Some Good Music.....
da...@aslvx1.sugar-land.anadrill.slb.com
Since the time I heard Suresh Wadkar's "seenay me jalan, aankhon me toofan..." I became a Big fan of his music.
Recently I came across a terrific album, Suresh Wadkar & Usha Mangeshkar,
songs of Tagore (Rabindrasangeet)....just plain beautiful. Particularly
the songs "Pagli Hawaa, Badrayaa Din, Paagal Mera Man Jagay Ray...", or
"Aaj RimJhim Mukhrit Badri Din..." or, "Choti Choti ye baaten, zara zara
si chuwan..".....Absolutely fabulous. Wonder who did the translations?
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED
>Hi fellow Rmim(er)s,
>
>Since the time I heard Suresh Wadkar's "seenay me jalan, aankhon me toofan..." >I became a Big fan of his music.
>Recently I came across a terrific album, Suresh Wadkar & Usha Mangeshkar,
>songs of Tagore (Rabindrasangeet)....just plain beautiful. Particularly
Another melodious sWadkar/uMangeshkar duet is "Shaam rangin hui hai, tere aanchal ki tarah, surmaee rang saja hai, tere kaajal ki tarah....". But
for his accent, Suresh Wadkar has sung some nice songs especially in
the movie Prem Rog. I am especially fond of the duet "Meri qismat me tu nahin
shaed, kyun tera intezaar karta hun....". He however sounded terrible in the
title song. These guys don't seem to be able to pour emotions into their songs.
Antother highly discussed song on RMIM is the "Ek ladki ko dekha to aisa laga.."
from 1942:ALS. It seems as if Kumar Sanu is sitting with a lab book in his
hand and jotting down the readings from an instrument which records his reactions upon seeing the ladki! God, no trace of emotions at all! Just compare this with the similar love songs of yesteryears like Rafi's "Kahin ek masoom
nazuk si ladki...." or KK's "Phoolon ke rang se dil ki kalam se...." or even
Talat's "Main dil hun ek armaan bhara....". Ok, I agree that singers like
those will never come again, but I just can't imagine why a country like India
can't produce a singer better than kSanu. And the current music directors? The less said about them the better.
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
Hemant Varma
: In article <3bgce6$h...@sndsu1.sinet.slb.com>, da...@aslvx1.sugar-land.anadrill.slb.com writes:
: >Hi fellow Rmim(er)s,
: >
: >Since the time I heard Suresh Wadkar's "seenay me jalan, aankhon me toofan..." >I became a Big fan of his music.
: >Recently I came across a terrific album, Suresh Wadkar & Usha Mangeshkar,
: >songs of Tagore (Rabindrasangeet)....just plain beautiful. Particularly
: Another melodious sWadkar/uMangeshkar duet is "Shaam rangin hui hai, tere aanchal ki tarah, surmaee rang saja hai, tere kaajal ki tarah....". But
: for his accent, Suresh Wadkar has sung some nice songs especially in
: the movie Prem Rog. I am especially fond of the duet "Meri qismat me tu nahin
It is sad state of affairs and Naushad in a recent interview in
India West the Indian Newspaper here in Calif. said that the difference
between the singers and MD's of this generation and the greats of
yesteryears is that the modern singers trained themselves by listening
to music rather than actually working hard on their singing abilities
and style. They spend most of their time trying to perfect some aspect
of their singing that mimics only partially the style of some of the
golden greats. The modern MD's don't really create music, they only
do rehashes and adaptations (poor ones) and so the music is not fresh
sounding because it is not fresh. Riyaz is what the modern singers are
lacking and they don't want to 'waste' time on that since they are
making money anyways. You all must have now begun to already feel the
monotonity in Alka Yagnik's or K Sanu's singing and do not YET feel
that in ASHA's voice, which is because of the fact that ASHA continued
to evolve as a singer over the years through hard work where as
KSAnu and CO remain where they were the day they entered the film
industry which was barely 5 years ago. ...
Hemant
:
x3167
tere aanchal ki tarah, surmaee rang saja hai, tere kaajal ki tarah....".
But
> : for his accent, Suresh Wadkar has sung some nice songs especially in
> : the movie Prem Rog. I am especially fond of the duet "Meri qismat me
tu nahin
>
>
>
> It is sad state of affairs and Naushad in a recent interview in
> India West the Indian Newspaper here in Calif. said that the difference
> between the singers and MD's of this generation and the greats of
> yesteryears is that the modern singers trained themselves by listening
> to music rather than actually working hard on their singing abilities
> and style. They spend most of their time trying to perfect some aspect
> of their singing that mimics only partially the style of some of the
> golden greats. The modern MD's don't really create music, they only
> do rehashes and adaptations (poor ones) and so the music is not fresh
> sounding because it is not fresh. Riyaz is what the modern singers are
> lacking and they don't want to 'waste' time on that since they are
> making money anyways. You all must have now begun to already feel the
> monotonity in Alka Yagnik's or K Sanu's singing and do not YET feel
> that in ASHA's voice, which is because of the fact that ASHA continued
> to evolve as a singer over the years through hard work where as
> KSAnu and CO remain where they were the day they entered the film
> industry which was barely 5 years ago. ...
>
>
> Hemant
>
> :
I too have tried unsuccessfully to find songs these days that I would
like to remember, say, 5 years from now. I do believe in being open
to the changes in music, but changes that are good and not merely changes
for the sake of changes. Let me give some examples.
Before I proceed I do wish to acknowledge that I do not expect everyone
to agree with me. Everyone has a different choice, so whatever follows
below is merely my opinion.
When I heard Bappi's "disco" numbers of the mid 80s, I used to
observe one thing without fail, and that is, the lyrics and the music
were not related. If the lyrics of the song were seductive, the music
was "absurd" (again, in my opinion). I am not even criticizing his
plagiarism - that is a separate topic in itself. Take the example of the
song "Raat baki baat baki.." from Namakhalal. I still do not know which
category that song belongs to (again, to me it is not relevant how popular
this song became. IMHO, a lot (not all) of the music after '85 was
on similar lines). Now, to compare such a typical Bappi song to another
seductive song by some of the accomplished directors leaves me feeling
that the lyrics and the music succeed in creating the intended mood. A
few examples:
1. Raat akeli hai ( Asha from a film (?) with music scored by SD Burman)
2. Nahin Nahin abhi nahin (Kishore + Asha, Jawani Diwani - RD Burman)
3. Husn ke lakhon rang (Asha from Johny Mera Naam, Kalyanji-Anandji)
4. Aao huzoor tumko sitaron mein (Asha from Kismat, OP Nayyar).
5. Roop tera mastaana (Kishore, Aradhana, SD Burman).
.
.
.
The list could be endless and could include many other directors. The
main observation that I make after listening to such songs is that the
lyrics and the music create the same mood. This is where I find the
present day music (again, most of it, not all) is totally hollow. I do not
find the romantic songs succeeding in creating an atmosphere (like Mere
Sapnon ki raani, Vada karle Saajana etc.) nor the sad songs creating
the sombre mood (Kahin door jab din dhal jaaye, Zindagi ka safar, Zindagi
kya hai gam ka dariya hai, Aaj puraani yadon....).
I am even willing to accept for a moment the rampant copying MDs engage
today (while the senior MDs too copied here and there, there's was
limited). But even then they fail to my expectations. Even their copying
ability leaves a lot to be desired.
Another observation I made is that (generally) good music from a failed
movie is rarely accepted, or is soon forgotten, and poor quality music
from hit/superhit movies gets to the racks of the numerous audio-cassette
vendors. (It may be argued that good music is an essential, if not
mandatory, ingredient for a hit movie, but I do not wish to go into that).
It will be interesting to hear from people about their choicest songs
from the last few years. I am sure there are some excellent songs composed
today too, and I would welcome adding them to my collection. Also, it may
be of interest to some at least to know what someone liked about a song.
(The aspect of creating a mood is just one part. Some songs are popular for
their orchestration, some for the style of singing, etc. etc.)
A-music-lover-in-search-for-good-music-in-the-90s
Ramesh Hariharan
>Hi fellow Rmim(er)s,
>
>Since the time I heard Suresh Wadkar's "seenay me jalan, aankhon me toofan..." I became a Big fan of his music.
What movie is this song from ? I agree Suresh Wadkar has a special
voice.
--
Ramesh Hariharan, Princeton U.
Nadiya chale chale re dhara Chanda chale chale re tara
Tujhko chalna hoga Tujhko chalna hoga Tujhko chalna hoga
Srinivasa R Raghavan
In article <sdhanda-3011...@sdhanda-mac.qualcomm.com>, sdh...@qualcomm.com (x3167) writes:
> >
> > It is sad state of affairs and Naushad in a recent interview in
> > India West the Indian Newspaper here in Calif. said that the difference
> > between the singers and MD's of this generation and the greats of
> > yesteryears is that the modern singers trained themselves by listening
> > to music rather than actually working hard on their singing abilities
> > and style.
i think we all (or at least most of us) agree that the songs of today don't
have that charm, that emotion, that... mysterious qualities that make the
songs from yesteryears so memorable. one reason given for this is
the incompetence of today's MDs. secondly, the fact that the singers believe in quickies -
very little rehearsal, lack a distinctive style etc.
one other factor that i would like to highlight is the changing tastes of the
public, which is reflected in the requirements imposed by the producer/directore
on the MD.
rememmber that LP is still around - the same LP who gave us _Woh jab
yaad aaye_ , _Aap ke anurodh pe_ and so on. OP Nayyar is still giving music;
even Naushad is still trying his hand at it. not to mention the
immortal RD Burman.
so if all these greats are/were still around in the 80s - 90s, why does *EVEN*
their music not sound as inspired as it did in the 60s-70s? and some of these
songs have been sung by the very same Lata, Asha etc., who have given us those
earlier gems.
the reason, IMO is simple: today's MDs are told to produce songs which are
*CATCHY*. supposedly, u should be able to hear it once and then hum along.
hence we get the _Ek do teens_, the _Oye oyes_ etc. but a good tune, or even
a catchy tune does not a great song make!
if RDB had composed a _Chingari koi bhadke_ for e.g, for
one of today's big budget movies, he would have been instructed to go back to
the 'drawing board' and come up with something like _Ae ji oh ji_ or some such
gibberish.
that is why we see some of the memorable music of the late 80s and the 90s
coming from low budget movies. personally i think that songs like
_Dil hum hum kare_, from Rudaali or _Katra katra_ from Ijaazat would remain
popular several years from now. but i am quite sure that i would never listen
to a tape of Baazigar or Tezaab in the year 2000! only in low budget films
is the MD given the leeway to experiment, without the restrictions that
each and every song has to pander to the tastes of the public.
repeat value is often
gained by increasing the complexity of the song. this is not to say that only
songs based more on classical music survive the test of time. the point is
that if the only attraction of the song is that it has a catchy tune,
espescially if it doesn't have meaningful lyrics, it would fade from memory
very soon. nevertheless,it may well enjoy immense short-term popularity.
name ten of your favourite songs from yesteryears. i will wager that *ALL*
of them will have something more than a simple, foot-stomping tune.
> > Riyaz is what the modern singers are
> > lacking and they don't want to 'waste' time on that since they are
> > making money anyways. You all must have now begun to already feel the
> > monotonity in Alka Yagnik's or K Sanu's singing and do not YET feel
> > that in ASHA's voice, which is because of the fact that ASHA continued
> > to evolve as a singer over the years through hard work where as
> > KSAnu and CO remain where they were the day they entered the film
> > industry which was barely 5 years ago. ...
i have to agree wholeheartedly with this contention, that today's singers are
incapable of adding emotion to a song even when they get a chance to do so.
the example of _Ek ladki ko dekha_ was given earlier - methinks it is apt.
the song sounded very sweet the first few times one listened to it, largely
because of the tune, but after a time, KSanu's voice starts to bug.
on the other hand, what could Asha or Lata have done with _Ek do teen_? IMO
it would still have lost its popularity and repeat value, no matter who had
sung it. the same holds for the disco songs dished out by Bappi Lahiri -
despite the seductive voice of Asha etc..
> I too have tried unsuccessfully to find songs these days that I would
> like to remember, say, 5 years from now. I do believe in being open
> to the changes in music, but changes that are good and not merely changes
> for the sake of changes.
i agree! i would not like to be biased against today's music simply because
'old is gold' and that sort of thing. nostalgia for the sake of nostalgia
is bad. i am perfectly willing to give the latest music a try - but i can't
help making those inevitable comparisons with the golden oldies!
> The
> main observation that I make after listening to such songs is that the
> lyrics and the music create the same mood. This is where I find the
> present day music (again, most of it, not all) is totally hollow. I do not
> find the romantic songs succeeding in creating an atmosphere (like Mere
> Sapnon ki raani, Vada karle Saajana etc.) nor the sad songs creating
> the sombre mood (Kahin door jab din dhal jaaye, Zindagi ka safar, Zindagi
> kya hai gam ka dariya hai, Aaj puraani yadon....).
>
excellent point! every time Kumar Sanu sings a 'dard bhare' song, he sounds
exactly the same!
even in the films, the situations seem so artificial. the
mood of the song is rarely enhanced by its enactment on screen.
in 1942_ALS, each song seems to be like an independent 'music video'. the
romance was glossed over so much that, one would think the lovers came
together briefly, sang a song and then disappeared into the dark!
srinivas
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED
In article <3bmefc$2...@taco.cc.ncsu.edu>, srra...@eos.ncsu.edu (Srinivasa R Rag
havan) writes:
>
>
>In article <sdhanda-3011...@sdhanda-mac.qualcomm.com>, sdhanda@qualcom
m.com (x3167) writes:
>i think we all (or at least most of us) agree that the songs of today don't
>have that charm, that emotion, that... mysterious qualities that make the
>songs from yesteryears so memorable. one reason given for this is
>the incompetence of today's MDs. secondly, the fact that the singers believe in
> quickies -very little rehearsal, lack a distinctive style etc.
>
>one other factor that i would like to highlight is the changing tastes of the
>public, which is reflected in the requirements imposed by the producer/director
>on the MD.
I beg to differ here. You cannot blame the public's taste for the lack of
talent among the current MD's and singers. As Naushad quite rightly pointed
out in the interview posted on RMIM earlier, a music director ought to be able
to raise the public's taste rather than fall a prey to it. This indeed is a
difficult task and, as one can observe these days, well beyond the scope of
the current MD's.
>rememmber that LP is still around - the same LP who gave us _Woh jab
>yaad aaye_ , _Aap ke anurodh pe_ and so on. OP Nayyar is still giving music;
>even Naushad is still trying his hand at it. not to mention the
>immortal RD Burman.
Well, one ought to understand that just like sportsmen, music directors also
have a phase in their career during which they perform best. After that phase
is over, there is nowhere else to go but down. The duration of that peak phase
depends on the person. For some it's short, while for others it
lasts over a decade or two. All the MD's mentioned above are well beyond their
prime. So, it's unfair to expect the same quality of music from them in the
90's as they delivered in the 50's, 60's or even the 70's.
>so if all these greats are/were still around in the 80s - 90s, why does *EVEN*
>their music not sound as inspired as it did in the 60s-70s? and some of these
As I said above, u can't expect any MD to perform consistently thro'out his
entire life.
>songs have been sung by the very same Lata, Asha etc., who have given us those
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It's certainly not the "very same Lata". Just as the melody has gone out of
the old MDs' tunes, so has the quality of Lata's voice. It's deteriorated to
such an extent, that even her staunch fans (me included) admit that Lata is way
beyond her best. However, I do agree that Asha has still maintained the quality
of her voice very well.
>the reason, IMO is simple: today's MDs are told to produce songs which are
>*CATCHY*. supposedly, u should be able to hear it once and then hum along.
>hence we get the _Ek do teens_, the _Oye oyes_ etc. but a good tune, or even
>a catchy tune does not a great song make!
But a catchy tune does not an utterly forgettable song make either! It's not
necessary that the two have to be mutually exclusive. There are a lot of
catchy tunes from the 50-70's which are still popular. Take for instance, the
song "Pyaar kiya to Darna kya...." It's got a very catchy tune, and one can
still find people snapping their fingers along with the song in the theatres.
Yet, melody and quality of music are not sacrificed in this composition.
O.P.Nayyar was a music director who thrived on catchy tunes. And his
songs are still popular. Even C.Ramachandra had a flair for catchy tunes. His
compositions such as "Shola jo bhaRke dil mera dhaRke...", "Gore gore O banke
chhore...." and "Aana meri jaan, meri jaan Sunday Sunday...." are immortal. It
was common to have songs filmed on comedians in those days. S.D.Burman managed
to squeeze in a catchy "Sar jo tera chakraae ya dil Dooba jaae..." amid all
those serious numbers in Pyaasa. And the MD's cud afford to do it because the
singers were talented and possessed a wide range. The same Rafi sang both "Sar
jo tera chakraae.." for good old Johnny and "Ye duniya agar mil bhi jaae to
kya hai..." for the serious and sober Guru Dutt. And both these songs are
still etched in the public memory. So, the problem is not with the tunes being
catchy. It is with the MD's who are not able to maintain a certain level of
quality in their compositions.
>if RDB had composed a _Chingari koi bhadke_ for e.g, for
>one of today's big budget movies, he would have been instructed to go back to
>the 'drawing board' and come up with something like _Ae ji oh ji_ or some such
>gibberish.
If good old Bappi could insert the KK gem "Manzilen apni jagah hain raaste
apni jagah...." in a mega-masala movie such as Namak Halaal, then why can't it
be done t'day ? Moreover, the focus has again shifted towards romantic movies
which offer an unlimited gamut for soft and melodious tunes.
>that if the only attraction of the song is that it has a catchy tune,
>espescially if it doesn't have meaningful lyrics, it would fade from memory
Yes, the lack of good lyrics is a valid point. It has certainly contributed to
the decline of filmi music. But again, LP, RD et al. managed pretty well with
an ordinary lyricist such as Anand Bakshi. Consider the following lines from
the song "Chhup gae saare nazaar oye kya baat ho gaee...". They wud make even
Sameer look like a Sahir compared to Anand Bakshi:
"ChhoR na baiyyan
PaRun tere paiyyan
Taaron ki chhaiyyan
Me saiyyan..."
In those days, LP and RD managed to compose sweet-sounding tunes for even such
literary masterpieces. And then, the singers were talented enough to carry the
song on their own. For instance, in the song "Achha to hum chalte hain...",
but for the perfect rendition by KK and Lata, there's hardly anything else. I
shudder to think how this song wud sound in kSanu and aPodwal's voice.
>name ten of your favourite songs from yesteryears. i will wager that *ALL*
>of them will have something more than a simple, foot-stomping tune.
Mais oui, 'cause "Hain sab se madhur woh geet jinhe hum dard ke sur me gaate
hain ..." :-) But, in those days a foot-stomping tune was NOT composed at the
expense of quality as it is done today.
>the example of _Ek ladki ko dekha_ was given earlier - methinks it is apt.
>the song sounded very sweet the first few times one listened to it, largely
>because of the tune, but after a time, KSanu's voice starts to bug.
Glad that u agree..
>on the other hand, what could Asha or Lata have done with _Ek do teen_? IMO
>it would still have lost its popularity and repeat value, no matter who had
Yup, I agree that neither Asha nor Lata cud've helped 1-2-3 achieve
immortality, but KK wud definitely have added a new dimension to "Ek ladki ko
dekha to aisa laga....". The tune's good, but kSanu's voice is enough a factor
to pull the song down.
>is bad. i am perfectly willing to give the latest music a try - but i can't
>help making those inevitable comparisons with the golden oldies!
I personally have lost hope. I don't think film music will ever be the same
again. But, I seek solace in the fact that there are enough olden goldies to
last me till I become an oldie myself :-)
>> The
>> main observation that I make after listening to such songs is that the
>> lyrics and the music create the same mood. This is where I find the
>> present day music (again, most of it, not all) is totally hollow. I do not
>> find the romantic songs succeeding in creating an atmosphere (like Mere
>> Sapnon ki raani, Vada karle Saajana etc.) nor the sad songs creating
>> the sombre mood (Kahin door jab din dhal jaaye, Zindagi ka safar, Zindagi
>> kya hai gam ka dariya hai, Aaj puraani yadon....).
>>
>
>excellent point! every time Kumar Sanu sings a 'dard bhare' song, he sounds
>exactly the same!
Kumar Sanu sounds "dard bhara" no matter what he sings :-) I think the
observation that the songs don't create the right mood is very true. The old
MD's used to capture the mood by using the right instruments at the right
time. Perhaps, the worst thing that happened to film music was the
introduction of the synthesizer. It sounds so damn artificial. The beauty of a
flute or a sitar just cannot be matched by the notes of the synthesizer. To
give an analogy, the synthesizer is like a typewritten memo while the
traditional instruments are like a handwritten note, which adds a personal
touch.
>srinivas
Thanks for the nice post. Although our views differ, it's great to
discuss music on RMIM for a change.
Finally, my views reg. the old vs. new film music are aptly desribed by the
following song:
"Guzra hua zamaana aata nahin dubaara, haafiz KHuda tumhaara...."
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)....glad to see music-related posts on RMIM.
*******************************************************************************
Lines for the day:
Garm saanson me chupe raaz bataaun kisko
Narm honTon me dabi baat kise pesh karun
Sahir in "NaGHma-o-sher ki sauGHaat kise pesh karun...."
*******************************************************************************
Mahesh Chaubal
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED <sm...@Lehigh.EDU> wrote:
>If good old Bappi could insert the KK gem "Manzilen apni jagah hain raaste
>apni jagah...." in a mega-masala movie such as Namak Halaal, then why can't it
SHARAABI
(Sorry to nitpick on a nice article, but you dont get to catch sami's goofs
too often)
Nice articles by sdhana(??), srinivas and sami. i do agree that one of the
major factors in today's deteriorated standards of music is the advent of
the synthesizer. About sami's point on the music directors being able to
stir the interest of public, rather than bending to their standards... I dont
queit agree with that. One shouldnt forget that the music director *has* to
finally bend to their annadaata, the producers, and if the producers want
catchy tunes, the MDs have to cater to their demands. In one of the interviews,
L-P had boasted about their ability to make 'catchy' tunes with their
'ek-do-teen' and 'oye oye'. That is certainly an example of a capable MD
bending to the public demand.
Hence, as srinivas pointed out, it is only in art-movies that the MDs get a
leeway to experiment..
Some of the newer soundtracks which I think would stay popular for a long
time:-
1. Ijaazat
2. Masoom
3. Sharaabi
4. Lekin
5. QSQT (maybe a controversial choice)
Out of these, 1,2 and 4 were creative 'cos of a great MD/Lyricist combo,
5 becos of a refreshingly new team, 3.. just a miracle (since it came from
Bappi dude)
=Mahesh=
Reeta Sinha
: What movie is this song from ? I agree Suresh Wadkar has a special
: voice.
Gaman.
reeta
Ramesh Hariharan
>In article <3bmefc$2...@taco.cc.ncsu.edu>, srra...@eos.ncsu.edu (Srinivasa R Rag >havan) writes:
>>In article <sdhanda-3011...@sdhanda-mac.qualcomm.com>, sdhanda@qualcom >m.com (x3167) writes:
>
>>one other factor that i would like to highlight is the changing tastes of the
>>public, which is reflected in the requirements imposed by the producer/director >>on the MD.
>
>I beg to differ here. You cannot blame the public's taste for the lack of
>talent among the current MD's and singers. As Naushad quite rightly pointed
>out in the interview posted on RMIM earlier, a music director ought to be able
>to raise the public's taste rather than fall a prey to it. This indeed is a
>difficult task and, as one can observe these days, well beyond the scope of
>the current MD's.
I disagree with Sami on this point and agree with Sanjay in that
people's standards have gone down severely... if everyone refuses to
watch a movie like Aankhen (1993), the directors will start doing some
thinking. Why do all the lousy lyrics come to film songs .. We DON'T
have a shortage of good lyricist.... the Ghazal singers like Ghulam Ali
and Jagjit Singh have consistently high standards. We don't see the good
musicians switching over from the classical side because nobody WANTS
them on the film side. Did the great music directors like Naushad and SDB
come directly into films or after a good classical training ? Well they
opted for film music because people were ready to listen to their
compositions.
>>rememmber that LP is still around - the same LP who gave us _Woh jab
>>yaad aaye_ , _Aap ke anurodh pe_ and so on. OP Nayyar is still giving music;
Gimme a break ... LP have personified mediocrity. The ratio of number
of good songs to the TOTAL # of songs they have directed is pathetic.
>Well, one ought to understand that just like sportsmen, music directors also
>have a phase in their career during which they perform best. After that phase
>is over, there is nowhere else to go but down. The duration of that peak phase
>depends on the person. For some it's short, while for others it
>lasts over a decade or two. All the MD's mentioned above are well beyond their
>prime. So, it's unfair to expect the same quality of music from them in the
>90's as they delivered in the 50's, 60's or even the 70's.
Good point ! Never thought of this before.
>It's certainly not the "very same Lata". Just as the melody has gone out of
>the old MDs' tunes, so has the quality of Lata's voice. It's deteriorated to
>such an extent, that even her staunch fans (me included) admit that Lata is way
>beyond her best. However, I do agree that Asha has still maintained the quality
>of her voice very well.
But she should NOT be doing live concerts at this age.. she gets so
tired after each song that Sudesh Bhosale and Mhd Aziz were REQUIRED to
give her a break after every song. Don't get me wrong.. I think very
highly of her as a singer and she is still extremely versatile. I just
have a problem with an artist not being able to go the distance full
steam.
(excellent discussion about catchy numbers by Sami deleted)
>again. But, I seek solace in the fact that there are enough olden goldies to
>last me till I become an oldie myself :-)
Join the gang !
>
>Kumar Sanu sounds "dard bhara" no matter what he sings :-) I think the
Haahahahahahaha !
Jagat Mavani
|> Kumar Sanu sounds "dard bhara" no matter what he sings :-) I think the
|> observation that the songs don't create the right mood is very true. The old
|> MD's used to capture the mood by using the right instruments at the right
|> time. Perhaps, the worst thing that happened to film music was the
|> introduction of the synthesizer. It sounds so damn artificial. The beauty of a
|> flute or a sitar just cannot be matched by the notes of the synthesizer. To
|> give an analogy, the synthesizer is like a typewritten memo while the
|> traditional instruments are like a handwritten note, which adds a personal
|> touch.
|>
|> >srinivas
|>
|> Thanks for the nice post. Although our views differ, it's great to
|> discuss music on RMIM for a change.
|>
|> Finally, my views reg. the old vs. new film music are aptly desribed by the
|> following song:
|>
|> "Guzra hua zamaana aata nahin dubaara, haafiz KHuda tumhaara...."
|>
|> Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)....glad to see music-related posts on RMIM.
|>
|> *******************************************************************************
|> Lines for the day:
|>
|> Garm saanson me chupe raaz bataaun kisko
|> Narm honTon me dabi baat kise pesh karun
|>
|> Sahir in "NaGHma-o-sher ki sauGHaat kise pesh karun...."
|> *******************************************************************************
Along with the synthesizer, the other artificial effect is the one produced by using
Digital siginal processors. (used to create echo sound as well as other effects)
You only have to listen carefully to 'Ek ladki ko dekha to aisa laga..." to understand
how Kumar Shanu's voice has been synthesized.
-Jagat (a vacuum tube era music fan).
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED
>In article <3bnb7c$1h...@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu> sm...@Lehigh.EDU (SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED) writes: >
>I beg to differ here. You cannot blame the public's taste for the lack of
>>talent among the current MD's and singers. As Naushad quite rightly pointed
>>out in the interview posted on RMIM earlier, a music director ought to be able
>>to raise the public's taste rather than fall a prey to it. This indeed is a
>>difficult task and, as one can observe these days, well beyond the scope of
>>the current MD's.
>
>
>I disagree with Sami on this point and agree with Sanjay in that
>people's standards have gone down severely... if everyone refuses to
I think you, and the other RMIMers who sent me e-mail, misunderstood me here. I am not disputing the fact the the people's taste has deteriorated. I am
however stating that the MD needn't stoop to the public's level in order to make
a song popular. It's not as if the public will like a song *only* if it's
terrible from the music point of view (ie. with the singers going besura, etc)
MD's of the past have always churned out popular tunes without compromising
quality. My Q is, why can't the current MD's do that ?
If you compare songs from films such as QSQT or Dil Hai ke Maanta Nahin, u'll
find that the situation in the movie isn't much different from that in a lot
of Rajesh Khanna movies. So, why can't we have tunes which we used to have during the RDB era ??
>and Jagjit Singh have consistently high standards. We don't see the good
>musicians switching over from the classical side because nobody WANTS
>them on the film side.
I agree with this point..... Maybe a song such as "Man taRapat Hari darshan ko
aaj...." might not be very popular in today's films. But, songs such as
"Phoolon ke rang se, dil ki kalam se..." or even "Sau saal pehle mujhe tumse
pyaar tha...." wud definitely have become popular even if they were released
today.
Instead of having songs such as "Kehdo ke tum ho meri varna, jeena nahin mujhe
hai marna...." why can't we have songs like "Tere bina zindagi se koi, shikwa
to nahin..." ?
>>again. But, I seek solace in the fact that there are enough olden goldies to
>>last me till I become an oldie myself :-)
>
>Join the gang !
:-)
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
> Ramesh Hariharan, Princeton U.
Madhav Kalaga
>
> If you compare songs from films such as QSQT or Dil Hai ke Maanta Nahin, u'll
> find that the situation in the movie isn't much different from that in a lot
> of Rajesh Khanna movies. So, why can't we have tunes which we used to have during the RDB era ??
>
>
> I agree with this point..... Maybe a song such as "Man taRapat Hari darshan ko
> aaj...." might not be very popular in today's films. But, songs such as
> "Phoolon ke rang se, dil ki kalam se..." or even "Sau saal pehle mujhe tumse
> pyaar tha...." wud definitely have become popular even if they were released
> today.
Yes! I agree with this sentiment. The reason for the MDs not
coming up with good music might be the fact that they arerequired to
churn out tunes so fast that the end product is of very bad
quality. Also a good knowledge of classical music is lacking I guess.
>
> Instead of having songs such as "Kehdo ke tum ho meri varna, jeena nahin mujhe
> hai marna...." why can't we have songs like "Tere bina zindagi se koi, shikwa
> to nahin..." ?
But this comparison is not fair, Sami.
you comparing a very ordinary song to a very good one.
Even during those times songs like "Achcha to Hum Chalte hain"
which have mostly a rendition of lines rather than singing of lyrics.
I think we say that this song from Tezaab is as good or bad as
"Achcha to hum chalte hain"
>
Madhav
>
> Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Madhav Kalaga Department of Chemical Engg.
Arizona State University
(620)-965-3313 (office)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Madhav Kalaga
> On 6 Dec 1994, SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED wrote:
>
> If you compare songs from films such as QSQT or Dil Hai ke Maanta Nahin, u'll
> find that the situation in the movie isn't much different from that in a lot
> of Rajesh Khanna movies. So, why can't we have tunes which we used to have during the RDB era ??
>
>
> I agree with this point..... Maybe a song such as "Man taRapat Hari darshan ko
> aaj...." might not be very popular in today's films. But, songs such as
> "Phoolon ke rang se, dil ki kalam se..." or even "Sau saal pehle mujhe tumse
> pyaar tha...." wud definitely have become popular even if they were released
> today.
Yes! I agree with this sentiment. The reason for the MDs not
coming up with good music might be the fact that they arerequired to
churn out tunes so fast that the end product is of very bad
quality. Also a good knowledge of classical music is lacking I guess.
> Instead of having songs such as "Kehdo ke tum ho meri varna, jeena nahin mujhe
> hai marna...." why can't we have songs like "Tere bina zindagi se koi, shikwa
> to nahin..." ?
But this comparison is not fair, Sami.
Even during those times songs like "Achcha to Hum Chalte hain"
which have mostly a rendition of lines rather than singing of lyrics
the song "Achcha to hum chalte hain"
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED
>
> > On 6 Dec 1994, SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED wrote:
> > Instead of having songs such as "Kehdo ke tum ho meri varna, jeena nahin mujhe
> > hai marna...." why can't we have songs like "Tere bina zindagi se koi, shikwa
> > to nahin..." ?
>
> But this comparison is not fair, Sami.
> you are comparing a very ordinary song to a very good one.
I agree that that was a pathetic comparison :-) Actually, I was in a hurry to catch the last bus home, and included the first songs which came to my mind.
What I intended to compare was the theme. I wanted to point out that themes such as "Tere bina, life is not worth it" have always been there, and are still there. And while the MD's cud come up with melodius songs for such themes in the
past, they r not able to do so now.
> Even during those times songs like "Achcha to Hum Chalte hain"
> which have mostly a rendition of lines rather than singing of lyrics
>were made. I think we say that this song from Tezaab is as good or bad as
> the song "Achcha to hum chalte hain"
In terms of lyrics, yes. But, in terms of tune and rendition by the singers, "Achha to hum chalte hain...." is much better. And that's IMHO.
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
> Madhav
********************************************************************************
Lines for the day:
Jasba-e-ishq ke anjaam pe is duniya me
Jab koi ashq bahata hai to hansleta hun
Nyaya Sharma in "Jab GHam-e-ishq satata hai to hansleta hun..."
********************************************************************************
A.K.Shandal
TV Asia showed the premier of Stuntman (Jackie,Zeba) on Sun 4 Dec. and the
amma dekh song was edited out. The caption during the film said that it
was due to some legal dispute (though not with TV Asia).
Can someone shed some light on the 'legal dispute' ?
Anil
Manish M. Rathi
> > Instead of having songs such as "Kehdo ke tum ho meri varna, jeena nahin mujhe
> > hai marna...." why can't we have songs like "Tere bina zindagi se koi, shikwa
> > to nahin..." ?
>
> But this comparison is not fair, Sami.
> you are comparing a very ordinary song to a very good one.
Hi !
probably when you were talking about theme,
this example would be suitable :
an oldie :
choo lele do nazuk hoton ko
kuch aur nahin hai jaam hai yeh
kudrat ne jo humko baksha hai
wo sabse haseen paigaam hai ye
to the song from HUM :
jumma chumma de de
sure, this song was a hit, but haven't we gone gross.
wonder if the "good ol' days" would return.
-Manish Rathi