MP3
Mohan
Does anyone know where to load complete Hindi song in MP3 format
naniwadekar
"Mohan" <m.mal...@btinternet.com> wrote -
>
> Does anyone know where to load complete Hindi song
> in MP3 format
>
'Rupa Underwear and Baniyan' innovators are designing
the latest wave of undergarments which will accept 'complete
Hindi songs', pissed out by composers, in mp3 format. By
the time you have grown up enough to warrant the use
of underclothes, the design will surely have hit the market.
V S Rawat
>
> Hi
> Does anyone know where to load complete Hindi song in MP3 format
First, apologies for this stupid naniwadekar's blabbering. It is usual
practice for RMIM OLDIES MAFIA to discourage new members and they have
succeeded in several newbies unsubsribing by these dirty tricks. You
need to weather it out in your own way.
-----------
Coming back to your query.
You need to make a website for that.
The most popular and easy is: go to http://www.geocities.com and book
space for your website. it is free.
You need to have a yahoo id for that. Go to mail.yahoo.com and get a
free id. Your id will be your website name like this
http://www.geocities.com/youryahooid
Then you can upload your songs and any file over there.
You can have a html page to facilitate visitors to know what all files
you have kept there. But, even without this, you can send direct url
of your mp3 file to others and they can directly download it clicking
on it like.
http://www.geocities.com/youryahooid/songfilename.mp3
----------------
do write here something about your collection and the softwares you
are using for the conversion. RMIMers are not "techy" even by far
shot, but at least some hints can be given.
It is a good thing that you are sharing your music. Keep it up.
-Rawat
Afzal A. Khan
V S Rawat wrote:
>
> Mohan wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> > Does anyone know where to load complete Hindi song in MP3 format
>
> First, apologies for this stupid naniwadekar's blabbering. It is usual
> practice for RMIM OLDIES MAFIA to discourage new members and they have
> succeeded in several newbies unsubsribing by these dirty tricks. You
> need to weather it out in your own way.
I must compliment you on a very sensible reply.
BTW, what exactly is the RMIM OLDIES MAFIA ?
Probably you are referring to "some" who have been
RMIMers since the very beginning or for many many
years. I do hope your reference is not to those
of us who are "seniors" in terms of age. Most of
us like Messrs. Kamalakar Pasupuleti, Kalra, Guri,
Urzung Khan are by no means members of any Mafia.
For that matter, many of the younger lot too like
Arunabha Roy, Srinivas Ganti etc. cannot be
classified in this category.
Afzal
Surjit Singh
>
> I must compliment you on a very sensible reply.
>
> BTW, what exactly is the RMIM OLDIES MAFIA ?
> Probably you are referring to "some" who have been
> RMIMers since the very beginning or for many many
> years. I do hope your reference is not to those
> of us who are "seniors" in terms of age. Most of
> us like Messrs. Kamalakar Pasupuleti, Kalra, Guri,
> Urzung Khan are by no means members of any Mafia.
> For that matter, many of the younger lot too like
> Arunabha Roy, Srinivas Ganti etc. cannot be
> classified in this category.
What about Ashok, Ketan, UVR, Chetan, Gurcharan, Nani, Vish, and, above
all, me?
Surely the fact that nobody has dropped what they were doing in their
lives, however urgent and important, and nobody has met his requests
immeditately must mean the existence of Mafia. There cannot be any other
explanation.
>
> Afzal
--
Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(atic), period.
http://hindi-movies-songs.com/index.html
naniwadekar
"Afzal A. Khan" <me_a...@privacy.net> wrote -
>
> BTW, what exactly is the RMIM OLDIES MAFIA ?
>
IMO, a poster owes it to the forum to explain his
position in proper detail. For all I know, the original
poster wants to know how to download, and not upload,
songs in mp3 format but does not know how to express
his thoughts. Still, if someone wants to help him, I have
no issues with it. It's only that I will exercise my prerogative
to deal with such lazily put queries in unfriendly terms
if I so wish. And you have the prerogative to comment.
So why not exercise it in straightforward manner?
Quite importantly, 'Mafia' means an organised operation.
Rawat nurses some stupid complex about it. I am surprised
you name just 5-6 names who are not part of any Mafia.
I cannot think of even *one* name who is *organising* any
sort of predatory operation(s). You should be fair and direct
your criticism straight at me instead of trying to use the
smokescreen of Mafia raised by Rawat's hallucinations.
As things stand, every member not named by you as free
of Mafia associations is potentially guilty. I wouldn't wish
to accuse anybody of being part of any RMIMafia.
- dn
UVR
> Hi
> Does anyone know where to load complete Hindi song in MP3 format
I'm assuming that you are looking for sites from where you can
*download* Hindi songs.
Try searching on SingingFish dot Com with the name of the singer
(more useful) or a few words from the beginning of the song.
IndianScreen dot Com and HindiSong dot Com have also provided
me some good songs from time to time.
If you're looking for a specific song, searching on Google is
also likely to be of help.
-UVR.
UVR
>
> Most of us like Messrs. Kamalakar Pasupuleti, Kalra,
> Guri, Urzung Khan are by no means members of any Mafia.
> For that matter, many of the younger lot too like
> Arunabha Roy, Srinivas Ganti etc. cannot be
> classified in this category.
I'd like to sign up to be on this list too, please. Where do
I sign up?
-UVR.
Afzal A. Khan
This is a response to all three of you (Surjit Singh,
Naniwadekar and UVR) :
The term (RMIM Oldies Mafia) was used by Rawat and my question
was directed to him. I suppose he is the best person
to answer this query.
I did feel a little perturbed at the use of the word
"Oldies", hence my question. I think it would be in the
fitness of things if Rawat were to offer some explanation
so as to assuage any "injured feelings". I can't quite
accept that he had Nani in mind, for Nani is neither "old"
nor has he been an RMIMer for that long a time.
The doubt expressed by Nani (as to the real intent of
Mohan) had crossed my mind too. Despite that, Rawat
took the time to explain things in a very clear manner.
My compliment to him has to be taken in that context.
Of course, it didn't imply any criticism of anyone else.
If one feels gratified at a sensible response and says
so, this simple act need not be described as "excercising
a prerogative".
As far as "inclusion" in the "non-Mafia" category is
concerned, I thought the "etc." in my reply covered all
"aspirants" ! Or maybe Rawat is the arbiter in that respect.
Afzal
naniwadekar
"V S Rawat" <vsr...@datainfosys.net> wrote -
>
> It is a good thing that you are sharing your music. Keep it up.
>
RMIMers, taken as an entity, do know about sharing music
and its benefits. But the kind of blanket approval expressed
by you is stupid. The specifics (or do's and don'ts) of sharing
have been discussed many times on rmim; so I won't
repeat them.
>
> do write here something about your collection ...
>
I have told two dhobis, 3 sunaars, 4 lohaars, 5 ex-PMs
and 6 ARR-wannabes (all of whom are decent composers,
btw) that Rawat is looking to hear about the collection of
anybody and everybody. Many agreed to share their
thoughts and I will be the middle-man. The first instalment
in the series will be posted tomorrow : We will hear about
the collection of a Dhobi named V P Singh.
- dn
V S Rawat
>
> V S Rawat wrote:
> >
> > Mohan wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi
> > > Does anyone know where to load complete Hindi song in MP3 format
> >
> > First, apologies for this stupid naniwadekar's blabbering. It is usual
> > practice for RMIM OLDIES MAFIA to discourage new members and they have
> > succeeded in several newbies unsubsribing by these dirty tricks. You
> > need to weather it out in your own way.
>
> I must compliment you on a very sensible reply.
>
> BTW, what exactly is the RMIM OLDIES MAFIA ?
> Probably you are referring to "some" who have been
> RMIMers since the very beginning or for many many
> years. I do hope your reference is not to those
> of us who are "seniors" in terms of age.
not at all.
Any "oldies" reference in rmim is to the age of the songs one likes,
not to the age of member.
There are some senile elements in rmim who like oldies (30s to 50s) so
much and nothing else, and they keep bombarding on anyone who dares
speak of 90s music. Mr D Naniwadekar is the sarpa.nch of such gang and
he had used his cat-o-nine-tail on several members for having
committed that sin. He had called people idiot, stupid, mad, dog,
worthy-of-getting-shot, and other gems, for liking recent music.
The tone of Mr Naniwadekar's retort implies that he assumed the query
was for recent music, to quote him, "pissed out by composers".
> Most of
> us like Messrs. Kamalakar Pasupuleti, Kalra, Guri,
> Urzung Khan are by no means members of any Mafia.
> For that matter, many of the younger lot too like
> Arunabha Roy, Srinivas Ganti etc. cannot be
> classified in this category.
>
> Afzal
To restate:
Anyone who is not bashing people for liking a different genre of music
is not in a mafia. (as per my definition).
btw, there are several different mafias active in RMIM. Apart from
above old-music-lover--new-music-basher mafia mentioned above, another
prominent one is isb-mafia comprising of several persons, including
some of them whom you mentioned in the above list, who consider isb
their private property, who are entitled to private isb releases, who
keep secrets of isb's private release information, who do not share
information on songs included in isb, who keep on releasing fatwa on
which songs should go in isb, which should be excluded from isb, so
on.
But that is another story.
-Rawat
Ashok
>> First, apologies for this stupid naniwadekar's blabbering.
In article <40425924...@privacy.net>, me_a...@privacy.net says...
> I must compliment you on a very sensible reply.
OK, so far.
> BTW, what exactly is the RMIM OLDIES MAFIA ?
> Probably you are referring to "some" who have been
> RMIMers since the very beginning or for many many
> years. I do hope your reference is not to those
> of us who are "seniors" in terms of age.
Coming from an ARR fan like Rawat, by Oldies he almost
certainly means the period of music.
Most of
> us like Messrs. Kamalakar Pasupuleti, Kalra, Guri,
> Urzung Khan are by no means members of any Mafia.
> Afzal
What's guri doing there? He is just a kid!
Ashok
Afzal A. Khan
Thanks for clarifying certain matters.
As a general rule, encouraging/assisting newcomers
to RMIM is the right course of action. Maybe, in a
few cases, their questions or queries may be inane
or downright "stupid", as has been remarked by someone.
But such instances can simply be ignored. Just my
opinion. And I repeat the caveat : "as a general rule".
As far as the "age" of the songs is concerned, I haven't
really been able to fathom the hostility or hatred that
some people seem to express against the music or music
personalities of any specific era. Everybody has likes
and likes, but these need not be "age/era" specific.
My own favourite era is the musical period from the mid-
forties to the mid-sixties. But I do happen to like a
a great many albums/individual songs from, say, the
nineties and onwards. I liked ARR's music in, say,
"Rangeela", Jatin-Lalit's in "DDLJ" etc., Anu Malik's
in "Refugee". I don't see any contradictions here.
Can we not emphasise the areas of agreement and enjoyment
in our posts, rather than indulging in negative
postures ?
And, lastly, a poser for Mohan who began this thread :
your real desire ("upload vs. download") and whether
Rawat's reply helped you in any way.
Afzal
naniwadekar
> in our posts, rather than indulging in negative postures ?
>
No. Refusal to condemn the musical vandalism of the last
30-40 years is partly responsible for the sorry state of
music today.
Let me quote (again) the profound signature of a frequent
Usenet poster on Baseball forums. (I discovered this quote
last year and, I need hardly add, I agree vehemently with it.)
"A critic who refuses to attack what is bad is not a whole-hearted
supporter of what is good."
-Robert Schumann
- dn
Karthik S
You might never understand why your post has resulted in so many responses
:-)) and why most of them are talking of something else other than your
query - i.e "load complete Hindi song in MP3 format".
First, if you meant you wanted to "DOWNload" mp3 songs (which I presume was
your query), places you should start with include www.coolgoose.com, get
yourself a free account and search using their somewhat flawed search
option. This is THE best source of popular Hindi tracks at this point, in my
opinion. Besides, if you are adequately net savvy, check P2Ps like Kazaa,
Soulseek and/or WinMX. The percentage of Indian/ Hindi tracks through these
P2Ps are less, but you never know...that song which you've been looking for,
for a long time, just might be there in Soulseek!
Next, if you wanted to "UPload" complete hindi mp3 songs so that others may
download....again, www.coolgoose.com is the best place to start with.
Hope this helped.
Karthik
www.iespana.es/i2fs/
"Mohan" <m.mal...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:c1qpu6$kvp$1...@hercules.btinternet.com...
V S Rawat
A critic is to decide on the basis of individual game or individual
shot whether it is well played or not.
Any critic saying that all games from 1990 to 2004 have to be bad is
no critic at all.
-Rawat
Mohan
eloquent as some the members. I only wanted to know best site for
DOWNLOADING-Hindi music. I am learning...
"Karthik S" <in...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c1v2qi$1mqerk$1...@ID-134554.news.uni-berlin.de...
Animesh Kumar
Loony Tunes
"V S Rawat" <vsr...@datainfosys.net> wrote in message
news:404326AB...@datainfosys.net...
>
> A critic is to decide on the basis of individual game or individual
> shot whether it is well played or not.
Probably *some* generalization is allowed.
>
> Any critic saying that all games from 1990 to 2004 have to be bad is
> no critic at all.
Wah...kya jawaab hai...mazaa aa gaya.
lt
>
> -Rawat
Pankaj Kakkar
Please consider buying the music that you are thinking of downloading.
Thanks,
Pankaj
"Mohan" <m.mal...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:c1qpu6$kvp$1...@hercules.btinternet.com...
Ritu
> >
> > "A critic who refuses to attack what is bad is not a whole-hearted
> > supporter of what is good."
> > -Robert Schumann
> >
>
> A critic is to decide on the basis of individual game or individual
> shot whether it is well played or not.
>
> Any critic saying that all games from 1990 to 2004 have to be bad is
> no critic at all.
Well-said Rawat! I agree with you in this issue and on the larger
issue of behaviour towards newcomers. The RMIM Old boys network (for
all you know I too might be a part of it) can be very intimidating for
anyone who does not have the temperament and tenacity to weather out
unfriendly remarks, uncalled for attacks and a general propensity to
fight out for every little thing they say. I know of quite a few music
lovers who have a lot to contribute but don't have the courage. If I
had not attended RMIM Meets I might never had the courage to post on
this group myself.
This is sad because RMIM is a group that has people with not a only a
vast knowledge but also a high level of intellect... but unfortunately
we are heading towards becoming a cynical, arrogant and opinionated
group that is ready to bite without provocation. And it's not only one
or two people.. all of us are responsible in a little way. And that
includes the silent spectators who might not agree but end up
encouraging this behaviour with their silence. I too am guilty of this
so many times myself. I have the answer to questions people ask but am
too lazy to respond which does convey an unfriendly message to a
newcomer.
I certainly don't say that suffer fools in silence. But alteast give
people a chance. Let them become comfortable enough with the group
before you start to snap and bite. Also lets not selectively welcome
people whose music taste matches the taste of the majority and be rude
to the rest. I remember some poor LP fan was hounded out because he
dared to praise the much maligned duo. I don't care much for modern
film music myself but I don't see why once in a while we can't have
discussions on AR Rahman or Shankar Ehasaan Loy. Different opinions
can co-exist and everyone just ends up expanding their horizons in
such a case. Ignore discussions that do not suit you. Don't bite!.
And I know this is an unmoderated group where everyone has a right to
say what they want. But doesn't the individual responsability to
behave also increase with the lack of moderation?
Maybe as a group we need to rethink where we are heading? Or maybe I
am just blabbering but this is something I have been feeling for a
while now.
Regards,
Ritu
>
> -Rawat
naniwadekar
"Ritu" <rc0...@rediffmail.com> wrote -
>
> >
> > A critic is to decide on the basis of individual game or
> > individual shot whether it is well played or not.
> >
> > Any critic saying that all games from 1990 to 2004 have to be bad is
> > no critic at all.
>
> Well-said Rawat!
>
Rawat is merely spitting out an assertion, a bit like a minister
trying to defend his breed by arguing that all of them cannot
possibly be corrupt. You and Loony are responding like
sheep. If a statement sounds like a clever argument, let
all of us clap.
I say (nearly) ALL post-1990 songs are utter junk, dished
out for unthinking sheep which would consider the mere thought
of condemning a whole decade as filled with junk too extreme
to contemplate. Personally, I find it sad that a veteran like Afzal
Sahab tries to defend mediocre films like DDLJ. The modern
films are okay for 5-10 seconds' amusement like Manisha
or Karishma bending over and a dancer (Prabhudeva?)
tapping her ass for 4-5 beats of some theka or some hero
approaching Karishma's uninteresting, masala-less cheeks
with 'bhel-puri khaaoonga' action (followed by action like
drunk-kangaroos jumping on one foot), but good music in
modern films? Tauba. Tauba.
Why don't you and Loony post your top-10 post-1990 songs?
At least, the lists will make me laugh with entries for 'tuu hii re'
and worse rubbish. After my wonderful post, all readers surely
owe me a laugh in return now. Gosh! Rawat and his mafia have
made the place so grim of late.
- dn
Pankaj Kakkar
> At least, the lists will make me laugh with entries for 'tuu hii re'
> and worse rubbish. After my wonderful post, all readers surely
> owe me a laugh in return now. Gosh! Rawat and his mafia have
> made the place so grim of late.
Why don't you post your top-10 pre-1990 songs? At least, the list will make
me laugh with entries for 'Jyoti Kalash Chalke' and worse rubbish.
Pankaj
PS: People who remember me will probably appreciate the 'JKC' sarcasm there
more than others.
naniwadekar
"Ritu" <rc0...@rediffmail.com> wrote -
>
> I remember some poor LP fan was hounded out because he
> dared to praise the much maligned duo.
>
Your memory is selective and choice of words poor. He was
asked to justify some of his choices (by somebody whose name
I don't remember), his execrable transliteration was pointed out
to him and he may have nothing more to contribute after posting
his long lists. You have also forgotten that some LP-basher
(maybe RK) had commended him because his 'daring' in
supporting LP had made him list a bunch of nice songs nicely
gathered together in one thread.
>
> Also lets not selectively welcome people whose music
> taste matches the taste of the majority and be rude
> to the rest.
>
I don't know about this 'matching tastes' business. Mohan
started the thread with a message so ill-written that many
of us had no choice but to assume that he meant 'download'
when his words pointed to 'upload'. Subsequently he has
even revealed reasonable ability to construct sentences in
English. But to begin with, of course, it was okay for him to
treat others as if they owed him the answer. Then remember
that adults of the human race are supposed to be able to
convey their point reasonably well and read the original post
again and try not to laugh at the mind-boggling combination
of stupidity and laziness.
- dn
naniwadekar
"Pankaj Kakkar" wrote -
>
> PS: People who remember me ...
>
Baby Pankaj - I do remember you -- as a tantrum-master
who threatened to walk out of rmim for rest of the year
on 16 May last year. Now that your yearly rmim-check
is over, resume whatever you have been doing until next
year, preferably next decade.
Pankaj Kakkar
"naniwadekar" <nani3...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c20pjl$1o8atc$1...@ID-75735.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Pankaj Kakkar" wrote -
> >
> > PS: People who remember me ...
> >
>
> Baby Pankaj - I do remember you
Answer my question, nani. I've been around this ng from far before you
discovered it and started spouting your nonsense. So answer my question, or
admit defeat.
Pankaj
Pankaj Kakkar
> asked to justify some of his choices (by somebody whose name
> I don't remember), his execrable transliteration was pointed out
> to him and he may have nothing more to contribute after posting
> his long lists. You have also forgotten that some LP-basher
> (maybe RK) had commended him because his 'daring' in
> supporting LP had made him list a bunch of nice songs nicely
> gathered together in one thread.
Wow, took you this long to google for the thread? What's the problem,
getting senile, nani?
Must be all that crap oldies music.
Pankaj
naniwadekar
"Pankaj Kakkar" <pan...@microsoft.com> wrote -
>
> I've been around this ng from far before you discovered it ...
>
"If a farmer asks his younger brother to work in the farm
for a day, the brother does not ask the bulls what to do
just because the bulls are on the farm for a longer period."
- An ancient proverb
I mean Ketan, too, has been on this group from day one.
- A painfully sacred fact
And he keeps talking about it, too.
- An easily ignored periodic dhwani on rmim.
Pankaj Kakkar
naniwadekar
>
Return home before it gets dark. The bulls know the way
well; take their help if you get confused.
Pankaj Kakkar
Why don't you post your top-10 pre-1990 songs? At least, the list will make
Loony Tunes
> to contemplate. Personally, I find it sad that a veteran like Afzal
> Sahab tries to defend mediocre films like DDLJ. The modern
Yup it is really sad.
> films are okay for 5-10 seconds' amusement like Manisha
> or Karishma bending over and a dancer (Prabhudeva?)
> tapping her ass for 4-5 beats of some theka or some hero
> approaching Karishma's uninteresting, masala-less cheeks
> with 'bhel-puri khaaoonga' action (followed by action like
> drunk-kangaroos jumping on one foot), but good music in
> modern films? Tauba. Tauba.
Ram...Ram...Did anybody claim these to be masterpieces of art or are we
getting somewhere here?
>
> Why don't you and Loony post your top-10 post-1990 songs?
What is the relevance of this to the thread ? Further, how is it related to
applauding an assertion....AFAIK, Rawat's response was well timed and a
smart retort...You dont have a response to that assertion as it stands.
> At least, the lists will make me laugh with entries for 'tuu hii re'
> and worse rubbish. After my wonderful post, all readers surely
After all neither I nor Ritu asked you to post your top 10 pre 1935 songs
did we? What would that prove....that you have a superior taste in
music...maybe...so...BIG DEAL..What's the beef about? If you want me to say
that you have the ultimate purist's taste in music.....fine...here it
comes...You have an absolutely wonderful sense of music...Good...now what
happened? Dharti phat gayi...aasman pighal gaya....aisa to kuchh nahi
hua....phir kyon Naniwadekar...why do you have to take the stinky path all
the time.....yaad rakkho, tatti karoge tho badbuu aayegi... agarbatti
jalaoge to khushbuu aayegi....(inspired by Sudhirji) the choice is yours.
cheers
loony
@bollyvista.com Amit Malhotra
<m.mal...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>Hi
>Does anyone know where to load complete Hindi song in MP3 format
>
Hi Mohan,
looks like this thread has generated a totally off-topic discussion.
While all the RMIMers are coming to your help, i thought i might give
you a link as well:
www.mp3babu.com (or .net)
it's a search engine that will allow you to search for MP3 songs.
Although I agree with Pankaj's advice, please consider buying the
songs you want to download (if you can find them in a store near you
especially).
Amit Malhotra
naniwadekar
"Loony Tunes" <Looon...@yahoo.com> wrote -
>
> ..You dont have a response to that assertion as it stands.
>
My assertion, if you will read carefully, is that the lists I have
come across listing supposedly *good* post-1990 songs
contain only junk. You don't have to take the words 'top-10'
literally. List 10 *really* good songs over a 10-year span.
I doubt you can complete the list without making me laugh.
Faced with my question, you just repeat that Rawat's
assertion stands?
Just listen to songs in Roti, Bhakta Surdas, Tansen, Lahore,
Sangdil, Jhanjhar, Poonam, Shikari, Babul. It isn't just that
today's songs don't compare with these films. On an absolute
scale, too, they stink.
>
> After all neither I nor Ritu asked you to post your top 10
> pre 1935 songs did we?
>
I can give you a dozen lists of top-10 calibre songs
from 1931-1955 years. The exercise is so easy as
to need no carrying out. Anybody asking for a top-10 list
from old songs as challenge would only look silly.
Just take 10 songs in Aurat (not the 1960s cheapo Aurat)
or 5 each from Khazanchi and Khandan.
< Lot of irrelevant garbage by Loony Tunes snipped >
And it isn't just film music. Compare today's popular bozos
(Ajoy Chakravarty or Rashid Khan) with the *real* classical
giants like Abdul Karim Khan or Bhimsen. Unless you are
hopelessly stupid, you will see the difference in a minute.
- dn
Animesh Kumar
>
> Rawat is merely spitting out an assertion, a bit like a minister
> trying to defend his breed by arguing that all of them cannot
> possibly be corrupt. You and Loony are responding like
> sheep. If a statement sounds like a clever argument, let
> all of us clap.
>
> I say (nearly) ALL post-1990 songs are utter junk, dished
> out for unthinking sheep which would consider the mere thought
> of condemning a whole decade as filled with junk too extreme
> to contemplate. Personally, I find it sad that a veteran like Afzal
> Sahab tries to defend mediocre films like DDLJ. The modern
> films are okay for 5-10 seconds' amusement like Manisha
> or Karishma bending over and a dancer (Prabhudeva?)
> tapping her ass for 4-5 beats of some theka or some hero
> approaching Karishma's uninteresting, masala-less cheeks
> with 'bhel-puri khaaoonga' action (followed by action like
> drunk-kangaroos jumping on one foot), but good music in
> modern films? Tauba. Tauba.
What an exceptional simile! Believe it or not, you can be a great poet,
I could never think of drunk kangaaroos on one foot ;-)
best
Animesh
<snipped>
Animesh Kumar
>
> Well-said Rawat! I agree with you in this issue and on the larger
> issue of behaviour towards newcomers. The RMIM Old boys network (for
> all you know I too might be a part of it) can be very intimidating for
> anyone who does not have the temperament and tenacity to weather out
> unfriendly remarks, uncalled for attacks and a general propensity to
> fight out for every little thing they say. I know of quite a few music
> lovers who have a lot to contribute but don't have the courage. If I
> had not attended RMIM Meets I might never had the courage to post on
> this group myself.
>
Who stops them from discussing? No one. The newcomers have nothing to
discuss pertaining to ARR etc, since they _watch_ or _dance to_ the new
songs. They don't listen it,
Animesh Kumar
Pankaj Kakkar wrote:
>>Why don't you and Loony post your top-10 post-1990 songs?
>>At least, the lists will make me laugh with entries for 'tuu hii re'
>>and worse rubbish. After my wonderful post, all readers surely
>>owe me a laugh in return now. Gosh! Rawat and his mafia have
>>made the place so grim of late.
>
>
> Why don't you post your top-10 pre-1990 songs? At least, the list will make
> me laugh with entries for 'Jyoti Kalash Chalke' and worse rubbish.
>
Atheists laugh at the devotees of God; Steak guzzlers of mid-west laugh
at vegeterianism; etc;
Do these laughters demean devotees or vegeterians?
> Pankaj
>
> PS: People who remember me will probably appreciate the 'JKC' sarcasm there
> more than others.
>
>
--
Satish Kalra
news:8777cccd.04030...@posting.google.com...
...snipped....
I had promised myself (almost) not to jump in on this useless discussion
{which starts off every now and then because of certain uncalled for
remarks by some tunnel-visioned and one-track minded person(s)}.
But I was a little dismayed and saddened by Ritu's post. All I want to say
in response to Ritu's post is that what I see is what I have said in the
past, "bad money drives out good money". It appears that the good old adage
"agar rassii ko patthar par ghiste raho to patthar par bhii nishaan pa.D
jaataa hai.." is becoming true, on RMIM. The constant trumpeting of "Us
versus Them" seems to be taking hold among some regulars and at the same
time driving out some others from the ng altogether. It is just like the
"hai" and "hai.n" usage - more and more we see "hai.n" being used for
singular and "hai" for the plural, as pointed out by Amit Malhotra on
another thread. I myself have pointed it out on different occasions on
different ng's. But it seems to be a losing battle all the time.
...."If I had not attended RMIM Meets I might never had the courage to post
on this group myself."
You are a veteran of at least four (maybe five) meets. Have you seen any
"network", or "mafia" as accused by somebody? On the contrary, I think that
your having attended the meets actually might have helped you shed any
presumptions you may have had about RMIM.
The constant telecasts of various TV serials where everyone is shown
scheming against someone or the other seems to be affecting the thinking
process of even the most intellectual people.
I concur whole-heartedly with Ritu's comment "And I know this is an
unmoderated group where everyone has a right to
say what they want. But doesn't the individual responsability to behave also
increase with the lack of moderation?", with the emphasis on the latter.
Let the actions precede the preaching.
--
Happy Listenings.
Satish Kalra
naniwadekar
"Animesh Kumar" wrote -
>
> What an exceptional simile! Believe it or not, you can
> be a great poet,
>
Sometimes I do believe (mostly when I'm drunk) that
I am already a great poet. When sober, the reality hits
home and even writing prose sentences is a chore. 'Uploading'
gets confused with 'downloading', a-an-the et al cause endless
to-put-or-not-to-put posers plus other mis-steps hurt.
Thank God, there can be no mis-steps when one is drunk.
And, lest I forget, thanks for the compliment.
- dn
naniwadekar
I had written -
>
> Just take 10 songs in Aurat (not the 1960s cheapo Aurat)
>
Before Kalra-ji corrects me : The 1960s so-so SJ film is
Arzoo, not Aurat. But in both cases, Arzoo and Aurat,
Anil-da's film is in a different universe from SJ's film with
the same name.
- dn
Loony Tunes
>
> "Loony Tunes" <Looon...@yahoo.com> wrote -
> >
> > ..You dont have a response to that assertion as it stands.
> >
>
> My assertion, if you will read carefully, is that the lists I have
> come across listing supposedly *good* post-1990 songs
And I thought we were looking at Rawat's assertion. When did you insert your
assertion? Oh..ok..you inserted it now.
> contain only junk. You don't have to take the words 'top-10'
> literally. List 10 *really* good songs over a 10-year span.
> I doubt you can complete the list without making me laugh.
So what does that prove? Does it reveal something people here dont agree
with?
> Faced with my question, you just repeat that Rawat's
> assertion stands?
> Just listen to songs in Roti, Bhakta Surdas, Tansen, Lahore,
> Sangdil, Jhanjhar, Poonam, Shikari, Babul. It isn't just that
> today's songs don't compare with these films. On an absolute
> scale, too, they stink.
Ok..so what is your point then? I agree with your comparison...but I dont
see the point you are trying to make..
I repeat my earlier question, will it reveal some thing more than what
people for most part on this NG already agree with.
> I can give you a dozen lists of top-10 calibre songs
> from 1931-1955 years. The exercise is so easy as
> to need no carrying out. Anybody asking for a top-10 list
> from old songs as challenge would only look silly.
> Just take 10 songs in Aurat (not the 1960s cheapo Aurat)
> or 5 each from Khazanchi and Khandan.
Big deal...so what would you have proven...that the songs during 1931-55 are
the best..ok..so what's your beef against people who listen to songs of the
90s or 21st century. Did anybody blow a trumpet claiming the composers today
are better or the songs are of a high quality? I dont understand your
umbrage.......or your outbursts at anybody who asks the name of a song
composed by ARR or RDB.
Did somebody take the "theka" of discussing only music of 1930-55 here?
> And it isn't just film music. Compare today's popular bozos
> (Ajoy Chakravarty or Rashid Khan) with the *real* classical
> giants like Abdul Karim Khan or Bhimsen. Unless you are
> hopelessly stupid, you will see the difference in a minute.
The fact that you are trying so hard to drive home a point most people on
this NG agree upon only clouds whatever you write in the name of sanity,
with needless bile and reeks of a very putrid mentality.
Chill out dude.
lt
Loony Tunes
"Animesh Kumar" <ani...@eecs.berkely.edu> wrote in message
news:c214e8$qmh$3...@agate.berkeley.edu...
>
> Atheists laugh at the devotees of God; Steak guzzlers of mid-west laugh
> at vegeterianism; etc;
>
> Do these laughters demean devotees or vegeterians?
You should have asked this question to Nani first.....Dont you think?
On second thoughts, why should these laughters demean anything for that
matter?
lt
Ashok
>
>Why don't you and Loony post your top-10 post-1990 songs?
>At least, the lists will make me laugh with entries for 'tuu hii re'
>and worse rubbish.
>- dn
All the talk about Oldies Mafia, 1990s music, "tuu hii re" and such
got me to look up an article posted by an RMIMer who is a "potential"
candidate for the Mafia club-house.
Enjoy!
Ashok
=============================================================
From: Vish Krishnan (vi...@cup.hp.com)
Subject: Re: Sonu Nigam
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.misc
Date: 1996/05/09
I was in India about 6 weeks back, and had an opportunity to watch a Z-TV
recording of SA RE GA MA. It was a children's special with Ranu Mukherji
judging the contest. The oldest kid was probably 14. I was simply not ready
for the shocking performances. All the participants, without exception, had
poise, stage presence and intelligence, and above all, unadulterated talent.
The choice of songs was noteworthy too. The first contestant picked Rehman's
"Tu Hi Re". I just happen to like the song a lot, and this little kid's
handling of the soft note was breathtaking. As good as he was, the second
contestant overshadowed the first, and everyone else, in a wonderfully
balanced rendition of "Dil Hoom Hoom Kare". The voice carried the tune, had
enough but controlled lung power behind it, and was emotionally in with the
song. Utterly impressive. The third singer surprised me a bit when he said
he was learning music from Kalyanji. I thought the composer was no more.
In any case, he was a good example of an excellent voice but probably not
enough power. All that aside, he sang "Akele Hain Chale Aao, Kahaan Ho", and
did a well above average job.
The program also features a "judge's selection" round that means what it says.
Contestants get to sing a song picked by the judge. If they don't know the
song, they can ask for another and so forth. Ranu Mukherji made the honest
disclosure that she had walked in with a kiddie list of songs that was rendered
invalid after what she heard in the first round! So, just off the top of her
head, she made some '90s song suggestions, and here is where for the first
time I heard the "Pehla Nashaa" song (from some recent release scored for by
a latter-day hyphenated pair - Jatin-Lalit??).
Still haven't heard the original version of "Pehlaa Nashaa", but I already
know that the Hindi movie music scene is going to turn around for the better
- some day. The electronically uplifted backdrop may never make way for its
simpler accoustic forerunners, but melody will return. How's that for an
expression of hope!!
In yet another standard feature of the programme, the orchestra picks a scale,
and the moderator then picks a song. The contestant must now sing the selected
song on that key. It is an interesting round and sometimes a tough one.
There are some corner case Hindi songs with enough room for confusion in
the "home base" department. I also feel that this particular round of the
contest is somewhat unfair to the female voice. Nevertheless, the idea is
fresh, and it is always a great feeling to witness the whole process. One
almost gets into the contestant's shoes, particularly for those corner case
exceptions.
I had also watched earlier rounds of SA RE GA MA in 1995, and my impression
of Sonu Nigam the moderator has evolved. In this 1996 round, he seemed to
have less of a "filmi" air about him. His reaction to people in "music" trouble
was more empathetic, and he was supportive without being parental. Overall,
there was less of Sonu Nigam the individual performer/singer in the show. In
a very recent round (that I have not watched yet), the judge was none other than
OP, my friend. Apparently, Sonu Nigam posed the age-old Lata Mangeshkar
question to him, and the composer described the dulcet Lata tone as being made
for better things than the "shokhiyaana andaaz" of his tunes. No bitterness, no
regrets, and even if it unintentionally became a somewhat negative statement
on Asha's voice, I am sure he carried it with his usual professional flair.
The ever-gracious diplomat!
cheers
vish
Tadatmya Vaishnav
>
> I say (nearly) ALL post-1990 songs are utter junk, dished
> out for unthinking sheep which would consider the mere thought
> of condemning a whole decade as filled with junk too extreme
> to contemplate.
Does that mean there are some 90's songs you like? If yes, can you tell
us which songs are these? I, at least, am interested in knowing this, out of
curiosity only.
Thanks,
Tadatmya.
Surjit Singh
aa.Nsuu samajh ke kyo.n mujhe rmeem se tuune giraa diyaa
motii kisii ke haar kaa miTTii me.n kyo.n dabaa diyaa
aa.Nsuu samajh ke kyo.n mujhe
Gazal huu.N kab kintuu mujhe apane pe koii* naaz hai.n
kahaa gayaa hu.N jis pe mai.n chhupaa huaa vo raaz hai.n
jis ne sunaa vo ha.Ns diyaa, ha.Ns ke mujhe Daraa diyaa
aa.Nsuu samajh ke kyo.N mujhe ...
jo naa film me.n khil sakaa mai.n vo rahmanii phuul huu.N
jo kuchh bhii huu.N shacheen kii ik bhaya~Nkar bhuul huu.N
jis ne khilaa paapa.D mujhe, phir mujhe tu.Davaa diyaa
aa.Nsuu samajh ke kyo.n mujhe
merii Kataa muaaf mai.n rmeem me.n bhuule se aa gayaa
varanaa mujhe bhii thaa 'ilam meraa yahaa.N pe kaam kyaa
Duub chalaa thaa rmeem me.n, achchhaa kiyaa jagaa diyaa
aa.Nsuu samajh ke kyo.n mujhe
*Replaced with kui, kuii, koi, koii, as needed. Just shorten or elongate
other sillybals
--
Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(atic), period.
http://hindi-movies-songs.com/index.html
Pankaj Kakkar
I've only met Vish once, and he sure doesn't need my respect, but he gets it
anyway along with a lot of admiration. Not only because he is knowledgable
and humble, but because he has the taste and ability to sometimes like
today's music.
Music of all times, unless it is pure folk music, whether it is the music of
the 30s or the music of the 90s, or opera, or rock, or rap, or hip hop,
whatever, is an acquired taste. It is easy to say that music you don't
understand is "laughable", like Nani does all the time. It is easy to
dismiss something new as ridiculous. My favorite example: Porgy and Bess.
Ridiculed and controversial (politically and musically) when it first came
out, now it is regarded as one of the finest American music works from a
genius of a composer.
There are more examples. Until you start paying attention to a rapper's
lyrics and rhythms, you will always think rap is ridiculous. You can watch
hundreds of rock concerts from the outside, but unless you get into the
groove and the guitar riffs, you'll never understand what the head banging
is all about. And of course, appreciation of 30s music isn't immediate. It
takes a lot of listening, a lot of getting used to, before you can start
understanding and appreciating. Its no wonder so many fans of 'oldie' music
are 'oldies' themselves.
The flip side applies too - however, 'oldies' have closed themselves totally
to new music. They don't wanna take the time to listen to new music. They
don't wanna try and understand it. Its the classic head in the sand
approach. Such denial forces them to think what I wonder - hundreds of
millions of people like it because they are stupid? Because their
appreciation of music is lower? Because these oldies are the only ones who
know music?
No.
I like new music. I'm smart, though not the smartest; my appreciation of
music is decent though not perfect; and I know music quite well too, though
a lot remains to be learnt. So no, none of the above are true. On the other
hand ...
FACT: Hundreds of millions of people like the music of today because IT.
SURE. IS. GOOD.
With soundtracks like Bombay, Roja, Pardes, DDLJ (YES!!), KKHH, Hum Dil De
Chuke Sanam, Devdas, JJWS, Rangeela, Lagaan!!!, Dil Chahta Hai, among many
others, post-90s music doesn't need any apologists. I sure aint one.
Pankaj
PS: Why can't we all just get along? boohoo.
PPS: Even my dad, who knows more about music than anyone I personally know,
after 5 years of me giving him ARR albums as gifts, is a big time ARR fan
now ;-). Take that, oldies mafia!
"Ashok" <adhar...@iimcal.ac.in> wrote in message
news:c219vp$1n93um$1...@ID-74854.news.uni-berlin.de...
Afzal A. Khan
Surjit Singh wrote:
>
> :)**\infinity, lest etc.
>
> aa.Nsuu samajh ke kyo.n mujhe rmeem se tuune giraa diyaa
> motii kisii ke haar kaa miTTii me.n kyo.n dabaa diyaa
> aa.Nsuu samajh ke kyo.n mujhe
>
> Gazal huu.N kab kintuu mujhe apane pe koii* naaz hai.n
> kahaa gayaa hu.N jis pe mai.n chhupaa huaa vo raaz hai.n
> jis ne sunaa vo ha.Ns diyaa, ha.Ns ke mujhe Daraa diyaa
> aa.Nsuu samajh ke kyo.N mujhe ...
>
> jo naa film me.n khil sakaa mai.n vo rahmanii phuul huu.N
> jo kuchh bhii huu.N shacheen kii ik bhaya~Nkar bhuul huu.N
> jis ne khilaa paapa.D mujhe, phir mujhe tu.Davaa diyaa
> aa.Nsuu samajh ke kyo.n mujhe
>
> merii Kataa muaaf mai.n rmeem me.n bhuule se aa gayaa
> varanaa mujhe bhii thaa 'ilam meraa yahaa.N pe kaam kyaa
> Duub chalaa thaa rmeem me.n, achchhaa kiyaa jagaa diyaa
> aa.Nsuu samajh ke kyo.n mujhe
>
> *Replaced with kui, kuii, koi, koii, as needed. Just shorten or elongate
> other sillybals
> > Gazal huu.N kab kintuu mujhe apane pe koii* naaz hai.n
> > kahaa gayaa hu.N jis pe mai.n chhupaa huaa vo raaz hai.n
Tut, tut...
Even after Kalraji's pointed reminder about the
use of "hai" and "haiN" !
Afzal
Afzal A. Khan
Pankaj Kakkar wrote:
> I've only met Vish once, and he sure doesn't need my respect, but he gets it
> anyway along with a lot of admiration. Not only because he is knowledgable
> and humble, but because he has the taste and ability to sometimes like
> today's music.
Respect for and appreciation of Vish : I think this
is one point where all RMIMers (pre-45 or post-99)
will agree.
>
> Music of all times, unless it is pure folk music, whether it is the music of
> the 30s or the music of the 90s, or opera, or rock, or rap, or hip hop,
> whatever, is an acquired taste. It is easy to say that music you don't
> understand is "laughable", like Nani does all the time. It is easy to
> dismiss something new as ridiculous. My favorite example: Porgy and Bess.
> Ridiculed and controversial (politically and musically) when it first came
> out, now it is regarded as one of the finest American music works from a
> genius of a composer.
>
> There are more examples. Until you start paying attention to a rapper's
> lyrics and rhythms, you will always think rap is ridiculous. You can watch
> hundreds of rock concerts from the outside, but unless you get into the
> groove and the guitar riffs, you'll never understand what the head banging
> is all about. And of course, appreciation of 30s music isn't immediate. It
> takes a lot of listening, a lot of getting used to, before you can start
> understanding and appreciating. Its no wonder so many fans of 'oldie' music
> are 'oldies' themselves.
Nicely argued and I, for one, have absolutely no
problem with what is being postulated.
>
> The flip side applies too - however, 'oldies' have closed themselves totally
> to new music. They don't wanna take the time to listen to new music. They
> don't wanna try and understand it. Its the classic head in the sand
> approach. Such denial forces them to think what I wonder - hundreds of
> millions of people like it because they are stupid? Because their
> appreciation of music is lower? Because these oldies are the only ones who
> know music?
>
> No.
I don't quite know why this fallacy still persists
--- that old-timers, as a class, do not like new
music. I have made my position on this issue quite
clear on various occasions. I recall that some two
years back, Kalra-ji had praised the music of "Mann"
on this forum (whether it was plagiarised is another
matter). I am sure other examples of this nature are
available if one were to conduct a search of the
RMIM archives. Also, many of the younger lot are
steadfast admirers of music of earlier eras. So, this
kind of a generalized connection between the age of the
listener and the music period is not quite fair.
Just my view.
Afzal
Surjit Singh
Afzal A. Khan wrote:
>
>>>Gazal huu.N kab kintuu mujhe apane pe koii* naaz hai.n
>>>kahaa gayaa hu.N jis pe mai.n chhupaa huaa vo raaz hai.n
>
>
>
>
> Tut, tut...
>
> Even after Kalraji's pointed reminder about the
> use of "hai" and "haiN" !
>
I am having fun with Ashok's comment that
in Urdu both hai and hai.N are correct!
>
> Afzal
Pankaj Kakkar
> --- that old-timers, as a class, do not like new
> music. I have made my position on this issue quite
> clear on various occasions. I recall that some two
> years back, Kalra-ji had praised the music of "Mann"
> on this forum (whether it was plagiarised is another
> matter). I am sure other examples of this nature are
> available if one were to conduct a search of the
> RMIM archives. Also, many of the younger lot are
> steadfast admirers of music of earlier eras. So, this
> kind of a generalized connection between the age of the
> listener and the music period is not quite fair.
> Just my view.
>
>
> Afzal
I apologize - I didn't mean to lump all in one category. I am acquainted
with Kalra-ji from having met him a couple of times, so I know that he is
not one of the "closed" people. And I agree that the generalized correlation
is not fair - since I'm a (relative) young 'un who is a fan of old songs
(Jyoti Kalash Chalke being one of my all time favorite songs :) ). But a lot
of (vocal) people on this ng are closed in their opinions, and it is very
distressing to hear them bad mouth good music.
Pankaj
naniwadekar
>
> judging the contest. The oldest kid was probably 14. I was
> simply not ready > for the shocking performances. All
> the participants, without exception, had > poise, stage
> presence and intelligence, and above all, unadulterated talent.
>
This is the Kishori Disciples' Syndrome. They sing very well
when providing sangat or reproducing her material on smaller
stage on their own. Why the talent does not translate into
good career, I do not know.
> The choice of songs was noteworthy too. The first contestant
> picked Rehman's "Tu Hi Re". I just happen to like the song a lot ...
>
This is Einstein's (or maybe Naniwadekar's) Theory of Relativity.
The sheer negativity will get to the people and whereas a 1950s
song comparable to 'tu hi re' will (most probably) not draw
fulsome praise from Vish, a 1990s song would.
However, I am puzzled why the choice of 'tu hi re' in
a 1990s talent show is dubbed 'noteworthy' by Vish.
Hundreds of music contests must have had to hear the
song from singers of every age.
I had liked 'dil ho chhotasa' and 'rukmini rukmini' a lot but
neither song has aged all that well for me and neither would
be a top-10 material in any non-junk decade. In 'Bombay',
I liked the first song plus 'hamma hamma' but they aged even
worse. Neither song ought to be a top-10 material for any
decade worth its salt. Same with 'tu hi re'.
After 'Bombay', Rahman has spent close to 10 years
disappointing many of those who had expected good
music from him. And though I do like 'rukmini' and 'hamma',
including them in top-10 would be like making 'sunday
ke sunday' or 'ye zindagi hai yo yo' to speak for their
decade. Such songs, in any sane era, would be amusing
diversions and no more.
Like SDB, RDB or Madan Mohan before him, ARR has
the musician's knack of singing. The delivery of 'urvashi'
has the same magnetism which can be found in 'mehbooba
mehbooba' in RDB's voice. Neither song, IMO, is worth
listening to all that often and esp. in 'Mehbooba' one has
to wade through too much of orchestral muck in between
getting to hear RDB's voice.
- dn
V S Rawat
>
> "Pankaj Kakkar" wrote -
> >
> > PS: People who remember me ...
> >
>
> Baby Pankaj - I do remember you -- as a tantrum-master
> who threatened to walk out of rmim for rest of the year
> on 16 May last year. Now that your yearly rmim-check
> is over, resume whatever you have been doing until next
> year, preferably next decade.
Oh! Mr Naniwadekar bashes not only newcomers, but also good old
members returning to RMIM after a long time.
Which culture do you belong to, Mr Naniwadekar! Ever heard of the word
"Welcome"?
------------
Welcome, Pankaj.
Though you got something from Mr Naniwadekar even before I or anyone
had a chance to wish you well, I do hope that your stay on RMIM will
be long lasting this time and will be very fruitful to you as well as
all members.
btw, Mr Naniwadekar is exposing his bias by declaring that songs like
"tu hii re" are laughable. Members know him and will take it in that
perspective.
Still, beating up a song like JKC just to retort him might not be
appropriate. It is also a lovely song. Very Soothing number. Several
of Sudhir Phadke compostions are quite lovely.
I plead to you not to stoop to Mr Naniwadekar's low level even to get
even.
With Mr Naniwadekar's love for quoting quotes, think about this quote:
"never fight with a pig in the mud. After some time you will find that
you are all covered in filth, and the pig is enjoying the fight."
-Rawat
V S Rawat
>
> Then remember
> that adults of the human race are supposed to be able to
> convey their point reasonably well and read the original post
> again and try not to laugh at the mind-boggling combination
> of stupidity and laziness.
Why are you exempting yourself from human race?
Reckless bashing of other members that you keep on pouring out for one
and all is not exaclty a display of intelligence and alertness of
human race as oppossed to stupidity and laziness.
-Rawat
Pankaj Kakkar
> appropriate. It is also a lovely song. Very Soothing number. Several
> of Sudhir Phadke compostions are quite lovely.
:).
That was just a little sarcasm, so no fear. Really. JKC is one of my all
time favorite songs, as I said in another post.
Pankaj
naniwadekar
"Afzal A. Khan" <me_a...@privacy.net> wrote -
>
> I don't quite know why this fallacy still persists
> --- that old-timers, as a class, do not like new music.
>
Just take old MDs as example. Every one stresses how
music has gone to the dogs. I think it fair to say that
old-timers, not just old MDs, do not like new music.
90% of the times when I walk in RAAGA, the local
music store, I am forced to walk out because of the
sheer volume at which they play whatever junk is being
played. If you can stand it, you are made of far sterner
stuff. I would even say new 'music' has made it impossible
for anybody with half a brain to live properly in India
today or among Indians at any Desi function in US.
At the Singapore Airport last year, 3 TV sets
arranged back to back were showing football, golf and
tennis. The volume was adjusted so tastefully, that
I watched each TV set for 10 minutes each without
being disturbed by other sets' volume. Contrast this
with the music played in luxury coaches in India. I will
say it without apology : Even animals ought to have
enough intelligence not to subject themselves to such
torture as enjoyed by the sadomasochistic Indian
middle classes. Unimaginably stupid songs played at
impossibly high volume.
Re. Lagaan : I have tried to listen to the songs
in Lagaan (esp those by the sisters) and I shut them off
within 5 seconds every time I hear their notes. (I had made
their copy for my car-cassette.) I have even
seen one song on Lagaan's DVD when the singers sang
such a terrible chorus in Malhar that the clouds ran away
in hurry.
I see merit in only one point presented so far : Pre-Lata
music needs tuning-in period. Some may never manage it.
But that is no excuse to listen to stuff which ought to be
beneath human beings.
- dn
naniwadekar
"V S Rawat" <vsr...@datainfosys.net> wrote -
>
> With Mr Naniwadekar's love for quoting quotes, think about this quote:
> "never fight with a pig in the mud. After some time you will find that
> you are all covered in filth, and the pig is enjoying the fight."
>
The quote is appropriate for the thread. Have you seen
the coin on which that quote is printed? You have. Good.
Now see its other side. It says : "If you want fans and your
audience is made of pigs, start rolling in the mud and you
will be famous in no time." The quote is also known as
'A R Rahman's credo'. (Do a google search for 'Rahman
Credo'.)
- dn
Chetan Vinchhi
"Pankaj Kakkar" <pan...@seas.upenn.edu> wrote...
>
> Music of all times, unless it is pure folk music, whether it is the music
of
> the 30s or the music of the 90s, or opera, or rock, or rap, or hip hop,
> whatever, is an acquired taste. It is easy to say that music you don't
Do you mean that folk music is *not* an acquired taste? Could
you elaborate?
> The flip side applies too - however, 'oldies' have closed themselves
totally
> to new music.
This is rather presumptuous. In some places in the US and most
places in India, the airwaves are inundated with new music. While
I can honestly say that I like a few of the newer songs, the
percentage is so low that if I have to take a stand, it will be on the
do-not-like-them side. I do like one or two songs from Dil Se,
Lagaan etc. But I cannot appreciate all the hype surrounding ARR.
I find him repetitive and boring. While listening to some of his songs
(please don't ask me to quote specific tracks. I don't remember) I
am constantly drifting in and out of his other songs or concentrating
on the shortcomings of his orchestration or mixing or something.
The melody simply doesn't hold me. The melody is not even
accorded centrestage too often. This, I find to be a major drawback
as compared to the music of the 50s.
> I like new music. I'm smart,
<snip>
>So no, none of the above are true.
"So"? Can you walk a not-so-smart person through the reasoning?
C
naniwadekar
"Pankaj Kakkar" wrote -
>
> PPS: Even my dad, who knows more about music than anyone
> I personally know,
> after 5 years of me giving him ARR albums as gifts, is a big time
> ARR fan now ;-). Take that, oldies mafia!
>
Moron, what your father likes or does not like has no place
in any musical discussion. There are millions of clueless adults
out there when it comes to music. Your father could be one
of them, too. No one gives a damn which poster's father likes
what music. Stop blabbering irrelevant stuff. You have certainly
proved yourself incapable as evaluator of musical taste and
your certificate to your father cannot be taken seriously.
- dn
naniwadekar
"Mohan" <m.mal...@btinternet.com> wrote -
>
> As a beginner-I was amazed by the response-
>
I am an agent for 'Rupa Underwear and Baniyan' and
they have promised to pay me a fixed amount for every
post which appears in this (tiresome) thread. Thanks
for giving me the chance to make the thread possible.
If I make enough money on this, I may even sponsor
a trip to Switzerland by Rawat and Miss Isabel.
In the circumstances, I must (sincerely) commend you
for not throwing a tantrum and hinting in your follow-up
that you are willing to observe and learn. That is what
all of us are here for, you know.
- dn
Abhay Jain
personal communication.
It is called e-mail.
Don't you guys think you both
are behaving like two teenagers?
AJ
"Pankaj Kakkar" <pan...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:c20rf2$4lk9$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
>
> "naniwadekar" <nani3...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c20rdn$1ntunp$1...@ID-75735.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Pankaj Kakkar" <pan...@microsoft.com> wrote -
> > >
> > > I'll just repeat my question:
>
> Why don't you post your top-10 pre-1990 songs? At least, the list will
make
> me laugh with entries for 'Jyoti Kalash Chalke' and worse rubbish.
>
> Pankaj
>
>
>
Pankaj Kakkar
How old are you, nani? What are your musical qualifications?
Have you ever attended an RMIM meet?
Don't attend any more, nani, coz if I end up there, I'll teach you a lesson
in music and propriety that you won't forget for the rest of your short
life.
Pankaj
Ritu
> Like SDB, RDB or Madan Mohan before him, ARR has
> the musician's knack of singing. The delivery of 'urvashi'
> has the same magnetism which can be found in 'mehbooba
> mehbooba' in RDB's voice. Neither song, IMO, is worth
> listening to all that often and esp. in 'Mehbooba' one has
> to wade through too much of orchestral muck in between
> getting to hear RDB's voice.
If you take a minute out and listen to the 'orchestral muck' you'll
realise how well it integrates with RDB's voice. That song is a
masterpiece. All the hype of it being lifted etc. is needless. RDB's
presentation way surpasses the original.
Though somewhere down I know where you are coming from. I too am not
much of an orchestration freak and like it to be kept to minimum..
which is also why I too am not so fond of modern music. I just had a
heated debate with a friend who felt 'It's the time to disco' is a
fantastic song. But what I have discovered over a period of time is
that people who like modern music are more inclined towards
instrumental than vocal music. And there is a lot of creativity on
that front in modern film music. Shankar Ehsaan Loy is one example
that come to my mind. I think they had some great instrumental pieces
in 'Dil Chahata Hai'.
Since we are discussing modern music here is some stuff post-90s that
I think is very good
1. Tauba tumhaare yeh ishaare - (Chalte Chalte).. a nice
'minimalistic' kind of song with a pleasant melody
2. Woh to hai albela - Kabhi haan kabhi naa
3. Aana mere pyar ko na tum - KHKN
4. Dheeme dheeme gaun -Zubeida
5. Mere mehboob mere sanam - Duplicate
6. Paakhi Paakhi pardesi (Aie ajnabi) - Dil Se .... very haunting
7. Des mere Des mere - Legend of Bhagat Singh ..... There are some
beautiful instrumental pieces here
8. Chappa chappa charkah chale - Maachis
9. Jaane kyon log pyar karte hain .... again a nice minimalistic song
with great use of flute pieces
10. Bumbroo - Mission Kashmir
11. Rang rang mere rang rang mein ..... This song is infectious
12. Dholi thaaro dhol baaje - Hum dil de..
So many off the top of my head.. this is my choice.. Good music is
there. Just as bad music was there in the 30s and 40s too. Infact
Nani.. I found your endorsement of Ashok Kumar's singing over his
brother quite ridiculous (assuming it was not in jest). Ashok Kumar
could barely carry a tune.. the same is with a lot of 30s and 40s
singers.
Regards
Ritu
>
>
> - dn
Loony Tunes
Very true.
There are bad singers, bad compositions in probably every reasonable time
frame you pick. Would that mean that everything during that time frame is
bad? Agreed, the relative percentages of the good to bad vary. I think
everybody agrees on that.
I think Nani's comments on AK vs KK were in jest. In another thread, he
actually rates pre-1971 KK as pretty good and puts him as a genius along
with Talat and Mukesh. I personally would not rate AK as a singing talent
better than KK.
lt
>
> Regards
> Ritu
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > - dn
@bollyvista.com Amit Malhotra
but still :-P
setting wrong examples for the younger generation (like myself ;-) )
ilam ko"ilm" paRheiN, yahii sahii pronounciation hai word kii. There
should be no flexibility there. :-P (I hope Ashok is reading it)
Amit
>>
>> Afzal
@bollyvista.com Amit Malhotra
>enough power. All that aside, he sang "Akele Hain Chale Aao, Kahaan Ho", and
>did a well above average job.
>
>cheers
>vish
This is such a lovely song.
When I read the thread on "na to kaarvaaN ki talaash hai" i kept on
singing the first few lines of that qawwaali for the following week or
so, since i read this thread, i have been humming this song.
Amit
@bollyvista.com Amit Malhotra
<nani3...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Afzal A. Khan" <me_a...@privacy.net> wrote -
>>
>> I don't quite know why this fallacy still persists
>> --- that old-timers, as a class, do not like new music.
>>
>
>Just take old MDs as example. Every one stresses how
>music has gone to the dogs. I think it fair to say that
>old-timers, not just old MDs, do not like new music.
>
>I see merit in only one point presented so far : Pre-Lata
>music needs tuning-in period. Some may never manage it.
>But that is no excuse to listen to stuff which ought to be
>beneath human beings.
>
>
>- dn
>
But Nani, how can one be SO closed minded towards the new music that
comes out? Granted that the quality of music has really deteriorated,
but every once in a while, a good song comes out with a catchy melody,
beautiful words and lovely singing. I guess one has to keep his/her
mind open. One can't just stay in the past, gotta move on. ;-)
Appreciating what is good is always the right thing to do... or in
other words, give credit where credit is due.
Amit Malhotra
>
@bollyvista.com Amit Malhotra
<nani3...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>
>After 'Bombay', Rahman has spent close to 10 years
>disappointing many of those who had expected good
>music from him. And though I do like 'rukmini' and 'hamma',
>including them in top-10 would be like making 'sunday
>ke sunday' or 'ye zindagi hai yo yo' to speak for their
>decade. Such songs, in any sane era, would be amusing
>diversions and no more.
His songs in Pukar are far less talked about, he did have some nicer
numbers in that album.
Amit
Arun Iyengar
news:c20tdp$1okgir$1...@ID-154916.news.uni-berlin.de...
> After all neither I nor Ritu asked you to post your top 10 pre 1935 songs
> did we?
Don't expect Nani to bite it. He likes to give an all-or-nothing color to
music from different periods. "(nearly) ALL post 90s is junk and (nearly)
ALL music pre 1955 is ambrosia". He applies his own so called theory of
relativity selectively. Look at the kid-glove treatment given to *some* of
the 30s and 40s songs that are either amateurish in rendition/composition
and/or raw and/or exhibit nursery-rhyme-level composition skills and/or
plain dull AND then compare it with the level of criticism levelled against
the better songs of the 90s and you have it. Prejudice is high on his
bandwagon and I dare say he is not alone here though he is the Bill Oreilly
of RMIM.
A
--
(Remove 999 to reply)
Loony Tunes
"Arun Iyengar" <arun_iy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c22cji$i...@netnews.proxy.lucent.com...
> Don't expect Nani to bite it. He likes to give an all-or-nothing color to
> music from different periods. "(nearly) ALL post 90s is junk and (nearly)
> ALL music pre 1955 is ambrosia". He applies his own so called theory of
> relativity selectively. Look at the kid-glove treatment given to *some* of
> the 30s and 40s songs that are either amateurish in rendition/composition
> and/or raw and/or exhibit nursery-rhyme-level composition skills and/or
> plain dull AND then compare it with the level of criticism levelled
against
> the better songs of the 90s and you have it. Prejudice is high on his
> bandwagon and I dare say he is not alone here though he is the Bill
Oreilly
> of RMIM.
More like Michael Savage, I would reckon.
Afzal A. Khan
naniwadekar wrote:
>
> "Afzal A. Khan" <me_a...@privacy.net> wrote -
> >
> > I don't quite know why this fallacy still persists
> > --- that old-timers, as a class, do not like new music.
> >
>
> Just take old MDs as example. Every one stresses how
> music has gone to the dogs. I think it fair to say that
> old-timers, not just old MDs, do not like new music.
> - dn
I was not referring to old-timers in general.
The reference was only to RMIMers, who are
"seniors" in terms of age.
I would also like to invite RMIMers' attention to
one point. In this day and age (and on this forum),
most of us wax eloquent about the greatness of "old"
music --- how sweet and melodious it was. But, in its
own time, did the listeners have the same kind of
reverential attitude towards it ? Having lived through
those times (and I am not including the very early
period), I don't think so. For us (i.e. listeners of
that era), that feeling of wonder and awe was just not
there. I suppose it is Nastalgia which makes us pine
for those melodies today. In that sense, one can
perhaps take a more favourable view of the "old"
music as compared to the modern variety --- insofar as
"old-timers" are concerned. I think this has been
going on from generation to generation in all fields,
not merely music --- that feeling of nostalgia about
"the good old days". I can quite visualize today's
(younger) generation's feelings around, say, 2045 ---
"What music we had in the eighties and nineties !
There was Bappi-da and Rahul-da, and yes, Rehman. And
those duos and trios -- Anand Milind, Jatin Lalit &
Shankar, Ehsan, Loy. Wish those times could come back."
Afzal
Animesh Kumar
Loony Tunes wrote:
> "Animesh Kumar" <ani...@eecs.berkely.edu> wrote in message
> news:c214e8$qmh$3...@agate.berkeley.edu...
>
>>Atheists laugh at the devotees of God; Steak guzzlers of mid-west laugh
>>at vegeterianism; etc;
>>
>>Do these laughters demean devotees or vegeterians?
>
>
> You should have asked this question to Nani first.....Dont you think?
>
> On second thoughts, why should these laughters demean anything for that
> matter?
>
> lt
>
If I would ask Nani, I need to reverse the order. Like "Devotees of God
feel sad about the atheists; Vegeterians think that steak guzzlers
should be kind to animals;etc, but do these thoughts lead them anywhere!"
There is always a notion of fleeting and long-lived. You can choose what
you wish to support.
>
--
PS: reply to animesh AT eecs.berkeley.edu
Saving Thyself from Spam
Ritu
> But I was a little dismayed and saddened by Ritu's post. All I want to say
> in response to Ritu's post is that what I see is what I have said in the
> past, "bad money drives out good money". It appears that the good old adage
> "agar rassii ko patthar par ghiste raho to patthar par bhii nishaan pa.D
> jaataa hai.." is becoming true, on RMIM. The constant trumpeting of "Us
> versus Them" seems to be taking hold among some regulars and at the same
> time driving out some others from the ng altogether.
I didn't quite get you Satishji..why does my call for a little bit of
politeness and open-mindedness sadden you of all people? You are one
of the most open-minded people on this forum! All I want to say is
that we all bond(or unbond!) here thanks to our passion for music. Why
does something that makes such a positive difference to most of our
lives(I am assuming.. it does to my life) invoke so much of negetivity
and bad blood on the forum? Is it that somewhere down the line the
music takes a back seat and ego comes forefront? Why is RMIM
increasingly becoming more about personalities and less about music?
Give me a Kishore-Rafi or Asha-Lata war anyday rather than a
Nani-Bodas or Rawat-Sudhir war where there is very little music
discussed.
> ...."If I had not attended RMIM Meets I might never had the courage to post
> on this group myself."
>
> You are a veteran of at least four (maybe five) meets. Have you seen any
> "network", or "mafia" as accused by somebody? On the contrary, I think that
> your having attended the meets actually might have helped you shed any
> presumptions you may have had about RMIM.
You got me wrong. I am certainly not endorsing the view that a 'mafia'
exists. If it does then I would very much be a part of it. Having
attended 4-5 meets I am now in the party that brainwashes new recruits
:)! But I don't know how much of that talk needs to be taken
seriously. I for one, before coming to RMIM had reached a stage of
stagnation with music. I discovered a whole new world of music after
coming here. I am an unabashed brain-washed RMIM recruit :)!
However, the dichtomy between the personas of people in RMIM Meets and
on the group itself is amazing. The meets are full of friendly and
nice people where so many people confess to like RDB, contemporary
music etc. but as a cyber group I don't know why we display this
inflexible, unapproachable persona. It's amazing because most people
are not the way they appear on print.
>
> I concur whole-heartedly with Ritu's comment "And I know this is an
> unmoderated group where everyone has a right to
> say what they want. But doesn't the individual responsability to behave also
> increase with the lack of moderation?", with the emphasis on the latter.
>
> Let the actions precede the preaching.
Sure Satishji... please do give me a rap on my knuckles if I misbehave
at any point in time. Coming from you criticsm is as welcome as words
of praise. This post was not directed at any one person but to all of
us as a group. All I am asking for is.. let's discuss more
music..let's peacfully co-exist. And I think I have already surpassed
my quota for non-musical posts for the week so that's all from my end
on this issue. Back to Shankar-Ehsaan-Loy and AR Rahman. Btw. who set
'Rang rang rang mere rang rang mein' to music?
Regards,
Ritu
naniwadekar
"Pankaj Kakkar" <pan...@seas.upenn.edu> wrote -
>
> Don't attend any more, nani, coz if I end up there,
> I'll teach you a lesson in music and propriety that
> you won't forget for the rest of your short life.
>
This is the expected response from a know-nothing idiot
who can only hide behind his mother's pallo. Last year
you declared that Anil Biswas was senile without arguing
your position. Now your case is : I am smart, my father
is smarter and Anil Biswas is senile.
I say you are an idiot. Your 'mummy-mummy-daddy-daddy'
antics have no place on a music forum. Get lost. Restrict
yourself to discussing music with your father whom you have
dragged to your own (ARR) level.
- dn
naniwadekar
> (younger) generation's feelings around, say, 2045 ---
> "What music we had in the eighties and nineties !
>
The point is : they would be wrong in praising music
of the '80s and '90s.
>
> I would also like to invite RMIMers' attention to
> one point. In this day and age (and on this forum),
> most of us wax eloquent about the greatness of "old"
> music --- how sweet and melodious it was. But, in its
> own time, did the listeners have the same kind of
> reverential attitude towards it ? Having lived through
> those times (and I am not including the very early
> period), I don't think so.
>
I can only comment on this by talking about my brush with
genius. I have listened to the concerts of Mansur, Vasantrao
Deshpande, Bhimsen, Kishori and marvelled there and then
about their quality. Not just that but people senior to these
singers, rasika-s who had heard their gurus, have acknowledged
their brilliance while they were establishing themselves in approx
1951-1960 span. I have also heard concerts/songs by
Ashwini Bhide and Arati Ankalikar (when they were under
30) and MDs like Anand Modak and Shridhar Phadke and
while these names are downgrades from Mogubai or Sudhir
Phadke, there is a lot to appreciate in their output.
So you are simply wrong in suggesting that appreciation
of music may need perspective of time.
Recently I heard some casually put together songs sung
by 3-4 singers, all aged around 30-40, in a drama performed
by naatak.com. (I would like to take back some the praise
I had heaped on it as I discovered after reading its pamphlet
that the author lacks intellectual rigour and honesty.) None of
the singer is likely to have received any training in music.
Tunes were probably lifted from Sai Baba type cabal's music.
But they were so simple and tasteful that I liked them.
Heck, I have heard beggars in Mumbai's locals perform
superb music. But I cannot say the same of Mr Rahman.
- dn
Ket...@att.net
>
>There is anthother medium for
>personal communication.
>It is called e-mail.
>
>Don't you guys think you both
>are behaving like two teenagers?
The problem isn't that they are behaving like teenagers. The problem lies in one
person assuming that the other actually knows something about music or has
objective coherent arguments to put forth and hence is worthy of a
debate/discussion. Remove that illusion and see how quickly this argument ends.
Ketan
Loony Tunes
>
>
> If I would ask Nani, I need to reverse the order. Like "Devotees of God
> feel sad about the atheists; Vegeterians think that steak guzzlers
> should be kind to animals;etc, but do these thoughts lead them anywhere!"
I probably mis-stated my question.
I dont see how either way of stating your *quotes* should make any
difference. Both are according your perspective and as you wish to see one
way or the other. It is by no means a fair generalization.
>
> There is always a notion of fleeting and long-lived. You can choose what
> you wish to support.
I dont disagree with your comment.
I thought your analogy was mis-placed. Can you prove God exists (btw I am
not an atheist)?. Until then, your *long-lived* opinion on theism and
vegetarianism is yours alone.
Thanks for reading
lt
naniwadekar
"Ritu" <rc0...@rediffmail.com> wrote -
>
> I found your endorsement of Ashok Kumar's singing over his
> brother quite ridiculous (assuming it was not in jest).
>
I have not ranked Ashok Kumar's singing above Kishore's.
But I would take his 1940ish songs above KK's 1980ish
songs. If Ashok Kumar had been singing around 1980, he
would have sung good songs judging by the fact that he
hadn't sung even one junk song in his career. I don't know
how you can accuse Ashok Kumar of 'not being able to
carry a tune'. His MDs knew what to compose for him and
he knew how to sing it.
- dn
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
"Pankaj Kakkar" <pan...@seas.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:c21cki$4phh$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
>
> There are more examples. Until you start paying attention to a rapper's
> lyrics and rhythms, you will always think rap is ridiculous.
Caveat - paying more attention to the lyrics may *reinforce* the opinion
that rap is ridiculous. While I definitely respect rappers' ability to
maintain a steady flow of words with some kind of rhythmic grace (a kind of
"layakari"? :-)), with few exceptions, rap lyrics are pretty ridiculous to
me.
You can watch
> hundreds of rock concerts from the outside, but unless you get into the
> groove and the guitar riffs, you'll never understand what the head banging
> is all about.
And all headbanging is not backed up by intelligent guitar riffs, i.e. there
are definitely plenty of instances of "madness" without "method".
And of course, appreciation of 30s music isn't immediate. It
> takes a lot of listening, a lot of getting used to, before you can start
> understanding and appreciating. Its no wonder so many fans of 'oldie'
music
> are 'oldies' themselves.
Is "oldie" music solely from the 1930s? I consider myself a fan of "oldie"
music, but not so much the 1930s - a lot of these melodies sound primitive
to me (primarily the non-Saigal crowd).
> The flip side applies too - however, 'oldies' have closed themselves
totally
> to new music. They don't wanna take the time to listen to new music. They
> don't wanna try and understand it. Its the classic head in the sand
> approach. Such denial forces them to think what I wonder - hundreds of
> millions of people like it because they are stupid? Because their
> appreciation of music is lower? Because these oldies are the only ones who
> know music?
>
> FACT: Hundreds of millions of people like the music of today because IT.
> SURE. IS. GOOD.
The part beginning with "because" is *not* a fact. It's an opinion. "Good
Music" can hardly be "Fact." There are also hundreds of millions of people
who will take whatever you give them.
> With soundtracks like Bombay, Roja, Pardes, DDLJ (YES!!), KKHH, Hum Dil De
> Chuke Sanam, Devdas, JJWS, Rangeela, Lagaan!!!, Dil Chahta Hai, among many
> others, post-90s music doesn't need any apologists. I sure aint one.
Okay, no apologies, but here are some assorted thoughts on your list. I
liked parts of your list, but the Jatin-Lalit soundtracks are some of the
most *lazy* and insipid I've ever heard (I exclude JJWS, at least for Pehla
Nasha). If anyone has milked maximum return out of minimum effort these days
it is them (akin to Shankar-Jaikishan of the late 60s) - one theme/chord
progression equals fifty not-that-interesting songs. For DDLJ, RaamLaxman's
"Didi Tera Devar" in HAHK was such a hit, that J-L came up with "Tujhe Dekha
To" and "Ho Gaya Hai Tujhko" in the *same* flick! K3G is yet another
example - the most interesting songs of this *pathetic* movie (not even
talking about the songs here) were not by J-L. I don't see what's so great
about the songs of Pardes - I am biased against that movie for other
reasons, but whatever I've heard of the songs does not move me in the least.
Both HDDCS and Devdas go to great lengths to impress with a kaleidoscope of
musical colors, but neither has a single song that strikes any emotional
chords with me. I refer to the former as the "Festival of India" soundtrack,
and the second, for its attempts at grandeur, completely vitiates the
simplicity of the Devdas story. Udit's "Vo Chaand Jaisi Ladki" is IMO a
miserable attempt at a Rafi-esque "drunk and brooding" song, and supports my
theory that Udit does not generally deliver on the subdued, sober variety of
song.
I liked Dil Chahta Hai, and Rahman's stuff - in general, I will listen to
Rahman based on his track record with me. One soundtrack of his I like that
I feel is overlooked is "The Legend of Bhagat Singh". On Rahman, I do feel
like he also has a lot of *random*, *noisy* stuff out there. "Zakhm" by M.M.
Kreem was another soundtrack I liked.
While I believe that individuals may be "set in their ways", this "mafia"
thing is silly. You have correctly pointed out Vish Krishnan and Satish
Kalra, but I think there are others on this forum that fit that category. In
my case, I admit I don't entertain high expectations for many of today's
soundtracks, but if I hear something I like, I will make it a point to
mention it any chance I get :-)
Sanjeev
naniwadekar
"Sanjeev Ramabhadran" wrote -
>
> > FACT: Hundreds of millions of people like the music
> of today because IT. SURE. IS. GOOD.
>
> The part beginning with "because" is *not* a fact. It's an opinion.
> "Good Music" can hardly be "Fact."
>
Be gentle to the bozo, Sanjeev. Perhaps his father has not
taught him the difference between 'fact' and 'opinion' .
- dn
naniwadekar
"Sanjeev Ramabhadran" wrote -
>
> Is "oldie" music solely from the 1930s? I consider myself
> a fan of "oldie" music, but not so much the 1930s - a lot
> of these melodies sound primitive
> to me (primarily the non-Saigal crowd).
>
Quite apart from the 'fact' (or opinion, if you must) that even
the primitive melodies sung by Saraswati Devi, Leela Chitnis,
Ashok Kumar, Nalini Jaywant sound very good, there is lot
of non-primitive work, too, by non-Saigal crowd. Prabhat's
films have lovely music. Songs in Jagirdar or Aurat are, far
from being primitive, utterly inspired. And few people have
matched the standard set for Bhajans by Vishnupant Pagnis.
Boral's work with chorus ('mohe tum bin ye jalasaa sohaave
naa') or orchestra (in Har Jeet) takes one's breath away
even today and always will.
- dn
naniwadekar
"Ritu" <rc0...@rediffmail.com> wrote -
>
> 11. Rang rang mere rang rang mein ..... This song is infectious
> 12. Dholi thaaro dhol baaje - Hum dil de..
>
Only # 11 in the list evokes some echo. But the song
I remember goes more like 'rang de rang de (ad nauseum)'.
So we are most probably talking of diff songs. I heard
'rang de' at a concert recently and walked out at that
point. I overheard that the song is from 'Taal' while I
was heading for the exit door.
- dn
Loony Tunes
>
> Only # 11 in the list evokes some echo. But the song
> I remember goes more like 'rang de rang de (ad nauseum)'.
> So we are most probably talking of diff songs. I heard
> 'rang de' at a concert recently and walked out at that
> point. I overheard that the song is from 'Taal' while I
> was heading for the exit door.
Nani, you are referring to the one from Thakshak....it's not from Taal.
The one mentioned by Ritu is not an ARR song. This was from the movie called
Bollywood Hollywood (Lisa Ray and Rahul Khanna)
lt
>
>
> - dn
>
>
>
V S Rawat
>
> I would also like to invite RMIMers' attention to
> one point. In this day and age (and on this forum),
> most of us wax eloquent about the greatness of "old"
> music --- how sweet and melodious it was. But, in its
> own time, did the listeners have the same kind of
> reverential attitude towards it ? Having lived through
> those times (and I am not including the very early
> period), I don't think so. For us (i.e. listeners of
> that era), that feeling of wonder and awe was just not
> there.
I always wondered how people used to saigal and kanan devi had taken a
sudden "shola jo bhadake", "meri jan sunday ke sunday", "mere piyaa
gaye rangoon", and likes, at those times.
Wasn't there a hallagulla about westernisation of music, vulgar
dances, trash lyrics, etc., etc.?
All above being CR's is only coincidental, I could not off hand recall
any naudhad or anil b, or sajjad or husnLbhagatR etc number which were
clearly as western as CR's these popular numbers.
> I suppose it is Nastalgia which makes us pine
> for those melodies today. In that sense, one can
> perhaps take a more favourable view of the "old"
> music as compared to the modern variety --- insofar as
> "old-timers" are concerned. I think this has been
> going on from generation to generation in all fields,
> not merely music --- that feeling of nostalgia about
> "the good old days". I can quite visualize today's
> (younger) generation's feelings around, say, 2045 ---
> "What music we had in the eighties and nineties !
> There was Bappi-da and Rahul-da, and yes, Rehman. And
> those duos and trios -- Anand Milind, Jatin Lalit &
> Shankar, Ehsan, Loy. Wish those times could come back."
are you alleging that Mr Naniwadekar's granchildren will say that?
-Rawat
V S Rawat
It will be interesting to know whether Mr Naniwadekar could succeed in
raising the pathetic music taste of his father to his own high grade
'31-'49 level?
Or did Mr Naniwadekar fail as miserably with his pitashrii as he is
failing in this forum and the old chap is proudly keeping his own
counsel and is listening to all kinds of trash music.
-Rawat
V S Rawat
>
> However, I am puzzled why the choice of 'tu hi re' in
> a 1990s talent show is dubbed 'noteworthy' by Vish.
> Hundreds of music contests must have had to hear the
> song from singers of every age.
>
> I had liked 'dil ho chhotasa' and 'rukmini rukmini' a lot
Rukmini is not usually considered a showpiece of ARR's talents. At
most it shows the daring of ARR that he can conceive, create, and
release such a peculiar song with such peculiar voices and music.
lyrics also did not help it much, with the graphical "khaTiyaa pe
dhiire dhiire khaT khaT hone lagii" on the first night of a couple.
> but
> neither song has aged all that well for me and neither would
> be a top-10 material in any non-junk decade. In 'Bombay',
> I liked the first song
in the cassette, kahanaa hii kyaa was the first one with such a
haunting backdrop of a religious kawwali in a love song.
> plus 'hamma hamma' but they aged even
> worse. Neither song ought to be a top-10 material for any
> decade worth its salt. Same with 'tu hi re'.
>
> After 'Bombay', Rahman has spent close to 10 years
> disappointing many of those who had expected good
> music from him.
What he released in these 10 years might not have got inside your
closed ears, otherwise you would not have said that 1947Earth
disappointed "many of those who had expected good music from him."
This had one of the best music he has ever given. Anyone who is able
to tune in to "ye jo zingadii hai" will be floating among the clouds
for one month. Whatever quick retorts you are trying to come up
against it, I feel a person in '31-'49 music can never know what
floating among the clouds is all about.
And if your zero time of 10 years started with Bombay, you are again
absolutely wrong that Dil Se disappointed everyone. The south indian
lyrics merged in "jiyaa jale" and also to some extent in "dil se re"
had never been done before.
> And though I do like 'rukmini' and 'hamma',
Did you listen hamma's hindi version done by remo? if you liked it,
give a try to its tamil version, rendered by arr himself.
> Like SDB, RDB or Madan Mohan before him, ARR
Madan Mohan's name does not fit here at all. He did not sing at all in
films, let alone singing to the extent of sdb, rdb, arr, or even bappi
lahiri for that matter.
> has
> the musician's knack of singing. The delivery of 'urvashi'
> has the same magnetism
the magnetisms of ARR might get better felt in "dil se re".
"urvashi" and others like "mustafaa mustafaa", however good from the
viewpoint of music/ rendition had a negative point of ill conceived
lyrics. It is another matter that P K Mishra's hands got cut when he
had to dub lyrics for lip syncing on tamil songs.
-Rawat
V S Rawat
> "Arun Iyengar" <arun_iy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c22cji$i...@netnews.proxy.lucent.com...
>
> alone here though he is the Bill Oreilly of RMIM.
>
>
> More like Michael Savage, I would reckon.
In order to know whether you had appreciated nani or have judged him
for his reality, we need to know who are Bill Oreilly and Michael Savage?
He is behaving like a mixture of GhaseeTa Ram and Dr jhaTaka of good
old loTpoT.
-Rawat
V S Rawat
> fantastic song. But what I have discovered over a period of time is
> that people who like modern music are more inclined towards
> instrumental than vocal music. And there is a lot of creativity on
> that front in modern film music. Shankar Ehsaan Loy is one example
> that come to my mind. I think they had some great instrumental pieces
> in 'Dil Chahata Hai'.
It had good poetry also.
Wherever good poetry got combined with good instrumentals, gems got
created whether is 30s or in 90s.
> Since we are discussing modern music here is some stuff post-90s that
> I think is very good
>
A lovely list.
> 1. Tauba tumhaare yeh ishaare - (Chalte Chalte).. a nice
> 'minimalistic' kind of song with a pleasant melody
> 2. Woh to hai albela - Kabhi haan kabhi naa
> 3. Aana mere pyar ko na tum - KHKN
> 4. Dheeme dheeme gaun -Zubeida
> 5. Mere mehboob mere sanam - Duplicate
> 6. Paakhi Paakhi pardesi (Aie ajnabi) - Dil Se .... very haunting
> 7. Des mere Des mere - Legend of Bhagat Singh ..... There are some
> beautiful instrumental pieces here
"des mere" and "sarfaroshi ki tamanna" had two or three different
parts put at different part of the film. And these represented various
stages in the life of bhagat singh and his mental make up depending on
the phases he was passing through and the hardships he was facing.
And the music had been put beautifully to represent it all in its full
glory.
there was one scene in which they were on hunger strike in jail for a
long time and were even denied water by the authotities. When they
were desparately thirsty and asked for water, authorities gave them
milk, drinking which would have implied that hunger strike is over.
Then one portion of the song is carried, and it makes a very quick but
smooth transition from such scarcity to the mentally projected vision
of properous independent India. And in the course of those three four
lines all those hungry, thirsty dying freedom fighters get envigorated
by the inner power and get up and reaffirm their resolve.
It is a point realised by yogis and meditators that beyond a certain
level of atrocitities, body stops bothering about it and a fountain of
inner strength spurts powering one's mind and body. ARR had captured
the essense of it in that part.
That piece of music is beyond description. One needs to listen to it,
and even see that part of the film to realise its full impact. that is
the genius of ARR and his singers/ musicians/ lyricists.
> 8. Chappa chappa charkah chale - Maachis
Its "chho.D aaye ham wo galiyaa.N" had such a reflective liveliness
that also can't be described. The change of everything at "dil dard ka
Tuka.Daa hai" and the slow soft sad end of the song is so captivating.
> 9. Jaane kyon log pyar karte hain .... again a nice minimalistic song
> with great use of flute pieces
:) its "pyaar ke "ghaaT" jo utarate hai.n" has been conceived and
rendered so beautifully mischieviously. This single line conveys the
full essense of the beliefs Aamir's character held in the film about love.
> 10. Bumbroo - Mission Kashmir
> 11. Rang rang mere rang rang mein ..... This song is infectious
> 12. Dholi thaaro dhol baaje - Hum dil de..
daring to add
all songs of Jism,
all songs of Sur,
"galii me.n aaj chaa.Nd nikalaa" & "raat saarii bekaraarii me.n
guzaarii" of Zakm. Other songs too, to some extent.
Meenakshi's "do qadam aur sahii" and "noor un alaa".
-Rawat
naniwadekar
"V S Rawat" <vsr...@datainfosys.net> wrote -
>
> In order to know whether you had appreciated nani
> or have judged him > for his reality, we need to know
> who are Bill Oreilly and Michael Savage?
>
Bill O'Reilly was described by Bradman as one of the
greatest bowlers he had known.
http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1930S/1938/AUS_IN_ENG/AUS_E
NG_T1_10-14JUN1938.html
Don Bradman once said Naniwadekar's taste in music is as
impeccable as O'Reilly's length. That is why O'Reilly has been
mentioned in the thread.
* I am as ignorant about Michael Savage as you.
* I hope you know that Bradman was an 'oldie Cricket player' .
- dn
Ajit
>
> Since we are discussing modern music here is some stuff post-90s that
> I think is very good
>
> 'minimalistic' kind of song with a pleasant melody
>
> 2. Woh to hai albela - Kabhi haan kabhi naa
> 3. Aana mere pyar ko na tum - KHKN
> 4. Dheeme dheeme gaun -Zubeida
> 5. Mere mehboob mere sanam - Duplicate
> 6. Paakhi Paakhi pardesi (Aie ajnabi) - Dil Se .... very haunting
> 7. Des mere Des mere - Legend of Bhagat Singh ..... There are some
> beautiful instrumental pieces here
> with great use of flute pieces
> 11. Rang rang mere rang rang mein ..... This song is infectious
> 12. Dholi thaaro dhol baaje - Hum dil de..
>
>
Here are some more:
1) the Alka-Udit duet in "Hum Aap Ke Dil Mein Rehte Hain". Top class
song
2) Is deewaane ladke ko....Sarfarosh
3) zindagi maut na ban jaaye...Sarfarosh
4) Many songs from "Refugee"
5) Jaspinder Narula's pathos-filled solo in "Fiza"
6) Asha's "mujhhe rang de" and other songs in ARR's Thakshak including
Sapna Trivedi's "Boondon se baatein". Very nice songs!
7) Que sera sera sera sera....Pukar
8) Bairi Piya in Devdaas, and the classical Kavita-Birju Maharaj duet
in the same film
>
> So many off the top of my head.. this is my choice.. Good music is
> there. Just as bad music was there in the 30s and 40s too. Infact
> Nani.. I found your endorsement of Ashok Kumar's singing over his
> brother quite ridiculous (assuming it was not in jest). Ashok Kumar
> could barely carry a tune.. the same is with a lot of 30s and 40s
> singers.
>
All the songs discussed on this thread so far are IMHO way superior to
the completely lifeless, unpolished songs of the 30s and early 40s.
The music of the new Devdas may not be extra-ordinary. But for me,
every song from the new Devdas is much better than any of Saigal's
songs in the old Devdas, which are as unlistenable as any of the other
"songs" (if we can call them so) from that decade. I (forcibly)
listened to a huge collection of songs from the 30s, one fated day. It
proved benefical to me, eventually, as I realized that "music" once
upon a time had touched such abysmal extremes :). In comparison to
that kind of junk, even the music of the 90s and beyond seems far more
listenable to me.
Loony Tunes
> "V S Rawat" <vsr...@datainfosys.net> wrote -
> >
> > In order to know whether you had appreciated nani
> > or have judged him > for his reality, we need to know
> > who are Bill Oreilly and Michael Savage?
See Fox News Channel 8.00 EST
> >
>
> Bill O'Reilly was described by Bradman as one of the
> greatest bowlers he had known.
Jijactly
>
> * I am as ignorant about Michael Savage as you.
He was on NBC but got pulled off for his ultra conservative views. He is now
on Talk Radio
www.klif.com
If Bill O Reilly of FNC is a right wing conservative, Michael Savage is his
baap.
Arunabha S Roy
> All the songs discussed on this thread so far are IMHO way superior to
> the completely lifeless, unpolished songs of the 30s and early 40s.
> The music of the new Devdas may not be extra-ordinary. But for me,
> every song from the new Devdas is much better than any of Saigal's
> songs in the old Devdas, which are as unlistenable as any of the other
> "songs" (if we can call them so) from that decade.
Just when one was beginning to think that the thread couldn't get any
more ridiculous ...
- Arunabha
@bollyvista.com Amit Malhotra
ARR did come up with a great album in TLOBS, in my opinion, it was one
of his best, along with Pukar (somehow, I love the songs of Pukar,
especially, qismat se tum)
Des mere des mere is just beautiful, i'm not a huge fan of Sameer (in
my opinion, he is the worst lyricist in the industry), but he did do a
great job in TLOBS, like I always say, give credit where credit is
due. Sarfaroshi ki tamanna is also beautiful, of course the original
couplet is by Bismil, but he didn't do a bad job by adding the lyrics
of the song in it.
I wish Water would have been released, ARR kept on saying that he has
done his best work in Water. However, the more recent ones that came
out such as Tehzeeb, the songs are nothing great to rave about.
Amit
naniwadekar
"Arunabha S Roy" <asr...@yahoo.com> wrote -
>
> Just when one was beginning to think that the thread couldn't get any
> more ridiculous ...
>
I often wonder why people like Laloo and Mulayam fight
when the rest of us mortals can't see why they don't stick
together permanently. Same goes for Ketan and Ajit.
They should stop fighting, join hands and launch Bharatiya
Sangeet Kranti Dal as joint VPs. Mr V S Rawat shall be
the President.
V S Rawat
He did sing one song in '72, prabhu jii mere avagun chit na dharo. And
it is a wholesome junk song.
Disproves both your points.
And why should his Aashirwad's railgaadi not considered in the
category of rap songs that might compete with anu malik's ye kaalii
kaalii zulfe.n. compared to how AK had spoken this number, Amitabh's
Mr natawarlal "mere paas aao mere dosto.n" starts sounding like a
"sung" song.
other aashirwad numbers, niinaa kii naanii kii naav chalii, and kaalaa
kuttaa, kuttaa kaataa are all not sung but spoken songs, and so is his
part in khoobsurat's piya bawari.
-Rawat
V S Rawat
> "Pankaj Kakkar" <pan...@seas.upenn.edu> wrote in message
> news:c21cki$4phh$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
>
"oldie"
> music, but not so much the 1930s - a lot of these melodies sound
primitive
> to me (primarily the non-Saigal crowd).
In Saigal songs, do you find them different because their music was
different
(non-primitive) type, or because it was saigal's voice and singing
that gave soul to his songs, or because .....?
> Okay, no apologies, but here are some assorted thoughts on your
> list. I liked parts of your list, but the Jatin-Lalit soundtracks
> are some
of the
> most *lazy* and insipid I've ever heard (I exclude JJWS, at least
for Pehla
> Nasha).
ruuTh kar mujhase kabhii?
> that J-L came up with "Tujhe Dekha To" and "Ho Gaya Hai Tujhko" in
> the *same* flick!
I find "tujhe dekha to" a very mediocre number. Its mukha.Daa has
whatever little grace but the stanzas are outright ugly.
however, "Ho Gaya Hai Tujhko" is a different genre altogether. It is
such a insisting song. The lyrics also fit perfectly well in bringing
around the feel of it.
In the current songs, I think picturisation must be taken into account
to understand the mass public following a song gets. It is so unlike
old songs when hero or heroine used to sing entire 3 or 5 minute song
standing at one place just shaking their heads.
"Ho Gaya Hai Tujhko" was also such a crucial juncture in the film.
Hero heroine met, had a lot of shammi kapoor style misunderstanding
before some seed of trust starts taking root. But suddenly they
separate. The boy, an experienced ladies killer, and the girl bound by
the beliefs of a conservative father, none of either is able to
realise that what they are going through is love, and then the song
says it all in its own, soft, insisting, declaring, revealing style.
its "doli sajaa ke rakhanaa" also has a uniqueness that it presents a
situation frozen in time.
its "ghar aajaa paradesii" is also a lovely song, such passionately
rendered. Compare it with chiTThii aayii hai of Naam which has
absolutely same line of thought.
Masses might be willing to take free goodies but they are no fools to
get taken for a free ride by m.d.s and film directors. There are
several superficial songs which the masses had refused to accept.
Though I agree that the mass psychology you are describing did surely
fit on the masses of 80s when the only criteria of a song becoming a
bumper hit was that it had to be on Amitabh. Even a "mere a.ngane
me.n" became the best seller of its years.
Today's masses had declined to accept even ashoka and yaade.n of
current times' no. 1 Mr Anu Malik. That does speak something about the
public intellect.
> K3G is yet another example - the most interesting songs of this
> *pathetic* movie (not even talking about the songs here) were not
> by J-L.
K3G intentionally concentrated in over-emoting, in entire film as well
as songs. And they succeeded in their intentions. shaabaa shaabaa's
change of moods from hip hop joyous dances to one stanze each of
shahrukh and kajol's homage to their respective fathers is a thing to
remember. Similar switches are there in karva chauth song. But yash
chopda has a better understanding of placement of songs.
> I don't see what's so
great
> about the songs of Pardes - I am biased against that movie for
> other reasons
:) you don't need any "reason" to get biased against such a pathetic
movie.
Still, compared to yaade.n, pardes music stays with you for quite some
time. Taal is a different story altogether, the most sold album of
ARR, even after such a poorly done film.
>, but whatever I've heard of the songs does not move
> me in
the least.
> Both HDDCS and Devdas go to great lengths to impress with a
kaleidoscope of
> musical colors, but neither has a single song that strikes any
> emotional chords with me.
I wonder how could you say that for "ta.Dap ta.Dap ke is dil se", it
is such a touching song so perfectly done. It does not become
overemotive though there was that risk at every note.
> I refer to the former as the "Festival of India" soundtrack,
> and the second, for its attempts at grandeur, completely vitiates
> the simplicity of the Devdas story. Udit's "Vo Chaand Jaisi Ladki"
> is IMO a miserable attempt at a Rafi-esque "drunk and brooding"
> song, and
supports my
> theory that Udit does not generally deliver on the subdued, sober
variety of
> song.
won't jeans' "ajuubaa" be quite near to "subdued, sober variety"?
Lagaan's udit was also much better than devdas' udit. His voice has a
freshness, like shailendra Singh's.
> I liked Dil Chahta Hai, and Rahman's stuff - in general, I will
listen to
> Rahman based on his track record with me. One soundtrack of his I
like that
> I feel is overlooked is "The Legend of Bhagat Singh". On Rahman, I
do feel
> like he also has a lot of *random*, *noisy* stuff out there.
Many a people carry that notion primarily because of early years of
ARR when he was primarily dubbing his tamil originals to hindi. And
arbitrary lyrics like "laTakaa dikhaa diyaa hamane, jhaTakaa lagaa
diyaa tumane" did not help to elevate his reputation.
But take "any" hindi original of him, or any re-composed song of him
and he had been much better. In Saathiyaa, none of the songs was
random noisy.
one of his lovely number got unnoticed is in vishwavidhata "kal
nahii.n thaa wo kyaa hai", though dubbed from tamil.
> "Zakhm" by M.M.
> Kreem was another soundtrack I liked.
>
> While I believe that individuals may be "set in their ways", this
"mafia"
> thing is silly. You have correctly pointed out Vish Krishnan and
> Satish Kalra, but I think there are others on this forum that fit
> that
category. In
> my case, I admit I don't entertain high expectations for many of
> today's soundtracks, but if I hear something I like, I will make it
> a point to mention it any chance I get :-)
good enough. As long as you don't bash others for liking different
music, you are not in mafia.
But that does not prove that such a mafia does not exist. :)
-Rawat
naniwadekar
> couldn't get any > more ridiculous ...
>
> - Arunabha
>
So you *are* a part of the mafia after all, Arunabha.
(Just adding one more post to increase my commission from
Rupa U & B, the thread's official sponsors.)
- dn
Surma Bhopali
> "Pankaj Kakkar" <pan...@seas.upenn.edu> wrote...
> >
> > Music of all times, unless it is pure folk music, whether it is the music
> of
> > the 30s or the music of the 90s, or opera, or rock, or rap, or hip hop,
> > whatever, is an acquired taste. It is easy to say that music you don't
>
> Do you mean that folk music is *not* an acquired taste? Could
> you elaborate?
>
> > The flip side applies too - however, 'oldies' have closed themselves
> totally
> > to new music.
>
> places in India, the airwaves are inundated with new music. While
> I can honestly say that I like a few of the newer songs, the
> percentage is so low that if I have to take a stand, it will be on the
> do-not-like-them side. I do like one or two songs from Dil Se,
> Lagaan etc. But I cannot appreciate all the hype surrounding ARR.
> I find him repetitive and boring. While listening to some of his songs
> (please don't ask me to quote specific tracks. I don't remember) I
> am constantly drifting in and out of his other songs or concentrating
> on the shortcomings of his orchestration or mixing or something.
> The melody simply doesn't hold me. The melody is not even
> accorded centrestage too often. This, I find to be a major drawback
> as compared to the music of the 50s.
>
I agree with your view and here is my view. Music to me is part of the
'leisure' space among other life activities. Obviously there is a time
constraint there. I am not 'closed' to any kind of music including the
very latest ones. But this 'time constraint' does force me to look for
good music in areas with 'prospect'. I do explore new things once in a
while. But it is really frustrating to spend hours listening to tens
of songs to find one good song among them. That is my reason for going
back to 'oldies' where I can listen to more of good music. It is like
having faith in certain brands.
Animesh Kumar
>
>>
>>If I would ask Nani, I need to reverse the order. Like "Devotees of God
>>feel sad about the atheists; Vegeterians think that steak guzzlers
>>should be kind to animals;etc, but do these thoughts lead them anywhere!"
>
>
> I probably mis-stated my question.
> I dont see how either way of stating your *quotes* should make any
> difference. Both are according your perspective and as you wish to see one
> way or the other. It is by no means a fair generalization.
Like I said, I classified according to short-lived and long lived.
>
>
>>There is always a notion of fleeting and long-lived. You can choose what
>>you wish to support.
>
>
> I dont disagree with your comment.
> I thought your analogy was mis-placed. Can you prove God exists (btw I am
> not an atheist)?. Until then, your *long-lived* opinion on theism and
> vegetarianism is yours alone.
>
I don't wish to prove the existence of God. Let alone proving His
existence, I cannot even conceive for myself His manifestations and
existential aspects.
> Thanks for reading
> lt
>
>
--
PS: reply to animesh AT eecs.berkeley.edu
Saving Thyself from Spam
Ritu
> And of course, appreciation of 30s music isn't immediate. It
> > takes a lot of listening, a lot of getting used to, before you can start
> > understanding and appreciating. Its no wonder so many fans of 'oldie'
> music
> > are 'oldies' themselves.
>
> Is "oldie" music solely from the 1930s? I consider myself a fan of "oldie"
> music, but not so much the 1930s - a lot of these melodies sound primitive
> to me (primarily the non-Saigal crowd).
I tend to agree.. I like a lot of the songs from that era but somehow
feel the 50s had more polish and maturity. Even the lyrics were much
better. Some of the 30s stuff lyrically is quite imbecile.
> Okay, no apologies, but here are some assorted thoughts on your list. I
> liked parts of your list, but the Jatin-Lalit soundtracks are some of the
> most *lazy* and insipid I've ever heard (I exclude JJWS, at least for Pehla
> Nasha). If anyone has milked maximum return out of minimum effort these days
> it is them (akin to Shankar-Jaikishan of the late 60s) - one theme/chord
> progression equals fifty not-that-interesting songs. For DDLJ, RaamLaxman's
> "Didi Tera Devar" in HAHK was such a hit, that J-L came up with "Tujhe Dekha
> To" and "Ho Gaya Hai Tujhko" in the *same* flick! K3G is yet another
> example - the most interesting songs of this *pathetic* movie (not even
> talking about the songs here) were not by J-L. I don't see what's so great
J-L offlate aren't doing too well. But who made those 'Yes Boss'
songs.. some of that stuff was quite pleasant. Like 'Mein koi aisa
geet gaun'. I think Karan Johar and the Chopras get the worst out in
any music director. S-E-L have done quite a lack-lustre job in 'Kal ho
na ho' (atleast the songs I have heard).
> I liked Dil Chahta Hai, and Rahman's stuff - in general, I will listen to
> Rahman based on his track record with me. One soundtrack of his I like that
> I feel is overlooked is "The Legend of Bhagat Singh".
I agree... there is some very nice music in there. Ofcourse it's
Rahmanesque and it doesn't really have the flavour of the period etc.
(if he wanted to really get the flavour of the period he would need to
get an Ashok Kumar clone to sing :)!) but the music is nice. I
particularly liked 'Des Mere' and 'Mehndi ka rang'.
Rehman is pretty inconsistent though. At times he's quite off the
mark. S-E-L are refreshing but their tunes tend to get repetitive.
That again originates from the high orientation towards orchestration.
But SEL experiment a lot of with the sound.
On Rahman, I do feel
> like he also has a lot of *random*, *noisy* stuff out there. "Zakhm" by M.M.
> Kreem was another soundtrack I liked.
Same here... 'Gali mein aaj chaand nikla' is very compelling. Though I
wish it was not Alka Yagnik. I find her lacking in more ways than one.
Cheers
Ritu
Afzal A. Khan
V S Rawat wrote:
>
> Afzal A. Khan wrote:
> >
> > I would also like to invite RMIMers' attention to
> > one point. In this day and age (and on this forum),
> > most of us wax eloquent about the greatness of "old"
> > music --- how sweet and melodious it was. But, in its
> > own time, did the listeners have the same kind of
> > reverential attitude towards it ? Having lived through
> > those times (and I am not including the very early
> > period), I don't think so. For us (i.e. listeners of
> > that era), that feeling of wonder and awe was just not
> > there.
>
> I always wondered how people used to saigal and kanan devi had taken a
> sudden "shola jo bhadake", "meri jan sunday ke sunday", "mere piyaa
> gaye rangoon", and likes, at those times.
>
> Wasn't there a hallagulla about westernisation of music, vulgar
> dances, trash lyrics, etc., etc.?
>
> All above being CR's is only coincidental, I could not off hand recall
> any naudhad or anil b, or sajjad or husnLbhagatR etc number which were
> clearly as western as CR's these popular numbers.
Good question. Non-proliferation of media at that
time was, I think, an important factor why there was
little "hullagulla" about such issues. In some cases,
the sheer novelty of the stuff attracted, rather than
put off, the listeners. Example : Naushad's songs in
"Jadoo" which were very popular. In fact, people gave
credit to Naushad for coming up with such catchy numbers.
I suppose this is true too of CR's songs mentioned by you.
And, above all, the "heady stuff" continued to be
available in such numbers that people tended to ignore
musical deviations. All this IMHO.
In recent times, Lata (in interviews and even live
concerts) has been mentioning the "Samadhi" song
("Gore gore, O BaaNke chhore") as arousing listener's
ire. Somehow I cannot recall any such public furore
or hue and cry.
>
> > I suppose it is Nastalgia which makes us pine
> > for those melodies today. In that sense, one can
> > perhaps take a more favourable view of the "old"
> > music as compared to the modern variety --- insofar as
> > "old-timers" are concerned. I think this has been
> > going on from generation to generation in all fields,
> > not merely music --- that feeling of nostalgia about
> > "the good old days". I can quite visualize today's
> > (younger) generation's feelings around, say, 2045 ---
> > "What music we had in the eighties and nineties !
> > There was Bappi-da and Rahul-da, and yes, Rehman. And
> > those duos and trios -- Anand Milind, Jatin Lalit &
> > Shankar, Ehsan, Loy. Wish those times could come back."
>
> are you alleging that Mr Naniwadekar's granchildren will say that?
Can you rule it out ? !!!
Afzal
> -Rawat