.com (SKalra902) wrote:
< About the "nain mile chain kaha.n" duet from Basant Bhara ... >
>
> Well, the recording of the song (for the then prevalent 78 rpm
records) was not
> done separately from the recording for the film, i.e, the 78 rpm
recording was
> produced by editing out the soundtrack. The original master
soundtrack had
> three stanzas in the song. In the film, only two were retained - the
first 78
> rpm releases all had three stanzas, but the music interludes were
edited short.
>
produced, the
> original master tape was probably nowhere to be found, and the LP
contained the
> exact sound track from the film (I am basing that on the fact that
the third
> stanza is not there either in fthe film or the LP/CD).
>
>
Though the original master tape could have gone missing, I am
sure the original 78 rpm record, which contained all 3 stanzas,
as you say, must have been available.
And they could have used it for the LP . Either they were lazy.
Or they simply wanted to reproduce the film version on LP.
Or only 2 stanzas could fit on LP. Or LP was recorded by people
who were plain ignorant, and did not know that the third stanza
existed. I have heard many complaints about the way these
LP releases were handled. The availaibility of the original master
tape or its lack probably did not have much to do with the fact
that there were only 2 stanzas on LP. Just a guess.
By the way, Kalraji, do you have the 3 stanza version of this
Basant Bahar song with you?
- nani
SKalra902
..snipped...
>Though the original master tape could have gone missing, I am
>sure the original 78 rpm record, which contained all 3 stanzas,
>as you say, must have been available.
>
Sure, but were they still in HMV's library? If not, then they would have had
to 'borrow' them from some collector (like Mr. Vinod Sonthalia). My guess is,
even if they had not canceled the 78 rpm recordings of this song and had it
(the 78 rpm record) in their library, it was probably easier and more
convenient for them to just record the entire LP from the available soundtrack.
>Or only 2 stanzas could fit on LP.
No, I don't think so, The reason I say that is that an LP can take in roughly
between 45 and 50 minutes of recording. And including the third stanza
wouldn't have added more than about 1.5 minutes to the 43 or 44 minutes on that
LP.
>Or LP was recorded by people
>who were plain ignorant, and did not know that the third stanza
>existed
Now that is possible.
Another song from the film that has a slight difference between the film (and
LP/CD) version and the 78 rpm recording is the Rafi song, "badi der
bhayee...kab loge khabar more raam..". In the widely available LP/CD version,
, the words "chalte chalte mere pag haare, aayee jiivan kii shaam" can be heard
just before the end of the song. In the 78 rpm version, however, these words
were there as part of the mukhada as well, right in the beginning of the song.
>
>By the way, Kalraji, do you have the 3 stanza version of this
>Basant Bahar song with you?
>
I will have to check. My gut feeling is I don't. But I think I have a 45 rpm
4-songs record of B. Bahaar, and if this song is on that EP, I can say (with
99.99% surety) that it would have the 3 stanzas. Why the 99.99% probability?
Because most of the times, HMV made those 45 rpm EPs from the 78 rpm reocrds!
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Vishal Ailawadhi
keys are grouped in 2's and 3's. IF you find a group of two, the white key
just to the left of that is known as Safed 1. The first black of the two is
Kali 1. Then, if you count the black keys up, you'll get Kali 1-5. IF you
follow the white up, you'll get Safed 1-7. Then, the octave just repeats
itself.
The significance is just to denote which note is used as the Sa, or the
tonic.
Vishal
<vulca...@mailandnews.com> wrote in message
news:3A0C3C44...@mailandnews.com...
Ashok
>
>
>Well, the recording of the song (for the then prevalent 78 rpm records) was not
>done separately from the recording for the film, i.e, the 78 rpm recording was
>produced by editing out the soundtrack.
>Satish Kalra
That is contrary to what I read in Harish Bhimani's book on Lata.
Those days, a singer's contract with the producer included two
recording sessions, one for the film soundtrack and one for the
audio release. I suppose they could happen back to back, but
often the two happened at widely separated points in time.
Check out the two version of the 'Parchhai' song of Lata:
. nainaa.n milaa ke .... paradesii saiyaa.n
Many subtle and not-so-subtle differences show up:
* The opening lines are slightly different. One version
continues as
nainaa.n milaa ke
dukh de gayo sukh le gayo
and the other goes
nainaa.n milaa ke
sukh le gayo dukh de gayo
* The orchestration between stanzas is strikingly
different.
* The last stanza has the return-rhyme line:
chuTakii bajaa ke ..
In the film version, just before the word "chuTakii"
there is an actual sound of a "chuTakii"! The audio
verion doesn't have it.
At least the first two differences could not have
been produced by different editings of one master.
Ashok
SKalra902
Yes, Ashok, you are right too. But the practice of two separate recordings of
a song (sometimes widely apart in time) ended in the mid-fifties. Between
1953-54 to 1955-56, some songs were recorded only once, and the 78 rpm records
procued from that same recording by editing the song out to fit the time
constraint. As an example, while some Shikast songs were recorded only once,
'kaare badra tuu na jaa na jaa' was definitely recorded separately. From
memory, the last song that I remember having been recorded twice and separately
was the 'Raj Hath' duet "yeh wada karo chaand ke saamne". So what if this also
is a Shankar Jaikishan song! :-)) Listen to its film version and the 78 rpm
version, they are instantly and discernably different.
As far as the Parchhain song you have given as an example above, I think all
its songs were recorded twice, separately, as were practically all the songs
from films in that era. Take Anand Math, Aaraam, Tarana, Saiyyan, Nirala,
etc., as quick examples. For Nirala, you"ll find that in one of its most
popular two songs, "mehfil mein jal uthi shama" and "aisi muhabbat se hum baaz
aaye", even the order of the two stanzas was reverse to that on the 78 rpm
records. Which of the two was it - I think "mehfil mein jal uthi shama". But
I"ll have to dig out its audio made from the video to be sure.
Anarkali (1953) had quite a few of its songs recorded separately - if not all -
certainly the 'yeh zindagi usi ki hai' (both the happy and sad versions), 'dua
kar ghame dil', 'aaja ab to aaja meri qismat ke khariidaar', ' muhabbat aisi
dhadkan hai'. The title song of Uran Khatola (1954), "mera salaam le jaa" was
done separately, but not "sitaaron ki mehfil saji tum na aaye".
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
sud...@my-deja.com
After his superb rendering of ' O Duniya Ke Rakhwale' (1952), many
MDs composed songs to use Rafi's exceptional capabilities. Some of the
songs which I have in my collection (in addition to those mentioned
earlier in this forum) are:
1 Papi / S. Mohinder (1952) / Tera Kaam Hai Jalna Parwane
2 Adl-e-Jahangir / Husnlal Bhagatram (1955) / Apna Hi Ghar Lutane /
the first two opening lines: Dekho Jaata Hai Koi Gham Ka Sahara Le Kar
.
3 Shirin Farhad / S. Mohinder (1956) / Hazaron Rang Badlega Zamana /
the first two opening lines: Na Hanso Pyar Pe Nadan Zamane Walo
4 Shola Aur Shanbam / Khayyam (1961) / Jane Kya Dhoondti Rahti Hain /
the last paragraph
Any there are many many more.
P.S.: I heard Rafi Saheb in a live concert (around 1964 or so). If I
remember it correctly, he didn't sing: ' O Duniya Ke Rakhwale'. He
fullfilled almost all other requests, including songs, which were not
sung by him. He sang a Punjabi / Non-Film song: Jugni ....
Jugni Fashion Di matwali (which was recently recorded, at that time
by Hazara Singh 'Ramta' and was quiite popular).
Sudhir9
Harish Kini
> But the practice of two separate recordings of a song (sometimes
widely apart in time) ended in the mid-fifties.
>
> Satish Kalra
>
Mere Mehboob (1963) definitely had a few songs recorded separately. Is
it one of the last films (separate recordings)?
Pyar huva ikraar huva (Shree420) was also recorded twice. But the first
stanza in both the version is different! What could be the plausible
reason for this?
Harish Kini
Arun Sampath
recordings of
> a song (sometimes widely apart in time) ended in the mid-fifties.
Just shooting off the hip here but is it possible that this practice could
have continued to the early 60s albeit in a very few movies? One example is
"Lagja gale" from "Woh kaun thi". The movie version of the song is
substantially different from the regular audio version. I haven't heard the
movie version anywhere on the audio. Whenever Lata has sung that song live,
she has used the audio version. All the copycat singers from T-series also
have used the audio version. My question is, are there really 2 versions of
the song or is it just another one of those sickening HMV habits of
haphazardly editing the song for some unknown reason?
A
SKalra902
>
>Mere Mehboob (1963) definitely had a few songs recorded separately. Is
>it one of the last films (separate recordings)?
>
Like I have always maintained, to each his/her own. But in this case, I am
going to reitereate that the Mere Mehboob songs were not recorded twice,
separately. The different versions exist because the songs on the 78 rpm
records were made from editing out the original film sountrack. And if, as
some claim, the Rafi version of the tandem song "mere mehboob tujhe.." contains
more stanzas in the film than on the LP/CD, then I would venture to say that
they (HMV) snipped a stanza (or two) when the LP was released.
>Pyar huva ikraar huva (Shree420) was also recorded twice. But the first
>stanza in both the version is different! What could be the plausible
>reason for this?
This one I can agree on having been recorded twice. The sounds of violins and
other instruments in the song that reproduce the feeling of the rain clouds
rushing across the sky can be heard only in the film's soundtrack, and on the
LPs of Sri 420 that were released in the late 70's.
On the 78 rpm records released in 1955 these rain cloud sounds are simply not
there, leading me to believe that the song may have been recorded separately
for the film and the 78 rpm records.
The reason for the first stanza being different in the two versions may simply
be that the stanza "dil yeh kahe iss maang ko main taaron se sanwaar duun, tum
se naya sansaar luun tum ko naya sansaar duun.." was chopped off from the film
due to the objections from the censor board. The objectionalble line would
most likely, IMO, have been "tum se naya sansaar luun...". :-))
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Harish Kini
skal...@aol.com (SKalra902) wrote:
Harish Kini wrote:
Mere Mehboob (1963) definitely had a few songs recorded separately. Is
it one of the last films (separate recordings)?
Kalraji replies:
Like I have always maintained, to each his/her own. But in this
case, I am going to reitereate that the Mere Mehboob songs were not
recorded twice,separately. The different versions exist because the
songs on the 78 rpm records were made from editing out the original
film sountrack. And if, as some claim, the Rafi version of the tandem
song "mere mehboob tujhe.." contains more stanzas in the film than on
the LP/CD, then I would venture to say that they (HMV) snipped a stanza
(or two) when the LP was released.
Harish replies.
I am 100% sure that the title song of Mere Mehboob was recorded twice
and that the shorter version is not an abridged version of the longer
version.
Though I can't point out the variations right now, I can do so in the
the other Rafi solo (given below). Mere Mehboob is a film which visits
the Indian satellite TV channels at least once a month. I'll wait for
it to understand the subtle differences in the 2 versions.
Consider the song:(A beautiful number)
Aye husn zara jaag tujhe ishq jagaye
badle meri taqdeer jo tu hosh mein aye
The tune of "tu hosh mein aye " is different in the two versions.
My memory also reminds me that tumse izhar-e-haal kar baithe is also
recorded twice.
That is an intelligent deduction!(Harish Kini)
>
> Happy listenings.
>
> Satish Kalra
Ashok
>
>Like I have always maintained, to each his/her own.
So, Satish-saahab is continuing to battle on valiantly to
establish that the differences in the film version and
the audio-release versions can almost always be explained
by editing technology, rather than separate recording!
Here's a song that is "almost" certainly recorded separately,
which has been a thorn in my own valiant battle for something
like the audio equivalent of FITB:.For many songs, I have been
trying to put together what I hope would be master versions:
to include all possible stanzas from all versions, chopped off
preludes and postludes, extended interludes, extra repetitions,
and so forth. It is a hopeless task with just a dual cassette
deck as the sole equipment. It is doable for some songs with
audio software.
One of the songs that resists all attempts is the Lata song
from 'Mughal-E-Azam.'
. Khudaa nigababaa.n ho tumhaaraa
The mukha.Daa and one stanza ("uThe janaazaa jo kal hamaaraa")
are common to both the film version and the audio release. The
film version has, additionally, the prelude sher "lo aayi subah
ke ..." and lovely concluding orchestration as Madhubala is led
away by the guards (I think Naushad scored it as the end music
for the film itself; it would have been a more effective film
had it ended there. But that's another thread). THe audio
release has an additional stanza, which goes something like
"hai waqt-e-ruKhasat gale lagaa lo".
I found it impossible to make a master version incorporating
everything. It is easy enough to put the disparate audio
chunks together. But the problem is: Lata sings the two
versions in two different keys! The film version it a higher
pitch. In this song, I found the higher-pitch version to be
nicer. Lata sounds strained in the audio release.
I said above that it is "almost" certainly a case of separate
recording. I used "almost" just in case Satish-ji came up with
a counter-argument: It is possible to have both versions come
out of one recording session, if the recording was done sith
multitrack (specifically, vocals available on a track by itself)
and if some rudimentary effects processing was available. Who
knows, maybe both were invented by Naushad-Asif combine! I for
one am more curious to find out how come it transpired that Lata
sang the two versions in two different keys.
Whatever the source of different versions--separate recordings
or audio editing--the audio project seems worthwhile to me. For
those songs,where it is possible to produce a master version without
cutting any corners, sonically speaking, we should do so. For other
songs, it is perhaps best to just present the different versions
back to back. What would be most helpful is for RMIMers to post
articles about songs where they can document in detail the
differences in different versions. It would be nice if nettors
give the two versions a listen and note the differences carefully,
for example, as Harish plans to do with "mere mehboob," rather than
shooting from the hip! It's a task for obsessive rasikas. But having
said that, anything is fine, really. So, let us have a series going.
I vaguely remember a post from Vish Krishnan where he seemed to
suggest that he'd come across a song with three distinct versions!
It would be fun to speculate on "how come", but let us start by
unearthing them.
Ashok
SKalra902
>
>So, Satish-saahab is continuing to battle on valiantly to
>establish that the differences in the film version and
>the audio-release versions can almost always be explained
>by editing technology, rather than separate recording!
Depending upon when the song was released, Ashok. :-))
Now we can depend upon Ashok to come up with a song, which can fit any of the
two categories. The reason I say that is that "khuda nigehbaan ho tumhaara.."
is from a film that took almost NINE years to be completed. And its songs were
most likely recorded spread over that time frame.
( Maybe Hrishi can tell us which song was recorded when.)
:))
Anyway, if one hears this song carefully, it seems very similar to the Amar
(1954) song "jaanewaale se mulaaqat na hone paayii..", both in tune and the
time frame of singing. If this Mughal-e-Aazam (1960) song seems to have two
different recorded versions, it MAY most likely be that it was recorded much
earlier for the film than its release, when two separate recordings were still
in (necessity) vogue.
>
>I vaguely remember a post from Vish Krishnan where he seemed to
>suggest that he'd come across a song with three distinct versions!
>It would be fun to speculate on "how come", but let us start by
>unearthing them.
>
>
>Ashok
Can you refresh me on that Vish post. It would be interesting to find ANOTHER
three version song, so soon after the Denver meet.
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Ashok
>
>
>Can you refresh me on that Vish post. It would be interesting to find ANOTHER
>three version song, so soon after the Denver meet.
>
Was your example written up after the RMIM meet?
If not, why not pose it here? Wasn't there some
doubt whether it was a case of three distinct
versions or whether two of the three were different
manifestations of the same version? :)
Ashok
Kanti Shah
> For Nirala, you"ll find that in one of its most
> popular two songs, "mehfil mein jal uthi shama" and "aisi muhabbat se hum
baaz
> aaye", even the order of the two stanzas was reverse to that on the 78 rpm
> records. Which of the two was it - I think "mehfil mein jal uthi shama".
But
> I"ll have to dig out its audio made from the video to be sure.
It was "aisi muhabbat se hum baaz aaye".
Also, the pronunciation of the word "tassauver" in the song in both the
versions (78 rpm and film) is different.
Incidentally, this is my most favourite Lata song. It was my proud moment
when I told her this personally at a private meeting.
Regards
Kanti Shah
sud...@my-deja.com
Yes, there is atleast one film, for which three versions were
released. (1) 78 rpms records, along with the film release
1n 1959 (2) LP - relaesed around 1962 (songs length: between 3:12
to 6:39 minutes) (3) A solo CD - released recently, on which
the 6:39 minutes song is 7:44 minutes long and is a different
recording and instrumentation.
I will leave the film name blank as a quiz. The hint is: The
Producer also owned a very well-equipped Recording Studio.
Sudhir
- - - - - - - -
> >Can you refresh me on that Vish post. It would be interesting to find ANOTHER
> >three version song, so soon after the Denver meet.
> >
> >Satish Kalra
>
> Was your example written up after the RMIM meet?
> If not, why not pose it here? Wasn't there some
> doubt whether it was a case of three distinct
> versions or whether two of the three were different
> manifestations of the same version? :)
>
> Ashok
>
>
vulca...@mailandnews.com
>
> Separate and Unequal - 3 Versions of song/s
>
> Yes, there is atleast one film, for which three versions were
> released. (1) 78 rpms records, along with the film release
> 1n 1959 (2) LP - relaesed around 1962 (songs length: between 3:12
> to 6:39 minutes) (3) A solo CD - released recently, on which
> the 6:39 minutes song is 7:44 minutes long and is a different
> recording and instrumentation.
>
for that matter, i think in rajKaps :) prem rog also, the song "ye pyar
tha ke kuchh aur tha" is different on cassette and in film.
or was it just a para missing in film.
though, nice song, alongwith lovely "ye galiyan ye chaubara" from the
same film.
-rawat
