Kalyanji-Anandji in 80s
ravi_krishna
> Neeraj D wrote:-
>> What are the songs of 'Professor Pyarelal' ? Who is the MD?
> It's a Kalyanji-Anandji soundtrack, fairly mediocre. The movie
> stars Dharmendra, Zeenat, Shammi Kapoor and Vinod Mehra; and is even
> worse. A couple of numbers I recall offhand are both Asha solos...
o gaa gaa gaaye jaa, aur muskuraaye jaa...
o koii hai?
dilwaala, diiwaanaa, matawaalaa mastaanaa
jo, jaan pe apanii khele...
Add one more
o Tere siva na kissi ke banuga (Rafi and Asha).
The interludes of this song is remarkably similar to Qurbani song "kya
dekthen ho , soorat tumari ...". Considering that both the movies were
released within a span of couple of months in 1980 (Anand - PP is a 1980 movie),
it speaks very low of creativity of KA.
That brings up to the topic of this thread. How did KA fare in 80s. My
opinion is that they were ATROCIOUS in 80s. One hallmark of their scores in
80s was that all songs of the film will sound the same, eg: Jaanbaaz, Tridev,
Sultanant, Datta , Laawaris etc. Their worst was CID (1990).
Mercifully they retired sparing us from the torture. Sad decline for the duo
who were pretty good in 60s and 70s. In fact KA were the MDs who finally
displaced Shankar Jaikishan in 1969 as the top MD after an amazing run of
18 years as the #1 MD. ( source Cibaca geet mala).
-- RaviK.
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon
sne...@sequent.com (Snehal B. Oza) writes:
> When was Kalaakar ? It was made by Manoj Kumar starring Kunal
> Goswami (his son) and had music by Kalayanji Anandji.
Had Sridevi as the female lead...
> I believe this Suresh Wadekar song
> 'Deet Jalaaye Jo Geeton Ke Maine, Baadal Kyon Ghir Aaye' (Sad)
> and
> 'Deet Jalaaye Jo Geeton Ke Maine, Khusiyon Ke Baadal Chhaye' (Happy)
> is from Kalakaar.
It is. The first word should be 'diip', but I guess it was a
keyboard error...
> I remember that film didn't create any ripples. I too, discovered
> these songs as late as in 1994. I guess film was released in 1983 ?
> If it was indeed early 1980s film, then I urge you to give it
> try. It may change your opinion. If you already know about this, I
> am curious to know what did you not like there ? BTW, were there any
> more songs in Kalaakar ? I somehow remember that there was one more
> SW song in it.
Two more famous numbers from 'Kalakaar' are
o niile niile ambar par chaa.Nd jab... (Kishore)
(this is actually a tandem with another version by Sadhna
Sargam)
o khoye khoye rahe terii baaho.n me.n... (Kishore, Alka)
The other songs are pretty humdrum. EMI (or is it Music
India?) has a CD release of 'Kalakaar' with 'Saverey waali gaaDi',
which is a fairly decent buy. The latter soundtrack was recently
discussed on RMIM, and is one of my favorites.
Ciao,
ND
____ Neeraj Deshmukh __________________ desh...@isip.msstate.edu ____
Institute for Signal & Information Processing 100 Logan Drive #D
P.O. Box 9571, Mississippi State, MS 39762 Starkville MS 39759
W: (601) 325-8335 Fax: (601)325-3149 H: (601) 323-2819
----------------- Disk space - the final frontier... -----------------
Anand Tiwari
In article , sne...@sequent.com says...
>
>In <625rsk$i...@drn.zippo.com> Ravi Krishna writes:
>
>>That brings up to the topic of this thread. How did KA fare in 80s. My
>>opinion is that they were ATROCIOUS in 80s. One hallmark of their scores in
>>80s was that all songs of the film will sound the same, eg: Jaanbaaz, Tridev,
>>Sultanant, Datta , Laawaris etc. Their worst was CID (1990).
>
>song
>
> 'Deet Jalaaye Jo Geeton Ke Maine, Baadal Kyon Ghir Aaye' (Sad)
>and
> 'Deet Jalaaye Jo Geeton Ke Maine, Khusiyon Ke Baadal Chhaye' (Happy)
>
>discovered these songs as late as in 1994. I guess film was released in 1983 ?
>If it was indeed early 1980s film, then I urge you to give it try. It may change
>your opinion. If you already know about this, I am curious to know what did you
>not like there ? BTW, were there any more songs in Kalaakar ? I somehow
>remember that there was one more SW song in it.
>
>Snehal
>
Snehal,
As usual i am not sure of the date. AFAIR it was 1983 when it was
released. "Kalaakaar" is the remake of a south indian film. The film opens
with the Kishore solo (in the opening minutes, and i remember letting out
a whoop of joy!)
"Neele Neele Ambar pe chaand jab aaye".
What a song! Kunal sings it, while Sridevi watches from her friends
apartment window. The piece of paper on which the song was written
actually floated down to the yard in which Kunal and Rakesh Bedi
lived (Earlier Rakesh Bedi had written a 3 word song for Kunal to sing,
"Bhookh Bhookh, Bhookh! :))
I also remember another song "Suraj mukhi mukhda tera" which was
perhaps a dream sequence. Then there was a song in the recording
studio where Kunal is shown to be in pain (and keeps spitting blood).
I forget the song. Another song from the film was
"Khoye Khoye rahe teri baahon mein" which was picturized in the
night and on the streets. The problem with the film was that Kunal looked
stupid and Sri just too good for him.
The film had a tragic end with both Sri and Kunal committing suicide,
a slow motion shot as Sri's to be husband in this film, Sujit Kumar opens
the door. This film still remains in my memory because of "Neele Neele
Ambar par". The opening guitar sounds, and Kishore's voice are
unforgettable.
"Chham chham karta saawan boondon ke baan chalaaye
Satrangi barsaaton mein jab tan man bheega jaaye"
regards
Anand ( a Kishore Kumar fan, forever)
ravi_krishna
In article <627tvc$9...@drn.zippo.com>, anand....@prairiecomm.com says...
> This film still remains in my memory because of "Neele Neele
>Ambar par". The opening guitar sounds, and Kishore's voice are
>unforgettable.
This song is actually a copy of tamil song (MD=Ilayairaja). I didn't expect
KA to stoop to this level. The so-called fabulous guitar is taken straight
from the tamil song. In fact the guitaring in the hindi version is much much
less impressive than the tamil original. It is reported that Ilayairaja
himself played the guitar.
How many RMIM'ers know that Iraja was a guitarist in Salil Choudhury team.
SC rates him as one of the best guitarist.
As for KK singing of this song, after listening to SPB's tamil version my
reaction was: "how dare KK sing this song." He was so pathetic in this.
-- RaviK ( a KK basher forever)
PS: Iraja's revenge against KA was very very stupid. He copied KA song
"kasma vade pyar wafa" as a retort.
Abhay Avachat
In article <ufbu0ob...@isip.msstate.edu>, Neeraj says...
>
> Two more famous numbers from 'Kalakaar' are
>
> o niile niile ambar par chaa.Nd jab... (Kishore)
> (this is actually a tandem with another version by Sadhna
> Sargam)
I may be wrong, but during those N^2 threads on Plagiarism, this was
mentioned as an original Illayraja tune. Dayawan perhaps has a similar
case. Original music by Illayraja for Nayakan, movie remade in Hindi,
and KA again copied - at least one tune - "haiyaa o haiyya" (chaahe meri
jaan lai le, chaahe imaan lai le) - quite catchy. Were the other songs
copied too ?
I agree with RaviK that it was a sad decline for a talented duo, but
still I happen to like some of their 80s songs too. Jaanbaaz and Tridev.
Yes, I liked some of the songs. In Tridev the orchestration was pretty
bad for "maiN teri muhabbat me paagal ho jaaunga" and "gajar ne kiya hai
ishaara", but I liked the 'tunes'. I think this is when Viju Shah entered
the scene, and my guess (just a guess) is, Kalyanji suggested the tunes
and Viju executed them. There is another song on Jackie-Sangeeta Brijlani,
which had an okish tune, but bad orchestration. The singers sucked totally.
Of course, "oye oye" was another copy, but the slower version of "teerchhee
topiwaale" came off well, IMHO.
In Jaanbaaz, songs sung by B-grade singers had better tunes than the only
song given to KK. Unfortunate, as again, I think the tunes were good, but
ruined by the choice of singers. What I do find admirable is, the same duo
which gave masterpieces like "chaahe paas ho, chaahe duur ho", "bhula do
muhabbat me kabhi ham mile the" and "waqt karata jo wafa" could also handle
the "new generation music" well. They didn't blame it on "changing times".
I have a looong article on KA in the making and hope to post it soon.
In an old article in Loksatta (a Marathi daily) Shirish Kanekar discussed
Kalyanji in his ultra-famous "YaadoN ki baaraat" series. He describes this
man as "kalandar", and having all the abilities to survive and thrive in the
commercial world of Hindi film music. Has some interesting anecdotes there.
Kalyanji seemed to have a flair for humour. And casual frankness. Let me
end this article with a free translation of the ending of that article.
After our relationship became more friendly, I could dare to ask
Kalyanji the tricky question. "Kalyaanji bhai, have you ever indulged
in plagiarism ?". He looked at me wide-eyed, covered both his ears
with his palms, and muttered "so many times, so many times" and went
away. I didn't know what to say then, and even today, I don't know.
Have fun,
- Abhay.
An unabashed KA fan !
Venkatesh Jagadeeshwara
In article <62857t$q...@drn.zippo.com>, Ravi Krishna writes:
|> In article <627tvc$9...@drn.zippo.com>, anand....@prairiecomm.com
|> says...
|> > This film still remains in my memory because of "Neele Neele
|> team.
|> SC rates him as one of the best guitarist.
|>
Iraja started his career as a guitarist in the movie GoaDali CID 999
(Kannada - Starring Dr.Raj Kumar and music director - G.K.Venkatesh) way
back in 60's.
This was told by Iraja himself during a function in Bangalore last year.
Hema
Abhay Avachat wrote:
> and Viju executed them. There is another song on Jackie-Sangeeta Brijlani,
> which had an okish tune, but bad orchestration. The singers sucked totally.
> Of course, "oye oye" was another copy, but the slower version of "teerchhee
> topiwaale" came off well, IMHO.
AFAIR, there was only one song picturised on Sangeeta, a solo in
Alisha's voice - "raat bhar jaam se jaam takraayega". I liked tridev
songs a lot but cannot remember this song you are referring to. There
was a song "main teri muhabbat mein" which I used to like a lot inspite
of the irritating "hai~~~" at the end of the line 'kaisa lagta hai', but
I think it was picturised on Madhuri Dixit and Sunny Deol. The singers
were Manhar (I am sure this time) and Sadhna Sargam.
> In Jaanbaaz, songs sung by B-grade singers had better tunes than the only
> song given to KK. Unfortunate, as again, I think the tunes were good, but
> ruined by the choice of singers. What I do find admirable is, the same duo
> which gave masterpieces like "chaahe paas ho, chaahe duur ho", "bhula do
> muhabbat me kabhi ham mile the" and "waqt karata jo wafa" could also handle
> the "new generation music" well. They didn't blame it on "changing times".
> I have a looong article on KA in the making and hope to post it soon.
jaanbaaz had a very good soundtrack, IMO. There was a qawwali kind of a
song. Can someone remind me of that?
hema.
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon
ava...@hotmail.com (Abhay Avachat) writes:
> > Two more famous numbers from 'Kalakaar' are
> >
> > o niile niile ambar par chaa.Nd jab... (Kishore)
> > (this is actually a tandem with another version by Sadhna
> > Sargam)
> I may be wrong, but during those N^2 threads on Plagiarism, this was
> mentioned as an original Illayraja tune.
Indeed, and Ravi Krishna has reiterated it on this thread as
well.
> Dayawan perhaps has a similar case. Original music by Illayraja for
> Nayakan, movie remade in Hindi, and KA again copied - at least one
> tune - "haiyaa o haiyya" (chaahe meri jaan lai le, chaahe imaan lai
> le) - quite catchy. Were the other songs copied too ?
"The wrong people are being hanged here"... :-) 'Dayavan' is a
Laxmi-Pyare score. Feroze Khan seems to have switched loyalties here,
as K-A were regulars for his post-RDB-phase films.
> ishaara", but I liked the 'tunes'. I think this is when Viju Shah
> entered the scene, and my guess (just a guess) is, Kalyanji
> suggested the tunes and Viju executed them.
Au contraire, I actually find Viju's orchestrations quite nice
(e.g. Muqaddar Ka Badshah, or the more recent Tere Mere Sapne and Gupt).
There are some fairly decent soundtracks by K-A in the '80s
which didn't make it big, primarily because the corresponding movies
were bad and flopped badly. 'Hiraasat', 'Muqaddar ka faisla',
'Sultanat' etc are quite nice, for instance.
Renu Thamma
RaviKrishna wrote:
: Of course Saware Waali Gaadi is one of my favorites too. It had RDB in
: vintage form. Unlike RDB's scores in 80's , which were mostly stale ,
: it had freshness. My preference for SWG songs are:-
:
: dekho hein kaun aaya .. (Suresh W , Asha) really beautiful tune.
: bin payal kee chum (Suresh W)
: din pyar ke (Lata).
:
: There was a non descriptive KK song also in that film.
There's two Kishore solos in the movie. 'Saanjh pade gaaye deewaana' is
actually a decent song, and the lyrics (by Majrooh) made more sense to me
in the context of the movie. In the paragraph where he sings ---
'lage har ik daali yaara, **** jaise koi baala,
pehen ke sone ki maala, odhhe doshala'
he compares the wheat stalks laden with grain to a girl. I found it
sweet. Pretty 'descriptive', I think. ;) ;)
The other song shows up at the start of the movie. Can't remember it now.
Renu.
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon
Hema <hnk...@pitt.edu> writes:
> AFAIR, there was only one song picturised on Sangeeta, a solo in
> Alisha's voice - "raat bhar jaam se jaam takraayega". I liked tridev
> songs a lot but cannot remember this song you are referring to.
Abhay probably wanted 'galii galii me.n phirataa hai...'
> > In Jaanbaaz, songs sung by B-grade singers had better tunes than the
> > only song given to KK. Unfortunate, as again, I think the tunes were
> > good, but ruined by the choice of singers. What I do find admirable
> > is, the same duo which gave masterpieces like "chaahe paas ho,
> > chaahe duur ho", "bhula do muhabbat me kabhi ham mile the" and "waqt
> > karata jo wafa" could also handle the "new generation music"
> > well. They didn't blame it on "changing times". I have a looong
> > article on KA in the making and hope to post it soon.
> jaanbaaz had a very good soundtrack, IMO. There was a qawwali kind
> of a song. Can someone remind me of that?
I agree. And unlike Abhay, I like the KK song more than the
others even for its tune. Songs of Jaanbaaz as I recall them are as
follows ---
1. teraa saath hai kitanaa pyaara... (Kishore, Alka)
2. pyaar do, pyaar lo... (Sapna Mukherji)
3. give me love, give me love (English -- dunno singers)
4. har kisii ko nahii.n milataa... (Manhar, Sapna)
5. jaanejaanaa, o jaanejaanaa... (Manhar?, Sapna)
6. jaan kii baazii lagaane waalaa hotaa hai... (Manhar)
7. allaahu akbar allahu akbar... (dunno singers)
The last number, picturized on Amrish Puri in some shrine is
probably what you are referring to.
Anand Tiwari
In article , Hema says...
>
>
>AFAIR, there was only one song picturised on Sangeeta, a solo in
>Alisha's voice - "raat bhar jaam se jaam takraayega".
Hema,
Allow me to correct here. If you see the movie and Rajiv Rai has stated
this in FF when he was accused of giving more footage to Sonam that
Sangeeta had 2 songs in the film beside the group song "gazar ne kiya
hai ishaara:. He went by the script according to him.
The songs from tridev and whom they are picturized on
"Gali Gali mein phirta hai" (Sangeeta and Jackie)
"Raat bhar jaam se" (Sangeeta and the villains :))
"Main teri mohabbat se" (Madhuri and Sunny, opening song for the film)
"Tirchchi topi waale" (Sonam, happy version, sad version on Naseer)
"Gazar ne kiya hai ishaara" (Madhuri,Sonam and Sangeeta)
>
>> In Jaanbaaz, songs sung by B-grade singers had better tunes than the only
>> song given to KK. Unfortunate, as again, I think the tunes were good, but
>> ruined by the choice of singers. What I do find admirable is, the same duo
>> which gave masterpieces like "chaahe paas ho, chaahe duur ho", "bhula do
>> muhabbat me kabhi ham mile the" and "waqt karata jo wafa" could also handle
>> the "new generation music" well. They didn't blame it on "changing times".
>> I have a looong article on KA in the making and hope to post it soon.
>
>jaanbaaz had a very good soundtrack, IMO. There was a qawwali kind of a
>song. Can someone remind me of that?
>
The credits for "Jaanbaaz " say introducing two sensational singers
Mahesh Gadhvi and Sapna Mukherjee. The qawaali song you are
referring is "Allah hu akbar" and it is actually sung at a dargah where
Amrish has gone to offer prayer's for the well being of his younger
son Anil Kapoor. Jaanbaaz had exceptional photography (FF award)
and i love a song from the film "Har kisi ko nahin milta yahan pyaar
zindagi mein" sung by Sadhana Sargam.. It is picturized on Sridevi
with wonderful photography (super imposition of clouds etc).
As an aside, i have always liked KA. In any interview they come
out as nice people, witty and well mannered.
Of course they have composed one of my personal
favourites, Zindagi Ka Safar sung by Kishore da. Also who can forget
"Pal pal dil ke paas" from "Blackmail". They may not be all time great
composer's but they surely have given decent music.
regards
Anand ( A Kishore Kumar fan, forever)
>hema.
ravi_krishna
In article <ufafg8b...@isip.msstate.edu>, Neeraj says...
> "The wrong people are being hanged here"... :-) 'Dayavan' is a
>Laxmi-Pyare score. Feroze Khan seems to have switched loyalties here,
>as K-A were regulars for his post-RDB-phase films.
I think u are confusing Feroz Khan with Sanjay Khan. FK was never a RDB
loyalist. All his home production from Aparadh(1972) were KA , until Dayavan.
SanjayK OTOH was a RDB loyalist before he too switched to LP in "Kala dhanda
gore log". Better late than never :-)
-- RaviK.
PS: I never take part in flame wars, I only start it.
Arnab Gupta
Anand Tiwari wrote:
>
..[deleted]..
> { This is excrepted from a personal email sent to me by Pallab
> Bhattacharya }
>
> It shows the lyrics are also copied. The film "Neel Akasher Neeche"
> was made in the '60s and was Mrinal Sen's first feature film.
Mrinal Sen's first film was "Raatbhor" (Uttamkumar played one of
the lead roles).
So i guess
> if the original tune was in "Neel Akasher Neechey" we should credit
> Pandit (the status accorded by Rajan) Salil Chaudhry with the original tune.
>
AFAIK, Hemanta Mukherjee was the producer and music director of
"Neel Akasher Neechey".
> /* Begin excrept */
>
> >Interestingly, the lyrics are exact of "Neele Neele Ambar" is exact Hindi
> >translation of the Bengali version "Neel Neel Aakaashe" from the movie
> >"Neel Aakaasher Neeche" which also was sung by Kishore Kumar.
I think there is a confusion here. I cannot remember any song sung
by Kishore from "Neel Akasher Neechey" (I can't remember this particular
song being mentioned here also!)
Thanks,
Arnab.
ravi_krishna
In article <628b58$j...@drn.zippo.com>, anand....@prairiecomm.com says...
>
>{ This is excrepted from a personal email sent to me by Pallab
> Bhattacharya }
>
>It shows the lyrics are also copied. The film "Neel Akasher Neeche"
>if the original tune was in "Neel Akasher Neechey" we should credit
>Pandit (the status accorded by Rajan) Salil Chaudhry with the original tune.
>
>
>>Interestingly, the lyrics are exact of "Neele Neele Ambar" is exact Hindi
>>translation of the Bengali version "Neel Neel Aakaashe" from the movie
>>the Bengali version is Salil Chowdhury and the tunes are somehow similar
>>(you have to listen to the Bengali version to realize the subtle similarity
>>of the two tunes). IMHO, KA did a good job of not copying but kind of
>>using the basic tune set by Salil Chowdhury and building on it. I am
>>just guessing that the Bengali version came out earlier, which I may be
>>wrong about.
>>Thanks,
>>...Pallab
So it is suggested here that Ilayairaja himself copied it from Salid Da. Well
I have to listen to both the versions to come to any conclusion. BTW if you
had read my reply I had mentioned that Raja was a guitarist in Salil Da's team
and who knows even the original Salid Da work may actually be that of Raja's
work. :-)
-- RaviK.
PS: My intention is not to create any Salil vs Raja war. To me both were
exceptionally good.
ravi_krishna
In article <ufbu0ob...@isip.msstate.edu>, Neeraj says...
> The other songs are pretty humdrum. EMI (or is it Music
>India?) has a CD release of 'Kalakaar' with 'Saverey waali gaaDi',
>which is a fairly decent buy. The latter soundtrack was recently
>discussed on RMIM, and is one of my favorites.
Of course Saware Waali Gaadi is one of my favorites too. It had RDB in
vintage form. Unlike RDB's scores in 80's , which were mostly stale ,
it had freshness. My preference for SWG songs are:-
dekho hein kaun aaya .. (Suresh W , Asha) really beautiful tune.
bin payal kee chum (Suresh W)
din pyar ke (Lata).
There was a non descriptive KK song also in that film.
BTW it is neither EMI nor Music India , it is CBS. I don't have the CD/tape
of the film but I have a CD on Suresh Wadkar which has two songs mentioned
above.
-- RaviK.
PS: We should take it as a coincidence that RDB did not use the service of the
most horrible singer of the century a.k.a Amit Kumar for SWG.
Venugopal V. Iyer
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon wrote:
> Hema <hnk...@pitt.edu> writes:
>
> > AFAIR, there was only one song picturised on Sangeeta, a solo in
> > Alisha's voice - "raat bhar jaam se jaam takraayega". I liked tridev
> > songs a lot but cannot remember this song you are referring to.
>
> Abhay probably wanted 'galii galii me.n phirataa hai...'
>
> > > In Jaanbaaz, songs sung by B-grade singers had better tunes than the
> > > only song given to KK. Unfortunate, as again, I think the tunes were
> > > good, but ruined by the choice of singers. What I do find admirable
> > > is, the same duo which gave masterpieces like "chaahe paas ho,
> > > chaahe duur ho", "bhula do muhabbat me kabhi ham mile the" and "waqt
> > > karata jo wafa" could also handle the "new generation music"
> > > well. They didn't blame it on "changing times". I have a looong
> > > article on KA in the making and hope to post it soon.
>
> > jaanbaaz had a very good soundtrack, IMO. There was a qawwali kind
> > of a song. Can someone remind me of that?
>
> I agree. And unlike Abhay, I like the KK song more than the
> others even for its tune. Songs of Jaanbaaz as I recall them are as
> follows ---
>
> 1. teraa saath hai kitanaa pyaara... (Kishore, Alka)
> 2. pyaar do, pyaar lo... (Sapna Mukherji)
> 3. give me love, give me love (English -- dunno singers)
> 4. har kisii ko nahii.n milataa... (Manhar, Sapna)
> 5. jaanejaanaa, o jaanejaanaa... (Manhar?, Sapna)
> 6. jaan kii baazii lagaane waalaa hotaa hai... (Manhar)
> 7. allaahu akbar allahu akbar... (dunno singers)
>
i remember a song which goes something like
Dil lena khel hai dildar ka, bhule se naam na lo pyaar la .......
Is it one of the abovementioneg songs, or have I got the wrong movie?
Thanks
Venu
(a rafian)
ravi_krishna
In article <628eti$1...@drn.zippo.com>, anand....@prairiecomm.com says...
> Jaanbaaz had exceptional photography (FF award)
>and i love a song from the film "Har kisi ko nahin milta yahan pyaar
>zindagi mein" sung by Sadhana Sargam.. It is picturized on Sridevi
>with wonderful photography (super imposition of clouds etc).
And Sri looked ravishing in that song. She completely overshadowed Dimple.
>As an aside, i have always liked KA. In any interview they come
>out as nice people, witty and well mannered.
>Of course they have composed one of my personal
>favourites, Zindagi Ka Safar sung by Kishore da. Also who can forget
>"Pal pal dil ke paas" from "Blackmail". They may not be all time great
>composer's but they surely have given decent music.
Zindagi Ka Safar has been played too many times and I got bored of it. I rate
"jeevan se bhari teri ankhen" as a better song. The blackmail song is also
good.
-- Ravi Krishna ( a KK basher forever)
Abhay Avachat
In article <ufafg8b...@isip.msstate.edu>, Neeraj says...
> "The wrong people are being hanged here"... :-) 'Dayavan' is a
>Laxmi-Pyare score. Feroze Khan seems to have switched loyalties here,
>as K-A were regulars for his post-RDB-phase films.
Oh, Good ! :-) Thanks to you and RaviK for the correction. I assumed the
MD were KS only because it was a FerozeK movie. Prakash Mehra is another
one to "switch loyalties" from KA to Bhappi Lehri - Sharabi, Namakhalal.
Who was MD of Jadugar ? Was it KA ? What does Prakash Mehra do nowadays ?
> Au contraire, I actually find Viju's orchestrations quite nice
>(e.g. Muqaddar Ka Badshah, or the more recent Tere Mere Sapne and Gupt).
This Muqaddar Ka Badshah I haven't heard. Yes, Tere Mere Sapne was quite
soothing. From Gupt I have heard only one song "meri neendo me tum" or
something. Catchy. Even Mohra's "mast mast" was well orchestrated, a bit
better than original (which has a different reason to enjoy it - NFAK's
singing). Anyway, so Viju Shah does well sometimes. Was there any movie
by him with name Ravanraj or something ? I remember hearing only the ads.
The songs sounded quite bad.
- Abhay.
Happy to read some nice things about KA on RMIM ...
ravi_krishna
In article <3447D7DD...@ececs.uc.edu>, "Venugopal says...
>i remember a song which goes something like
>Dil lena khel hai dildar ka, bhule se naam na lo pyaar la .......
The song u are referring is from Zamme Kho Dihkana Hai(1982),MD=RDB and by the
God's grace the singer was also RDB($%^&*). It was a real torture to listen
to that song.
-- RaviK.
ravi_krishna
In article <628mkk$r...@drn.zippo.com>, ava...@hotmail.com says...
>Oh, Good ! :-) Thanks to you and RaviK for the correction. I assumed the
>MD were KS only because it was a FerozeK movie. Prakash Mehra is another
>one to "switch loyalties" from KA to Bhappi Lehri - Sharabi, Namakhalal.
>Who was MD of Jadugar ? Was it KA ? What does Prakash Mehra do nowadays ?
Jadugar was KA. Another pathetic film of theirs.
>
>This Muqaddar Ka Badshah I haven't heard. Yes, Tere Mere Sapne was quite
>soothing. From Gupt I have heard only one song "meri neendo me tum" or
>something. Catchy. Even Mohra's "mast mast" was well orchestrated, a bit
>better than original (which has a different reason to enjoy it - NFAK's
>singing). Anyway, so Viju Shah does well sometimes. Was there any movie
>by him with name Ravanraj or something ? I remember hearing only the ads.
>The songs sounded quite bad.
Viju Shah has taken over from KA of 80s. All their songs sound the same
to me, eg: Gupt.
-- RaviK.
ravi_krishna
> "S. says...
>well, don;t make these blasphemic (sp?) statements.. have you heard songs
>from teri kasam, tezaab, 100 days?????
First I thank you for giving me an opportunity.
Here I go ...
AK IMO lacks the basic qualification needed to be a film singer. The number of
songs he has murdered is far too numerous to be described in brief space
allowed.
He goes off key (besura) which according to me is unpardonable for a film
singer. We are not talking about bath room singers. He never made an attempt
to improve his singing ability and to date remains a besura singer. I share
the opinion that whatever chance he got was due to his father. MD's like RDB or
LP were very close to KK and hence AK got all those chances. No doubt he got
some good tunes and he just piggybacked on that.
Ask any person who has a knowledge of sur, whether AK sings in sur. The answer
will be an emphatic **NO**.
Kumar Sanu is nasal. He may copy KK , but at least his fundas are clear. He is
not besura (exceptions may be there). In the song "is tarah aashiqui ka" from
the film Imtihaan(1994) , AK version was full of basic grammatical mistakes in
singing whereas the KS version was perfect. No wonder KS bulldozed AK out of
business.
In another song "deewana dil deewana" from Kabhi Haa Kabhni Naa , AK sang
atrociously , so much that Udit Narayan looked God in comparison.
I have bashed KK so many times but I will never accuse him of going besura
( exceptions are there). KK was great is the sense that in spite of no
formal training he was in sur ALL THE TIME. Genius.
-- RaviK.
PS:I however agree that AK is miles ahead of Shabbir Kumar and Shailender Singh.
ravi_krishna
In article <628noh$1...@drn.zippo.com>, ava...@hotmail.com says...
>"Jeevan se bhari teri aankhen" is in the "Ultimate" category for me.
>The movie had a fabulous soundtrack. Mukesh's "jo tumko ho pasand" was
>good, so was "nadiya chale chale re dhara". And the ultimate classic is
>"ham the jinke sahaare, wo hue na hamaare" - what a superb flowing melody.
Spot on Abhay. The car honk in the song "jo tumko ho pasand" was superb. Very
creative piece of music.
-- RaviK.
Renu Thamma
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon (desh...@isip.msstate.edu) wrote:
: sne...@sequent.com (Snehal B. Oza) writes:
: > BTW, were there any more songs in Kalaakar ? I somehow remember that
: > there was one more SW song in it.
: The other songs are pretty humdrum. EMI (or is it Music
: India?) has a CD release of 'Kalakaar' with 'Saverey waali gaaDi',
: which is a fairly decent buy. The latter soundtrack was recently
: discussed on RMIM, and is one of my favorites.
It is released by Pan Music and although I cannot remember the songs of
the movie I believe the first 8 tracks are from Kalaakar. The sad and
happy versions probably count as separate songs. Of course the real joy
starts at the 9th song. 'Din pyaar ke..' from Saveray waali GaaDi.
Renu.
Snehal B. Oza
In <625rsk$i...@drn.zippo.com> Ravi Krishna writes:
>That brings up to the topic of this thread. How did KA fare in 80s. My
>opinion is that they were ATROCIOUS in 80s. One hallmark of their scores in
>80s was that all songs of the film will sound the same, eg: Jaanbaaz, Tridev,
>Sultanant, Datta , Laawaris etc. Their worst was CID (1990).
When was Kalaakar ? It was made by Manoj Kumar starring Kunal Goswami
(his son) and had music by Kalayanji Anandji. I believe this Suresh Wadekar
song
'Deet Jalaaye Jo Geeton Ke Maine, Baadal Kyon Ghir Aaye' (Sad)
and
'Deet Jalaaye Jo Geeton Ke Maine, Khusiyon Ke Baadal Chhaye' (Happy)
is from Kalakaar. I remember that film didn't create any ripples. I too,
discovered these songs as late as in 1994. I guess film was released in 1983 ?
If it was indeed early 1980s film, then I urge you to give it try. It may change
your opinion. If you already know about this, I am curious to know what did you
not like there ? BTW, were there any more songs in Kalaakar ? I somehow
remember that there was one more SW song in it.
Regards,
Snehal
Pradeep Dubey
Ravi,
But that should be easy to prove, just find some other song of Salil
that IR copied.
Then one could apply the IR's mode-of-operation theory (based on KA
datapoint
of 'neele neele ambar' and 'kasme vaade') which says: "if you copy one
of mine, I will
copy one of yours". But see, you will have to concede one 'copy' charge
at least on
behalf of IR to apply this theory. So have faith, I am sure, someone
will find the truth :-)
>
> -- RaviK.
>
> PS: My intention is not to create any Salil vs Raja war. To me both were
> exceptionally good.
Now here you have too much faith in RaviK. How do you know RaviK's
intention
was not to start a Salil Vs. Raja war?
All in fun, Ravi.
Pradeep
P.S.
BTW Is your other 'favorite' MD also likely to have copied his guitarist
(Bhupinder's)
tunes?
P.P.S. I promise a more serious post after this not-so-serious one.
S. Saxena
On 17 Oct 1997, it was written:
> > "S. says...
> >well, don;t make these blasphemic (sp?) statements.. have you heard songs
> >from teri kasam, tezaab, 100 days?????
>
> First I thank you for giving me an opportunity.
>
>
> Kumar Sanu is nasal. He may copy KK , but at least his fundas are clear. He is
> not besura (exceptions may be there).
I am not sure which fundas you are talking about.. I still remember that
TVS SA RE GA MA, in which KS was the guest. There was not even a single
song for which he could identify the chords. Every time, Sonu Nigam had to
tell him .. " Sanu Da Sahi hai" and then Sanu da would nod his head.
> In the song "is tarah aashiqui ka" from
> the film Imtihaan(1994) , AK version was full of basic grammatical mistakes in
> singing whereas the KS version was perfect. No wonder KS bulldozed AK out of
> business.
>
First of all, not that I had ever heard this song properly. Then I did not
even know that this was sung by 2 different people and one of them being
AK. If I could not recognize that, then I am sure AK must have sung it as
bad as KS.
> In another song "deewana dil deewana" from Kabhi Haa Kabhni Naa , AK sang
> atrociously , so much that Udit Narayan looked God in comparison.
>
This was a beautiful number. And both AK and UN were good.
> I have bashed KK so many times but I will never accuse him of going besura
> ( exceptions are there). KK was great is the sense that in spite of no
> formal training he was in sur ALL THE TIME. Genius.
>
>
Do you have something against the father and the son???
> PS:I however agree that AK is miles ahead of Shabbir Kumar and Shailender Singh.
I am happy that you acknowledged that AK is better than some, but I am
again offended as I love Shailender Singh's voice. He has the most
Nasheelee voice I have ever heard.. If you don't believe me, then better
listen to "Paas aao na.." from Saagar or " Hoga tumse pyaara kaun or Pari
ho aasmani tum.." from ZKDH or " Kal to sunday ki chutti hai.." from ATNH.
before you respond.
ravi_krishna
In article <3448BB97...@ececs.uc.edu>, "Venugopal says...
> Is Zammne fo Dikhana Hai the movie with RishiK and PadminiK(??), because I
>remember a rafi-asha song from Zammne ko Dihkana hai which goes something like
>
>Poocho Na Yaar Kya hua, Dil ka karrar Kya hua.....
Yup the same movie.
>
>If memory serves me right the title song is by the RDB fav. Shailender Singh.
>
>Was wondering how this could have been an 82 movie, when rafi passed away in
>>80!
Why not. Generally songs are recorded much earlier than the shooting of the
film. Also ZKDH ran into some production problems which delayed its release
by at least 6 months.
Couple of other 1982 films which had songs by Rafi: Desh Preme
Rajput.
-- RaviK.
ravi_krishna
In article <62fqhm$s...@drn.zippo.com>, Ketan says...
>
>PS : I know RaviK is already working on one book, but may I suggest that this
>might be a good time to come out with a book on "Ilaiyaraja's copied tunes". :)
Copied songs of Ilayairaja has already been discussed in Tamil Film Music page.
It turned out to be less than 20 songs , in a career of over 700 films in
over 20 years. With this material I can't write a book. That honor goes to one
and only RDB.
-- RaviK.
ravi_krishna
>In article <62g6d1$g...@drn.zippo.com>, Ketan says...
>Somebody.. I wonder who.. once said...
>One more excuse from a "musical" genius..
It's not an excuse. Tell me O genius can I write a book of max 20 pages. There
is a world of a difference in copying very rarely and copying regularly. While
the former has been done even by stalwarts like S D Burman, Madan Mohan,Naushad,
Iraja, the latter club belongs to RDB, Bappi Lahiri,Anu Mallik.
In cricket failing once in a while in bating is not equal to failing regularly.
I hope this is clear to you.
-- RaviK.
Anand Tiwari
In article , Ketan says...
>
>In article <344835...@watson.ibm.com>, Pradeep says...
>>at least on
>>behalf of IR to apply this theory. So have faith, I am sure, someone
>>will find the truth :-)
>
>
>According to the Encyclopaedia of Indian Cinema...
>
>1) "Neel Akasher Neechey" was in 1958. It was Mrinal Sen's second movie and
>starred Kali Banerjee, Manju Dey and Bikash Roy
>
>2) By Ilaiyaraja's own admission we know that he started his career as a
>guitarist in the movie GoaDali CID 999 which according to the same book was
>released in 1968.
>
<a gem of a post snipped>
Ketan,
Thanks for the post. Very informative and logical. Time for a second book
bit was hilarious!! I am sure you must have always got an A in logic,
even from Ashok ji. Nothing more to add except for the fact that
mazaa aa gaya! I am really interested in the second book you mentioned.
When is it going to come out? Should be priceless :) or as Shashi Kapoor
says in Shaan during the car scene (rolling the word and rounding it)
Anmol!!!!!!!!!
regards
Anand
ravi_krishna
> "S. says...
>I am not sure which fundas you are talking about.. I still remember that
>TVS SA RE GA MA, in which KS was the guest. There was not even a single
>song for which he could identify the chords. Every time, Sonu Nigam had to
>tell him .. " Sanu Da Sahi hai" and then Sanu da would nod his head.
I did not see that TVS program. My comment is based on the songs of KS.
Sonu Nigam is in a different class. He is without doubt the best of the
present generation.
>Do you have something against the father and the son???
Sure. Ever since KK took Rs 50000 from me and never returned it, in spite of
many reminders I hate his family. Satisfied.
>I have ever heard.. If you don't believe me, then better
>listen to "Paas aao na.." from Saagar or " Hoga tumse pyaara kaun or Pari
>ho aasmani tum.." from ZKDH or " Kal to sunday ki chutti hai.." from ATNH.
>before you respond.
Oh my God. Someone actually praising Shailender's Singh singing in Sagar.
-- RaviK.
Ketan
So if the MD HAD been Salil, it would be impossible for 'Raja to have suggested
the tune to Salil unless he had somehow "transmogorified"--(in Calvin
speak)--himself into Salil's head.
What the book also says is that "Neel Akasher Neechey" was produced by Hemant
Mukherjee, and he also gave the music. The movie is known for its song "O nodire
ekti kothai sudhai" the tune of which one gets to hear in Kohraa as "O Beqarar
dil"(Thanks to Bombay DD for the repeated telecasts of its Hemant M shows).
Now in 1958, KA were Hemant M's assistant. Thanks to Ravi's own suggestion it
is therefore absolutely possible that KA indeed composed the tune for "Neeley
Neeley Ambar".
If they did indeed compose it, than they have every right to reuse their tune
for a Hindi movie. Even if Hemant M had composed it, it is possible that KA did
atleast some work on the tune, and as Pallabh has mentioned, they did not copy
the tune exactly as it appeared in the Bengali movie, so they are morally and
maybe even ethically justified in copying.
Ilaiyaraja OTOH, blatantly copies the HemantM/KA tune, and then when his 'theft'
is discovered, goes on to make a further ass of himself by copying one more KA
tune. I mean, how LOW can you stoop? :) What is that saying of "Pehle chori phir
seena .." Guess he rates KA much higher than anyone on RMIM does.
So Pradeep we can safely conclude that 'Raja has flicked atleast 2 tunes in his
"illustrious" career of which, atleast one from KA and possibly both. Since
RMIMers in general think that Ilaiyaraja > KA, I'Raja cannot even hide under
Madan Mohan's excuse to Sajjad.
Tut! Tut! How "creative"? :) (as in major clicking of the tongue and not some
bandaged Egyptian King).
Ketan
A Burman fan(atic)
ravi_krishna
In article <344B96...@ucla.edu>, Vishal says...
>How about Naseeb? "John Johnny Janardhan." Was that the last song of his
>which was in a film appearance?
Naseeb is a 1981 release.
The last song of Rafi AFAIK is "tere mil ne ki aas .." from Aas Pas(1981).
-- RaviK.
Abhay Avachat
>RMIMers in general think that Ilaiyaraja > KA, I'Raja cannot even hide under
>Madan Mohan's excuse to Sajjad.
Ketan, let me thank you for this defense of KA :-) and shift the focus
to the familiar bottle of plagiarism, but fill it with new (hopefully)
wine. These are questions, for which I do not know all the answers.
And where I do know the answers, I haven't heard the original song.
So I cannot vouch for the veracity of these claims. Decide for yourself.
1. Madanmohan has taken the tune of "one Lata song from Heer-Ranjha" from
a Mehdi Hasan GHazal. Which song ?
(Ketan's remark about Madan Mohan reminded me of all this)
2. OPN has based the tune of the second line of "le ke pehla pehla pyar"
ie. the line "jadunagari se aayaa hai koi jaadugar" on a Naushad song.
Which is the original song ?
3. OPN's "tum rooth ke mat jaana" from Faagun is based on a Panjabi folk
tune. Which Anil-Biswas song is also based on the same tune ?
4. Rajesh Roshan's famous (and quite a nice tune) song "suraj kab duur
kiran se, chanda kab duur gagan se .. ye bandhan to pyar ka bandhan hai"
from the newish movie Karan-Arjun has the tune borrowed from a flute
piece in some Roshan song. Which one ?
(This reminds me of an interesting interview of Lata. She says, "I told
Raju [Rajesh Roshan], if you want to give good music, at least listen
to your father's songs for once. You will learn a lot from it. He just
ignored my advice. I told his mother too, but no use. She says, Raju
anyway doesn't like his father's music much !! I was speechless."
Hilarious idiot ! Rajesh Roshan ko to jutiyaa padani chaahiye.)
I have read these claims here and there in different interviews. Some
times the original song was mentioned. But I haven't heard them. Hence
just asking these in form of questions :-) and not stating them. Again,
the information could be wrong, you have been warned. Some or all of these
may have already been discussed on RMIM, but I don't remember it.
Have fun,
- Abhay.
Dispensing some pearls of wisdom (a borrowed one) :-)
Pradeep Dubey
Here is one more I discovered few months back:
Te best Lata song from RAAHGIR (Hemant/Gulzar) is:
mitwaa re, bhool gaye the raaheN, o mitwaa ...
This song has a line:
dhoop mein dekhee chhaoN ki choTeiN ...
The tune for that line is identical to the following line in
a popular Mukesh song (hamne tumko pyaar kiya hai jitna):
teri adaa ke bholepan pe ...
The two songs are otherwise sufficiently different from each other.
I don't recall the Pstats for the second song. I will still be curious
to know which of these two songs was composed first.
Pradeep
Anand Tiwari
In article , Ravi says...
>
>In article <62j7v7$5u8$2...@murrow.corp.sgi.com>, ven...@fstpitch.corp.sgi.com
>>Ravi,
>>
>>RDB was in touch with some Latin American pop group and they used to
>>exchange tunes.I remember reading this in Filmfare longtime back.
>
>Is the group you are referring called Panthera.
The Album which RDB and that group (i forget the name of the gentleman
with whom RD collaborated) was called "Pantera". It was covered in FilmFare
as rightly pointed out by Venkatesh.
regards
Anand
>
>-- RaviK.
Unknown
>According to Raj N Sippy , Satte Pe Satta was inspired by an English movie
>and so were the songs from the same movie. Generally RDB use to give this
>kind of excuses , but this time that job was done by Raj Sippy.
The movie which 'inspired' Satte pe Satta was Seven brides for Seven brothers.
The movie was a faithful copy of the English film with a lot of added 'masala'
:-) the crippled heiress Ranjeeta, the wicked uncle Amjad Khan and the hit man
Babu (Amitabh is a double role) were all part of the scriptwriter's fertile
imagination :-)) But an enjoyable movie nevertheless!
Keep smiling
Nita
Gairo.n ko kyaa pa.Dii hai ki rusavaa mujhe kare.n
in saazisho.n me.n haath kisii aashanaa kaa hai
- Asad Badayuni
ravi_krishna
In article <62j7v7$5u8$2...@murrow.corp.sgi.com>, ven...@fstpitch.corp.sgi.com
>Ravi,
>
>RDB was in touch with some Latin American pop group and they used to
>exchange tunes.I remember reading this in Filmfare longtime back.
Is the group you are referring called Panthera.
-- RaviK.
Ashoke Kumar Sinha
>-- RaviK.
>
>PS: My intention is not to create any Salil vs Raja war. To me both were
>exceptionally good.
=====================
There is already a series of mails discussing who composed the tune of
"Neele neele ambar par". Although RaviK started the thread, the
follow-ups are due to Anand's quotation of Pallab's personal mail. In
the earlier days of RMIM, there were Rafi-fans, Kishore-fans,
Mukesh-fans. Now we have KK-bashers, Rafi-smashers etc. Among the
KK-bashers, the great RaviK is the most successful, because his
comments about KK (and also RD) caused to form a very strong
RaviK-basher group. So when Pallab's mail was published, this
RaviK-basher group got a good opportunity to take an upperhand on
RaviK (at the expense of Ilayairaja) and they did not waste it.
Now I am a small fish in RMIM compared to the greats like RaviK. I
also happen to be a Kishore Kumar and RD Burman fan, but it did not
stop me to admire Ilayairaja's compositions (why me, even RD was in
all praise of Ilayairaja in one of his last interviews in a Bengali
Weekly "Saptahik Bartaman"). So I do feel that many of you did a gross
injustice on Ilayairaja while bashing RaviK. And I feel so because
most of your comments are based on Pallab's mail which contains some
wrong informations.
The Bengali song "Neel neel akaashe" is not from the film "Neel
Akasher Neeche". It is from the film "Aashrita" (starring Mithu
Mukherjee, Kanwaljeet, dir: Chandra Barot) - the film was first named
"Ranga Bhanga Chand" (the same name as Pratibha Basu's novel, based on
which the film was made). This was a film of the mid-80's and due to
some problem, it was ultimately released in '90 (or may be in '91).
The music director of the film was Hridaynath Mangeshkar, but the
background music was by Late Salil Chowdhury. This particular song has
almost the same lyrics as that of "Neele neele ambar par" and there is
also significant similarity in the tunes. The song was recorded much
before the film's release, but I do not think it was before
"Kalaakar".
I have never listened to the Tamil version so I cannot tell how much
similarity the Bengali song had compared to the Tamil one - but "Neel
neel akashe" does not have as good a guitar prelude compared to "Neele
neele ambar par" (which is again, according to RaviK, quite below par
compared to the Tamil vesrion).
Somebody already has mentioned that the film "Neel Akasher Neeche" had
Hemanta Mukherjee as music director (not Salil Chowdhury). It has no
songs sung by Kishore. There is a beautiful song "Neel akasher neeche
ei prithibee", sung by Hemanta ; but the tune is not at all same as
that of "Neele neele ambar par". But the most popular song of "Neel
Akasher Neeche" is "O nodee-re ekti katha sudhaai sudhu tomaare".
Regards,
Ashoke.
Arnab Gupta
Ashok wrote:
...[deleted]..
> My introduction to the song "o nodi re" was quite indirect, as I came
> to realize much later. The first time I heard the tune was through the
> Lata song in 'Kohra' "o beqaraar dil". The next was when I watched
> Conrad Rooks' 'Siddhartha', based on Herman Hesse's novel, starring
> Shashi Kapoor and Simi Garewal. It had music by Hemant Kumar and used
> portions of "o nodi re" quite often in the background. It was much
> later that a Bengali friend played for me what she said was considered
> her familiy's priceless possession, two songs she recorded from the
> two sides of a 78-rpm record. One was "o nodi re." The rendition is
> slower, more abstract and majestic than the Lata song.
>
> Ashok
>
> PS: The other song my friend played for me, from the other side of
> the 78-rpm according to her, was from a film whose name is I think
> 'Maruteertha Hinglaj': "amay proshno kore neel dhrubo taara" (sorry
> for mutilaing the song and perhaps the film name also). Will someone
> please give details of this song? I am sure RMIMers would be avidly
> interested, because it is the tune of "kahi.n door jab din Dhal jaae."
I'm not sure if the song "Amay proshno korey..." is from Marutirtha
Hinglaaj". However, (if I remember correctly) one song from
Marutirtha Hinglaaj,"Pather klanti bhuley sneho makha kole tobo ma go
bolo kobey sheetol hobo..." was used by Hemanta in Conrad Rook's
Siddhartha.
Thanks,
Arnab.
Dev Mannemela
In article <344df081...@nntp.eur.nl>,
Ashoke Kumar Sinha <ash...@tir.few.eur.nl> wrote:
>also happen to be a Kishore Kumar and RD Burman fan, but it did not
>stop me to admire Ilayairaja's compositions (why me, even RD was in
>all praise of Ilayairaja in one of his last interviews in a Bengali
>Weekly "Saptahik Bartaman").
So what exactly had RDB to say about IRaja and when exactly was this?
I am very curious to know..
Thanks !
dev
Ashok
In article <344DF5A7...@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu>, gup...@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu says...
>
>I'm not sure if the song "Amay proshno korey..." is from Marutirtha
>Hinglaaj". However, (if I remember correctly) one song from
>Marutirtha Hinglaaj,"Pather klanti bhuley sneho makha kole tobo ma go
>bolo kobey sheetol hobo..." was used by Hemanta in Conrad Rook's
>Siddhartha.
>
>Thanks,
>Arnab.
Thanks for straigtening it out, Arnab. It comes back better now!
"pather klanti bhule" composed and sung by Hemant is the song that
is supposed to have featured on the other side of the famour 78-rpm.
Could someone give P-stats for "amayy proshno kore"? Almost certainly
it would be a Salil creation. I might have my wires tangled too badly,
but I remember Kishore as the singer.
Ashok
Renu Thamma
RaviKrishna wrote:
: Thanks Ashoke. You didn't know how Raja fans like me and Renu Thamma
: were incensed by this baseless allegation by fans of RDB that Raja
: copied this song. I think they were desperate to prove that all MD's
: were maha-chor like RDB in a pathetic attempt to justify RDB's copying
: disease.
Some major clarifications from my side ---
I am an RDB fan. The part of this discussion that I disagreed with is to
claim that Raja copied the tune of 'neele neele ambar par'. That has
nothing to do with Ravi's personal agendas against RDB's music which I do
not agree with at all. But that is not the topic of this discussion.
I also think that the baseless allegations had nothing to do with the fact
that they came from an RDB fan. It simply has to do with someone who has
their fundas all twisted up.
Now for the issue at hand ---
1. Raja composed 'illaya nila ...' for the movie Pyanagal Mudividhillai
starring Mohan and Purnima Jayaram. This movie/music released in 1982.
2. KA composed 'neele neele ambar par' for Kalakaar in 1983.
3. Hridayanath Mangeshkar composed 'neel neel akaashe' for the film
Aashrita, which most probably came out much after Kalakaar. I am including
the relevant portion of Ashoke's post regarding this song.
// startquote
The Bengali song "Neel neel akaashe" is not from the film "Neel
Akasher Neeche". It is from the film "Aashrita" (starring Mithu
Mukherjee, Kanwaljeet, dir: Chandra Barot) - the film was first named
"Ranga Bhanga Chand" (the same name as Pratibha Basu's novel, based on
which the film was made). This was a film of the mid-80's and due to
some problem, it was ultimately released in '90 (or may be in '91).
The music director of the film was Hridaynath Mangeshkar, but the
background music was by Late Salil Chowdhury. This particular song has
almost the same lyrics as that of "Neele neele ambar par" and there is
also significant similarity in the tunes. The song was recorded much
before the film's release, but I do not think it was before
"Kalaakar".
// endquote
'Neel Akasher Neeche' with music by Hemant da does not feature in this
discussion at all as the the song 'neel akasher neeche ei prithibee' has
no similarity or connection to 'neele neele ambar par'.
Based on these point of data I can safely assume that the Raja composition
came out first. Whether KA copied or not or just happen to think of the
exact tune one year later is not my gripe at the moment. Also HM has
considerably modified the tune and hence cannot be held liable for
copying, IMO. But that is not the primary issue at hand either.
Ketan writes:
// startquote
Now in 1958, KA were Hemant M's assistant. Thanks to Ravi's own
suggestion it is therefore absolutely possible that KA indeed composed the
tune for "Neeley Neeley Ambar".
If they did indeed compose it, than they have every right to reuse their
tune for a Hindi movie. Even if Hemant M had composed it, it is possible
that KA did atleast some work on the tune, and as Pallabh has mentioned,
they did not copy the tune exactly as it appeared in the Bengali movie, so
they are morally and maybe even ethically justified in copying.
Ilaiyaraja OTOH, blatantly copies the HemantM/KA tune, and then when his
'theft' is discovered, goes on to make a further ass of himself by copying
one more KA tune. I mean, how LOW can you stoop? :) What is that saying of
"Pehle chori phir seena .." Guess he rates KA much higher than anyone on
RMIM does.
// endquote
Besides blatant factual errors in the above section, there's errors in
logic too.
Now suppose for just a li'l while we accept that the song by Hemant da was
the original to 'neele neele ambar par' and 'ilaya nila' (which it isn't),
why is it 'morally and maybe even ethically justified' for KA to recycle
the tune and modify it in the process but when Raja does it --- ta da!
bring the axe down on his neck, eh? This is particularly unfair given that
Raja's version came out first!
The Bengali version (by HM) came after Raja's and KA's. The Hemant da
song and movie had nothing to do with 'neele neele ambar/ilaya nila'.
So who is the original composer of this tune? One doesn't need an A in
decision theory to figure this one out, I am sure.
Renu.
Siddhartha Duttagupta
On Wed, 22 Oct 1997 12:46:31 -0400, Arnab Gupta
<gup...@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
> However, (if I remember correctly) one song from
>Marutirtha Hinglaaj,"Pather klanti bhuley sneho makha kole tobo ma go
^^^^^^^
>bolo kobey sheetol hobo..." was used by Hemanta in Conrad Rook's
>Siddhartha.
>
>Thanks,
>Arnab.
just nitpicking arnab, it is "sneha bhora koley tobo"
I don't know what either "sneha makha kol" or "sneha bhora kol" means
though; since bengali tradition overwhelmingly indicates the bosom to
be the container of sneha.
Unless offcourse it is the "other" form of sneha as in podartho;))
sorry for the pun.
regards, siddhartha
Ashok
In article <344df081...@nntp.eur.nl>, ash...@tir.few.eur.nl says...
>
>
>Somebody already has mentioned that the film "Neel Akasher Neeche" had
>Hemanta Mukherjee as music director (not Salil Chowdhury). It has no
>songs sung by Kishore. There is a beautiful song "Neel akasher neeche
>ei prithibee", sung by Hemanta ; but the tune is not at all same as
>that of "Neele neele ambar par". But the most popular song of "Neel
>Akasher Neeche" is "O nodee-re ekti katha sudhaai sudhu tomaare".
>
>Regards,
>
> Ashoke.
Thanks for the sportive and wonderfully written clarification, Ashoke,
regarding the origins of "neele neele ambar." Let me branch off from
the last song you mentioned above.
Balaji A.S. Murthy
In article <62ld7s$a...@news1.zippo.com>, ADhar...@WorldBank.Org says...
>
>In article <344DF5A7...@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu>,
gup...@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu says...
>>
>
>>I'm not sure if the song "Amay proshno korey..." is from Marutirtha
>>Siddhartha.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Arnab.
>
>"pather klanti bhule" composed and sung by Hemant is the song that
>is supposed to have featured on the other side of the famour 78-rpm.
>
>Could someone give P-stats for "amayy proshno kore"? Almost certainly
>it would be a Salil creation. I might have my wires tangled too badly,
>but I remember Kishore as the singer.
I don't know the p-stats. The song was composed by Salil, and AFAIR sung
by Manna Dey.
- Balaji
ravi_krishna
>There is already a series of mails discussing who composed the tune of
>"Neele neele ambar par". Although RaviK started the thread, the
>follow-ups are due to Anand's quotation of Pallab's personal mail. In
>the earlier days of RMIM, there were Rafi-fans, Kishore-fans,
>Mukesh-fans. Now we have KK-bashers, Rafi-smashers etc. Among the
>KK-bashers, the great RaviK is the most successful, because his
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I will take it as a compliment.
>comments about KK (and also RD) caused to form a very strong
>RaviK-basher group. So when Pallab's mail was published, this
>RaviK-basher group got a good opportunity to take an upperhand on
>RaviK (at the expense of Ilayairaja) and they did not waste it.
Who is the president of RK basher group. ?
>Now I am a small fish in RMIM compared to the greats like RaviK.
No need to be sarcastic.
>also happen to be a Kishore Kumar and RD Burman fan, but it did not
>stop me to admire Ilayairaja's compositions (why me, even RD was in
>all praise of Ilayairaja in one of his last interviews in a Bengali
>Weekly "Saptahik Bartaman").
RDB's admiration for Raja is a widely publicised fact in media , at least
in south media. A sound recordist in Madras(chennai) who has seen RDB in a
recording room where genius Raja was at work. Those were the words of RDB :-
"My God, where ever he touches(keyboard) he brings out music, I wish I had
talent like him".
>So I do feel that many of you did a gross
>injustice on Ilayairaja while bashing RaviK. And I feel so because
>most of your comments are based on Pallab's mail which contains some
>wrong informations.
>
>The Bengali song "Neel neel akaashe" is not from the film "Neel
>Akasher Neeche". It is from the film "Aashrita" (starring Mithu
>Mukherjee, Kanwaljeet, dir: Chandra Barot) - the film was first named
>"Ranga Bhanga Chand" (the same name as Pratibha Basu's novel, based on
>which the film was made). This was a film of the mid-80's and due to
The tamil version came in 1982 , Kalakaar came in 1983.
>some problem, it was ultimately released in '90 (or may be in '91).
>The music director of the film was Hridaynath Mangeshkar, but the
>background music was by Late Salil Chowdhury. This particular song has
>almost the same lyrics as that of "Neele neele ambar par" and there is
>also significant similarity in the tunes. The song was recorded much
>before the film's release, but I do not think it was before
>"Kalaakar".
>
>I have never listened to the Tamil version so I cannot tell how much
>similarity the Bengali song had compared to the Tamil one - but "Neel
>neel akashe" does not have as good a guitar prelude compared to "Neele
>neele ambar par" (which is again, according to RaviK, quite below par
>compared to the Tamil vesrion).
Please listen to the tamil song and see the difference in guitar. The guitar
piece in the tam version was out of the world. I suspect KA could not
reproduce it in Hindi and hence they modified it.
>Somebody already has mentioned that the film "Neel Akasher Neeche" had
>Hemanta Mukherjee as music director (not Salil Chowdhury). It has no
>songs sung by Kishore. There is a beautiful song "Neel akasher neeche
>ei prithibee", sung by Hemanta ; but the tune is not at all same as
>that of "Neele neele ambar par". But the most popular song of "Neel
>Akasher Neeche" is "O nodee-re ekti katha sudhaai sudhu tomaare".
BTW neele neele ambar resemebles the tam verion only in mukhada(prelude).
The interludes were different and also inferior. Of course one major reason
for hindi version coming out so badly (as compared to tam version ) was
due to KK singing it , compared to SPB in tamil.
Thanks Ashoke. You didn't know how Raja fans like me and Renu Thamma were
incensed by this baseless allegation by fans of RDB that Raja copied this song.
I think they were desperate to prove that all MD's were maha-chor like RDB in
a pathetic attempt to justify RDB's copying disease.
with warm regards.
-- RaviK.
lokeswar...@gmail.com
Lucky Rox
prof...@gmail.com
> > Neeraj D wrote:-
> >> What are the songs of 'Professor Pyarelal' ? Who is the MD?
>
> > It's a Kalyanji-Anandji soundtrack, fairly mediocre. The movie
> > stars Dharmendra, Zeenat, Shammi Kapoor and Vinod Mehra; and is even
> > worse. A couple of numbers I recall offhand are both Asha solos...
>
> o gaa gaa gaaye jaa, aur muskuraaye jaa...
> o koii hai?
> dilwaala, diiwaanaa, matawaalaa mastaanaa
> jo, jaan pe apanii khele...
>
> Add one more
> o Tere siva na kissi ke banuga (Rafi and Asha).
>
> The interludes of this song is remarkably similar to Qurbani song "kya
> dekthen ho , soorat tumari ...". Considering that both the movies were
> released within a span of couple of months in 1980 (Anand - PP is a 1980 movie),
> it speaks very low of creativity of KA.
>
> That brings up to the topic of this thread. How did KA fare in 80s. My
> opinion is that they were ATROCIOUS in 80s. One hallmark of their scores in
> 80s was that all songs of the film will sound the same, eg: Jaanbaaz, Tridev,
> Sultanant, Datta , Laawaris etc. Their worst was CID (1990).
> Mercifully they retired sparing us from the torture. Sad decline for the duo
> who were pretty good in 60s and 70s. In fact KA were the MDs who finally
> displaced Shankar Jaikishan in 1969 as the top MD after an amazing run of
> 18 years as the #1 MD. ( source Cibaca geet mala).
>
> -- RaviK.
neelle neele ambar per singing by kishore is far superior to SPB, in tamil version, the macho voice of kishoe full of depth and zes lingers on in your ears. the SPB version pales and on could see it from U tube as well