"MissiAmma" Song
Afzal A. Khan
The Hindi film "Miss Mary" was a remake of films made in the
South. I don't quite know which was the first : the Tamil
version or the Telugu version.
Anyway, I remember seeing the Telugu film more than 40
years back. It had Savitri, NTR and ANR. In the film(s),
there is a situation where, after a lovers' tiff, the hero
takes his case to the moon. The song in "Miss Mary" was
"O raat ke musaafir, chanda zara batade..". After all these
years, I can still recall the corresponding song in the
Telugu film. The opening line went something like
"Vaarayowin Nilave...". I think "Nilave" means the Moon.
("Nilavu" in Tamil ?). If anything, the Telugu song was
more melodious and sweet than the Hemant Kumar creation.
Can I request one of our friends from the South (you can
read SG, if you want !) to post the full lyrics of this
Telugu song ? And a rough English rendition too ?
And, to forestall RMIMers who don't want to scroll down,
let me offer my thanks in advance !
Afzal
Srinivas Ganti
>"Afzal A. Khan" <il_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3DA5BFE1...@yahoo.com...
> Anyway, I remember seeing the Telugu film more than 40
> years back. It had Savitri, NTR and ANR. In the film(s),
> there is a situation where, after a lovers' tiff, the hero
> takes his case to the moon. The song in "Miss Mary" was
> "O raat ke musaafir, chanda zara batade..". After all these
> years, I can still recall the corresponding song in the
> Telugu film. The opening line went something like
> "Vaarayowin Nilave...".
The movie was called "Missamma" in Telugu and "Missiamma" in Tamil.
Well the song is "raavoyi chandama, maa vinta gaada vinumaa". Awesome
renedition by AM Raja and
P.Leela .Music was by, perhaps the greatest of Telugu MD's, Saluri
Rajeshwara Rao.He also scored
for the late 40's Hindi movie Chandralekha and its songs can be heard at
indianscreen. Moon is called
Chandamamma or Chandrudu in Telugu.btw Telugu is close to Sanskrit as
opposed to Tamil.
(The other day one friend was asking me why many Telugu MD's have Rao at the
end of their name.
That has something to do with caste equations. Most "kammas" have Rao at the
end of their name.
Many Brahmins also do, but it is Kammas who dominate the film Industry. The
greatest matinee idols
of the film industry were N.T Rama Rao and A.Nageshwara Rao. Both were in
Missamma .
My friend suggested that I shud modify my name to G.Srinivasa Rao and
compose music.
The last name of my friend ends with "kar" so I promtly suggested that he
can score music without
even modifying his name! :), and become famous like Chitalkar, Bhatkar,
Davjekar, Korgaonkar etc.).
> Can I request one of our friends from the South (you can
> read SG, if you want !) to post the full lyrics of this
> Telugu song ? And a rough English rendition too ?
Sure!
sg.
@usa.net Nimish
news:ao4ser$issjr$1...@ID-75004.news.dfncis.de...
>
> The movie was called "Missamma" in Telugu and "Missiamma" in Tamil.
>
> Well the song is "raavoyi chandama, maa vinta gaada vinumaa". Awesome
> renedition by AM Raja and
> P.Leela .Music was by, perhaps the greatest of Telugu MD's, Saluri
> Rajeshwara Rao.He also scored
> for the late 40's Hindi movie Chandralekha and its songs can be heard at
> indianscreen. Moon is called
> Chandamamma or Chandrudu in Telugu.btw Telugu is close to Sanskrit as
> opposed to Tamil.
>
<<<FUNNY STORY DELETED>>>
>
> > Can I request one of our friends from the South (you can
> > read SG, if you want !) to post the full lyrics of this
> > Telugu song ? And a rough English rendition too ?
>
>
> Sure!
>
> sg.
Over to sdburman.com :)
__NSP__
UVR
> South. I don't quite know which was the first : the Tamil
> version or the Telugu version.
>
> Anyway, I remember seeing the Telugu film more than 40
> years back. It had Savitri, NTR and ANR. In the film(s),
> there is a situation where, after a lovers' tiff, the hero
> takes his case to the moon. The song in "Miss Mary" was
> "O raat ke musaafir, chanda zara batade..". After all these
> years, I can still recall the corresponding song in the
> Telugu film. The opening line went something like
> "Vaarayowin Nilave...". I think "Nilave" means the Moon.
> ("Nilavu" in Tamil ?).
The Tamil song is "vaaraayO vennilaavE", meaning, almost exactly:
"aajaa re, o re chandaa". The Telugu equivalent is "raavOyi
chandamaama" and means the same thing, too.
BTW, the Tamil movie was titled "Missiamma" and Telugu version,
"Missamma" ('i' between 'miss' and 'amma' is missing <grin>).
> If anything, the Telugu song was
> more melodious and sweet than the Hemant Kumar creation.
I agree, although my opinion could be biased by the fact that
the Telugu song brings back fond memories of my Mom singing
the song to me with me lying in her lap. When I hear the song
today, I find the Hindi version just a tad better ... may be
because both my mom and Leela sound sweeter to my ears than
Leela? :) Hemant v/s AM Rajah is an almost-but-not-quite
even match, IMO.
It's a pity Hemant didn't reuse this tune in Miss Mary as he
did that of "brindaavan kaa kR^ishN kanhaiyaa". Perhaps, in
spite of the fact that the Telugu tune is in Bhimpalas, he
felt it was too *Madrasi*? Just a guess.
> Can I request one of our friends from the South (you can
> read SG, if you want !) to post the full lyrics of this
> Telugu song ? And a rough English rendition too ?
>
> And, to forestall RMIMers who don't want to scroll down,
> let me offer my thanks in advance !
Here are the lyrics from the version of the song at Music-
IndiaOnline.Com. Enjoy. If only you had requested a Hindi/
Urdu translation ... :) As such, I'll have to step aside to
let Ganti (or someone else) do the honors in English.
-UVR.
Film: Missamma
Music: S. Rajeswara Rao
Lyrics: Pingali
Singers: AM Rajah, P Leela
AM Rajah:
raavOyi chandamaama, maa vinta gaadha vinumaa \-2
raavOyi chandamaama
saamantamu gala satiki dhiimantuDanagu patinOy \-2
sati-pati pOrE balamai satamatamaayenu bratukE
P Leela:
raavOyi chandamaama, maa vinta gaadha vinumaa \-2
raavOyi chandamaama
pratinalu palikina patitO bratukaga vachchina satinOy \-2
maaTalu buuTakamaayE naTanalu nErchenu chaalaa
AMR:
raavOyi chandamaama, maa vinta gaadha vinumaa \-2
raavOyi chandamaama
tana matamEmO tanadi, mana matamasalE paDadOy \-2
manamU manadanu maaTE ananii eduTaamanadOy
Leela:
raavOyi chandamaama, maa vinta gaadha vinumaa \-2
raavOyi chandamaama
naatO tegavulu paDuTE ataniki muchchhaTalEmO \-2
ii vidhi kaapurameTulO niivoka kanTanu ganumaa
Both:
raavOyi chandamaama, maa vinta gaadha vinumaa \-2
raavOyi chandamaama
Srinivas Ganti
>UVR <u...@usa.net> wrote
> Film: Missamma
> Music: S. Rajeswara Rao
> Lyrics: Pingali
> Singers: AM Rajah, P Leela
Pingali is Pingali Nagendra Rao
> AM Rajah:
> raavOyi chandamaama, maa vinta gaadha vinumaa \-2
o moon come and listen to our strange story
> saamantamu gala satiki dhiimantuDanagu patinOy \-2
I am an intellectual husband for a virtuous wife
saantamu= virtuous (different from its usage of "neighbouring" in "saamanta
raju" = "neighbouring king" )
sati=wife
pari=husband
> sati-pati pOrE balamai satamatamaayenu bratukE
life has bicome shatterred as the husband wife fight gathered momentum
> P Leela:
> pratinalu palikina patitO bratukaga vachchina satinOy \-2
pratinalu=vows
I am the wife who has come to live with the husband who has made vows
> maaTalu buuTakamaayE naTanalu nErchenu chaalaa
his words are deceitful and he has learned to act
> AMR:
> tana matamEmO tanadi, mana matamasalE paDadOy \-2
She has her own releigion and she doesn't like my religion
(she is a christian and he is a hindu)
> manamU manadanu maaTE ananii eduTaamanadOy
> Leela:
> naatO tegavulu paDuTE ataniki muchchhaTalEmO \-2
fighting with him gives him pleasure
> ii vidhi kaapurameTulO niivoka kanTanu ganumaa
o moon see the fate of this marriage
sg.
Suresh
> read SG, if you want !) to post the full lyrics of this
> Telugu song ? And a rough English rendition too ?
I think the Telugu version came first - the Tamil version had Gemini
Ganesan (who also played the same part in Hindi), Savitri, Thangavelu
and Jamuna playing the key roles. The Tamil version of this song -
"Vaaraayo vennilaave" - was rendered by A.M.Rajah and P.Leela - I
think the same two sang in Telugu as well.
I leave it to Srinivas to post the lyrics of this song.
Cheers,
Suresh
Shree
> raju" = "neighbouring king" )
Doesn't "saama.nta raaju" mean a subordinate king in a feudal system?
The kingdom of a "saama.nta raaju" actually belongs to or is conquered
by the Emperor, who "lets" them rule their respective kingdoms after
accepting taxes ("kappamu"). E.g. "harihara bukkaraayulu ballaaLuni
saama.ntulu".
Going by this meaning, "saama.ntamugala sati" would still mean
virtuous wife; the virtue here being obedient/submissive. Or could it
also mean the wife is in possession of a "saama.ntuDu", the husband?
;)
--Shree
Vijay Kumar K
> >UVR <u...@usa.net> wrote
>
> > Film: Missamma
> > Music: S. Rajeswara Rao
> > Lyrics: Pingali
> > Singers: AM Rajah, P Leela
>
>
> > tana matamEmO tanadi, mana matamasalE paDadOy \-2
>
> She has her own releigion and she doesn't like my religion
> (she is a christian and he is a hindu)
>
un ka mat, un ka apana hi hai (mat = opinion)
hamari mat to un ko bilkul bhati nahin hai
(she has her own opinions, and she won't stand any of mine)
Vijay
Srinivas Ganti
>Shree <maz...@hotmail.com> wrote :
> > saantamu= virtuous (different from its usage of "neighbouring" in
"saamanta
> > raju" = "neighbouring king" )
>
> Doesn't "saama.nta raaju" mean a subordinate king in a feudal system?
> The kingdom of a "saama.nta raaju" actually belongs to or is conquered
> by the Emperor, who "lets" them rule their respective kingdoms after
> accepting taxes ("kappamu"). E.g. "harihara bukkaraayulu ballaaLuni
> saama.ntulu".
Yup I know that meaning but "neighbouring king" is what the famous
dictionary
by C.P Brown says. He was an Englishman who was in India, fell in love with
Telugu and is credited with the First dictionary and much more...
Here's an article on him written by Sitaramayya Ari and Sreenivas Paruchuri
http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/modern/people/cpbrown1.html
For everyone their mother tongue is sweet but to give an unbiased opinion
Telugu is one the sweetest and most poetic languages. I would rate it second
best (along with Bengali) and ofcourse Urdu gets the first place.
> Going by this meaning, "saama.ntamugala sati" would still mean
> virtuous wife; the virtue here being obedient/submissive.
Good interpretation!
sg.
Afzal A. Khan
I am truly thankful to all those who have responded to
this thread. Also, I must confess that I goofed up
here. The song that I remembered and wrote about was
very definitely the Tamil one UVR has mentioned. I
must have seen the Tamil version on one of my brief
sojourns in Madras. Anyway, thanks are due to SG
and others who posted the lyrics of the Telugu song
and also explained the meaning.
I think somebody mentioned that the Tamil song too was
sung by the same pair (AM Raja and P. Leela).
I am glad UVR remembered his childhood when his mother
sang this song as some sort of a lullaby. Now it can be
realised why a total stranger to Tamil/Telugu still
remembers this song after all these years. Great combi-
nation of simplicity and melody. I have one question,
though. Are the tunes in Tamil and Telugu versions the
same ?
I am in full agreement with SG when he talks about Telugu,
Bengali and Urdu being such sweet languages. I would add
Persian (Farsi) to that list and also French. My first
"exposure" to Telugu was from a friend in College who would
sing Telugu songs for some of us. He had a fond phrase for
his language : "Telugu is the Italian of the East".
Being rather dense, I didn't quite get what UVR said about
his mom, Leela (the singer) and another Leela. Probably,
those who attend RMIM Meets regularly would have understood.
And yes, UVR is more than welcome to send me, by e-mail,
an Urdu rendition of the "Miss(i)amma" song/s, but not in
iTrans !
Afzal
Kamesh
> I am in full agreement with SG when he talks about Telugu,
> Bengali and Urdu being such sweet languages. I would add
> Persian (Farsi) to that list and also French. My first
> "exposure" to Telugu was from a friend in College who would
> sing Telugu songs for some of us. He had a fond phrase for
> his language : "Telugu is the Italian of the East".
The reason why Telugu is called the Italian of the East is because IMO,
Italian and Telugu are two languages where all sentences and even words end
in vowels.
It is very common to say booku (book), schoolu (school) and the list is
endless...when you start thinking about the words and sentences. Though the
examples are words from English, look at the way they are used in common
telugu conversations.
Actually, Sanskrit is the so called Super Class, Telugu is very closely
related to it.
You must have noticed how, almost all words in Sanskrit have that trailing
vowel as opposed to say Hindi.
e.g., Ram in Hindi is actually pronounced as Rama in Sanskrit.
Kamesh
[ I just assumed the vowel thing about Italian as true (somebody told me so)
and extrapolated that for Telugu]
>
>
> Afzal
Sreenivas Paruchuri
> Chandamamma or Chandrudu in Telugu.btw Telugu is close to Sanskrit as
> opposed to Tamil.
Hmm! Sorry, if I sound rude, but how about getting some basic facts
right!
Well, but this is what most of the 'middle-class, educated' Telugus
think about their own language. As a matter of fact, Telugu is closer to
Tamil!! I won't go into linguistic details on this list. You may do a
simple search with key words like: Dravidian family of languages,
Comparative linguistics, ...
> ..... Rao at the end of their name. That has something to do with
> caste equations.
This is really utter nonsense! "Rao" basically derives from
"raaja/raaya".
Regards,
Sreenivas
Sreenivas Paruchuri
> > saamantamu gala satiki dhiimantuDanagu patinOy \-2
> I am an intellectual husband for a virtuous wife
>
> saantamu= virtuous (different from its usage of "neighbouring" in "saamanta
> raju" = "neighbouring king" )
SG,
The word is: "saamantamu" and not "Saantamu" (=virtuous). Also, there is
no relation to "saamanta raaju".
saamantamu = diTTatanamu
-- Sreenivas
Surjit Singh
> Srinivas Ganti wrote:
>
>
>>Chandamamma or Chandrudu in Telugu.btw Telugu is close to Sanskrit as
>>opposed to Tamil.
>>
>
> Hmm! Sorry, if I sound rude, but how about getting some basic facts
> right!
> Well, but this is what most of the 'middle-class, educated' Telugus
> think about their own language. As a matter of fact, Telugu is closer to
> Tamil!! I won't go into linguistic details on this list. You may do a
> simple search with key words like: Dravidian family of languages,
> Comparative linguistics, ...
It is true that Telugu and Tamil belong to a linguistic family
(Dravidian) that is clearly different from the Indo-European. That has
do with the choice of consonants, vowels, grammar etc. But.
What if we look at the origin of the words used in a language? Is it
fair to say that the percentage of sanskrit-derived (tatsam and tadbhav)
words in Telugu is more than that in Tamil?
Of course all languages have the usual four kinds of words (defined
broadly)(tatsam, tadbhav, deshii, videshii) in various percentages.
QUIZ:
Name a Hindi song that has all 4 kinds of words in the mukh.Daa.
>
>
>>..... Rao at the end of their name. That has something to do with
>>caste equations.
>>
>
> This is really utter nonsense! "Rao" basically derives from
> "raaja/raaya".
>
> Regards,
> Sreenivas
>
--
Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(atic), period.
http://hindi-movies-songs.com
naniwadekar
"Sreenivas Paruchuri" <sre...@gmx.de> wrote -
>
>
> > ..... Rao at the end of their name. That has something to do with
> > caste equations.
>
> This is really utter nonsense! "Rao" basically derives from
> "raaja/raaya".
>
> Regards,
> Sreenivas
>
Let me take your word about the origin of the word 'Rao'.
But I still don't see what is nonsensical about Ganti's
statement. He says Kammas dominate Telugu Film Industry.
The Kamma names tend to end in 'Rao'. (I had heard that one
before from my Telugu friends.) So the names of many Telugu
Film people end in 'Rao'. Sounds okay to me. (I have no idea
what percentage of Telugu MDs are Rao's. But ...)
(The thread brings back memories of a Telugu fellow who
told some of us that we must not refer to Sharad Pawar
as Sharad-rao. He had been listening to our conversation
for 10-15 minutes even as his confusion mounted and it finally
achieved the critical mass for it to become indignation.)
BTW, is it Nimishrao Pachpurkar whom Ganti has marked
to carry on the tradition of Marathi MDs - Phulambrikar,
Mainkar, Chandekar, Korgaonkar, Davjekar, Chitalkar,
Hridaynath Mangeshkar, Lata 'Anand-ghan' Mangeshkar, et al ?
- dn
Srinivas Ganti
"Sreenivas Paruchuri" <sre...@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:3DA72D3F...@gmx.de...
> Srinivas Ganti wrote:
>
> > Chandamamma or Chandrudu in Telugu.btw Telugu is close to Sanskrit as
> > opposed to Tamil.
>
> Hmm! Sorry, if I sound rude, but how about getting some basic facts
> right!
> Well, but this is what most of the 'middle-class, educated' Telugus
> think about their own language. As a matter of fact, Telugu is closer to
> Tamil!!
Well u are misinterpreting my statement. What I meant is Telugu is closer to
Hindi
than Tamil is to Hindi. I am not taking about the closeness of Telugu and
Tamil here !!
sg.
Srinivas Ganti
Maybe my statement wasn't clear enugh !! What I meant is Telugu is closer to
Sanskrit than Tamil is to Sanskrit. (I wrote Hindi in place of Sanskrit).
So I
am writing that again.
sg.
UVR
> > saantamu= virtuous (different from its usage of "neighbouring" in "saamanta
> > raju" = "neighbouring king" )
>
> Doesn't "saama.nta raaju" mean a subordinate king in a feudal system?
> The kingdom of a "saama.nta raaju" actually belongs to or is conquered
> by the Emperor, who "lets" them rule their respective kingdoms after
> accepting taxes ("kappamu"). E.g. "harihara bukkaraayulu ballaaLuni
> saama.ntulu".
>
> Going by this meaning, "saama.ntamugala sati" would still mean
> virtuous wife; the virtue here being obedient/submissive.
Not necessarily. It could just mean that the wife 'controls'
part of the husband's "kingdom" -- which you could interpret
to mean his heart, his salary AND his home ;) The joke's on
the husband who STILL thinks he is a dhiimantuDu [brainiac :)].
> Or could it
> also mean the wife is in possession of a "saama.ntuDu", the husband?
> ;)
>
> --Shree
LOL ... good one! But methinks the correct term for such
a wise wife would be, "saama.ntuDugala sati" or indeed,
simply, "sati." The adjective is quite redundant, really ;)
-UVR.
UVR
>
> I am truly thankful to all those who have responded to
> this thread. Also, I must confess that I goofed up
> here. The song that I remembered and wrote about was
> very definitely the Tamil one UVR has mentioned. I
> must have seen the Tamil version on one of my brief
> sojourns in Madras. Anyway, thanks are due to SG
> and others who posted the lyrics of the Telugu song
> and also explained the meaning.
>
> I think somebody mentioned that the Tamil song too was
> sung by the same pair (AM Raja and P. Leela).
It was, indeed.
> I am glad UVR remembered his childhood when his mother
> sang this song as some sort of a lullaby. Now it can be
> realised why a total stranger to Tamil/Telugu still
> remembers this song after all these years. Great combi-
> nation of simplicity and melody. I have one question,
> though. Are the tunes in Tamil and Telugu versions the
> same ?
Yes, they are -- exactly the same. Infact, all the p-stats
are the same, except the lyricist. The Tamil song was written
by TH Ramaiah Doss (pron: daas).
[BTW, I didn't say "lullaby." She used to sing it as I lay
in her lap, but that's not the same thing, is it? :)]
> I am in full agreement with SG when he talks about Telugu,
> Bengali and Urdu being such sweet languages. I would add
> Persian (Farsi) to that list and also French. My first
> "exposure" to Telugu was from a friend in College who would
> sing Telugu songs for some of us. He had a fond phrase for
> his language : "Telugu is the Italian of the East".
I believe this phrase was coined by some westerner -- one
of my uncle used to say "Italian is the Telugu of the West" :))
> Being rather dense, I didn't quite get what UVR said about
> his mom, Leela (the singer) and another Leela. Probably,
> those who attend RMIM Meets regularly would have understood.
I'm sorry, this was a *hyuuuuuuj* typo on my part. What I
wanted to say was that both Mom and Lata are better singers
than Leela, and I initially had a slightly inflated opinion
of the Telugu song. However, today when I hear the Lata+
Hemant Kumar version, I find it (musically) just a tad
better than the Leela+AM Rajah version(s).
> And yes, UVR is more than welcome to send me, by e-mail,
> an Urdu rendition of the "Miss(i)amma" song/s, but not in
> iTrans !
Great! I'll work on it. Meanwhile, here are the lyrics of
the Tamil version of the song, since it *WAS* the version
you remembered! :)
BTW, I'm NOT a native Tamil speaker, so corrections to the
lyric are most welcome. And this time, I'm translating it
myself, so corrections to THAT are also welcome.
Yensoiy ;)
-UVR.
Film: Missiamma
Lyrics: TH Ramaiah Doss
Music: S. Rajeswara Rao
Singers: AM Rajah + Leela
AMR:
vaaraayO vennilaavE, keLaayO engaL kadhaiyE
vaaraayO vennilaavE
[Come down, O Moon, and listen to our story.]
AMR:
aghambaavam koNDa sathiyaaL arivaaL-uyarndhiDum pathi-daan
sathi-pathi virOdhamigavE sithaindhadhu idham tharum vaazhvE
{
I am the clever husband of a haughty wife --
Whose life has been shattered by marital strife
(vaazhvu sithaindhadhu: zindagii titar-bitar ho gaii)
}
Leela:
vaaraayO vennilaavE ...
vaak-kurimai thanda pathiyaaL vaazhndhiDavE vandha sathi naan
nambiDa seyvaar nEsam naDippadhellaam veLi vESham
{
I'm a wife who came to live with a husband who made promises
(ref: promises made around the marital fire)
He tries to convince me of this affections, but
It's all outward acting
}
AMR:
vaaraayO vennilaavE ...
than piDivaadham viDaadhu en manam pOl naDakkadhu
thamakkena edhuvum sollaadhu nammaiyum pEsa viDaadhu
{
Neither does she give up her headstrong opinions
Nor does she do as I would like her to
Neither does she say anything herself
Nor does she let me speak!
}
Leela:
vaaraayO vennilaavE ...
anudhinam seyvaar mODi agham agizhvaar pOraaDi
illaram ippaDi naDandhaal nallaramaavO nilavE?
{
Everyday he fights with me, and feels good inside!
If things are like this, O Moon, can life ever be good?
}
vaaraayO vennilaavE ...
UVR
> "Sreenivas Paruchuri" <sre...@gmx.de> wrote -
>
>>
>>>..... Rao at the end of their name. That has something to do with
>>>caste equations.
>>
>>This is really utter nonsense! "Rao" basically derives from
>>"raaja/raaya".
>>
>>Regards,
>>Sreenivas
>>
>
>
> Let me take your word about the origin of the word 'Rao'.
> But I still don't see what is nonsensical about Ganti's
> statement. He says Kammas dominate Telugu Film Industry.
> The Kamma names tend to end in 'Rao'. (I had heard that one
> before from my Telugu friends.) So the names of many Telugu
> Film people end in 'Rao'. Sounds okay to me. (I have no idea
> what percentage of Telugu MDs are Rao's. But ...)
The nonsensical part of that statement (not Ganti's, but
his friend's) is that "Rao has something to do with caste
equations." Even someone remotely familiar with Telugu
names will know that this is pure balderdash and has no
basis in fact. Rao is NOT a caste-related name like
Naidu/Nayudu, Reddy, Murthy, Sastry or Sarma are.
What is more nonsensical is that you are insisting on
arguing a point that makes no sense to argue. Ganti's
friend's assertion was probably born out of limited
observation coupled with ignorance about Telugu names.
Your argument appears to be based on simple headstrong
idiocy.
-UVR.
Afzal A. Khan
UVR wrote:
>
> "Afzal A. Khan" <il_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<3DA71565...@yahoo.com>...
> >
> > I am truly thankful to all those who have responded to
> > this thread. Also, I must confess that I goofed up
> > here. The song that I remembered and wrote about was
> > very definitely the Tamil one UVR has mentioned. I
> > must have seen the Tamil version on one of my brief
> > sojourns in Madras. Anyway, thanks are due to SG
> > and others who posted the lyrics of the Telugu song
> > and also explained the meaning.
> >
> > I think somebody mentioned that the Tamil song too was
> > sung by the same pair (AM Raja and P. Leela).
>
> It was, indeed.
>
> > I am glad UVR remembered his childhood when his mother
> > sang this song as some sort of a lullaby. Now it can be
> > realised why a total stranger to Tamil/Telugu still
> > remembers this song after all these years. Great combi-
> > nation of simplicity and melody. I have one question,
> > though. Are the tunes in Tamil and Telugu versions the
> > same ?
>
> Yes, they are -- exactly the same. Infact, all the p-stats
> are the same, except the lyricist. The Tamil song was written
> by TH Ramaiah Doss (pron: daas).
Correct me if I am wrong. But it seems the gentleman
was a Christian. My experience with people from the
South (particularly Kerala) is that Christians spell
the name Das in this fashion, e.g. Ramadoss. Also,
I recall that their pronunciation too was more on the
lines of the actual spelling rather than simply "Daas".
("Doss" = the "au" maatra in Devanagri). But all this
is digression.
> > Being rather dense, I didn't quite get what UVR said about
> > his mom, Leela (the singer) and another Leela. Probably,
> > those who attend RMIM Meets regularly would have understood.
>
> I'm sorry, this was a *hyuuuuuuj* typo on my part. What I
> wanted to say was that both Mom and Lata are better singers
> than Leela, and I initially had a slightly inflated opinion
> of the Telugu song. However, today when I hear the Lata+
> Hemant Kumar version, I find it (musically) just a tad
> better than the Leela+AM Rajah version(s).
As a general statement, it is even more than
axiomatic that Rafi and Lata were much better
singers than the other two. But I am inclined
to believe that the Tamil/Telugu song composition
was sweeter and more appealing than the Hemant
Kumar song in "Miss Mary". I am intrigued by your
feeling that the latter might have thought the
Tamil/Telugu tune as being too "Madrasi", even
though it has the notes of "Bhimpalas", a well-
recognized Hindustani Raaga.
>
> > And yes, UVR is more than welcome to send me, by e-mail,
> > an Urdu rendition of the "Miss(i)amma" song/s, but not in
> > iTrans !
>
> Great! I'll work on it. Meanwhile, here are the lyrics of
> the Tamil version of the song, since it *WAS* the version
> you remembered! :)
Thanks in advance.
>
> BTW, I'm NOT a native Tamil speaker, so corrections to the
> lyric are most welcome. And this time, I'm translating it
> myself, so corrections to THAT are also welcome.
>
> Yensoiy ;)
Now, who will translate this ? !
There is just one point that I would request you to
clear up. You have made a special note that "promises"
refer to the vows undertaken around the marital fire.
But there was no wedding as such in the movie. It was
all make-believe. Then why bring in the "marital vows" ?
Afzal
Srinivas Ganti
>UVR <u...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:9c085b63.02101...@posting.google.com...
> "Afzal A. Khan" <il_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<3DA71565...@yahoo.com>...
> >
> > I am truly thankful to all those who have responded to
> > this thread. Also, I must confess that I goofed up
> > here. The song that I remembered and wrote about was
> > very definitely the Tamil one UVR has mentioned. I
> > must have seen the Tamil version on one of my brief
> > sojourns in Madras. Anyway, thanks are due to SG
> > and others who posted the lyrics of the Telugu song
> > and also explained the meaning.
> >
>
> wanted to say was that both Mom and Lata are better singers
> than Leela, and I initially had a slightly inflated opinion
> of the Telugu song. However, today when I hear the Lata+
> Hemant Kumar version, I find it (musically) just a tad
> better than the Leela+AM Rajah version(s).
What ?? The Hindi version "o raat ke musafir" is by Rafi & Lata
and not Hemant & Lata !
Being a Rafian how cud u forget such a lovely Rafi song ? :)
Actually u said that at another place in the same thread but
no one caught u.
btw the biggest dissapointment when I saw Miss Mary was that
there was a 2 line Hemant snippet
"chand aur taare, saare ke saare
laake rakhduunga kadamom men tumhaare"
I eagerly awaited in anticipation of a fuller version of the song
but there wasn't any ...
sg.
naniwadekar
UVR <u...@usa.not> wrote -
> >
> > Let me take your word about the origin of the word 'Rao'.
> > But I still don't see what is nonsensical about Ganti's
> > statement. He says Kammas dominate Telugu Film Industry.
> > The Kamma names tend to end in 'Rao'. (I had heard that one
> > before from my Telugu friends.) So the names of many Telugu
> > Film people end in 'Rao'. Sounds okay to me. (I have no idea
> > what percentage of Telugu MDs are Rao's. But ...)
>
> The nonsensical part of that statement (not Ganti's, but
> his friend's) is that "Rao has something to do with caste
> equations." Even someone remotely familiar with Telugu
> names will know that this is pure balderdash and has no
> basis in fact. Rao is NOT a caste-related name like
> Naidu/Nayudu, Reddy, Murthy, Sastry or Sarma are.
>
UVR, why don't you read Ganti's post again, and this time
carefully? The statement that "Rao has something to do with
caste equations" is Ganti's. And when Ganti makes that statement
and when it agrees with what I had been told before by
another fellow from AP, I am going to believe it, right?
Over to Ganti. He had said "Rao has etc etc". Dr Paruchuri
and UVR say it is not correct. What does Ganti want to
say NOW?
(Just to make two obvious points : I didn't think Dr P's
comment about 'Rao-raajaa' and 'Rao' being a common Kamma
name (as I believed when I wrote that post) were mutually
exclusive. And I don't know what percentage of Telugu MDs
have names ending in 'Rao', nor what the caste-wise split-up
among those Rao-MDs is.)
- dn
Vinay
>
> Of course all languages have the usual four kinds of words (defined
> broadly)(tatsam, tadbhav, deshii, videshii) in various percentages.
>
> QUIZ:
>
> Name a Hindi song that has all 4 kinds of words in the mukh.Daa.
chandan sa badan, cha.nchal chitwan
dheere-se teraa ye muskaanaa
mujhe dosh na denaa jagwaalo.n
ho jaaoo.N agar mai.n deewaanaa
tatsam: cha.nchal, dosh
tadbhav: jag (from jagat), dheere (from dhairya > dheer)
desii: badan, chitwan
videshii: deewaanaa
This came very easy (in fact the very first I thought of), and (so) I
have a feeling that there should be many other such songs.
Vinay
news.verizon.net
"Vinay" <v...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f4f0fd2d.02101...@posting.google.com...
> Surjit Singh <surjit...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<3DA72FD3...@yahoo.com>...
> >
> > Of course all languages have the usual four kinds of words (defined
> > broadly)(tatsam, tadbhav, deshii, videshii) in various percentages.
> >
> > QUIZ:
> >
> > Name a Hindi song that has all 4 kinds of words in the mukh.Daa.
>
> chandan sa badan, cha.nchal chitwan
> dheere-se teraa ye muskaanaa
> mujhe dosh na denaa jagwaalo.n
> ho jaaoo.N agar mai.n deewaanaa
>
> tatsam: cha.nchal, dosh
> tadbhav: jag (from jagat), dheere (from dhairya > dheer)
> desii: badan, chitwan
Sorry for the goof-up..
'badan' is arabic and hence should be under videshii.
V
Shree
> Telugu is one the sweetest and most poetic languages. I would rate it second
> best (along with Bengali) and ofcourse Urdu gets the first place.
>
I would rate Sanskrit as number one; but what's the point - no one
speaks it.
I really like Telugu poetry (or prose, for that matter) but only when
stripped off most of its Sanskrit contamination - as in Vemana's
poetry.
--Shree
UVR
>
> UVR, why don't you read Ganti's post again, and this time
> carefully? The statement that "Rao has something to do with
> caste equations" is Ganti's.
I was giving Ganti the benefit of the doubt and reading the
first TWO lines of that paragraph as being said by his friend.
Note that if one does not do so, another one of Ganti's stmts
in the same paragraph becomes meaningless (in SPITE of being
actually correct): "... many Brahmins also do" [i.e., have Rao
in their names]. If (at least) two separate castes have this
name, how can it be an indicator of a specific caste, again
like Reddy, Naidu or Sarma?
It's like saying that "Singh" in a person's name indicates that
the person is Sikh. It does NO SUCH THING!
> And when Ganti makes that statement
> and when it agrees with what I had been told before by
> another fellow from AP, I am going to believe it, right?
"That statement," no matter how many people make it, is quite
incorrect and *provably* false. But sure, you can believe it.
You can believe whatever you want. We have seen above that
one of Ganti's statements is contradictory to another one from
his own post. It's up to you as to which one you want to
selectively discard.
> Over to Ganti. He had said "Rao has etc etc". Dr Paruchuri
> and UVR say it is not correct. What does Ganti want to
> say NOW?
Yes, Ganti, PLEASE come to your own defense.
> (Just to make two obvious points : I didn't think Dr P's
> comment about 'Rao-raajaa' and 'Rao' being a common Kamma
> name (as I believed when I wrote that post) were mutually
> exclusive.
No, but your argument that Rao is an indicator of someone's
Kamma-ness does NOT follow from that, except by using flawed
logic. And yet you're persistently arguing about it.
> And I don't know what percentage of Telugu MDs
> have names ending in 'Rao', nor what the caste-wise split-up
> among those Rao-MDs is.)
-UVR.
Surjit Singh
Vinay wrote:
Quite good. Great effort. But.
badan is persian and chitavan (according to my dictionary) comes from
chitra.
I think the deshii part is the hardest. My feeling is that to get deshii
one will have to go to a poet who does not use highfaluting language but
uses common houshold objects and words in his poetry, say gulazaar.
>
> Vinay
>
--
Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(atic), period.
http://films.hindi-movies-songs.com/
http://worldline.hindi-movies-songs.com/
Surjit Singh
UVR wrote:
> "naniwadekar" <not_thi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ao8fom$jiugo$1...@ID-75735.news.dfncis.de>...
>
<GONE>
> It's like saying that "Singh" in a person's name indicates that
> the person is Sikh. It does NO SUCH THING!
Of course, having singh in the name is neither necessary nor sufficient.
My wife, a sikh, is Harmesh Kaur.
>
<GONE>
>>
>
> -UVR.
UVR
>>Hemant Kumar version, I find it (musically) just a tad
>>better than the Leela+AM Rajah version(s).
>
> What ?? The Hindi version "o raat ke musafir" is by Rafi & Lata
> and not Hemant & Lata !
I really should proofread my posts before hitting the "post"
button :( This time I goofed up writing Lata+Rafi Hemant Kumar
version ... better than Leela+AM Rajah SRR version".
-UVR.
UVR
>
> UVR wrote:
>>The Tamil song was written by TH Ramaiah Doss (pron: daas).
>
> Correct me if I am wrong. But it seems the gentleman
> was a Christian. My experience with people from the
> South (particularly Kerala) is that Christians spell
> the name Das in this fashion, e.g. Ramadoss. Also,
> I recall that their pronunciation too was more on the
> lines of the actual spelling rather than simply "Daas".
> ("Doss" = the "au" maatra in Devanagri).
I don't know anything about Mr. Doss' religious affiliations.
>>Yensoiy ;)
>
> Now, who will translate this ? !
It's how one of those modern Tamil film actors says "Enjoy." :)
>>vaak-kurimai thanda pathiyaaL vaazhndhiDavE vandha sathi naan
>>nambiDa seyvaar nEsam naDippadhellaam veLi vESham
>>
>>{
>> I'm a wife who came to live with a husband who made promises
>> (ref: promises made around the marital fire)
>> He tries to convince me of this affections, but
>> It's all outward acting
>>}
>
> There is just one point that I would request you to
> clear up. You have made a special note that "promises"
> refer to the vows undertaken around the marital fire.
> But there was no wedding as such in the movie. It was
> all make-believe. Then why bring in the "marital vows" ?
Thanks for raising this point. We should probably ask someone to
help us with this.
As far as I know "vaak-kurimai thandha pathi" refers to "the
husband who made (marital) vows". But, like I said, I am far
from being a native Tamil speaker and would greatly appreciate
clarification on this point.
-UVR.
Sreenivas Paruchuri
could you pl. send me a note back door! Thanks in advance!
Regards,
Sreenivas
naniwadekar
UVR <u...@usa.net> wrote -
>
> You can believe whatever you want. We have seen above that
> one of Ganti's statements is contradictory to another one from
> his own post. It's up to you as to which one you want to
> selectively discard.
>
Ganti's statements are not contradictory. (Please note that I am
not saying anything about the 'provably false'ness of the statement.)
To quote his statements again :
"Most "kammas" have Rao at the end of their name. Many Brahmins
also do, but it is Kammas who dominate the film Industry. "
Here is a (hypothetical) statistical picture that would accommodate
his two statements which you are claiming to be contradictory.
Out of 3 thousand Kammas in AP, (say) 2.2 k are Rao's.
Remember, Ganti is saying that MOST Kammas are Rao's.
Out of 1 k Brahmins, many, (say) 200, are Rao's.
There are 40 MDs in Telugu Film Industry, 34 of them Rao's,
out of which 32 are Kammas.
Also remember that I was taking Ganti's word that 'most Kamma
names end with Rao' and most Rao's are Kammas. I had heard
these claims before from a Telugu fellow and none of the other
several Telugu fellows present there had questioned him etc etc etc.
- dn
Srinivas Ganti
>UVR <u...@usa.net> wrote
> Yes, Ganti, PLEASE come to your own defense.
In another post
>UVR wrote:
>I really should proofread my posts before hitting the "post"
>button
>Nani wrote :
>Ganti's statements are not contradictory. (Please note that I am
>not saying anything about the 'provably false'ness of the statement.)
>To quote his statements again :
>"Most "kammas" have Rao at the end of their name. Many Brahmins
>also do, but it is Kammas who dominate the film Industry. "
Yes UVR that "proofreading thing" happenns to everyone.
I did mean what Nani said above but my statement seems to be
false. I assumed that only Kamma's and Brahmins have Rao at the
end of their name.
sg.
UVR
> Hi Vinay:
>
>
> Vinay wrote:
>
>> Surjit Singh <surjit...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:<3DA72FD3...@yahoo.com>...
>>
>>> Of course all languages have the usual four kinds of words (defined
>>> broadly)(tatsam, tadbhav, deshii, videshii) in various percentages.
>>>
>>> QUIZ:
>>>
>>> Name a Hindi song that has all 4 kinds of words in the mukh.Daa.
>>>
>>
>> chandan sa badan, cha.nchal chitwan
>> dheere-se teraa ye muskaanaa
>> mujhe dosh na denaa jagwaalo.n ho jaaoo.N agar mai.n deewaanaa
>>
>> tatsam: cha.nchal, dosh
>> tadbhav: jag (from jagat), dheere (from dhairya > dheer)
>> desii: badan, chitwan
>> videshii: deewaanaa
>
>
> badan is persian and chitavan (according to my dictionary) comes from
> chitra.
>
> I think the deshii part is the hardest. My feeling is that to get deshii
> one will have to go to a poet who does not use highfaluting language but
> uses common houshold objects and words in his poetry, say gulazaar.
I think there are quite a few songs that have this feature, and they
are not just by Gulzar :)
(1) din Dhal jaaye, haay, raat na jaaye
tuu to na aaye, terii yaad sataaye
tatsam: din
tadbhav: raat, tuu, jaaye, aaye, sataaye
deshii: Dhal
videshii: yaad
(2) chhaa gaye baadal niil gagan par
ghul gayaa kajaraa saa.Njh Dhale
tatsam: niil, gagan
tadbhav: gayaa, kajaraa
deshii: Dhale
videshii: baadal
Ok, ok, you're looking for one by Gulzar, so here it is
(3) meraa kuchh saamaan tumhaare paas pa.Daa hai
saavan ke kuchh bhiige bhiige din rakkhe hai.n
aur mere ik Khat me.n lipaTii raat pa.Dii hai
vo raat bujhaa do meraa vo saamaan lauTaa do
tatsam: din
tadbhav: raat, saavan
desii: meraa, kuchh, vo, pa.Daa, lipaTii, lauTaa ...
videshii: saamaan, Khat
I'm sure other nettors will add to this list.
-UVR.
Afzal A. Khan
I think you are adding to the confusion, particularly
for people like me who know next to nothing about
"caste equations".
Your above statement suggests that, apart from Kammas
and Brahmins, there are other "castes" too who have
"Rao" at the end of their name. I suppose the
"percentages" will also undergo a change now !
Afzal
VSR...@hclinfinet.com
The line is like that but it should have been more sensible
with chandan "ka" badan?
What exactly he might mean by chandan "sa" badan?
> > dheere-se teraa ye muskaanaa
Why the dash "-" between dheere and se.
> > mujhe dosh na denaa jagwaalo.n
> > ho jaaoo.N agar mai.n deewaanaa
Isn't it
ho "jaa_e" agar "dil" deewaanaa
Then Dil is also videshii.
-Rawat
Srinivas Ganti
>Afzal A. Khan <il_...@yahoo.com> wrote
> > Yes UVR that "proofreading thing" happenns to everyone.
> > I did mean what Nani said above but my statement seems to be
> > false. I assumed that only Kamma's and Brahmins have Rao at the
> > end of their name.
> >
> > sg.
>
>
> I think you are adding to the confusion, particularly
> for people like me who know next to nothing about
> "caste equations".
>
> Your above statement suggests that, apart from Kammas
> and Brahmins, there are other "castes" too who have
> "Rao" at the end of their name. I suppose the
> "percentages" will also undergo a change now !
Well I guess we need to have greater resources at our disposal.
(not sure of online resources).One of my best friends (incidentally
he is a Marathi and he is not an RMIMer) has a book on the last
names of Marathi Brahmins. It classifies them into Desasth,
Konkanasth, Karade etc.
I don't think its appropriate to discuss cast Issues on RMIM.
So Sreenivas P., next time we talk lets go through this :)
Sticking to Music, here's a list of some Telugu Muisc directors
and there are a lots of Rao's among them.
(Some Tamil MD's have also made significant contribution to
Telugu films but I have excluded their names here).
Saluri Rajeswara Rao
Master Venu (what's his full name ?)
Ghantasala Venkateswara Rao
Susarla Dakshinamurthy
Pendyala Nageswara Rao
Adi Narayana Rao
M.D Parthasarathy
S.Hanumantha Rao
J.V Raghavulu
T.Chalapathi Rao
Prabhala Satyanarayana
Kopparapu Subba Rao
Chittor V.Nagaiah
Munuvanty Venkata Rao
Kodandapani
B.Narsimha Rao
S.M Subbaiah Naidu
Galipenchala Narsimha Rao
Ramesh Naidu
H.R Padmanabha Sastry
Ogirala Ramachandra Rao
Satyam
Chakravarthy
Akula narsimha Rao
P.Bhanumati
Nalinikantha Rao
T.V Raju
Ashwathama
A.Rama Rao
M.M Keeravani
sg.
Surajit A. Bose
"Srinivas Ganti" <g#a#n#t#i#s#r#i#@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think its appropriate to discuss cast Issues on RMIM.
I'm confused. You mean when we post songs to GEETanjali, we should
remove the "starring" field from the iTrans template? We should not
discuss on whom a certain song was picturised? Why?
-s
Srinivas Ganti
>Surajit A. Bose <psur...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:psurajit-D159B6...@news.fu-berlin.de...
Oh Surajit. I meant "Caste". Good catch :)
sg.
Surajit A. Bose
"Srinivas Ganti" <g#a#n#t#i#s#r#i#@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Surajit A. Bose <psur...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:psurajit-D159B6...@news.fu-berlin.de...
> > In article <aoas2r$kk07p$1...@ID-75004.news.dfncis.de>,
> > "Srinivas Ganti" <g#a#n#t#i#s#r#i#@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I don't think its appropriate to discuss cast Issues on RMIM.
> >
> > I'm confused. You mean when we post songs to GEETanjali, we should
> > remove the "starring" field from the iTrans template? We should not
> > discuss on whom a certain song was picturised? Why?
>
>
> Oh Surajit. I meant "Caste".
Damn, that is SO less interesting ....
-s
Afzal A. Khan
I know you couldn't resist it.
But if we keep latching on to typos, we would add
considerably to that list of Longest Threads that
Rawat was talking about.
Afzal
UVR
>
> Sticking to Music, here's a list of some Telugu Muisc directors
> and there are a lots of Rao's among them.
>
> (Some Tamil MD's have also made significant contribution to
> Telugu films but I have excluded their names here).
You left out Emani Sankara Sastry. Wasn't MD Parthasarathy
a Tamilian?
Also, has M. Balamurali Krishna scored the music for any
Telugu films?
(Chittor V. Nagaiah => Chittoor V. Nagaiah)