Songs and their Taals
Preeti Ranjan Panda
Hi RMIMers,
I plan to compile the results post for RJGK 57 later this week. If
you haven't sent in your entry yet, please send it right now! Here is
a list of songs in different taals I had compiled while short-listing
candidates for RJGK 57. I have listed songs in Roopak/Deepchandi taal,
Jhaptaal, Ektaal, and a few songs using a combination of multiple
taals. Obviously I had to omit Dadra and Keherwa because that would
lead to needless duplication of the entire ISB :-) (Coming to think of
it, "Taal" could be a useful additional field in the ISB entry of each
song.)
It has been a while since I started compiling this list. Please point
out any mistakes you notice. Some obvious songs are missing from the
list because they are featured in RJGK 57; I will post an updated list
later on including the quiz songs and any other additions/corrections
peepul suggest.
One vexing problem I have not resolved is the distinction between
Roopak and Deepchandi taals. Some of the songs do have the
accompanying percussion playing a 14-beat rhythmic cycle, but I think
that, in itself, is not sufficient justification to call the taal
Deepchandi. I would appreciate it if someone can sort out the Roopaks
from the Deepchandis in this list and explain the reasoning. What if
the percussion is not really playing the exact theka of the taal
(e.g., not tabla but some other drum is used)? How does the difference
between 3-2-2 and 3-4-3-4 structures manifest itself in the melodic
contour of a song?
ROOPAK
======
aaja ri aa nindiya tu aa
(Lata, Do Bigha Zameen, Salil)
aap ki nazron ne samjha
(Lata, Anpadh, Madan Mohan)
aap bhi baaten karen
(Lata, Dil ki Raahen, MM)
bhool jaa ae dil mohabbat ka zamaana
(Lata, Lekh, Sajjad)
mausam-e-bahaar aaye dil hai gulzaar
(Lata, Sargam, CR)
umangon ko sakhi pi ki nagariya
(Lata, Amar, Naushad)
saiyyan pyaara hai apna milan
(Lata)
ghar aaja ghir aaye badra saawariya
(Lata, Chhote Nawab, RDB)
aaj socha to aansoo bhar aaye
(Lata, Hanste Zakhm, MM)
pyaara pyaara ye sama
(Lata, Lal Qila, Roshan)
haaye re wo din kyon na aaye
(Lata, Anuradha, Ravi Shankar)
ae mere chaman main hoon wo kali
(Lata, Shart, Hemant)
sakhi kaise dharoon main dheer
(Lata, Sangeet Samrat Tansen, S. N. Tripathi)
dekha hai sapna koi
(Lata, Do Phool, Vasant Desai)
mere ae dil bata
(Lata, Jhanak Jhanak Payal Baje, Vasant Desai)
girija sang hai
(Lata+chorus, Suvarna Sundari, Adi Narayan Rao)
so ja nanhi ?
(Lata, Ek Hi Raasta, Hemant)
allah tero naam (Deepchandi)
(Lata, , Jaidev)
piya tose naina laage re (Deepchandi?)
(Lata, Guide, SDB)
tujhe kya sunaaun main dilruba
(Rafi, Ustaadon ke Ustaad, MM)
zindagi bhar gham judaai ka
(Rafi, , Hansraj Behl)
apni to har aah ek toofaan hai
(Rafi, Kala Bazaar, SDB)
ae saba kehna mere dildaar ko
(Rafi, Kabuliwallah, Salil)
meri duniya lut rahi thi aur main khaamosh tha
(Rafi, CID, OPN)
apni aazaadi ko ham hargiz mita sakte nahin
(Rafi, Leader, Naushad)
zara sun haseena o naazneen
(Rafi, Kaun Apna Kaun Paraya, Ravi)
raat bhar ka hai mehmaan andhera ?
(Rafi, Sone ki Chidiya, OPN)
tumhi se hui hai shuru
(Rafi, Mera Dost, L-P)
kal chaman tha aaj wo sehra hua
(Rafi, Khandan, Ravi)
do ghadi baitho tumhaara roop aankhon mein basaalun
(Rafi, Non-filmi?)
kehdo koi na kare yahaan pyaar (Deepchandi?)
(Rafi, Goonj Uthi Shehnai, Vasant Desai)
dil lagaakar ham ye samjhe
(Asha, , CR)
shama par jal kar bhi parwaana fana hota nahin
(Asha, Meenar, C. Ramchandra)
dil se main, mujhse dil takra gaya
(Asha, Bus Conductor, Bipin-Babul)
janam liyo lalna
(Asha, Godaan, Ravi Shankar)
ham hain nashe mein
(Asha, Sehra, Ramlal)
dhalti jaaye jundariya hamaari
(Asha, Nau do guarah, SDB)
piya ko milan kaise hoye re (Deepchandi?)
(Asha, Andolan, Jaidev)
geet kitne ga chuki hoon
(Asha, Non-filmi)
kabhi shaakh-o-sabz-o-barg par
(Asha, Non-filmi, Jaidev)
hairaton ke silsile soz-e-nahaan par aa gaya
(Asha, Non-filmi, Ghulam Ali)
main teri nazar ka suroor hoon
(Talat, Jahan Ara, Madan Mohan)
bahaaron ki duniya pukaare tu aaja
(Talat, Laila Majnu, Ghulam Mohd.)
so ja tu mere raajdulaare soja
(Talat, Jawab, Nashad)
zindagi kis mod par laayi mujhe
(Talat, Diwali ki Raat, Snehal Bhatkar)
kahaan hai kahaan mere jeevan sahaare
(Talat, Sangdil, Sajjad)
yaad jab aaye teri
(Talat, Mohar, Madan Mohan)
mujhe tumse kuchh bhi na chaahiye
(Mukesh, Kanhaiya, S-J)
tum jahaan ho wahaan kya ye mausam nahin
(Mukesh, Road to Sikkim, Vijay Singhji)
wahi udi udi ghataaen hain, ek tum nahin ho to kuchh nahin
(Mukesh, Mera ghar mere bachche, Sardar Malik)
sun chaand meri ye daastaan, main kahoon tujhe ya ki na kahoon
(Mukesh, Naag Jyoti, Sardar Malik)
ud ja bhanwar maaya kamal ka
(Manna Dey, Rani Roopmati, S.N.Tripathi)
nafrat ki ek hi thokar ne
(Manna Dey, Reshma aur Shera, Jaidev)
aaj apne mehnaton ka
(Pankaj Malik, Doctor, Pankaj Malik)
tere mandir ka hoon deepak
(Pankaj Malik, Non-filmi)
bezubaan sapnon ko ham ne
(C.H.Atma - Non filmi)
jo kisike pyaar ke den the
(C.H.Atma - Non filmi)
gham diye mustakil
(Saigal, Shahjahan, Naushad)
mere aansuon pe naa muskuraa, kayi khwaab the jo machal gaye
(Mubarak Begum, More Man Mitwa, Dattaram)
desh ki pur kaif
(Roshan Ara Begum, Jugnu, Firoze Nizami)
kho gaya jaane kahaan ?
(Hemant, Mohar, Madan Mohan)
piya haaji ali
(A. R. Rahman?, Fiza, A. R. Rahman)
e ri main to prem deewaani
(Vani Jairam, Meera, Ravi Shankar)
teri shehnai bole
(Rafi+Lata, Goonj Uthi Shehnai, Vasant Desai)
aji rooth kar ab kahaan jaaiyega
(Rafi+Lata, Arzoo, S-J)
magar haseena ae bekhabar
(?)
phir tumhaari yaad aayi ae sanam
(Rafi+Manna+Sadat Khan, Rustam Sohrab, Sajjad)
ulajh gaye do naina
(Hemant+Lata, Ek Saal, Ravi)
hariyala banna aaya re
(Asha+Jagjit Kaur, Razia Sultan, Khayyam)
chanda se pyaare
(Lata+Manna, Suvarna Sundari, Adi Narayan Rao)
Jas Parmar suggested the following additions to me. I haven't heard
any of these songs:
kisi raah mein kisi mod par
(Lata+Mukesh, Mere humsafar?)
kabhi ae haqeeqat-e-muntazar
(Lata, Dulhan ek raat ki)
chal diye de ke gham
(Lata, Son of india)
JHAPTAAL
========
aansoo bhari hai
(Mukesh, Parvarish, Dattaram)
tumhe zindagi ke ujjale mubaarak
(Mukesh, Poornima, K-A)
dil dhoondhta hai sahaare sahaare
(Mukesh, Kala Admi, Dattaram)
na jaane kahaan kho gaya wo zamaana
(Mukesh, Begana, Sapan-Jagmohan)
tere pyaar ko is tarah se bhulaana
(Mukesh, Maine Jeena Seekh Liya, Roshan)
jawaani ye bharpoor dilkash adaayen
(Mukesh, Pehli Nazar, Anil Biswas)
bahaaron se kehdo mere ghar na aao
(Mukesh, Non-filmi)
baraabar se bach kar guzar jaane waale
(Mukesh, Non-filmi)
pyaara hamara munna nainon ka taara
(Lata, Sansar, E. S. Sastry/M. D. Parthasarathi/B. S. Kalla)
chali aaj gori piya ki nagariya
(Lata, Godaan, Ravi Shankar)
ye raaten ye mausam ye hansna hansaana
(Pankaj Malik)
mujhe dekh hasrat ki tasveer hoon main
(Talat, Baaz, OPN)
tere dar pe aaya hoon fariyaad leke
(Talat, Chor Bazar, Sardar Malik)
mujhe pyaar mein tum ilzaam na dete
(Rafi, Phir wohi dil laya hoon, OPN)
zameen bhi wohi hai, wohi aasmaan, magar ab wo dilli ki galiyaan kahaan
(Rafi, Chandni Chowk, Roshan)
chali re chali re main to des paraaye
(Asha, Saranga, Sardar Malik)
tumhaare hain tum se dua maangte hain
(Asha+Chorus?, Boot Polish, S-J)
savere ka sooraj tumhare liye hai
(Kishore, Ek baar muskura do, OPN)
sharaabi sharaabi ye saawan ka mausam
(Suman, Noorjahan, Roshan)
raag bhairav pratham shant
(Manna+chorus, Sangeet Samrat Tansen, S. N. Tripathi)
maasoom chehra ye qaatil adaayen
(Rafi+Lata, Dil tera deewaana, Shankar-Jaikishen)
EKTAAL
======
jaa main to se naahi boloon
(Lata, Sautela Bhai, Anil Biswas)
pavan deewaani na maane
(Lata, Dr. Vidya, SDB)
ek ritu aaye, ek ritu jaaye
(Lata, Sau Saal Baad, L-P)
manamohana bade jhoothe
(,Seema, S-J)
ketaki gulaab juhi champak ban phoole
(Bhimsen Joshi+Manna Dey, Basant Bahar, S-J)
barase ghan saari rain
(?, Tarang, Vanraj Bhatia)
tum tanana
(?, Kinara, RDB)
DADRA+KEHERWA
=============
deke mujhe wo dard-e-jigar bhool gaye kya bhool gaye
(Noor Jahan)
umangein dil ki machli, muskuraayi zindagi apni
(Noor Jahan)
des chhudaaye bhes chhudaaye
(Kishore, Chacha Zindabad, Madan Mohan)
hey maine qasam li
(Kishore, Tere Mere Sapne, SDB)
more atariya pe kaaga bole, mora jiya dole
(Meena Kapoor)
do dilon ko ye duniya
(Manju/RABegum?, Chand, H-B)
teri nazar mein main rahoon
(Surendra+?)
zara tham jaa tu
(Geeta, Jogan, B.C.Rani)
jin aankhon ki need haraam hui
(Shamshad, Jogan, B. C. Rani)
jaane kaisa jaadu kiya re
(?)
[There must be many more popular ones in this category. I haven't
seriously kept track.]
ROOPAK+KEHERWA
==============
qurbani qurbani qurbani
(?, Qurbani, K-A)
ROOPAK+?
========
laagi nahin chhoote
(Dilip Kumar+Lata, Musafir, Salil)
JHAPTAAL+KEHERWA
================
ek kali aur do patiyan
(Chorus, Raahi, Anil Biswas)
JHAPTAAL+?
==========
koi mere maathe ki bindiya sajaale to
(Lata, Palkon ki Chhaon mein, L-P)
Feel free to suggest any additions and corrections.
Regards,
Preeti Ranjan
---------------------------------------
Mukesh's voice is better than it sounds
---------------------------------------
NanisProctologst
This chick preeti is doing RJGK57 about Taals.Man you got a golden chance to
tell us all about the taals that VD infected Dholakia played on you .
(dhan..dhanan..dhan..dhanan) I got this new proctoscope Nani. Want to try it?
It opens wider and goes in deeper. Ari ..your proctologist
Kishore Kumar
- Ye deewane ki zid hai, apne deewane ki khatir aa (Rafi, Laila Majnu,
MM) (a beauty in Yaman-Kalyan)
- Tere mere milan ki ye raina (Kishore - Lata, Abhiman, SDB)
- Teri bindiya re (Rafi - Lata, Abhiman, SDB)
- Tum juda ho kar hamein, kuch aur pyaare ho gaye (Talat, MM)
- Mera raaja beta bujhe, ek paheli (Lata, Anurag, SDB)
- Hui shaam unka khayal aa gaya (Rafi, Mere Hamdam Mere Dost, LP)
- Prem Pujari title song sung by SDB
Also most of the Ghulam Ali's ghazal 'Chupke chupke raat din' would seem to
be in a 7-beat frame, barring the first line of Sthayi.
By the way, the Meera song by Vani Jayaram looks to be a 6-beater one. The
score by Ravi Shanker was something of a non-starter so I haven't heard the
songs often. But I am fairly sure this Todi-based song is not in Roopak.
Thanks,
Kishore
naniwadekar
Preeti Ranjan Panda <pa...@synopsys.com> wrote in message
news:3A8872D4...@synopsys.com...
>
> ROOPAK
> bhool jaa ae dil mohabbat ka zamaana
> (Lata, Lekh, Sajjad)
mahobat kaa fasaanaa (not zamaana). Film - Khel, not Lekh.
>
> umangon ko sakhi pi ki nagariya
> (Lata, Amar, Naushad)
>
There is no way I will classify this under roopak. This is surely
deep-chandi.
By AMAR's time, Lata's solos for Naushad had become much of a muchness.
But this folksy chorus ( alongwith Udan Khatola chorus songs ) is nice and
relaxed.
Superb work by Naushad Mian. The 8th maatra(s) is distinctly different from
1st in this song.
I wonder why you call it roopak. As sam and khaali coincide on first maatra
in roopak,
I look for a 'fading' sam. The sams in this song are prominent and
assertive.
One heady song which uses deepchandi is 'aaj koi pyar se, dil ki baate keh
gaya' (Asha - Saawan Ki Ghata - OP ).
On Kumar Gandharva's 'Geet Varsha' 2-cassette set, 14 beat theka is referred
to as SATWA.
I guess the pronunciation is saatawaa or saat-wa, signifying saat (7) maatra
structure. This taal-name was new for me. But it is virtually deep-chandi.
My hunch is that there must be many, many songs in
roopak-deepchandi-satwa. I wonder why you call it a rare taal.
As for a song using 2 or more taals, Pradeep Lad had mentioned that
Hridaynath's marathi song (sawar re, unch unch jhoola) uses three taals. I
don't remember which sister sang this song. Another Hridaynath song in
Marathi which uses three taals is Asha's solo : chaandane shimpit jaashi.
This song uses roopak, keharwa and teentaal.
- nani
Preeti Ranjan Panda
> > umangon ko sakhi pi ki nagariya (Lata, Amar, Naushad)
> There is no way I will classify this under roopak. This is surely
> this song. I wonder why you call it roopak. As sam and khaali
> coincide on first maatra in roopak, I look for a 'fading' sam. The
> sams in this song are prominent and assertive.
By "fading sam", I assume you are referring to the tabla bol - the
"light" sound (of ti/tin). The problem with relying on the tabla to
infer taal is that you are left clueless if the percussion leaves the
text book, which happens very often in film songs (e.g., "haan
deewaana hoon main"). I think the melodic structure - the way the
notes are grouped together - is a stronger indicator of taal.
That said, I suspect you are right about "umangon ko sakhi" being more
deepchandi than roopak. The 8th maatra is indeed very different from
the 1st. But is that sufficient indication for deepchandi taal? In the
list of roopak songs I posted, there are a LOT of songs set to this
14-beat structure with the first half consisting of "heavy" beats
(dha/dhin) and the second half "light" (ta/tin). (Note that this is
not really textbook deepchandi, which is defined: "Dha Dhin - Dha Dha
Dhin - Ta Tin - Dha Dha Dhin -"; beats 11,12,13 are "heavy", not
"light"). Examples of such songs used in the quiz itself are:
saba se ye kehdo
aaj madhuvaataas dole
hiya jarat rahat din rain
ae dil-e-nadaan
and many more:
gham diye mustakil
kehdo koi na kare yahaan pyaar
bhool ja ae dil mohabbat ka fasana
...
Are they all deepchandi? If I turned off the percussion, could you
still differentiate between the two taals? Gut feeling tells me this
should be possible if the taals are distinct, i.e., taal is defined
not just by the tabla bols, but by the melodic phrasing pattern.
I don't mean to challenge your assertions. I am merely trying to
understand.
> My hunch is that there must be many, many songs in
> roopak-deepchandi-satwa. I wonder why you call it a rare taal.
"rare" only with respect to dadra/keherwa in HFM.
naniwadekar
> naniwadekar wrote:
> > > umangon ko sakhi pi ki nagariya (Lata, Amar, Naushad)
> > There is no way I will classify this under roopak. This is surely
> > deep-chandi...The 8th maatra(s) is distinctly different from 1st in
> > this song. I wonder why you call it roopak. As sam and khaali
> > coincide on first maatra in roopak, I look for a 'fading' sam. The
> > sams in this song are prominent and assertive.
>
> By "fading sam", I assume you are referring to the tabla bol - the
> "light" sound (of ti/tin).
>
'sam', as in a 'sung' sam or swar-sam, takes into account the fact that it
lands
on a 'fading' or 'muffled' or 'light' tabla-bol-sam. Even if the percussion
is
turned off, the roopak-sam sounds different. However, at times, some
bandishes using other taals also use a 'fading' swar-sam. I have heard
Arati Ankalikar's Bageshri vilambit (kaun gat bhayee) in both roopak and
teentaal. Even when she sings it in teental, she comes on sam in exactly the
same manner as when she sings it in roopak. However, a muffled swar-sam
for other (non-roopak) taals is an exception to the rule. As for roopak,
I can't recall hearing a prominent / heavy swar-sam in a roopak song /
bandish.
> The problem with relying on the tabla to
> infer taal is that you are left clueless if the percussion leaves the
> text book, which happens very often in film songs (e.g., "haan
> deewaana hoon main"). I think the melodic structure - the way the
> notes are grouped together - is a stronger indicator of taal.
>
Good point. But taal does take into consideration the melodic structure.
I will be left clueless if percussion is turned off. But someone with a
better
feel or intuition can make out the ideal taal from the melodic structure.
Hridaynath has said that when he bases his songs on paarampaarik bandishes,
he changes the melodic structure to fit it into dadra or keherwa.
> That said, I suspect you are right about "umangon ko sakhi" being more
> deepchandi than roopak. The 8th maatra is indeed very different from
> the 1st. But is that sufficient indication for deepchandi taal? In the
> list of roopak songs I posted, there are a LOT of songs set to this
> 14-beat structure with the first half consisting of "heavy" beats
> (dha/dhin) and the second half "light" (ta/tin). (Note that this is
> not really textbook deepchandi, which is defined: "Dha Dhin - Dha Dha
> Dhin - Ta Tin - Dha Dha Dhin -"; beats 11,12,13 are "heavy", not
> "light"). Examples of such songs used in the quiz itself are:
>
That the 8th maatra is different from the 1st is sufficient indication that
it is not roopak. It is a sufficient indication that it is a 14-beat cycle,
and
not a 7-beat cycle. If it is not deepchandi, what is it ? If there are
enough
songs which use 14-beat theka which is not textbook deepchandi, then
that theka will have to be accepted as a form of deepchandi or a new name
will have to be found for it. The name 'satwa' might have been conjured up
just for this reason. I don't think that name has caught on.
This raises another question. There are many thekas for dadra and keherwa.
Some of them have separate name for them (example - bhajani). But all the
rest are clubbed under dadra or keherwa. I don't know whether various thekas
of dadra use the same tabla-bols with different weights or whether they use
different tabla-bols altogether than the textbook dadra. If any RMIMer has
any idea
about this, his input will be very helpful indeed. Let me cross-post this to
RMIC.
We may hear valuable input from RMICers who don't frequent RMIM.
In your introduction to this RJGK, you had written that you wanted to talk
about dadra as a 3-beat cycle, rather than 6-beat cycle. Once such a preface
is offered, I have no problems with that.
In the same spirit, it is okay (IMO) if you widen the scope of 7-beat cycle
to include both
roopak and deepchandi. When we talk about Roopak Vs Deepchandi, then
'umangon ko sakhi' is not roopak. Indeed it is not roopak at all. The
inclusion in this quiz of songs with 14-beat structure must be seen in the
spirit that it can be sub-divided into two parts of 7 beats each. The
description : 'songs in roopak and jhaptaal' for this RJGK is little bit of
a misnomer as songs with 14-beat structure have also been featured in it.
But it is a minor point.
> saba se ye kehdo
> aaj madhuvaataas dole
> hiya jarat rahat din rain
> ae dil-e-nadaan
> and many more:
> gham diye mustakil
> kehdo koi na kare yahaan pyaar
> bhool ja ae dil mohabbat ka fasana
> ...
>
> Are they all deepchandi? If I turned off the percussion, could you
> still differentiate between the two taals? Gut feeling tells me this
> should be possible if the taals are distinct, i.e., taal is defined
> not just by the tabla bols, but by the melodic phrasing pattern.
>
If you turned off the percussion when I am hearing the song for the
first time, *I* will probably get confused. But someone with a better
grounding
than me won't. If I hear 'aaj madhuvaataas' or 'umangon ko' or 'bhool jaa
ai dil' or
'gham diye mustakil' 5-10 times and internalise it properly, AND THEN I
play
it in my mind's ear, I can make out that it is a 14-beat structure, not
roopak.
I call this structure deepchandi, but I accept it may not always be textbook
deepchandi.
As you have pointed out, deepchandi's maatraas # 1,4,11
(and 12-13) are all heavy. But maatra # 8 is light. In case of the 7-beat
segments
of 'dheere dheere dhal re chanda', they are neither in roopak, nor in
deepchandi.
tabla-bols at maatra # 1, 4,6 are heavy. tabla-bols at maatra # 8,11,13 are
light.
Heavy tabla-bol on maatra # 1 rules out roopak. And I choose to call it
deepchandi despite light bols on #11 and 13. (As an aside, I *almost* can
play the entire song in my mind's ear in roopak, including its keherwa
sections.)
I am sure roopak will not go well with 'umangon ko sakhi' or other
deepchandi
songs, except one case. That exception is 'dheere dheere'. I suspect
'pure' roopak can be used for 'dheere dheere'. If percussion is turned off
for 'dheere dheere', I won't be able to make out from the melodic structure
that it is not roopak. But, and for the n-th time, *I* cannot make out
from the melody of 'dheer dheere' whether it should use a 7-beat or a
14-beat
structure. A more knowledgable fellow might insist that 7-beat structure is
not
suitable for it. If Anil Biswas chose different emphases on maatraas 1 and
8,
he must have done so for a good reason.
- dhananjay naniwadekar
Surinder P. Singh
naniwadekar wrote in message <97cdrb$o0s45$1...@ID-75735.news.dfncis.de>...
>I was referring to 'fading sam' as in tabla bol, indeed. But a roopak
>'sam', as in a 'sung' sam or swar-sam, takes into account the fact that it
>lands
>on a 'fading' or 'muffled' or 'light' tabla-bol-sam. Even if the percussion
>is
>turned off, the roopak-sam sounds different. However, at times, some
>bandishes using other taals also use a 'fading' swar-sam. I have heard
>Arati Ankalikar's Bageshri vilambit (kaun gat bhayee) in both roopak and
>teentaal. Even when she sings it in teental, she comes on sam in exactly
the
>same manner as when she sings it in roopak. However, a muffled swar-sam
>for other (non-roopak) taals is an exception to the rule. As for roopak,
>I can't recall hearing a prominent / heavy swar-sam in a roopak song /
>bandish.
Nani,
in the light of this thread, is "O Basanti Pawan Paagal..." (from Jis Desh
mein Ganges Bahti Hai) roopak or deepchandi?
Thanks.
-S
naniwadekar
Surinder P. Singh <suri...@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:97f2sc$8...@news.or.intel.com...
>
> naniwadekar wrote in message <97cdrb$o0s45$1...@ID-75735.news.dfncis.de>...
> >I was referring to 'fading sam' as in tabla bol, indeed. But a roopak
> >'sam', as in a 'sung' sam or swar-sam, takes into account the fact that
it
> >lands on a 'fading' or 'muffled' or 'light' tabla-bol-sam.
> >
>
> in the light of this thread, is "O Basanti Pawan Paagal..." (from Jis Desh
> mein Ganges Bahti Hai) roopak or deepchandi?
> Thanks.
> -S
>
I am pretty sure the song 'O Basanti' is in roopak. Why the doubt ?
I have not heard it for ages. But it is invariably included among the
examples
offered for roopak songs.
After I read your post, I played it in my mind's ear. The maatraas # 1, 8,
15 and
so on are all muffled. So is the swar-sam. The melodic structure is also
that
of a roopak song. Just give it one listen and I am sure you will be able
to confirm it for yourself that it uses roopak, not deepchandi.
- nani
Preeti Ranjan Panda
[...]
> That the 8th maatra is different from the 1st is sufficient indication that
> it is not roopak. It is a sufficient indication that it is a 14-beat cycle,
> and not a 7-beat cycle.
I don't think so. It could also be roopak with a simple ornamentation:
alternate cycles are played differently. Film composers can certainly
take that liberty, which is why I think it is important to understand
why the tabla is playing the way it is.
E.g., listen to "mera jeevan kora kaaghaz". It has the typical 14-beat
structure we talked about, yet, in one interlude, the tabla clearly
switches to the Roopak theka. Does this mean the taal of the song
changed? No. The 14 beat play seems merely a decoration; this is a
roopak song.
I won't argue with you on "umangon ko sakhi" because, as I said,
I agree with you. But about some others, such as "aaj madhuvaataas
dole", I'm not convinced; Roopak seems to fit perfectly.
Also, I am intrigued by your assertion that the Roopak sam is treated
differently in a tune (because it coincides with khaali). Although
that was my initial impression too, from what little RMIC discussions
I have read on this topic, I gather that the taali/khaali scheme is
merely a pointer helping the performer locate his position in the
cycle, nothing more. Specifically, khaali does not mean "unstressed
beat" or some such thing, otherwise one would have a nightmare
explaining why many drut ektaal bandishes are structured 3-3-3-3.
naniwadekar
> naniwadekar wrote:
> [...]
> > That the 8th maatra is different from the 1st is sufficient indication
that
> > it is not roopak. It is a sufficient indication that it is a 14-beat
cycle,
> > and not a 7-beat cycle.
>
> I don't think so. It could also be roopak with a simple ornamentation:
> alternate cycles are played differently. Film composers can certainly
> take that liberty, which is why I think it is important to understand
> why the tabla is playing the way it is.
>
That the 8th maatra is different from the 1st is STRONG (as opposed
to sufficient) indication that
it is not roopak. I had myself alluded to the possibility that though
'dhiire dhiire dhal re chanda' uses 1st and 8th tabla-bol differently,
roopak fits it properly. As you say, alternate cycles may have been
played differently for ornamentation. The first two 7-beat cycles after
the taal-switch in this song are clearly roopak. Then the ornamentation
is started and maintained.
> But about some others, such as "aaj madhuvaataas
> dole", I'm not convinced; Roopak seems to fit perfectly.
You are right. And more. Roopak also fits 'aaj madhuvaataas'. In fact only
roopak fits that song. Deepchandi doesn't.
I don't know why I could not see the point in the first go. Both 'aa' in
aaj and later 'taa' are beautifully floated (muffled / faded).
>
> Also, I am intrigued by your assertion that the Roopak sam is treated
> differently in a tune (because it coincides with khaali). Although
> that was my initial impression too, from what little RMIC discussions
> I have read on this topic, I gather that the taali/khaali scheme is
> merely a pointer helping the performer locate his position in the
> cycle, nothing more.
>
Can you come up with some examples of pronounced roopak-sams ?
The sams in the alternate 'strong' cycles of 'dhiire dhiire' ARE slightly
strong. But only slightly. Generally speaking, roopak sam is treated
differently. Whereas 'taali / khaali' scheme is often not used as a pointer
and is plain disregarded, sam is mostly treated far more seriously.
(It takes Ali Akbar on his bad days to disregard all dictates. I have even
heard him start playing very whimsically in the middle of a sublime
performance. Introduction of tabla can act as a spur for the Emperor
to do as he wants.)
> Specifically, khaali does not mean "unstressed
> beat" or some such thing, otherwise one would have a nightmare
> explaining why many drut ektaal bandishes are structured 3-3-3-3.
>
In roopak and jhaptal, khaali does mean ACTIVELY-unstressed beat.
In teental, the two succeeding beats give it its 'khaali' character.
Vasantrao
Acharekar also plays the ninth beat in a special muffled way. (I never got a
chance to hear the great man live. He used to be assistant and tabla player
for Vasant Desai before he dedicated himself almost exclusively to ICM,
and especially Kumar Gandharva.)
I have no idea what role khaali plays in ektaal. When khaali does mean
anything at all, it means muffled beat (or thereabouts - in teental).
I have discussed many aspects of taal with a few tabla players in view
of this thread. The input I have received would make for a longish post.
Some other day. (In fact, some other month.)
For now, just this. You had asked : If a deepchandi-ish theka is not
textbook deepchandi, can it be called deepchandi ? Yes, it can and it is.
Different thekas of keherwa are played with different bols. They still
fall under keherwa banner. (A prominent theka like bhajani does have a
separate name for itself.) Dadra also uses many thekas which do not
use textbook tabla-bols.
- dhananjay naniwadekar
jawaha...@gmail.com
g.jex...@gmail.com
Please guide me tall of this song
Chal akela chal akela chal akela
Tera mela phiche chota rahi chal akela
With regards
Vishal
Devesh
> Hello,
> Please guide me taal of this song
> Chal akela chal akela chal akela
> Tera mela phiche chota rahi chal akela
>
> With regards
>
> Vishal
1Chal ake4la 5chal akela 1chal akela 5~ 6~ 7~
8Tera 1mela phiche 5chuta ra8hi 1chal akela
Devesh
aryanar...@gmail.com
Can you please write about Aaj socha Anso bahar Aye
Is it Roopak or Deepchandi?
Thanks
dn.u...@gmail.com
of the variants of Deepchandi in which, to the best of my knowledge,
the first 7 beats are repeated once more to complete the 14 beat
cycle. Kumar Gandharva has used Satwa (saat-waa) a lot for his bhajans.
Jay Farrukhabadi
Pls visit my blog to see and listen to latest and popular songs on roopak and deepchandi
https://bairagiruh.blogspot.com/2021/05/list-of-songs-in-rupak-taal-and.html