SAIGAL WEBSITE UPGRADED
saigalfan
largest collection of Saigal songs (168 mp3 files) including movie
track versions, lyrics for over 125 songs (iTrans), ready to print bi-
lingual Song Book, links to video clips of movie tracks of song
sequences, the singer's horoscope and astrological charts, Fans
singing Saigal numbers and much more.
I am hopeful of soon collecting and uploading all the songs 'known' to
have been rendered by Saigal. Completing the Bengali section with the
remaining songs will probably take a little longer.
Suggestions if any and help in making the site more comprehensive will
be welcome and highly appreciated.
Regards
MV Surender
sjh...@gmail.com
> www.kundanlalsaigal.comhas been upgraded to include the single
I am certain you & your 'source' DOES NOT POSSESS atleast two (2)
film songs of KLS !
KIndly comment .
=Jay=
2/9
kcp
> On Sep 1, 12:25 pm, saigalfan <surender...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
This mail is SICK
kcp
> www.kundanlalsaigal.comhas been upgraded to include the single
Kudos to your efforts. It could be one of the best websites on any HFM
singer. Keep it up
KCP
Asif
> www.kundanlalsaigal.comhas been upgraded to include the single
Can you please add a section about or some information about his hit
songs out of all he sang in/for Hindi films if possible? I know that
Ameen Sayani played 'Gam diye mushtaqil' (Shahjahan, 1946) as a
tribute to KL Sehgal in the 1001st weekly show of Binaca Geet Mala in
1972. Sayani had played hit songs of other singers ( from pre-Binaca
days) in the 1000th radio show, but forgot to include KL Sehgal. So
he made up for this lapse in the 1001st weekly show.
Besides this song, the only other KLS songs that I know were hits are:
'Jab dil hi toot gaya' and 'Ik bangal bane nyaara'. I would love to
know more. Professor Surjit Sahab believes all KLS songs were hits.
Is that so? Thanks.
Asif
saigalfan
> On Sep 1, 12:25 pm, saigalfan <surender...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > largest collection of Saigal songs (168 mp3 files) including movie
> > track versions, lyrics for over 125 songs (iTrans), ready to print bi-
> > lingual Song Book, links to video clips of movie tracks of song
> > sequences, the singer's horoscope and astrological charts, Fans
> > singing Saigal numbers and much more.
>
> > I am hopeful of soon collecting and uploading all the songs 'known' to
> > have been rendered by Saigal. Completing the Bengali section with the
> > remaining songs will probably take a little longer.
>
> > Suggestions if any and help in making the site more comprehensive will
> > be welcome and highly appreciated.
>
> > Regards
>
> > MV Surender
>
> I am certain you & your 'source' DOES NOT POSSESS atleast two (2)
> film songs of KLS !
>
> KIndly comment .
>
> =Jay=
>
> - Show quoted text -
Dear sir,
I am just a johnny-come-lately (!) who has rediscovered an interest in
Saigal after
over 30 years away from radio and film music. In the process of
attempting to sing his songs which I used to hum as a young person, I
searched for lyrics, audio files and other resources on the Internet.
Having spent some effort in doing so I felt I must put all these
together to make up a comprehensive site on Saigal.
Once this was done I set the target of seeking and placing all songs
'known' to have been sung by the Great Master. Well-meaning
'collectors' are helping me achieve this. Apart from the songs already
uploaded to the website, I have the following list of 'wanted files'
which I am hopeful collectors will give me :
========================
SAIGAL SONGS WANTED:
---------------------------------------
Karwan-e-Hayat
- Shehron mein wo baat kahaan
- Ab kaise chhupaavoon main dil kee baat
--------------------------------------
1938 Dhartimata
- Prabhu, mohey bulaa lo gaaon
--------------------------------------
1941 Lagan
- Kaise katein ratiyaan baalam
--------------------------------------
1942 Bhakt Surdas
- Manvaa krishna naam ratt gaa
- Jis jogee kaa jog liyaa
--------------------------------------
1944 Bhanwara
- Ye wo jagah hai jahaan ghar lutaye jate hain
--------------------------------------
Non-Film (Hindi) Songs
- Hari bin koi kaam na aayo
- Ke na jaav ree goree aaj paniyaa bharan
- Kete din aur kete din
===============================
I have just 8 (one more is in the pipeline) of the 30 songs in Bengali
language which some 'collectors' have promised to give me.
More important than all this is the fact is that you are alluding to
the availability of two songs which you seem to be almost certain I
and my benefactors dont have.
All I can say is I will be more than grateful if you can kindly help
put all Saigal songs in the public domain, they dont belong to private
collections which offer access to a select few.
The classic era is long gone and we are racing towards newer styles of
music and singing in films. Only a small group of enthusiasts will
continue to be interested in Saigal and his songs; it will be rather
unfair to deny them an opportunity to know the whole body of his
recorded works. It does sound strange that a Punjabi-speaking singer
should have rendered just two songs in his mother tongue; all that
this means is that only these two were recorded in an era when such
facilities were not commonplace.
With kind regards
MV Surender
saigalfan
> On Sep 1, 11:25 am, saigalfan <surender...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > largest collection of Saigal songs (168 mp3 files) including movie
> > track versions, lyrics for over 125 songs (iTrans), ready to print bi-
> > lingual Song Book, links to video clips of movie tracks of song
> > sequences, the singer's horoscope and astrological charts, Fans
> > singing Saigal numbers and much more.
>
> > I am hopeful of soon collecting and uploading all the songs 'known' to
> > have been rendered by Saigal. Completing the Bengali section with the
> > remaining songs will probably take a little longer.
>
> > Suggestions if any and help in making the site more comprehensive will
> > be welcome and highly appreciated.
>
> > Regards
>
> > MV Surender
>
> Kudos to your efforts. It could be one of the best websites on any HFM
> singer. Keep it up
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for your kind compliments
Surender
saigalfan
> On Sep 1, 3:25 am, saigalfan <surender...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Dear Mr Asif
Thanks for your response to my message and the suggestion to post
details of Hit songs which I will definetly think of.
Just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, a good song is one which
appeals to an individual given his musical tastes and background.
Professor Surjit may be right in his assertion that all Saigal songs
are hits. However, hit songs can also be described as ones which
appealed to a larger number of listeners. Going by this criteria some
of his hit songs are :
Babul Mora Naihar Chuuto Hi Jaaye
Jab Dil Hii Toot Gaya, Hum Jeeke Kyaa Karenge
Ek Bangala Bane Nyaara
Gham Diye Mushtaqil Kitana Naazuk Hai Dil
So Jaa Raaj Kumari, So Jaa
Duniya Rang Ragiili Baaba Duniya Rang Rangeeli (by Pankaj Mullick, Uma
Devi & KL Saigal)
Ai Katibe Taqdeer Mujhe Itana Bataa De, Kyuun Mujhse Khafaa Hai Tuu
Kyaa Maine Kiya Hai
Nukhtachi Hai Ghame Dil Kisko Sunaye Na Bane
Diya Jalaao Jagmag Jagmag
Jhulana Jhulaye Aao Ri
Do Naina Matware Tihare, Hum Par Zulum Kare
Main Kyaa Jaanu Kyaa Jaadu Hai
This list can go on increasing as we keep mulling over other songs and
the excellent recall of those who care to listen to him. There are
others too which are less commonly known now but which reportedly took
the film going public by storm during the 1930s and 1940s - a couple
of them in this category are - Radhe Raani De Daaro Na (Puran
Bhagat_1933); Rumjhum Rumjhum Chaal Tihari (Tansen_1943).
Some of the more discerning listeners would put a number of his less
popularly known ghazals on top of the list - it is not without reason
he was known as the Ghazal King, particularly because he was one of
the most famous film stars in the subcontinent, some even call him the
first Super Star. He probably created interest in Ghazals among the
film-goers, the common man in the subcontinent. This is not to
belittle the importance of other ghazal singers with a niche
listenership.
I can be reached at mv.su...@yahoo.com for any further discussion
you may like to have on this subject.
Regards
MV Surender
Sukesh
'karoo_n kyaa aas niraas bahi' from Dushman
Regards
Sukesh
Afzal A. Khan
The last word is "bhayee".
Afzal
Sukesh
Regards
Sukesh
surjit singh
> On Sep 2, 7:31 am, sjhh...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sep 1, 12:25 pm, saigalfan <surender...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
Great effort! Congratulations! Keep up the good work. Small
suggestion: Please clean up the spellings, e.g. the movie Bhanwara.
You may want to get a standard reference on Saigal. Internet is not
completely reliable.
I notice that you have put up the extremely rare song hari bin (via
Mr. Hem Jain) on your website. How this song became un-rare is
interesting. Har Mandir obtained this song from his various sources.
He sent a CD of non-filmi songs to the Banagalore RMIM meet organizers
to distribute. My information is that they did not. So I asked Har
Mandir for a copy of the CD. He sent. I then sent one copy of the song
to Jain Sahib.
In the meantime, Mr. Zainuddin, a friend of Dr. Khawar Siddiquie and
Dr. M. L. Kapur obtained a copy of this song on his recent visit to
India. So both MLK and KS also sent me copies!! I was going to put it
up on my website once I had some time, but now I don't need to.
>
> MV Surender
UVR
>
> Great effort! Congratulations! Keep up the good work. Small
> suggestion: Please clean up the spellings, e.g. the movie Bhanwara.
> You may want to get a standard reference on Saigal. Internet is not
> completely reliable.
>
For my part, Surender ji, may I gently suggest changing:
FROM: Mara ba gamza kushto
TO: Ma ra baghamza kusht
(or, even better, maa raa baGhamza kusht)
and, more importantly
FROM: Rangeen tar az hast
TO: rangeentar az hinaast (or "az hinaa ast")
for the two Persian Ghazals listed on your site.
Interestingly enough, I have had occasion to correspond with
Hamraaz saahib himself in connection with these two Persian
Ghazals. I recall sending him these same corrections along
with a nearly complete transcript of the lyrics of both Ghazals.
This was before the Saigal book (http://saigal.hamraaz.org/)
was compiled with Harish Raghuvanshi's collaboration.
-UVR.
Prithviraj Dasgupta
> I have just 8 (one more is in the pipeline) of the 30 songs in Bengali
> language which some 'collectors' have promised to give me.
KLS's Bengali songs (22 in all) are not rare at all, save one; and one
needn't rely on collectors to acquire them.
See: http://www.rhapsody.com/klsaigal/golaphoyeuthukphutey
18 songs on that CD. 1 more song (swapan dekhi) is available on
raaga.com under Bengali/Didi. 1 song from 'Bijoya' is hard to get.
That leaves 2 more songs - 1 from Didi (Jhumur jhumur nupur) and 1
from Devdas (kahare je jaratey chay) not publicly available now. I
think the CD compiler omitted them for their less-than catchy/slow
tunes. These two songs have been reissued on 45 rpm disks and tapes
and might be"floating" around in the public domain too.
-Prithviraj
kcp
> On Sep 5, 12:16 pm, surjit singh <surjitsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Great effort! Congratulations! Keep up the good work. Small
> > suggestion: Please clean up the spellings, e.g. the movie Bhanwara.
> > You may want to get a standard reference on Saigal. Internet is not
> > completely reliable.
>
> For my part, Surender ji, may I gently suggest changing:
>
> FROM: Mara ba gamza kushto
> TO: Ma ra baghamza kusht
> (or, even better, maa raa baGhamza kusht)
>
> and, more importantly
>
> FROM: Rangeen tar az hast
> TO: rangeentar az hinaast (or "az hinaa ast")
>
I sugest that you put the spellings exactly as appearing on the
records/vinyls/cassettes/CDs.
KCP
saigalfan
> On Sep 3, 3:40 am, saigalfan <surender...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 2, 7:31 am, sjhh...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 1, 12:25 pm, saigalfan <surender...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Greetings.
If Mr Surjit Singh says it is a good effort on my part, I am sure it
is. Thanks for the good words you had for the Saigal website.
I have requested Dr Suresh S Chandvankar for a copy of the Hamraaz
book on Saigal. I am sure this will help me take care of a number of
errors spelling, transliteration and otherwise.
As I have already admitted in the yahoo group pages earlier, I am a
novice in the field. I am here by sheer accident. It is just that I
enjoy listening to as well as singing Saigal songs, something I used
to as a child and which I resumed doing just a couple of years back.
When I set about placing all the resources I collected, primarily from
the internet, in a website on Saigal, Mr Hem Chandra Jain noticed my
struggle and has since been holding my hand and helping me in making
it more comprehensive.
In this context I would like to quote you (extracted from your own
webpage on Dr ML Kapur) : "There are many collectors who like the
security guards of Fort Knox are never able to enjoy the wealth they
guard." Some do.
But if a larger number of music lovers have easy access to and are
able to enjoy, the value of the treasure may increase manyfold. If low
bit-rate and fidelity audio files of classic songs put up at the non-
commercial sites on the internet generate enough interest, there could
very well be an enlarged market for music companies offering better
quality professionally handled audio products. If I could buy a set of
CDs / Cassettes covering all the Geet, Ghazals, Bhajans of Saigal I
would have gladly done it !
I feel honoured when veterans in the field like you, Mr Hem Chandra
Jain, Dr ML Kapur, Mr Zainuddin Vahanvaty, Mr Kottapalli Vijay Kumar,
Dr Suresh S Chandvankar write to me and let me know I am going in the
right direction.
While all of you including Dr. Khawar Siddiquie and several others I
dont even know about, have put in painstaking work in collecting and
preserving the rich musical heritage of the Indian sub-continent, I am
a mere 'Fan' who likes to listen to soulful music, audaciously
attempts to copy the Master and has acquired the new role of a
presenter on the internet.
Regards
MV Surender
Asif
>
> I have requested Dr Suresh S Chandvankar for a copy of the Hamraaz
> book on Saigal. I am sure this will help me take care of a number of
> errors spelling, transliteration and otherwise.
>
Please do not rely on Hamraaz Sahab's book on Saigal, because, with
due and great respect to him for his efforts on Geet Kosh and other
work, he has a penchant for mis-spelling film titles too and using
'aa' or 'AA' where there is only 'a' or 'A' in the official title and
'ee' where there is only 'i'.
So, as someone else suggested, please use original records and tapes
as your source for film titles. Song titles are your own realm where
you can get help at www.giitaayan.com, but, I would prefer to publish
on a website a song as 'Jab dil hi toot gaya' instead of 'jab dil hii
TuuT gayaa'. iTRANS style listing of a song looks ugly if displayed
in English on a web page.
Asif
saigalfan
Dear Sir,
I will attend to the spelling errors after obtaining a copy of Hamraaz
ji's book on Saigal.
I have corrected the titles and audio file names of the two Farsi /
Persian songs in the Audio page of the website.
More importantly, I would appreciate your sending me the correct
lyrics for these songs and if possible the translation, free or
otherwise, for the same if possible. I had put out a request on the
internet for somebody who knows Persian language to help me with this.
Lo and behold your mail comes as a Godsent to me. On receiving this
material, I will place the same in individual lyrics pages as well as
the consolidated soft copy of the Song Book which lends itself for
printing after downloading.
I can be reached at mv.su...@yahoo.com
Regards
MV Surender
saigalfan
Dear Mr Prithviraj,
I am not familiar with Bangla as well as with the classic films and
songs in this language. Your suggestions have come as a welcome piece
of information even as some of the 'collectors' have generously agreed
to provide these songs to me. Once I do this I would be presenting all
the songs rendered by Saigal in Hindi / Urdu as well as other
languages.
Regards
MV Surender
Surjit Singh
Asif wrote:
> On Sep 6, 6:31 am, saigalfan <surender...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I have requested Dr Suresh S Chandvankar for a copy of the Hamraaz
>>book on Saigal. I am sure this will help me take care of a number of
>>errors spelling, transliteration and otherwise.
>>
>
>
> Please do not rely on Hamraaz Sahab's book on Saigal, because, with
> due and great respect to him for his efforts on Geet Kosh and other
> work, he has a penchant for mis-spelling film titles too and using
> 'aa' or 'AA' where there is only 'a' or 'A' in the official title and
> 'ee' where there is only 'i'.
Although this point is well-taken about Vol 3, edition II, it is
completely irrelevant here because the Saigal movies come in Vols 1 and
2, where this 'modern' scheme is NOT followed.
>
> So, as someone else suggested, please use original records and tapes
Good suggestion, but original material is very hard to come by as Har
Mandir's experience amply demonstates.
> as your source for film titles. Song titles are your own realm where
> you can get help at www.giitaayan.com, but, I would prefer to publish
> on a website a song as 'Jab dil hi toot gaya' instead of 'jab dil hii
> TuuT gayaa'. iTRANS style listing of a song looks ugly if displayed
> in English on a web page.
>
> Asif
>
--
Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(atic), period.
http://hindi-movies-songs.com/index.html
kcp
>
>
> > So, as someone else suggested, please use original records and tapes
>
> Good suggestion, but original material is very hard to come by as Har
> Mandir's experience amply demonstates.
for collectors like you, it should not be difficult...right ?
To provide the info collected ( by the knowledgeable people ) , to
the Saigal website, is a different matter !
KCP
Prithviraj Dasgupta
> Asif wrote:
> > So, as someone else suggested, please use original records and tapes
Original(non-re-issues) tapes of Saigal's songs? Hmmmm...I wonder.
> Good suggestion, but original material is very hard to come by as Har
> Mandir's experience amply demonstates.
> --
> Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(atic), period.http://hindi-movies-songs.com/index.html
IME, Encycl. of Indian Cinema is a reliable source for spellings of
movie names. I believe they went by the censor certificate spelling
which are in accordance with the spelling on records.
-Prithviraj
saigalfan
Dear Mr KCP,
You are familiar with the problem as well as the not so easy solution
for the same. However, the point is well taken and efforts will be
made to rectify the solution with the hlp of 'collectors' .
Regards
Surender
saigalfan
Thanks for the valuable comments and suggestions.
Surender
seth...@yahoo.com
Vinod Sounthalia .
A little useful book is - KL Saigal the pilgrim of swara by
Raghava R Menon .
A not so useful book is by Harmandir Singh Hamraaz .
s
uzx
ishq Kud maa_il-e-hijaab
I had posted corrections to the lyrics entry appearing
in ISB, sometimes back. Corrected lyrics are given below:
May be you would like to use the corrected lyrics in your
website.
ishq Kud maa_il\-e\-hijaab hai aaj
husn majabuur\-e\-iztaraab hai aaj
naalaa\-e\-dil ko dil se laad nahii.n
naGmaa aazurdaa\-e\-rubaab hai aaj
maikadaa Gamazadaa hai tere baGair
saranaguu.n shiishaa\-o-\sharaab hai aaj
zi.ndagii jis me.n saa.Ns letii thii
vo zamaanaa Kayaal\-o\-Kvaab hai aaj
miT gaye dil ke valavale 'siimaab'
Katm afsaanaa\-e\-shabaab hai aaj
urzung khan
Surjit Singh
Thank you for your opinion. Now let me give you the facts. In the core
part where info about songs, lyrics and films is given, the two books
have almost identical information. In the book by Vinod Sonthalia and
Kamal Beriwala this info is in Hindi (Devanagari) only. On the other
hand, in the book by Har Mandir Singh Hamraaz and Harish Raghuwanshi,
this info is provided in Hindi as well as in English. So, to a large
extent, the Sonthalia-Beriwala book is of little use to people who do
not know Hindi (Devanagari).
>
> s
seth...@yahoo.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ok , agreed . You are right in your own way .
Can someone please let me know who penned the
ghazal ' gar siyah bakht hi hona tha naseebon me merey '
I am looking for the lyrics of the ghazal , any help please .
s
Prithviraj Dasgupta
And, besides the filmography/discography part, what's your (SS and CS)
opinion for the rest of the respective books? I'm asking because I was
planning to get the book by Sonthalia as, from the title, it seems to
be written in English.
-Prithviraj
kcp
- the full era was in front of me while reading it
KCP
seth...@yahoo.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Acoording to my parents none of the above books .
During the prime years of Saigal my parents were living
in calcutta . The news papers and magazines of those days
used to furnish lots of stories about him .
KL Saigals deep friedship with Punkaj Mullik .
RC Borals tough rehearsal sessions and his efforts to
compose the finest music .
His friendship with Prithviraj , Jagdish Sethi , KN Singh
Kidar Sharma , Nawab etc .
His advise to Kidar Sharma not leave NT and produce
Chitralekha as a competitor to Nartaki .
KN Singh and KL Saigal's tailors and clothiers .
His first motorcycle ride and minor mishaps .
His love for spicy food and entertaining artists with
the home made delicacies .
His great love , devotion and respect for his mother etc etc .
These are the only few from the many not covered
in any of the books .
Please look for book in bengali , it may be little eloborate .
s
maild...@yahoo.com
should be ignored. In mid 30s, when Saigal, Pankaj Mullick and
other
singers recorded the songs, there were very few people who owned
gramaphone players ('Bhoompoowala Baja'). The machine was very
expensive and so also the records. Quite a number of rich Indians,
who
could afford to buy gramaphone player, won't do it, because it would
have put a black mark on their social status. They prefer to remain
as
'Brown Sahebs'.
I don't have the figures, but a hit number like 'Babul More' might
have sold
5,000 records in it's first year of release.
I have heard stories that such was the appeal of Saigals songs
(including Bhajans
like - Suno Suno Ae Kishan Kala) that slightly well-off people bought
the player
and 1 or 2 records. Even Muslims, for whom Bhajans are an
unacceptable
music entity, bought record of before listed song, because the song
was great
While HMV (then and even today, the biggest company in music trade)
did not
make any money from sale of Saigal's records, they got indirect
benefit from
higher number of gramaphone players in buyers homes, which resulted
in
higher sale of records in coming years.
When Shah Jahan was released, some earlier films had already earned
the
reputation of earning huge royalties from sale of records (RATTAN -
got back
within a short period, it's entire production cost from such
royalties) KISMAT
too probably, was also a huge hit.
Sudhir
p.s.: A small correction should be incorporated: 'Rang Rangili
Duniya' was
enlightened by: Pankaj Mullick, Uma Shashi (not Uma Devi -
later
known as Tun Tun) and K L Saigal.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
saigalfan wrote:
> On Sep 2, 10:04 pm, Asif <alvi.a...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 1, 3:25 am, saigalfan <surender...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >www.kundanlalsaigal.comhasbeen upgraded to include the single
> > > largest collection of Saigal songs (168 mp3 files) including movie
> > > track versions, lyrics for over 125 songs (iTrans), ready to print bi-
> > > lingual Song Book, links to video clips of movie tracks of song
> > > sequences, the singer's horoscope and astrological charts, Fans
> > > singing Saigal numbers and much more.
> >
> > > I am hopeful of soon collecting and uploading all the songs 'known' to
> > > have been rendered by Saigal. Completing the Bengali section with the
> > > remaining songs will probably take a little longer.
> >
> > > Suggestions if any and help in making the site more comprehensive will
> > > be welcome and highly appreciated.
> >
> > > Regards
> >
> > > MV Surender
> >
> > Can you please add a section about or some information about his hit
> > songs out of all he sang in/for Hindi films if possible? I know that
> > Ameen Sayani played 'Gam diye mushtaqil' (Shahjahan, 1946) as a
> > tribute to KL Sehgal in the 1001st weekly show of Binaca Geet Mala in
> > 1972. Sayani had played hit songs of other singers ( from pre-Binaca
> > days) in the 1000th radio show, but forgot to include KL Sehgal. So
> > he made up for this lapse in the 1001st weekly show.
> >
> > Besides this song, the only other KLS songs that I know were hits are:
> > 'Jab dil hi toot gaya' and 'Ik bangal bane nyaara'. I would love to
> > know more. Professor Surjit Sahab believes all KLS songs were hits.
> > Is that so? Thanks.
> >
> > Asif- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Dear Mr Asif
>
> Thanks for your response to my message and the suggestion to post
> details of Hit songs which I will definetly think of.
>
> Just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, a good song is one which
> appeals to an individual given his musical tastes and background.
> Professor Surjit may be right in his assertion that all Saigal songs
> are hits. However, hit songs can also be described as ones which
> appealed to a larger number of listeners. Going by this criteria some
> of his hit songs are :
>
> Babul Mora Naihar Chuuto Hi Jaaye
> Jab Dil Hii Toot Gaya, Hum Jeeke Kyaa Karenge
> Ek Bangala Bane Nyaara
> Gham Diye Mushtaqil Kitana Naazuk Hai Dil
> So Jaa Raaj Kumari, So Jaa
> Duniya Rang Ragiili Baaba Duniya Rang Rangeeli (by Pankaj Mullick, Uma
> Devi & KL Saigal)
> Ai Katibe Taqdeer Mujhe Itana Bataa De, Kyuun Mujhse Khafaa Hai Tuu
> Kyaa Maine Kiya Hai
> Nukhtachi Hai Ghame Dil Kisko Sunaye Na Bane
> Diya Jalaao Jagmag Jagmag
> Jhulana Jhulaye Aao Ri
> Do Naina Matware Tihare, Hum Par Zulum Kare
> Main Kyaa Jaanu Kyaa Jaadu Hai
>
> This list can go on increasing as we keep mulling over other songs and
> the excellent recall of those who care to listen to him. There are
> others too which are less commonly known now but which reportedly took
> the film going public by storm during the 1930s and 1940s - a couple
> of them in this category are - Radhe Raani De Daaro Na (Puran
> Bhagat_1933); Rumjhum Rumjhum Chaal Tihari (Tansen_1943).
>
> Some of the more discerning listeners would put a number of his less
> popularly known ghazals on top of the list - it is not without reason
> he was known as the Ghazal King, particularly because he was one of
> the most famous film stars in the subcontinent, some even call him the
> first Super Star. He probably created interest in Ghazals among the
> film-goers, the common man in the subcontinent. This is not to
> belittle the importance of other ghazal singers with a niche
> listenership.
>
> I can be reached at mv.su...@yahoo.com for any further discussion
> you may like to have on this subject.
>
> Regards
> MV Surender
Afzal A. Khan
> ishq Kud maa_il-e-hijaab
>
> I had posted corrections to the lyrics entry appearing
> in ISB, sometimes back. Corrected lyrics are given below:
> May be you would like to use the corrected lyrics in your
> website.
>
> ishq Kud maa_il\-e\-hijaab hai aaj
> husn majabuur\-e\-iztaraab hai aaj
>
> naalaa\-e\-dil ko dil se laad nahii.n
> naGmaa aazurdaa\-e\-rubaab hai aaj
>
> maikadaa Gamazadaa hai tere baGair
> saranaguu.n shiishaa\-o-\sharaab hai aaj
>
> zi.ndagii jis me.n saa.Ns letii thii
> vo zamaanaa Kayaal\-o\-Kvaab hai aaj
>
> miT gaye dil ke valavale 'siimaab'
> Katm afsaanaa\-e\-shabaab hai aaj
>
> urzung khan
In the first misra of the second sher, I believe the word used
by the poet himself was "laag". I suppose it is Saigal's
enunciation, and maybe the lapse of period since the ghazal's
recording, that has made it difficult for listeners in general
to "decipher" the word.
In this thread, there has been some discussion about books on
Saigal and whether some people are able or unable to read the
Devanagri script. Without in any way trying to revive the
iTrans issue, it is my feeling that the above rendition does
not quite do justice to the language employed by the poet.
I would, therefore, commend a rendition in ordinary simple
Roman English :
'Ishq KHud maail-e-hijaab hai aaj
Husn majboor-e-iztiraab hai aaj
Naala-e-dil ko dil se (laag) naheeN
NaGHma aazurda-e-rubaab hai aaj
Maikada GHamzada hai tere baGHair
Sar~nigooN sheesha-o-sharaab hai aaj
Zindagi jis men saaNs leti thi
Woh zamaana KHayaal-o-KH(w)aab hai aaj
Mit gaye dil ke walwale Seemaab
KHatm afsaana-e-shabaab hai aaj
I believe a couple of amendments to the ISB entry may be in
order :
"Iztiraab" and "Sar~nigooN", rather than the spellings given
in the iTrans version (i.e. 'i' instead of 'a' in both
words).
In some words, the elongated sound indicated by the double
"aa" may not be in order. To clarify :
"Naala-e-...." rather than "Naalaa-e-......"
"aazurda-e-... rather than "aazurdaa-e-...."
"Maikada" rather than "Maikadaa"
"GHamzada" rather than "GHamzadaa"
"sheesha-o-..." rather than "sheeshaa-o-...."
"zamaana" rather than "zamaanaa"
"afsaana" rather than "afsaanaa"
My view in this context is based on the metre or behr of the
ghazal.
I do hope that Urzung Saheb (or anybody else) would not take
my comments as just "nitpicking". It is only my love of the
Urdu language that has prompted me to pen (or type) these
lines.
As regards the Farsi ghazal "RaNgeeN~tar~az~hinaa~st...", Shri
Harmindar Singh Hamraaz got in touch with me some 3 1/2 years
back (through e-mail) with a request to transcribe the lyrics.
I am quoting below an excerpt from my reply :
--------------------------------------------------------------
Hamraaz Saheb,
Sat Sri Akaal Greetings
I did get the song (in mp3) and listened to it
2/3 times. Unfortunately, the recording is such that,
coupled with Saigal's singing style, it was most difficult
to follow the words of the ghazal. Maybe, I should blame
my own ageing hearing faculties !
In any case, I was able to decipher two of the four shers :
the first and the last.
First Sher :
RaNgeeN~tar~az hinaa~st bahaar-o-KHizaan-e-ma
Bar~dast-e-KH(w)esh bosa zanad baaGHbaan-e-ma
Rough English Rendition : Our Spring and Autumn are even
more colourful than "henna" (meh~Ndi). (So much so that)
the gardener kisses his own hand.
I suspect that the reference here could be to the Divine
Gardener up above, Who is the Creator of all things.
Possibly the poet wants to say that even He is so pleased
with His colourful creation (the Spring and Autumn on our
Earth) that He kisses His Own Hand in sheer appreciation of
the wonder He has wrought. But this explanation is just
speculation on my part.
Last Sher :
Az baal-o-par GHubaar-e-tamanna fishaaNda eem
Bar shaaKH-e-gul giraaN na bawad aashiyaan-e-ma
Rough English Rendition : I have fluttered the (accumu-
lated) dust of (unfulfilled) desires off my wings so that
the weight of my nest on the branch of the flowery plant
may not be too heavy.
Although, grammatically, the poet has used the plural
number "we" or "hum" in the sher, it is preferable to
translate the sher as if it is in singular number.
"Hum" actually meaning "maiN" --- this often happens in
Urdu/Farsi poetry.
In the other two shers, it is possible to make out a few
words like "tawaazo" and "teGH-e-zabaaN" etc., but I was
unable to follow the full wordings.
I do not know the name of the poet, but it could be Mirza
Qateel. He was a contemporary of Ghalib. Originally a
Hindu (Khatri caste), he had embraced Islam. Saigal
has rendered at least one other Farsi ghazal which I know
definitely as having been composed by Mirza Qateel. Its
"zameen" (radeef and qaafiya) is : qaza ra bahaana saaKHt,
haya ra bahaana saaKHt etc. I am sure you must have it in
your possession.
To my way of thinking, this particular ghazal (RaNgeen~tar)
does not have much literary merit. Just my opinion.
My "speculation" (i.e. reference to the Almighty) relating to
the first sher is based on the fact that Mirza Qateel (if
indeed he is the author of this ghazal) was known to write
mystic poetry (after embracing Islam) and is also reputed
to have had some spiritual/mystic experiences.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Afzal
UVR
Afzal saahib,
This is interesting. Hamraaz ji had also contact me with a
request to decipher the words of this (and the other) Farsi
Ghazal. As to why he thought I could be of help, I [still] can't
say, but I think I did manage to decipher some of the lyric
of the remaining two couplets from "rangeentar az hinaast".
Here's what I came up with (and which I sent to Hamraaz sb).
If I had known he had contacted you too, I would have sent
my transcript to you to see if you could help nail down the
whole thing.
maa Khasm raa z' raah-e-tawaazo kuneem dost
berooN gurazde(?) teerah(?) kasheed raaqibaan-e-maa (#2)
chooN bed agarche teGh-e-zubaaneem sar-ba-sar
bande shudast be-samaree(?) bar zabaan-e-maa (#3)
[Words marked with (?) are those that are still undeciphered.]
I'm not going to attempt a translation, because I don't know
Farsi and am not sure about the exact meaning. I'll be very
grateful for any help in that direction from yourself or other
Farsi-knowing RMIMers. I will only say here that the image
the former sh'er brings to my mind is one of saying "with a
great effort [show of humility (tawazo)], we befriended our
adversary (Khasm), but no sooner did he go out [leave our
precence?] than he was taken in by our enemies (raaqibaan)."
I should like to add here that I fared significantly better with
the other Farsi Ghazal; I think I managed to figure out the
entire lyric. Here it goes, with a brief commentary of what
I think it means (and again, please help with the actual
English translation of the couplets) --
1.
maa raa ba-Ghamza kusht o qazaa raa bahaana saaKht
Khud soo e maa na deed o hayaa raa bahaana saaKht
{
hamein tirchhi nazar se maar diyaa, aur ilzaam
maut ke sar maNRh diya -- i.e., when asked what
happened, the reply was something like "alas!
Death took him."
Khud hi jaan boojh kar ham se taGhaaful bartaa
(= hamaari upekshaa kii), hamaari taraf naheen
dekhaa, aur kah diyaa ke hamein sharm aati hai!
}
2.
raftam ba masjide k ba-beenam jamaal-e-dost
daste ba-ruKh kasheed o du'aa raa bahaana saaKht
{
masjid gaye the ham k apne dost ke husn kaa nazaara
kar lein, magar usne hamein dekhte hi apne chehre ko
haathon se chhupaa liyaa, aur bahaana banaa diyaa
ki hamne to du'aa ke liye haath uThaaye the
}
3.
daste ba dosh e Ghair nihaad az sar e karam
maa raa chooN deed o laGhzish-e-paa raa bahaana saaKht
{
yoon to usne baRe pyaar se apna haath Ghair (= our rival
in love) ke kandhe par rakhaa thaa, lekin hamein dekhaa
to kah diyaa k 'paaon phisal gaya thaa' (= laGhzish-e-paa),
i.e., ham to sirf sahaara le rahe the, aur koi "aisi-vaisi" baat
naheen hai.
}
4.
zaahid na daasht taab e jamaal e paree ruKhaan
kunje giraft o yaad e Khudaa raa bahaana saaKht
{
"zaahid (priest) ji" mein itni taab (self-control) kahaan
ki husn-waalon ko dekh lein aur phir bhi aape mein
raheN? asl kaaran to yahi hai k janaab kyon kisi kone
mein baiThe milte hain (kaheen kisee haseen kaa
saamna na ho jaaye!). lekin dikhaate yoon hain ki
Khudaa ki yaad mein magan hain.
}
-UVR.
UVR
>
> I should like to add here that I fared significantly better with
> the other Farsi Ghazal; I think I managed to figure out the
> entire lyric. Here it goes, with a brief commentary of what
> I think it means (and again, please help with the actual
> English translation of the couplets) --
>
> 1.
> maa raa ba-Ghamza kusht o qazaa raa bahaana saaKht
> Khud soo e maa na deed o hayaa raa bahaana saaKht
>
> {
> hamein tirchhi nazar se maar diyaa, aur ilzaam
> maut ke sar maNRh diya -- i.e., when asked what
> happened, the reply was something like "alas!
> Death took him."
>
> Khud hi jaan boojh kar ham se taGhaaful bartaa
> (= hamaari upekshaa kii), hamaari taraf naheen
> dekhaa, aur kah diyaa ke hamein sharm aati hai!
>
> }
>
Just to clarify, that last "hamein sharm aati hai" should
be in double quotes (i.e., it is said by the person who
is casting sidelong glances, not the recipient of said
glances).
> 2.
> raftam ba masjide k ba-beenam jamaal-e-dost
> daste ba-ruKh kasheed o du'aa raa bahaana saaKht
>
> {
> masjid gaye the ham k apne dost ke husn kaa nazaara
> kar lein, magar usne hamein dekhte hi apne chehre ko
> haathon se chhupaa liyaa, aur bahaana banaa diyaa
> ki hamne to du'aa ke liye haath uThaaye the
>
> }
>
Likewise "hamne to du'aa ke liye haath uThaae the" is said
by the person who is hiding his/her face.
Zafar
Looks like this Ghazal has atleast one more she'r, and a maqta' at
that:
Khoon e Qateel e be sar o paa raa bahaa e Kheesh
maaleedan e nigaar e hinaa raa bahaana saaKht
... which almost proves that the Ghazal is by Mirza Muhammad Hassan
Qateel (1757-1818).
Zafar
UVR
Excellent! Thanks for providing the maqta. To my non-Farsi-knowing
brain this sounds very much like a continuation of the general theme
of the verses sung by Saigal ("he wantonly spilled Qateel's blood, but
ascribed the 'red handedness' to Henna").
But I have to take issue with you for not having commented on (nor
corrected!) my "interpretation" of the couplets. I would like to
most
humbly request you to kindly do so at your earliest opportunity,
please. If the previous four weren't enough to bug you, I have
brazenly put forth one more here :)
Hoping-ly,
-UVR.
qure...@googlemail.com
> Excellent! Thanks for providing the maqta. To my non-Farsi-knowing
> brain this sounds very much like a continuation of the general theme
> of the verses sung by Saigal ("he wantonly spilled Qateel's blood, but
> ascribed the 'red handedness' to Henna").
>
> But I have to take issue with you for not having commented on (nor
> corrected!) my "interpretation" of the couplets. I would like to
> most
> humbly request you to kindly do so at your earliest opportunity,
> please. If the previous four weren't enough to bug you, I have
> brazenly put forth one more here :)
>
> Hoping-ly,
> -UVR.
UVR and Afzal Sahibaan, aadaab.
Gentlemen, I commend the humility of both of you!! Otherwise how would
either of you be able to not only transcribe the language accurately
but also, more importantly, translate it faithfully??
UVR Sahib, I apologise for sticking my nose in your post even before
Zafar Sahib has had a chance to respond to your humble request. Zafar
Sahib, please forgive me for the intrusion.
UVR Sahib, as far as my meagre understanding of Farsi is concerned,
your understanding/interpretation of the ash'aar is right on the spot.
Now if this is achieved by the efforts of a "non-Farsi knowing"
person, just imagine what you would be capable of achieving if you
*actually* knew the language!!:) Here is a literal (and not so nice)
translation.
1)
maa raa ba-Ghamza kusht o qazaa raa bahaana saaKht
Khud soo e maa na deed o hayaa raa bahaana saaKht
mujhe (hameN) apne GHamze se maar Daalaa awr qazaa kaa bahaanah kiyaa
merii (hamaarii) taraf KHud to nah dekhaa, magar Hayaa kaa bahaanah
kiyaa
2)
raftam ba masjide k ba-beenam jamaal-e-dost
daste ba-ruKh kasheed o du'aa raa bahaana saaKht
ek masjid meN gayaa kih apne dost kaa jamaal dekhuuN
haath(oN) ko apne chehre kii taraf kheNchaa (chhupaane ke liye) awr
du'aa kaa bahaanah kiyaa
3)
daste ba dosh e Ghair nihaad az sar e karam
maa raa chooN deed o laGhzish-e-paa raa bahaana saaKht
haath GHair ke kandhe par rakh diyaa us par mihr-baan ho kar
jab mujhe dekhaa to pair ke phisalne kaa bahaanah kiyaa
4)
zaahid na daasht taab e jamaal e paree ruKhaan
kunje giraft o yaad e Khudaa raa bahaana saaKht
zaahid ko in HasiinoN ke jamaal (ko dekhne) kii taab kahaaN
goshah-nashiinii iKHtiyaar kar lii awr KHudaa kaa bahaanah kiyaa
Afzal Sahib, my understanding is that in..
Az baal-o-par GHubaar-e-tamanna fishaaNda eem
Bar shaaKH-e-gul giraaN na bawad aashiyaan-e-ma...
the word is "buv-ad". However, I could be wrong.
Naseer
UVR
>
> UVR Sahib, as far as my meagre understanding of Farsi is concerned,
> your understanding/interpretation of the ash'aar is right on the spot.
> Now if this is achieved by the efforts of a "non-Farsi knowing"
> person, just imagine what you would be capable of achieving if you
> *actually* knew the language!!:)
Naseer ji,
I don't know what the smiley at the end of that statement
means, but I'll take it as a compliment!
I assure you I am deadly serious and not trying to show
any kind of false modesty by saying that I don't know Farsi.
I truly do not. You will most probably agree that in some
cases, it's possible to get the general import of what is
being said in a certain language by extrapolating one's
knowledge of a "nearby" language. For example, I can
also understand the meanings of some Punjabi and
Kannada songs, but I know neither of these languages.
With Farsi, occasionally Urdu lends me a helpful hand.
And let's not underestimate the usefulness of dictionaries.
-UVR.
Afzal A. Khan
> UVR and Afzal Sahibaan, aadaab.
>
> Gentlemen, I commend the humility of both of you!! Otherwise how would
> either of you be able to not only transcribe the language accurately
> but also, more importantly, translate it faithfully??
> Afzal Sahib, my understanding is that in..
>
> Az baal-o-par GHubaar-e-tamanna fishaaNda eem
> Bar shaaKH-e-gul giraaN na bawad aashiyaan-e-ma...
>
> the word is "buv-ad". However, I could be wrong.
>
> Naseer
You are quite correct; it should be "buwad".
Afzal
saigalfan
Attn: UVR, Zafar, Afzal A. Khan, Naseer and others who have
participated in this lively discussion on Saigal's Farsi songs
Dear Sirs,
I wish to post the following lyrics as well as their translation on
the Saigal website. I would be grateful for any suggestion to modify
the same are made. More importantly, translation of one of the Shers'
in the first song and two in the second one will enable complete this
collaborative exercise and help Saigal 'Fans' understand the true
import of these songs for the first time ever.
Regards
Surender
MAA RAA BA~GHAMZA KUSHT
Credits : Trascription & translation of first 4 stanzas : By UVR;
Transliteration of Last stanza / Maqta By Zafar
(Message posted in http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.indian.misc)
maa raa ba-Ghamza kusht o qazaa raa bahaana saaKht
Khud soo e maa na deed o hayaa raa bahaana saaKht
{{ hamein tirchhi nazar se maar diyaa, aur ilzaam maut ke sar maNRh
diya -- i.e., when asked what happened, the reply was something like
"alas! Death took him." Khud hi jaan boojh kar ham se taGhaaful bartaa
(= hamaari upekshaa kii), hamaari taraf naheen dekhaa, aur kah diyaa
ke "hamein sharm aati hai!" }}
raftam ba masjide k ba-beenam jamaal-e-dost
daste ba-ruKh kasheed o du'aa raa bahaana saaKht
{{masjid gaye the ham k apne dost ke husn kaa nazaara kar lein, magar
usne hamein dekhte hi apne chehre ko haathon se chhupaa liyaa, aur
bahaana banaa diyaa ki "hamne to du'aa ke liye haath uThaaye the"}}
daste ba dosh e Ghair nihaad az sar e karam
maa raa chooN deed o laGhzish-e-paa raa bahaana saaKht
{{ yoon to usne baRe pyaar se apna haath Ghair (= our rival in love)
ke kandhe par rakhaa thaa, lekin hamein dekhaa to kah diyaa k 'paaon
phisal gaya thaa' (= laGhzish-e-paa), i.e., ham to sirf sahaara le
rahe the, aur koi "aisi-vaisi" baat naheen hai. }}
zaahid na daasht taab e jamaal e paree ruKhaan
kunje giraft o yaad e Khudaa raa bahaana saaKht
{{"zaahid (priest) ji" mein itni taab (self-control) kahaan ki husn-
waalon ko dekh lein aur phir bhi aape mein raheN? asl kaaran to yahi
hai k janaab kyon kisi kone mein baiThe milte hain (kaheen kisee
haseen kaa saamna na ho jaaye!). lekin dikhaate yoon hain ki Khudaa
ki yaad mein magan hain. }}
Khoon e Qateel e be sar o paa raa bahaa e Kheesh
maaleedan e nigaar e hinaa raa bahaana saaKht
{{ ????? }}
MAA RAA BA~GHAMZA KUSHT
(An alternative literal translation By Naseer)
Trascription of first 4 stanzas : By UVR; Last stanza / Maqta By Zafar
(Messages posted in http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.indian.misc)
maa raa ba-Ghamza kusht o qazaa raa bahaana saaKht
Khud soo e maa na deed o hayaa raa bahaana saaKht
{{ mujhe (hameN) apne GHamze se maar Daalaa awr qazaa kaa bahaanah
kiyaa
merii (hamaarii) taraf KHud to nah dekhaa, magar Hayaa kaa bahaanah
kiyaa }}
raftam ba masjide k ba-beenam jamaal-e-dost
daste ba-ruKh kasheed o du'aa raa bahaana saaKht
{{ ek masjid meN gayaa kih apne dost kaa jamaal dekhuuN
haath(oN) ko apne chehre kii taraf kheNchaa (chhupaane ke liye) awr
du'aa kaa bahaanah kiyaa }}
daste ba dosh e Ghair nihaad az sar e karam
maa raa chooN deed o laGhzish-e-paa raa bahaana saaKht
{{ haath GHair ke kandhe par rakh diyaa us par mihr-baan ho kar
jab mujhe dekhaa to pair ke phisalne kaa bahaanah kiyaa }}
zaahid na daasht taab e jamaal e paree ruKhaan
kunje giraft o yaad e Khudaa raa bahaana saaKht
{{ zaahid ko in HasiinoN ke jamaal (ko dekhne) kii taab kahaaN
goshah-nashiinii iKHtiyaar kar lii awr KHudaa kaa bahaanah kiyaa }}
RANGEEN~TAR~AZ HINAA
Credits :
Trasliteration First & Last Sher by Afzal A. Khan; Second & Third Sher
-UVR ; Translation : UVR
(Messages posted in http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.indian.misc)
RaNgeeN~tar~az hinaa~st bahaar-o-KHizaan-e-ma
Bar~dast-e-KH(w)esh bosa zanad baaGHbaan-e-ma
{{ Rough English Rendition : Our Spring and Autumn are even more
colourful than "henna" (meh~Ndi). (So much so that) the gardener
kisses his own hand. I suspect that the reference here could be to the
Divine Gardener up above, Who is the Creator of all things. Possibly
the poet wants to say that even He is so pleased with His colourful
creation (the Spring and Autumn on our Earth) that He kisses His Own
Hand in sheer appreciation of the wonder He has wrought. But this
explanation is just speculation on my part. }}
maa Khasm raa z' raah-e-tawaazo kuneem dost
berooN gurazde(?) teerah(?) kasheed raaqibaan-e-maa (#2)
{{ ??? }}
chooN bed agarche teGh-e-zubaaneem sar-ba-sar
bande shudast be-samaree(?) bar zabaan-e-maa (#3)
{{ ??? }}
# 2 & 3 : [Words marked with (?) are those that are still
undeciphered.]
Az baal-o-par GHubaar-e-tamanna fishaaNda eem
Bar shaaKH-e-gul giraaN na buwad aashiyaan-e-ma
{{ Rough English Rendition : I have fluttered the (accumulated) dust
of (unfulfilled) desires off my wings so that the weight of my nest on
the branch of the flowery plant may not be too heavy. Although,
grammatically, the poet has used the plural number "we" or "hum" in
the sher, it is preferable to translate the sher as if it is in
singular number. "Hum" actually meaning "maiN" --- this often happens
in Urdu/Farsi poetry. }}
-------------------------------------
qure...@googlemail.com
> Khoon e Qateel e be sar o paa raa bahaa e Kheesh
> maaleedan e nigaar e hinaa raa bahaana saaKht
>
> ... which almost proves that the Ghazal is by Mirza Muhammad Hassan
> Qateel (1757-1818).
Zafar Sahib, aadaab,
I believe this shi'r is...
KHuun-i-Qatiil-i-be-sar-o-paa raa ba-paa-i-KHvesh
maaliid aan nigaar-o-Hinaa-raa bahaanah saaKHt
Qatiil-i-be-sar-o-paa* ke KHuun ko apne paaNo par
us maHbuub ne mal diyaa awr Hinaa kaa bahaanah kiyaa
be-sar-o-paa= destitute
Naseer
Afzal A. Khan
Not to put too fine a point.....
But the paragraphs in parentheses beginning with the words
"Rough English Rendition" contain my views. In fact, these
three words are sort of my copyright (!!) --- I always use
them when trying to translate or explain various verses.
If the missing words can be properly deciphered, I am sure
Naseer and Zafar Sahebaan would be able to complete the
explanation.
Afzal
qure...@googlemail.com
Could you please listen to the ash'aar again and see if they are by
any remote chance similar to what I have written below.
maa KHasm raa zi raah-i-tavaazu' kunem dost
biruun guzarad-e gar/ar tiir-i-kashiidah-i-raqiibaan-i-maa
chuuN bed agarchih teGH-zabaan-em sar-ba-sar
band shudast iin be-samar-ii bar zabaan-i-maa
Naseer
saigalfan
> On Sep 6, 6:31 am, saigalfan <surender...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have requested Dr Suresh S Chandvankar for a copy of the Hamraaz
> > book on Saigal. I am sure this will help me take care of a number of
> > errors spelling, transliteration and otherwise.
>
> Please do not rely on Hamraaz Sahab's book on Saigal, because, with
> due and great respect to him for his efforts on Geet Kosh and other
> work, he has a penchant for mis-spelling film titles too and using
> 'aa' or 'AA' where there is only 'a' or 'A' in the official title and
> 'ee' where there is only 'i'.
>
> So, as someone else suggested, please use original records and tapes
> you can get help atwww.giitaayan.com, but, I would prefer to publish
> on a website a song as 'Jab dil hi toot gaya' instead of 'jab dil hii
> TuuT gayaa'. iTRANS style listing of a song looks ugly if displayed
> in English on a web page.
>
> Asif
Dear Mr Asif,
Your point about use of iTrans style is well taken. You will now
notice that all songs titles in the Audio webpage have been changed.
This is also being done in respect of song list on the Lyrics page and
will be posted on the web soon. However, titles of the songs on the
individual song lyrics page will be attempted along with a
comprehensive review of the lyrics keeping in view film, MD and other
details as per published material from more than one source as has
been suggested during discussion.on this thread.
Regards
MV Surender
qure...@googlemail.com
As I do not have access to the audios of these two Ghazals, I can not
say if Saigal has sung this shi'r or not. I believe this is part of
the "bahaanah saaKHt" Ghazal.
aamad biruun-i KHaanah cho aavaaz-i man shaniid
baKHshiidan-i--nivaalah gadaa raa bahaanah saaKHt
aayaa ghar se baahar sun kar merii aavaaz
roTii dene ko bhikaarii kaa bahaanah kiyaa
Naseer
UVR
This sh'er has not been sung by Saigal. The maqta of the
Ghazal (posted by Zafar saahib) hasn't, either. The audio
of both Saigal Farsi Ghazals is on Surender sb's site! :-)
-UVR.
UVR
Naseer saahib,
The latter sh'er does sound very much as you have written
it, with the minor exception that I hear it as:
chooN bed agarche teGh-e-zabaaneem sar ba sar
*bande* shudast *(in?)* be-samaree bar zabaan-e-maa
He's very clearly saying "bande". I'm using (in?) because
(a) I can't very clearly make out whether Saigal is or isn't
saying 'in', and (b) 'iin' does not fit in the behr, but 'in', which
IMO is a commonly-seen-in-poetry contraction of it, does.
With respect to the former couplet, the second misr'a of it
as written by yourself does not seem to be what Saigal has
sung. Also, from a metric standpoint, it does not conform
(as written above) to the meter of the Ghazal.
-UVR.
UVR
>
>
> Attn: UVR, Zafar, Afzal A. Khan, Naseer and others who have
> participated in this lively discussion on Saigal's Farsi songs
> Dear Sirs,
> I wish to post the following lyrics as well as their translation on
> the Saigal website. I would be grateful for any suggestion to modify
> the same are made. More importantly, translation of one of the Shers'
> in the first song and two in the second one will enable complete this
> collaborative exercise and help Saigal 'Fans' understand the true
> import of these songs for the first time ever.
> Regards
> Surender
>
Shri Surender,
As far as I am concerned, I have no objection if my "contribution"
to this thread appears in the public domain, on your website or
elsewhere. However, I would like to gently suggest that it might
be better if you were to wait a day or two so that Messrs. Naseer
and Zafar have also had a chance to properly comment on this
Ghazal. In my opinion, it is important that the input of these two
(who actually know the Farsi language) also be recorded.
Another thing I would like to request is that if (when) these two
Ghazals and their translations/interpretations appear on your
website, that they kindly do so with proper credit being given
where it is due. In this regard, please note that in your post
(the one to which I am currently replying), the translation of the
first and last couplets of "rangeentar az hinaa'st" appears to
be ascribed to me -- but it is wholly the contribution of Afzal
Khan saahib. I'm sure this was an unintentional slip-up, but
one that is necessary to rectify.
I also think it would be good if the entire text that goes on your
website were proof-read :-) I find that I, for one, am particularly
predisposed towards making typographical errors of all kinds!
Regards,
-UVR.
> MAA RAA BA~GHAMZA KUSHT
> Credits : Trascription & translation of first 4 stanzas : By UVR;
> Transliteration of Last stanza / Maqta By Zafar
> (Message posted inhttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.indian.misc)
> (Messages posted inhttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.indian.misc)
>
> maa raa ba-Ghamza kusht o qazaa raa bahaana saaKht
> Khud soo e maa na deed o hayaa raa bahaana saaKht
>
> {{ mujhe (hameN) apne GHamze se maar Daalaa awr qazaa kaa bahaanah
> kiyaa
> merii (hamaarii) taraf KHud to nah dekhaa, magar Hayaa kaa bahaanah
> kiyaa }}
>
> raftam ba masjide k ba-beenam jamaal-e-dost
> daste ba-ruKh kasheed o du'aa raa bahaana saaKht
>
> {{ ek masjid meN gayaa kih apne dost kaa jamaal dekhuuN
> haath(oN) ko apne chehre kii taraf kheNchaa (chhupaane ke liye) awr
> du'aa kaa bahaanah kiyaa }}
>
> daste ba dosh e Ghair nihaad az sar e karam
> maa raa chooN deed o laGhzish-e-paa raa bahaana saaKht
>
> {{ haath GHair ke kandhe par rakh diyaa us par mihr-baan ho kar
> jab mujhe dekhaa to pair ke phisalne kaa bahaanah kiyaa }}
>
> zaahid na daasht taab e jamaal e paree ruKhaan
> kunje giraft o yaad e Khudaa raa bahaana saaKht
>
> {{ zaahid ko in HasiinoN ke jamaal (ko dekhne) kii taab kahaaN
> goshah-nashiinii iKHtiyaar kar lii awr KHudaa kaa bahaanah kiyaa }}
>
> RANGEEN~TAR~AZ HINAA
> Credits :
> Trasliteration First & Last Sher by Afzal A. Khan; Second & Third Sher
> -UVR ; Translation : UVR
> (Messages posted inhttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.indian.misc)
Zafar
Naseer saahib:
Although my "source" is still adament about the original version, I
think your she'r is much more plausible, as it gives a clear-cut
subject, which was lacking from the previous version.
UVR saahib:
I have nothing valuable to add to your transcription/translation ...
Naseer saahib has already explained some of the points in detail.
In any case, my Farsi is no better than yours by any stretch of the
imagination ... and I must say you have done a commendable job with
the Ghazals: it's not easy to make out the correct lyrics out of
Saigal's rendition.
Zafar
qure...@googlemail.com
UVR jii,
I seem to have spent hours yesterday listening to this Ghazal of
Saigal's. He seems to have been involved in a competition where the
idea was to avoid being understood. Well, I certainly have awarded
first prize to him for his efforts!!
I don't think I have been able to take this exercise much forward in
understanding the two elusive couplets.
chuuN bed garche teGH-i-ZubaaN-em sar-ba-sar
band-e shudast be-samar-ii bar zubaan-i-maa
Now, taking metre constraints into account, could the wording in the
first line be..
teGH-zubaan-em where the izaafat is not really an izaafat, but a niim
fatHa uttered by Saigal to facilitate the pronunciation flow?
Anyway, based on what is written above, which is almost identical to
what you had, here is an attempt to translate it. By the way, I could
not hear any trace of iin or iiN.
Although my sword-tongue is entirely like a (swaying) willow
(This willow's) fruitlessness has become a knot upon my tongue
I have not yet given up on the "beruuN.........-i-maa" shi'r. In his
first attempt, the word after beruuN seems to be "guraz", but second
time round he seems to say "guzar". I am not sure if he says "tiir" or
"tiirah=darkness). If the word after this word is "kashiid" which I am
not certain about, then "tiir" would make sense. Again, instead of
"tiirah kashiid", which does n't seem right to me, "tiir kashiid" with
a possible half an "a" after "tiir" could be what is being said. For
"raaqibaan", again I am not 100% certain. If he is saying this word,
there does not seem to be any trace of the "i" in raaqib. Is he saying
raaqbaan-i-maa?
I wonder, rather than blaming Saigal marHuum, we ought to be searching
for a slightly better recording, if at all possible?
Finally, I would like to echoe Zafar Sahib's sentiments in your and
Afzal Sahib's admirable efforts at deciphering these couplets. This is
no mean task!!!
Naseer
saigalfan
>
> - Show quoted text -
OBITUARY : CLASSIC FILM MUSIC COLLECTOR PASSES AWAY
I regret to inform of the sad demise of Mr Hem Chandra Jain, 75 yrs,
a lover of classic Hindi film music, on 14th September, 2007 at Agra,
India. His son informs us that he had heart troubles for a long time
but the end came suddenly and all too soon.
This marks the passing away of yet another of the rare species of
'Collectors' who were witness to the classic Indian film era and who
helped preserve the rich musical heritage of the Indian sub-continent
for posterity.
Mr Jain provided valuable insights into the formative period of the
film music and mentored me in upgrading the website devoted to KL
Saigal at www.kundanlalsaigal.com. Thanks entirely to his support and
encouragement, all the songs 'known' to have been rendered by KL
Saigal will soon be posted on this site.
I gratefully acknowledge his contributing several rare songs which
have been the exclusive preserve of 'collectors' so far.
May his soul rest in peace.
MV Surender
Naseer
The mysterious couplet is as follows.
maa KHasm raa zi raah-i-tavaazu' kunem dost
beruuN barad zi tiir kajii-raa kamaan-i-maa
Literal translation.
ham apne dushman ko tavaazu' se dost banaa lete haiN
hamaarii kamaan teRhe-pan ko tiir se nikaal detii hai!!
Naseer
saigalfan
Dear Naseer Saheb,
Aadaab. Thank you for the translations.
I am deeply indebted to you and the other gentlemen Mr UVR, Mr Zafar
and Mr Afzal Khan for the transliteration as well as translation of
these Persian Ghazals which I have been looking forward to for some
time now and which will benefit other music lovers. I will be posting
these at the Saigal website soon.
With kind regards
MV Surender
Naseer
MV Surender Sahib, namaste.
You are welcome. If I may ask you a small favour. On the website you
have listed the lyrics under different languages. There are several
Ghazals which Ghalib and other Urdu poets have written. Would it not
be better to have written all these songs under the title of Urdu/
Hindi....Hindi/Urdu? This is the least amount of homage we can pay to
the great Urdu masters, don't you think?
Best Wishes,
Naseer
saigalfan
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mr Naseer Qureshi Saheb
Thanks for the suggestion. I have changed the title on the Audio Page
of the website which now reads as 'Hindi / Urdu Songs & Ghazals :'.
I do plan to list out Ghazals separately when I reorganise the pages
and list out audio files under different categories.
Regards
Surender
Naseer
MV Surender jii, namaste.
Thank you for changing Hindi songs to Hindi/Urdu songs.
Below is a copy of my post dated 15/09/07. It is still showing on my
screen. There may be a problem somewhere if you can not see it.
....................................................................................................................
UVR jii,
Naseer
...............................................................................................................
So, I shall have another attempt at translating this couplet.
chuuN bed garche teGH-zabaaN-em sar-ba-sar
band-e shudast be-samar-ii bar zubaan-i-maa
My razor (sharp)-tongue (can waggle) like the (swaying, fruitless)
willow
(But alas) this fruitlessness has become a knot upon my tongue
I think this can be paraphrased something like this.
I am quite capable of using my razor-sharpe tongue which can waggle
just like a swaying willow. But just as a willow, despite it's
graceful sway, is fruitless, words uttered by my tongue will also be
of no use and hence consider me tongue-tied.
Perhaps Afzal Sahib, UVR Sahib and Zafar Sahib might wish to add to
this humble effort.
I have been in touch with a gentleman (Mr.Jamil Ahmed) who used to be
very active in ALUP in the past. He states that in..
raftam ba-masjid-e kih bi-biinam jamaal-i-dost
dast ba-ruKH kashiid-o-du'aa-raa bahaanah saaKHt
the second line should read...
dast-ash ba-ruKH kashiid-o-du'aa -raa bahaanah saaKHt
and that this brings the line in meter.
Best Regards,
Naseer
UVR
With all due respect to Jamil saahib's superior knowledge of
Persian and understanding of poetry, I submit that Saigal is
singing:
daste ba-ruKh kasheed o du'aa raa bahaana saaKht
That is, the first word of the line is "daste" (rhymes with
raste -- paths). Metrically this does not present any issues.
Grammatically? I don't know. But 'daste' is what I hear
Saigal singing.
Regarding "zubaan-eem" vs. "zubaan-em" -- what sound
does "em" represent? Short "e" as in "jaanem" (jaanam,
merii jaan) or a long "e" as in, say, "prem"? If it's the latter,
it poses no problems, but the former does (metric).
-UVR.
-UVR.
Naseer
UVR jii, UVR jii (In response to your UVR, UVR:)
To be fair to Jamil Sahib, I do not believe he has heard the Saigal
rendering. What he is saying is that in the actual poem the words are
"dast-ash ba-ruKH kashiid". I too did not listen to this link on the
Saigal site as I had been devoting all my energy to the "beruuN bar-
ad..." line. Perhaps I ought to have listened to the link first. Had I
done so, I would not have brought in Jamil Sahib's "version". As a
matter of interest, Jamil Sahib also says that "raftam ba-masjid-e kih
bi-biinam jamaal-i-dost" line in the original poem is " "raftam ba-
masjide pay-i- nazzarah-i-ruKh-ash".
Yes "kunem" rhymes with "prem".
Naseer, Naseer
m.reza...@gmail.com
> www.kundanlalsaigal.com has been upgraded to include the single
> largest collection of Saigal songs (168 mp3 files) including movie
> track versions, lyrics for over 125 songs (iTrans), ready to print bi-
> lingual Song Book, links to video clips of movie tracks of song
> sequences, the singer's horoscope and astrological charts, Fans
> singing Saigal numbers and much more.
>
> I am hopeful of soon collecting and uploading all the songs 'known' to
> have been rendered by Saigal. Completing the Bengali section with the
> remaining songs will probably take a little longer.
>
> Suggestions if any and help in making the site more comprehensive will
> be welcome and highly appreciated.
>
> Regards
>
> MV Surender