Two Gulzar
Abhay Jain
Gulzar Deenvi. Is the same Gulzar (Sampooran Singh)?
AJ
Black Wind
asi...@my-deja.com
- Thompson with a 'p'
Surjit Singh
Black Wind wrote:
> Gulzar's real name is Sampooran Singh
>
1995
--
Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(atic), period.
http://hindi-movies-songs.com/index.html
irfan
In his earlier days Sampooran Singh Gulzar used to write poetry
as Gulzar Deenvi ( Gulzar of Dina ).
Regards,
Irfan
Abhay Jain
"irfan" <kian...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1113759210....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> In his earlier days Sampooran Singh Gulzar used to write poetry
> as Gulzar Deenvi ( Gulzar of Dina ).
>
> Regards,
>
> Irfan
>
>
Thanks for answering the original query.
But that raises another question. Gulzar is
said to have written his first song for Bandini (63).
But the song with Gulzar Deenvi name is for 1960
movie "Shriman Satyawadi".
AJ
Animesh Kumar
Do an RMIM search. This is what I can find to refuse Mora gora ang laile
as Gulzar's first:
===================
From: hamr...@lw1.vsnl.net.in (hamr...@lw1.vsnl.net.in)
Subject: Re: The truth about Gulzar's story?
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.misc
Date: 1999/03/16
In addition to what has been stated by Shekhar of Dubai, Shailendra's
another daughter, Mrs.Gopa Chandra, presently residing in Kanpur, has
claimed
that she even keeps that piece of paper on which Shailendra had
completed the
song 'Mora goraa ang laike...'. She has also confirmed to me that
Gulzar had
only written the Mukhda and rest of the lines were penned by late
Shailendra!
For Gulzar, he is free to claim 'Mora goraa ang laike...' to be HIS
maiden
effort but the fact, which, I'm sorry to put on record, has been denied by
Gulzar, is that prior to BANDINI(1963), he had already written a few songs
for 3 Hindi movies - CHORON KI BAARAAT(1 song), DILER HASEENA(at least 3
songs) and SHREEMAAN SATYAWAADI(4 songs) - all censored in 1960 with the
name
as 'GULZAR DEENVI' (DEENA is the name of a village of Ludhiana (Punjab State
of India) to which he belongs) . On being questioned, Gulzar, without any
hesitation, claimed that he was working in a garage in Delhi at that time !!
The story did not end here. When I contacted one of the co-lyricist,
Mr.Gulshan 'Baawara' of SHREEMAAN SATYAWAADI', he specifically confirmed
that
it was same Gulzar and there is not any other Gulzar in Bollywood to carry
this credit. I'm sure, when I meet Gulzar in person with docomentary proof,
he won't be able to deny the facts stated above.
======================
best
A
pramod
Gulzar comes across as quite a level-headed person in his interviews.
I would have regarded him to be the last person, who would disclaim
his own works.
Looking forward to more contributions on this topic.
best regards
Pramod
Animesh Kumar <anime...@gmail.com> wrote in message
V S Rawat
> hi
>
> Gulzar comes across as quite a level-headed person in his interviews.
> I would have regarded him to be the last person, who would disclaim
> his own works.
> Looking forward to more contributions on this topic.
>
> best regards
> Pramod
Hi Pramod,
I concur with your feelings.
I am not able to understand what is the fun in Shailendra
completing some other poet's lyrics?
Gulzar is a poet. No doubt about it.
He has written hundreds of songs in more than forty years,
all of great consistent quality.
What was stopping him from finishing his own mukha.Daa for
Bandini.
The answer could be that it was Shailendra who stopped Gulzar.
Vividh Bharati had reported in a program some three months
ago, that when Bandini was being made, Shailendra and SDB
were the initial choice for all songs.
But, in the meantime, the director (Bimal Roy?) had come
across Gulzar's work and had decided to use his lyrics. The
said song "moraa goraa ra.ng la_i le" was written by Gulzar
and recorded.
SDB as well as the director liked the end result so much
that both wanted Gulzar to write more songs for the film.
But when Shailendra came to know about it, he was not
amused. He stopped writing lyrics (alloted to him) for
bandini and told SDB and the director "ye bhii gulzar se hii
likhawaa lo".
SDB and the director used to keep Shailendra in very high
esteem, so they gave in very easily, and assured Shailendra
that he will write all remaining lyrics of the film, nothing
more from Gulzar.
That is when Shailendra re-started writing the remaining
lyrics. And, to give him his credit, he did write good
lyrics for the film, accompanied with SDB who also composed
good music for those lyrics.
Hence it is not possible that Gulzar had written just the
mukha.Daa when his creativity deserted him for ever, and he
was literally at a loss of words to finish the song.
Maybe, Shailendra wrote Gulzar's stanza in his own
handwriting and started claiming them to be his own,
supported by some daughter of his.
Gulzar is a nice person. I am quite sure that he would not
like to speak of such ugly politics played upon him in his
newbie phase by veterans.
Gulzar is very much alive. Anyone can contact him to find
the truth instead of contacting some obscure daughter of
someone who was at the giving end of the stick at that time.
If anyone wants Gulzar's phone no., write to me, and I will
send it by direct post. It will help you in contacting him.
I had tried once but met his secretary. Other members
(Pawan, vinay) might also be in touch with Gulzar, and can
find a word from him, if members here are ready to believe
vividh bharatii or gulzar's own words.
I wonder how such pieces of paper on which poets write their
lyrics end up with their family members. I also wonder how
many such pieces of papers is she having and safeguarding
for posterity. The entire story smells of make-believe.
As far as Gulzar denying having written as Gulzar Deenvi,
there could be some contract issue involved. Pradeep had
also written under a different name for that similar
reasons. That angle can be explored and the person needs to
sympathized for the compulsions of a newbie instead of
declaring here and there that he a liar.
The quoted mail is not in good taste.
--
Rawat
Vinay
Gulzar had to say about it. Anyway, here's one more time. From my post
on Nov 27 2002:
=================================================
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.music.indian.misc/msg/2e1f606d69fac5d2
In a web chat session with Gulzar, organised by Rediff in 1999, I
happened to ask him this question. Here's the part..
====
Vinay (Sat Jul 17 1999 3:56 IST)
Sir, there's a lot of discussion about you on the music newsgroup
Rec.Music.Indian.Misc, the one recent being about your debut song.
Apparently Mora gora rang lei le is been claimed by Shailendra's
daughter as Shailendra's - the antaras. Would you clarify please?..
Gulzar (Sat Jul 17 1999 3:59 IST)
Vinay: I knew Shailendra, even before I came to films, from Bombay
Youth Choir and IPTA. Even if by chance any line had resembled his, he
would have told me, he was there when my song was accepted by Sachinda
and Bimalda. I have no more clarifications to give.
====
=================================================
As for the second question whether 'moraa goraa a.ng' from Bandini was
his first song or not, he had a very simple and 'sulajhii-huii'
explanation.
According to him, during the days of Shriman Satyawadi (one of the
pre-Bandini films attributed to Gulzar Deenvi), he used to share a room
in Bombay with 3 or 4 people (one of them was Gulshan Bawra. I forgot
the name of other two). None of them was established. They used to get
some ad-hoc writing assignments. As he put it, it was like "jaise
ka.nche khelaa karate the. ek laain usane likhii, ek mai.nne, ek
teesare ne. jab baarii aaii ki naam kisakaa diyaa jaae, to gulazaar
deenavii de diyaa gayaa. koii khaas farq nahii.n pa.Dataa thaa." Now it
seems every bit reasonable to me that he would not call these songs
entrirely his own and not be comfortable to call one of these as his
debut song. He said that there may be some small things here and there
that he could have written, but in hindsight the song that he could
call clearly and seriously his first is 'moraa goraa a.ng lai le'.
That's the whole story of Gulzar Deenvi. Now you are free to make your
opinions. Call them his songs if you will. But IMHO, The one who wrote
those songs is the best person to decide which one was his first song.
I have to note here that this talk happened about two years ago and I
am writing from memory, so the words are not exact.
Vinay
Anand Tiwari
his first song when it is quite clear that he did write songs prior to
that for hindi films. Where did he invent the stuff about working at a
garage in Delhi if he was writing a few lines here and there (as he
claims) in Mumbai at the same time.
Currently, in the hindi film industry we have the 2 greatest shairs of
all times: they are Gulzar and Javed Akhtar. Naturally, Gulzar being
the great poet that he is wants to show that he started off with a bang
with 'mora gora ang lai le'. He even has commentary on how Bimal Roy
and SDB clashed over the song picturization of this song. Now such
things can happen only in the context of the first song of a great poet
i.e Gulzar
Anyway IMO Gulzar's songs don't hold a candle to Shailendra's creations
for the same movie. Leave that, Gulzar's songs as an established
lyricist for high profile movies like 'Anand' were decidedly inferior
to Yogesh's creations for the same movie.
As for who wrote 'mora gora ang lai le', the matter cannot be resolved
because Shailendra is dead. But then I don't care about this song from
Bandini. If there is one song in the soundtrack that gets me everytime,
it is 'ab ke baras bhej bhaiya ko babul' by Shailendra. In my opinion,
the depth of emotions this song conveys is unmatched.
anand
PS: IMO Gulzar is neither a hindi kavi nor a urdu shair but he probably
still is a poet. Javed Akhtar cannot even claim to be a poet. His only
real claim to fame is that he was the personal assistant to Kaifi Azmi
during the latter's illness.
Abhay Jain
"Anand Tiwari" <anand...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> still is a poet. Javed Akhtar cannot even claim to be a poet. His only
> real claim to fame is that he was the personal assistant to Kaifi Azmi
> during the latter's illness.
>
That explains how Shabana Azmi and Javed Akhtar got hitched.
AJ
Satish Kalra
news:CYg9e.8447$V02....@fe08.lga...
No, they have been "hitched" together for quite a long time now, as
'husband' and 'wife' (read that as 'not just living together'). :-)
{Kaifi Azmi passed away not too long ago.}
--
Happy Listenings.
Satish Kalra
Archisman
> If there is one song in the soundtrack that gets me everytime,
> it is 'ab ke baras bhej bhaiya ko babul' by Shailendra. In my opinion,
> the depth of emotions this song conveys is unmatched.
>
> anand
And it underlines the fact that Shailendra (in my humble opinion) has
been the greatest Hindi Film lyricist of all time. Closely followed by
Rajinder Krishan. Phrases like 'ja ja ke ritu laut aaye' and 'aaj phir
jeene ki tamanna hain....aaj phir marne ka iraada hain' are immortal.
(I'm no expert on poetry and understand very little of chaste urdu.
Hence I may be way off the mark. Just shared what I felt.)
Regards-Archisman.
pramod
This has been one interesting discussion. Thanks to the original
contributor for reporting Gulzar's "early songs". I find Shailendra
and Gulzar to be fine poets, each with his own style.
Now we have two stands on the problem of "mora goraa ang". One is the
claim of Shailendra's daughter and the other one of Gulzar. Gulzar
fans (like me) would think Gulzar is right and Shailendra's fans would
believe his daughter.
I, myself, don't know, why Shailendra's daughter makes this claim.
What comes in my mind is tha fact, that Shailendra at the time of
'Bandini' was an established lyricist and if he had written the lyrics
of the afore mentioned song, why couldn't he claim the right of his
name to appear on the disc cover?
Anyway, if Shailendra or Gulzar wrote it, it doesn't make the song any
worse!
Let us discuss the song, that would be more fun!
I find that people always speak bad of one person to show that the
other is better. This doesn't make sense. Long time ago I watched a
"Kavi Sammelan", where a poet (I forget his name now) laments upon
this very fact. He said (in lyrics naturally) "Mother, you showed me
that to make one line small you only have to draw a big line near it.
But, mother, people are always rubbing the line, cutting it....."
If we degrade Shailendra, or Javed Akhtar for that matter, doesn't
make Gulzar a better one. If we like Gulzar, let us talk about the
beauty of his phrases! Why talk how rubbish somebody else is?
I think Gulzar, Shailendra or Javed Akhtar would prefer it as well!
:-)
Don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, and am sorry if I did so!
Thanks to everybody for all the info!
best regards
Pramod
"Anand Tiwari" <anand...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<1113933550.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>...
irfan
Pramod ji, I hope we all follow this.
An excellent food for thought.
Regards,
Irfan
Surjit Singh
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050420/delhi.htm#7
Gulzar launches Urdu portal
Tribune News Service
New Delhi, April 19
Celebrated lyricist and filmmaker Gulzar launched Urdutehzeeb.com – the
world’s largest Urdu web portal here today.
Ahmed Faraz, the renowned poet from Pakistan, presided over the
launching ceremony.
The ceremony took place at the Russian Cultural Centre, Ferozshah Road.
Writers, journalists, educationists, intellectuals and important people
from different walks of life attended the ceremony.
Urdutehzeeb.com is catering to Urdu-speaking people all over the world.
Over the last few months of test run, it has been getting several
hundreds of thousands of hits from all over the world.
There are 500 million people who speak Urdu.
India has four times the number of Urdu-speaking people as compared to
Pakistan.
This language is spoken all over South Asia and even in Southeast Asian
countries.
A large number of Urdu-speaking people live in the United Kingdom, the
United States, Canada and the Gulf countries. Urdutehzeeb.com is a
project of Punjabi Millennium, which runs the immensely popular web
portal, Punjabilok.com.
Abhay Jain
"Surjit Singh" <surjit...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3cnu8uF...@individual.net...
> In other news:
>
> http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050420/delhi.htm#7
>
> Gulzar launches Urdu portal
> Tribune News Service
>
> New Delhi, April 19
> Celebrated lyricist and filmmaker Gulzar launched Urdutehzeeb.com – the
> world’s largest Urdu web portal here today.
>
> Ahmed Faraz, the renowned poet from Pakistan, presided over the launching
> ceremony.
>
> The ceremony took place at the Russian Cultural Centre, Ferozshah Road.
> Writers, journalists, educationists, intellectuals and important people
> from different walks of life attended the ceremony.
>
A Sikh, who writes songs for Hindi films,
launches Urdu portal at the Russian cultural center.
No sarcasm intended.
AJ
Surjit Singh
Abhay Jain wrote:
And a Jain is pointing it out :)
> No sarcasm intended.
>
> AJ
Satish Kalra
>
>
> Abhay Jain wrote:
>
> > "Surjit Singh" <surjit...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:3cnu8uF...@individual.net...
> >
> >>In other news:
> >>
> >>http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050420/delhi.htm#7
> >>
> >> Gulzar launches Urdu portal
> >>Tribune News Service
> >>
> >>New Delhi, April 19
> >>Celebrated lyricist and filmmaker Gulzar launched Urdutehzeeb.com – the
> >>world’s largest Urdu web portal here today.
> >>
> >>Ahmed Faraz, the renowned poet from Pakistan, presided over the
launching
> >>ceremony.
> >>
> >>The ceremony took place at the Russian Cultural Centre, Ferozshah Road.
> >>Writers, journalists, educationists, intellectuals and important people
> >>from different walks of life attended the ceremony.
> >>
> >
> >
> > A Sikh, who writes songs for Hindi films,
> > launches Urdu portal at the Russian cultural center.
>
> And a Jain is pointing it out :)
Globalization personified. :)
--
Happy Listenings.
Satish Kalra
>