Meera Dev Burman - Travesty of Time?
Ritu
Tripura Govt. is honouring Mrs Burman today in Bombay.
It has been discovered that she was moved to an old age home in Navi
Mumbai by Asha Bhosle 9 months back. While there might be different
versions to the 'Whys' and 'Hows' of the situation, being a fan of
Sachinda her plight has greatly pained me. She really does not deserve
to go through all this tamasha in her autumn years. May God put an end
to her sufferings.
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20070924&fname=SD+Burman+(F)&sid=1
Since the Tripura Govt. is honouring her today. I I would also like to
pay my respects by posting this article that I
had written last year during the centenary celebrations. We all know
that Mrs Burman was a very
talented and accomplished artist herself (she was a student of KC Dey
as well Bhismadev Chattopadhya and performed at various music
conferences in the 30s) and was very intimately involved in SD
Burman's music. I heard many accounts about her when I met people
during SDB's centenary celebration last year. Neerajji for instance
had mentioned how he had first recited the lyrics of 'Rangeela Re' to
her and how she had appreciated them very much and he later recited it
to Dada. He described her as a highly educated and cultured lady.
Meera Dev Burman is definitely the unsung and forgotton talent of the
Burman family. This is my salute to the woman behind not one but two
legendary men!
Regards,
Ritu
------------------------------------------------------------------
Genius comes in pack of three
--------------------------------------------------------------------
A shady bylane in a quiet Mumbai suburb, a sprawling house belonging
to an avant-garde composer and an old lady who occupies this house
till date. Lost to the world and almost lost to life she lives out her
lonely autumn years in the care of a few devoted servants. The house
is `Marylands' in Santa Cruz, belonging to the avant-garde
composer Rahul Dev Burman and the old lady in question, his mother Mrs
Meera Dev Burman wife of SD Burman. Such is the travesty of time that
today Mrs Burman, the last living member of the illustrious Burman
clan is sadly oblivious to the fact that her dead son is a cult figure
and the world celebrates her husband's centenary.
Rewind to the late 30s... Meera Dasgupta was a beautiful young lady.
Born in an affluent family from Dhaka she got the best of the vibrant
social and cultural environment of Bengal of those days. She learnt
dancing from Amartya Sen's mother and for music she joined a school
called `Sur Mandir'. The school was run by a handsome prince from
Tripura who had made a big name for himself as a folk and classical
singer. Meera's singing talent soon brought her to the attention of
her guru Sachin Dev Burman. She accompanied him for various musical
conferences and despite the age gap love soon blossomed and Meera
Dasgupta became Meera Dev Burman in 1938. In 1939 Tublu, aka, Pancham,
aka Rahul Dev Burman was born. It was in the same period the Burmans
recorded the delightful duet `Gaye je papiha gaye' the tune of which
was reused later for the Ashok Kumar-
Amirbai Karnataki duet Har Din Hai Naya from SD's debut film Shikari.
After recording a couple of songs Meera withdrew from the limelight to
support her husband's sangeet sadhana. She would be his sounding
board, suggest tune ideas and would often pen down his ideas in
Bengali which he would pass to lyricists to convey his vision. Soon
their young son who lived in Calcutta with his grandmother started
growing up. As an only child he was a cause of great worry for his
parents due to his lack of interest in studies, till one day Dada
caught the young boy humming a tune that he claimed he composed. Dada
knew in an instant where his son's future lay. After much family
deliberation, Rahul Dev Burman was transported to Bombay
where he started training under the tutelage of his father.
The decision was a momentous one. Pancham, as he was popularly known,
was a prodigal talent and when such high quality raw material came
into the hands of a master sculptor like Sachinda the end product had
to be a piece to behold till eternity. A fact that is more evident by
RD's popularity today than ever before.
Pancham contributed to his father's music from the very early days. An
odd mouth organ here, a banjo played there. And then the famous Aie
meri topi palat ke aa, a tune a young RD hummed unwittingly to his
father and was surprised to see it on screen in Funtoosh. "That was my
creation", the child accused. "So what you are my creation" the father
replied affectionately.
With Pyaasa, using Guru Dutt's influence on his father, RD became a
formal assistant to Burmanda. He had a flair for instruments from a
very young age. Trained in classical music by Ali Akbar Khan and
Pandit Brijen Biswas, he picked up playing a host of western
instruments from other sources. The end result was a prominent
talent for orchestration. Dada used his son's services extensively in
that area. He took apprenticeship under Dada on the art of composition
and to mould a tune to suit film situations.
Dada's bout of ill health in sixties saw Pancham playing a greater
role the SD team. Films of that era benefited tremendously from his
orchestration skills. In the early sixties Pancham made his debut as a
full-fledged composer with `Chote Nawab'. It was a top class
soundtrack coming from the son of a top class composer; however he had
to wait around till Teesri Manzil before he become a force to reckon
with. Pancham broke away from Dada's school of music completely with
this film to define his own style. A style, which today, has become a
school of music in itself.
Despite his individual success Pancham continued to work with his
father as his chief assistant on prestigious projects through the
sixties like Jewel Thief, Talaash and ofcourse Aradhana. After SD's
Aradhana and the coming of the Kishore wave (which rode greatly on
RD's music), Pancham suddenly found himself loaded with work. Time
had come for the son to finally fly the nest. Pancham ceased to be his
father's full-time assistant.
It was at this time that Meera Dev Burman stepped back into the
limelight. She replaced her son as Dada's chief assistant and started
to work full time on his films. Credited sometimes as `Assistant Music
Director" Meera Dev Burman paired with SD in a host of memorable films
from the seventies like "Tere Mere Sapne", "Abhiman", "Mili", "Us
Paar". In this period she also involved herself with Dada's parallel
Bengali output. Dada would record 3-4 folk and classical songs every
year on Durga Pooja in Bengali. A large number of these songs like
`Banshi Shune Aar Kaaj Nai' , `Ke Jaash Re', `Ghaate Lagaiya Dinga'
were penned by his wife.
Son RD, continued to contribute to his parents efforts esp after
Dada's health took an irreversible dip in the seventies. Dada's last
few films like Mili were completed by Pancham.
In the early days RD had to struggle to come out of the shadow of his
legendry father. His happiest moment was when his father came beaming
one morning to tell him that for the first time in his life he was
recognized not as SD Burman but as RD Burman's father. Both SD and
Meera were extremely proud of their son.
RD Burman did not have any progeny putting a full stop to this
illustrious line of heritage. However the Burman legacy lives and
thrives. It lives on through their music. It is living hundred years
after Sachinda was born and it will still be thriving when Pancham
celebrates his centenary!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Abhay Jain
"Ritu" <ritucha...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189862221....@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
Any details of those two songs? Were they in Hindi or Brngali?
AJ
Ritu
> "Ritu" <rituchandra0...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1189862221....@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> >http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070914/asp/northeast/story_8315541.asp
>
> > Tripura Govt. is honouring Mrs Burman today in Bombay.
>
> > It has been discovered that she was moved to an old age home in Navi
> > Mumbai by Asha Bhosle 9 months back. While there might be different
> > versions to the 'Whys' and 'Hows' of the situation, being a fan of
> > Sachinda her plight has greatly pained me. She really does not deserve
> > to go through all this tamasha in her autumn years. May God put an end
> > to her sufferings.
>
I have heard two songs by her. One Hindi 'Tum ho bade chit chor' and
one duet in Bengali with SD Burman 'Gaye je papiha gaaye'. However
there are probably 2-3 songs additional known to have been reocrded by
her. There is one more duet with SDB IIRC. I'll fish out the list
sometime and post it.
The duet 'Gaaye je papiha' might also take a distinction for being the
only conventional(romantic) duet SD Burman has sung. The only the
other real duet he has sung is 'Babu babu re' a male-male duet from 8
days . Apart from that he has only sung solos or atmost sung snippets
in songs by other singers e.g 'Kya yeh zindagi hai'.
Ritu
kali...@gmail.com
I heard this in a radio program many year ago. Majrooh Sultanpuri was
in converstation with the host. He said, " Barman Dada maha kanjoos
the. ek baar bole" Mujroo, kelaa khaayegaa? (Dada always called him
Mujroo) Majrooh was surprised. Aaj Dada ko kya ho gaya hai, said
enthusiatically, "Haan Dada" Dada ne gaaRi rukwaaii , bole " jaa
saamne se le aa!
kcp
> http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070914/asp/northeast/story_8315541.asp
>
> Tripura Govt. is honouring Mrs Burman today in Bombay.
>
> It has been discovered that she was moved to an old age home in Navi
> Mumbai by Asha Bhosle 9 months back. While there might be different
> versions to the 'Whys' and 'Hows' of the situation, being a fan of
> Sachinda her plight has greatly pained me. She really does not deserve
> to go through all this tamasha in her autumn years. May God put an end
> to her sufferings.
>
great !! i had missed when you posted the earlier writeup.
My friend has started a new blog on RDB ( Meera and SDB would be
regularly featured there )...do watch out for this blog, for it
promises to have the best info on RDB ever, in the future
http://allaboutrdburman.blogspot.com/2007/09/dynasty.html
KCP
UVR
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Genius comes in pack of three
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Pancham contributed to his father's music from the very early days. An
> odd mouth organ here, a banjo played there. And then the famous Aie
> meri topi palat ke aa, a tune a young RD hummed unwittingly to his
> father and was surprised to see it on screen in Funtoosh. "That was my
> creation", the child accused. "So what you are my creation" the father
>
>
> In the early days RD had to struggle to come out of the shadow of his
> legendry father. His happiest moment was when his father came beaming
> one morning to tell him that for the first time in his life he was
> recognized not as SD Burman but as RD Burman's father. Both SD and
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have, of course, heard this thing about the Funtoosh song many
times before. I must confess to being baffled by SDB's response
every time I read it. I totally fail to comprehend the logic behind
SDB first passing off his son's tune as his own, and worse, when
challenged, replying as he did. I daresay that, as a father myself,
I have no doubt that in a similar position, I would seize the
slightest
opportunity to shine the limelight on my son -- versus filching his
work and sticking my name on it with nary a trace of compunction!
And what a disingenuous excuse ("affectionately" is really not the
adjective that comes to mind for it)! It's anything but a symbol of
the moral uprightness a member of a royal family is expected to
display.
Someone please defend SDB, because I can't see any "other
side" to this picture.
-UVR.
Ketan
>>
>> Pancham contributed to his father's music from the very early days. An
>> odd mouth organ here, a banjo played there. And then the famous Aie
>> meri topi palat ke aa, a tune a young RD hummed unwittingly to his
>> father and was surprised to see it on screen in Funtoosh. "That was my
>> creation", the child accused. "So what you are my creation" the father
>> replied affectionately. [...]
>I have, of course, heard this thing about the Funtoosh song many
>times before. I must confess to being baffled by SDB's response
>every time I read it. I totally fail to comprehend the logic behind
>SDB first passing off his son's tune as his own, and worse, when
>challenged, replying as he did. I daresay that, as a father myself,
>I have no doubt that in a similar position, I would seize the
>slightest
>opportunity to shine the limelight on my son -- versus filching his
>work and sticking my name on it with nary a trace of compunction!
>And what a disingenuous excuse ("affectionately" is really not the
>adjective that comes to mind for it)! It's anything but a symbol of
>the moral uprightness a member of a royal family is expected to
>display.
>
>Someone please defend SDB, because I can't see any "other
>side" to this picture.
"Tumne bulaya aur hum chale aaye..." Ok so it's a Rafi song. Sue me!
I for one see no problem with SDB's response..IF(and it's a big IF) what he said
is true.
Firstly, we have no idea what RD composed for the Funtoosh song. Was it the
mukhdaa, antara, base tune, one line?. Whatever RD had composed, I am sure it
did not end up in the movie in exactly that shape, without undergoing some
polishing by SDB.
Secondly, we don't know what SDB's exact response was. This is coming to us
through various secondary sources, one of them being Raju Bharatan. How many
fistful of salts do we take this statement with?
Without knowing some more facts about the above two points I find this whole
discussion pointless.
Having said that, let us assume that what SDB said about the 15-16 year old RD
is true. While browsing thru the archives at the NCPA in Bombay, I came across
tributes paid to SDB when he passed away. One of the articles was written by a
film industry journalist(forgot his name), who wrote that SDB was reluctant to
even let RD take credit for "Sar jo tera chakraye"(Pyaasa). When he asked SDB
why, SDB had replied (paraphrasing) "He is too young and not ready for prime
time. Praising him when he is still in training and learning the craft would
only make him lose focus". The journalist then goes on to write that infact SDB
was initially livid and had chewed out RD when he suggested the "Sar jo tera
chakraye" tune, because according to SDB, there was no space in the story/script
for the song. How, according to SDB, could RDB compose tunes without knowing the
story and characters first? According to this writer, rather than being selfish,
SDB was being protective of RD. He had gone thru his share of failures in Bombay
from 1946-1950 and he knew first hand what a tough dog-eat-dog industry it was.
He was worried that RD would think he was ready to take on big banner movies,
and would compose music without understanding the requirements and would end up
a failure pretty soon and be disheartened.
Ud. Zakir Hussain cites a somewhat similar example when as a teenager he was
accompanying a musician and while everyone else went "wah-wah" during and after
the concert, Ud. Allah Rakha was quiet. After they reached home around midnight
or so, Ud. Allah Rakha let loose his temper and listed all the mistakes Zakir
had made during the concert. He then made Zakir do riyaaz till 2 am and gave him
a timeout as regards future concerts till he--Ud. Allah Rakha--decided Zakir was
ready.
Do I agree with either SDB's or Ud. Allah Rakha's line of reasoning? Yes! I
would probably do the same with my son. Call it old archaic traditions, but we
Indians still do believe in "bahut taarif mat karo, nazar lag jaayegi".
As regards the "moral uprightness of a royal family", the first task of a royal
family is to continue to be seen as being royal. Failures and mistakes, letting
their hair down or removing the mask would make them human and no different than
you and me. That's atleast what Helen Mirren managed to convey brilliantly in
"Queen".
Ketan
Prithviraj Dasgupta
I just recalled another Bengali solo by MDB - "aaj dol dilo ki hiyaay
aamaar phul phaguner din".
On another note, I'm a bit surprised that despite so much activity
centered around SDB's centenary celebrations, a complete discography
of his works as MD and singer and including his bengali output is yet
to be published. Pity there's no ready reference like HFGK in
Bengali:).
-pdg/
UVR
> In article <1190150361.800775.142...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, UVR says...
>
>
>
>
>
> >> Pancham contributed to his father's music from the very early days. An
> >> odd mouth organ here, a banjo played there. And then the famous Aie
> >> meri topi palat ke aa, a tune a young RD hummed unwittingly to his
> >> father and was surprised to see it on screen in Funtoosh. "That was my
> >> creation", the child accused. "So what you are my creation" the father
> >> replied affectionately. [...]
> >I have, of course, heard this thing about the Funtoosh song many
> >times before. I must confess to being baffled by SDB's response
> >every time I read it. I totally fail to comprehend the logic behind
> >SDB first passing off his son's tune as his own, and worse, when
> >challenged, replying as he did. I daresay that, as a father myself,
> >I have no doubt that in a similar position, I would seize the
> >slightest
> >opportunity to shine the limelight on my son -- versus filching his
> >work and sticking my name on it with nary a trace of compunction!
> >And what a disingenuous excuse ("affectionately" is really not the
> >adjective that comes to mind for it)! It's anything but a symbol of
> >the moral uprightness a member of a royal family is expected to
> >display.
>
> >Someone please defend SDB, because I can't see any "other
> >side" to this picture.
>
> "Tumne bulaya aur hum chale aaye..." Ok so it's a Rafi song. Sue me!
>
> I for one see no problem with SDB's response..IF(and it's a big IF) what
> he said is true.
>
> Do I agree with either SDB's or Ud. Allah Rakha's line of reasoning? Yes! I
> would probably do the same with my son. Call it old archaic traditions, but we
> Indians still do believe in "bahut taarif mat karo, nazar lag jaayegi".
>
>
Thank you for your response. I do not take issue with that last
statement -- excessive ta'areef kisi kaa phir sar phiraa sakti hai.
However (and this is the key point I was trying to make earlier),
I think there is a BIG difference between on the one hand
protecting one's talented child from overexposure and overly
generous praise, and on the other hand stealing his/her work
and brazenly passing it off as your own. Ud. Allah Rakha's
reaction is one that I would gladly accept as the loving gesture
of a well-meaning parent. I would applaud you if you did the
same with your son.
However, SDB's action with the Funtoosh song (*assuming*
it's really what he had done) is not something that strikes me
as being in the same league at all (maybe the Pyaasa song
was). If SDB wanted to keep his son from receiving undue
praise and wished to keep "adulation" from going to RD's
head, he could simply have NOT used that tune -- what gets
me riled up is not the fact that SDB kept the credit from RDB
but that he took the tune without so much as asking its creator.
It's like a professor passing off a student's invention as his
own -- I don't think "we are orientals at heart" is a sufficient
excuse for this.
Anyway, your point is well taken that what really transpired
between SDB and RDB w.r.t the Funtoosh song is not known
beyond Bharatan-able doubt. That's grounds to call it quits
as far as this particular "OT" discussion is concerned.
-UVR.
Abhay Jain
"UVR" <u...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1190228160.6...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
LOL. This is the same "creator" whose father may have
stolen (allegedly) his tune wheras people (not me) in this forum
have called this creator a mahachor. Did he inherit this trait
assuming papa was a chor? No such allegations made against papa
that I know of of chori on a grand scale like the son.
AJ
>
Ketan
>> me riled up is not the fact that SDB kept the credit from RDB
>> but that he took the tune without so much as asking its creator.
>
>LOL. This is the same "creator" whose father may have
>stolen (allegedly) his tune wheras people (not me) in this forum
>have called this creator a mahachor. Did he inherit this trait
>assuming papa was a chor? No such allegations made against papa
>that I know of of chori on a grand scale like the son.
These two belong to the same industry which in its 75 years of existence, has
only had two MD's actually taking permission before using someone else's tune
and two other MD's acknowledging upfront that their tunes were based on someone
else's creation. So why blame father or son.
Quiz: Name the MD's and the songs.
Ketan
Abhay Phadnis
(snip)
> These two belong to the same industry which in its 75 years of existence, has
> only had two MD's actually taking permission before using someone else's tune
> and two other MD's acknowledging upfront that their tunes were based on someone
> else's creation. So why blame father or son.
>
> Quiz: Name the MD's and the songs.
Two that fit the taking permission bit:
- MM asking SH for permission to use the tune of "YHYRYC" for "TKSMD"
- SEL taking permission (and, IIRC, paying some money) to use the tune
of "PW" for...."PW"!!
Not sure of the acknowledgement examples.
Warm regards,
Abhay
>
> Ketan
irfan
>
> - Show quoted text -
I remember S.D.Burman saying in 1967 Vivid Bharati's Fauji
Bhiyon
Ke Liiyey -" MeiNaiN is gaaney ke liiyey Ustad ji (Ustad Fayyaz
Khan)
se ijazat liiyaa" - and then played jhan jhan jhan jhan payal
baajay/Lata
in fil Buzdil.
Regards,
Irfan
Shalini Razdan
> On Sep 20, 7:41 am, Ketan <Ketan_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> (snip)
>
> > These two belong to the same industry which in its 75 years of existence, has
> > only had two MD's actually taking permission before using someone else's tune
> > and two other MD's acknowledging upfront that their tunes were based on someone
> > else's creation. So why blame father or son.
>
> > Quiz: Name the MD's and the songs.
>
> Two that fit the taking permission bit:
> - MM asking SH for permission to use the tune of "YHYRYC" for "TKSMD"
I don't think MM asked Sajjad permission to use the "yeh hawa yeh
raat" tune. He just admitted to the plagarism when *confronted* by
Sajjad.
> - SEL taking permission (and, IIRC, paying some money) to use the tune
> of "PW" for...."PW"!!
>
I believe this is true. The only other instance I can think of is
Roshan obtaining permission from NFAK's father to use the "ishq ishq"
tune in Barsat Ki Raat.
Shalini
> Not sure of the acknowledgement examples.
>
> Warm regards,
> Abhay
>
>
>
>
>
arun
>
> - Show quoted text -
which song is "PW"?
UVR
Roy Orbison.
-UVR.
UVR
> In article <TikIi.210$G...@newsfe12.lga>, Abhay Jain says...
If the treatment a father would mete out to his son is no better than
that the treatment he would mete out to his professional colleagues,
there is something really sorry in the state of affairs. Or vice
versa.
E.g., a 'prince' who overthrows his own father to occupy the throne
by force is universally viewed in a much more damning light than
one who mounts an attack on another king sans casus belli.
Stealing may be the norm in the industry, but stealing (if indeed
that was done) from one's own son is still something hard to
digest.
-UVR.
Ketan
>If the treatment a father would mete out to his son is no better than
>that the treatment he would mete out to his professional colleagues,
>there is something really sorry in the state of affairs. Or vice
>versa.
>E.g., a 'prince' who overthrows his own father to occupy the throne
>by force is universally viewed in a much more damning light than
>one who mounts an attack on another king sans casus belli.
So you are comparing Aurangzeb to Dubya? I can just hear Aurangzeb saying "I am
a bigger posterior orifice than you are" and Dubya saying "Bring it on".
>
>Stealing may be the norm in the industry, but stealing (if indeed
>that was done) from one's own son is still something hard to
>digest.
I repeat---we have no idea what RD had composed and hence we have no idea what
SDB "stole".
I don't even think the word "stealing" is appropriate here. Various articles
have written that SDB heard RDB humming/whistling a tune and RD was surprised to
see it as a song in Funtoosh. I would be hard pressed to believe RD was
humming/whistling the prelude-mukhdaa-interlude(s)-antara-coda of "Ai meri topi
palat ke aa".
As for the treatement meted out by a parent to their child, Majrooh has himself
said, when RD was the assistant, SD was tougher on him than he was on Jaidev.
SDB didn't want to show any leniency to RD on account of his being the son. He
is not the first person to do that nor will he be the last. This is a universal
thing and something that has been featured even in Archie comics--Chuck and
Coach Clayton.
As regards my quiz:
I had in mind Roshan taking permission from SDB for "Rahen na rahen hum" and
S-E-L taking permission for Pretty Woman. Why Roshan had to take permission for
the Mamta song and not the Chandni Chowk song is something that perplexes me. I
had no idea SDB had taken permission for the Buzdil song and had forgotten that
Roshan took permission for the Barsaat ki Raat qawalli.
As for acknowledgements--my question was misworded. I had the MM-Sajjad episode
in mind but MM did not acknowledge it till he was confronted. The only other
instance I can think of is RD saying in an interview that he had based "Saagar
Kinare" on "Thandi Hawayen" and "Rahen na rahen hum". Why he didn't acknowledge
this for the Naram Garam song which was composed before Saagar is another thing
that perplexes me.
Ketan
Shalini Razdan
> In article <1190297256.066613.270...@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, UVR says...
Since the point UVR has been trying to make seems to be eluding you,
let me see if I can reduce it to it's starkest ethical terms. *IF*
RDB composed the tunes of "aye meri topi" and/or "sar jo tera
chakraye," THEN SDB passing them off as his own creations is stealing
and is WRONG.
Shalini
> Ketan
UVR
Thank you, Shalini. That's exactly the point I was making,
as far as the "chori" part of it goes, and you've put it better
than I myself could. The "seenazori" makes it that much
more disgusting.
-UVR.
Ketan
And I repeat--it is NOT WRONG even IF RD had indeed composed the tunes and SDB
had passed them off as his own. This is not as black and white as you two make
it out to be. There is nuance involved here (age, grooming, training, learning
curve, time & place) which I have already gone into which seems to elude the two
of you.
I am sure there exist plenty of examples where Dattaram is the originator of a
tune which was labelled as an S-J creation or GM's tune passed off as Naushad's
and so on. That is the relationship between a MD and his assistant. The two of
you seem incapable of getting out of the father-son relationship between SD and
RD and looking at it from a guru-shishya relationship.
Let me flip this around. Suppose RD had been slammed for composing a horrible
song for hmm..say Chhote Nawab. Just suppose. And suppose SDB had stepped in to
say that it was actually HE who composed this song and not RD. Suppose we then
found out after SD's death that it was actually RD who had composed it, but SD
stole the "credit" so as to shield RD from the barbs and brickbats that would
dent his confidence in his maiden movie. Would you two then be upset at SD for
"stealing" this credit?
BTW, that same article that provided the reason for SDB not giving RD credit for
Funtoosh and Pyaasa also mentioned that SD gave the credit for "Ghar aaja ghir
aayi" to RD, because a) that was the only way he could get Lata to sing for it
during their feud and b) he wanted to test the market to see if they appreciated
RD and if he could go solo henceforth. And let us not forget that SDB composed
two songs for Amar Prem, the credit for which still rests with RD. But I guess
that sort of "stealing" would be ok in your non-grey world.
Anyway 'nuff said. You can play this
"I-am-morally-and-ethically-upright-than-you" game if you want. I guess I am not
as pure as you two. I will grit my teeth and live through this shame.
Ketan
UVR
> In article <1190323775.798014.59...@v29g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, UVR says...
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Sep 20, 1:07 pm, Shalini Razdan <shaliniraz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Sep 20, 3:24 pm, Ketan <Ketan_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> >> Since the point UVR has been trying to make seems to be eluding you,
> >> let me see if I can reduce it to it's starkest ethical terms. *IF*
> >> RDB composed the tunes of "aye meri topi" and/or "sar jo tera
> >> chakraye," THEN SDB passing them off as his own creations is stealing
> >> and is WRONG.
>
> >> Shalini
>
> >> > Ketan
>
> >Thank you, Shalini. That's exactly the point I was making,
> >as far as the "chori" part of it goes, and you've put it better
> >than I myself could. The "seenazori" makes it that much
> >more disgusting.
>
> And I repeat--it is NOT WRONG even IF RD had indeed composed the tunes and SDB
> had passed them off as his own. This is not as black and white as you two make
> it out to be. There is nuance involved here (age, grooming, training, learning
> curve, time & place) which I have already gone into which seems to elude the two
> of you.
Explain why SDB could not have just ignored the use of the tune.
> Anyway 'nuff said. You can play this
> "I-am-morally-and-ethically-upright-than-you" game if you want. I guess I am not
> as pure as you two. I will grit my teeth and live through this shame.
Nobody is playing a game of oneupmanship. I am just speaking
my mind. N
Abhijit
Well, that 'chorii' could well be an inspiration and, in that case, it
showcases Dada's ba.Dappan to have adopted a tune from a kid. As for
'siinaazorii', it all depends on in what manner he uttered those
words. If it really was done "affectionately", there is hardly any
'siinaazorii'. As someone said, 7% meaning is in spoken words, 38% the
way they are said and 55% in facial expression or body language. So
how does one (who wasn't present there) know what Dada meant? What we
are seeing are written words.
kcp
afaik, this remark of dada (so what? you are my son) has never
appeared in media before ( ritu can correct me if I am wrong)
this remark of dada was told to me personally by RDB's close friend, a
padmashri holder, and one of the most respected names in 'indian' film
music. it was indeed said in an affectionate manner
I hope the debate ends here
kcp
Ketan
>Explain why SDB could not have just ignored the use of the tune.
You can use the explanation in this link
http://dr-narasinha-kamath.sulekha.com/blog/post/2006/11/birth-centenary-of-s-d-burman.htm
Or the one in this link as the answer.
http://www.geocities.com/~sm0e/R-rdTribute.txt
Ketan
UVR
> In article <1190344359.951812.190...@v29g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, UVR says...
>
> >Explain why SDB could not have just ignored the use of the tune.
>
> You can use the explanation in this link
>
Sorry, I meant to ask why SDB felt he just HAD TO use RDB's tune --
could he not have composed a song himself?
I could not find an answer to that question in your post(s) nor at the
URLs you reference.
-UVR.
UVR
> correct abhijit.
>
> afaik, this remark of dada (so what? you are my son) has never
> appeared in media before ( ritu can correct me if I am wrong)
>
> this remark of dada was told to me personally by RDB's close friend, a
> padmashri holder, and one of the most respected names in 'indian' film
> music. it was indeed said in an affectionate manner
>
> I hope the debate ends here
>
> kcp
>
"Affectionately" might provide some sort of a justification
for the 'seenazori' part. But it doesn't explain anything
about the 'chori'.
Let me see if I can't explain it some other way.
Say you are a painter (like MF Husain, right?). You have an
exhibition of your work coming up. You are requested to put
10 brand new paintings up for display. You finish 9, but for
the 10th, you don't paint one yourself, but instead pick up a
sheet on which your own son had doodled something when
he was 3, then you add a dash of red to it here and a dab of
blue there, and then pass this painting off as off as your 10th
"brand new" painting.
Later, your son sees this painting and says, "hey, dad, isn't
that what *I* had made?" And you say, "oh yes, beta, it is!
But who made you!"
"Affectionately" doesn't explain why you chose not to paint
the 10th painting yourself!
-UVR.
Vinay
Personally I find that reaction full of affection. In fact, whatever I
have heard or read of the relationship of SDB-RDB, it looks to me like
a typical Indian father-son relationship.
But the point is it shouldn't matter what I think or you think. It is
a personal relationship. Each father-son relationship is different
from other. The point to note is that RDB did not have an issue with
the whole thing; he understood the affection behind it. He understood
the priviledges a father has (the same way as sons can take several
liberties with their fathers).
Listen to the "Meri Sangeet Yaatra" tapes (or read the transcripts
that I posted here, if you don't have the audio) and this will become
evident. Listen to RDB getting even by saying "baap kaa maal bahut
churaayaa hai mai.nne".
Vinay
> -UVR.
Ketan
You are wrong. What the son had made was a mere doodle. What was presented as
the 10th painting was the doodle WITH the dash of red and a dab of blue. Therein
lies the big difference. If you read thru the URL's I posted, the answers are
there in it should you wish to understand them. Otherwise I am done here.
Ketan
UVR
> In article <1190402070.099709.80...@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, UVR says...
Read Ritu's post again. She writes (and I quote):
"That was my creation", the child accused. "So what you are my
creation" the father replied affectionately.
It seems to me that this is very much the same thing as (the father)
saying, "Yes, it is, but who made you!"
But you say you're done, so you're done. And so am I.
-UVR.
a111...@hotmail.com
S P
S P
Meera ji had said this marraige can happen over her dead body..... Here is the reality
RD Burman Asha Bhosle marriage is one of many "cooked up" stories of bollywood.
Till date no marriage certificate or photos have been found, as a result courts hv refused to give legal rights to bhosle of rd's last residence Maryland.
Insiders say Asha, Lata forced rd to marry her, else they wld stop singing for him, a got up marriage was set up, camera flashes were there but in reality no photo was ever taken and ofcourse no marraige
One shld know Meera DevBurman, mother of rd said you can marry Asha over my dead body., soon she was brain damaged and this marriage facade took place around 1980.
Who wld willingly marry a person who ran away at 16 to hv a marraige, produce 3 kids, then for 14 yrs in relation with another person (o p nayyer), ruining his family life, then found rising music director, 6 yrs younger to her, RD to climb up the ladder
When rd went to england for open heart surgery in late 1980's he went alone, where was this so called wife, can any normal person be so cruel, let alone a wife
Worse is yet to come....
After RD's death, Asha bhosle secretly sent old widow suffering from alzhimer's to a far off oldage home in order to enjoy the whole house of RD by the Bhosles.
But destiny has its own way, Tripura govt decided to felicitate Meera Dev Burman, wife of SD, belonging to the Royal family of Tripura. So they found her out, soon media came to know and bhosle had to bring back Meera ji to her own house, she was in a state of comma.
Ppl must think before blindly praising the mangeshkar sisters, they may be good singer not g