4 songs from 'Pakeezah' in one raga?
Abhay Phadnis
singer Dr Anita Sen was playing film songs that she said were "thumri"-
based. The first one was the 'Mughal-e-Azam' song, "mohe panaghaT
pe...". Then she when on to say (in summary), "It is rare to find many
songs in one film based on the same raga, and rarer still for all of
them to have become hits." (My first reaction was "here comes
'Phagun', but I was pleasantly surprised.) She played a medley of four
songs from 'Pakeezah' - "thaa.De rahiyo...", "chalate chalate...",
"inhii.n logo.n ne...", and "chalo diladaar chalo...".
Questions for the ICM experts:
- Are all the four songs based on one raga? I am hard put to find
similarities among them!
- Which raga is this?
- She also introduced the songs as "four thumri-s" from 'Pakeezah'. By
what stretch could one describe "chalate chalate" and "chalo diladaar
chalo" as 'thumri-s'?!
Incidentally, she ended with Manna De's "aayo kahaa.N se ghanashyaam"
from 'Buddha Mil Gaya'. By any stretch, are all six songs based on the
same raga? (The first one is Mishra Gara, isn't it?) I can't see the
similarities, but then neither can my swara-challenged ears see the
similarity in the four songs she said *were* based on one raga! :(
Warm regards,
Abhay
UVR
I am by no means an ICM expert, but I am pretty confident that the
four songs from Pakeezah named above are NOT set to one and the same
raga. And "aayo kahaa.N se ghanashyaam " is mishra khamaj, isn't it?
Indeed, are any two of the six songs mentioned above in the same raga?
-UVR.
AR
"Chalo dildaar chalo" and "inhi logon ne" sound like Pahadi. "Thaade
rahiyon" seems like Maand, but I'm not so sure.
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
Agree, but I figure Maand and Pahaadi have enough in common that it's
not unreasonable to slot all four Pakeezah songs under Pahaadi...right
of course about Mishra Khamaaj and Mishra Gaara for the others.
Sanjeev
Nataraj
wrote:
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But I feel Inhi Logon Ne is more of Yaman or Kalyani in Carnatic. Isnt
it?
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
If you look strictly at the scale, it does map to Yaman/Kalyani, but
nothing about its contours really betrays Yaman/Kalyani (as opposed to
say, another "non-serious" song, "Paan Khaaye Saiyyan Hamaaro").
Sanjeev
UVR
Well, as far as "chalo dildaar chalo" and "inhii.n logo.n ne" go, I
perceive one differene between the two -- it appears that the latter
uses the teevra madhyam liberally, whereas the former restricts itself
to using the shuddha madhyam only.
I am not at all clear about how these raga classifications work in HCM
nor what various colours Pahadi can take, so this may be a stupid
question. If so, don't hesitate to tell me so (but I'll appreciate it
if you'd please answer the question either way).
-UVR.
Archisman Mozumder
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Dear Ravindra-ji,
I agree with you. The liberal use of the teevra madhyam in 'inhi logon
ne' leaves very little of the 'pahadi-feel' of this song.
Of course, I'll await Sanjeev's detailed views on this.
Regards-Archisman.
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
Hardly a stupid question, nor would I consider my take as the final
word. IMO Pahaadi, especially Mishra Pahaadi, need not preclude the
teevra madhyam, especially "en passant" the way it's used in "inhii.n
logo.n ne" (there is never any extended pause on it). A hypothetical
"Shuddh" Pahaadi would be along the lines of SRGPDS"::S"DPGRS, so no
prescription on the Madhyam. I would agree that the Pahaadi element in
"inhii.n logo.n ne" just doesn't jump out at you the same way it does
in some other songs.
Sanjeev