C.Ramchandra
anil dixit
i was looking the filmfare site the other day and i realised that
C.Ramchandra was nominated for the best MD award only twice -for azad
and asha. he lost out to chori chori and naya daur respectively.
i couldnt help feeling a twinge of sadness that azad had lost out to
chori chori. it had great music, but azad was just slightly better i
thought!
another thing i noticed about anna's music is that after navrang his
quality deteriorated alarmingly. one can feel a pulsating sense of
confidence in the man when listening to Navrang, but after that his
scores are extremely average by his standards. Rootha Na Karo is
embarassing to hear, the others in the 60s are also very poor compared
to his work in the 50s.
he also had a strange fascination for mahendra kapoor later on his
career.
i guess someone on this forum mustve met him. any ideas why his graph
plummeted so suddenly. was it his break from lata? or the loss of his
music book? a natural deterioration with time in his creative juices?
anything else?
im fascinated by anna's music and am always hungry to learn more about
him. what a composer!
cheers
anil
Asif
Asif
vijay...@my-deja.com
as well as Lata's voices and some fantastic music as well.
I can only think of one composer whose creative juices
did not abandon him over time - SD Burman. All the others,
Naushad, SJ, OP, Chitalkar, even Anil Biswas declined
over the years.
I guess it is true of anyone in the "creative" line. Film makers,
composers, writers, poets all have a set of high-energy,
very creative output and then they either spend the rest of
their life trying to recreate the early magic or decide to
retire rather than embarass themselves (Khaiyyam?)
Vijay
anil dixit
of adulation that SJ and Naushad command. and very few ppl seem to
realise the fact that his quality was top notch right till the end.
anyway, i have listened to Stree(1961). didnt particularly like it
though the lata solos are hummable. overall his scores in the 60s are
not mellifluous. perhaps, i am mistaken but one detects a lack of
confidence in the score.
nevertheless, a great composer. pity, not a single filmfare award!
makes one wonder what the criteria for giving out film awards is huh!
:)
anil
dodo
Some people say that the later SD Burman years, he had the creative
input of RD Burman, which kept the quality up.
Animesh Kumar
> vijay...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
<snip>
>>
>>I guess it is true of anyone in the "creative" line. Film makers,
>>composers, writers, poets all have a set of high-energy,
>>very creative output and then they either spend the rest of
>>their life trying to recreate the early magic or decide to
>>retire rather than embarass themselves (Khaiyyam?)
>>
Khaiyyam isn't really retired. He just says that film-directors or
producers act very high-handedly and give no musical freedom. More than
that, they also ask to copy some popular tunes from the west and He
argues that then they don't need me. They can find someone else to do that.
When Late Kaifi Azmi commanded that only Khaiyyaam should compose the
album Shaguftagi, he very well did it. I think the tunes were nice and
the album can be considered superlative among ghair-filmi-ghazal
compilations of past 20 yrs. Any music director, however, will miss the
quality of voices like Rafi, Asha, Talat, Mukesh, etc. while creating
ghazals.
Right now he is working on some film, though I cannot remember the name
of the film right now. Ok, so much said, it is time [for me] to
re-discover his music in my collection.
Best regards,
Animesh
asi...@my-deja.com
Animesh Kumar wrote:
> When Late Kaifi Azmi commanded that only Khaiyyaam should compose the
> album Shaguftagi, he very well did it. I think the tunes were nice and
> the album can be considered superlative among ghair-filmi-ghazal
> compilations of past 20 yrs. Any music director, however, will miss the
> quality of voices like Rafi, Asha, Talat, Mukesh, etc. while creating
> ghazals.
I would contend that there are plenty of singers who can sing ghair
filmi ghazals quite well. In fact, even though I like Rafi selectively,
I thought his Ghalib stuff in 'Portrait of a genius' was banal. In
fact, barring Lata, I found the other heavyweight performers quite
disappointing in that album.
Why, on some occassions, Talat Aziz, Hariharan, Ahmed & Mohd Hussain
have given very good performances of ghair-filmi songs. He has even
worked with Talat Aziz before in Bazaar.
As Manna Dey said, "I have seen plenty of composers who fall by the
wayside by refusing to change with times." Khayyam does not need to
compromise his ethics vis-a-vis plagiarism. However, he cannot claim
(if he ever did so) that there is no market for ghair-filmi ghazals nor
that there are no capable singers. After all, this is a man who has the
unenviable history of having recorded Shabana Azmi under his baton.
[with Bhupinder in Gulab Jism Ka, Film: Anjuman, Lyrics: Shahryar? And
I had only recorded that song to ask the draconic "connect" question in
cub quizzes.]
Cheers
Arun
V S Rawat
Several say that in later years, RD Burman's own output was so bad and
he could not keep his own quality up, let alone helping someone else.
--
Animesh Kumar
> Animesh Kumar wrote:
>
>>When Late Kaifi Azmi commanded that only Khaiyyaam should compose the
>>album Shaguftagi, he very well did it. I think the tunes were nice and
>>the album can be considered superlative among ghair-filmi-ghazal
>>compilations of past 20 yrs. Any music director, however, will miss the
>>quality of voices like Rafi, Asha, Talat, Mukesh, etc. while creating
>>ghazals.
>
>
> I would contend that there are plenty of singers who can sing ghair
> filmi ghazals quite well. In fact, even though I like Rafi selectively,
> I thought his Ghalib stuff in 'Portrait of a genius' was banal. In
> fact, barring Lata, I found the other heavyweight performers quite
> disappointing in that album.
I am unaware of POAG example you gave. I like Rafi-Khayyam's pair in
"ghazab kiyaa tere waade pe" (this is Daag) "ai taazaa waridaan e
bisaat" "dard minnat kash e davaa" "nuktaachiin hai Gam e dil" and so
on. I wonder if you call these as banal? Of this "ai taazaa waridaan"
has a tune which left me listening it again and again, even though I
didn't understand the ashaar.
Khayyam-Mukesh is good too: stuff like "haaye mehmaaN kahaaN ye Gam" but
let's leave it aside.
Khayyam and CHA: They have some ghalib ghazals, of which I have two.
Both are nice and were played by Abhay Jain in one of the radio shows.
They both were all praises for it too.
>
> Why, on some occassions, Talat Aziz, Hariharan, Ahmed & Mohd Hussain
> have given very good performances of ghair-filmi songs. He has even
> worked with Talat Aziz before in Bazaar.
He has worked with Talat Aziz but trust me, you won't like to listen
'sataa sataa ke hamen ashkbaar karatii hai' by Talat Aziz if you hear
the same from Mehdi Hassan. The tune is identical -- the difference is
phenomenal. I think Aziz does not sings on his own very well -- you need
to direct him to sing him properly. Same thing I observed in a
TV-concert of his.
>
> As Manna Dey said, "I have seen plenty of composers who fall by the
> wayside by refusing to change with times." Khayyam does not need to
He [Kh] did change with time. Music of Lalarukh and music of Umrao Jaan
are different. Music of Kabhi Kabhi lured the youngsters, while still
the output had some nice Mukesh and Lata outputs. You yourself mentioned
Shabana Azmi's movie Anjuman which had changing-times-type-tunes.
> compromise his ethics vis-a-vis plagiarism. However, he cannot claim
> (if he ever did so) that there is no market for ghair-filmi ghazals nor
> that there are no capable singers. After all, this is a man who has the
> unenviable history of having recorded Shabana Azmi under his baton.
> [with Bhupinder in Gulab Jism Ka, Film: Anjuman, Lyrics: Shahryar? And
> I had only recorded that song to ask the draconic "connect" question in
> cub quizzes.]
You know, there is not really a great market for Ghazals as such. People
don't like anything beyond Jagjit Singh's casettes having simple ashaar.
People don't want to go the extra mile to enjoy the lyrics. I have seen
most of them getting fed up of Ghazals. Of these ghazal-listeners, most
of them get fed up by anything beyond Jagjit Singh.
Only a small fraction is interested in Ghazals these days. An album like
Shguftagi won't sell more than 10,000 (or 10000s of) copies. Compare
with popular albums which sell in millions.
Best,
Animesh
>
> Cheers
> Arun
>
V S Rawat
> dodo wrote:
> > vijay...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> <snip>
> > >
> > > I guess it is true of anyone in the "creative" line. Film makers,
> > > composers, writers, poets all have a set of high-energy,
> > > very creative output and then they either spend the rest of
> > > their life trying to recreate the early magic or decide to
> > > retire rather than embarass themselves (Khaiyyam?)
> > >
>
> Khaiyyam isn't really retired. He just says that film-directors or
> producers act very high-handedly and give no musical freedom. More
> than that, they also ask to copy some popular tunes from the west and
> He argues that then they don't need me. They can find someone else to
> do that.
Khayyam is indeed not retired.
Some months ago, I posted info this group that Khayyam is composing a
film, called Benaras or somthing. check archive.
I have read or heard somewhere that it was Yash Chopra who had once
told Khayyam (after Kabhi Kabhi and other films) that if Khayyam is the
MD, Yash doesn't get good price for him films from financiers/
distributors. So, Yash had apologised to Khayyam and had dropped him.
>
> When Late Kaifi Azmi commanded that only Khaiyyaam should compose the
> album Shaguftagi, he very well did it. I think the tunes were nice
> and the album can be considered superlative among ghair-filmi-ghazal
> compilations of past 20 yrs. Any music director, however, will miss
> the quality of voices like Rafi, Asha, Talat, Mukesh, etc. while
> creating ghazals.
>
> Right now he is working on some film, though I cannot remember the
> name of the film right now. Ok, so much said, it is time [for me] to
> re-discover his music in my collection.
Khayyam had also composed a non-film Ghazal album Khayyam and Asha.
probably someone was trying to recreate UmraoJan magic.
dodo
Presumably these are different years from SD Burman's later years :^)
Sunil Dandekar
I think Guide was SDB's last peak and he went downhill thereafter.
Aradhana, Abhiman, chupke Chupke, Mili, Jugnu, Tere Mere Sapane, (IIRC
Anurag was also SDB)... were to me not comparable with his earlier
output.
To be sure both the peaks and troughs were not very pronounced, so the
decline in the quality is not startling.
regards,
Sunil
asi...@my-deja.com
Animesh Kumar wrote:
>
> I am unaware of POAG example you gave. I like Rafi-Khayyam's pair in
> "ghazab kiyaa tere waade pe" (this is Daag) "ai taazaa waridaan e
> bisaat" "dard minnat kash e davaa" "nuktaachiin hai Gam e dil" and so
> on. I wonder if you call these as banal? Of this "ai taazaa waridaan"
> has a tune which left me listening it again and again, even though I
> didn't understand the ashaar.
Actually, yes. I found them quite ordinary. After listening to Saigal,
every other version I guess it is one of those areas where our
aesthetic values differ. Cases where certain songs may appeal to some
but not to others. In fact, I'm one of those rare birds who finds Begum
Akhtar - a much admired/respected singer even by other classical
singers - quite uninspiring. I have never felt the kind of spiritual
connection with her singing, the way I have felt with say, Kishori
Amonkar, Malini Rajurkar or the 1950's Lata (or even Jaymala
Shiledar!). But that's just me. :-)
> >
> > Why, on some occassions, Talat Aziz, Hariharan, Ahmed & Mohd Hussain
> > have given very good performances of ghair-filmi songs. He has even
> > worked with Talat Aziz before in Bazaar.
>
> He has worked with Talat Aziz but trust me, you won't like to listen
> 'sataa sataa ke hamen ashkbaar karatii hai' by Talat Aziz if you hear
> the same from Mehdi Hassan. The tune is identical -- the difference is
> phenomenal. I think Aziz does not sings on his own very well -- you need
> to direct him to sing him properly. Same thing I observed in a
> TV-concert of his.
Fair enough. I'm in no way comparing TA with MH. That would be
ridiculous. I was merely indicating that one can't complain that
Khayyam does not find contemporary singers appealing. He has used them
before.
>
> >
> > As Manna Dey said, "I have seen plenty of composers who fall by the
> > wayside by refusing to change with times." Khayyam does not need to
>
> He [Kh] did change with time. Music of Lalarukh and music of Umrao Jaan
> are different. Music of Kabhi Kabhi lured the youngsters, while still
> the output had some nice Mukesh and Lata outputs. You yourself mentioned
> Shabana Azmi's movie Anjuman which had changing-times-type-tunes.
>
Yes, a travesty. :-) Frankly, I did not think too much of his output in
Kabhi Kabhi, Noorie and Trishul. Remember, this was the period in which
RDB gave a lot of semi-classical beauties. My impression - and I may be
incorrect - is that our reading of Khayyam is sometimes skewed by his
reasonably good songs in the 60s as well as the wonderful stuff in
Umrao Jaan and Bazaar.
> You know, there is not really a great market for Ghazals as such. People
> don't like anything beyond Jagjit Singh's casettes having simple ashaar.
> People don't want to go the extra mile to enjoy the lyrics. I have seen
> most of them getting fed up of Ghazals. Of these ghazal-listeners, most
> of them get fed up by anything beyond Jagjit Singh.
Could be. However, if you visit typical record stores, there are
clearly shelves that are focussed on ghazals. Why, HMV (iirc) has been
re-releasing Mehdi Hasan's songs in many CDs, in a similar way to what
they did with Rafi/Kishore. But as you have stated, the absolute number
of albums sold may be quite low.
Cheers
Arun
asi...@my-deja.com
asi...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Animesh Kumar wrote:
>
> >
> > I am unaware of POAG example you gave. I like Rafi-Khayyam's pair in
> > "ghazab kiyaa tere waade pe" (this is Daag) "ai taazaa waridaan e
> > bisaat" "dard minnat kash e davaa" "nuktaachiin hai Gam e dil" and so
> > on. I wonder if you call these as banal? Of this "ai taazaa waridaan"
> > has a tune which left me listening it again and again, even though I
> > didn't understand the ashaar.
>
>
> Actually, yes. I found them quite ordinary. After listening to Saigal,
> every other version I guess it is one of those areas where our
> aesthetic values differ.
My optical mouse pad made this error possible. I had written "After
listening to Saigal's 'Nuktaachiin hai Gham' every other version seems
banal", but it got erased inadvertantly.
Cheers
Arun
Animesh Kumar
> Animesh Kumar wrote:
>
>
>>I am unaware of POAG example you gave. I like Rafi-Khayyam's pair in
>>"ghazab kiyaa tere waade pe" (this is Daag) "ai taazaa waridaan e
>>bisaat" "dard minnat kash e davaa" "nuktaachiin hai Gam e dil" and so
>>on. I wonder if you call these as banal? Of this "ai taazaa waridaan"
>>has a tune which left me listening it again and again, even though I
>>didn't understand the ashaar.
>
>
>
> Actually, yes. I found them quite ordinary. After listening to Saigal,
> every other version I guess it is one of those areas where our
> aesthetic values differ. Cases where certain songs may appeal to some
> but not to others. In fact, I'm one of those rare birds who finds Begum
> Akhtar - a much admired/respected singer even by other classical
> singers - quite uninspiring. I have never felt the kind of spiritual
> connection with her singing, the way I have felt with say, Kishori
> Amonkar, Malini Rajurkar or the 1950's Lata (or even Jaymala
> Shiledar!). But that's just me. :-)
>
>
>
May be to each his own and we agree to disagree. BA and Khayyaam also
have some nice gems, but since you don't like her, I won't cite it. :-)
<snip>
>>
>
>
> Yes, a travesty. :-) Frankly, I did not think too much of his output in
> Kabhi Kabhi, Noorie and Trishul. Remember, this was the period in which
> RDB gave a lot of semi-classical beauties. My impression - and I may be
> incorrect - is that our reading of Khayyam is sometimes skewed by his
> reasonably good songs in the 60s as well as the wonderful stuff in
> Umrao Jaan and Bazaar.
>
You can add Shaguftagi and Razia Sultan to the list. (Talking of change
in his music, Razia Sultan is very different from Lalarukh, though they
are in similar settings). Kabhi Kabhi was a teen flick movie. Though I
find "kabhii-2 mere dil me.n khayaal aata hai" as a nice composition. I
like the "main pal do pal kaa shayar" song too.
>
>
>>You know, there is not really a great market for Ghazals as such. People
>>don't like anything beyond Jagjit Singh's casettes having simple ashaar.
>>People don't want to go the extra mile to enjoy the lyrics. I have seen
>>most of them getting fed up of Ghazals. Of these ghazal-listeners, most
>>of them get fed up by anything beyond Jagjit Singh.
>
>
>
> Could be. However, if you visit typical record stores, there are
> clearly shelves that are focussed on ghazals. Why, HMV (iirc) has been
> re-releasing Mehdi Hasan's songs in many CDs, in a similar way to what
> they did with Rafi/Kishore. But as you have stated, the absolute number
> of albums sold may be quite low.
But Mehdi Hasan is Mehdi Hasan. Though I am somewhat sure Jagjit Singh
sells more than Mehdi Hasan (or perhaps all other ghazal singers combined).
Do you find 1950-60 compositions of Khayyaam banal too? (pyaas kuchh aur
bhii bhaDakaa dii jhalak dikhlaa ke for instance).
Best,
Animesh
>
> Cheers
> Arun
>
aji...@gmail.com
months ago, somebody had pointed out to me that the song "Baharaon mera
jeevan sanvaro" is lifted from a Kashmiri folk song.
Ketan
aji...@gmail.com says...
>
>I am not so sure about Khayyam not compromising on plagiarism. Many
>months ago, somebody had pointed out to me that the song "Baharaon mera
>jeevan sanvaro" is lifted from a Kashmiri folk song.
As I believe is the song from "Shagun"--parbato.n ke pe.Do.n par shaam kaa
baseraa hai"
Though I am not sure if taking cues/inspiration from folk music/songs can be
called plagiarizing. Almost every HFM MD could then be accused of plagiarizing.
Would have to hear more points of view before agreeing with you on this one.
Ketan
Animesh Kumar
In an interview he said that if situation demands a folk-song, you have
to use a folk tune.
He cannot make a tune and call it a folk-tune because a folk tune should
be rustic and time-unknown. And he did say that he has used folk songs
in movies. According to him, Jagjit Kaur (his wife) introduced him to
the folk songs and he likes them since then.
As much as I know, the songs "parvaton ke pedon par" and "bahaaron mera
jeevan bhi" are based on Raag Pahadi.
Best regards,
Animesh
Abhay Jain
<aji...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128090869.6...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I am not so sure about Khayyam not compromising on plagiarism. Many
> months ago, somebody had pointed out to me that the song "Baharaon mera
> jeevan sanvaro" is lifted from a Kashmiri folk song.
>
Is it a C. Ramchandra thread or Khayyam thread?
AJ
vijay...@my-deja.com
IIRC, tere bharose nandlal was a collection of non-film bhajans
that Rafi sang under Khaiyyam's baton. Absolutely spell-binding
stuff.
AFAIR, Mukesh and Talat also have non-film collaborations with
Khaiyyam.
Vijay
kcp
V S Rawat wrote:
> >
> > Some people say that the later SD Burman years, he had the creative
> > input of RD Burman, which kept the quality up.
>
> Several say that in later years, RD Burman's own output was so bad and
> he could not keep his own quality up, let alone helping someone else.
>
>
> --
Same old shit coming out of Rawatji's mouth...
Read the quoted post, properly - Rawatji :D
KCP
kcp
Sunil Dandekar wrote:
> I think Guide was SDB's last peak and he went downhill thereafter.
> Aradhana, Abhiman, chupke Chupke, Mili, Jugnu, Tere Mere Sapane, (IIRC
> Anurag was also SDB)... were to me not comparable with his earlier
> output.
>
> To be sure both the peaks and troughs were not very pronounced, so the
> decline in the quality is not startling.
>
> regards,
>
> Sunil
Some kind of joke it was - right Sunilji ?
KCP
V S Rawat
hee hee.
I thought my post got wasted when you didn't reply.
Thanks for taking a note of it and burning your blood. ;-E)
--
V S Rawat
> Is it a C. Ramchandra thread or Khayyam thread?
>
> AJ
As if no thread has changed course ever in 33 years history of internet.