RJGK 57: Beats on the unbeaten tracks - Answers and Results [LONG]
Preeti Ranjan Panda
RJGK 57: Beats on the unbeaten tracks - Answers and Results
(Theme: Songs set to Roopak taal and Jhaptaal)
Hi RMIMers,
RJGK (RMIM Jhim Geeton Ki) - 57 has concluded, and this post
summarises the answers, results, and comments of the participants. I
was delighted to receive 21 entries from the following people, listed
in order of my receiving the entries.
Vijay Kumar
Abhay Phadnis
Uday Patel
Tabassum Hijazi
Kishore Kumar
Vulcan Rawat
Rahul Upadhyaya
Pratibha Gupta
Vandana Vidwans
Pavan Jha
Srinivas Ganti
Balaji and Malini Murthy
Chetan Vinchhi
Anil Hingorani
Satish Kalra
Neha Desai
Madhu Sudan and Suman
U. V. Ravindra and Richa
Arunabha Roy
Surajit Bose (Non-competitive)
Ajay Nerurkar
My sincere thanks to all of you for participating in the quiz. I was
not too sure about the kind of response the quiz would get because of
the technical nature of the theme; overall, I am very happy with the
level of participation. I considered my objective largely fulfilled
when many people commented that they found the introduction
informative.
A word about the song selection criteria for the quiz. Above
everything else, I wanted to include no more than 3-4 "difficult"
songs. I know "difficult" is hard to define, but it is safe to say
that a song is hard to get hold of if it has not been released
commercially in recent times. For the rest, I wanted to choose very
popular and well known songs. To that extent, I think this objective
was met, from the responses I received from people. I wanted to
restrict the number of clues to 25, but it got extended by two for
reasons I don't remember :-)
While well known songs set to Roopak taal are available in abundance,
Jhaptaal is a little rarer. Hence, while I was able to highlight what
I thought were interesting Roopak compositions of several music
directors, the distribution got skewed in the Jhaptaal section
...which brings us to the subject of music directors' taal
preferences. Shankar-Jaikishan have many popular compositions in both
Roopak and Jhaptaal. Did Naushad and Madan Mohan ever compose in
Jhaptaal? (I think I noticed one Jhaptaal song in Naushad's "Aathwaan
sur" album, but am unsure) Among Anil Biswas songs I have heard, I
could find several Jhaptaals but no Roopak. Ravi Shankar's
compositions strike me as being rich in rhythmic variety, even within
the very few soundtracks I have heard. What about RDB? I have heard he
was a master of rhythm; any filmi examples to support that claim? I
could only locate "ghar aaja ghir aaye badra saawariya" set to Roopak,
which I didn't include in the quiz mainly because I didn't have the
song :-)
I made no conscious attempt to balance songs among singers, which
explains the slightly lop-sided statistics, although not unreasonable
considering their relative number of popular songs in these taals. In
a different thread, I have posted the list of candidate songs in these
taals. Perhaps Rafi got under-represented somewhat. There are some
very popular songs I omitted (e.g, "kehdo koi na kare yahaan pyaar"
and "ishaaron ishaaron mein") primarily because these songs have a
14-beat rhythmic accompaniment I didn't want to include too many of
these; technically they may or may not be Roopak. Mukesh featured in
five of the clues, but not for the reason you are thinking, you
naughty boys! :-) As the taal-list shows, Mukesh clearly dominates the
Jhaptaal space and that would manifest itself in the song selection
somehow. (Of course, the reason Mukesh dominates the list in the first
place is probably that I listen to his songs more carefully :-)
Here are some general comments participants had about the quiz. In
addition, I received a lot of feedback from Surajit Bose and Ajay
Nerurkar, who reviewed and earlier version of the quiz, but
unfortunately, I don't have them in print because they were made in
person or over the phone. I have grouped the comments into the
following topics:
1. Theme for the quiz and general comments
2. Difficulty level
3. Song selection
Following are general comments regarding the theme of the quiz.
[Arunabha]
Thanks a lot for the RJGK . The write-up is simply superb ! Since
taal is something I'm really terrible at grasping, your introduction
provided me something to read not simply for pleasure but also
informative value. You've done an admirable job of explaining the
taals, something that I think is quite hard to achieve. Kudos to you
on that ! That aside, the very task of compiling an RJGK based on
songs set to a particular taal is an immensely ambitious project. It's
all the more commendable that the result is so appealing.
[Vijay]
Given the trend to have the tune composed first and the lyrics written
last, I think it is to the lyricists credit, too, if they managed to
write songs conforming to a off-the-beaten-track beat. Interesting and
informative intro. post. Thanks.
[PRP]
Yes, the lyrical structure is very significant in the choice of the
rhythm, and the interplay between the poetic metre and rhythmic
structure is fascinating. I avoided discussion of this matter
primarily because of my lack of knowledge of poetic metre and its
technical aspects. Anyone care to elaborate? (or do an RJGK on this
:-) ?
[Tabassum]
Thanks for interesting quiz. The intro was quite informative. Though I
couldnt use those technical details to crack the clues, I found quiz
easy enough, songs were popular and enough PStats given.
[Nani]
Ever since you announced your RJGK quiz on jhaptal songs, I have been
looking forward to it... But jhaptal-based quiz sounds a really grand
idea. I wonder whether Pradeep Lad's rmim post gave you that idea, or
you were already toying with it. Thank you for choosing this theme ,
rather than any singer, lyricist, actor or MD. I like the idea SO
... SO MUCH.
[Pavan Jha]
Well kya kahoon quiz ke baare mein .... A real treat... I am not one
of the Muzic Techies on the group... I have a very little
understanding of technical aspects of Muzic.... can play a taali not
a taal but My heart beats for it... Your introduction was a superb
writeup and it has encouraged me to get into technical aspects of
muzic.... I am ready for a dive.....
...It was a real good time solving the quiz.... Kudos to your
effort!!!
[PRP]
BTW, taali and taal are not exactly unrelated! :-)
[Vandana]
Nice and very informative writeup on taal. I really enjoyed the quiz.
[Srinivas]
Thanks for a great quiz.The write up(part 1) was excellent.
[Balaji and Malini]
Nice to see a quiz on RMIM after a long time...
We must congratulate you on being bold enough to choose such a theme.
This might actually prevent you from receiving too many entries. But
hopefully, the other information (which there is plenty of) will get
more people to participate. It certainly made things very easy for
us. We certainly did enjoy the quiz very much.
Having gone through such exercise in the past we can understand how
much work you must have put into this. A theme like this really needs
a lot of work. And the effort does show in the song selection. Please
accept our sincere congratulations.
[Chetan]
Interesting theme, really enjoyed the introduction and enjoyed some :)
of the songs. Thanks a lot for putting together a wonderful quiz.
[Satish]
I am totally ignorant about the taals/raagas, etc. So it was an
educative quiz for me. Even now, if you ask me, I could not tell you
the difference between one taal to the other. But I do enjoy good
music, whatever taal it is set in.
[Neha]
You wrote a great quiz and made it easy too. A wonderful quiz after a
long long time, one that I felt compelled to send an entry to...
Thanks for such a enjoyable, interesting and educating quiz.
And wouldnt it be cool if you posted the results before the RJGK56
results come out:).
[Madhu and Suman]
... learnt a bit or two (or should I say 'beat' or two) about roopak
and jhaptaal. I started counting the beats in some songs that you have
listed, and after a while I got so engrossed that I forgot what song I
was listening to! :-) Anyways, good job on the writeup.
[Vijay]
Since this quiz, I have caught myself trying to latch on to the "taal"
of every song I hear. But I'm woefully inadequate at that. I am still
principally a "lyrics" oriented guy and the tune just happens to be
the context within which I receive those lyrics. [...] I keep
promising myself that I will learn that aspect, too, but right now,
life has its own way of dealing with such noble intentions. Perhaps
one day... Till then, I shall bumble along tap-tapping and getting it
wrong.
The quiz turned out to be quite easy, with the average score being
23/27. Here are some comments people had about the difficulty level.
[Abhay]
Thanks for a good quiz! Not too easy, but not impossibly difficult either!
[Chetan]
If I were to comment on the difficulty level, I think it was a tad bit
on the easy side. I mean some songs were easy to guess, but others
were harder. I have no guesses for two of the clues, although I feel I
should have gotten both of them :( An excuse for one of the clues is
that there were too many Mukesh songs and I couldn't take one more :)
[Neha]
And your quiz didnt have to be difficult to impart knowledge, I like
that. You have done justice to the theme you chose. Great!!
The only song I really really had to hunt for was the NARTAKI song by
Pankaj Mullick. I even listened to my LP to get the song. And all of
YATRIK, ZALZALA, ANJANGARH songs that I had but were so far unheard by
me....It was fun.
[Madhu and Suman]
Got the films names for some other songs (from generously provided
hints in the clues :-), but couldn't get the songs coz I don't have
the cassettes :-) Mukesh abounds in the quiz, but that is expected.
Finally, some comments about the song selection in the quiz.
[Arunabha]
The song selection is nice , though I am ashamed that the clue you
pronounce as "the easiest one to crack" still eludes me.:) I was
especially thrilled to find songs like "so gayii chaa.ndanii"
featured. I was expecting some songs like "dil lagaakar ham ye
samajhe" and "ghar aa jaa ghir aaye badaraa" which announce their taal
loud and clear, to even the most taal-deaf ears (mine !) to appear,
and was surprised they didn't. Anyway, I hope you have a good turnout.
[Vijay]
Nice distribution and nice songs in this quiz.
[Jas Parmar]
I enjoyed reading the rjgk 57 quiz on rupak/jhaptaal you posted
recently on rmic. nice selection of songs.
[Satish]
I hope someone else, too, mentions that there are not too many songs
in the quiz from the 70-'s and 80's, except the Sharmeelii, Kora
Kaaghaz, and Razia Sultaan ones. At a quick glance, more than 50% of
the songs are from the 40's and 50's, a few from the 60's, and the
rest as mentioned above.
[Surajit]
It really was a good quiz. The degree of difficulty was about right;
all the songs are easy enough to track down if one puts one's mind to
it. Interesting theme.
Here are the answers for the clues in RJGK 57, with embedded comments
from the participants. My comments are preceded by [PRP]. "Score"
indicates how many entries got it right, out of 20 competitive ones.
ROOPAK
======
[Aside: In some of the songs of the Roopak section (#4, #9, #13, #15),
one can hear the percussion playing a 14-beat rhythmic cycle.
Technically, the bols played are those of neither roopak nor
deepchandi, but I have clubbed these songs under roopak anyway, on the
grounds that the melodic structure is similar to that of roopak
songs.]
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#1
teri baat baat hai dilnasheen
koi tujhse badhkar nahin haseen
hain kali kali mein jo mastiyaan
teri aankh ka wo khumaar hai
An immensely popular Talat Mahmood song composed by Sajjad, the song
pops up every time the list of plagiarised songs is reinvented on
RMIM. Rafi's "tujhe kya sunaaun main dilruba", composed by Madan
Mohan, which was inspired by this song, has a similar tune and
rhythm. Yet another Rafi song that has a lyrically similar theme and
is identical in rhythmic structure is "zara sun haseena o naazneen"
(KAUN APNA KAUN PARAYA, Ravi).
Song: ye hawa ye raat chaandani teri ik ada pe nisaar hai
Film: Sangdil
Singer: Talat Mahmood
Music: Sajjad Hussain
Lyrics: Rajinder Krishan
Score: 19/20
[PRP]
This song, in spite of its popularity, continues to amuse during
quizzes: one participant confidently answered "tujhe kya sunaaon main
dilruba" in spite of the way the sub-clue is phrased :-) ...but
quickly corrected it.
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#2
udte panchhi ka thikaana
<chirp chirp.......>
udte panchhi ka thikaana, mera na koi jahaan
na dagar hai na khabar hai, jaana hai mujhko kahaan
ban ke sapna hamsafar ke saath rah gaya
Did you keep track of the <chirp>'s ? :-) This may be the easiest
clue, but is of substantial tutorial value - the chirps can form an
important reference in pinning down the 3-2-2 rhythm - count one beat
for each chirp - the chirps begin at the first beat of one cycle, and
die off near the end of the next. Continue the counting for the
remainder of the song. Happy chirping!
Song: mera jeevan kora kaaghaz kora hi rah gayaa
Film: Kora Kaagaz
Singer: Kishore Kumar
Music: Kalyanji-Anandji
Lyrics: M. G. Hashmat
Score: 19/20
[Surajit]
Goes to show that just because a song is in an unusual taal, it isn't
necessarily a good song 8-). Well, as I've said before, at least KA
were consistently mediocre.
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#3
tere daaman se jo aaye un hawaaon ko salaam
choom loon main us zubaan ko jis pe aaye tera naam
sab se pyaari subah teri sab se rangeen teri shaam
Several years ago, there used to be an on-line music quiz named
Flo-Jo quiz (after the quiz-masters) in which RMIMers participated over
the IRC (Internet Relay Chat). In one such quiz, during a round
similar to the RJGK's, the clue was the second stanza of this song:
"maa ka dil ban ke kabhi seene se lag jaata hai tu
aur kabhi nanhi si beti ban ke yaad aa jaata hai tu"
To which an Aatank-vadi dude came up with an instant answer:
"kabhi bandar ban ke ped par chadh jaata hai tu!"
The Flo-Jo quizzes were fun while they lasted.
Song: ai mere pyaare watan
Film: Kabuliwala
Singer: Manna Dey
Music: Salil Choudhary
Lyrics: Prem Dhawan
Score: 20/20
[Surajit]
This song showed up on a tape I have called "patriotic songs from
films." Always makes me chuckle, because IIRC the "pyaaraa vatan" in
question is Afghanistan. (I guess it's still a patriotic song, just
not for the patria you'd expect.)
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#4
kya qayaamat hai, kya museebat hai
kah nahin sakte, kiska armaan hai
zindagi jaise khoyi khoyi hai, hairaan hairaan hai
ye zameen chup hai, aasmaan chup hai
phir ye dhadkan si, chaarsu kya hai
The song is marked by the distinct accompaniment of the santoor all
through, except for a brief stretch before the line "ye zameen chup
hai, aasmaan chup hai" above, when there is an abrupt and overpowering
silence in anticipation of the words. This is Lata singing a Khayyam
composition.
Song: ai dil-e-naadaan, ai dil-e-naadaan, aarzoo kya hai, justjoo kya hai
Film: Razia Sultan
Singer: Lata
Music: Khayyam
Lyrics: Jaan Nisar Akhtar
Score: 20/20
[Satish]
Ai dil-e-naadaan is an example that melody can still be created,
composed, and rendered, even in the 80's.
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#5
maangi khushiyaan magar gham mila pyaar mein
dard hi bhar diya dil ke har taar mein
aaj koi naheen mera sansaar mein
chhod kar chal diye mujhko manjhdaar mein
haae teer-e-nazar ka nishaana hoon main
This Mukesh song features in a brilliant soundtrack by Sardar
Malik. The title song, also by Mukesh (plus a short version by Rafi),
is a benchmark example of soulful singing. Another possible candidate
for this RJGK from the film is an Asha solo in Jhaptaal, but the
featured song is the better known. While on the topic of Roopak taal
songs from the Sardar Malik-Mukesh combination, I have fond memories
of two others - "wahi udi udi ghataaen hain, ek tum nahin ho to kuchh
nahin" (MERA GHAR MERE BACHCHE) and "sun chaand meri ye daastaan, main
kahoon tujhe ya ki na kahoon" (NAAG JYOTI).
Song: haan deewana hoon main, gham ka maara hua ek begaana hoon main
Film: Saranga
Singer: Mukesh
Music: Sardar Malik
Lyrics: Bharat Vyas
Score: 20/20
[Arunabha]
Mukesh is simply wonderful in this soundtrack. His voice in this
soundtrack is truly better than it usually sounds :)
[Surajit]
Saranga crops up all over RJGK and RMIM these days.
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#6
so ja tu aise mori sajaniyaa
sajiya pe soye jaise dulhaniya
chanda ka teeka maathe lagaaun
taaron ki maala tujhko pihnaaun
tohe sulaaun ga ga ke lori
jhoola jhulaaun nindiya ko tori
This lori is a P-statistician's delight - the P-stats narrow down the
search space considerably. We have Hemant Kumar singing under
Naushad's music direction. Lata joins in the second stanza and sings
in tandem. Several loris tuned to Roopak taal come to mind, most
prominent being "aa jaa ri aa, nindiyaa tu aa" (Lata, DO BIGHA ZAMEEN,
Salil). Other memorable ones are "so jaa tu mere raajdulaare so jaa"
(Talat, JAWAB, Nashad), "chanda se pyaare" (Lata-Manna, SUVARNA
SUNDARI, Adi Narayan Rao), and "aa ja ri nindiya tu aake na ja (mukhda
only)" (Noor Jahan, ZEENAT, Hafiz Khan).
[Although the percussion accompaniment is playing a 7-beat cycle, Ajay
indicates that this song is set to deepchandi (possibly because the
skipped 3rd and 7th beats are strong pointers to deepchandi taal).]
Song: chandan ka palna, resham ki dori, jhoolan jhulaaun nindiya ko tori
Film: Shabab
Singer: Hemant, Lata
Music: Naushad
Lyrics: Shakeel Badayuni
Score: 18/20
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#7
yaad kar toone kaha tha pyaar se sansaar hai
ham jo haare dil ki baazi ye teri hi haar hai
sun ye kya kehti hai paayal na ja re na ja, roko koi
The trailing "roko koi" should immediately give the answer away (as if
it wasn't evident already). One of Lata's favourite Shankar-Jaikishan
compositions. This Raj Kapoor film also had Lata's voice reaching for
the skies with the words "aa ja re" in a duet with Mukesh. Halfway
through the 20th century, the Ganga was still associated with purity
and was uttered with a sense of pride, as is evident from this movie's
title. Not for too long. A few decades down the time axis RK himself
would come up with RAM TERI GANGA MAILI.
Song: o basanti pavan paagal, na ja re na ja, roko koi
Film: Jis desh mein ganga behti hai
Singer: Lata
Music: Shankar-Jaikishan
Lyrics: Shailendra
Score: 20/20
[Arunabha]
You could have substituted this clue with just
................................ roko koi_ii :)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
#8
na kisi ke dil ki hoon aarzoo
na kisi ki nazar ki hoon justjoo
main wo phool hoon jo udaas ho
na bahaar aaye to kya karoon
Madan Mohan springs a surprise by offering not one, but two Roopak
compositions in Lata's voice in this soundtrack (the other one does
find mention elsewhere in this RJGK). The story goes that Naushad was
so impressed by the featured song that he could give his entire
repertoire just for this single song.
The RMIM-related story goes that a puzzled Naushad fan wondered -
"What's so great about this number?". He was subsequently enlightened
- "Naushad didn't mean the song was great. He merely meant it was
greater than all of his own work put together."
Song: hai isi mein pyaar ki aabru, wo jafa karen main wafa karoon
Film: Anpadh
Singer: Lata
Music: Madan Mohan
Lyrics: Raja Mehdi Ali Khan
Score: 20/20
[UVR and Richa]
This song is infinitely better than the other Roopak-taal song from
the same film. I have never liked the other one ...
[Arunabha]
I suppose Naushad is given to making hasty statements without
contemplating their implications. He has composed much better than
this.
[Surajit]
I've never thought this song was all THAT great. Naushad was wrong--he
does have better compositions.
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#9
aaj kitne hi yugon ke baad aisi chaandni
aaj kitne hi sukhon (?) ke baad aisi chaandni
aaj dono avani ambar par madhurimaa chha rahi
chaand ambar mein, avani par tum priye muska rahi
aaj sapnon mein doobaakar sunahare armaan kar lo
A Mahendra Kapoor-Lata duet compsed by C. Ramchandra about which a lot
has been written on RMIM (among others, the use of an afternoon raag
for a raat/chaandni scene). Sensitive poetry, a delicate composition,
and a moving rendition. At places, the singers' voices die down to a
whisper, creating an arresting effect.
Song: aaj madhuvataas dole, madhurima main praan bhar lo
Film: Stree
Singer: Mahendra Kapoor, Lata
Music: C. Ramchandra
Lyrics: Bharat Vyas
Score: 15/20
[Surajit]
Aaaah....what a beautiful Madhmaad-Sarang.
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#10
sab ke aangan diya jale re, more aangan jiya
hawa laage shool jaisi, taana maare chunariya
aaee hai aansoo ki baraat, bairan ban gayi nindiya
This Lata solo has an interesting instrumental prelude where the
rhythm shifts mid-way from Keherwa to Roopak. A wonderful composition
by S. D. Burman. Among other well-known songs from this film are two
tandem solos by Kishore Kumar and Lata. Coincidentally, clue #25 also
features a Lata solo from an SDB soundtrack containing another pair of
Kishore/Lata tandem solos.
Song: megha chhayi aadhi raat, bairan ban gayi nindiya
Film: Sharmilee
Singer: Lata
Music: S. D. Burman
Lyrics: Neeraj
Score: 20/20
[Surajit]
ick! terrible song. Lata is just unberable at the high pitches.
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#11
main diya hoon aisa jahaan mein
ke jalaa to ho nahin roshni
jo jigar mein hai wo khalish kahin
meri hasraton ko mita na de
This Iqbal Qureshi composition has Mukesh singing the high notes in
the stanzas. One does not get to hear Mukesh at those pitches too
often. While he carries off songs such as "jaane kahaan gaye wo din"
most gracefully, we hear him faltering just a little in this featured
song. Nevertheless, a memorable number from a 1961 film. The movie,
one must assume, had to do with life imprisonment :-)
Song: mujhe raat din ye khayal hai, wo nazar se mujhko gira na de
Film: Umar Qaid
Singer: Mukesh
Music: Iqbal Qureshi
Lyrics:
Score: 15/20
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#12
raat aaee hai mohabbat ki kahaani leke
chaand nikla hai tamanna ki jawaani leke
din nikalte hi mujhe door kahin jaana
aakhiri raat ki aankhon mein nishaani leke
The above is the prelude to an Asha song with part-choral interludes,
which appears in an outstanding Hemant Kumar soundtrack featuring
memorable solos by three giants - Lata, Asha, and Geeta Dutt. Did
many other films share that distinction? (Perhaps Sardar Malik's CHOR
BAZAAR is one). A Lata solo from this film is also set to Roopak.
However, the most well-known songs from the film are two tandem solos
sung by Hemant Kumar and Geeta Dutt.
Song: mere hamsafar tujhe kya khabar, hai chala kidhar tera kaarvaan
Film: Shart
Singer: Asha
Music: Hemant Kumar
Lyrics: Rajinder Krishan
Score: 15/20
[Anonymous]
I believe there's a sequel to this movie called "Trausers." 8-) If you
do use that dreadful pun in your answers post, please protect my
identity.
[PRP]
Identity of participant protected for security reasons.
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#13
aas adhoori pyaasi umariya
chhaaye andhera sooni dagariya
darat jiya bechain, ho raama
darat jiya bechain
The excerpt above occurs in two versions of a Mukesh solo, one fast
and one slow, in a movie adaptation of Munshi Prem Chand's literary
classic. The soundtrack, scored by Pandit Ravi Shankar, is a
treasure-trove of folk music, full of rhythmic surprises.
Song: hiya jarat rahat din rain, ho raama, jarat rahat din rain
Film: Godaan
Singer: Mukesh
Music: Ravi Shankar
Lyrics: Anjaan
Score: 16/20
[Arunabha]
I really like this song. Any idea regarding the picturization of the
song and the movie in general ?
[PRP]
There seemed to be some confusion about the words of the first
line. "hiya" comes from "hriday"; "jarat" from "jalna".
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#14
kya raaz hai, kya raaz hai
aaj parwaane ko bhi apni lagan par naaz hai
kyon shama bechain hai khaamosh hone ke liye
aansuon ki kya zaroorat dil ko rone ke liye
tere dil ka saaz pagli aaj be-aawaaz hai
Sarod maestro Ustad Ali Akbar Khan is known to have composed music for
two films in the 1950's. One was HAMSAFAR, and the other featured this
exquisite three part Lata solo. While this song may be hard to get
hold of (not so for those who attend RMIMeets!), the Hemant-Asha duet
"wo chaand nahin hai, dil hai kisi deewaane ka" from the same film
is more easily accessible.
Song: hai kaheen par shaadmaani aur kahin naashaadiyan
Film: Aandhiyan
Singer: Lata
Music: Ali Akbar Khan
Lyrics: Pt. Narendra Sharma
Score: 13/20
[Neha]
The day i saw the quiz, I had heard this song and the shama-parwana
mention had registered in my mind, so it was quite easy for me to get
it.
[Balaji and Malini]
This is obviously from Andhiyan. We have probably heard this song.
Your clue implies that this song was included in one of the meet
tapes. Pray which one, do tell us. Because we couldn't find it in 3
possible 'candidate' tapes, viz. East coast's ATMJH, Vish's
magnificent release on Lata's 70th b'day and the last by Neha, Hrishi
et al in the recent meet.
[PRP]
The song is present in the tape titled "man veena ke taar" distributed
during RMIM Meet, California, 1999 (the same as "Vish's magnificent
release on Lata's 70th b'day"!). It is funny B&M say the above,
because, if I remember right, they had helped in the cover design for
the tape :-) Be sure to search in the cassette; this song is missing
from the CD.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
#15
ye kaun aa gaya dil ko karta ishaare
ki mehki faza muskuraae nazaare
qadam badhke tu choom le ae mohabbat
ki dil ko bahut unpe pyaar aa raha hai
The song showcases Asha Bhosale's ghazal singing talents. Madan
Mohan's composition is slow, deliberate, and provides a lot of scope
for the singer to inject her own style and nuances. She comes off with
flying colours. Notice the extremely long metre of the ghazal, just as
in clues #16, #11.
Song: saba se ye kehdo ki kaliyan bichhaye
wo dekho wo jaan-e-bahaar aa raha hai
Film: Bank Manager
Singer: Asha
Music: Madan Mohan
Lyrics: Jalal Mahilabadi
Score: 19/20
[Vijay]
BTW, did I say "sabaa se ye kah do" reminds me a lot of another Asha
song from the 60s - mai.n shaayad tumhaare liye ajanabii huu.N magar
chaa.Nd taare mujhe jaanate hai.n. I don't remember if this is an MM
composition or an OPN.
[Neha]
Oh what a song!! And Asha sounds just great in this song..One of her
best..!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------
JHAPTAAL
========
[Aside: Two songs in the Jhaptaal section (#19, #20) have the
percussion playing a 5-beat cycle instead of 10, but I have considered
these to be Jhaptaal for the purposes of this quiz, because the 2-3
pattern is distinct in these songs. Surajit Bose points out that this
rhythm is possibly "Pancham roopak", a 5-beat taal that is a
combination of Roopak and Jhaptaal. Well, the "Roopak+Jhaptaal" combo
suits our RJGK theme perfectly!]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
#16
mujhe kyaa pata tha kabhi ishq mein
raqeebon ko qaasid banaate nahin
khata ho gayi mujhse qaasid mere
tere haath paigham kyon de diya
A very well-known Mukesh solo composed by Roshan. Roshan does have
many interesting Jhaptaal compositions to his credit: "zameen bhi wohi
hai, wohi aasmaan" (Rafi, CHAANDNI CHOWK), "sharaabi sharaabi ye
saawan ka mausam" (Suman, NOOR JAHAN), and Mukesh's "tere pyaar ko is
tarah se bhulaana" (MAINE JEENA SEEKH LIYA), but the featured song is
probably the most popular.
HMV, with its interesting sense of relational algebraic humour, tends
to combine this movie (X) in its tapes, with a Chitragupta film (Y)
bearing its reciprocal title; that is, if I am your "X", then you are
my "Y" :-)
Song: bahaaron ne mera chaman loot kar khizaan ko ye ilzaam kyon de diya
Film: Devar
Singer: Mukesh
Music: Roshan
Lyrics: Majrooh
Score: 19/20
[Satish]
This is a classic example of a lyricist writing totally appropriate
to the film's story and the exact situation of the song. Something
that was common in those days. Another song in the quiz in that group
is 'Kahaan jaa rahaa hai tuu ai jaanewaaley.." from Seema. In today's
parlance, they may be called 'situational" songs, but what songs!
-------------------------------------------------------------------
#17
kaha roop ne chaand hai chaudveen ka
magar chaand kaisa savere savere
We depart from Jhaptaal rhythm (as well as from the ghazal format) as
the last stanza begins:
aate hi ek tarah taar ne dil chheen liya...
...and eventually return to Jhaptaal with the lines:
aankhon mein jaadoo, baaton mein tona
diya kaisa charkha (?) savere savere
The opening line of this Pankaj Mallik song is very similar to that
raagmala on alphabet-romance: "P bin soona G" (Manna+Lata, Anil
Biswas); both are based on Raag Jogiya. Hrishi Dixit once pointed out
the parallel between this and the ham-radeef ghazal sung in recent
times by Jagjit Singh: "koi paas aaya savere savere". The tunes of the
songs are different, but both are set to Jhaptaal rhythm.
Song: ye kaun aaj aaya savere savere
ke dil chaunk utha savere savere
Film: Nartaki
Singer: Pankaj Malik
Music: Pankaj Malik
Lyrics: Munshi Arzoo
Score: 15/20
[Balaji and Malini]
There is a fragment in Teen Batti Chaaar Raasta in Lata's voice 'piyaa
milan ki aas' which is identical to P bin soona G in tune and meter.
Also, another well known PM song in Jhaptaal is the famous
ye raaten ye mausam ye hansana hansaana
[PRP]
I think I have heard "piya se milan ki aas" in Abdul Karim Khan's
voice. It is a traditional Jogiya bandish.
[Arunabha]
Isn't the tune of Talat's "tere dar pe aayaa huun" similar to this song ?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
#18
main saanson ke har taar mein chhup raha hoon
main dhadkan ke har raag mein bas raha hoon
zara dil ki jaanib nigaahen jhukaao
mohabbat mein itna na hamko sataao
The Jhaptaal rhythm is introduced very clearly in the opening of this
Lata+Rafi duet. Rafi manages to introduce some obscene mannerisms
into his singing, leaving us with no doubt that he is giving playback
to Prof. Shammi Kapoor. A very popular Shankar-Jaikishan soundtrack
from the early '60s.
Song: aawaaz deke hamen tum bulaao, mohabbat mein itna na hamko sataao
Film: Professor
Singer: Rafi, Lata
Music: Shankar-Jaikishan
Lyrics: Hasrat
Score: 20/20
[Surajit]
The last line of the clue is a dead give-away, isn't it?
[PRP]
Yes, but the score would probably be 20/20 anyway :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
#19
door duniya se koi naheen hai jahaan
mil rahen hain wahaan par zameen aasmaan
chhup ke duniya se phir kyon na mil jaayen ham
This Kishore+Lata duet has to figure in any collection of beautiful
Jhaptaal songs! This is an early Kishore Kumar singing under Anil
Biswas's direction. The subdued singing style and the manner of
enunciation were to undergo a complete metamorphosis in Kishore's
later years, making songs such as this one invaluable treasures.
Song: aa mohabbat ki basti basaaenge ham
Film: Fareb
Singer: Kishore, Lata
Music: Anil Biswas
Lyrics: Majrooh
Score: 17/20
[Satish]
Aa muhabbat kii basti basaayenge hum is also a personal favorite.
Lata and Kishore combine excellently to give this song the feelings it
demanded. "..tere daaman talak hum to kyaa aayenge.." takes you in
that dreamland where you are really communicating with your
sweetheart.
[Surajit]
Kishore sounded very Bong in his early days, didn't he? I'm not sure
what exactly leads me to say that--it's not the accent, but something
about his singing....
[UVR and Richa]
The tune of this song (at least of the mukh.Da) is very similar to a
Ghazal to music by Saraswati Devi and sung by Habib Wali Mohd.
aashiyaa.N luT gayaa, gul_sitaaN luT gayaa
ab qafas se nikal kar kidhar jaaye.nge
-------------------------------------------------------------------
#20
teri nazar se ise dekh loon main
dil se mere tum ye mehsoos kar lo
toofan ye mere dil se utha hai
chaaho to tum apne daaman mein bhar lo
toofaanon mein khoya hua ye raasta hai
A raging storm, crackling thunder, and lashing rain form the backdrop
of this Talat+Lata duet composed by Salil Chaudhary, the lyrics of
which are, of course, about stormy, rainy nights. Talat and Lata take
turns in this song early on, with Talat merely reciting the words and
Lata following suit singing the same.
Song: saawan ki raaton mein aisa bhi hota hai
Film: Prem Patra
Singer: Talat, Lata
Music: Salil Choudhary
Lyrics: Rajinder Krishan
Score: 16/20
[Satish]
Saawan kii raaton mein aisa bhii hotaa hai is another very sweet song
- one can discern Salil's stamp written all over it.
[Neha]
Somehow I have never taken a liking to this song.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
#21
jo thokar na khaaye naheen jeet uski
jo gir ke sambhal jaaye hai jeet uski
nishaan manzilon ke ye pairon ke chhaale
This Rafi solo is from a Shankar-Jaikishan soundtrack with some great
music. There's no 'limit' to Rafi's emotional outpouring as he infuses
a lot of feeling into his rendition. Yet another classic from this
movie is a prayer song rendered by Manna Dey.
Song: kahaan ja raha hai tu ae jaanewaale
Film: Seema
Singer: Rafi
Music: Shankar-Jaikishan
Lyrics:
Score: 17/20
[Surajit]
>> a Shankar-Jaikishan soundtrack with some great music.
Isn't that a contradiction in terms? 8-) Just kidding. I like the
songs of Seema too.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
#22
mohabbat ka anjaam zaahir tha ham par
bahut hamne roka magar dil na maana
This Mukesh+Lata duet composed by Anil Biswas is elegant in its
simplicity, and creates a telling impact. Interestingly, Mukesh seems
to have sung quite a few Jhaptaal compositions, my favourite being
"dil dhoondhta hai sahaare sahaare" (Dattaram). Under Anil Biswas's
direction, I can think of one more - "jawaani ye bharpoor dilkash
adaayen" from PEHLI NAZAR.
Song: zamaane ka dastoor hai ye puraana
Film: Lajawab
Singer: Mukesh, Lata
Music: Anil Biswas
Lyrics: Prem Dhawan
Score: 16/20
[Arunabha]
What a song !
-------------------------------------------------------------------
#23
geeton ke phoolon ki maala banaakar
laaya hoon dil aarati mein sajaakar
ye saanson ki sargam karoon tere arpan
aaaaaaa~~
tujhe aur kya doon main thehra bhikhari
daras tere maange ye tera pujaari
Manna Dey opens with an alaap, and continues impressively. This
brilliant soundtrack must rank among Shankar-Jaikishan's best. The
movie contains many memorable melodies, the highlight being a
"duet-duel" between Bhimsen Joshi and Manna Dey which happens to be
among the very few filmi compositions set to Ektaal. Funnily, the
fact that Manna Dey's voice was assigned to Bharat Bhushan, the
singer-hero, meant that Bhimsen Joshi was adjudged the "loser" in
the contest.
Song: bhay bhanjana vandana sun hamaari
Film: Basant Bahar
Singer: Manna Dey
Music: Shankar-Jaikishan
Lyrics: Shailendra
Score: 16/20
[Surajit]
bhay bha.njanaa, Vandana, sun hamaarii. I've never thought of hamaarii
Vandana as being particularly fear-destroying; on the contrary. But
who knows....maybe this song is about some other Vandana.
Manna is terrible in this song. His voice quivers and quakes for no
apparent reason. Now I like Manna De, but let's face it, somebody
should have told him to get a grip on his voice for this one.
Also, the orchestration is terribly jarring. A good main melody
completely spoiled by the singing and the orchestration.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
#24
haaye re kalaakar, jaane na sansaar
har raag mein peed hai kis ke man ki
This Rafi+Manna duet is from a masterly soundtrack by S. N. Tripathi,
doing ample justice to this film which concerned the life of a
legendary musician. The soundtrack was unique in that it featured yet
another Jhaptaal composition - a raag tutorial, with six "lakshan-geet
format" stanzas, each lyrically describing, and musically set to one
of Bhairav, Malkauns, Hindol, Shree, Deepak, and Megh.
Song: sudh bisar gayi aaj apne gunan ki
Film: Sangeet Samrat Tansen
Singer: Rafi, Manna Dey
Music: S. N. Tripathi
Lyrics: Shailendra
Score: 14/20
[Surajit]
What a beauty. One of the high points of HFM, at least AFAI am
concerned. Now if only I could remember whether it's in Bhinnashadaj
or Kaushi Dhani; I keep getting the two raags mixed up. 8-(
-------------------------------------------------------------------
#25
mud ke jo dekhoon to bachpan bulaaye, bulaaye,
palkon mein lekin koi muskuraaye
jee ko duhkhaaon ki pee sang ho loon
A very interesting composition by S. D. Burman. A semi-classical core
with a somewhat incongruous, extended prelude that aims to create an
atmosphere of suspense (no doubt, arising from the fact that this is
really background music in the film, not a real prelude). Playful
sargams and crisp taans abound. The ending pulls the singer and
listener into unfamiliar territory involving stutters and unexpected
hops all over the octave, creating a vivid image of a wounded deer's
movements. This soundtrack is well known for two tandem solos by Lata
and Kishore Kumar, and a comic Hemant-Geeta duet.
Song: ghaayal hiraniya main ban ban doloon
Film: Munimji
Singer: Lata
Music: S. D. Burman
Lyrics: Shailendra
Score: 17/20
-------------------------------------------------------------------
#26
ajab ye safar hai teri zindagi ka
ke hai har qadam par andhera andhera
jo teri khushi ho to raahon mein teri
amar deep main apni dil ka jala loon
This Dev Anand-Vyjayantimala starrer, whose name appears in the clue
above, had some very pretty music composed by C. Ramchandra. Other
than the Asha Bhosale solo featured above, there was a two-part
Rafi-Asha duet whose opening line reminds us of "ye mera deewaanaapan
hai".
Song: ye jee chaahta hai kisi din main teri
nigaahon ki shyaahi khuda se churaa loon
agar ho ijaazat agar ho inaayat
tere gham ko main apni qismat banaaloon
Film: Amardeep
Singer: Asha
Music: C. Ramchandra
Lyrics: Rajinder Krishan
Score: 7/20
[PRP]
This turned out to be the toughest clue, in spite of my giving away
the film name. Most people guessed "kisi din zara dekh mera bhi hoke",
which is also an Asha solo from the same film (but is not set to
Jhaptaal, so couldn't belong here); confusingly, "kisi din" is common
to the first line of both songs. I am told that "ye jee chaahta hai"
tends to be omitted in some of HMV's AMARDEEP tapes. It is present in
the AMARDEEP/BAARISH compilation.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
#27
laakh umangen liye raat dhalne lagi
meri tanhaai karwat badalne lagi
haaye re bebasi, ab mere saaye bhi
munh chhupaane lage...
door tak mere dil ki pukaaren gayeen
phir na ab kuchh aisi bahaaren gayeen
shaam-e-gham ki qasam ab to mere qadam
dagmagaane lage...
The moon is asleep in the sky, but the heart is restless. There is
sorrow in the air, and memories continue to haunt. A breathtaking
melody, beautifully sung. One interesting aspect of the lyrics is that
the song departs from the standard mukhda-antara format. The refrain
here occurs at the end of each stanza.
The format of this quiz is such that I can get away without providing
any pstatistical coordinates! I am invoking that liberty with this
clue. Hehehehe *devilish grin* :-)
Song: so gayi chandni jaag uthi bekali
gham sataane lage
tum mujhe aur bhi yaad aane lage
Film: Akash
Singer: Lata
Music: Anil Biswas
Lyrics: Satyendra Athaiya
Score: 8/20
[Arunabha]
Anil Biswas and Lata come together to create a masterpiece. What can
one possibly say in words about this song ?
[Neha]
I had to hum for two days to get the mukhada. The only thing I could
get from the clue and hum was 'tum mujh aur bhi yaad aane lage'.. and
i just wouldnt get the mukhada. But it was so nice to get a little
frustrated at not getting the mukhada but getting a part of it:)
[Srinivas] By elimination this is a Lata song composed by Anil
Biswas:)
[Balaji and Malini]
Two things. By providing the pstats of every other song in the quiz,
you provide the information this is an LM/AB combination. Second, you
have completely given away the mukhada.
[PRP]
Indeed, as many realized, I never actually carried out my threat of
not providing any PStats for this clue.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a brain-teaser before we close. There is a class of
rhythmically interesting songs that employs different taals in
different sections of the song, e.g., mukhda set to keherwa and antara
set to daadra. The one combination of taals that is relevant to our
RJGK is: Roopak + Jhaptaal. Can you find a song that employs both
taals? The one I have in mind is structured more like a
raag-mala/geet-mala than a single song.
[PRP]
No one attempted the "brain-teaser" question. The song I had in mind
is the song sequence ("meghdoot") from KAVI KALIDAS (Music:
S. N. Tripathi) that begins: "O ashaadh ke pehle baadal". One section
("shankar mahaadev") is set to Jhaptaal. The final part ("door dekh
alkapuri") is set to Roopak. Unfortunately, the entire song is
probably available only on video; the CD contains only the final part.
This turned out to be a very high-scoring quiz, with the average
score being 23/27.
The winners constitute a significant fraction of the participants :-)
Consolation Prize (22-24 /27)
============================
Arunabha Roy
Uday Patel
Pavan Jha
Srinivas Ganti
Bronze (25/27)
==============
K. Vijay Kumar
Abhay Phadnis
Pratibha Gupta
Chetan Vinchhi
Ajay Nerurkar
Silver (26/27)
==============
Tabassum Hijazi
Balaji and Malini Murthy
Satish Kalra
Gold (27/27)
============
Anil Hingorani
Vandana Vidwans
Neha Desai
I thank all the participants for sending their quiz entries. I
thoroughly enjoyed the quiz, and hope all of you did too!
That concludes this quiz. Over to SAB Saab for the next RJGK quiz on
"triets, quaternions, quintuplets, sextants, septics, octagons,
novembers, and decadences"... oh, and over also to the RJGK-56 hosts
for their results post :-)
Regards,
Preeti Ranjan
---------------------------------------
Mukesh's voice is better than it sounds
---------------------------------------
Srinivas Ganti
> Song: o basanti pavan paagal, na ja re na ja, roko koi
> Film: Jis desh mein ganga behti hai
> Singer: Lata
> Music: Shankar-Jaikishan
> Lyrics: Shailendra
> Score: 20/20
There was a recent thread on the background score of movies reused as
songs.With deja gone
I didn't have patience to nail it.
This song was made out of the background score of Awara.
"Dil jo na keh sakaa" (and probably "rahe na rahe ham" )can be traced to
background score of Aarti.
>
> Song: ye jee chaahta hai kisi din main teri
> nigaahon ki shyaahi khuda se churaa loon
> agar ho ijaazat agar ho inaayat
> tere gham ko main apni qismat banaaloon
> Film: Amardeep
> Singer: Asha
> Music: C. Ramchandra
> Lyrics: Rajinder Krishan
> Score: 7/20
>
> [PRP]
> This turned out to be the toughest clue, in spite of my giving away
> the film name. Most people guessed "kisi din zara dekh mera bhi hoke",
> which is also an Asha solo from the same film (but is not set to
> Jhaptaal, so couldn't belong here); confusingly, "kisi din" is common
> to the first line of both songs. I am told that "ye jee chaahta hai"
> tends to be omitted in some of HMV's AMARDEEP tapes.
I saw this movie a couple of months ago and this song was cut from the video
too!
Srinivas.
Chetan Vinchhi
> My sincere thanks to all of you for participating in the quiz.
And our thanks to you, Preeti, for having put in all the effort
and having done a great job with the quiz!
Assorted comments...
> [Anonymous]
> I believe there's a sequel to this movie called "Trausers." 8-) If you
> do use that dreadful pun in your answers post, please protect my
> identity.
>
> [PRP]
> Identity of participant protected for security reasons.
In that case you should have replaced the smiley with |8|-)
> [Vijay]
> BTW, did I say "sabaa se ye kah do" reminds me a lot of another Asha
> song from the 60s - mai.n shaayad tumhaare liye ajanabii huu.N magar
> chaa.Nd taare mujhe jaanate hai.n. I don't remember if this is an MM
> composition or an OPN.
OPN, methinks. This song does not even come close to the
Bank Manager beaut.
> [Balaji and Malini]
> There is a fragment in Teen Batti Chaaar Raasta in Lata's voice 'piyaa
> milan ki aas' which is identical to P bin soona G in tune and meter.
> Also, another well known PM song in Jhaptaal is the famous
> ye raaten ye mausam ye hansana hansaana
>
> [PRP]
> I think I have heard "piya se milan ki aas" in Abdul Karim Khan's
> voice. It is a traditional Jogiya bandish.
A thumri, actually. Yes, AKK has recorded it. So have Bhimsen
Joshi, Firoz Dastur and some other singers as well. Lata's version
is the best :)
> [Surajit]
> bhay bha.njanaa, Vandana, sun hamaarii. I've never thought of hamaarii
> Vandana as being particularly fear-destroying; on the contrary. But
> who knows....maybe this song is about some other Vandana.
Your little jokes are getting tiresome, Surajit :)
> Manna is terrible in this song. His voice quivers and quakes for no
> apparent reason. Now I like Manna De, but let's face it, somebody
> should have told him to get a grip on his voice for this one.
I never thought this day would come, but here goes. I quite
like this Manna Dey song. Quiver or not, he seems to have
grasped the melodic idea for a change and has even injected
emotion into his rendition. And he has handled the frightful
range of the song pretty well.
> Song: sudh bisar gayi aaj apne gunan ki
>
> [Surajit]
> What a beauty. One of the high points of HFM, at least AFAI am
> concerned. Now if only I could remember whether it's in Bhinnashadaj
> or Kaushi Dhani; I keep getting the two raags mixed up. 8-(
Aren't the two identical? By the way, I remember reading
somewhere this song was in Hemant. I don't remember
whether rishabh is used in the song...
> ---------------------------------------
> Mukesh's voice is better than it sounds
> ---------------------------------------
That's because he is a terrible singer.
Sorry, PRP, couldn't resist this time :)
C
SKalra902
Surajit wrote in his comments:
>
>[Surajit]
>bhay bha.njanaa, Vandana, sun hamaarii. I've never thought of hamaarii
>Vandana as being particularly fear-destroying; on the contrary. But
>who knows....maybe this song is about some other Vandana.
The above is the best example of "Punctuation 101", if there ever was one. :-)
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Abhay Phadnis
"Preeti Ranjan Panda" <pa...@synopsys.com> wrote in message
news:3A93069F...@synopsys.com...
>
> [Vijay]
> BTW, did I say "sabaa se ye kah do" reminds me a lot of another Asha
> song from the 60s - mai.n shaayad tumhaare liye ajanabii huu.N magar
> chaa.Nd taare mujhe jaanate hai.n. I don't remember if this is an MM
> composition or an OPN.
>
Indeed OPN, from a film with a never-ending title - "Yeh raat phir na
aayegi", IIRC. Starred Sharmila Tagore and Biswajeet. Can't see (hear?!)
much similarity betwen the songs, tho'.
Warm regards,
Abhay
Surajit A. Bose
>> [Surajit]
>> What a beauty. One of the high points of HFM, at least AFAI am
>> concerned. Now if only I could remember whether it's in Bhinnashadaj
>> or Kaushi Dhani; I keep getting the two raags mixed up. 8-(
>
>Aren't the two identical? By the way, I remember reading
>somewhere this song was in Hemant. I don't remember
>whether rishabh is used in the song...
Yes, there is, right in the sthaayi:
Ni Re'Ni NiDha NiDha DhaPa DhaPa ma
a pa ne gu Na na kii
And a pancham to boot.....Hemant it is. Thanks Chetan.
As for Bhinnashadaj and Kaushi Dhani being identical, are you sure?
What is your source for the information?
-s
Chetan Vinchhi
Surajit A. Bose <sb...@MailAndNews.com>
>
> As for Bhinnashadaj and Kaushi Dhani being identical, are you sure?
> What is your source for the information?
Assuming that "Kaushik Dhwani" and "Kaushi Dhani" are the
same, the following from an old RMIC post by Rajan:
\begin{quote}
>What are the differences between Kaushik Dhwani & Bhinna Shadaj?
That depends on who you ask. In my opinion, none that are worth quibbling
over. There are at least 3 names for this one rAga - Bhinna Shadaj, Kaushik
Dhwani and Hindoli.
Some folks suggest that in Kaushik Dhwani the madhyam is accorded
importance whereas in Bhinna Shadaj it is the gandhAr. Further, they
add that in B-Shadaj there are some specific meenD sequences (the only
trouble is that the Kaushik Dhwani folks also employ these). My view is
that all this is picking the flyshit out of the pepper type of activity
calculated solely to give the contending parties a warm, fizzy feeling
of self-profundity.
Even in Bhinna Shadaj the madhyam occupies an important sthAna. The best
approach, IMO, is to view these as one rAga with local variants. The details
may vary with the performer but the melodic idea is not in any essential
form different.
\end{quote}
naniwadekar
> could find several Jhaptaals but no Roopak.
>
Angulimaal - Anil Biswas)
earlier today. It uses kehrawa and roopak. It is featured on 'Denver RMIM
meet - 2000' CD.
I had mentioned a few months ago that Abhisheki has used Jhaptaal for the
marathi natyageet
'divya swaatantrya ravi', but Dinanath has used deepchandi-ish theka for the
same song. Not true.
Both JA and DM have used jhaptaal.
That there are so few film songs set to ektaal was news to me. I had just
assumed that given
the punch that ektaal has + the fact that there are so many drut bandishes
set to ektaal, there
must be many songs (based on rhythm or raagdari) set to ektaal. But when I
tried to recall
songs in ektaal, I could think of very few : 'jaa mai tose naahi bolu.n' ,
'pavan diwani'
and 'man mohana'. Besides you have obvoiusly given the topic a lot of
thought, and yet
you could mention so few songs in ektaal. Why should that be so ? It is
worth putting this
question to singers and especially MDs from the golden era. Speculation from
RMIMers
will also be welcome.
- nani
Surajit A. Bose
"Kaushik Dhwani" suggests a very different etymology for the raag than I
thought. I have always heard the raag called "Kaushi Dhani," and I
assumed it was because the raag is like Dhani sung in Kauns-ang. Given
that Kauns is Sa ga ma dha ni sa in various permutations of komal and
shuddha, the raag would still qualify as a Kauns-ka-prakar, right?
Anyway...best stop before some wise guy suggests we move this
conversation to RMIC.
Nani-sahib, where do you hear the ruupak in "dhiire dhiire Dhal re
chandaa"? As far as I remember the song is entirely in keherva. The
uThaav is on the second beat, which is a tad unusual, but it still appears
to be an eight-beat cycle rather than a seven-beat one. Am I missing
something? Can you please clarify?
Another ektal film song is "jaa re beimaan, tujhe jaan liyaa," a Bageshree
wonderfully sung by Manna De for Dilip Dholakia in Private Secretary. But
you're right, it is an uncommon taal for a film song.
-Surajit
naniwadekar
> Nani-sahib, where do you hear the ruupak in "dhiire dhiire Dhal re
> chandaa"? As far as I remember the song is entirely in keherva. The
> uThaav is on the second beat, which is a tad unusual, but it still appears
> to be an eight-beat cycle rather than a seven-beat one. Am I missing
> something? Can you please clarify?
>
soon as
I do that, I will be back with my comments.
> Another ektal film song is "jaa re beimaan, tujhe jaan liyaa," a Bageshree
> wonderfully sung by Manna De for Dilip Dholakia in Private Secretary. But
> you're right, it is an uncommon taal for a film song.
>
How about 'rooTh ke tum to chal diye' (Lata - Jalti Nishani) ? It uses an
unusual
theka. One tabliya told me that it is a variant of ektal. Ever since I heard
that, I can
see some ektal in that theka, but it could be an instance of wishful
observation
on my part.
- nani
Ajay P Nerurkar
: Nani-sahib, where do you hear the ruupak in "dhiire dhiire Dhal re
: chandaa"? As far as I remember the song is entirely in keherva. The
: uThaav is on the second beat, which is a tad unusual, but it still appears
: to be an eight-beat cycle rather than a seven-beat one. Am I missing
: something? Can you please clarify?
The mukhada is set to an 8-beat cycle but the antaraas are set to a
7-beat cycle. The shift is achieved by a slight speeding up or slowing
down of the pace.
Ajay
vulca...@mailandnews.com
>
> RJGK 57: Beats on the unbeaten tracks - Answers and Results
> (Theme: Songs set to Roopak taal and Jhaptaal)
>
> Hi RMIMers,
>
> RJGK (RMIM Jhim Geeton Ki) - 57 has concluded, and this post
> summarises the answers, results, and comments of the participants. I
> was delighted to receive 21 entries from the following people, listed
> in order of my receiving the entries.
>
May I request similar exercise on 57 as was done for 56.
Personwise answers.
-rawat
Preeti Ranjan Panda
>
> May I request similar exercise on 57 as was done for 56.
> Personwise answers.
I understand your curiosity. I think I did point out interesting cases
where people submitted wrong answers. There were no comments about
others mainly because the answers were blank.
Posting the entire slate of answers has traditionally not been done on
RJGKs, partly for the sake of brevity and partly because explicit
permission has to be sought from participants (I did receive a request
to not display scores/answers from at least one person; admittedly,
the "non-competitive" category can be extended to include this case).
The presentation of interesting correlations is probably best left to
the quizmaster's judgement. In any case, I don't have much to add to
the RJGK-57 results post on the topic of "wrong answers".