PYAASA / Jinhe Naaz Hai Hind Par / Was it cut by Censor Board
maild...@yahoo.com
==============================================
Accoring to a story item in The Asian Age (s supplement newspaper with
Times of India), dated April 10th,
2005, this song was banned by the Censor Board.
Does anyone remembers seeing this film at its initial release without
this song ? When was the cut restored ?
I do remember seeing this film in early 60s with the song .
Query # 2: Can someone point-out the difference between the soundtrack
and 78 rpm versions, e.g. giving the
total duration of each or slight variations in rendering the words ?
Thanks
Sudhir
Satish Kalra
news:1113277033.3...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I saw the film on the first day of its release (March 1, 1957) , the second
show (3.30 p.m.) at the Regal cinema in Con. Place, New Delhi, and the song
was very much there. And within the first week, I saw the film three more
times - with no changes.
The confusion may have been caused due to the fact that when the LP of its
soundtrack was first released, it had incomplete (or edited out) versions of
both "jinhen naaz hai hind par..." and "ye mehlon ye takhton ....". The
time and space thus saved on the LP record was utilized by including some of
the spoken poetry in the film.
More on the differences between the 78s Vs. the film later (April 15 is just
around the corner, Yeah!!).
--
Happy Listenings.
Satish Kalra
maild...@yahoo.com
fanatics had dug up tunnels from their home to
cinema halls. Seeing a film four times in 7 days period
is incredible. I saw the film 5 times, over a span of 15 years, but
then I had to traverse the distance on a bike.
Hats off to Satish ji.
Sudhir
maild...@yahoo.com
Any chance that you be able to give some pointers on this question ?
Thanks
Sudhir
Satish Kalra
PYAASA / Jinhe Naaz Hai Hind Par / Was it cut by Censor Board
==============================================
Accoring to a story item in The Asian Age (s supplement newspaper with
Times of India), dated April 10th,
2005, this song was banned by the Censor Board.
Does anyone remembers seeing this film at its initial release without
this song ? When was the cut restored ?
I do remember seeing this film in early 60s with the song .
Query # 2: Can someone point-out the difference between the soundtrack
and 78 rpm versions, e.g. giving the
total duration of each or slight variations in rendering the words ?
Thanks
{And then on 5-02-05}:
<maild...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1115019786....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
I dug the VHS (recorded back in 1979 or so) out and have listened to the
song in its entirety. The duration of the song in the film is exactly 6
minutes and 7 seconds. The 'antaraas' (if I can call them that) are as
follows:
1. ye kuuche ye niilaam ghar dilkashii ke
2. ye purpech galiyaan ye badnaam baazaar
3. ye sadiyon se bekhwaab sahamii sii galiyaan
4. vo ujale dariichon mein paayal kii chhanchhan
5. ye phuulon ke gajare ye piikon ke chhinte
6. yahaan piir bhii aa chuke hain jawaan bhii
7. madad chaahatii hai ye hawwaa kii betii
8. zaraa mulk ke rahbaron ko bulaao
As far as I can remember, these were the lyrics on the two sides of the 78
rpm records as well. So, AFAICR, there was no difference between those and
the film lyrics, though the total timing on the 78s could have been just a
little longer due to the repetition of musical prelude on side 2 of the
reocrd, but by not more than just five seconds or so.
As mentioned in my earlier post, the song was very much there in its initial
rlease as well, and besides that first week, I have seen the film a number
of times again in the ensuing years, and never found any difference in the
lyrics or the scenes or the overall film. From this point of view, the
aricle in the Asian Age is erroneous in stating that the song was banned by
the Censors. They might have objected to it initially (especailly the
lyrics for stanza No. 8, IMO), before issuing a cerificate to the film, but
thankfully they did not cut the song out, as it is crucial in the entire
film. The censor board certificate for the film is dated Feb. 19, 1957, and
the film was released in Delhi on Friday, March 1, 1957.
The censor certificate is in the "U" (for Universal exhibition) category,
i.e., it was not restricted for Adults Only which carries an "A"
certificate. However, the presence of a triangle in the bttom left corner
of the censor board certificate does denote that some scenes/dialogues were
cut from the film. Which ones, and of what duration, I don't recall. But
if someone can gain access to Hindi film magazines of those years, such as
Filmi Duniya or Chitrapat, they used to carry every month the details of the
cuts ordered by the censors, including the censored dialogues .
It should also be noted that it was after the release of this film that the
governmental authorities started abolishing the established centers of
prostitution in major cities, e.g., the G.B. Road area in Delhi. That this
action ultimately led to the scattering of such "houses" all over the city
in the years to follow is another story.
I think you should write to the Asian Age pointing out the factual error
about the song to them.
Satish Kalra
news:1113542306.7...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Wow ! Those were the days my friend, when film-
> fanatics had dug up tunnels from their home to
> cinema halls. Seeing a film four times in 7 days period
> is incredible. I saw the film 5 times, over a span of 15 years, but
> then I had to traverse the distance on a bike.
To tell the truth, even I used to roam around the city (Delhi) on a
bi-cycle, until my final year in college. The money saved on bus fares,
etc., would come in handy to see films. :)
Anand Tiwari
including my father that Pt. Nehru was extremely angry after listening
to the song. The line 'jinhe naaz hai hind par woh kahaan hain" rankled
him the most. His reaction was how could somebody say this. To satisfy
Pt. Nehru, a special screening was held for him. After seeing the song
in context, he agreed that the song was valid given the situation in
the film and withdrew his objection. The movie was released with the
song intact. That is all i know
anand
maild...@yahoo.com
this song on Tape / Film / Classics Forever / SPHO 830202
(published in Sept 2001) is about 5:45 minutes. On a VCD, which
I recently bought, the duration is about 5:52 minutes.
As far as wrting to Asian Age, it will be a useless excercise. Almost
all Indian newspapers have quite a bit of errorous articles. For
example,
Economics Times in their Apr 1, 2005 issue, had an article on 'How to
Calculate monthly installment on a Loan' The formula used was wrong
and hence the result. For a Rs 500,000 loan, 5 years term at 9%
interest,
the installment figure (called: EMI in India) was given as: 10,712,
while
per calculations , the figure should be: 10,379.18
------------------
Thnaks Mr. Tiwari
----------------
Sudhir
Satish Kalra
news:1115260493.9...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks Satish ji. The write-up was very enjoyable. The duration of
> this song on Tape / Film / Classics Forever / SPHO 830202
> (published in Sept 2001) is about 5:45 minutes. On a VCD, which
> I recently bought, the duration is about 5:52 minutes.
I wonder which portions they would have been able to cut for the duration of
15 seconds! Perhaps the introductory prelude music with Rafi's humming!
>
> As far as wrting to Asian Age, it will be a useless excercise. Almost
> all Indian newspapers have quite a bit of errorous articles. For
> example,
> Economics Times in their Apr 1, 2005 issue, had an article on 'How to
> Calculate monthly installment on a Loan' The formula used was wrong
> and hence the result. For a Rs 500,000 loan, 5 years term at 9%
> interest,
> the installment figure (called: EMI in India) was given as: 10,712,
> while
> per calculations , the figure should be: 10,379.18
Well, the article was in the issue dated April 1, wasn't it!! :)
Jokes apart: All the more reason to write to them. Though unrelated to
this topic, that is the reason I keep harping back on the erroneous use of
"hain" and "hai", or other such matters. More recently, it has now started
seeping in more frequently. In another forum, somene wrote not too long
ago that ...'panrah' is the word for the number '15' in Hindi.
As a community, we have to maintain a certain level of standard and
consistency, be it the language or sciences or the arts, films included. If
the attitude of "I don't know" and "I don't care" continues on, we would
find ourselves alienated, sooner than later.
maild...@yahoo.com
playing
at a slower speed. I have not been able to figure out, as to why it
happens,
since the specially designed motor is supposed to spin at constant
speed,
irrespective of voltage input (generally 12 V DC) or ear and tear.
I generally play a Test Tape (reading taken when the equipment is just
out
of the box) every few months and then try to get the deck repaired, if
possible.
On my VCD and Tape / PYAASA / Classics Forever there is no cut in
the beginning or the end.
Sudhir
p.s.: On another issue, I did write to Asian Age, but haven't heard
from them.
They are too busy counting the beans (now called: 'Mullah'
in India)
---------------------------
Chetan Vinchhi
<maild...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1115290913....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> The time difference can happen due to VHS player or Cassette Deck
> playing at a slower speed.
If this is the case, the two outputs will play at different pitches. The time
difference alluded to would map to a 2% change in pitch, which should
be discernible in a back-to-back listening test.
C
pradeep
Since the VHS machine has to produce a video signal at 25 frames/sec or
30 frames/sec, it cannot play at a slower than normal, stipulated
speed. There are several servos involved in the functioning of a VHS
player that make it keep an accurate speed.
Furthermore, it may interest you to know that when a film is
transferred onto video in PAL (Or more specifically in 625/50), it is
played on the telecine machine at 25 frames/sec as against the 24
frames/sec- the shooting speed for film, thereby causing a slight
speeded playback. On 525/60, it is played during transfer at 24
frames/sec so this difference would not come in.
On an audio cassette player, if the speed is slow as to be as much as
2% in error, I am sure anyone with a good ear for music would notice
it. So it is likely there is some 'editing' in the song that you have
on audio cassette.
....Pradeep
Satish Kalra
news:1115359483.6...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
I am a tehnologically "challenged" person, hence cannot get deep into the
VHS versus audio Tape speed technicalities.
However, I did take out my audio cassette combo of Pyaasaa/Sahib Biwi Ghulam
today, and played the song on the video and audio-tape simultaneously. The
audio tape did actually play at a slightly faster clip, with the result that
by the time half the song was over, the audio tape was already one full line
ahead of the video version. {This tape combo is from the LP of Pyaasaa
which was issued with some poetry, etc., but clipped versions of "jinhen
naaz hai.." and "ye meahalon ye takhton...", so I could not compare the full
song's time differential, which could be the 15-seconds that Sudhir has
alluded to - 5'52" on the audio versus 6'07" on the video.}
maild...@yahoo.com
I am quite pleased to learn that you know the technical aspects about
VHS transfer.
I agree on the fact that when a new VHS
tape is played on a perfect player, the speed will be 4% higher for PAL
system (i.e. the one used in India).
You missed the point in my posting, which was that due to wear and
tear
of VHS player, the tape transport
speed may change. While, I had
stated that Satish ji's player might
have been playing at a slower speed
(hence longer duration), my own
experience with Cassett Tape Deck
has been that the tend to play the
tape at a faster speed.
To correct this problem for Pre-Recorded
tapes, I have been using a Cassette
Deck with pitch control. Not only that,
I also have a CD player and the
TurnTable also with pitch control.
If you want to check wether or not my
statement is correct, then just play the
Tape / CD of LOOTERA / Laxmikant
Pyarelal. The source recording of this
release is Video Tape. Lata's voice
extremely shrill (most of the songs are in her voice - some have chorus
too).
Mr X in Bombay / Shriman Funtoosh
is another example.
All these releases are Soundtrack
versions. All prior releases - EPs /
Films or Compilations / Artists were
from 78 rpm.
Sudhir
p.s.: I would like to learn little bit more
about transfer of 35 mm film to Video
Tape. Can you please enlighten us
as to how the Audio Track of 35 mm
film, which is 8 frames ahead of corresponding video frame is
synchronized on VHS tape.
Thanks
pradeep
> Mr. Pradeep:
>
> I am quite pleased to learn that you know the technical aspects about
> VHS transfer.
>
> I agree on the fact that when a new VHS
> tape is played on a perfect player, the speed will be 4% higher for
PAL
> system (i.e. the one used in India).
>
> You missed the point in my posting, which was that due to wear and
> tear
> of VHS player, the tape transport
> speed may change.
Sudhir,
On a VHS VCR or for that matter any video player that is (supposed to
be #) playing at normal speed, that speed *has to be* rock steady at 25
frames/sec. Every such device plays back locked to a xtal through
servos. The entire mechanism is designed to ensure normal speed
playback, when set to do so. This includes accounting for wear and tear
within its limits. The servos adjust themselves to this wear and tear
until it goes beyond their means to do so. At that point, you would no
longer continue to exprience normal playback: in case of a VHS VCR, you
would see the tracking noise-bar roll across in the least. The picture
would be impaired from then on and the sound would become wobbly until
the problem is fixed.
# Supposed to be playing at normal speed: meaning the operational
controls are set thus and not for slo- mo or speeded playback (usually
referred to as DT playback) as is available on professional VTRs.
While, I had
> stated that Satish ji's player might
> have been playing at a slower speed
> (hence longer duration), my own
> experience with Cassett Tape Deck
> has been that the tend to play the
> tape at a faster speed.
>
Satish is corroborating your experience viz. the audio cassette player
played faster than the video. The only explanation that comes to my
mind is that the audio master that was used to make the audio cassette
as well as the CD was played back at faster than normal speed, either
by design or through a mishap. By design because it may have been
necessary to fit the slightly longer song into a vinyl (78 rpm/ 45 rpm)
which allowed fixed max lengths. On account of a mishap because my own
experience with HMV is that it could be careless on occassions. How
could the master be played faster than normal on two separate
occasions? It could be that they played it faster than normal once when
they cut the vinyl, and subsequently used the vinyl itself as the
master for making audio cassettes/ CDs. All of us have come across such
HMV cassettes/ CDs that have distinct rumbling of the vinyl disc
playing back. On the other hand, when the video rights company
telecine'd, it did so from the original negative/ print.
In my post, I had written "On an audio cassette player, if the speed is
slow as to be as much as 2% in error, I am sure anyone with a good ear
for music would notice it." But that may not be correct for such small
difference unless one has the real reference playing side by side, and
even then it seems the difference has to be greater before the pitch
change is discernible.
>
> p.s.: I would like to learn little bit more
> about transfer of 35 mm film to Video
> Tape. Can you please enlighten us
> as to how the Audio Track of 35 mm
> film, which is 8 frames ahead of corresponding video frame is
> synchronized on VHS tape.
>
> Thanks
A video duplication facility first makes its own video master on a
professional/ semi professional VTR. Subsequently it is this master
that is played to copy onto VHS VCRs.
The telecine machine takes care of the syncing if one is transferring
from a print. The audio head is positioned to account for the
displacement exactly as in a projector. If one is transfering from a
negative and using a sepmag synchroniser, the operators would initially
sync the two by correct placements of the film and the track and the
sepmag is locked to the telecine to follow it. Some facilities may not
use a sepmag but instead transfer the optical from the telecine itself.
In this case, they record the picture and sound sequentially on two
video master tapes and then synch the sound & picture on the tapes
through editing. Hope this helps.
....Pradeep
maild...@yahoo.com
EPs (4 songs / record) and LPs (12 songs per recrd). The
practice has been to chop-off the tail (and in few cases, little
bit in the beginning to accomodate all the selected songs)
Specific examples are:
AJI BUS SHUKRIYA / Sari Sari Raat Ter (tail chopped off)
on EP / Aji Bus
Shukriya + ??
Shah Jehan / Jab Us Ne Gessu Bikhraye ( slight cut in the
beginning) on LP / Shamshad
There is another source for wrong duration for Cassette Tapes.
The Slave Duplicating machine, may play the Souce at Faster r
Speed or the Recording decks may run at Slower Speed.
In any event, if one is familiar with the song or the singer's voice,
he / she can make out the difference.
Sudhir
For Satish ji
=========
The LP / CD / Tapes - any combination - except: Classics ForEver
are from 78 rpm source for songs and soundtrack source for
nazms.
Complete (Part 1 & 2) of two Part 1 only songs of the above albums,
were released on very few LPs / Tapes