Another plagarised song of R D Burman
Kamlesh Nanavati
Ravi Krishna wrote:
>
> Folks ,
>
> I was watching old classic "Sujata" ( Nutan - Sunil Dutt) .
>
> While listening to the title music I felt that I have heard this before - and
> WOW - I found the copy. The title music of "Sujata" was copied by R D Burman
> in "Yaadon Ki Barat" in the song "Aap ka kamaran me koi rahta hai ...".
> While the Sujata's title music was in a chorus form and rendered in indian
> style , RDB adapted it to western style and to be fair he also did a wonderful
> job. But then I am talking about ethics of copying not quality of copy.
>
> Now please don't tell me that the title music of Sujata was actually composed
> by RDB himself while SDB was busy watching Mohan Bagan's soccer match.
>
> RDB fans ( fanatics) - your turn please for a pathetic justification on why
> RDB should not be blamed for this.*
*************************************************************
Oh Ravi,
You missed one thing. It was the other way round. When RD was composing the
same music piece, he was suffering from common cold and could not concentrate
on composing the music. And SD came to help him, he was very pleased with
rest of the music composition of the movie and he asked RD if he can try his
hand at it, and then RD said " yes". So it was the only piece in the movie
done by SD and that means it was not a copy, it was original work.
Wasn't that a nice story?
I was just kidddddddddddddddddddddiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggg!
Thanks. I like some of the RD and SD songs too! But SJaikishan comes first,
second Naushad, third is MADANMOHAN.( BTW if 100 songs of Lata and Rafi from
Naushad and 100 songs of Lata & Rafi from MADANMOHAN, MM's are much better.)
Thanks.
Regards.
Ikram Ahmed Khan
Ravi Krishna (rkri...@informix.com) wrote:
: RDB fans ( fanatics) - your turn please for a pathetic justification on why
: RDB should not be blamed for this.
Heck - you provided us the best reason yourself. Whatsamatter? Want in on
the RD club?
: Now please don't tell me that the title music of Sujata was actually composed
: by RDB himself while SDB was busy watching Mohan Bagan's soccer match.
I do believe that it might have been East Bengal vs. Mohd. Sporting. But I
bow before your supreme knowledge of music, o wise one.
:)
Later,
Ikram.
" All in Jest. All in Jest"
-UVR
:)
Anand Tiwari
In article <4t3qnl$g...@news.informix.com>, rkri...@informix.com says...
>
>Folks ,
>
>I was watching old classic "Sujata" ( Nutan - Sunil Dutt) .
>
>While listening to the title music I felt that I have heard this before - and
>WOW - I found the copy. The title music of "Sujata" was copied by R D Burman
>in "Yaadon Ki Barat" in the song "Aap ka kamaran me koi rahta hai ...".
>While the Sujata's title music was in a chorus form and rendered in indian
>style , RDB adapted it to western style and to be fair he also did a wonderful
>job. But then I am talking about ethics of copying not quality of copy.
>
>by RDB himself while SDB was busy watching Mohan Bagan's soccer match.
I think you know a bit too much about the Burman's.It was a revelation
to know that SDB loved to watch Mohun Bagan soccer matches.Maybe you
could provide us some more insight into their personal lives.
BTW you can keep on justifying that RD was good for nothing.I think
it serves as a good past time for you.Keep it up.We all appreciate
your efforts.
regards
Anand
Vish Krishnan
Ravi Krishna (rkri...@informix.com) wrote:
: Folks ,
: I was watching old classic "Sujata" ( Nutan - Sunil Dutt) .
: While listening to the title music I felt that I have heard this before - and
: WOW - I found the copy. The title music of "Sujata" was copied by R D Burman
: in "Yaadon Ki Barat" in the song "Aap ka kamaran me koi rahta hai ...".
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Bengali original for "Aap Ke Kamre..." goes something like "Banda
Gharer Andhakaarey Thaakbo Na", also credited to Rahul Dev Burman. Now
perhaps that too is an act of generosity on dad's part, but if not,
then.................
vish
Ravi Krishna
Folks ,
I was watching old classic "Sujata" ( Nutan - Sunil Dutt) .
While listening to the title music I felt that I have heard this before - and
WOW - I found the copy. The title music of "Sujata" was copied by R D Burman
in "Yaadon Ki Barat" in the song "Aap ka kamaran me koi rahta hai ...".
While the Sujata's title music was in a chorus form and rendered in indian
style , RDB adapted it to western style and to be fair he also did a wonderful
job. But then I am talking about ethics of copying not quality of copy.
Now please don't tell me that the title music of Sujata was actually composed
by RDB himself while SDB was busy watching Mohan Bagan's soccer match.
RDB fans ( fanatics) - your turn please for a pathetic justification on why
Rizwan M. Syed
>While listening to the title music I felt that I have heard this before - and
>WOW - I found the copy. The title music of "Sujata" was copied by R D Burman
>in "Yaadon Ki Barat" in the song "Aap ka kamaran me koi rahta hai ...".
>While the Sujata's title music was in a chorus form and rendered in indian
>style , RDB adapted it to western style and to be fair he also did a wonderful
>Now please don't tell me that the title music of Sujata was actually composed
>by RDB himself while SDB was busy watching Mohan Bagan's soccer match.
>RDB fans ( fanatics) - your turn please for a pathetic justification on why
> RDB should not be blamed for this.
No man.. he used to copy all the time, He had NO talent, all he did was
copy. He copied another SD Burman song in Pukaar. And btw, you know..
I was listening to the classic 'do sitaaro.n ka zamee.n' the other day
and noted that the 3rd note in the 8th line of the song was identical
That RD fella wasn't good for nothing but copying.. I'm sure there are
numerous other such examples, that only a trained, not to mention a
QUALIFIED, ear can catch. :)
Rizwan
Anand Tiwari
>
>I was watching old classic "Sujata" ( Nutan - Sunil Dutt) .
>
>WOW - I found the copy. The title music of "Sujata" was copied by R D Burman
>in "Yaadon Ki Barat" in the song "Aap ka kamaran me koi rahta hai ...".
>While the Sujata's title music was in a chorus form and rendered in indian
>style , RDB adapted it to western style and to be fair he also did a wonderful
>
>by RDB himself while SDB was busy watching Mohan Bagan's soccer match.
Mr Ravi Krishna in a reply to this post states that SDB was a great fan of
soccer and of Mohun Bagan in particular.IMHO he was a fan of the East Bengal
club.Also he sternly asks me a lesser mortal (for he himself states that
he is more informed ) to shut up.
Sure Mr Krishna you are more "informed".I have no doubts about it.But it
would do you better to be little more tolerant and refrain from making
needless comparisons between MD's which serve no purpose.
regards
Anand
Ravi Krishna
Subject: Re: Another plagarised song of R D Burman
From: an...@cegt201.bradley.edu (Anand Tiwari)
Date: 1996/07/24
Message-Id: <4t5hpl$p...@lex.zippo.com>
References: <4t3qnl$g...@news.informix.com>
Organization: Zippo
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.misc
In article <4t3qnl$g...@news.informix.com>, rkri...@informix.com says...
>
>Folks ,
>
>I was watching old classic "Sujata" ( Nutan - Sunil Dutt) .
>
>While listening to the title music I felt that I have heard this before - and
>WOW - I found the copy. The title music of "Sujata" was copied by R D Burman
>in "Yaadon Ki Barat" in the song "Aap ka kamaran me koi rahta hai ...".
>While the Sujata's title music was in a chorus form and rendered in indian
>style , RDB adapted it to western style and to be fair he also did a wonderful
>job. But then I am talking about ethics of copying not quality of copy.
>
>Now please don't tell me that the title music of Sujata was actually composed
>by RDB himself while SDB was busy watching Mohan Bagan's soccer match.
>
>RDB fans ( fanatics) - your turn please for a pathetic justification on why
> RDB should not be blamed for this.
I think you know a bit too much about the Burman's.It was a revelation
to know that SDB loved to watch Mohun Bagan soccer matches.Maybe you
could provide us some more insight into their personal lives.
BTW you can keep on justifying that RD was good for nothing.I think
it serves as a good past time for you.Keep it up.We all appreciate
your efforts.
regards
Anand
1. SDB's passion for soccer is well known. I think it has been mentioned in
many articles / books. I have also read that SDB use to be a ardent
supporter of the one of the 3 soccer clubs of Calcutta. I have forgotten
which one is that.
If you are not informed or not in the habit of reading then at least shut up
and do not doubt other's credibility who are more informed than you.
2. It seems you are another RDB fan. I also like his music but can't stand
his copying disease. What I have written above is correct and you can verify
it by watching Sujata. Too bad if you can't digest some unpalatable truth
about RDB.
Pradeep Dubey
In article <4t5d4p$d...@NNTP.MsState.Edu>, riz...@sparco.com (Rizwan M. Syed) writes:
|> In <4t3qnl$g...@news.informix.com> rkri...@informix.com (Ravi Krishna) writes:
|>
|>
|> >WOW - I found the copy. The title music of "Sujata" was copied by R D Burman
|> >in "Yaadon Ki Barat" in the song "Aap ka kamaran me koi rahta hai ...".
|> >While the Sujata's title music was in a chorus form and rendered in indian
|> >style , RDB adapted it to western style and to be fair he also did a wonderful
|> >by RDB himself while SDB was busy watching Mohan Bagan's soccer match.
|> >RDB fans ( fanatics) - your turn please for a pathetic justification on why
|> > RDB should not be blamed for this.
While listening to the "Isle of Capri" Frank Sinatra (?) song,
"It was on the Isle of Capri that I saw her....", I felt that I
have heard this before. The mukhaDa of this was COPIED (NOTE: WITHOUT
EVEN A SLIGHT ATTEMPT TO ADAPT IT TO INDIAN ROOTS) in the following
'hundred-times-better-than-RDB-MD' (i.e., madan mohan) song from
'memsahib': "dil dil se milakar dekho". MM did not adapt it to
Indian style and did the least IQ job of 'copying' it. Now please
don't tell me that MM was busy commanding Indian Army against
China while he had to finish this movie. MM fans (fanatics) -
your turn please for a pathetic justification on why
MM should not be ostracized from RMIM for this.
Pradeep
:-):-)
Omar Khayyam
In article <4t3qnl$g...@news.informix.com>, rkri...@informix.com (Ravi
Krishna) wrote:
|Folks ,
|
|I was watching old classic "Sujata" ( Nutan - Sunil Dutt) .
|
|While listening to the title music I felt that I have heard this before - and
|WOW - I found the copy. The title music of "Sujata" was copied by R D Burman
|in "Yaadon Ki Barat" in the song "Aap ka kamaran me koi rahta hai ...".
|While the Sujata's title music was in a chorus form and rendered in indian
|style , RDB adapted it to western style and to be fair he also did a wonderful
|job. But then I am talking about ethics of copying not quality of copy.
|
|Now please don't tell me that the title music of Sujata was actually composed
|by RDB himself while SDB was busy watching Mohan Bagan's soccer match.
|
|RDB fans ( fanatics) - your turn please for a pathetic justification on why
| RDB should not be blamed for this.
In the early years when RDB used to be his father's assistant, he composed
many tunes credited to SDB. Indeed, some of the songs of 'Aradhana' were
actually composed by RDB. So it could be conjectured that the title music
of 'Sujata' was actually RDB's composition.
--
Omar Khayyam
Ravi Krishna
pra...@watson.ibm.com (Pradeep Dubey) wrote:-
> While listening to the "Isle of Capri" Frank Sinatra (?) song,
> "It was on the Isle of Capri that I saw her....", I felt that I
> have heard this before. The mukhaDa of this was COPIED (NOTE: WITHOUT
> EVEN A SLIGHT ATTEMPT TO ADAPT IT TO INDIAN ROOTS) in the following
> 'hundred-times-better-than-RDB-MD' (i.e., madan mohan) song from
> 'memsahib': "dil dil se milakar dekho". MM did not adapt it to
> Indian style and did the least IQ job of 'copying' it. Now please
> don't tell me that MM was busy commanding Indian Army against
> China while he had to finish this movie. MM fans (fanatics) -
> your turn please for a pathetic justification on why
> MM should not be ostracized from RMIM for this.
> Pradeep
Could you give some more proof of MM copying. Let's take a count of number
of songs MM , SDB or RDB copied. The result was tell all.
Now don't tell me that copying rarely ( less < 5% ) is as big as a crime as
copying regulary ( around 25% ).
By the way my statement that MM is 100 times better than RDB is something to
do with the quality of their songs ( I mean their original songs).
I am not biased towards RDB. It is only that among all 'greats' he has
committed the crime of copying too many times , thus setting a trend that was
later on continued by Bappi Lahiri , Anand Millind , Nadeem Shravan.
Aalop Suresh Shah
Anand Tiwari (an...@cegt201.bradley.edu) wrote:
: In article <4t3qnl$g...@news.informix.com>, rkri...@informix.com says...
: >
: >Folks ,
: >
: >I was watching old classic "Sujata" ( Nutan - Sunil Dutt) .
: >
: >WOW - I found the copy. The title music of "Sujata" was copied by R D Burman
: >in "Yaadon Ki Barat" in the song "Aap ka kamaran me koi rahta hai ...".
: >While the Sujata's title music was in a chorus form and rendered in indian
: >style , RDB adapted it to western style and to be fair he also did a wonderful
: >job. But then I am talking about ethics of copying not quality of copy.
: >Now please don't tell me that the title music of Sujata was actually composed
: >by RDB himself while SDB was busy watching Mohan Bagan's soccer match.
: I think you know a bit too much about the Burman's.It was a revelation
: to know that SDB loved to watch Mohun Bagan soccer matches.Maybe you
: could provide us some more insight into their personal lives.
: BTW you can keep on justifying that RD was good for nothing.I think
: it serves as a good past time for you.Keep it up.We all appreciate
: your efforts.
: regards
:
: Anand
Well said. That guy is desperately trying to prove that all other
MDs were much much better than RDB and that RDB was a master copycat.
--
Aalop
( aa...@cse.iitb.ernet.in )
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aalop S. Shah, Mtech-II,
Department of Computer Science & Engineering,
IIT, Bombay, India.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vinod Arekar
Sar jo teraa chakraye was RDB's tune...
So it's quite possible that SDB used
RDB for title music of Sujata...
Vinod
Pavan Kumar Desikan
Vinod Arekar (wen...@perelandra.cms.udel.edu) wrote:
: Sar jo teraa chakraye was RDB's tune...
: So it's quite possible that SDB used
: RDB for title music of Sujata...
: Vinod
I am tired and sick of hearing the "conjectures" that RDB might have
composed song XYZ which is actually credited to SDB. These rumours are
baseless and should be stopped. Someday someone might claim that SDB did
not compose any music, all the music credited to him was composed by RDB!
The rate at which RDB supporters quickly claim the song to be RDB's makes
me fear that such a scenario is just round the corner.
The only "known??" instances of RDB being used by SDB are
"Sar jo teraa chakraaye" which someone said is a joint composition of Guru
Dutt and RDB. Does anyone know SDB's comments on this?
and Aradhana which is believed to have been composed by RDB. I must admit
that the songs in Aradhana lack the softness of SDB songs and have a
distinct RDB touch.
and the status now is except for these two instances which are on the
suspect list (remember that SDB was not given a fair chance to defend
himself), *ALL* other songs credited to SDB are by SDB and by no one else.
Pavan
PS: How about some reverse conjecturing
The songs of Aandhi, Ijaazat, etc were actually composed by SDB but used by
RDB!
--
Pavan Kumar Desikan
Department of Computer Science, Duke University, Durham, NC 27708-0129
Internet: p...@cs.duke.edu
HTTP : http://www.cs.duke.edu/~pkd
Nitin Sharma
Preetham Gopalaswamy (pree...@connectinc.com) wrote:
: Your conjecture is actually accurate. There are 2 songs in "Amar Prem" which
: are sung by SDB, the first is "Doli me biThaai ke kahaar" and the other is a
: short piece sung when Sharmila is at the river breaking her bangles on the
Oh, there was a second one too. Never heard that one.
Dont recall the Amar prem HMV cassette having it?
: death of her husband. Not having seen the film in a very long time, I do not
: remember the latter tune. Both these were composed and sung by SDB himself.
Actually, I got a personal email from Pallab Bhattacharya, which I am
posting (with perm; he didnt save a copy), which says the smae.
-----------------
\quote
Message-Id: <1996073020...@bohr.physics.purdue.edu>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:34:13 -0500 (EST)
From: "Pallab B. Bhattacharyya" <pa...@physics.purdue.edu>
Subject: Re: Another plagarised song of R D Burman
In article <DvDCE...@beaver.cs.washington.edu> you write:
> May be partly because the song was sung by SD himself - its hard to
>imagine RD directing his father to sing it this way and not that.
>
> any comments and thoughts on this?
>
> -nitin
>
Hi Nitin,
SD has a Bengali version of the same song sung by himself. He also has a song
(in Bengali again) with the same tune (1st stanza) as TUNE O RANGILE KAISAA
JAADU KIYAA. Same for KHAALI HAATH SHAAM AAYI (however this tune very closely
resembles to a song written by Kazi Nazrul Islam). Don't know who set tunes
to these songs. However, some of SD's songs can be traced back to Rabindra
sangeet, Nazrulgeeti in my limited knowledge. So we may never know (unless we
do a comprehensive study) the origin.
Thanks,
...Pallab (A BIG RDB fan who always will believe that SDB had a BIG influence
on Pancham)
GO PAES.....
\unquote
-----------
-nitin
Jairaj, Vinod
HI!
One song which was composed by RDB but credited to SDB is AE
MERI TOPI PALAT KE, from Funtoosh. The source is an article from the
magazine SUN way back in the 80s.
Vinod
P.S:- I'm a confirmed SDB fan!
Preetham Gopalaswamy
Nitin Sharma (ni...@cs.washington.edu) writes :
> Jokes apart, an RD composition that seems to bear the SD touch, and is
> quite unlike RD, is
>
> "doli men bithhaye ke kahaar.." from amar prem.
>
> May be partly because the song was sung by SD himself - its hard to
> imagine RD directing his father to sing it this way and not that.
>
> any comments and thoughts on this?
Your conjecture is actually accurate. There are 2 songs in "Amar Prem" which
are sung by SDB, the first is "Doli me biThaai ke kahaar" and the other is a
short piece sung when Sharmila is at the river breaking her bangles on the
death of her husband. Not having seen the film in a very long time, I do not
remember the latter tune. Both these were composed and sung by SDB himself.
As to RD tunes that were used by SD, the only one that I knew of was "Ae meri
Topi palaTke aa" from "Funtoosh". Even then, I think the task of expanding a
tune to a full song with orchestration, etc. was probably SDB's. I was not
aware of "Sar jo tera chakraaye" being an RD composition till the post from
yesterday.
P
Nitin Sharma
Pavan Kumar Desikan (p...@cs.duke.edu) wrote:
:
: PS: How about some reverse conjecturing
: The songs of Aandhi, Ijaazat, etc were actually composed by SDB but used by
: RDB!
Jokes apart, an RD composition that seems to bear the SD touch, and is
quite unlike RD, is
"doli men bithhaye ke kahaar.." from amar prem.
May be partly because the song was sung by SD himself - its hard to
imagine RD directing his father to sing it this way and not that.
any comments and thoughts on this?
-nitin
Ikram Ahmed Khan
: PS: How about some reverse conjecturing
: The songs of Aandhi, Ijaazat, etc were actually composed by SDB but used by
C'est possible with Aandhi... Not so with Ijaazat. Such seemingly tuneless
melodies to fit the free verse of Gullu... I doubt whether Gullu wrote the
lyrics of Ijaazat, to fit any tune, the way he had to do with SDB and 'mora
gora ang lai le'. { I hasten to add that guriji made a nice posting about
this some time back!}
Btw, two Gullu song lyrics for your pleasure
'phir kisi shaaKH ne pheNki chhaaoN
phir kisi shaaKH ne haath hilaaya'
shaaKH= branch of a tree ... {Gullu and Ashish Bokil might know whether it
is a metaphor for something else..:) }
Another one from the same film, Maya Memsaab....
'is dil meN bas-kar dekho toh,
yeh shaher baDa purana hai'
The above one is especially interesting to me. Loosely based on Madame
Bovary, that film. All about the various loves of the leading female
character. It seems to me, that in the above song, the lead character is
inviting somebody to make a place for himself in her heart. And then she
says, yeh shaher baDa puraana hai?? Roughly meaning, that my heart has been
thickly populated by various folk for some time now?? Methought, that Gullu
is getting too close to the character now.... :)
Flames, and that 'tapli' on the head {kilaasick Bombay touch} besides
explanations are most welcome. :) :)
Later,
Ikram.
z
Ashoke Kumar Sinha
Nitin Sharma wrote:
>
> Preetham Gopalaswamy (pree...@connectinc.com) wrote:
>
> : Your conjecture is actually accurate. There are 2 songs in "Amar Prem" which
> : are sung by SDB, the first is "Doli me biThaai ke kahaar" and the other is a
> : short piece sung when Sharmila is at the river breaking her bangles on the
>
> Dont recall the Amar prem HMV cassette having it?
>
> : remember the latter tune. Both these were composed and sung by SDB himself.
>
> posting (with perm; he didnt save a copy), which says the smae.
>
> -----------------
> \quote
>
> Message-Id: <1996073020...@bohr.physics.purdue.edu>
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:34:13 -0500 (EST)
> From: "Pallab B. Bhattacharyya" <pa...@physics.purdue.edu>
> Subject: Re: Another plagarised song of R D Burman
>
> In article <DvDCE...@beaver.cs.washington.edu> you write:
> >imagine RD directing his father to sing it this way and not that.
> >
> > any comments and thoughts on this?
> >
> > -nitin
> >
>
> SD has a Bengali version of the same song sung by himself. He also has a song
> (in Bengali again) with the same tune (1st stanza) as TUNE O RANGILE KAISAA
> JAADU KIYAA. Same for KHAALI HAATH SHAAM AAYI (however this tune very closely
> resembles to a song written by Kazi Nazrul Islam). Don't know who set tunes
> to these songs. However, some of SD's songs can be traced back to Rabindra
> sangeet, Nazrulgeeti in my limited knowledge. So we may never know (unless we
> do a comprehensive study) the origin.
> Thanks,
> ...Pallab (A BIG RDB fan who always will believe that SDB had a BIG influence
> on Pancham)
> GO PAES.....
>
> \unquote
> -----------
>
> -nitin
===========================
In many Hindi songs RD Burman used SD Burman's composition. But most of
the time he just took the first two or three lines of the tune and the
rest he composed by himself. Such as in "Ijazaat", the mukhrda of "Khaali
haath shaam ayi" was taken from SD's Bengali song "Malakhani chhilo
haat-e jhore tobu jhore na". But the rest of the song was RD's own
composition. Some more examples :-
1) "Mithe bol bole" (Kinara) - "Madhu Brindabon-e dol-e Shyam-Rai".
2) "Tuney yeh rangeele kaisa jadoo kiya" (Kudrat) - "Haay ki kori ei
mano niya".
3) "Manchali o manchali, kaun si hai yeh gali" (Barsat Ki Ek Raat)
- "Sundori lo sundori".
There is also example where RD lifted a complete song originally
composed by SD, namely "Jab bhi koi kangna bole payal khanak jaaye" of
Shaukeen. I cannot remember the exact lyrics of the original Bengali
song, but it is something like this: "Chikon paaye rinik jhinik payel
khani baje."
SD himself used some Rabindrasangeet and Nazrulgeeti tunes in his
compostions. "Tere mere milan ki yeh raina" (Abhimaan) is taken from the
Rabindrasangeet "Jodi tare nai chini go" - but here only the first two
lines have been lifted. On the other hand SD lifted the whole tune of
"Sedin dujan-e dulechhinu bone, phoolodore bandha jhulona" (another
Rabindrasangeet) - unfortunately I cannot remember the name of the film
or the lyrics of the Hindi song, all I can remember that it was sung by
Suraiya. In the film Meri Surat Teri Aankhen, "Poochhon na kaise maine
rain beetayi" is a copy from the Nazrulgeeti "Arun-kanti ke go
jogi-bhikharee" - the whole tune was copied in this case.
But these do not take their credit away. They have composed so
many good tunes so that even if we do not count their copies there will
be enough to enjoy all through our lives. Moreover, I am quite happy that
it was SD/RD who copied these tunes than people like Bappi Lahiri.
Ashoke.