A Lata Song Dispute
sha...@wmich.edu
did the poet use them both?
Yara, sili-sili, raat ka sapna
yara, tili-tili, raat ka sapna.
Five pairs of ears have failed to settle the argument. Can anyone
speak with authority, please?!
Visho Sharma
Anish K. Desai
: There is a Lata song in which both similies are appropriate;
: did the poet use them both?
: Yara, sili-sili, raat ka sapna
: yara, tili-tili, raat ka sapna.
If you are talking about the song from "Lekin", then it is
Yara sili-sili, birha ki raat ka jalna
Corrections are welcome.
-Anish Desai
Avinash K Solomon
: There is a Lata song in which both similies are appropriate;
: Visho Sharma
No the poet only used the second line
Yara tili tili raat ka sapna.
Umar Khan
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kh...@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Dhawal Tyagi
> I apologize: there is no sapna wapna; the word is jalna!
> I'm grateful to those that have provided a fuller refrain; but the
> dispute is not settled: is it sili-sili; tili-tili; or sili-sili
> (and later) tili-tili.
>
It is silli-silli raat ka jalna.
There is a contrast in this line, silli-silli means damp, which is very difficult
to burn, but the writer is trying to show a contrast.
Regards
Dhawal
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sha...@wmich.edu
I'm grateful to those that have provided a fuller refrain; but the
dispute is not settled: is it sili-sili; tili-tili; or sili-sili
(and later) tili-tili.
HELP!
Visho Sharma
bushan
: There is a Lata song in which both similies are appropriate;
: did the poet use them both?
:
: Yara, sili-sili, raat ka sapna
: yara, tili-tili, raat ka sapna.
:
: Five pairs of ears have failed to settle the argument. Can anyone
: speak with authority, please?!
:
: Visho Sharma
Further to this artilce Sahrma and Bhat have posted follow up
articles that would rightly make the song some what like this
Yara, seelee-seelee, raat ka jalnaa
yara, teelee-teelee, raat ka jalnaa.
Well, here is what I have to say,
The above two lines are actually an example of three types of figures of
speech of hindi. Figure-of-speech in hindi in some restricted sense can be
equated to what is called as 'alankaar'. (Actually 'alnkaar' as a
word means anything used to beautify the subject. It is commonly,
hence, used to refer to jwellary or fashion garments. It is quite
common, hence, in India to find cloth and/or jwellary stores to be
named as 'Alkakaar .....' . So, as prudent usage of figures of
speech tends to 'beautify' a work of prose or verse hence the name
ALANKAAR). The three alankaars that the above two line have are 'upmaa
alnkaar' ,'Shlesh alankaar' and 'Anupraas alankaar' .
Unfortunately due to the intensity with which the issue of meaning
of the song is being persued on the net I am forced to present all
this otherwise cumbersome and lengthy deliberation. But an
understanding of the underlaying philosophy with which the poet had
probably worked might be essential to clarify the confusion, if at all.
So let me first explain what the various alankaars, that I mentioned
of, mean.
Upmaa (nothing to do, I am afraid, with the delicious south
indian dish) means an example given to highlight a simili. Hence any
alakaar which tries to bring out a similarity between two apparently
'unrelated' things is called Upmaa Alankaar. Of course depending on
how valid or extreme the corelation between the two things is the
alankaar in question can get reclassified as 'Atishyoktee' ,
'Vakroktee' alankaar etc..
Next is Shlesh alankaar. Shlesh in hindi means joined together. An
verse form is supposed to be 'Slesh alankaar' if a word appears more
than once and every time its meaning is different to the point of
confusing its real meaning. Of course there are other cases when a
word appears once but has two different meanings depending on the
context. Further a word may apper twice and have same mening or it
may apprar twice and have different meaning but the meaning of the
verse may not be confusing. In all of these cases the alankaar would get
reclassified in other categories. This again is not the case under
consideration. So we leave it at that (you bet).
Next one is Anupraas alankaar. 'Anupraas' means related to sound. So
any verse form that has repetation of a vowal or a sound many times
is referred to as Anuprass Alankaar.
Now let me come to the song in question. (thank god, at last!)
One significant point, to take cognisance of, before I proceed is that
the song has its roots in some folk song and hence draws heavily
from the life styles of its locale of origin.
In hindi there is a word - 'seelan'. Which means dampness. Seelan is an
abstract noun. If used as an adjective (as in the case under
consideration) it becomes 'seelaa' of 'seelee' depending on the gender
of the noun to which it is attached. So lexically speaking
seelee-seelee raat would mead a damp night!
In indian villages it was/is common to burn fire wood during night time for
cooking/lighting etc. If the wood used for burning is damp then wood
burns very slowly and also causes a lot of smoke. Which to any
person near (e.g. a lady cooking) causes watering of eyes. So the
poet here in trying to bring out the feelings of a lady tries to
use the simili between burning of a damp piece of wood and
passing of night.
In the night time the lady remembers her lover and this brings tears
to her eyes ( watering of e yes ). So by calling 'raat'
as 'seelee' the lady is saying that as she remembers her lover in
the night time the passing of night is like burning of a damp wood
piece ( seelee-seelee raat ka jalnaa ) Because not only the night
passes very slowly (like the slow burning of damp wood) but also that
the momories of her lover cause her eyes to get moistened (as in the
event of smoke coming out burning of damp piece of wood, which when
she is cooking causes her eyes to water). Thus here the poet has tried
to use Upma Alankaar (passing of night and burning of damp wood).
Hence the line
Yara, seelee-seelee, raat ka jalnaa
Next about the second line .( God more to come!)
'Teelee' in hindi means thin cane. Like the cane used in making of
cane furniture and fruit baskets etc. The poet here is using teelee
to refer to the cane used to make baskets. It is/was common for
indian women to make cane baskets at home for their house hold
usage. Also There is a word in hindi called 'til'. It is a small
seed from which oil is extracted. The seed is very small in size.
And hence there is a proverb in Hindi 'til-til kar jalnaa'. Which
means to suffer (burn internally) silently and on a continual basis.
So in the second line poet while narrating the feelings of the lady
refers to one of her daily routines of making a basket of 'teelee'
Also basket making is a monotonous job in which, with practise, a
person can continue to make one and still be engrossed in his/her
thoughts. So while the lady is making a basket thoughts comes to her
mind about how she is 'til-til kar jal rahee hai'- due to seperation
from her lover . Hence the second line :
yara, teelee-teelee, raat ka jalnaa.
So here we have Shlesh alankaar. Where the word teelee/tili is used
twice to mean diferrent thing to the point of confusing the meaning
of the verse. ( You are telling us !? )
Thoush, prima facie it might be, actually the use of such
indirect and intricate way of trying to convey one's feelings should
not be surprising ( Humm.. Is that sooo..). The
folk songs were/are sung in rural india by people in groups and to
share one's feelings ladies, as the society is not very permissive in
allowing women to be eloquent about their feeings, would compose their
folk songs which are often replete with such suble means of conveying.
And such a sublte
approach, intentionally or other wise, more often then not, leads to a
beautiful piece of Shelesh alankaar like the one in second line of the
song.
And before I stop this trifle analysis I will talk about the last
remaing Alankaar that found its way in the above song. Obviously the
words 'seelee' and 'teelee/tili' ryme quite well. ( Thanks for
telling or else we wouldn't have known ! ) Hence the Anupraas
Alankaar.
As most of you unsuspecting people have already opened his document
I might add a few more of lines. ( Do we have a choice ? )
Actually most of the songs that have their roots in folk songs have
this kind of beauty associated with them. But by virtue of their
being of folk origin they naturally draw very heavily on the life
styles of the people of its origin locale and also often make
rampant references to their sorroundings without any reference to
the context or explanations what so ever.
But it may be unfair to castigate such folk
poets, for, most folk songs originate with their intended usage to be
resrticted to the locale of its origin. Of course it is a different
matter as to whether the poet who borrowes from such folk songs
should throw some light on the origin locale or not.
None-the-less I have like Sharma found this song to be very
interesting and relishable. But any attempt, like my above one, which
unnecessarily tries hard to complicate an otherwise simple matter are
difficult to pardon. Here I am with most of you.
Of course mistakes in the obove treatment are most welcome to
appear on the thread for me and others to learn.
Alok B. Lal.
(ccst_93b - NCST, Bombay, India.)
Manish S Prabhu
Alok:
I must say, I have to differ with you a little in your analysis of the
song - the 'teeli-teeli' part of it. IMHO it falls more under the 'yamak'
kind of alankaars than under 'shlesh'. 'Shlesh' is used where there's only
one word in the verse but that word has several meanings attached to it.
(as you said 'shlesh' means 'chipka hua'/'attached' - many-in-one type).
By the way, RMIM ers, I am definitely commiting a crime here in your
eyes if you strongly believe in the philosophy expressed in the foll verse:
'sirf ahsaas hai ye, rooh se mehsoos karo
pyaar ko pyaar hi rahne do, koi naam na do'
That's right. Why worry about 'alankaars'? why not enjoy the songs as
they stand ? But sometimes I feel that a little more knowledge can give a
better insight and intensify the 'rasa-swadan' involved in the piece of art.
Phir bhi, yadi hamara gunaah na-kaabil-ae-raham hai, to uski sazaa
hame manzoor hai :-)
Here's my Rs 0.02 on alankaars :
ANUPRAAS, YAMAK and SHLESH are types of 'shabda-alankaars' in which words
beautify the language
eg.
anupraas:
1)chandan sa badan, chanchal chitvan ...
2)charu chandra ki chanchal kirne, khel rahi thi jal-thal me
(note how the sound 'ch' is used repeatedly - 'alliteration')
yamak:
1)sajana hai mujhe sajana ke liye ...
2)kanak kanak tai sau guni, madakta adhikaay
('kanak' word is used multiple times, each time
it's meaning is different. the first one means
Gold and the second one means an intoxicating
fruit and the poet is trying to compare their
ability to intoxicate. (same for 'sajana'))
(This is where 'teeli-teeli' fits in IMHO)
shlesh:
1)paani gaye na oobare moti maanush chun
('paani' is used only once but has multiple
meanings to it. It means 'chamak' wrt 'moti'
'izzat' wrt 'manushya' and 'jal' wrt 'choona')
UPAMA, UTPREKSHA and ROOPAK are forms of 'artha-alankaars' in which meaning
of words beautify language
eg.
upama:
1)chand jaise mukhade pe bindiya sitara ...
('mukhada' is being compared with 'chaand'
like a 'similie' in English grammar)
utpreksha:
1)tumko dekha to ye khayaal aaya,
zindagi dhoop tum ghana saaya ...
(this expresses a possibility of the subject
'tum' being the same as what is is compared
with 'ghana saaya' making it fall somewhere
in between 'similie' and 'metaphor')
roopak:
1)tum to pyaar ho, sajana ...
(this expresses a certainity of the subject
of comparison being the same as the object
being compared with - probably closest to
a 'metaphor')
there's a third kind called 'ubhay-alankaars' in which both words and their
meanings are relevant. I can't remember good examples to describe them.
Manish
Manoj Chauhan
< GOOD STUFF DELETED>
Manish u gave a good insight of Alankaars.
I remember one more BHRANTIMAAN ALANKAAR:
NAARI BEECH SAARI YA SAARI BEECH NAARI HAI
NAARI HI KI SAARI HAI KI SAARI HI KI NAARI HAI.
(This example belongs to Mahabharat time, related to Dropadi and her saari).
-Manoj Chauhan
PS: What abt discussing RAS like (VEER RAS, BHAYANAK RAS, HRASYA RAS and many
more)
I remember one beatiful example for VEER RAS:
Mein satya kahata hoon sakhe,
sukumaar mat jaano mujhe,
Yamaraj se bhi yuddh mein,
Prastut sada mano mujhe.
Hai aur ki to baat kya,
Garv mein karata nahin,
Mama tatha nij taat se bhi,
Yuddh mein darata nahin.
DESCRIPTION: Again belongs to Mahabharat. Abhimanyu in the battle field
talking to his charioteer. He says that when it comes to
battle, he doesn't fear even Yamraaj, his maternal uncle
Krishna and his father Arjuna.
PPS: IF SOMEBODY THINKS THAT THE TOPIC DOES NOT BELONG TO RMIM, PLS LET IT GO.
Abhijit Shah
on alankar. I am adding my 0.0002 cents to it.
In his article he gives examples of YAMAK and SLESH:
> yamak:
>
> 1)sajana hai mujhe sajana ke liye ...
> 2)kanak kanak tai sau guni, madakta adhikaay
>
> ('kanak' word is used multiple times, each time
> it's meaning is different. the first one means
> Gold and the second one means an intoxicating
> fruit and the poet is trying to compare their
> ability to intoxicate. (same for 'sajana'))
> (This is where 'teeli-teeli' fits in IMHO)
>
> shlesh:
>
> 1)paani gaye na oobare moti maanush chun
>
> ('paani' is used only once but has multiple
> meanings to it. It means 'chamak' wrt 'moti'
> 'izzat' wrt 'manushya' and 'jal' wrt 'choona')
>
>
Consider following lines from Dev Anand's song
'Tere ghar ke Saamane'
Mohobbat mein 'taz' chhute yeh bhi tumhe yaad hoga
Mohobbat mein 'taz' bandhe yeh bhi tumhe yaad hoga
This ones easy. Try following line from song
Raina beeti jaaye, shyam naa aaye
"Shaam ko bhula shaam ka vaadaa re"
is it shelsh or yamak ?
take your time
Abhijit
The man with two eyes (Slesh !!!)
8-)
