ASHA Bhonsle's pronounciation
Ravi Krishna
From: pra...@watson.ibm.com (Pradeep Dubey)
> The only annoying part of this song is the second stanza
> when Asha clearly says 'arzoo' first time around, but 'arjoo'
> second time around. I guess I should put the balme on RMIMers
> who have sensitized me so much to such details that I land up
> spoiling such a great song for me :-)
AB inspite of being a fantastic singer does mis-pronounce occasionally. The
above example is one. Another example is from the non filmi album "Dil
Padosi Hai " (AB/RDB/Gulzar). In the song " JhootHe tere Nain .." she
pronounced Jhoothe as Jhoote. Notice the tH was mispronounced.
More to this list please.
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon
In article <4tm9mk$o...@news.informix.com> rkri...@informix.com (Ravi
Krishna) writes:
> AB inspite of being a fantastic singer does mis-pronounce
> occasionally. The above example is one. Another example is from
> the non filmi album "Dil Padosi Hai " (AB/RDB/Gulzar). In the song
> " JhootHe tere Nain .." she pronounced Jhoothe as Jhoote. Notice
> the tH was mispronounced.
Umm... the correct song lyrics are 'JooThe tere nain...' and
not 'JhooThe'. The two words are totally different in meaning and
Gulzar has used this word-play very beautifully in this song. And at
least I did not notice any mispronunciations by Asha in this song.
> More to this list please.
I would like to mention a very common one in Marathi songs. In
Marathi the word for 'dil' is (almost) correctly pronounced as
'hruday', though in Roman script one may write it as 'hriday' (a la
Rishi). Asha always pronounces it as 'hriday', which is not how it is
done in Marathi.
Ciao,
ND
\____Neeraj Deshmukh__________...@isip.msstate.edu____/
Office: ISIP, MSU, 434 Simrall, Hardy Road, MS State MS 39762
Ph: (601) 325-8335 Fax: (601) 325-3149
Home: 100 Logan Drive #D, Starkville MS 39759 Ph: (601) 323-2689
\_http://www.isip.msstate.edu/____Disc Space - The Final Frontier..._/
Kamlesh Nanavati
Ravi Krishna wrote:
> > The only annoying part of this song is the second stanza
> > when Asha clearly says 'arzoo' first time around, but 'arjoo'
> > second time around. I guess I should put the balme on RMIMers
> > who have sensitized me so much to such details that I land up
> > spoiling such a great song for me :-)
>
> AB inspite of being a fantastic singer does mis-pronounce occasionally. The
> above example is one. Another example is from the non filmi album "Dil
> Padosi Hai " (AB/RDB/Gulzar). In the song " JhootHe tere Nain .." she
> pronounced Jhoothe as Jhoote. Notice the tH was mispronounced.
>
> More to this list please.*
****************************************
HOW ABOUT KISHOREKUMAR'S PRONOUNCIATION OF URDU WORDS?
I was listening to my favorite one by KK
"Mere mehboob quamat hogi, Aaj rusava teri galiyon......."
In above song KK sings Rukhsat as "ruksat", is it right pronounciation?
Kamlesh.
Preetham Gopalaswamy
Rizwan M. Syed (riz...@sparco.com) writes :
> In <4tm9mk$o...@news.informix.com> rkri...@informix.com (Ravi Krishna)
> writes:
> >above example is one. Another example is from the non filmi album "Dil
> >Padosi Hai " (AB/RDB/Gulzar). In the song " JhootHe tere Nain .." she
> >pronounced Jhoothe as Jhoote. Notice the tH was mispronounced.
>
> about 3 months ago??
Yes it had come up before. While the song in "Lekin" (also penned by Gulzar)
is "JhooTe naina bole saaNchi baTiyaaN", the song from "Dil PaDosi Hai" is
"JooThe tere nain". Interesting difference between the lyrics.
But yes I agree, Lata's hindi pronounciations was more "saaf" than Asha's and
that is more apparent in Asha's more recent songs. For further questions on
Asha's "z" problem, I shall direct you all to Chetan Vinchhi :-) :-) :-)
okay okay, or me considering I coined the phrase.
Please please let us not convert this into a discussion about which singer had
better Urdu pronounciation since that thread just ended a few months ago. The
repeat cycles on RMIM are usually about a year :-) :-)
P
Rizwan M. Syed
In <4tm9mk$o...@news.informix.com> rkri...@informix.com (Ravi Krishna) writes:
>above example is one. Another example is from the non filmi album "Dil
>Padosi Hai " (AB/RDB/Gulzar). In the song " JhootHe tere Nain .." she
>pronounced Jhoothe as Jhoote. Notice the tH was mispronounced.
That's probably because the word IS Jhoote, didn't we go over this
about 3 months ago??
Later,
Rizwan
Rajiv Shridhar
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon (desh...@isip01.isip.msstate.edu) wrote:
: In article <4tm9mk$o...@news.informix.com> rkri...@informix.com (Ravi
: Krishna) writes:
:
: > AB inspite of being a fantastic singer does mis-pronounce
: > occasionally. The above example is one. Another example is from
: > the non filmi album "Dil Padosi Hai " (AB/RDB/Gulzar). In the song
: > " JhootHe tere Nain .." she pronounced Jhoothe as Jhoote. Notice
: > the tH was mispronounced.
: Umm... the correct song lyrics are 'JooThe tere nain...' and
: not 'JhooThe'. The two words are totally different in meaning and
: Gulzar has used this word-play very beautifully in this song. And at
: least I did not notice any mispronunciations by Asha in this song.
It IS `jhooThe tere nain', not `jooThe tere...'
jhooThe = lying, as in `mai.n jhooTh nahee.n bol rahaa hoon'
whereas
jooThe = sullied/spoilt/made un-(non-?)pristine,
as is `bhojan jooThaa kar diyaa'
As to the question of `jhooThe' vs. `jhooTe', I think U.V. Ravindra once
explained to us in detail that the former is the correct Hindi
pronounciation, whereas the latter is the correct Urdu pronounciation.
Neeraj, if Asha did sing 'jooThe tere nain', Gulzar would be implying
something like "your eyes are sullied". Which deserves another discussion. :)
: I would like to mention a very common one in Marathi songs. In
: Marathi the word for 'dil' is (almost) correctly pronounced as
: 'hruday', though in Roman script one may write it as 'hriday' (a la
: Rishi). Asha always pronounces it as 'hriday', which is not how it is
: done in Marathi.
:
: Ciao,
:
`hriday' may be wrong in Marathi songs, so Asha is guilty there. In Hindi,
the correct pronounciation IS `hriday'.
: ND
:
Rajiv
--
Rajiv Shridhar
EMail: ra...@coe.neu.edu, ra...@cdsp.neu.edu
WWW : http://www.coe.neu.edu/~rajiv/newsongs.html (Songs yet to be
added to the ITRANS SongBook)
Kuntal Shah
>>>>> "Rajiv" == Rajiv Shridhar <ra...@coe.neu.edu> writes:
Rajiv> : I would like to mention a very common one in Marathi
Rajiv> songs. In : Marathi the word for 'dil' is (almost)
Rajiv> correctly pronounced as : 'hruday', though in Roman script
Rajiv> one may write it as 'hriday' (a la : Rishi). Asha always
Rajiv> pronounces it as 'hriday', which is not how it is : done in
Rajiv> Marathi. : : Ciao, :
Rajiv> `hriday' may be wrong in Marathi songs, so Asha is guilty
Rajiv> there. In Hindi, the correct pronounciation IS `hriday'.
Ikram, this is same as the "sanskrit" issue.
--
-Kuntal.
______________________________________________________________________
| is duniya meN ji nahiN sakta aadmi seedhasaada
| is liye maiN ban gaya veeru se veerudada
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vijay Sundararajan
In article <4tm9mk$o...@news.informix.com>,
Ravi Krishna <rkri...@informix.com> wrote:
>
>From: pra...@watson.ibm.com (Pradeep Dubey)
>> The only annoying part of this song is the second stanza
>> when Asha clearly says 'arzoo' first time around, but 'arjoo'
>> second time around. I guess I should put the balme on RMIMers
>> who have sensitized me so much to such details that I land up
>> spoiling such a great song for me :-)
>
>above example is one. Another example is from the non filmi album "Dil
>Padosi Hai " (AB/RDB/Gulzar). In the song " JhootHe tere Nain .." she
>pronounced Jhoothe as Jhoote. Notice the tH was mispronounced.
>
Three cheers for RK, now he will eat up <AB ?>.
The only thing I object to in RK's later posts is that he
is suddenly sounding apolegetic about his tirades which is extremely
irritating. I would beseech him to shed this veneer of 'true modesty'
and start his fire spewing with renewed vigour.
-Vijay
All in jest all in jest
-UVR
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon
In article <4tp0b1$7...@chaos.dac.neu.edu> ra...@coe.neu.edu (Rajiv
Shridhar) writes:
> Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon (desh...@isip01.isip.msstate.edu) wrote:
> : Umm... the correct song lyrics are 'JooThe tere nain...' and
> : not 'JhooThe'. The two words are totally different in meaning and
> : Gulzar has used this word-play very beautifully in this song. And at
> : least I did not notice any mispronunciations by Asha in this song.
> It IS `jhooThe tere nain', not `jooThe tere...'
>
> jhooThe = lying, as in `mai.n jhooTh nahee.n bol rahaa hoon'
>
> whereas
>
> jooThe = sullied/spoilt/made un-(non-?)pristine,
> as is `bhojan jooThaa kar diyaa'
> Neeraj, if Asha did sing 'jooThe tere nain', Gulzar would be
> implying something like "your eyes are sullied". Which deserves
> another discussion. :)
And you got it, sir... :-) Gulzar indeed wrote "JooThe" as in
the 'bhojan' waala usage. If you listen to the following lines in the
song the meaning is clear --- "your eyes are no longer pure, as you
have looked at my 'sautan' with them". Not "your eyes are lying as
they have looked at my sautan". As I said earlier, lovely word-play...
> `hriday' may be wrong in Marathi songs, so Asha is guilty there. In
> Hindi, the correct pronounciation IS `hriday'.
Yup. I did make it clear thet I was strictly referring to
Marathi songs.
U.V. Ravindra
=> Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon (desh...@isip01.isip.msstate.edu) wrote:
=> :
=> : > AB does mis-pronounce occasionally ... example is from
=> : > the non filmi album "Dil Padosi Hai " (AB/RDB/Gulzar). In the song
=> : > " JhootHe tere Nain .." she pronounced Jhoothe as Jhoote. Notice
=> : > the tH was mispronounced.
=> :
=> : Umm... the correct song lyrics are 'JooThe tere nain...' and
=> : not 'JhooThe'. The two words are totally different in meaning and
=> : Gulzar has used this word-play very beautifully in this song. And at
=> : least I did not notice any mispronunciations by Asha in this song.
=>
=> It IS `jhooThe tere nain', not `jooThe tere...'
=> jhooThe = lying, as in `mai.n jhooTh nahee.n bol rahaa hoon'
=> whereas
=> jooThe = sullied/spoilt/made un-(non-?)pristine,
=> as is `bhojan jooThaa kar diyaa'
=>
=> As to the question of `jhooThe' vs. `jhooTe', I think U.V. Ravindra once
=> explained to us in detail that the former is the correct Hindi
=> pronounciation, whereas the latter is the correct Urdu pronounciation.
=>
=> Neeraj, if Asha did sing 'jooThe tere nain', Gulzar would be implying
=> something like "your eyes are sullied". Which deserves another discussion. :)
Rajiv, I *do* think the lyric *is* "jooTHe tere nain" as opposed to
"jhooTHe/jhooTe tere nain". I am no authority on Gulzar, but
considering that *he* is the lyricist, he could very well have used
this subtle word play ... I too hear Asha singing 'jooTHe tere nain',
and this DOES deserve discussion on RMIM. I certainly hope one or the
other of RMIMs International Gullu-DanDa team ;-) ;-) members (Ashish,
Guri, Pradeep [alphabetical order] ...) helps.
And oh, by the way, 'jooTHa/jooTHe' does NOT become 'jooTa/jooTe' in
Urdu.
=> : I would like to mention a very common one in Marathi songs. In
=> : Marathi the word for 'dil' is (almost) correctly pronounced as
=> : 'hruday', though in Roman script one may write it as 'hriday' (a la
=> : Rishi). Asha always pronounces it as 'hriday', which is not how it is
=> : done in Marathi.
=>
=> : Ciao,
=> :
=>
=> `hriday' may be wrong in Marathi songs, so Asha is guilty there. In Hindi,
=> the correct pronounciation IS `hriday'.
The word is 'hRday' ... which is pronounced as 'hruday' in Marathi and
most South Indian languages/dialects, and as 'hriday' in most North
Indian languages/dialects. The same is the case with 'Rshi' which
becomes 'rushi' or 'rishi', respectively. Read the Sanskrit
newsgroup/discussion digest for details of exact pronunciation; I am
bad at explaning that kind of a thing. All I can say is that BOTH
pronunciations are erroneous.
=> : ND
=>
=> Rajiv
--
Ravindra.
kaise chhupaaooN raaz-e-GHam, deedah-e-tar ko kyaa karooN
dil ki tapish ko kyaa karooN, soz-e-jigar ko kyaa karooN
-- Hasrat Mohani.
P.S. One thing I'd like to know from RMIM is if my attitude in
posts/follow-ups such as these appears to be excessively patronizing
or if these appear to carry an overbearing or superior air (y'know the
kind of attitude which seems to say 'I know more than you, so you
better listen to me'). This is honestly not my attitude when I post
this type of stuff, but recently I received an e-mail from an RMIM-er
which made me aware of the fact that like this person, there could be
several others who consider my attitude to be patronizing and
overbearing, especially when I write about Hindi/Urdu subtleties and
differences. Please let me know; post on RMIM or send me an e-mail.
Thanks.
UVR.
Rizwan M. Syed
>Yes it had come up before. While the song in "Lekin" (also penned by Gulzar)
>is "JhooTe naina bole saaNchi baTiyaaN", the song from "Dil PaDosi Hai" is
>"JooThe tere nain". Interesting difference between the lyrics.
So what's he trying to say? The 'nain' are 'JooTHe?? I'm assuming since
its sung by Asha, she's saying to the guy that his nain are 'JooTHe'??
What, has he been goin' to the nudie bars? or been watching Mamta's
movies?? Same difference? *grin*
>But yes I agree, Lata's hindi pronounciations was more "saaf" than Asha's and
>that is more apparent in Asha's more recent songs. For further questions on
>Asha's "z" problem, I shall direct you all to Chetan Vinchhi :-) :-) :-)
>okay okay, or me considering I coined the phrase.
I keep hearing people talk about Asha's 'z' problems... and more often
than not, they'll use the songs from 'Rangeela' as examples.. I thought
she did it intentionally, cause the chick's supposed to talk that way..
the Bombay-accent, or whatever.. I haven't seen the movie, so not sure..,
well not in its entirety anyway.... But how about her 'dil cheeZZZ
kiya hay aap meri' from Umrao Jan??? If she had a problem with the
pronunciation of 'z', would it not have surfaced there??? Overall,
though.. Yes.. Lata's pronuciation is much better than Asha.. it just
irks me when people complain about Asha's 'z' problem, when IMUQO, there
IS no 'z' problem... :)
>better Urdu pronounciation since that thread just ended a few months ago. The
>repeat cycles on RMIM are usually about a year :-) :-)
Of course that would be RD Burman... hands down....what with stuff like..
Yeh Dil to aata he ik dil javaani mei.n..
Samulder mei.n nahaa ke...
etc....
:)
Rizwan
> P
Pradeep Dubey
Are Baaba ... bahut paap lagega tum jaisOn ko UVR ... mere bhagwaan
ka naam is taraah toDne-moDne ke liye!
Preetham had discussed this a while back on RMIM (but of course,
RMIM period is now less than a year so things must repeat :-)
Asha had discussed it too during her last US tour. The word is
in fact 'jooThe' (as in 'jooTha khaana', there is no way
to translate 'jooTha' in English, IMO ;-).
Pradeep
Gulzar-is-to-Other-Lyricists == Zen-is-to-Other-Religions :-)
Rajiv Shridhar
U.V. Ravindra (u...@vnet.ibm.com) wrote:
: ra...@coe.neu.edu (Rajiv Shridhar) writes:
:
: => Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon (desh...@isip01.isip.msstate.edu) wrote:
: => :
: => : > AB does mis-pronounce occasionally ... example is from
: => : > the non filmi album "Dil Padosi Hai " (AB/RDB/Gulzar). In the song
: => : > " JhootHe tere Nain .." she pronounced Jhoothe as Jhoote. Notice
: => : > the tH was mispronounced.
: => :
: => : Umm... the correct song lyrics are 'JooThe tere nain...' and
: => : not 'JhooThe'. The two words are totally different in meaning and
: => : Gulzar has used this word-play very beautifully in this song. And at
: => : least I did not notice any mispronunciations by Asha in this song.
: =>
: =>
: => explained to us in detail that the former is the correct Hindi
: => pronounciation, whereas the latter is the correct Urdu pronounciation.
: =>
: => Neeraj, if Asha did sing 'jooThe tere nain', Gulzar would be implying
: => something like "your eyes are sullied". Which deserves another discussion. :)
:
: Rajiv, I *do* think the lyric *is* "jooTHe tere nain" as opposed to
: "jhooTHe/jhooTe tere nain". I am no authority on Gulzar, but
: considering that *he* is the lyricist, he could very well have used
: this subtle word play ... I too hear Asha singing 'jooTHe tere nain',
: and this DOES deserve discussion on RMIM. I certainly hope one or the
: other of RMIMs International Gullu-DanDa team ;-) ;-) members (Ashish,
: Guri, Pradeep [alphabetical order] ...) helps.
As aptly pointed out by Ravindra AND Neeraj (Deshmukh), I completely missed
that. Quite dumb of me. If I can make a feeble excuse, it is that songs
by Gulzar have a tendency to do that to me, making me sometimes miss some
really nice subtleties. :-) It makes for interesting interpretation,
though, using jooThaa (not that one shouldn't expect lyrics like this from
Gulzar), "your eyes are no longer pristine.....". Contrastingly, in Lekin,
Gulzar uses "JhooThe nainaa boleN saaNchi batiyaaN".....I hope I didn't
misunderstand Gulzar here.
: And oh, by the way, 'jooTHa/jooTHe' does NOT become 'jooTa/jooTe' in
: Urdu.
:
True, Sir. Accepted. BTW, I did not imply or state that it does. :)
:
: => : ND
: =>
: => Rajiv
:
: --
: Ravindra.
Rajiv
--
Rajiv Shridhar // Systems Mgr - Grad. Student // Communications and Digital
Signal Processing Center Center for Research and Graduate Studies //
Northeastern University, Boston, MA //ra...@hendrix.coe.neu.edu
aur bhi dukh haiN zamaane meiN mohabbat ke sivaa
raahateN aur bhi haiN vasl ki raahat ke sivaa -Faiz
Renu Thamma
: > AB inspite of being a fantastic singer does mis-pronounce
: > occasionally. The above example is one. Another example is from
: > the non filmi album "Dil Padosi Hai " (AB/RDB/Gulzar). In the song
: > " JhootHe tere Nain .." she pronounced Jhoothe as Jhoote. Notice
: > the tH was mispronounced.
: Umm... the correct song lyrics are 'JooThe tere nain...' and
: not 'JhooThe'. The two words are totally different in meaning and
: Gulzar has used this word-play very beautifully in this song. And at
: least I did not notice any mispronunciations by Asha in this song.
That's cos there aren't any. :) And you are right. The song is not talking
about eyes jo jhooTh bolti hain like Ravi Krishna interpreted. Through
the words of the song Asha (or rather Gulzar) says that his eyes that
even *saw* her 'souten' are jooTha. I think this is a lovely concept of
something that is not touched or tasted being jooTha just by being
'touched' by ones eyes.
: I would like to mention a very common one in Marathi songs. In
: Marathi the word for 'dil' is (almost) correctly pronounced as
: 'hruday', though in Roman script one may write it as 'hriday' (a la
: Rishi). Asha always pronounces it as 'hriday', which is not how it is
: done in Marathi.
It is interesting that you mention that. When we learnt Hindi in school
and were taught the alphabet we learnt 'ri' and 'rii' but never 'ru' and
'ruu' which are a part of the Telugu alphabet (and Marathi as you
mention). So I would presume that if you said the word in Hindi you would
say 'hriday' while in Marathi its 'hruday' and in Telugu its 'hrudayam'.
Asha interestingly has sung a couple of songs for a Telugu movie called
'Chinni Krishnudu' with music by RDB and there is one instance where she
sings 'mana hrudayaala kowgilinchina vela..' (the time our hearts
embrace). Can we safely assume that she used 'hriday' only in her Hindi
songs?
: > More to this list please.
Keep the list going. Its about time we picked on the pronunciations of
everyone, not just KKK (Kishore-'khaab'-Kumar) :)
Renu.
: ND
RamaKrishna M Menon
Turning the d'cussion around on RAFI (Hold it RAFIans, I too am
a RAFIan, a new and unregistered 1, though!) ...I have always
wondered at the way he pronnounced "dhoondoonga" in
"aapko dhoondoonga kaise, raste kho jaayenge" in the last stanza of
the more recent "darde-dil, dard-e-jigar, dil mein jagaya aapne" of
Karz! It almost sounds like "dhyundoonga"! Will some 1 put my doubts
to rest! Also he used to pronnounce "charag" and I don't know if it
should be pronnounced as "chirag" instead (as in "charag dil ka
jalao, bohot andhera hai"...)...
Later...
Menon.
me...@answer.com
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon wrote:
>
> In article <4tp0b1$7...@chaos.dac.neu.edu> ra...@coe.neu.edu (Rajiv
> Shridhar) writes:
>
> > Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon (desh...@isip01.isip.msstate.edu) wrote:
>
> > : Umm... the correct song lyrics are 'JooThe tere nain...' and
> > : not 'JhooThe'. The two words are totally different in meaning and
> > : Gulzar has used this word-play very beautifully in this song. And at
> > : least I did not notice any mispronunciations by Asha in this song.
>
> > It IS `jhooThe tere nain', not `jooThe tere...'
> >
> > jhooThe = lying, as in `mai.n jhooTh nahee.n bol rahaa hoon'
> >
> > whereas
> >
> > jooThe = sullied/spoilt/made un-(non-?)pristine,
> > as is `bhojan jooThaa kar diyaa'
>
> > Neeraj, if Asha did sing 'jooThe tere nain', Gulzar would be
> > implying something like "your eyes are sullied". Which deserves
> > another discussion. :)
>
> And you got it, sir... :-) Gulzar indeed wrote "JooThe" as in
> the 'bhojan' waala usage. If you listen to the following lines in the
> song the meaning is clear --- "your eyes are no longer pure, as you
> have looked at my 'sautan' with them". Not "your eyes are lying as
> they have looked at my sautan". As I said earlier, lovely word-play...
>
> > `hriday' may be wrong in Marathi songs, so Asha is guilty there. In
Kuntal Shah
>>>>> "UVR" == U V Ravindra <u...@vnet.ibm.com> writes:
UVR> The word is 'hRday' ... which is pronounced as 'hruday' in
UVR> Marathi and most South Indian languages/dialects, and as
UVR> 'hriday' in most North Indian languages/dialects. The same
UVR> is the case with 'Rshi' which becomes 'rushi' or 'rishi',
UVR> respectively. Read the Sanskrit newsgroup/discussion digest
UVR> for details of exact pronunciation; I am bad at explaning
UVR> that kind of a thing. All I can say is that BOTH
UVR> pronunciations are erroneous.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't think you can say that. Both kind of pronunciations are
built into respective languages over the years and they are now
considered "correct" pronunciations so much so that even "pundits"
in those languages will be using them that way.
Agreed that these wrods are originally from Sanskrit, but when they
are "ported" to regional languages, certain amout of "flexibility"
has to be allowed.
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
In article <3207E1...@answer.com> RamaKrishna M Menon <me...@answer.com> writes:
>Turning the d'cussion around on RAFI (Hold it RAFIans, I too am
>a RAFIan, a new and unregistered 1, though!) ...I have always
>wondered at the way he pronnounced "dhoondoonga" in
>"aapko dhoondoonga kaise, raste kho jaayenge" in the last stanza of
>the more recent "darde-dil, dard-e-jigar, dil mein jagaya aapne" of
>Karz! It almost sounds like "dhyundoonga"! Will some 1 put my doubts
>to rest! Also he used to pronnounce "charag" and I don't know if it
>should be pronnounced as "chirag" instead (as in "charag dil ka
>jalao, bohot andhera hai"...)...
>
I'm sure Rafi was not the first to say "charag", nor the "last"...though
it's definitely written "chirag". As for the "Karz" song, I haven't
heard it.
Sanjeev
Rizwan M. Syed
RamaKrishna M Menon <me...@answer.com> writes:
>Turning the d'cussion around on RAFI (Hold it RAFIans, I too am
>a RAFIan, a new and unregistered 1, though!) ...I have always
>wondered at the way he pronnounced "dhoondoonga" in
>"aapko dhoondoonga kaise, raste kho jaayenge" in the last stanza of
>the more recent "darde-dil, dard-e-jigar, dil mein jagaya aapne" of
>Karz! It almost sounds like "dhyundoonga"! Will some 1 put my doubts
Dude, you're hearing things... :) I really like that song and thus
listen to it all the time, but haven't ever felt anything wrong with
Rafi's pronunciation of the word.. I will, however, listen to it
more carefully and make sure...
>to rest! Also he used to pronnounce "charag" and I don't know if it
>should be pronnounced as "chirag" instead (as in "charag dil ka
>jalao, bohot andhera hai"...)...
I believe the correct pronunciation IS 'Charagh', but I can't recall
any song of Rafi's with the word.. :( Yes, yes, I'm just a RAFIan
wannabe.... :( Can you site some examples please? I'll try to listen
to them and reevaluate.. :)
Later..
Rizwan
Manjeet Rekhi
riz...@Neptune.Sparco.Com (Rizwan M. Syed) wrote:
>>to rest! Also he used to pronnounce "charag" and I don't know if it
>>should be pronnounced as "chirag" instead (as in "charag dil ka
>>jalao, bohot andhera hai"...)...
>
> I believe the correct pronunciation IS 'Charagh', but I can't recall
> any song of Rafi's with the word.. :( Yes, yes, I'm just a RAFIan
> wannabe.... :( Can you site some examples please? I'll try to listen
> to them and reevaluate.. :)
Sometimes, correct pronunciation is sacrificed to give beauty to the song
(Zindagi *khaab* hai - by Mukesh)
or sometimes it is demanded by the character on which it is picturised
(Saawan kaa mahiinaa, pavan kare *sor*)
Though I am not sure if the correct word is charaag or chiraag, I am sure
Rafi *knew* what he was singing :)
Kuntal Shah
>>>>> "Rizwan" == Rizwan M Syed <riz...@sparco.com> writes:
Rizwan> Of course that would be RD Burman... hands down....what
Rizwan> with stuff like..
Rizwan> Yeh Dil to aata he ik dil javaani mei.n..
Shouldn't that be "din" ??
U.V. Ravindra
In article <rizwan.8...@Neptune.Sparco.Com>
riz...@Neptune.Sparco.Com (Rizwan M. Syed) writes:
=> RamaKrishna M Menon <me...@answer.com> writes:
=>
=> >Turning the d'cussion around on RAFI (Hold it RAFIans, I too am
=> >a RAFIan, a new and unregistered 1, though!) ...I have always
=> >wondered at the way he pronnounced "dhoondoonga" in
=> >"aapko dhoondoonga kaise, raste kho jaayenge" in the last stanza of
=> >the more recent "darde-dil, dard-e-jigar, dil mein jagaya aapne" of
=> >Karz! It almost sounds like "dhyundoonga"! Will some 1 put my doubts
=>
=> Dude, you're hearing things... :) I really like that song and thus
=> listen to it all the time, but haven't ever felt anything wrong with
=> Rafi's pronunciation of the word.. I will, however, listen to it
=> more carefully and make sure...
I can't notice any "DHyuNDooNga" in that song either. May be your
recording is a little skewed, Menon sir.
=> >to rest! Also he used to pronnounce "charag" and I don't know if it
=> >should be pronnounced as "chirag" instead (as in "charag dil ka
=> >jalao, bohot andhera hai"...)...
=>
=> I believe the correct pronunciation IS 'Charagh', but I can't recall
=> any song of Rafi's with the word.. :( Yes, yes, I'm just a RAFIan
=> wannabe.... :( Can you site some examples please? I'll try to listen
=> to them and reevaluate.. :)
I believe the correct pronunciation is, indeed, charaaGH, as Rizwan's
said. The Rafi song "charaaGH dil kaa jalaao, bahut andheraa hai" is a
sterling example, as is Asha's pronunciation of the word in "charaaGH
jag magaa uTHe" (abhi na jaao chhoD. kar). I *have* heard quite a few
knowledgeable people pronounce it as chiraaGH, though, and I have no
definitive indication from any source that this is actually incorrect.
Regards,
Ravindra.
Ikram Ahmed Khan
U.V. Ravindra (u...@vnet.ibm.com) wrote:
: riz...@Neptune.Sparco.Com (Rizwan M. Syed) writes:
: => I believe the correct pronunciation IS 'Charagh', but I can't recall
: => wannabe.... :( Can you site some examples please? I'll try to listen
: => to them and reevaluate.. :)
: I believe the correct pronunciation is, indeed, charaaGH, as Rizwan's
: said. The Rafi song "charaaGH dil kaa jalaao, bahut andheraa hai" is a
: sterling example, as is Asha's pronunciation of the word in "charaaGH
: jag magaa uTHe" (abhi na jaao chhoD. kar). I *have* heard quite a few
: knowledgeable people pronounce it as chiraaGH, though, and I have no
: definitive indication from any source that this is actually incorrect.
My 'do kauD.ee' worth - ChiraaGH.
:)
Later,
Ikram.
: Regards,
: Ravindra.
Rizwan M. Syed
kun...@india.ti.com (Kuntal Shah) writes:
> Rizwan> Of course that would be RD Burman... hands down....what
> Rizwan> with stuff like..
> Rizwan> Yeh Dil to aata he ik dil javaani mei.n..
> Shouldn't that be "din" ??
So much for my attempt at humor.. that was the whole point.... *sigh*
Rizwan
Kuntal Shah
>>>>> "R" == Rizwan M Syed <riz...@Neptune.Sparco.Com> writes:
Rizwan> Of course that would be RD Burman... hands down....what
Rizwan> with stuff like.. Yeh Dil to aata he ik dil javaani
Rizwan> mei.n..
>> Shouldn't that be "din" ??
R> So much for my attempt at humor.. that was the whole
R> point.... *sigh*
I was under impression thar RDB sings
"ye dil to aata hai ek din jawaani meN"
thus making one mistake and you had made the other :-) Now after one more
hearing I realize that he makes both the mistakes.
So when you say "that was the whole point" I actually got atleast half
the point first time :-)
Now I think the first "dil" may not be a mispronunciation but maybe he
actually thought that's the way it is. Because even then lyrics make
sense. What do you think ?
BTW, there is one song where SPB also says "dil" instead of "din".
Does anybody remember it ?? The movie stars Salman Khan, and music
is by Ram-Laxman, if that helps :-) :-)
Rizwan M. Syed
kun...@india.ti.com (Kuntal Shah) writes:
> So when you say "that was the whole point" I actually got atleast half
> the point first time :-)
Hey!, that's half a point more than I would've expected... :)
> Now I think the first "dil" may not be a mispronunciation but maybe he
> actually thought that's the way it is. Because even then lyrics make
> sense. What do you think ?
That debate could go on forever, until someone gets in touch with the
lyricist (???). It works both ways, "Yeah Din to aata hay ik din
javaani mei.n", as well as "Yeah Dil to aata hay ik Din javaani
mei.n" *shrug*
Rizwan
Kuntal Shah
>>>>> "Rizwan" == Rizwan M Syed <riz...@Neptune.Sparco.Com> writes:
Rizwan> That debate could go on forever, until someone gets in
Rizwan> touch with the lyricist (???). It works both ways, "Yeah
Rizwan> Din to aata hay ik din javaani mei.n", as well as "Yeah
Rizwan> Dil to aata hay ik Din javaani mei.n" *shrug*
But the second way would have meant Asha made a mistake too, albeit
in a different word.
About first instance of "dil"/"din", there are 3 different possibilities :
1. RDB made the mistake ( making "dil" out of "din" )
2. Asha made the mistake ( making "din" out of "dil" )
3. Lyricist wanted them to sing in different ways
(2) is hard to believe.
(1) is more likely.
(3) is also unlikely, but keeps all happy.