Bar bar dekho (China Town) copied by a foreign musical group?
Karthik S
Rajiv Vijayakar.
http://www.screenindia.com/dec31/music3.htm
"China Town (1962): Baar baar dekho, written by Majrooh, composed by
Ravi and sung by Mohammad Rafi became Hindi cinema’s first and
so far the only song to be copied (with full permission) by a foreign
musical group"
The hindi song itself sounds like a lift! But does anybody know which
is the foreign group and what's the song?
Karthik
http://www.iespana.es/i2fs/
Prakash Pradhan
Sorry Karthik for posting this para here. It is not in connection with
your Q but I remember having seen Annu Kapoor, in one of his
"Antakshari' programmes, referring this song to OPN as MD.
Surprisingly for me, OPN sitting in front, rose and waved his hands.
(In acknowledgement?)as I was also sure that it was Ravi. Can any one
throw any light on this?
PDP
SKalra902
>in...@onebox.com (Karthik S) wrote in message
>news:<62bc7341.02010...@posting.google.com>...
>> Found this in a old page of Screen magazine's website, compiled by
>> Rajiv Vijayakar.
>>
>> http://www.screenindia.com/dec31/music3.htm
>>
>> "China Town (1962): Baar baar dekho, written by Majrooh, composed by
>> Ravi and sung by Mohammad Rafi became Hindi cinema s first and
>> so far the only song to be copied (with full permission) by a foreign
>> musical group"
>>
>> The hindi song itself sounds like a lift! But does anybody know which
>> is the foreign group and what's the song?
>>
>> Karthik
>> http://www.iespana.es/i2fs/
>
>Sorry Karthik for posting this para here. It is not in connection with
>your Q but I remember having seen Annu Kapoor, in one of his
>"Antakshari' programmes, referring this song to OPN as MD.
>Surprisingly for me, OPN sitting in front, rose and waved his hands.
>(In acknowledgement?)as I was also sure that it was Ravi. Can any one
>throw any light on this?
>
>PDP
I always take the info. passed out by these so called "experts" with a pinch of
salt, especazilly on the porgrams on the Indian dish network channels. For
example, in the Star Geet Mala program, they very frequently air a song from
the old Nadiya Ke Paar, and have been crediting Ravindra Jain as the music
director (which he was for the early 1980's film of the same name).
Corrections are not made even after the errors are pointed out to the channels.
Here's another example from a program aired just last week - the hostess was
referring to the background to the Kala Bazar song "khoya khoya chaand". And
what she said was that this story goes back to 1960; S.D. Burman wanted to
record the song but the song had not yet been written; then one evening
Shailendra and Pancham-da (yes, she mentioned Pancham, but that doesnot mean
anything) went out to a beach around sunset time, and that's when Shailendra
came up with the words for "khoya khoya chaand"; and ultimately the song was
recorded. On hearing this, the first thing that came to my mind was that Kala
Bazar was an early Feb. 1960 release! How can it be that a song was not yet
even written/recorded, let alone picturized and then all the post-production
work done on the film and the film released by February.
The one thing she forgot to double check was the censor certificate date for
the film, which I later checked out as Feb. 11, 1960 in the Geet Kosh.
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Ket...@att.net
says...
>Here's another example from a program aired just last week - the hostess was
>referring to the background to the Kala Bazar song "khoya khoya chaand". And
>what she said was that this story goes back to 1960; S.D. Burman wanted to
>record the song but the song had not yet been written; then one evening
>Shailendra and Pancham-da (yes, she mentioned Pancham, but that doesnot mean
>anything) went out to a beach around sunset time, and that's when Shailendra
>came up with the words for "khoya khoya chaand"; and ultimately the song was
>recorded. On hearing this, the first thing that came to my mind was that Kala
>Bazar was an early Feb. 1960 release! How can it be that a song was not yet
>even written/recorded, let alone picturized and then all the post-production
>work done on the film and the film released by February.
>
>The one thing she forgot to double check was the censor certificate date for
>the film, which I later checked out as Feb. 11, 1960 in the Geet Kosh.
It is possible Satishji, with a little use of the imagination. Let's assume that
SDB already had the tune ready and Dev the situation ready too. Now we come to
the New Year'e eve party at Juhu Beach wherein one finds Shailendra and RD
walking around at sunset. After a particularly raunchy booze filled party they
both pass out on the beach. Sometime later Shailendra wakes up with a hangover.
The first thing he sees is the moon. That inspires him to write "khoya khoya
chand, khula aasmaan". Then suddenly he realizes he has a throbbing headache
from the hangover, wakes up RD to yell "tum ko bhi kaise neend aayegi". Back
they rush to his house, write the song, wake up SDB who immediately puts it to
tune. He calls Rafi over the phone to see if his voice is ok for recording.
Hearing Rafi's voice SDB once again wishes he had Kishore to sing, but chokes
back his feelings and mournfully tells Rafi, "ok show up at the studio at noon
and please sing in sur and do the best you can. Try not to bray". Rafi responds
"Hee-haw, er I mean ok Burman-da". Being the fantastic MD that SDB is and the
great assistant he has in RDB they have the tune, rhythms, arrangements all
worked out in advance and even the rehearsals done with the musicians. All that
remains is for Rafi to er...sing. He gets it right on the 8th take but it is
already Jan 3 by now. Dev Anand in the meantime is hurriedly organizing the
shooting of the song. As soon as he gets the tape, he decides that this is way
too complicated for his acting skills, so let me just do what comes naturally to
me--viz, swing my arms like a sweeper on one of Bombay's streets swinging his
broom. No time for showing love/emotion etc. Let's not even have Waheeda in the
shots. He gets it right in the first take, rushes to the editing room, wherein
Vijay Anand does the snip job and by Jan 5th we have the song ready. See, it's
simple isn't it?
:)
Ketan
SKalra902
It reminds me of a Kishore Kumar song in which he says "Nothing is impossible".
By that token, transporting the Ooty outdoors to the streets of Bombay too is
not imppossible, let alone all the other scenarios described by you. :-)
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
> Hearing Rafi's voice SDB once again wishes he had Kishore to sing, but chokes
> back his feelings and mournfully tells Rafi, "ok show up at the studio at noon
> and please sing in sur and do the best you can. Try not to bray". Rafi responds
> "Hee-haw, er I mean ok Burman-da". Being the fantastic MD that SDB is and the
> great assistant he has in RDB they have the tune, rhythms, arrangements all
> worked out in advance and even the rehearsals done with the musicians. All that
> remains is for Rafi to er...sing. He gets it right on the 8th take but it is
> already Jan 3 by now. Dev Anand in the meantime is hurriedly organizing the
> shooting of the song. As soon as he gets the tape, he decides that this is way
> too complicated for his acting skills, so let me just do what comes naturally to
> me--viz, swing my arms like a sweeper on one of Bombay's streets swinging his
> broom. No time for showing love/emotion etc. Let's not even have Waheeda in the
> shots. He gets it right in the first take, rushes to the editing room, wherein
> Vijay Anand does the snip job and by Jan 5th we have the song ready. See, it's
> simple isn't it?
The untold story - as the shooting began, Dev actually saw Kishore
coming down the street headed his way trying to sing the song
himself...he began frantically waving his hands trying to tell KK to
get lost. Fortunately it worked!
:-)
Ketan, how many digs do you expect to go unanswered?
Sanjeev
Ket...@att.net
says...
>It reminds me of a Kishore Kumar song in which he says "Nothing is impossible".
> By that token, transporting the Ooty outdoors to the streets of Bombay too is
>not imppossible, let alone all the other scenarios described by you. :-)
On a serious note : It is still possible. If all of the
production/post-production work on the movie was already finished, and only this
one song had to be added, I don't see why it cannot be done in 41 days. Entire
movies are shot in 30-50 days too so why not just one song.
Dev Anand is a person who seems to be a good producer and a person who can
organize a shoot quickly. This is borne out by the number of Navketan films that
came out between 1950-1970 as opposed to say films under the RK banner. IIRC
between 1958 and 1963, Navketan had 4-5 movies(Nau do Gyarah, Kala Pani, Kala
Bazaar, Hum Dono and Tere Ghar ke Samne) as opposed to a "Jis Desh main ganga
behti hai" by RK. And personally for me all the 5 Navketan movies were better
than the one RK movie.
One wishes Dev Anand would spend more years in one making one movie today,
making the kinds of movies he once did.
Ketan
Balaji A.S. Murthy
>
>In article <20020108142544...@mb-fj.aol.com>, skal...@aol.com
>says...
>
>>It reminds me of a Kishore Kumar song in which he says "Nothing is impossible".
>> By that token, transporting the Ooty outdoors to the streets of Bombay too is
>>not imppossible, let alone all the other scenarios described by you. :-)
>
>On a serious note : It is still possible. If all of the
>production/post-production work on the movie was already finished, and only this
>one song had to be added, I don't see why it cannot be done in 41 days. Entire
>movies are shot in 30-50 days too so why not just one song.
Actually, isn't what Ketan suggests happened to Boot Polish? AFAIK, the film
was originally slated to be songless, but just before the release RK developed
cold feet and then the songs were hurried put together. The whole process of
comosing the songs, shooting them and integrating them with the film shouldn't
have taken more than a few quick weeks.
- Balaji
Ket...@att.net
says...
>The untold story - as the shooting began, Dev actually saw Kishore
>coming down the street headed his way trying to sing the song
>himself...he began frantically waving his hands trying to tell KK to
>get lost. Fortunately it worked!
Good one! :)
>Ketan, how many digs do you expect to go unanswered?
I don't know but digging for something called "Rafi's voice" is a futile task,
IMHO. I feel my archaelogical career in this regard--much like Rafi's
voice--lies in ruins. :)
Ketan
SKalra902
>In article <20020108142544...@mb-fj.aol.com>, skal...@aol.com
>says...
>
>>It reminds me of a Kishore Kumar song in which he says "Nothing is
>impossible".
>> By that token, transporting the Ooty outdoors to the streets of Bombay too
>is
>>not imppossible, let alone all the other scenarios described by you. :-)
>
>On a serious note : It is still possible. If all of the
>production/post-production work on the movie was already finished, and only
>this
>one song had to be added, I don't see why it cannot be done in 41 days.
>Entire
>movies are shot in 30-50 days too so why not just one song.
Possible, yes. Probable, no. Let us not forget that though Kala Bazar was
produced by Dev Anand under the Navketan banner, it was directed by Vijay
Anand, who carried the reputation of working with full scripts long before it
came into vogue (it also reminds me of the recent film Bollywood Calling *ing
Om Puri, with an excellent spoof on the 'scriptwriting' in Hindi films). Add
to that the fact that it was not only this song, but a lot of other scenes
picturized in Ooty, which I would venture to guess that they were shot there
all in one going, accordidng to the script/screenplay, rather than going back
to shoot this one song.
>
>Dev Anand is a person who seems to be a good producer and a person who can
>organize a shoot quickly. This is borne out by the number of Navketan films
>that
>came out between 1950-1970 as opposed to say films under the RK banner. IIRC
>between 1958 and 1963, Navketan had 4-5 movies(Nau do Gyarah, Kala Pani, Kala
>Bazaar, Hum Dono and Tere Ghar ke Samne) as opposed to a "Jis Desh main ganga
>behti hai" by RK. And personally for me all the 5 Navketan movies were better
>than the one RK movie.
That is pretty good, except Nau Do Gyarah, which was in 1957. But the average
still remains one film every other year, roughly 1-1/2 years apart from 1958 to
1963. But let us also note that those were the days of very strict raw film
quotas, lab processing abroad (mostly), etc., etc. It has been usual,
actually, for the songs to be written, composed, and recorded long before their
shoots. The Anari (1959) songs were reocrded in 1957, for example, and more
recently, most of the Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham songs were recorded in the year
2000. So we can safely say that the practice has continued, of course there
would be some exceptions here and there.
The 'khoya khoya chaand' song itself, with its unusual tune, especially for the
stanzas, would sort of preclude the tune being ready before the lyrics. To me,
it appears to be of the variety of the tune being composed after the lyrics
were penned. In that case, all the orchestra being ready, rehearsals
completed, recording studio booked, the song recorded, shooting completed,
etc., etc., within the matter of a few days seems a little out of order to me.
However, as I said in the beginning,"Nothing is Impossible", at least in Hindi
films. :-)
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Abhay Phadnis
news:20020108102300...@mb-cl.aol.com...
(snip)
>
> Here's another example from a program aired just last week - the hostess
was
> referring to the background to the Kala Bazar song "khoya khoya chaand".
And
> what she said was that this story goes back to 1960; S.D. Burman wanted to
> record the song but the song had not yet been written; then one evening
> Shailendra and Pancham-da (yes, she mentioned Pancham, but that doesnot
mean
> anything) went out to a beach around sunset time, and that's when
Shailendra
> came up with the words for "khoya khoya chaand"; and ultimately the song
was
> recorded. On hearing this, the first thing that came to my mind was that
Kala
> Bazar was an early Feb. 1960 release! How can it be that a song was not
yet
> even written/recorded, let alone picturized and then all the
post-production
> work done on the film and the film released by February.
>
> The one thing she forgot to double check was the censor certificate date
for
> the film, which I later checked out as Feb. 11, 1960 in the Geet Kosh.
Is it really such a sin to miss by a year the date of a 40-year old
incident? If she had messed up the date of release of the film, I could have
understood your ire. But if the date was mentioned in passing in talking
about the incident quoted, why take it so seriously?!
Warm regards,
Abhay
Anant Rege
<Ket...@att.net> wrote in message news:a1g0k...@drn.newsguy.com...
> >Ketan, how many digs do you expect to go unanswered?
>
> I don't know but digging for something called "Rafi's voice" is a futile
task,
> IMHO.
It is. Rafi's voice is up there somewhere. (Little bit below Mahendra
Kapoor's). You have been looking for it at the wrong places all these years.
If you keep on digging, only things you will find is skeletons, I mean
recordings of western music, which were in RDB's cupboard once. :-)
Anant
SKalra902
>
>Is it really such a sin to miss by a year the date of a 40-year old
>incident? If she had messed up the date of release of the film, I could have
>understood your ire. But if the date was mentioned in passing in talking
>about the incident quoted, why take it so seriously?!
>
>Warm regards,
>Abhay
It is the "taking such information with a pinch of salt" and the anchors' lack
of attention to detail and accuracy that was the starting point of this
discussion. And since a majority of the listeners/viewers of the program would
simply "trust" that bit of information being "absolutely correct" since coming
from a "celebrity on a TV show", it will gain widespread acceptance. But does
that make it accurate?
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
surjit singh
Grown-ups know these things. But, you know there are "kids" who take
everything these announcers, correspondents, magazine writers etc. say
seriously. It is expected that they be as accurate as humanly
possible. If they are not sure, they can easliy say, I may be off by a
year or so, but I swear I heard this story from so-and-so. That will
help a lot.
Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(atic), period.
>
> Warm regards,
> Abhay
Satish Kalra
> In article <a1fql...@drn.newsguy.com>, Ket...@att.net says...
> >
> >In article <20020108142544...@mb-fj.aol.com>, skal...@aol.com
> >says...
> >
> >>It reminds me of a Kishore Kumar song in which he says "Nothing is impossible".
> >> By that token, transporting the Ooty outdoors to the streets of Bombay too is
> >>not imppossible, let alone all the other scenarios described by you. :-)
> >
> >On a serious note : It is still possible. If all of the
> >production/post-production work on the movie was already finished, and only this
> >one song had to be added, I don't see why it cannot be done in 41 days. Entire
> >movies are shot in 30-50 days too so why not just one song.
>
> Actually, isn't what Ketan suggests happened to Boot Polish? AFAIK, the film
> was originally slated to be songless, but just before the release RK developed
> cold feet and then the songs were hurried put together. The whole process of
> comosing the songs, shooting them and integrating them with the film shouldn't
> have taken more than a few quick weeks.
>
> - Balaji
I didn't see many posts on RMIM on my AOL for the last couple of days.
I had to go thru the postings thru Google, and I saw this one re.
Boot Polish. I think I may have a comment on this one.
Initially, Raj Kpoor may have planned Boot Polish to be a songless
film. However, as was usual with him, he had a subject in mind long
before starting his films. The box office failure of Aah (1953) may
have made him change his mind re songs in the film, probably at the
insistence of the distributors, or whatever. But that would have been
much before the release of the film in the spring of 1954. The censor
certificate of the film is dated Dec. 31, 1953. If any songs were
added just before the release of the film, the film would have had to
obtain a new censor certificate. Also, the first two lines of the
song "Thehar zaraa O jaanewaale.." were even in Aawaaraa (1951),
alluding to his future intentions of using such a song in a
forthcoming film. Moreover, most of the songs in Boot Polish push the
film forward, which is usually not the case if songs are added just
for the sake of having them. The film was directed by Prakash Arora,
according ot the credits. However, it may have been (ghost) directed
by Raj Kapoor himself, as interpreted from "...Shaken probably by the
fate of Aah at the box office, Raj Kapoor reshot large chunks of this
film and did not release it iuntil he himself was satisfied" (quoted
from 'Raj Kapoor - The Fabulous Showman', an intimate biography by
Bunny Reuben).
As the songs blend so well in the film, and push the story forward, it
would seem unlikely that they were hurriedly put together and added
just before the release of the film.
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
