the trouble with A R Rahman
ramesh
-
I completely agree with this. ARR songs are infact
monotonous. I should say he is running out of tunes.
His experiments with young voices is a welcome idea for
the film music. this I should say one of his plus points.
what he lacks is the depth of music which should be attributed
to a particular song based on the lyrics and situation. whereas
Illiaraja had the taste for the depth.
he should start using less electronic insturments for
atleast some songs which demand authentic natural music
instruments. This brings many a times artificial touch to
other wise very well composed songs.
the comming generations of Music lovers may never
hear about ARR - if he continues like this
RAMSES
r_kr...@hotmail.com
In article <33737F2E...@raleigh.ibm.com>, Ikram says...
>Lemme first say that you've complete freedom to "dislike" ARR.
>I am not saying that you *need* to like ARR, just because I
>think he is the best or some such thing....
Thanks for your generous permission.
>Let's take (b) first. And I will ask you to point out
>the similarities, if you will, between
>'Viduthaalai', 'Narumugaye' and 'Hello Mr. Edirkatchchi'.
>And for your ease of use, I have chosen the songs from the same
>movie 'Iruvar'. And to take care of the 'Of late' clause, it is
>his second-last release... his latest being 'Minsara Kanavu'.
I am sorry. I should have clarified that I have not heard the songs of
Iruvar, Mr Romoe as yet.
The recent films of ARR I have heard is Kadal Desham
(DDK),Indian,Sapney(MK).
Coming to Kadal Desham I find all the songs reminds of some other songs.
The starting line of College ke Sathi reminds of "katareeka " (Duet). Also
Hariharan portion of College ke Sathi reminds of "tu he re" (Bombay).
O meri jaan initial lines is similar to the saxophone piece of music in
the song "en kadala" (duet). Also the interludes of o meri jaan is very
similar to UnniK song of Kadalan. Jaa re Jaa is a good song.
On the whole a DDK is a disappointment.
Coming to Sapney I didn't like any of the song and I think it is simply
a rehash of some old songs. I will post it later.
>And lemme ask you, whether you consider there are "exceptions",
>if you will, to clause 'a'? Also, is it "bad" to use the
>orchestra/beats... Quite a few of our Hindi songs use tabla...
>So, are 'beats' bad?? :) And tho' I confess to liking orchestra
>based compositions and being slightly biased towards 'em, what
>exactly is wrong with using instruments?? :) :)
There is nothing wrong in using orchestra as long as tunes are good. The
trouble with ARR is that while the tune is insipid his orchestra is
excellent which one can enjoy probably a couple of times but not more.
Of course in songs like "anjali anjali" , "marzhai poove" he did compose
excellent tunes but such songs are very rare.
>Bombay Jayshri is a bad singer?? UnniK is bad??
I think you are joking when you say UnniK as being introduced by ARR. UK
was already a established classical singer. The kind of singers I am
referring to are:-
Suresh Peters
Anumpa
Caroline
ARR himself
K Kay
MinMini
Shubha (who murdered the song "marzhai poova".)
(can some one else add to this irritating list)
He justfies that untrained new singers add naturality to his songs but IMO
they are pathetic. Another irritating singer is that kid who has sung in
songs like (like chikpuk raile, "thiruda thiruda" ).
Take his high pitched notes. In film after film there is at least one
song where the singer will sing in ARR trademark high pitch. Lemme give
you some examples.
(1) Title song of Roja - when SPB screams ROOOJA.
(2) Anjali Anjali - Duet (end of iterludes)
(3) Tanha Tanha - Rangeela - (start of interludes)
(4) O meri jaan - DDK - initial lines
(5) Tu hi re - Bombay - interludes
I find high pitch notes very monotnous.
Also his soft songs sung by Hariharan sounds same. I don't know whether
it is Hariharan's fault or not.
The biggest trouble with ARR is that his lack of tunes and that's why he
sound so monotonous. Another point against him is that his songs somehow
fade from memory after some time. I don't know how many people today
would like to listen to songs of "kadalan","bombay","hindustani","love
birds","rangeela","super police" , "gang master" etc etc.
Do you think the way people discuss about old music (50's , 60's , 70's)
today they will talk about ARR's music some 20 years later. Heck I doubt
it even after 10 years. Ilayaraja's best songs are discussed even after
15-20 years. Same with RDB. I don't have to comment on legends like
SDB,MM,Naushad etc. You know very well about their music.
ARR's immense popularity can't be used as a yardstick for his greatness.
May I remind you of 80's when LP's rank mediocre songs use to top the
charts. For example songs of "pyaar juhkta nahin" , "meri jung" , "karma"
, "raam lakhan" , "teezab" and many others. IMO they were as popular as
ARR songs of today are. Do people talk about their songs today. Will
today people buy any audios of these films. I doubt very much.
In early 90's , Nadeem Shravan,Anand Milind were very popular ( they still
are). But how many of us would like to listen to songs of "saajan","beta"
though they were extremely popular. Mast Mast was a big hit some 3 years
back,does anybody talk about that today.
In nutshell I find ARR's music something like English pop songs which
stays on the top-of-charts for some time and then fads away , probably
never to be talked about again. The reason for that is that Rahman does
not seem to have a solid base in classical music and his fusion music
gimmick is not going to last long.
PS: (1) I am 1963 born, whereas I guess you are mid 1970's born. Our
musical preference and taste is bound to differ. (2) I am not a cynic
who follows this rule : "any song after 1-Jan-1980 is crap".If some new
songs are good I like it as in "Lekin" (1991) and "1942 ALS" (1994).
(3) I should stop writing anti Rahman posts as I am also sounding
monotonous like Rahman's songs.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
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Bunty
Hi Ravi,
R_>Coming to Kadal Desham I find all the songs reminds of some other songs.
R_>The starting line of College ke Sathi reminds of "katareeka " (Duet). Also
R_>Hariharan portion of College ke Sathi reminds of "tu he re" (Bombay).
R_>O meri jaan initial lines is similar to the saxophone piece of music in
R_>the song "en kadala" (duet). Also the interludes of o meri jaan is very
R_>similar to UnniK song of Kadalan. Jaa re Jaa is a good song.
R_>On the whole a DDK is a disappointment.
I will agree its a dissapointment, when looked at the other albums he has
composed in the past. However, what you are saying is that 5-10 seconds of
a song are remind you of another song he has composed. How can you
ignore the fact that the WHOLE song is a new one, and not
"cut-and-pasted" from a previous number. You can get away with your
examples, but they are not significant, IMHO. Because a song that has
some small parts that "reminds" you of another song, is alot diffrnet
than the whole song basically copied or even sounding the same in
rythym, etc. If you can provide the info, it will be worth some
discussion:) BTW, I feel at times he does copy his own music, but
usually its not an issue.
R_>Coming to Sapney I didn't like any of the song and I think it is simply
R_>a rehash of some old songs. I will post it later.
How is "Ek Bagiya Mein" or "Door Na Ja Mujh Se" or even "Strawberry
Aankhen" recycled?
R_>There is nothing wrong in using orchestra as long as tunes are good. The
R_>trouble with ARR is that while the tune is insipid his orchestra is
R_>excellent which one can enjoy probably a couple of times but not more.
R_>Of course in songs like "anjali anjali" , "marzhai poove" he did compose
R_>excellent tunes but such songs are very rare.
I think its not that rare; some of the time he has given more importance
to "beats" and some times to orchestra. And the "beats" doesn't always
mean a teenage-targeted song. EX: "Kehna Hi Kya" from Bombay. Almost
all was synthesiser and chorus, and it sounded awesome. For orchestra,
look at the BG music he has done. Just watch some of the movies, and
you will see like. Again, Bombay is a fantastic example. To me that
shows versitatly. However look at "Strawberry Aankhen"; it is almost
all orchestra. Heck look at Thurida Thurida..the song "Putham Pudhu
Boomi" has amazing orchestra while having the "beat". But I forgot
that was one of his earlier albums, so that doesn't count:-) Look, I
will agree that some times a song has a overdose of something, but that
is more rare than anything else.
R_>>Bombay Jayshri is a bad singer?? UnniK is bad??
R_>I think you are joking when you say UnniK as being introduced by ARR. UK
R_>was already a established classical singer. The kind of singers I am
R_>referring to are:-
Ikram never said that. ARR uses him in songs, he never "inroduced" him.
And he uses them in the RIGHT way most of the time. The song in Iruvar
were Bombay J. and UnniK sang, is a semi-classical one. You will never
hear either of them in a "Urivishi":) I am saying this because almost
all the MDs like A-M and Anu keep using the same singers for the
diffrent type of songs...
While I can't arugue who is a bad/good singer...
R_>MinMini
Tell me that "Chotse Se Asha" from Roja sounded bad. To me her voice
was perfect for the song, than say a better singer like Chitra would
have harmed it. It was a soft number, and Chitra voice is a little too
high for that.
R_>He justfies that untrained new singers add naturality to his songs but IMO
R_>they are pathetic. Another irritating singer is that kid who has sung in
R_>songs like (like chikpuk raile, "thiruda thiruda" ).
It took over 40 "untrained" singers to sing, "Raasati" from TT.
R_>I find high pitch notes very monotnous.
Thats funnee...notes are monotnous, not high pictched ones unless the
are the same. Look at Rajesh Roshan..he has the trademark of extemenly
high pitched orchestra. You seem to have listened to alot of the songs
and made a loose comparsions b/w them. However listen to the whole song
and you shall see the song is basically rooted in originality. A word
that, it seems, doesn't exist in India. Just say, Duet had the same Sax
notes in "Naan Poodum Sangam" and the Title Sax mealody.
R_>Also his soft songs sung by Hariharan sounds same. I don't know whether
R_>it is Hariharan's fault or not.
Come on...thats s bit of a strech:-)
R_>fade from memory after some time. I don't know how many people today
R_>would like to listen to songs of "kadalan","bombay","hindustani","love
R_>birds","rangeela","super police" , "gang master" etc etc.
Not many. But in order for that to happen it has to ba a classic. Even
"Lekin" which I loved to death, is somewhat forgotten.
R_>Do you think the way people discuss about old music (50's , 60's , 70's)
R_>today they will talk about ARR's music some 20 years later. Heck I doubt
R_>it even after 10 years. Ilayaraja's best songs are discussed even after
R_>15-20 years. Same with RDB. I don't have to comment on legends like
R_>SDB,MM,Naushad etc. You know very well about their music.
I can't awnser that fact, but I can say that not all of the people you
mentioned had an album that people talk about today. Today times have
changed..all songs are remixed from old to new. A-M, AnuM, N-S are the
present day SDB, RDB, etc. They are the main MD's of India. ARR is a
south MD who has just recently entered the Hindi market. Anyway, what
you are saying is that all of his albums like "kadalan" are ment to be
forgotten. Its like saying all of RDB's albums are classics. It is
just common sense that the better albums are appreciated. From RDB to
Duet.
R_>ARR's immense popularity can't be used as a yardstick for his greatness.
Not only the public, but almost everyone from NFAK to Vishal (read the
newest FF) to VM Bhatt praise him and consider him one of the best
MUSICANS not MD of India.
R_>, "raam lakhan" , "teezab" and many others. IMO they were as popular as
R_>ARR songs of today are. Do people talk about their songs today. Will
Yes:-) Eek Dho Teen is still popular:) But I get your point.
R_>today people buy any audios of these films. I doubt very much.
Yes (in a way). HMV still is producing those albums, like Raam Lakhan.
We recently bought that and Meri Jung.
R_>though they were extremely popular. Mast Mast was a big hit some 3 years
R_>back,does anybody talk about that today.
So what you are saying is that none of the song in recent memory are
going to have any life?
R_>In nutshell I find ARR's music something like English pop songs which
R_>stays on the top-of-charts for some time and then fads away , probably
R_>never to be talked about again. The reason for that is that Rahman does
I disagree..
R_>not seem to have a solid base in classical music and his fusion music
R_>gimmick is not going to last long.
Come on! He is a student of classical music. His guru (forgot his
name...Ikram help me) and he study classical music. He is an on going
student of classical Hindi music. In interviews he says that he wants
to start a label for devoutional music not film music.
R_>musical preference and taste is bound to differ. (2) I am not a cynic
Yes. As you know, I was born in LATE 70's and still listen to the
classics. I love old songs sometimes more than the new ones.
R_>songs are good I like it as in "Lekin" (1991) and "1942 ALS" (1994).
R_>(3) I should stop writing anti Rahman posts as I am also sounding
R_>monotonous like Rahman's songs.
You didn't sound monotonous to me:-)
A very tired...
bunty
Raj Narayanaswamy
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I remember people discussing similarly when Ilayaraja first came to the
music world. At that time the discussion was about lyrics. (Old songs
had meaning full lyrics and the 'new' songs had bad lyrics!).
I think Indian music likes stablity. Every time anyone new or different
comes along, it is attacked on some grounds. This may be the world's
attitude in every aspect. But it it very prominent in Indian
movie/music. I like SPB's voice. But to hear him song after song after
song for 20 years makes one wonder if there is a 'systamatic' method to
suppress talent. Why is that Lata mageshkar (sp?) ruled for 25 years?
Can't we produce someone who is different (as oppose to better)?
I think music should be celebrated for its varity and differences and
not be compared with. If some of them turns out to be 'classic' great.
If not, who cares! BTW, not all of SDB, MM, Naushad, Ilayaraja or RDB's
are considered 'classic' or good. I bet that for every good one, we can
find 10 "one time popular song but now forgotten" song.
To give credit to ARR, he has broken the cycle of one or two singers
'controlling' the industry. Offcourse now he will 'rule' for another 20
years before someone else come along. And at that time we all will be
singing the praise of ARR and pointing out his gems.
Regards
Raj
PS: It looks that discussions about music splits along ago line. So for
the record, I was born in 1965.
--
Raj Narayanaswamy
Replicon Inc.
#908, 840 - 7th Avenue S.W
Calgary, Alberta, T2P-3G2.
Canada.
Tel: +1/(403)-262-6519
Fax:+1/(403)-266-4855
r...@replicon.com
http://www.replicon.com
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Kalyan
In article <863279...@www.cabarrus.k12.nc.us>, bu...@cabarrus.k12.nc.us says...
>
> RR's immense popularity can't be used as a yardstick for his greatness.
>
>Not only the public, but almost everyone from NFAK to Vishal (read the
>newest FF) to VM Bhatt praise him and consider him one of the best
>MUSICANS not MD of India.
I remember reading a Nadeem-Shravan interview in which they were asked
about ARR. Nadeem said ARR's orchestra is good but his tunes and everything
else are bad (not his words). He went on to say that ARR should work for
them as the sound-recordist! I don't know if that can be taken as praise :)
Kalyan
Pankaj Kakkar
> >
> >Not only the public, but almost everyone from NFAK to Vishal (read the
> >newest FF) to VM Bhatt praise him and consider him one of the best
> >MUSICANS not MD of India.
>
> about ARR. Nadeem said ARR's orchestra is good but his tunes and everything
> else are bad (not his words). He went on to say that ARR should work for
> them as the sound-recordist! I don't know if that can be taken as praise :)
>
> Kalyan
Hmmm..., now is this the same interview in which they claimed that ARR's
music was like daal bhaat, which feels good to people after an overdose
of tandoori chicken (read : NS's music)!
--
Pankaj Kakkar http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~pankaj
--------------------------------------------------------
Office: Home:
PhD Student 2211 Walnut St
CIS Dept., Apt No 7
School of Engineering and Applied Sciences Philadelphia
University of Pennsylvania, PA 19104 PA 19103
USA. USA
(215) 898 8116 (215) 564 5298
English has no future. Believe me.
(If that disturbs you, talk to me :-))(Hint:It has to do with 'tense'!)
Ikram Ahmed Khan
> >
> >Not only the public, but almost everyone from NFAK to Vishal (read the
> >newest FF) to VM Bhatt praise him and consider him one of the best
> >MUSICANS not MD of India.
>
> about ARR. Nadeem said ARR's orchestra is good but his tunes and everything
> else are bad (not his words). He went on to say that ARR should work for
> them as the sound-recordist! I don't know if that can be taken as praise :)
No... :) Testimonials from NS??!! Heck, no!! :) :)
Actually let's take NFAK - his interview is there on Redif
Praises ARR ... then mars the whole thing by praising NS!!!
But, I'll agree with NFAK if he says that they have come up with one
or two (ok, ok, let's not be finicky... I'll even make it three :) )
good toones. :) :)
Then let's take Sarod player Amjad Ali Khan.... An rmimer had
posted info on some of his likes afa songs were concerned... In that
interview, he also had praised ARR.
Vishal's interview is still on the Filmfare site. Besides being a good
"Sound Recordist" {not in these words exactly :)}, he thinks him to
be "an excellent composer" {His exact words!! :)}
VMBhatt, thinks him to be excellent. Again Redif for more....
SPB in one of his interviews praised Rahman to the skies.... Don't
remember which interview... but read it on the net....
AshaB in her interview went ga-ga over him. Her Filmfare interview
after the FF award...
Anu Malik uses ARR as a testimonial - ARR supposedly told him that
'churaa ke dil meraa, goriya chali' was a nice song.... And since
ARR {that pinnacle of the music composing art form :) :)} praised him,
he was pleased as punch, and generally behaving like a happy child...
{Btw, I think that even AnuM has a few good toones.... :)}
His detractors include NS, and that Nahata dude... this when Hindustani
wasn't selling like hot cakes... I dunno whether anybody went back to
him when the audio sales picked up....
Naushad mentioned that he has heard that ARR is changing the face of
Indian music, but he himself hasn't heard him much....
OPN too mentioned his name in his interview....
To date, I haven't heard any comment from Ilaiyaraja. He might have
made them.... But *I* haven't heard 'em....
Please feel free to add more, folks.....
Later,
Ikram.
Ravi Krishna
In article <3379D726...@raleigh.ibm.com>, Ikram says...
>No... :) Testimonials from NS??!! Heck, no!! :) :)
>But, I'll agree with NFAK if he says that they have come up with one
>or two (ok, ok, let's not be finicky... I'll even make it three :) )
>good toones. :) :)
Let's not be too harsh to NS. They *HAVE* come up with quite a few good
tunes.
>Then let's take Sarod player Amjad Ali Khan.... An rmimer had
>posted info on some of his likes afa songs were concerned... In that
>interview, he also had praised ARR.
Must have said after listening to "rukmani,rukmani".
>Vishal's interview is still on the Filmfare site. Besides being a good
>"Sound Recordist" {not in these words exactly :)}, he thinks him to
>be "an excellent composer" {His exact words!! :)}
>VMBhatt, thinks him to be excellent. Again Redif for more....
Who is VMBHatt. Are you referring to Vanraj Bhatia. Yes he has praised ARR's
orchestra and background music. I read that in Screen Magazine in 1994.
>SPB in one of his interviews praised Rahman to the skies.... Don't
>remember which interview... but read it on the net....
That's true. But SPB considers M S Vishwanathan as the greatest MD he has
ever worked. No mention about Ilayaraja. That's funny because if anyone
looks into SPB's all time popular songs , more than 80% of it will be from
Ilayaraja.
>His detractors include NS, and that Nahata dude... this when Hindustani
>wasn't selling like hot cakes... I dunno whether anybody went back to
>him when the audio sales picked up....
I thought Raja Hindustani sold lot more than Hindustani.
>Naushad mentioned that he has heard that ARR is changing the face of
>Indian music, but he himself hasn't heard him much....
Good. If he had listened to "no problem" he would turn his face away from
indian music forever.
>OPN too mentioned his name in his interview....
>
>To date, I haven't heard any comment from Ilaiyaraja. He might have
>made them.... But *I* haven't heard 'em....
Here is the comment from Ilaiyaraja.
"his music is of 90's, modern but not cacophony,it is computerised but not
noise. He has given popular western songs but has not deviated too much from
carnatic music".
Not long ago,eminent music personality from L Shankar,L Subramanian,Hari Prasad
Chaurasia,Zubin Mehta to film MDs like Naushad,R D Burman were full praise
for Ilayaraja.
Surendra
In article , Ikram quotes praises for ARR...
>
>
>Then let's take Sarod player Amjad Ali Khan....
>
>
>VMBhatt, thinks him to be excellent. Again Redif for more....
>
>
>AshaB in her in......
>
>Anu Malik uses...
>
>.....and more ..............
>To date, I haven't heard any comment from Ilaiyaraja. He might have
>made them.... But *I* haven't heard 'em....
>
>
>
electronic sound tinkering, and forget that main soul of the song should be the melody and not a "cool sound".
"Janta" fancies the "killer sounds" only for a while and then they forget it.
Remember the "space drum" sound in "Aap jaisa koi mere zindagi me aye to ("baap" ban jaye..:-)
Or the Bass sweep in the beginning of "Dum Maro Dum". That brings an interesting point that though RD was the
first one to bring Synth sounds to the Bollywood tracks, but his songs are remembered for their melodious aspect.
The Guitar prelude in "Aja aja mai hoo' pyaar tera" is still a favourite for the guitar players, but so is the song, for the
singers, and the audience. (I am limiting my references to the "cool instrumental" compositions, so no references to
his other far better compositions here).
Initially ARR brought both melody and freshness in his compositions, later on he got tangled in his sound modules.
I am seeing the same fate of Viju Shah. This week I was listening to his (Viju's) work in "Gupt".
It is extremely good in the "sonic range". (It is made in USA). But the songs lack the catchy melody, that he gave
in "Mohra", "Aaar (ya) Paar", "Tere Mere Sapne".
These guys go crazy with their new electronic toys, and end up spending all their time fiddling with them,
"like a kid who got his first gadget".
In this process they forget that the electronic stuff is their to help them create good music and not the vice-versa.
Hope this post is still relevant to this thread :-)
Surendra
[Bhool Chook Leni Deni]
http://members.aol.com/hindimidi
>Later,
>Ikram.
Raj
You are right. ARR's music can easily be identified. He has become
stereo-type to some extent. I think among the new breeds, Jatin-Lalit by
far has been very consistent - JJWS,DDLJ,Khamoshi, etc. have some very
melodious and original tunes Even Khiladi was not too bad.
Are they coming out with any new album ?
Raj'
Selvathurai Jeyadeva
Some people listed some ohter MD,s
but just ask urself other than Illayaraja and Rehman who else is/was original
most of the rest have copied so much.
Raj
Nobody has ever claimed that Illayaraja and ARR are not original. But
ARR's music has become stereotype. All his compositions sound almost
same. What I am talking about is versatility with originality ( to some
extent) e.g. Nadeem Shravan's Ashiqui was refreshingly original as well
as melodious. Jatin lalit's JJWS ( Pehla Nasha esp), DDLJ, Khamoshi were
all very original and melodious.
If ARR wants to retain his ranking in the popularity charts, he must
come up with new tunes.
--Raj
K Vijay Kumar
Selvathurai Jeyadeva wrote:
>
> Some people listed some ohter MD,s
>
> but just ask urself other than Illayaraja and Rehman who else is/was original
>
> most of the rest have copied so much.
There are three composers I can call to mind immediately among the
south-Indian composers. K V Mahadevan, Ilaya Raja and A R Rehman. To use
an analogy..
they are to South-Indian music what Naushad, S D Burman and O P Nayyar
are to Hindi film music. The first was exalted, the second versatile and
the third iconoclastic. Take your pick. I never can decide.
--------------
vijay...@hotmail.com
easi...@sprynet.com
In article <337D05...@hotmail.com>,
No doubt, KVM was one of the top south MDS of all time. BUT I feel, the
list should Be M.S.Viswanathan, Illayaraja, and A.R.Rahman. I read it
somewhere that MS viswanathan never indulged in copying songs, and even
in remaking famous films, he always tried to produce own tunes. Films
like yadhonki ki bharat, hatti mere sathi, aradhana, when remade in tamil
he refused to copy the tunes. Can some one shed light on films being
remade in another language, with complete new tunes and still become as
popular as the original ones. I know there are lot of 60's tamil films
like nengil oru aliyam ( dil ek hi mandir), then nilavu, servar sunduram,
bama vijayam, aduhta vettu peen (padosan), idhya kamalam etc were remade
in hindi. I donno know the exact names of the hindi films, But I think
they should be having some popular songs.
e.hariharan
e.hariharan
easi...@sprynet.com
In article <8632131...@dejanews.com>,
r_kr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
> I am sorry. I should have clarified that I have not heard the songs of
> Iruvar, Mr Romoe as yet.
> The recent films of ARR I have heard is Kadal Desham
> (DDK),Indian,Sapney(MK).
> Coming to Kadal Desham I find all the songs reminds of some other songs.
> The starting line of College ke Sathi reminds of "katareeka " (Duet). Also
> Hariharan portion of College ke Sathi reminds of "tu he re" (Bombay).
> O meri jaan initial lines is similar to the saxophone piece of music in
> the song "en kadala" (duet). Also the interludes of o meri jaan is very
> similar to UnniK song of Kadalan. Jaa re Jaa is a good song.
> On the whole a DDK is a disappointment.
>
I am not denying that ARR songs very much have ARR id. I listened to DDK.
I don't even care, that some portion of the songs remind his older ones.
Every song in this album has surprises and some brillant music. My first
favorite is mustafa, mustafa, just for that mesmerizing beat. Jaa re Jaa
is so good especially the piano notes combined with some beautiful
chorous. College ki sathi is a very wonderful song, the way he controls
this song's pace is so wonderful. I was so wonderfully involved with
these things, I never got a chance to realise that tunes are repetitive,
if at all, they are.
> Coming to Sapney I didn't like any of the song and I think it is simply
> a rehash of some old songs. I will post it later.
>
I disagree except SPB's dhur na jaa. It is fast paced song of milgaye,
milgaye from love birds. I enjoyed both the versions.
>
> >Bombay Jayshri is a bad singer?? UnniK is bad??
>
> I think you are joking when you say UnniK as being introduced by ARR. UK
> was already a established classical singer. The kind of singers I am
> referring to are:-
>
> Suresh Peters
> Anumpa
> Caroline
> ARR himself
> K Kay
> MinMini
> Shubha (who murdered the song "marzhai poova".)
> (can some one else add to this irritating list)
>
> He justfies that untrained new singers add naturality to his songs but IMO
> they are pathetic. Another irritating singer is that kid who has sung in
> songs like (like chikpuk raile, "thiruda thiruda" ).
What is the wrong with using so many singers. He chooses the right
singers for the right songs. I enjoyed hariharan in uyire, uyire as much
as sahul hammed singing rasathi, chitra singing anjali anjali as much as
ila arun singing sulli vetta pogaliye in Mr. Romeo. One of the reasons, I
love ARR's music is his selection of singers. I think he made such a
revolution in Music industry, now especially in tamil, every MD is
following this trend. Gone are the days when any duet/happy songs, call
SPB/janaki ,or call yesudos for any classical/sad songs. Everyone has
different voice and why can't use them when needed?.
>
> The biggest trouble with ARR is that his lack of tunes and that's why he
> sound so monotonous. Another point against him is that his songs somehow
> fade from memory after some time. I don't know how many people today
> would like to listen to songs of "kadalan","bombay","hindustani","love
> birds","rangeela","super police" , "gang master" etc etc.
>
May be, it is because, his songs are listened so repeatedly initially. I
never put back any ARR new music, without listening for months. His music
is so enjoyable.
> Do you think the way people discuss about old music (50's , 60's , 70's)
> today they will talk about ARR's music some 20 years later. Heck I doubt
> it even after 10 years. Ilayaraja's best songs are discussed even after
> 15-20 years. Same with RDB. I don't have to comment on legends like
> SDB,MM,Naushad etc. You know very well about their music.
How many in young generation did now want to listen to so called MD's
songs?. It is very difficult to say which songs will stay, which won't. I
think ARR has more than his share of immortal songs already. ARR has
created a new wave, when tamil music was not getting a good deal from
tired illayraja. I have not seen any one taking over ARR's position so
far, so as of now ARR RULES.
e.hariharan
Ikram Ahmed Khan
Surendra wrote:
> The basic problem with the new-age MDs (ARR , Viju Shah) is that they get to much obsessed with the
> electronic sound tinkering, and forget that main soul of the song should be the melody and not a "cool sound".
Actually in quite a few songs, the "melody" is not limited to the tune
that the singer is singing. At least, I thought so, for quite a few
ARR songs. This, I think, is an interesting conceptual breakthrough
(or just "break", if you think so :) ). So, in a sense, he is
redefining 'melody' to include the whole song with the interludes et
al (this would mean, of course, that it can no longer be called
interludes :) ). I personally, don't wish to criticize him for that.
It is an interesting break(through) for me.
> I am seeing the same fate of Viju Shah. This week I was listening to his (Viju's) work in "Gupt".
> It is extremely good in the "sonic range". (It is made in USA). But the songs lack the catchy melody, that he gave
> in "Mohra", "Aaar (ya) Paar", "Tere Mere Sapne".
It is very "techno" :). Listen to the vocal parts of the
orchestra... all those 'aaaoo' sounds and stuff... Then listen to
ARR's 'Love Birds'. It seems that Viju Shah has access to some of the
same software!! The sounds are *exactly* identical.
>
> These guys go crazy with their new electronic toys, and end up spending all their time fiddling with them,
> "like a kid who got his first gadget".
> In this process they forget that the electronic stuff is their to help them create good music and not the vice-versa.
I tend to agree with you for the "kid" parts. The point for me is
that "kids will be kids". Experience-wise ARR (and VijuS, it seems from
his phoTuus :) ) are quite young. Why curtail experimentation??
Something new and beautiful might result from all this (or it might
not :) ). The only reason that I can think of is that these people
are "molding" Indian Film Music and perhaps some of our tastes into
different things. This is the kinda ethical questions that people
have about RDB's contribution - He did make the western sounds an
integral part of his music. In fact, there might be a direct causal
link to the so-called "noise" which came in the guise of music from
that time on... So, is RDB culpable? Wouldn't SJ and OPN also need
to shoulder some blame, then? What about Naushad using some tunes
which were western in origin ... 'waltz' and such-like? What about
SalilC then? So, was the price that we had to pay for their good stuff
very less, just right or outrageously high? I dunno... Different
people might feel differently....
Later,
Ikram.
ps. RaviK - Pt. Vishwa Mohan Bhatt is a grammy winner and uses the
guitar. He likes to render Indian classical music on his
guitar...
Anil Ubale
Ravi Krishna wrote:
> >Vishal's interview is still on the Filmfare site. Besides being a good
> >"Sound Recordist" {not in these words exactly :)}, he thinks him to
> >be "an excellent composer" {His exact words!! :)}
> >VMBhatt, thinks him to be excellent. Again Redif for more....
>
> Who is VMBHatt. Are you referring to Vanraj Bhatia. Yes he has praised ARR's
> orchestra and background music. I read that in Screen Magazine in 1994.
I guess, VMBhatt refers to VishwaMohan Bhatt. He plays a modified
acoustic guitar which he calls "Mohan Veena", much like the
Hawaiian slide guitar. In 1994 he received the Grammy award for
the Best Album of the year in World music category. The album is
"A meeting by the River" with Ry Cooder.
anil
Anil Ubale
Raj wrote:
>
> Nobody has ever claimed that Illayaraja and ARR are not original. But
> ARR's music has become stereotype. All his compositions sound almost
I dont listen to Tamil music that much. But I was listening to the
tape of "Ningazh Kettwai", (MD: Illayraja, *ing Karthik ..), and
heard the song :
Kanawa karum Vazhake yaagum (pardon my mistakes)
Isnt it straight lift from "Kasme Vaade Pyaar Wafaa .. " from
Upkaar, sung by Manna Dey?
Is this common knowledge?
anil
Dev Mannemela
In article <337D05...@hotmail.com>,
K Vijay Kumar <vijay...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Selvathurai Jeyadeva wrote:
>>
>> Some people listed some ohter MD,s
>>
>> but just ask urself other than Illayaraja and Rehman who else is/was original
>>
>> most of the rest have copied so much.
>Well, I have looked at it this way...
>There are three composers I can call to mind immediately among the
>south-Indian composers. K V Mahadevan, Ilaya Raja and A R Rehman. To use
>an analogy..
>they are to South-Indian music what Naushad, S D Burman and O P Nayyar
>are to Hindi film music. The first was exalted, the second versatile and
>the third iconoclastic. Take your pick. I never can decide.
>--------------
>vijay...@hotmail.com
Add Ramesh Naidu to the above list.
Although he is no where near IR or KVM in terms of prolificity,
he is definitely among the best that the Telugu industry has produced.
dev
--
Dev Mannemela de...@spimageworks.com
Sony Pictures Imageworks 310.840.8143 (O)
Ravi Krishna
In article <3380ED...@kane.ece.ucsb.edu>, Anil says...
Yes, this is right. In his career of over 700 films , Ilayaraja has probably
copied very very few tunes, one was this. I read that Iraja was bit pissed
off with Kalyanji Anandji for lifting his tune for "neel neele ambar pe"
(Kalakaar) and wanted to 'settle scores' with KA.
Very stupid of Iraja of course.
Dev Mannemela
In article <3380EC...@kane.ece.ucsb.edu>,
Anil Ubale <an...@kane.ece.ucsb.edu> wrote:
>Ravi Krishna wrote:
>
>> Who is VMBHatt. Are you referring to Vanraj Bhatia. Yes he has praised ARR's
>> orchestra and background music. I read that in Screen Magazine in 1994.
>
>I guess, VMBhatt refers to VishwaMohan Bhatt. He plays a modified
>acoustic guitar which he calls "Mohan Veena", much like the
>Hawaiian slide guitar. In 1994 he received the Grammy award for
>the Best Album of the year in World music category. The album is
>"A meeting by the River" with Ry Cooder.
>anil
VMBhatt played the acoustic guitar in Rahman's latest album "Iruvar".
Last year, Bhatt also had another crossover CD with I think some Chinese
folk musicians..
easi...@sprynet.com
In article <3380ED...@kane.ece.ucsb.edu>,
Anil Ubale <an...@kane.ece.ucsb.edu> wrote:
>
> Raj wrote:
> >
> > Nobody has ever claimed that Illayaraja and ARR are not original. But
> > ARR's music has become stereotype. All his compositions sound almost
>
> I dont listen to Tamil music that much. But I was listening to the
> tape of "Ningazh Kettwai", (MD: Illayraja, *ing Karthik ..), and
> heard the song :
>
> Kanawa karum Vazhake yaagum (pardon my mistakes)
>
> Isnt it straight lift from "Kasme Vaade Pyaar Wafaa .. " from
> Upkaar, sung by Manna Dey?
> Is this common knowledge?
> anil
you are right, it is straight lift from that song. I could not understand
so far, why raja has done it,though probably it is only one time. I will
be happy if someone asks this to him, just to find out the reason behind.
BTW he did change the song little bit, his use of percussion and
interlude music is good and different from the original, ofcourse yesudos
voice too. Wondering whether raja did steal any other old tamil songs
without hiding it's id?.Is it not pudu mappilakkiu in apporva
sagothargal, is the modified old tune?.
K Vijay Kumar
> So, is RDB culpable? Wouldn't SJ and OPN also need
> to shoulder some blame, then? What about Naushad using some tunes
> which were western in origin ... 'waltz' and such-like? What about
> SalilC then? So, was the price that we had to pay for their good stuff
> very less, just right or outrageously high? I dunno... Different
> people might feel differently....
>
dharti ko aakash pukaare
from mela, said to have been composed just after his wife's death and
containing all the anguish of that event, the opening bars seemed to
sound similar to the overture to Gounod's Faust...
inspired stuff?
> ps. RaviK - Pt. Vishwa Mohan Bhatt is a grammy winner and uses the
> guitar. He likes to render Indian classical music on his
> guitar...
Brijbhushan Kabra has used a guitar much longer for Indian Classical
Music and was one of the three artistes featuring in Shiv-Hari's first
album together - Call of the Valley (circa 1969)
cheers
vijay
-----------------------
vijay...@hotmail.com
Bunty
Hi Ravi,
R_>Yes, this is right. In his career of over 700 films , Ilayaraja has probabl
^^^^^^^^^
He has made THAT many films?? Its more than L-P, even:-) And they have
been around a while, too.
bunty
Kishore Krshna
In article <864242...@www.cabarrus.k12.nc.us>, bu...@cabarrus.k12.nc.us says...
Indeed he has - in the 80s' when more movies were being made, he was the
music director for 98% or more of the movies released. Incidentally, while
he has not plagiarized other MD's songs (with the exception of kanavu
kaanum vaazhkai - can someone confirm that this song was indeed attributed
to Iraja?) he has recycled his own tunes in a handful of instances - chithirai
chevvaanam sirikka kandEn from kaaRRinilE varum geetham (late 70s)
was recycled in sathiyavAn *ing Murali and Gouthami. Also enna samayalO
from unnaal mudiyum thambi and its original in manipoor maamiyaar (again 70s
and this time lyrics for both versions are also by raja). There are a couple more
I recall (from dharma durai into uzhaippaaLi? and a S Jaanaki solo into a number
from a Karthik film number).
--
Kishore Krshna
kis...@mail.utexas.edu
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