Tandem songs - An observation and an explanation
rebala gopinath
Hi,
Wanted to post after the RJGK on tandem songs but couldn't do it earlier.
To begin with here's part of the list of tandem songs I had collected
hoping to reverse-engineer the clues (with not much success however :-(
for RJGK 30.
Ye raat ye chandnin - Lata, Hemant
Na yeh chand chand hoga - Geeta, Hemant
Kaise koi jiye - Geeta, Hemant
Ansoo samajh ke kyon - Lata, Talat
Jayen to jayen kahan - Lata, Talat
Aye mere dil kahin - Lata, Talat
Tum to dil ka taar - Lata, Talat
Bedardi balma - Lata, Rafi
Mere mehboob tujhe - Lata, Rafi
O mere shahe khuban - Lata, Rafi
Rimjhim gire sawan - Lata, KK
Teri aankhon ke siva - Lata, Rafi
Mera qaraar leja - Lata, Talat
Jeevan ke safar main raahi - Lata, KK
Pardesiyon se na - Lata, Rafi
Khilte hai gul yahan - Lata, KK
Ye mard bade - Lata, Rafi
Laut ke aaja mere meet - Lata, Mukesh
Ae gham-e-dil kya karoon - Asha, Talat
Marna teri gali main - Lata, Rafi
Jab jaag uthe armaan - Geeta, Hemant
Raat aur din - Lata, Mukesh
Mujhko is raat ki tanhai - Lata, Mukesh
and so on ....
It can be seen in the above list (or any other) that in most cases
the male version of the tandem song is more popular than the female
version.
I was wondering why that's the case. Given that female singers have
pretty much dominated Hindi music throughout, not many would conclude
that male singers were better.
Let's look for a more reasonable explanation. We notice in most of
the tandem songs that the male version is the main version and the
female version is generally the sad version or the secondary version.
It's as if the female singer is singing the male singer's song. This
can best be seen by looking at Lata-Talat tandems. In all their tandems,
I know of, Talat versions are more popular (and generally better). But
then they are all made-for-Talat songs. It's as if Lata is dubbing for
Talat. And nobody can beat Talat in his forte. Why is the male version
of the tandem generally the important one and hence more popular.
Here's one explanation. Most MD's (specially in 40's, 50's and early
60's) were partial to the female singers. This can be seen from the
large proportions of songs by female singers in films in general and
that era in particular. So an MD is more likely to add a female version
of a song that is basically with a male singer.
Would appreciate comments on the observation (is it so?) and the
explanation (if so, why so?).
Regards,
Kalyan
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Harish Suvarna
gre...@umbc.edu (rebala gopinath) wrote:
>
>I was wondering why that's the case. Given that female singers have
>pretty much dominated Hindi music throughout, not many would conclude
>that male singers were better.
>
>Let's look for a more reasonable explanation. We notice in most of
>the tandem songs that the male version is the main version and the
>female version is generally the sad version or the secondary version.
>It's as if the female singer is singing the male singer's song. This
>can best be seen by looking at Lata-Talat tandems. In all their tandems,
>I know of, Talat versions are more popular (and generally better). But
>then they are all made-for-Talat songs. It's as if Lata is dubbing for
>Talat. And nobody can beat Talat in his forte. Why is the male version
>of the tandem generally the important one and hence more popular.
>
>Here's one explanation. Most MD's (specially in 40's, 50's and early
>60's) were partial to the female singers. This can be seen from the
>large proportions of songs by female singers in films in general and
>that era in particular. So an MD is more likely to add a female version
>of a song that is basically with a male singer.
>
>Would appreciate comments on the observation (is it so?) and the
>explanation (if so, why so?).
>
>Regards,
>
This thread started by Kalyaan will be very interesting. The Observation
of Kalyaan is true. Always the male versions are popular than female versions.
I will add the following to the above list.
Ehsaan Tera hoga mujh par
Hum ne tujhko pyaar kiyaa hai itna, koun karegaa itna
Yaadonki baarat Nikli gayaa... (Mother, sons version. Unlike the rest)
Sanam teri Kasam
Ae mere dil kahin aur chal
However In my opinion, the sad song is always popular than the happy song.
In sad songs the 'bass' plays an important role and conveys the sadness very well.
The Lady singers lack that when compared to Male singers.
And going one level down, why sad songs are popular than happy versions?: I think
to sing a happy song the singer need not put in any extra effort. I think I will use
'non_sad' song rather than 'happy' song. So the non-sad song does not need any emotion
in that. But for sad song, the singer has to pour that emotion to the needed extent.
Kyaa hota hai ki sad song me Gaayak(i) ko thoda 'vazan/dum/dil' dalnaa padta hi. That
'vazan/dil/dum' is likened by people.
Kalyaan, When you have time, Can you also give info on happy/sad info of the above.
I heard only a few of the above by both.
-Harish
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Ikram Ahmed Khan
rebala gopinath (gre...@umbc.edu) wrote:
: Hi,
: It can be seen in the above list (or any other) that in most cases
: the male version of the tandem song is more popular than the female
: version.
: I was wondering why that's the case. Given that female singers have
: pretty much dominated Hindi music throughout, not many would conclude
: that male singers were better.
: Let's look for a more reasonable explanation. We notice in most of
: the tandem songs that the male version is the main version and the
: female version is generally the sad version or the secondary version.
: It's as if the female singer is singing the male singer's song. This
: can best be seen by looking at Lata-Talat tandems. In all their tandems,
: I know of, Talat versions are more popular (and generally better). But
: then they are all made-for-Talat songs. It's as if Lata is dubbing for
: Talat. And nobody can beat Talat in his forte. Why is the male version
: of the tandem generally the important one and hence more popular.
: Here's one explanation. Most MD's (specially in 40's, 50's and early
: 60's) were partial to the female singers. This can be seen from the
: large proportions of songs by female singers in films in general and
: that era in particular. So an MD is more likely to add a female version
: of a song that is basically with a male singer.
: Would appreciate comments on the observation (is it so?) and the
: explanation (if so, why so?).
Hmmm, let's try to mix a theory about nuclear forces and magnetic forces and
try and see whether we get the Unified Force theory, shall we?
Generally male songs are more popular.
{The rmim-gurus who walk, eat, drink and live Lata shall be viewed as
exceptions which only contribute to proving this rule, ok? :) }.
Reason is simple. Consider what is the topic of songs.... Well, in short, we
can generalise that most songs deal with romance in some way {Noted
exceptions: Patriotic and Mamta (as in the feeling not the actress) songs).
And bringing Darwin's theory into play {Today is our day of mixing as many
theories as we possibly can. :) }, looking towards the animals from which we
are theorised to have been evolved, we see the male bending backwards,
forwards, dancing and generally doing everything possible to win the
lady. That, seems to be his sole aim in life. Man is naturally influenced
by this.{Thanks again directed towards Darwin. }. So he goes about making it
his life's aim to win over the heroines. Where, oh where, shall he find
inspiration? Ah, here our escapist commercial film-makers come into the
picture. Shrewdly noticing the market for such things, they make entire
films revolving around this central theme. And to facilitate the hero
winning over all odds, they came up with having him sing in the voice of
Rafi or KK{ Exceptions: Others ;) }, with music composed by composers like
Naushad, SJ, etc, choreographed by PL Raj { I would hate to have seen
Pradeep Kumar choreographed by Prabhu Deva :) } and try and accomplish this
task which easily beats the 12 Herculean tasks {Never mind, the number of
episodes of Kevin Sorbo that we still have to sit through :) }. So, we start
of teasing, then romancing the female. Since a significant number of the
male population are not very successful in winning over the females {Critics
cite this as a major flaw in Darwin's theory; this inability to explain how
a seemingly failing people are still thriving :) . How can the grossly unfit
survive? Answers phir kisi din..... :) }, we have the heros of our films
also sing the appropriate sad songs. Since most of the male population
doesn't realise, that it is they themselves who are unfit, they always come
up with excuses of all kinds for their not able to win the most desirable
female {Example: WalimiyaaN Sheikh-peer, the great Sufi bard. He made an art
form of making excuses. :) }. So, our heros, which have been created as
examples of the supremely successful males, are also shown to come up
against circumstances which will make 'em think that they are not gonna win
their heroines. Hence the sad songs. The females protested that they are
being dealt a raw hand. After all, *they* are the prize which everybody is
worth running after. So, doing the politically correct thing, our
film-makers give a few songs to females. And since males view the females as
the ultimate thing in the Universe, some of them worked further on the
ultimate hypothesis and came up with the realization that they indeed are
the better singers too { How they came to become the rmim-gurus mentioned
above can be explored in another thread}. A significant number of the male
population who found that they were generally unsuccessful in coming up with
original ideas to win over the desired female decided to copy these heros
who seemed to always get the girl that mattered to them. So, besides
dressing up in bell-bottoms or teddy-boy pants, they also started singing
{aloud!!} the songs that these heros would sing. Females in general having
better things to do in life, devoted themselves to more meaningful and
cerebral pursuits and didn't go all over the place singing those songs. Of
course, at times when they were busy in doing something really important,
they might hum a tune in a distracted way, but rarely will you ever come
across females singing songs with a full galaa behind it. {Unless of course,
if they are in the music business :) }. So which songs are generally seen to
be sung by humans (males and females} ? The male songs of course. So which
are more popular? {C'Mon now, this was the easy one!!} The ones that we hear
more people singing i.e. male songs.
Lemma: In tandem songs, the male version is more popular.
Proof: Tandem songs are songs. Among songs in general, male songs are most
popular. By applying the general rule to the special case, we find
that male versions of tandem songs are more popular.
Q. E. D. { Always wanted to imitate that BBC program's catchword. :)}
Apologies are due to Einstein and the Quantum people
Darwin and the Evolutionists
Freud { for shamelessly borrowing from his works }
males { for telling 'em the shameful secret of their
purpose in life }
females { for telling males the shameful secret of
their purpose in life }.
Later,
Ikram.
ps. Yes, I didn't have anything better to do. :)
And btw, I do believe in the two principles. As for the proofs, there
might be other ways to explain this. :)
: Regards,
rebala gopinath
In article <4nug4c$r...@news.tamu.edu>,
Ikram Ahmed Khan <iak...@eesun2.tamu.edu> wrote:
:-) :-) [Basically lots of funny stuff and statements that male singers
have been more popular and more stuff that is appended at the end]
As for the assertion that male singers have more songs, I don't think
that's the case. Fortunately this issue can be addressed by facts and
not opinions. I don't have all the numbers but from the numbers posted
on the net (I have those for the 50's) songs by female singers far outnumber
those by men. This is almost true of all the movies I know of from 40's,
50's and early 60's. Most of the songs in most films of this era are by
female singers, there are some duets and an odd male solo. The numbers I
am referring are mostly those posted by Surjit and Preetam.
Towards late 60's and 70's this imbalance got corrected (fact) and the
quality declined (opinion). Even the so-called revival era that started
with QSQT was dominated by female singers (mostly Alka Yagnik and Anuradha
Paudwal). When KSanu started getting a upper hand we called it an end of
that revival :-) In any case aren't female characters supposed to express
themselves by singing in both happy and sad states and male characters
do the manly thing viz. fighting etc :-)
Assuming the data I have about male/female ratios is correct we can say
that female singers have generally had more songs in a film than male
singers. What about popularity? I think that here again female singers
have more hits than male singers though the proportion of hits could be
more for male singers. Opinions, facts would be appreciated.
Now onto opinions. I feel that Hindi films largely have been musicals
and the songs are not dictated that much by the story. Songs really
aren't a part of the narrative flow but instead special situation
is created that allow for the song. Thus the story/plot has little
or no impact on the fact as to how many songs are by male singers and
how many by females (films on singers e.g. Baiju Bawra are exceptions).
Thus it's upto the MD to decide how many songs the films had and who
sings it.
More later.
Kalyan
Kuntal Shah
:> Ikram Ahmed Khan <iak...@eesun2.tamu.edu> wrote:
>> A significant number of the male
>> population who found that they were generally unsuccessful in
>> coming up with original ideas to win over the desired female
>> decided to copy these heros who seemed to always get the girl
>> that mattered to them. So, besides dressing up in bell-bottoms
>> or teddy-boy pants, they also started singing {aloud!!} the
>> songs that these heros would sing.
I would say that males, having failed even after mimicking their heroes in
their efforts to win over the desired female then turn to singing ( and that's
why "sad" songs are more popular than "happy" songs...
>> Females in general having
>> better things to do in life, devoted themselves to more
>> meaningful and cerebral pursuits and didn't go all over the
>> place singing those songs.
Could that meaningful thing be running after males ? :)
May be there is one more factor : the ( singing ) skill gap between average
male and pro male singers is narrow enough to encourage them to try singing
those songs. While pro female singers sing much better than an average female,
so you do not see too many average females trying to imitate female singers.
This is more true with Kumar Sanus around : ppl are trying to imitate KSanu,
knowing that KSanu is TRYING to imitate KK, and so the day KSanu sounds like
KK, they can also do so easily.
Also, it is easier for females to try their skills at male versions of the
songs than for males to try out female versions of songs.
--
Kuntal.
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would like to add few more songs to
the list...
these songs are equalky good in both versions
1)aur kya ahd e Wafa hote hain.. asha, suresh wadkar.
2)kaise koi jeeye.. geeta dutt, hemant da
3) subah ka intezar kaun kare... joru ka bhai movie
talat and lata
4)dil laga kar hum ye samjhe... asha mahendra kapoor
5)