Sureele Sapne web site update - Song of the Week page
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
This is an invitation, for both first-timers and past visitors, to
visit our website at www.sureelesapne.com. We have most recently added
a "Song of the Week" segment which we hope to update frequently.
To go directly to the song of the week page, go to:
www.sureelesapne.com/song.html.
Please take a few minutes to visit us and give us your feedback.
Thanks,
Sanjeev and Armeen Ramabhadran
Sudhir
YOU ARE REAL MONKEY
===================
The MP3 File of song: Thandi Thandi Sawan Ki Phuhar at your site is a
new version by ??? singer. The conclusion is based on following
facts:
1 The singer is NOT Asha Bhonsle
2 The instruments are Electronics. None were available in 1955/56
when this song was recorded for Jagte Raho
3 Your song length is: 4:13 minutes, while the film version
is only: 3:41 minutes (I have the 78rpm version also, which is
3:18 minutes long). The film version is available on a tape:
Jagte Raho + R.K. Films Hits
Do You know how to read the Inlay Card of a Tape/CD ? Most probably,
you
downloaded this MP3 file from some site and then marked it as
original song from film: Jagte Raho.
Be careful as to what you do. This time I am getting you off easy.
Another mistake, and you will be labelled as: IDIOT
SUDHIR
MP3 file size: 4,064,832 bytes
--------------------------
sanj...@aol.com (Sanjeev Ramabhadran) wrote in message
SKalra902
>Mr. Ramabhadadran
...snipped...
>Do You know how to read the Inlay Card of a Tape/CD ? Most probably,
>you
>downloaded this MP3 file from some site and then marked it as
>original song from film: Jagte Raho.
>
>Be careful as to what you do. This time I am getting you off easy.
>Another mistake, and you will be labelled as: IDIOT
>
>
>
>SUDHIR
Never expected a gentleman like Sudhir to use the kind of words he has.
Can we not be polite to each other while making our point?
In a way, this sort of attitude also explains what we see in the Hindi films
and on our visits to India, i.e., people passing judgment without listening to
the other. No wonder we Indians are called (behind our backs, of course) the
most rude people.
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Vijay Kumar K
> Mr. Ramabhadadran
>
> YOU ARE REAL MONKEY
> ===================
>
> The MP3 File of song: Thandi Thandi Sawan Ki Phuhar at your site is a
> new version by ??? singer. The conclusion is based on following
> facts:
>
> 1 The singer is NOT Asha Bhonsle
>
> 2 The instruments are Electronics. None were available in 1955/56
> when this song was recorded for Jagte Raho
>
> 3 Your song length is: 4:13 minutes, while the film version
> is only: 3:41 minutes (I have the 78rpm version also, which is
> 3:18 minutes long). The film version is available on a tape:
> Jagte Raho + R.K. Films Hits
>
Wow. Dalton. Folks, we have a genius in our midst.
>
> Do You know how to read the Inlay Card of a Tape/CD ?
Do you know how to read the text on a web-site.
Did you see anything on that web-site? Do you know who Sanjeev & Armeen are and
what that web-site supports? Answer these questions first, and then the rest of
the doubts in your head will be cleared.
>
> Be careful as to what you do. This time I am getting you off easy.
> Another mistake, and you will be labelled as: IDIOT
>
Pipe down.
taano.n se kyaa paayaa chaahataa hai tuu Gaalib
tere bemehar kahane se vo tujh pe maharabaa.N kyo.n ho?
Vijay
(I hope I got that quote right)
Vijay Kumar K
the content and layout of course, and also by your respective bios. I have had
first hand experience of your virtuosity, but had little idea of the amount of
hard work and training that has gone into that...
Coming to the song in question, Armeen's singing is so mmmm... I dunno why, I
was reminded of chhoTaa saa baalamaa (Asha from Ragini) when I heard that song.
I know, it is not the same tune by any stretch of imagination, but... I hope to
go back to your site and sample some of the other song clips soon.
Keep up the good work and best of luck.
Vijay
Anant Rege
"Sudhir" <sudh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c2632c6.01090...@posting.google.com...
>
>
> SUDHIR
>
I always enjoy it when a fool declares to the whole world, '
I am an idiot', without realizing it himself. Keep up the
good work Mr. Sudhir.
Anant
Neha
>
> YOU ARE REAL MONKEY
> ===================
And you dont understand English.
> The MP3 File of song: Thandi Thandi Sawan Ki Phuhar at your site is a
> new version by ??? singer. The conclusion is based on following
> facts:
>
> 1 The singer is NOT Asha Bhonsle
Of course it is not. The article written by Armeen says so:
"Asha Bhosle's original rendition is a poignant....". and goes on to say:
"While Sanjeev has always considered himself a huge fan of Asha Bhosle,
this song is, without a doubt, Armeen's contribution to the Sureele Sapne
repertoire."
> 2 The instruments are Electronics. None were available in 1955/56
> when this song was recorded for Jagte Raho
Of course they are not. Since it is not the original version and has been
recorded in the present.
> 3 Your song length is: 4:13 minutes, while the film version
> is only: 3:41 minutes (I have the 78rpm version also, which is
> 3:18 minutes long). The film version is available on a tape:
> Jagte Raho + R.K. Films Hits
And your point is?
Oh I see...that you have the 78 rpm and the film version!! So?
> Do You know how to read the Inlay Card of a Tape/CD ? Most probably,
> you downloaded this MP3 file from some site and then marked it as
> original song from film: Jagte Raho.
Why dont you first learn to read and write English before shooting off
your big mouth?
> Be careful as to what you do. This time I am getting you off easy.
> Another mistake, and you will be labelled as: IDIOT
And you be careful in what you write. If you cannot appreciate other
people's work then shut up!
--
Neha
vsr...@mailandnews.com
>
> sudh...@hotmail.com (Sudhir) wrote:
>
> >Mr. Ramabhadadran
>
> ...snipped...
>
> >Do You know how to read the Inlay Card of a Tape/CD ? Most probably,
> >you
> >downloaded this MP3 file from some site and then marked it as
> >original song from film: Jagte Raho.
> >
> >Be careful as to what you do. This time I am getting you off easy.
> >Another mistake, and you will be labelled as: IDIOT
> >
> >
> >
> >SUDHIR
>
> Never expected a gentleman like Sudhir to use the kind of words he has.
>
> Can we not be polite to each other while making our point?
>
> In a way, this sort of attitude also explains what we see in the Hindi films
> and on our visits to India, i.e.,
> people passing judgment without listening to the other.
This observation is quite correct.
However, your qualifying it with "on our visit to India" suggests that
it is happening only in India whereas rest of the world is
politeness-incarnate, I can not nod in affirmative.
Good and bad behaviour are adapted by the entire humanity, superceding
the boundaries of nations.
> No wonder we Indians are called (behind our backs, of course) the
> most rude people.
>
please give url/book/ author/....
Never heard that indians are called that. Illiterate, yes. poor, yes.
snake-charmers and black-magicians, yes. Corrupt, maybe.
but not rude.
Satishji, maybe it is time for you to visit India again and see the
truth of all of your accusations.
> Happy listenings.
>
> Satish Kalra
Whoever condemns Hindi films for preaching rudeness must have forgetten
hundreds, rather thousands of hindi films which had shown sacrificing
every big or small thing for relations, love, human values.
Dozens of van-demme, bruce willis, schwargennezer(sp?) movies have shown
senseless incessant violence. Probably, they are responsible for
terrorism in kashmir and strained indo-pak relations.
SUDHIR JI:
We all are curious to know what caused you to come out so strongly on
the poor fellow. One little mistake in a big beautiful site, and you
gave it to him. Was a direct mail wrongly got posted to entire ng? Is
there any past transaction which got evened?
But can anything be considered evened when someone is labelled IDIOT in
caps.
I opologise to Sanjeev ji for the hurt he might have felt. Please
forgive us.
-Rawat
Ket...@att.net
sudh...@hotmail.com says...
> 1 The singer is NOT Asha Bhonsle
Any idea on how you came to this conclusion? I am not saying you are right or
wrong, just wanted to know your process of arriving at this conclusion. Is it
just "your ears" that tell you this?
> 2 The instruments are Electronics. None were available in 1955/56
> when this song was recorded for Jagte Raho
Were you there in the recording studio? AFAIK, the been sound in Nagin, which
was in 1954, was played by Kalyanji on an electronic claviola. Could someone
confirm this? If so, then electronic instruments WERE available.
> 3 Your song length is: 4:13 minutes, while the film version
> is only: 3:41 minutes (I have the 78rpm version also, which is
>3:18 minutes long). The film version is available on a tape:
> Jagte Raho + R.K. Films Hits
Could there never be a third version of this song, besides the 78rpm and the
film version?
>Do You know how to read the Inlay Card of a Tape/CD ? Most probably,
>you
>downloaded this MP3 file from some site and then marked it as
>original song from film: Jagte Raho.
Possible. However the other possibilities that I mention, cannot just be thrown
away either.
>Be careful as to what you do. This time I am getting you off easy.
Do you mean "letting" instead of "getting"? The entire meaning of the sentence
changes in this case if you use the wrong word.
>SUDHIR
Ketan
SKalra902
...snipped...
>However, your qualifying it with "on our visit to India" suggests that
>it is happening only in India whereas rest of the world is
>politeness-incarnate, I can not nod in affirmative.
See my statement also being qualified by the word "also" in
>> In a way, this sort of attitude also explains what we see in the Hindi
>films ====
>> No wonder we Indians are called (behind our backs, of course) the
>> most rude people.
>>
>
>please give url/book/ author/....
>
Not polite to give away such sources of information. :)
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
SKalra902
VSRawat wrote:
...snipped...
>Never heard that indians are called that. Illiterate, yes. poor, yes.
>snake-charmers and black-magicians, yes. Corrupt, maybe.
>
>but not rude.
It is a sign of 'politeness' not to call a rude person rude. :)
>
>Satishji, maybe it is time for you to visit India again and see the
>truth of all of your accusations.
>
My observations are made from visits not only to India, but also many other
countries.
In a way, I am glad that someone like Rawat took up arguing in favor of his
countrymen, because it proves people don't like to be labeled - especially
negatively. It did not give me any pleasure saying what I did, but I felt I
had to in view of the language used in the original post.
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Sudhir
==================================================
I went to the subject site and after reading part of the article,
I found that there is an MP3 or WAV file, which I Can download.
I have the song, but am not too pleased with the sound quality of
HMV tape. Thinking, that may be the sound quality of the song
will be better, I downloaded the same. Since there is no listing
of the singer, I assumed that it is the original song.
Well, after 10 minutes of download time, I hear the song and
got upset. If the gentlemen had listed at their site that the
song is a version number, then I won't have bothered about
download.
It seems they still don't know as to who sang the song (May be
it is 'Aunt Jamila')
------------------
Remarks about Electronic musical instruments
============================================
Prior to the invention of transistors, the electronic equipments
(mostly
amplifiers) were equipped with electron tubes. Becuase of their
bulkiness
and heat generated, one could not use them in musical instruments.
The word 'ELECTRONIC' is generally associated with transistors and not
electron tubes.
I have also read in the book 'Encyclopaedia of Indian Cinema' that
the
instrument used in film: Nagin was an electronic one. However,
I have some reservations about this statement. Most popular
electronic instruments these days are keyboard type. To find out if
this is true or
not, one has to check only the year around which the transistor was
invented by Bell Labs and add about 5 years, for it to be incorporated
in
subject musical instrument.
SUDHIR
Abhay Jain
> Sanjeev, I am a first-timer at your site.
What is the URL for Sanjeev's site??
Abhay Jain
>
> Vijay
Arun Sampath
"Sudhir" <sudh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> I went to the subject site and after reading part of the article,
> I found that there is an MP3 or WAV file, which I Can download.
> I have the song, but am not too pleased with the sound quality of
> HMV tape. Thinking, that may be the sound quality of the song
> will be better, I downloaded the same. Since there is no listing
> of the singer, I assumed that it is the original song.
>
> Well, after 10 minutes of download time, I hear the song and
> got upset. If the gentlemen had listed at their site that the
> song is a version number, then I won't have bothered about
> download.
It was not obvious to me either that the song was not the original but after
rereading the the text, it became clear. But that in no way justifies such
harsh language. It is amazing that you didn't have one nice thing to say
about the site or its content!
Armeen needs to be credited for doing a great job on the site. In fact, she
has done a great job on the CD insert of Sanjeev's Rafi songs CD too. May be
she should be hired to design the RMIM website :-) About their singing
talent, enough has been said already by many people including myself.
A
Ket...@att.net
neha...@hotmail.com says...
While Sudhir's outburst was way over board, there is some cause for confusion :
>And you dont understand English.
>
>> The MP3 File of song: Thandi Thandi Sawan Ki Phuhar at your site is a
>> new version by ??? singer. The conclusion is based on following
>> facts:
>>
>> 1 The singer is NOT Asha Bhonsle
>
>Of course it is not. The article written by Armeen says so:
>"Asha Bhosle's original rendition is a poignant....". and goes on to say:
This statement in no way means that this song is not a new version released by
HMV also sung by Asha. HMV of late has been doing that--releasing a new slower
version of Kishore's "Mere samne waali khidki main", and Kishore's version of
"Ek din bik jaayega", where we only heard the Mukesh version till now. For Jagte
Raho itself, they released "Jaago Mohan pyaare" with extended interludes. So why
could this not be a new/third release of the same song? AFAIK, there exists 3
versions of "Piya tose" out there.
>"While Sanjeev has always considered himself a huge fan of Asha Bhosle,
>this song is, without a doubt, Armeen's contribution to the Sureele Sapne
>repertoire."
That is where the problem lies. The top of the article says "Thandi thandi..."
by Armeen. What does that mean? Is the write-up by Armeen. Or is the song by
Armeen? Then towards the end that statement about this being "Armeen's
contribution to the Sureele Sapne repertoire" is still ambiguous. What
contribution is being referred to here? The write-up or the singing? If you take
the "by Armeen" at the top of the page to mean write-up, why should this mean
something different?
I don't mean to nit-pick Sanjeev/Armeen's fine write-up/site/music, and their
hard-work, but considering that I myself fell into the confusion on what
Armeen's role was, I can understand someone else making the same mistake. That
in no way excuses the language used, nor the comparison to Sanjeev's simian
genetics/ancestors.
>> 2 The instruments are Electronics. None were available in 1955/56
>> when this song was recorded for Jagte Raho
>
>Of course they are not. Since it is not the original version and has been
>recorded in the present.
From the web-site :
http://www.pbs.org/transistor/album1/index.html
"Bell Labs decided to unveil the invention on June 30, 1948. With the help of
engineer John Pierce, who wrote science fiction in his spare time, Bell Labs
settled on the name "transistor"-- combining the ideas of "trans-resistance"
with the names of other devices like thermistors."
Leaving 5 years for it to be incorporated into musical instruments, it still
leaves the possibility of an electronic instrument being there for both Nagin
and Jagte Raho.
<further examples of Sudhir's and Neha's fine English deleted>
Ketan
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
sudh...@hotmail.com (Sudhir) wrote in message news:<c2632c6.01090...@posting.google.com>...
> Mr. Ramabhadadran
Though I don't expect any spellchecker to catch this mistake, I was
hoping you'd realize you've added a few letters to my name...
>
> YOU ARE REAL MONKEY
> ===================
And you are just pretending to be one?
>
> The MP3 File of song: Thandi Thandi Sawan Ki Phuhar at your site is a
> new version by ??? singer. The conclusion is based on following
> facts:
>
> 1 The singer is NOT Asha Bhonsle
>
> 2 The instruments are Electronics. None were available in 1955/56
> when this song was recorded for Jagte Raho
>
> 3 Your song length is: 4:13 minutes, while the film version
> is only: 3:41 minutes (I have the 78rpm version also, which is
> 3:18 minutes long).
Your detective work is quite commendible. You got it right :-).
Give me a break. There are many sites which feature original versions
of old songs. However, we are aspiring performers and the whole
*point* of having a website is to share information about and
renditions by *us*. There was never meant to be any confusion that
this rendition is by *Armeen Ramabhadran*, *not* Asha Bhosle. That was
the whole intent of writing "by Armeen". I didn't realize it was
necessary to say:
Vocals, Page Layout: Armeen Ramabhadran
Violin, Tabla, Keyboard, Recording, Written Article: Sanjeev
Ramabhadran
> The film version is available on a tape: Jagte Raho + R.K. Films Hits
It sure is, because that's where we heard it. Happy?
>
> Do You know how to read the Inlay Card of a Tape/CD ? Most probably,
> you
> downloaded this MP3 file from some site and then marked it as
> original song from film: Jagte Raho.
What for? The original, though uncommon, is surely available in the
cassette you mention.
> Be careful as to what you do. This time I am getting you off easy.
> Another mistake, and you will be labelled as: IDIOT
Why wait for another mistake? I have no problem labeling myself an
IDIOT *now*...
> MP3 file size: 4,064,832 bytes
Yes, we're working on our compression rate as we speak.
Cheers,
Sanjeev
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
> it is 'Aunt Jamila')
What is that supposed to mean? Everyone else seems to have figured out
who sang it without burning too many brain cells. That too, what are
the chances that some guy would go searching long and hard for a
*cover version* of this song?
I am sorry the sound quality on your (original) cassette is not good,
but chances are my (original) cassette isn't any better. It somehow
doesn't at all detract from my pure enjoyment of the song.
Sanjeev
Sandy
I not only visited the "song of the week" page but the entire site.
My compliments for a well-designed site.
As regards the song extracts I have the following comments.
- As one can expect from his credentials, Sanjeev is very good.
However I feel that with his talent, he should move beyond
being a Rafi-clone (or singing songs of other singers)
and try to make his own mark. Try your hand at Bollywood or
some private albums rather than singing at desi functions in
New Jersey and repenting at old age for not trying.
- I am surprised at the choice of songs in the Rafi tape. Most
are very mediocre.
- To put it bluntly, Armeen is hopeless. I listened to most of the
songs in the site and she has made a mess of gems by both Asha
and Lata. Her voice quality is poor. I was even disappointed by
the classical songs.
- However Armeen has to be commended for the excellent work on
the web-page design.
There were grounds for confusion regarding the song credits but
that doesn't justify Sudhir's intemperate remarks or Ketan's
asinine remarks (as usual).
Ciao,
Sandy
Ket...@att.net
skhu...@hotmail.com says...
>- As one can expect from his credentials, Sanjeev is very good.
> However I feel that with his talent, he should move beyond
> being a Rafi-clone (or singing songs of other singers)
> and try to make his own mark. Try your hand at Bollywood or
> some private albums rather than singing at desi functions in
> New Jersey and repenting at old age for not trying.
>
>- I am surprised at the choice of songs in the Rafi tape. Most
> are very mediocre.
>
>- To put it bluntly, Armeen is hopeless. I listened to most of the
> songs in the site and she has made a mess of gems by both Asha
> and Lata. Her voice quality is poor. I was even disappointed by
> the classical songs.
>
>- However Armeen has to be commended for the excellent work on
> the web-page design.
>
>There were grounds for confusion regarding the song credits but
>that doesn't justify Sudhir's intemperate remarks or Ketan's
>asinine remarks (as usual).
Oh great! Just what RMIM needs. Another wanna-be, who can not only recognize
asses, but thinks that while others remarks are "intemperate", his are merely
"blunt".
>Sandy
^^^^^^^
Being blunt as regards your grey matter? Would you have said "Rocky" when you
were young?
Ketan
vsr...@mailandnews.com
>
> sanj...@aol.com (Sanjeev Ramabhadran) wrote in message news:<5ed58637.01090...@posting.google.com>...
> > Hi RMIMers-
> >
> > This is an invitation, for both first-timers and past visitors, to
> > visit our website at www.sureelesapne.com. We have most recently added
> > a "Song of the Week" segment which we hope to update frequently.
> >
> > To go directly to the song of the week page, go to:
> >
> > www.sureelesapne.com/song.html.
> >
> > Please take a few minutes to visit us and give us your feedback.
>
> I not only visited the "song of the week" page but the entire site.
> My compliments for a well-designed site.
>
> As regards the song extracts I have the following comments.
>
> - As one can expect from his credentials, Sanjeev is very good.
> However I feel that with his talent, he should move beyond
> being a Rafi-clone (or singing songs of other singers)
> and try to make his own mark. Try your hand at Bollywood or
> some private albums rather than singing at desi functions in
> New Jersey and repenting at old age for not trying.
I wonder whether sanjeev should sing sonu nigam's current song.
Sonu is the nearest voice to rafi but falls short by a big gap, maybe
sanjeev could go nearer to rafi.
It does not mean to imply that sonu's or sanjeev's original efforts are
less pious. Originalily in voice and style is the best thing both should
explore and maintain.
-Rawat
Sandy
Glad we have no disagreement over the quality of your remarks in this
and other threads! I was offering feedback as was sought by Sanjeev, not
calling someone an idiot and more. My apologies for not complying with
the mutual-backslapping tradition that seems prevalent in RMIM.
>
> >Sandy
> ^^^^^^^
> Being blunt as regards your grey matter? Would you have said "Rocky" when you
> were young?
Sandeep (if that pleases you)
>
>
> Ketan
Arun Sampath
"Sandy" <skhu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> - To put it bluntly, Armeen is hopeless. I listened to most of the
> songs in the site and she has made a mess of gems by both Asha
> and Lata. Her voice quality is poor. I was even disappointed by
> the classical songs.
You complain about Sudhir's and Ketan's remarks (though I don't know what
Ketan said that was asinine) but then proceed to dish out your own blunt
critique. It reminds me of an ad on TV from AIG which compares critics
versus performers. This is not to say that criticism is useless. Just temper
it with credit where it is due. Every singer, amateur or professional has
his/her strengths and weaknesses. IMO Armeen is talented and she needs to
work a little on her tonal quality and try to sing "more from the stomach
and not from the mouth" as my music teacher used to tell me. About Sanjeev,
I like his slow, romantic, sad and classical renditions as opposed to his
renditions of outgoing/happy songs like "jiya o", "chalkaae jaam", "kuch
kuch hota hai" etc. He somehow seems to lose his touch when rendering such
songs.
My two cents......
A
Ket...@att.net
>> >- To put it bluntly, Armeen is hopeless. I listened to most of the
>> > songs in the site and she has made a mess of gems by both Asha
>> > and Lata. Her voice quality is poor. I was even disappointed by
>> > the classical songs.
>> >There were grounds for confusion regarding the song credits but
>> >that doesn't justify Sudhir's intemperate remarks or Ketan's
>> >asinine remarks (as usual).
>>
>> Oh great! Just what RMIM needs. Another wanna-be, who can not only recognize
>> asses, but thinks that while others remarks are "intemperate", his are merely
>> "blunt".
>
>Glad we have no disagreement over the quality of your remarks in this
>and other threads! I was offering feedback as was sought by Sanjeev, not
You were offering feedback and what do you think Sudhir and I were doing?
Playing gilli-danda? Sudhir was offering his feedback(even if it was erroneous
and intemperate) on the song and I was offering feedback about the write-up.
Since you yourself say that there were grounds for confusion, you seem to agree
with us. That would make your remarks equally asinine. What time-shift would you
prefer to bray in?
>calling someone an idiot and more. My apologies for not complying with
"Look at me--I am so pure, I only called Armeen hopeless, and never called
Sanjeev an idiot". That's pretty much what you are trying to say aren't you?
Dude, if you are that pure, go jump in the Ganga yaar, and make it pure. Don't
pollute this group with your brand of purity.
>the mutual-backslapping tradition that seems prevalent in RMIM.
No, but we do have a butt-kicking tradition. You just qualified to receive one.
Ketan
Sandy
> "Sandy" <skhu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > - To put it bluntly, Armeen is hopeless. I listened to most of the
> > songs in the site and she has made a mess of gems by both Asha
> > and Lata. Her voice quality is poor. I was even disappointed by
> > the classical songs.
>
>
> You complain about Sudhir's and Ketan's remarks (though I don't know what
> Ketan said that was asinine) but then proceed to dish out your own blunt
I have been reading RMIM for almost a year and find that Ketan is one
of the most idiotic around. His arguments are mostly pointless, long-winded,
gratuitous and yes - asinine. His recent post was one such, relatively
minor, instance. And then there is Chetan whose only job seems to be
scolding those who contribute a lot more to RMIM than he does and
flaunting his scant knowledge of classical. How can people tolerate
his arrogance and rude behaviour? If he is such a devotee of ITRANS,
why doesn't he post any songs in ITRANS or correct other people's
posts? All he does is lecture others.
Talking about arrogance, in one recent post, he was very critical of
almost all the great male singers (Rafi, Talat, Mukesh, Manna). And
I am being crucified for criticising Armeen!
> critique. It reminds me of an ad on TV from AIG which compares critics
> versus performers. This is not to say that criticism is useless. Just temper
> it with credit where it is due. Every singer, amateur or professional has
This is interesting. You pick out the only part of my post that is negative
and expanded on it. Rest of all was in praise of the site and Sanjeev (for
his singing) and Armeen (for web-designing). You have left out all of that.
> his/her strengths and weaknesses. IMO Armeen is talented and she needs to
> work a little on her tonal quality and try to sing "more from the stomach
> and not from the mouth" as my music teacher used to tell me. About Sanjeev,
> I like his slow, romantic, sad and classical renditions as opposed to his
> renditions of outgoing/happy songs like "jiya o", "chalkaae jaam", "kuch
> kuch hota hai" etc. He somehow seems to lose his touch when rendering such
> songs.
I agree with the above. The "hopeless" part was uncalled for. She can
improve with time if she can accept constructive criticism such as
yours. If there is no criticism how will she even know.
Sandeep
>
> My two cents......
>
> A
Ket...@att.net
skhu...@hotmail.com says...
>> You complain about Sudhir's and Ketan's remarks (though I don't know what
>> Ketan said that was asinine) but then proceed to dish out your own blunt
>
>I have been reading RMIM for almost a year and find that Ketan is one
>of the most idiotic around. His arguments are mostly pointless, long-winded,
>gratuitous and yes - asinine. His recent post was one such, relatively
Wow! We have a new definition of unilateralism--"I can't understand what someone
has written, so HE must he dumb, not me".
It is interesting to note, that although you find my arguments pointless,
long-winded, etc etc, you still make it a point to read them. I am truly touched
by the display of loyalty you have shown. You must really have nothing much to
do in life, and few if any friends, if you spend time reading pointless,
long-winded arguments. The word "loser" comes to mind here, but I will be
charitable. I will merely think of you as the "less-brained". I am also pleased
to note that I am only "one" of the most idiotic around. No doubt you have
reserved the title of "most" idiotic around for yourself, right? I could ask for
a re-vote, re-count, but honestly, I agree.
>minor, instance. And then there is Chetan whose only job seems to be
>scolding those who contribute a lot more to RMIM than he does and
>flaunting his scant knowledge of classical. How can people tolerate
>his arrogance and rude behaviour? If he is such a devotee of ITRANS,
"I am holier than thou, others are the infidels". Are you by any chance related
to Bin Laden?
>why doesn't he post any songs in ITRANS or correct other people's
>posts? All he does is lecture others.
>Talking about arrogance, in one recent post, he was very critical of
>almost all the great male singers (Rafi, Talat, Mukesh, Manna). And
>I am being crucified for criticising Armeen!
Blessed are those, who don't think, for they have no worries on this earth.
>> his/her strengths and weaknesses. IMO Armeen is talented and she needs to
>> work a little on her tonal quality and try to sing "more from the stomach
>> and not from the mouth" as my music teacher used to tell me. About Sanjeev,
>> I like his slow, romantic, sad and classical renditions as opposed to his
>> renditions of outgoing/happy songs like "jiya o", "chalkaae jaam", "kuch
>> kuch hota hai" etc. He somehow seems to lose his touch when rendering such
>> songs.
>
>I agree with the above. The "hopeless" part was uncalled for. She can
>improve with time if she can accept constructive criticism such as
>yours. If there is no criticism how will she even know.
We have long-winded, asinine writers to tell her don't we? And ofcourse idiots
to read posts by them?
Ketan
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
Thanks to one and all for responses. Criticism, particularly of the
*constructive* variety, is gladly taken and considered, and
compliments are of course welcome as well!
I guess I did not clarify one thing in my original post...while you
are of course welcome to post your comments directly to RMIM, I'd like
to request that you drop us a mail from our site itself with your
comments. We'll have a look at the site to make sure that the feedback
links are readily identifiable and accessible.
Thanks again,
Sanjeev and Armeen
Arun Sampath
"Sandy" <skhu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> I have been reading RMIM for almost a year and find that Ketan is one
> of the most idiotic around. His arguments are mostly pointless,
long-winded,
> gratuitous and yes - asinine. His recent post was one such, relatively
> minor, instance. And then there is Chetan whose only job seems to be
> scolding those who contribute a lot more to RMIM than he does and
> flaunting his scant knowledge of classical. How can people tolerate
> his arrogance and rude behaviour? If he is such a devotee of ITRANS,
> why doesn't he post any songs in ITRANS or correct other people's
> posts? All he does is lecture others.
You make some pretty strong statements about Ketan and Chetan both
long-timers of RMIM and both knowledgeable in their own right. I won't get
into a discussion about what you have said above except to say that I
disagree with most of it.
> Talking about arrogance, in one recent post, he was very critical of
> almost all the great male singers (Rafi, Talat, Mukesh, Manna). And
> I am being crucified for criticising Armeen!
IMO there needs to be a clear distinction between criticizing amateurs and
criticizing professionals. If you seek to criticize Armeen by comparing her
with Lata and Asha it is just not fair.
> This is interesting. You pick out the only part of my post that is
negative
> and expanded on it. Rest of all was in praise of the site and Sanjeev (for
> his singing) and Armeen (for web-designing). You have left out all of
that.
I was just talking about your criticism of Armeen's singing. Surely there
must have been something positive about her singing that you could have
mentioned.
> I agree with the above. The "hopeless" part was uncalled for. She can
> improve with time if she can accept constructive criticism such as
> yours. If there is no criticism how will she even know.
I agree. Often it is very difficult to offer *direct* constructive criticism
however well intentioned to people unless you know them very well. IMO
performers need to take all the *direct* praise that they get from people
with a pinch of salt. Nobody will come to you and say "hey you know what,
you went besur here". They will all say it was a great performance or
something to that effect. They want to come across as being "nice" and
politically correct. Never mind what they say in private. I have been guilty
of it myself several times until very recently when I tried to cut back on
it. But I still fall prey to it for a variety of reasons.
A few years ago, I remember when I was in a studio in Mumbai for a program,
I happened to see Dilip-Sen and went and shook hands with him. Not knowing
what to say, I just rattled off how I am a big fan of theirs and how they
have done a great job in "Yeh Dillagi" etc etc. After that I just couldn't
help feeling how the whole thing was such a big lie!
Then there was this program a few weeks ago where a singer (whom I am not
going to name here) from Calcutta and myself sang for a private audience. He
is supposed to be reputed as a stage show artiste and has been singing in
many shows both in India and US for many years now. He has sung with
artistes like Kavitha Krishnamurthy, Anuradha Paudwal, Kavitha Paudwal, Amit
Kumar etc. He is a KK clone. I was in awe of this guy until he started
singing. I was surprised to hear him being so besur in his singing. Except
for his voice which resembled KK, there was nothing worth writing home
about. But what stumped me was how everybody competed with one another to
congratulate him and sing paens about his singing.
Then there are some artistes who just can't take criticism, constructive or
otherwise. There is this one talented but arrogant singer who I am know who
I am sure will not take one word of criticism. In such cases, I find it
easier to just remain silent. In any case, its better than empty praises
which you don't mean anyway.
A
Ket...@att.net
>"Sandy" <skhu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> I have been reading RMIM for almost a year and find that Ketan is one
>> of the most idiotic around. His arguments are mostly pointless,
>long-winded,
>> gratuitous and yes - asinine. His recent post was one such, relatively
>> minor, instance. And then there is Chetan whose only job seems to be
>> scolding those who contribute a lot more to RMIM than he does and
>> flaunting his scant knowledge of classical. How can people tolerate
>> his arrogance and rude behaviour? If he is such a devotee of ITRANS,
>> why doesn't he post any songs in ITRANS or correct other people's
>> posts? All he does is lecture others.
>
>
>You make some pretty strong statements about Ketan and Chetan both
>long-timers of RMIM and both knowledgeable in their own right. I won't get
>into a discussion about what you have said above except to say that I
>disagree with most of it.
Thanks Arun. I hope you are not suggesting that just because I have been here
for 8 years, that I be spared any criticism? Not acceptable. I have no problems
with critics(even if they are self-appointed). Ashok picks on me quite often,
but that's because he thinks all RMIMers are in poverty when it comes to
intelligence, and you know how these World Bank types get stuck in their
poverty-alleviation programmes don't you? :)
What is amusing is that this person came out of the blue, decided to critic
Sanjeev/Armeen and then seems to have said "What the heck, while I am at it, let
me pick on a few more". He picked on me, without being provoked and out of
context, in a post meant for Sanjeev/Armeen, and now he is picking on Chetan,
again without being provoked and out of context, in a post meant for me. And he
calls my posts long-winded and pointless? Hah! And if he does have a problem
with rude people, there are many others on here who could fit the bill too. Why
pick only on Chetan?
I could say that his irritation is probably the result of something he ate, but
I think it is because of something he ate, that he now seems unable to pass
thru. It's either that or it's a case of his toilet being backed up from the
amount of crap he unloads. That must explain his verbal diarrhea on RMIM.
Ketan
Sandy
> "Sandy" <skhu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
>
> > I have been reading RMIM for almost a year and find that Ketan is one
> > of the most idiotic around. His arguments are mostly pointless,
> long-winded,
> > gratuitous and yes - asinine. His recent post was one such, relatively
> > minor, instance. And then there is Chetan whose only job seems to be
> > scolding those who contribute a lot more to RMIM than he does and
> > flaunting his scant knowledge of classical. How can people tolerate
> > his arrogance and rude behaviour? If he is such a devotee of ITRANS,
> > why doesn't he post any songs in ITRANS or correct other people's
> > posts? All he does is lecture others.
>
>
> You make some pretty strong statements about Ketan and Chetan both
> long-timers of RMIM and both knowledgeable in their own right. I won't get
> into a discussion about what you have said above except to say that I
> disagree with most of it.
I feel that being long-timers and knowledgeable should lead to a more
responsible behaviour, not less. Can you (or anybody else) tell me what it
is you disagree with in the above paragraph and I'll provide ample proof
for that particular. I feel that a lot of RMIMers are reluctant to
criticize old-timers and friends. And that only encourages the likes of
Ketan and Chetan.
>
>
> > Talking about arrogance, in one recent post, he was very critical of
> > almost all the great male singers (Rafi, Talat, Mukesh, Manna). And
> > I am being crucified for criticising Armeen!
>
>
> IMO there needs to be a clear distinction between criticizing amateurs and
> criticizing professionals. If you seek to criticize Armeen by comparing her
> with Lata and Asha it is just not fair.
I didn't. In fact some of those praising her were doing that.
>
>
> > This is interesting. You pick out the only part of my post that is
> negative
> > and expanded on it. Rest of all was in praise of the site and Sanjeev (for
> > his singing) and Armeen (for web-designing). You have left out all of
> that.
>
>
> I was just talking about your criticism of Armeen's singing. Surely there
> must have been something positive about her singing that you could have
> mentioned.
>
>
> > I agree with the above. The "hopeless" part was uncalled for. She can
> > improve with time if she can accept constructive criticism such as
> > yours. If there is no criticism how will she even know.
>
>
> I agree. Often it is very difficult to offer *direct* constructive criticism
> however well intentioned to people unless you know them very well. IMO
> performers need to take all the *direct* praise that they get from people
> with a pinch of salt. Nobody will come to you and say "hey you know what,
> you went besur here". They will all say it was a great performance or
> something to that effect. They want to come across as being "nice" and
> politically correct. Never mind what they say in private. I have been guilty
> of it myself several times until very recently when I tried to cut back on
> it. But I still fall prey to it for a variety of reasons.
I agree. Unlike what an RMIMer said a while back, I feel that Indians
tend to be very polite.
Sandeep