I have never harmed other singers: Lata
UVR
From http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/866282.cms
Article quoted below for reference.
-UVR.
As she turned 75 today, Bollywood melody queen Lata Mangeshkar said she had never harmed other singers' careers and that her conscience was clear.
"I've never wished or done harm to anyone. People may not believe me, but I know this is the truth," said Lata.
What do you attribute your consistent uninterrupted place at the top for six decades?
I have always believed that God has been kind to me. That's God's truth. No one, not even me, could succeed without God's will and people's good wishes. That's why it's very essential not to tread on anyone's toes. I've never praised myself. But let me do so now and say that to date, I've never wished or done harm to anyone.
I've never harmed other singers' careers. People may not believe me, but I know this to be truth. My conscience is therefore clear. But people have constantly accused me of exercising a monopoly in the movie business.
I've never been able to understand what this monopoly is. I've always welcomed every new singer. If God wills someone to succeed then no one can stop her. I have never wished bad any one bad and that shows in my singing.
The response to your new soundtrack Veer Zaara is unparalleled.
Some critics say neither the late composer Madan Mohan nor I seem to possess the magic that we created 30 years ago. Isn't it a little absurd to have such expectations from us? The music in Veer Zaara is targeted at today's generation. We can't be stuck in the past. We've to move on without compromising.
The fly-by-night attitude that has overtaken the industry must stop. In spite of the adverse comments, the Veer Zaara soundtrack containing what cynics say are the rejected tunes of the late Madan Mohan is selling better than any of the contemporary stuff.
What do you think of the vulgarity that has seeped into film music through remix albums?
I decline such songs politely, saying I can't do justice to them. Though I must say the songs that I considered vulgar in those days seem like bhajans (devotional music) compared with what's being sung these days!
Yes, I've sung naughty songs. But I was very uncomfortable singing Buddha mil gaya for Sangam . I even quarrelled with Raj Kapoor. He promised to treat the song aesthetically. But I never had the courage to see the film.
I must say it's really strange that though I was known to sing sober songs, most of the remixed numbers are mine. Kaanta lagaa , for instance, had another context when I sang it.
I feel sorry for the girl who was seen in the music video of Kaanta lagaa . I've heard she's from a decent family. Why wasn't she stopped by her family? Ambition? If she did it with their consent, then God help them.
I struggled hard to get where I am. That's why I am still here.
jyotiprakasguha
sufferers is long. Most have not said much in public but Bengali singer
Arati Mukherjee dared to give a tv interview where she openly accused the
Mangeshkar sisters of sabotaging her career in Bombay- threats to MDs ,
"request" to Kishor Kumar not to sing duets with her. In fact a recording
session had to be cancelled when Kishore was called away from the
sudio...
JyotiPrakash Guha.
Abhay Phadnis
0102ed4d40984338...@localhost.talkaboutthemusic.com,
"jyotiprakasguha" <jyotipr...@rediffmail.com> wrote:
Being a Lata fan, I am wary of getting into these debates lest my 'fan-dom'
be seen as affecting objectivity, but I cannot resist this. Even if we
accept that the sisters Mangeshkar DID attempt to sabotage others' careers,
just what WAS the hold they had over MDs, producers, and other singers that
made these worthies bow to the sisters' dictates? The sisters were merely
singers, after all - they didn't produce the films (except a handful), they
didn't finance them, they didn't own the studios, they were women in a man's
world - so just HOW did they get all these people to kowtow to their whim
and sabotage others' careers??
You mention Kishore Kumar above; if he, an established and successful star
in his own right who was presumably not dependent on the sisters for
anything, did indeed heed a "request" from them to stop singing with x or y,
who should one blame - the sisters or KK?
Warm regards,
Abhay
jyotiprakasguha
music directors indeed speak of their talent, a supremacy over others. The
MDs were afraid that they would not sing any more for them and barring
OPN, no one had the guts to go without them. Regarding the KK episode,
weell, could be friendship or personal attachment prevented him from
singing with Arati M. -fault on both sides-he should not have been
"requested" in the first place. If the sisters were very confident, there
would not have been any reason to stop newcomers getting the lime light.
I repeat, I am indeed a fan of lata mangeshkkar, who isn't? No questions
raised about her singing-I would not dare to do that in private
even-however, as a person she is quite different, quite ruthless.
jyotiprakash Guha.
Pulkit
> I am myself a great fan of Lata Mangeshkar songs. No questions
> raised about her singing-I would not dare to do that in private
> even-however, as a person she is quite different, quite ruthless.
> jyotiprakash Guha.
When we fall in love with the voice of a singer, we inevitably fall in
love to some extent with the persona of the singer and thus somewhere
develop a tendency to look in "black and white" terms where our
cherished singer seems to symbolize whatever is "good and perfect."
Talent alone never seems to make careers accross decades, there are
for sure many more factors that determine that who reigns and who does
not- at the end political factors and power struggles do play a great
role. Talking about my own self, I'm a die-hard Noor Jehan fan and
have great regard for her talent and singing abilities. Whenever,
there is a discussion of her career, I may refrain myself from
mentioning the malice she held toward other singers, I may even
justify it on several accounts but the reality cannot change. What we
probably need to give up is our tendency to view our cherished singer
as a heavenly being...let us regard him or her as a human being with
the possibility of several imperfections.
Regards
Pulkit Sharma
jyotiprakasguha
Jyotiprakash Guha
kcp
Hello Dr Jyotiprakash ji
Why are you putting statements which have no backing ?? Why involve
Kishore ??
IMO, Kishore did not have time ( in 50's due to acting, etc..being the
4th busiest, succcessful hindi cinema star, after the trio.... and in
70's/80's being the most wanted singer in Hindi film industry ) to do
such dirty politics...no need to give backing to these statements !!
:P
Regards
KCP
Abhay Jain
"jyotiprakasguha" <jyotipr...@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
news:592524db57e8b6a1...@localhost.talkaboutthemusic.com...
In a dog eat dog world where making money reins,
it is surprising that producers/MDs would choose Lata
even when she would charge more money and was the
only one who demanded royalty and got it. I have yet
to read any statement by any MD or producer who claims
that she pressured them to keep someone else out. I recall
one interview of Asha, where she mentioned that if we
really don't want others to come, we can drop our price,
but we charge the most.
As someone had written a post that in a male world, two young girls
with no real connection had good in their art to survive. Were
they ruthless - probably but was necessary. Many MDs used
to make tunes specially for Lata. At Denver meet,
Alokaji (Salil Chaudhary's daughter) mentioned that her father
used to make tunes specifically for Lata like SDB, Anil Biswas
and many others.
Recently Sharda (of SJ) was being interviewd on a local radio station.
She complained vehemently that Lata and Asha did not let
her come up. Hello Sharda - it was Shankar who ditched Lata
and tried to push you so hard even though you could not sing.
As I had mentioned sometime ago in a post, Lata bashing is fashionable
for mediocre singers or signers who could not make it.
It is called Victim Mentality, where one blames others
for their own competence or failures.
Lataji, please....please retire and let us enjoy your voice of yesteryears.
AJ
V S Rawat वी एस रावत
> As she turned 75 today, Bollywood melody queen Lata
> Mangeshkar said she had never harmed other singers'
> careers and that her conscience was clear. "I've never
> wished or done harm to anyone. People may not believe me,
> but I know this is the truth," said Lata.
The following might be relevant:
Producer jhunjhunwala had called Ravindra Jain from Calcutta
to mumbai to compose for his film "Lori", but Ravindra
Jain's first film was "Kaa.Nch aur hiiraa" which had a song
"nazar aatii nahii.n ma.nzil" sung solo by rafi and suman
kalyanpur which became very popular.
Then, Tarachand badjatya contracted Ravindra Jain to compose
for Rajshri production movies and he gave music for Nadiya
ke paar, giit gaata chal, ankhiyon ke jharokho se, dulhan
wahii jo piya man bhaye, chitchor, saudagar which were all
musically hit.
Other than rajshrii, He had given music for Sippy's faqiraa
and chor machaaye shor.
Not all but most of the songs in all these films were sung
by Hemlata.
In 70s, a film was being made and Ravindra Jain had composed
a song for it that he thought would be appropriate if Lata
sings it. He rang her.
He told her, "Lata didi, mai.n aapase apanaa ek giit
gavaanaa chaahataa huu.N"
Lata replied, "jis hemlataa se abhii tak gavaate chale aa
rahe ho, usii se gavaa lo", and disconnected.
----------
Friends finally prevailed upon him to call Asha to sing this
song. Asha agreed to sing it and it got recorded.
The song was "saathi re, bhuul na jaana meraa pyaar" of
Kotwaal saaheb.
-----------
Then, around 83, Ravindra Jain was giving music for Raj
Kapoor's Ram teri gangaa mailii. And Lata sang all female
songs for this film, inspite of it having Ravindra jain.
(by Vinay Chhibbar)
--
Rawat
abba
called BBB is different;here it is:
Bhadke bol beta forum
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From Kaustubh Pingle <kcpingle@g...>
Date: Sat Oct 2, 2004 3:46 am
Subject: from RMIM
Here is i read something funny on RMIM
-------
How many really beleive that Lata has not harmed any singer? The list of
sufferers is long. Most have not said much in public but Bengali singer
Arati Mukherjee dared to give a tv interview where she openly accused the
Mangeshkar sisters of sabotaging her career in Bombay- threats to MDs ,
"request" to Kishor Kumar not to sing duets with her. In fact a recording
session had to be cancelled when Kishore was called away from the
sudio...
JyotiPrakash Guha
--------
I dont know why people involve Kishore everywhere :((
Some donkeys first say that he was doing conspiracy against Yesudas
and some singers and was not letting them sing much in the 70's !!! I
would like to tear their clothes of such idiots, make them bald, make
sit on a donkey and go on hitting chhappals till he dies...
Abbe ghadoprasadoooo - apne khudke bete ko usne preference nahi diya (
who was 10000 % times better "hindi" "playback" singer than Yesudas
and the likes...much suited in the 70's )...to baaqi logon ke saath
kyon politics khelta ?? :(
I hate such BASELESS statements against Kishore....and on top of it
they say that we are not Kishore haters but are not blind supporters
too...my foot !!!
KCP
---------------------------------------------------------
Any comments on the attitude of this so called big fan(or fanatic)
of Kishore Kumar?
Abba
Ajit
> The language used by this fan in a forum of Yahoo
> called BBB is different;here it is:
> Bhadke bol beta forum
>
> of Kishore Kumar?
>
> Abba
IMHO, it is not right to dig out statements from another forum and
paste them here on RMIM. If you disagreed with Kaustubh's remarks on
BBM, you should have countered them there (or emailed him personally).
Complaining about the language he used in another forum is giving an
undesirable "personal" angle to the whole debate.
kcp
> called BBB is different;here it is:
> Bhadke bol beta forum
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> From Kaustubh Pingle <kcpingle@g...>
> Date: Sat Oct 2, 2004 3:46 am
> Subject: from RMIM
>
>
> Here is i read something funny on RMIM
>
> -------
> How many really beleive that Lata has not harmed any singer? The list of
> sufferers is long. Most have not said much in public but Bengali singer
> Arati Mukherjee dared to give a tv interview where she openly accused the
> Mangeshkar sisters of sabotaging her career in Bombay- threats to MDs ,
> "request" to Kishor Kumar not to sing duets with her. In fact a recording
> session had to be cancelled when Kishore was called away from the
> sudio...
> JyotiPrakash Guha
> --------
>
> I dont know why people involve Kishore everywhere :((
Just to clarify : Response to Jyotiprakash ji's post on RMIM ended
here in the above comment of mine...thats it......the following is
related to Yesudas conspiracy :)...i still maintain my statements
against "such" donkeys...
Now people are free to comment :P
KCP
jyotiprakasguha
JyotiPrakash Guha.
kcp
> Why don't you confirm from Arati herself? Phone: (033)24745225.
>
> JyotiPrakash Guha.
Hello Dr Guha ji
I tried but the phone was not picked up..
Instead i had a chat with her nephew ( brothers son ), Mr Srijit and
he says the following :
Quote :
I have no idea where that clipping abt Kishore was called back during
a duet with Arati Mukherjee originated...but as far as my information
goes, nothing of that manner happened. In fact Arati Mukherjee
respects Kishore Kumar tremendously, and feels that his ability to
render difficult songs(emotion wise, grammar wise both) with
effortless ease is something which is exemplary.Moreover, she feels
that he was a champion of camaraderie amongst playback singers, and
seriously believed there is room for everyone...
She did however get a raw deal, in Bollywood.She has genuine
grievances against two people, and that DOES NOT include Lata
Mangeshkar....but that is another story....
Unquote
------
One more discussion in Kishore forum, in which a friend Anirudha
Bhattacharjee says ( you can consider this as unconfirmed source of
information, same as i did ) :
Quote
- Around the mid-eighties, Aarati was asked in an interview 'Who
according to u are the best playback / light music singers in Bengali
at present?'
Aarti's reply : Male -Kishore Kumar. And being a lady,
how can I rate ladies?
- Her greivance was against not 2 but 3.. Srijit,u can
verify from her.
1. Ravindra Jain
2. Hemlata (by the same chain)
3. Asha the Lady (courtesy Pancham using her for Do
naina)
She has also voiced about how composers like Anu Malik
have made s....l approaches.
Unquote
--------
Now why dont you come up and say when did she give that interview on
TV ? or your information is also from an unconfirmed source ??
Regds
KCP
jyotiprakasguha
Where did you get the nephew's phone? Is it the same as her's?
The interview appeared in print media (Bengali newspaper, not a
magazine)sometime in the ninetees. Just a few days later, she gave an
interview on tv where she blamed both the Mangeshkar sisters for all the
raw deal that she got in Bombay. In the same place place she complained
about her duet recording with KK being cancelled and she blamed Asha (not
Lata) for this particular incident. She blamed both sisters of course
generally. She did not complain about KK, only said that she was hurt. I
do not remember the date and the channel in which this was telecast.
However, if you can manage to talk to her directly she would perhaps come
out striaght and not deny what she has said. Newspaper reports can be
denied easily but a tv interview can't. I was surprised also because I had
never heard before anyone (artists I mean, not politicians) getting so
personal about grievances. Another thing, she might not be willing to
discuss all this with a stranger- this is my guess.
About her (Arati Mukherjee) talent now. It can always be said that she got
"raw deal" because she wasn't talened enough. That is for the listeners to
decide. I am no fan of her's although I do like some of her songs. She has
been the top playback singer in Bengali fils in the seventees, then
vanshed from the scene (personal problems I hear) and then made a comeback
in the ninetees and is working well now, not much as a playback singer but
non film songs, quite a few of them Tagore songs.
Regards,
Jyoti Prakash Guha.
Samik
>I have yet
> to read any statement by any MD or producer who claims
> that she pressured them to keep someone else out.
Exactly ! That would be my point, too. Since its unlikely that Lata
had contacts with deadly serial killers, the only reason for MD's to
be 'afraid' of her would be her threat to stop singing for them
(actually thats unlikely, too..because in those days the MDs would
always be in a position of supreme command over the singer, NOT the
other way around). In that case, what prevented people like
O.P.Nayyaar (just to give an example) who didn't need Lata, to speak
out against her devious actions ? Especially as he could (reportedly)
make tasteless comments against Lata's looks; and more importantly,
be frank enough to admit his own role in supporting Asha's 'monopoly'
over Geeta Dutt ? (according to him he was 'under Asha's spell' at
that time) Why didn't Shankar, even during the 'hate Lata, get Sharda'
phase ? ( I could be wrong here, please correct me if I am ).As for
other MDs, supposing they kept their mouth shut for fear of Lata
ruining their careers, what prevented them from revealing Lata's
secret actions, AFTER THEIR RETIREMENT ? I mean..people like Anil
Biswas were not exactly known to be cowardly or timid. Neither was
Sajjad Hussain, who in fact ruined his career because of his
outspokenness, if some people are to be believed. Similarly, the
producers and directors, while complaining about her ego etc (Raj
Kapoor used to say that Lata had the biggest ego in the world), never
complained about her alleged 'monopoly', as Abhayji pointed out.
I am not trying to suggest that Lata was a 'bholi-bhali' saint.
That would be naive. (After all, how many musical personalities have
been known to be 'saints' ? ). Since somebody mentioned Ravindra Jain;
Lata once made the extremely tasteless remark that he was not only
blind, but also deaf !! She admitted that in an interview (in the same
interview, she was asked about her alleged 'monopoly', and her
straightforward answer was something like .."Yes, I do believe I
should be preferred over others if I happen to sing better than them !
After all, I worked insanely hard, and sacrificed everything in life
to attain my skills. If you think I reached the top by unfair means,
why do you think another Lata Mangeshkar was never born ??" . However
arrogant she might sound, I think she has a valid point. People talk
about her monopoly;; why don't they talk about how hard she worked?
Naushad would narrate how Lata once fainted during the rehearsal of a
song, and the first thing she wanted to do after coming round is to
rehearse again.)
So the point is that the monopoly allegations against Asha and Lata
are blown out of proportion. I know I lack enough musical knowlege to
have an opinion on this, but does anybody seriously believe that
Aarati/Shamshad/Suman/ etc had the ability to do justice to a
super-complex western classical based Salil Choudhury song, and a
simple but divinely serene Roshan song, at the same time ? Or, render
an Indian classical song in such a manner that prompted classical
Ustads (who, again, had nothing to fear from Lata) to say that the
effect they created in half an hour of singing Lata could create in 5
minutes of singing ? That doesn't mean those other female singers are
not in my list of favourites. Of course they are, because they all had
their unique appeal. Neither am I saying that Lata has to be
everybody's favourite singer; many people prefer a 'different' kind of
voice, with all its limitations (most common example being Geeta
Dutt). All I am saying is, if the Mangeshkar sisters got more song
than others, that's because THEY DESERVED IT. Period.
Samik
Ajit
> "Abhay Jain" <aba...@aol.com> wrote in message news:<eYw7d.24982$kq6.13...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>...
>
> >I have yet
> > to read any statement by any MD or producer who claims
> > that she pressured them to keep someone else out.
> Exactly ! That would be my point, too. Since its unlikely that Lata
> had contacts with deadly serial killers, the only reason for MD's to
> Dutt). All I am saying is, if the Mangeshkar sisters got more song
> than others, that's because THEY DESERVED IT. Period.
> Samik
I agree 100%. I would say the same to Vani Jayaram for her having
repeatedly accused the sisters of monopoly. She had Vasant Desai to
promote her, but their combination did not succeed beyond Guddi. Even
in Shaque (Vasant Desai's last film?), it was Asha who was the lead
singer and not Vani. Vani even got one golden chance to impress Gulzar
in her album Meera with Ravi Shankar after Lata refused to sing for
that film (and consequently all the film music composers had refused
to compose for that film). But did Gulzar continue with Vani? What
stopped him from hiring other composers like Vanraj Bhatia (or O P
Nayyar!) and insist that they used Vani (if L-P or RDB were going to
boycott her upon the insistence of the Mangeshkar sisters)? But IMO,
after having to suffer her *atrocious* pronunciation as in "jaw tum
tawDaw piya", he probably decided to stick to Lata and Asha later.
Nothing but nothing could have "threatened" Gulzar into not using Vani
any more, for he was very well established in the film industry.
Same goes with O P Nayyar. In the 70s, he was not working with Asha
any more and he had never worked with Lata. Why could he not create a
partnership with Vani? After all, nothing would stop him (he was not
the one to be pressurised by any singer). But the fact was that VJ was
never a match for the sisters in Hindi film music. He kept switching
from Dilraj Kaur to VJ to Runa Laila etc.
The ultimate case is that of Sharada accusing the sisters of
destroying her "career". As someone has rightly pointed out, it is
high time that she realizes that Shankar ditched a gifted singer and
chose the non-singer that she was, instead. Therefore the "I was not
given a chance" argument seems rather like a poor excuse on part of
Sharada.
As an aside, I have to come across *one* interview where Suman
Kalyanpur has accused Lata and Asha of sabotage. Does any such
interview exist?
Archisman
Dear Mr. Rawat,
What about 'tera mera saath rahe' from 'saudagar' in the 70's? Was
that not a Lata-bai - Ravindra Jain effort?
Regards-Archisman.
V S Rawat वी एस रावत
That is indeed there, and I am sure there ought to be a few
more song by them together.
Not a high number considering Lata gave 5067 songs till 1990.
But I am all ears if someone could find out and share how
the above exception could come about. Maybe, Ravindra Jain's
comredship with Hemlata started after the above song when he
got earmarked for Rajshrii's small budget films.
------------
When oldies' gang is going gagaga over Lata being the most
newbie-friendly lady of millenium, I would like to mention
one other example.
It was alleged that Lata was not exactly amused with MD
(Kalyanji Anandji?) who introduced Runa Laila to HFM in ek
se ba.Dh kar ek. It was alleged that she had boycotted the
MD for some time.
Very surprising considering KA had given her dozens of
lovely songs.
Hope someone could dig out something on that, or could
tickle his/her gray cells to recall something that proves it
one way or the other.
Whoever dares to dispute the above should remain warned to
be ready to eat humble pie. Anandji's ujaale unaki yaado.n
ke is going on on vividh bharati. He has reached Anandi and
jab jab phul khile. I am sure that he will mention the big
achievement of introducing Runa Laila to HFM. Maybe he
utters something about that episode.
-------------
I have already said that I don't mind her trying to guard
her territory. After all, she has to earn money to run her
house and several other social work activities that she is
kind enough to conduct, without bothering about the bullshit
of supaatra and kupaatra.
Those who had talent did come up in spite of her, the way
she had come up at that time in spite of possible similar
practices by the established names in 40s.
-----------
It is further a point that no such rumour was every heard
about male singers that some established name tried to
suppress newbie male singer. On the other extreme, people
like mukesh had insisted that manhar's version remains in
abhiman when the director/ md were insisting on mukesh
re-recording it.
Thus, about lata, agar dhu_aa.N u.Dataa jaa rahaa hai to
chi.ngarii to hogii hii.
--
Rawat
Asif
was by Chandrani Mukherjee, not by Suman Kalyanpur.
Lata sang a duet 'Premi sabhi hote hain deewaane' with KK for Ravindra
Jain in Daasi (1980).
Asif
V S Rawat ?? ?? ???? <VSRawat_...@hclinfinet.com> wrote in message news:<2s7pcoF...@uni-berlin.de>...
Archisman
> UVR wrote:
>
I remember reading in Filmfare after ram teri ganga maili's success,
Lata-bai saying how all her songs in the movie had the unmistakable
Raj Kapoor touch. This had pained Ravindra Jain a lot and (if I
remember correctly) he did go public with his anguish.
Lata-bai, in my opinion, resembles Kesarbai Kerkar a lot. You may hear
murmurs of discontent from the Aarti's, Runa's, Vani's (Rasoolanbai's,
Gangubai's, etc.) but show me someone better than her in her field!
Regards-Archisman.
Abhay Phadnis
eb384a5e.04100...@posting.google.com, "Archisman"
<arch...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
(snip)
> Lata-bai, in my opinion, resembles Kesarbai Kerkar a lot. You may hear
> murmurs of discontent from the Aarti's, Runa's, Vani's (Rasoolanbai's,
> Gangubai's, etc.) but show me someone better than her in her field!
I have heard of Kesarbai's condescending attitude toward Rasoolanbai, but I
have never heard of Rasoolanbai complaining. In Gangubai's case, I haven't
heard of anything from either side. Any specifics?
Also, can Kesarbai and Rasoolanbai be said to be from the same field? The
latter was never a khyal singer, while the former's semi-classical
renditions were very rare. FWIW, for a thumri or a dadra, I would take
Rasoolanbai over Kesarbai any day!
Warm regards,
Abhay
shri kumar
badi machhali chhoti ko nigal jaati hai.Lata has been screaming from
roof tops against Remix..What is her Shradhhanajali ?
Ajit
> Film industry runs on Survival of fittest principal.Yahan
> badi machhali chhoti ko nigal jaati hai.Lata has been screaming from
> roof tops against Remix..What is her Shradhhanajali ?
Shraddhanjali is not the same as remix albums. In her Shradhhanjali
tapes, Lata sang to thhose tunes as they were without "modernizing"
the tunes. Also, she mentioned the names of the original singers as
well, which is not done in T-series cover versions.
Surma Bhopali
>
> I remember reading in Filmfare after ram teri ganga maili's success,
> Lata-bai saying how all her songs in the movie had the unmistakable
> Raj Kapoor touch. This had pained Ravindra Jain a lot and (if I
> remember correctly) he did go public with his anguish.
>
> Lata-bai, in my opinion, resembles Kesarbai Kerkar a lot. You may hear
> murmurs of discontent from the Aarti's, Runa's, Vani's (Rasoolanbai's,
> Gangubai's, etc.) but show me someone better than her in her field!
>
> Regards-Archisman.
Not exactly in dhuaa.N-chi.ngaarii tone, but I have some worries too.
I find Indian performers generally fail to "retire with dignity" at an
appropriate time. Lata is no exception here. We all know Lata is/was
the best, no arguments here. The HFM world nearly made the "best" the
"only" option with the exception of her sister Asha. I can't imagine
HFM music without Asha and with more contribution from more female
voices it would have been even more colourful. I agree not even one
tried female singer compares with Lata's prowess in rendition. But
come on, not every song composed for a female voice is a "manamohanaa
ba.De jhuuThe". Didn't Sulakshana sound beautiful in "baa.Ndhii re
kaahe priit" or Hemalata in "a.Nkhiyo.n ke jharokho.n se" or Aarti in
"shyaam terii bansii"? They sure could have produced more gems.
To me overall output of female voices in Bangla is much more colourful
and enjoyable with decent contributions from Lata, Asha, Sandhya,
Madhuri, Aarti, Haimanti, Pratima and many (pure) Rabindra Sangeet
singers. HFM generally lacks diversity as far as female voices is
concerned. Please note I am not blaming Lata or any single person for
this state of affairs, but that's what it is. The natural diversity of
abundant female voices ought to have reflected better in HF music.
V S Rawat वी एस रावत
technically, Shraddhanajali was cover version.
but, what you are saying will make Veer Zara a remix because
of ["modernizing" the tunes]. Except that the tunes were not
originally released.
In an interview, Lata presented that as the plus point of
Veer Zaara, saying something like, "if people were expecting
old type of music that MM used to give at that time, it was
not a correct expectation. In Veer Zara, his tunes have been
modernized to match the current trends."
I wonder what the will be Naya Daur and Mughal-e-azam musics
which are being re-touched.
Several ghazals and bhazans and traditional songs are
rendered by different singers in their own unique styles,
but nobody decries them.
In summary, it all has a more simple logic - If I do it,
it is right, if you do the same, it is wrong.
--
Rawat
jyotiprakasguha
better TUMI JE AMAR ?
jyoti Prakash Guha.
Prithviraj Dasgupta
(snipped)
>
> To me overall output of female voices in Bangla is much more colourful
> and enjoyable with decent contributions from Lata, Asha, Sandhya,
> Madhuri, Aarti, Haimanti, Pratima and many (pure) Rabindra Sangeet
> singers. HFM generally lacks diversity as far as female voices is
> concerned. Please note I am not blaming Lata or any single person for
> this state of affairs, but that's what it is. The natural diversity of
> abundant female voices ought to have reflected better in HF music.
The diversity in voices of singers you mentioned caused an interesting
difference in the format of record-music based radio programmes in
Bengali vs. Hindi. In Bengali radio programmes, two songs by the
same singer were almost never played in the same programme (unless it
was a commemmorative programme), but in Hindi, repetition of the singer
was common. Bengali music programmes had another interesting aspect -
the singers would be arranged according to popularity (determined
possibly by the announcer), with male and female songs alternating.
So, Sandhya, Lata, Asha or Hemanta, Manna, Kishore songs would be
towards the end of the programme, while the beginning would feature
singers like Chandrani Mukherjee, Banashree Sengupta, or, Pintu
Bhattacharya, Anup Ghoshal, etc.
-Prithviraj
shri kumar
afterall what is remix ? an original song sung by one singer lateron
sung by one singr sung afterwards by another singer.is it not ? or
someone has different defination . Is modernisation a must for re-mix
? is non mention of original singer a must ? .Pl. elicidate.
Hemal Pandya
a song sung originaly by a singer sung later on by another is remix,is it not ?
Surma Bhopali
> Why did you leave Geeta from your list of Bengali songs? Can you imagine a
> better TUMI JE AMAR ?
> jyoti Prakash Guha.
By no means my intent was to write an exhaustive list of female voices
in Bengali. Thanks for reminding of Geeta's contribution.
Surma Bhopali
>
> The diversity in voices of singers you mentioned caused an interesting
> difference in the format of record-music based radio programmes in
> Bengali vs. Hindi. In Bengali radio programmes, two songs by the
> same singer were almost never played in the same programme (unless it
> was a commemmorative programme), but in Hindi, repetition of the singer
> was common. Bengali music programmes had another interesting aspect -
> the singers would be arranged according to popularity (determined
> possibly by the announcer), with male and female songs alternating.
> So, Sandhya, Lata, Asha or Hemanta, Manna, Kishore songs would be
> towards the end of the programme, while the beginning would feature
> singers like Chandrani Mukherjee, Banashree Sengupta, or, Pintu
> Bhattacharya, Anup Ghoshal, etc.
>
> -Prithviraj
I wasn't lucky enough to listen to Bengali radio programs. Thanks for
sharing your experience.
Archisman
> On 10/6/04 3:19 PM, in article
> eb384a5e.04100...@posting.google.com, "Archisman"
> <arch...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> (snip)
> > Lata-bai, in my opinion, resembles Kesarbai Kerkar a lot. You may hear
> > murmurs of discontent from the Aarti's, Runa's, Vani's (Rasoolanbai's,
> > Gangubai's, etc.) but show me someone better than her in her field!
>
> I have heard of Kesarbai's condescending attitude toward Rasoolanbai, but I
> have never heard of Rasoolanbai complaining. In Gangubai's case, I haven't
> heard of anything from either side. Any specifics?
Gangubai mentions in her autobiography (translated in English) that
during her first meeting with Kesarbai, the latter was aloof. However
the subsequent meeting/s was/were better. (I thought that the 2nd line
was more of a damage control exercise than anything else)
(I had read this anecdote in a bengali book called 'kudrat
rangi-birangi' by Kumarprasad Mukhapadhyay):
When AIR started the famous 1 hr. long National Programme, the first
ever artist to be broadcasted was Aftaab-E-Mausiqi Faiyyaaz Hussain
Khan. The 2nd artist was Surshri Kesarbai Kerkar. Kesarbai promptly
despatched a letter to the chief of AIR (Mr. Bokhari?) after the 3rd
programme by Gangubai/Gandhari Hangal, demanding that her (Kesarbai's)
programmes may no longer be broadcast because the standard of artists
in the National Programme have degraded and she no longer did want to
be associated with artists of 'lower' calibre!
>
> Also, can Kesarbai and Rasoolanbai be said to be from the same field? The
> latter was never a khyal singer, while the former's semi-classical
> renditions were very rare. FWIW, for a thumri or a dadra, I would take
> Rasoolanbai over Kesarbai any day!
You have a point, Abhay. However, in my opinion, Kesarbai's bhairavi
thumri - 'jaat kahaan ho', her khamaj hori - 'aaj shyam mo-se khelat
hori' and her bhairavi thumri - 'kaise samjhaaun' are so stunningly
beautiful, that they remind me of Rahul Dravid's astonishing 21 ball
50 in an ODI in India (vs. New Zealand).
That unbeaten knock (despite being crafted by a quintessential
'test'batsman) can be placed right up there with any knock of the so
called 'one day specialists'.
Regards-Archisman
Chetan Vinchhi
"Archisman" <arch...@yahoo.co.in> wrote in message
news:eb384a5e.04101...@posting.google.com...
>
> You have a point, Abhay. However, in my opinion, Kesarbai's bhairavi
> thumri - 'jaat kahaan ho', her khamaj hori - 'aaj shyam mo-se khelat
> hori' and her bhairavi thumri - 'kaise samjhaaun' are so stunningly
> beautiful
I am with Abhay on this one. Kesarbai's thumris lacked a certain
zeal, a certain warmth you see in thumri specialists like Rasoolan
Bai or Siddheshwari Devi. Kesarbai was good but could not
compare with the "real" thumri singers. OTOH, Faiyaz Khan
could summon that feeling in his renditions.
C
shri kumar
>
> I am with Abhay on this one. Kesarbai's thumris lacked a certain
> zeal, a certain warmth you see in thumri specialists like Rasoolan
> Bai or Siddheshwari Devi. Kesarbai was good but could not
> compare with the "real" thumri singers. OTOH, Faiyaz Khan
> could summon that feeling in his renditions.
A new album of Thumaris by Bhimsen Joshi is realesed.Whats your impression ?
Chetan Vinchhi
"shri kumar" <shr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2151c287.04101...@posting.google.com...
>
> A new album of Thumaris by Bhimsen Joshi is realesed.Whats your impression ?
I haven't heard this one. In general, his Thumri rendition is not on par
with the likes of Faiyaz Khan and Bade Ghulam, let alone true Thumri
specialists. In some of his recordings, he seems to derive too heavily
from recordings of the same piece - e.g. his Jogia Thumri 'piyaa milan
kii aas' released by Chhanda Dhara (along with Lalit IIRC) sounds too
much like Abdul Karim Khan's recording of the piece. Interestingly,
his khayal singing does not have that kind of AKK stamp.
C
Surma Bhopali
> nanhaf...@yahoo.co.in (Surma Bhopali) wrote in message
> > kaahe priit"
>
>
My thanks are due to RJGK-65 quizmasters Abhay and Radha for including
this song in the quiz.
Samik
> We all know Lata is/was
> the best, no arguments here. The HFM world nearly made the "best" the
> "only" option with the exception of her sister Asha. I can't imagine
> HFM music without Asha and with more contribution from more female
> voices it would have been even more colourful. I agree not even one
> tried female singer compares with Lata's prowess in rendition. But
> come on, not every song composed for a female voice is a "manamohanaa
> ba.De jhuuThe". Didn't Sulakshana sound beautiful in "baa.Ndhii re
> kaahe priit" or Hemalata in "a.Nkhiyo.n ke jharokho.n se" or Aarti in
> "shyaam terii bansii"? They sure could have produced more gems.
I think you have a very good point, and I totally agree with you.
But in
my opinion, what caused this unfortunate thing was NOT Lata's
monopoly, (I know that's your opinion, too...as you mentioned later in
your post) but the MD/producer's commercial-mindedness. In Lata, they
found a rare combination of commercial guarantee and artistic
creativity, so they didn't feel the need to look beyond her. Take SDB,
for instance. "If Lata sings I am safe"...what kind of 'safety' is he
referring to ? In the late 60s and 70s S.D.Burman used Lata/Kishore
for almost each and every song (Kishore after 69, that is). I am sure
he was intelligent enough to see that this was harming his variety and
freshness, but he gave preference to commercial security . Not just
him..similar mentality on the part of most other MDs (and
producer/directors who often had their say in this matter... Manna
Dey narrated how Shankar had to fight hard with a producer to give him
a Raj Kapoor song for which the 'safe bet' would be Mukesh), saw the
near-complete hegemony of Rafi in the 60s and Kishore in the 70s.
Surely it wouldn't harm to give --not many, but a few of those songs
to, say, Manna Dey who IMO was woefully under-used in Bollywood ? It
wouldn't, but they didn't bother, because they didn't HAVE TO. We have
to remember that the film industry was never governed by 'sympathy'
(to Manna, or anybody for that matter)..it was governed by pure
commerce. Mohd Rafi himself was the victim of this 'safety first'
attitude in the 70s..(this is me speaking as a 'biased' Rafi-devotee
though...some people disagree here and say that his voice genuinely
deteriorated in the 70s) and if somebody as mighty as him can suffer
so badly, who are Aaarati/Sulakshana/Hemlata ? If the industry were
governed by sympathy, would they let Geeta Dutt die such a tragic
death? Wouldn't they forgive some of her later-year
unprefessionalism/indiscipline etc and contunue to give her at least
some songs ? (that is just my opinion, by the way)
> To me overall output of female voices in Bangla is much more colourful
> and enjoyable with decent contributions from Lata, Asha, Sandhya,
> Madhuri, Aarti, Haimanti, Pratima and many (pure) Rabindra Sangeet
> singers.
True. As Prithviraj pointed out, one particular singer was rarely
repeated in a radio programme. But IMO, even there singers other than
Manna/Hemanta/Sandhya were rather under-used in Film music.
Especially male singers..like Satinath or Manabendra .Fortunately they
had their healthy share of 'non-film' songs which allowed them to
display their talent. IMO, this is a very, very important difference
between Bengali music and Hindi music. One cannot over-emphasise this
point.
Samik
Surma Bhopali
Agree to most of what you say. The industry however doesn't need to be
governed by "sympathy" to make music more diverse. It could have shown
a little more "professionalism" and done some "hardwork".
Professionalism to sincerely look for voice that really suits the
picturisation. And every search requires some hardwork.
> death? Wouldn't they forgive some of her later-year
> unprefessionalism/indiscipline etc and contunue to give her at least
> some songs ? (that is just my opinion, by the way)
>
> > To me overall output of female voices in Bangla is much more colourful
> > and enjoyable with decent contributions from Lata, Asha, Sandhya,
> > Madhuri, Aarti, Haimanti, Pratima and many (pure) Rabindra Sangeet
> > singers.
>
> True. As Prithviraj pointed out, one particular singer was rarely
> repeated in a radio programme. But IMO, even there singers other than
> Manna/Hemanta/Sandhya were rather under-used in Film music.
> Especially male singers..like Satinath or Manabendra .Fortunately they
> had their healthy share of 'non-film' songs which allowed them to
> display their talent. IMO, this is a very, very important difference
> between Bengali music and Hindi music. One cannot over-emphasise this
> point.
It really is a good distinction that has helped many talents survive.
IINW, total sale of Non-Film music far outweighs Film music in
Bengali. Last weekend I was re-compiling my Rabindra Sangeet stock and
was amazed to see the huge singers list in my small collection. It is
a pleasure listening to the wide range of voices -- the raw Debabrata
Biswas... the smooth Hemanta Mukherjee... the dominating Chinmay
Chatterjee... the serene Sagar Sen... the shaking Arghya Sen... the
devine Sumitra Sen... the naughty Purabi... the traditional Suchitra
Mitra and Kanika... the pristine Arundhati... it goes on and on.
shri kumar
Hindi Film Indusrty is not governed by artistic values, it is governed
by monetary values. Why take risk ? not only in field of Music but in
all spheres you will find that some people rule.If a new singer takes
25 recordings why not some who will finish it within 5 ? If one story
of lost son , or two sons one becoming Police and other pickpocket
runs, there would be spate of such stories.Films are made to make
money.Culturaly Bengal is different - In Gujarat only films on
Baharvatiyas ( Outlaws) are made even the name starts with Veer and
ends with Valo !..So to make it easy for themselves -Producers,
Directors, Music Directors and ultimately audience preferred Lata..
Tnhis had a cumuilative effect and Lata , a true professional took
fullest advantage of it..
Prithviraj Dasgupta
> was amazed to see the huge singers list in my small collection. It is
> a pleasure listening to the wide range of voices -- the raw Debabrata
> Biswas... the smooth Hemanta Mukherjee... the dominating Chinmay
> Chatterjee... the serene Sagar Sen... the shaking Arghya Sen... the
> devine Sumitra Sen... the naughty Purabi... the traditional Suchitra
> Mitra and Kanika... the pristine Arundhati... it goes on and on.
It would be interesting to know which songs prompted you
to choose the following adjective-singer pairs:
"dominating Chinmoy" because his forte was (non-
dominating) soft romantic songs.
"shaking Arghya" because there never was much
shaking in his voice (I have heard only his songs
from 1960s, 1970s)
"naughty Purabi" because I am yet to hear a
_naughty_ Rabindrasangeet.
On a related note, I remember reading somewhere that
over last few years Bengali music album sales during
Kabi-pakkho (Tagore's birth anniversary) surpass sales
during any other time of the year including Durga Puja.
-Prithviraj
Surma Bhopali
> nanhaf...@yahoo.co.in (Surma Bhopali) wrote:
> (snipped)
> > Last weekend I was re-compiling my Rabindra Sangeet stock and
> > was amazed to see the huge singers list in my small collection. It is
> > a pleasure listening to the wide range of voices -- the raw Debabrata
> > Biswas... the smooth Hemanta Mukherjee... the dominating Chinmay
> > Chatterjee... the serene Sagar Sen... the shaking Arghya Sen... the
> > devine Sumitra Sen... the naughty Purabi... the traditional Suchitra
> > Mitra and Kanika... the pristine Arundhati... it goes on and on.
>
> It would be interesting to know which songs prompted you
> to choose the following adjective-singer pairs:
>
> "dominating Chinmoy" because his forte was (non-
> dominating) soft romantic songs.
>
perhaps right that his forte was soft romantic songs as most songs
that I have fall in that category. Usually his songs have nice
prelude/interludes, but everything (the instruments, tabla) takes a
back seat when his voice surfaces. It just dominates the whole
environment when it's on. That's how I perceive him at least. That's
true for all the songs I have. As I am writing this, his "jharaa
paataa go" is playing in the back of my mind.
> "shaking Arghya" because there never was much
> shaking in his voice (I have heard only his songs
> from 1960s, 1970s)
>
That's surprising to me because I find his voice shaking even more
than Talat's at times. And I am talking of most songs that I have in
possession. For an example, I can quote "bhaalobeshe sakhii nibhR^ite
jatane".
> "naughty Purabi" because I am yet to hear a
> _naughty_ Rabindrasangeet.
>
Here perhaps I went overboard and used a term for I could not think of
a better term for "cha.nchal", but that's what I felt when I listened
to her "jha.De jaay u.De jaay go" and "phaagun haawaay haawaay". A
gentle reminder that while using the adjectives, I was talking of how
I felt about the *voice in general* and not the songs they rendered.