Kishore Kumar: Evergreen Entertainer
Ket...@att.net
In memory of his 72nd birth anniversary, bengaliculture.about.com has this
feature on Kishore Kumar. Most of the stuff has been written before and
discussed. However, I am particularly interested in reviews from people
knowledgeable about his Bengali work--Rabindra Sangeet, Adhunik Gaan, et al.
What was the reaction of the Bongs when HE sang Rabindra Sangeet? Amusement?
Anger?
Some of the other URL's feature photos, Bengali songs etc. I am putting all the
URL's below but I am having trouble accessing them myself, so am not sure if
they do work. I am therefore posting the entire article from what I could
access, out here. I have formatted it, but again am not sure if it will appear
that way.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bengaliculture.about.com/library/weekly/aa080701a.htm
http://bengaliculture.about.com/library/weekly/extra/bl-kishorequotes.htm
http://bengaliculture.about.com/library/weekly/extra/bl-kishoresongs.htm
http://bengaliculture.about.com/library/weekly/extra/bl-kishoregallery.htm
Kishore Kumar: Evergreen Entertainer!
Kishore Kumar — there is only one such person in the history of Indian cinema!
"True genius" is perhaps the only word to describe him, for he defies any one
particular definition for an artiste. He could sing and dance; act and mimic;
write and compose; make you laugh and cry; and he lived a life that challenged
all social norms. Kishore Kumar's hilarious movies, and his ever-enchanting
songs make him the most memorable multifaceted talent of Bengali origin of all
times.
Born on August 4, 1929, in Khandwa, Madhya Pradesh, India, Abhas Kumar Gangoly
(his real name) was the youngest son of Kunjhalal Gangoly and Gauri Devi. Music
and culture was in his blood. In Kishore's own words: "My father was a pleader
(advocate) who earned Rs 30 a month. My mama, Dhananjay Banerjee, a classical
singer, was the only family link I had with music. But I was never trained to be
a singer. It was my brother Dadamoni (Ashok Kumar) who learnt music from the
well-known Saraswati Devi."
Neither school nor college interested him. As he once said: "I used to compose
different tunes for different subjects. For instance, I composed a tune for a
paragraph on the Malthusian theory of population." Music was the heart and soul
of Kishore. "Very early in life I was fascinated by K.L. Saigal. I used to save
my pocket money to buy his records. He's my real guru."
When his elder brother Ashok Kumar became a favourite Bombay Talkies hero,
Kishore and his younger brother Anoop were still struggling to pass out college
exams. The family finally moved to Bombay in 1946, in the hope that Ashok Kumar,
whose career as an actor had just taken off, would be able to find jobs for the
boys in films. That's how Kishore Kumar went on to become an actor, which he
never wanted.
"I only wanted to sing…But somehow…I was persuaded to act in the movies. I hated
every moment of it and tried virtually every trick to get out of it." But
Kishore did make a successful film career. As he said, "I was the biggest draw
after Dilip Kumar. There were so many films I was doing in those days that I had
to run from one set to the other, changing on the way." He acted in some eighty
films in all, the most remarkable being Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi, Door Gagan Ki
Chhaon Mein, and Parosan.
Today Kishore Kumar's fame rests almost entirely on his wonderful legacy of
songs. Beginning with Ziddi in 1948, Kishore Kumar produced thousands of soulful
songs with immense fervour, intense emotion and exceptional versatility. He sang
for all the Bengali music directors of Bollywood, from Sachin Dev and Rahul Dev
Burman, Anil Biswas and Salil Chowdhury to Hemant Kumar, Shyamal Mitra and Bappi
Lahiri. He received many national and international awards and did stage shows
all over the world. He is often compared with the likes of Bob Hope and Danny
Kaye. Kishore also produced and directed about a dozen movies. His favourite
director was Alfred Hitchcock.
Although born outside Bengal, Kishore Kumar was a true Bengali, from all
possible points of view.
Unforgettable Puja Songs
To the Bengalis, Kishore is most memorable for his Puja albums, which mostly
contained Bengali songs that he composed himself. Who can forget the magical
semi-classical rendition in Noyono Sharashi Keno, Aamar Moner Ei Moyur Mahaley,
Aamar Dweep Nebhano Raat? His Bangla fun songs Shingh Nei Tobu Naam Taar
Shingho, Bum Chicki Bum, Gaaner Gaw Jaani Na, and Daake Lokey Aamake Clown are
one-of-its kind in the history of Bangla "gaan".
Kishore & Ray
The great Bengali filmmaker Satyajit Ray never failed to recognise his genius.
He summoned Kishore for the playback of the Tagore songs in Charulata and Ghare
Bairey. Ray also wanted him to act in Parash Pathar, and sing the songs of Goopi
Gayin Bagha Bayin, which never happened. Kishore is rumoured to have lent him
five thousand rupees during the production of Ray's seminal debut film Pather
Panchali (Song of the Little Road).
Kishore & Hemanta
Kishore cut two "Rabindra Sangeet" albums under the baton of Hemanta
Mukhopadhyay, who was also the composer of many of his most popular "Adhunik
Gaan" (pop songs), like Aamar Pujar Phool and Shey Jeno Aamar Pashey Aajo Boshe
Aachhe. Kishore's Bengali films include the extremely popular Lukochuri
(Hide'n'seek), Dushtu Projapoti (The Naughty Butterfly), and a few other
memorable flicks.
The Unhappy Heart
This exciting person, who made us laugh and cry with his scintillating
performances, was not a happy man in personal life. He married four times, all
actors — Ruma Ghosh, Madhubala, Yogeeta Bali and Leena Chandravarkar. Kishore
Kumar died of a heart attack in Mumbai on 13th October, 1987. He is survived by
his wife Leena and sons Sumit and Amit Kumar, who is also a gifted singer.
The Inimitable Voice
Kishore Kumar will always be remembered for his lively, sonorous and flexible
voice that today's singers try to copy in vain. Kishore Valicha, in his book
Kishore Kumar, The Definitive Biography, writes: "It may not be wrong to say
that Kishore Kumar's was the second golden voice India has produced, if the
first is that of Kundan Lal Saigal. Kishore's voice was not only a magnificent
intonation in itself but belonged to the tradition-governed glorious era of
melody, which ended, in a way, with his departure. Kishore Kumar marked the end
of an era of great film music."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kishore Kumar FAQ!
Crazy Comments & Quotes Special Feature
Preeti Ganguly, Kishore's niece and Ashok Kumar's daughter, says about the
legendary singer: "…He was very childlike and innocent. There was always a sense
of wonder about him." Here're some other tell-tale quotes and comments from
Kishore himself, his family members and friends.
Was Kishore Kumar mad?
"I'm mad, true. But only about one thing. Horror movies. I love spooks. They are
a friendly fearsome lot. Very nice people, actually, if you get to know them.
Not like these industry chaps out here…" ~ Kishore Kumar
Was Kishore a money maniac?
"Like Dad, Kaka was quite paranoid about money, and about not being paid. But
Kaka's eccentricities made him do funny things. ... At another time when he
discovered his dues hadn't been fully paid, Kaka landed up for shooting with
make-up on only one side of his face. No one really noticed, until all the
lights were switched on. "What's this?" asked the shocked director. Kaka
nonchalently replied, "Aadha paisa to aadha make-up. Pura paisa to pura
make-up."...Occasionally when he'd come home, I would ask him, "Kaka, why don't
you act anymore? You're so brilliant." He'd reply firmly. "No. I'll never act
for other producers again." He hated to collect payment from people, to chase
them for his money..." ~ Preeti Ganguly
Was Kishore a glutton?
"Kaka was also very fond of food, especially of mangshor jhol, a thin
Bengali-style mutton curry, with maida puris (handmade bread). He loved the way
Mummy cooked it, and she'd prepare it for him everytime he came here. When he
came here after Mummy died, I had it especially made for him. He was very
touched and said, "You remembered, Pallu." He also loved tiny bits of gobi
(cauliflower). He'd say, "Cover me with mounds of fried gobi. I'll lie under
them and keep eating the gobi. Even after I've finished it all, I'm sure I won't
be satisfied!"" ~ Preeti Ganguly
What was the secret of Kishore Kumar, the singer?
"Kishore's voice hits the mike, straight, at its most sensitive point — and
that's the secret of his success as a singer without peer!" ~ Ashok Kumar
When did musician Salil Chowdhury recognize Kishore's talent?
"Not until the vocal results Kishore gave me, some 18 years later, in Gulzar's
Mere Apne, with Koi hota jis ko apna hum apna keh lete yaaron, did I get a real
idea of how totally I had misjudged the depth and dimension of the lad as a
singer." ~ Salil Chowdhury
Why did RD Burman compositions make the best Kishore songs?
"Kishore wants this tape in advance, because he doesn't just sing a song; he
feels it; savours it; experiences it; before entering the music room to record
it…My best songs for Kishore have been done this way…So strikingly different, in
fact, was the result when I managed to send the tape to Kishore, two days in
advance, that I could, here, offhand reel off the songs done this way, for me,
by this my pet performer." ~ R D Burman
Who was Kishore's favourite actor?
"I am a crazy fan of Topol's. When we were in London, I saw an advertisement of
Fiddler on the Roof in the drama section of a newspaper. I thought they'd made a
mistake. When I checked, I was told that there WAS a stage show of "Fiddler...".
I can't tell you how thrilled I was. I had seen the film at least a hundred
times and now I had an opportunity to see my favourite actor perform right in
front of me. Would you believe it, I attended all the four consecutive shows. I
went backstage to introduce myself to Topol and even took his autograph. I still
remember the date - September 9, 1983. He presented me a copy of his
autobiography, Topol by Topol, and I presented him the records and cassettes of
my songs. In 1960, he was only 48-49 but still he played the old man so
beautifully. I think nobody, just nobody, can perform the way Topol did in
Fiddler. He actually sings through the whole film. Neither Dilip Kumar nor Ashok
Kumar can match him." ~ Kishore Kumar
What was Kishore favourite place?
"I am determined to get out of this futile rat race and live as I've always
wanted to. In my native Khandwa, the land of my forefathers. Who wants to die in
this ugly city?" ~ Kishore Kumar
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shyamal Pain
<Ket...@att.net> wrote in message news:9lbhr...@drn.newsguy.com...
>
> In memory of his 72nd birth anniversary, bengaliculture.about.com has this
> feature on Kishore Kumar. Most of the stuff has been written before and
> discussed. However, I am particularly interested in reviews from people
> knowledgeable about his Bengali work--Rabindra Sangeet, Adhunik Gaan, et
al.
> What was the reaction of the Bongs when HE sang Rabindra Sangeet?
Amusement?
> Anger?
He sang very few Rabindra Sangeets. I think his rendition was good. But it
was
his Adhuniks ( contemporary songs) that made him extremely popular. His
songs
in RD Burman's tune were hits. Then he started his own compositions and
created
some serious music such as Noyono Sarasi keno , Aamar moner ei etc.
As the article says, Satyajit Ray was fond of Kishore. He wanted Kishore to
sing
in his children's movie Goopi Gyne Bagha Byne. But Kishore was busy in
Mumbai
and could not give dates. So he had to use a newcomer Anup Ghoshal. Now Anup
Ghoshal is one of the major artists of Bengali songs.
SKalra902
...snipped...
>As the article says, Satyajit Ray was fond of Kishore. He wanted Kishore to
>sing
>in his children's movie Goopi Gyne Bagha Byne.
IIRC, Ruma Guha, Kishore's first wife, was a niece of Satyajit Ray. That
connection may also have been responsible for the 'reported' loan to Mr. Ray.
On a side note, I have been looking for the Bengali album "Dui Kishore",
released after his death (according to an interview in Filmfare by Amit Kumar,
sometime in 1989). So far, no luck. I urge all RMIMers to be on the look out
for this album and to make inquiries at their local desi music stores. Maybe
someone may turn out to be lucky!
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Ashok
Ketan, I thought you always "respected copyrights" by posting
on the URL and not the article. Now, what made you change
the policy and dump this Bong inanity on us? We don't really
need additional proof of the stupid lengths to which Bengalis
go to stake their claims where it simply doesn't belong. What
has Kishore got to do with Bengaliculture anyway? He was great
precisely to the extent that he was not a Bengali.
>In memory of his 72nd birth anniversary, bengaliculture.about.com has this
>feature on Kishore Kumar. Most of the stuff has been written before and
>discussed. However, I am particularly interested in reviews from people
>knowledgeable about his Bengali work--Rabindra Sangeet, Adhunik Gaan, et al.
>What was the reaction of the Bongs when HE sang Rabindra Sangeet? Amusement?
>Anger?
Contempt, actually. He was a poor Raveendra Sangeet singer. Actually,
make it more general: he was a poor Bengali singer.
>Kishore Kumar: Evergreen Entertainer!
>...................Kishore Kumar's hilarious movies, and his ever-enchanting
>songs make him the most memorable multifaceted talent of Bengali origin of all
>times.
What an idiotic sentence!
>Born on August 4, 1929, in Khandwa, Madhya Pradesh, India, Abhas Kumar Gangoly
>(his real name) was the youngest son of Kunjhalal Gangoly and Gauri Devi. Music
>and culture was in his blood. In Kishore's own words: "My father was a pleader
>(advocate) who earned Rs 30 a month. My mama, Dhananjay Banerjee, a classical
>singer, was the only family link I had with music.
So, waht was the case? Music was in his blood or not?
>"I only wanted to sing…But somehow…I was persuaded to act in the movies. I hated
>every moment of it and tried virtually every trick to get out of it."
This goes directly against the legend that KK acolytes have spread
on RMIM: that he didn't sing more--to the extent of letting Rafi
playback for him--because he was concentrating on his "acting career",
if you can call it that..
>Today Kishore Kumar's fame rests almost entirely on his wonderful legacy of
>songs.
OK. Put zero in front of all other facets of the "most memorable multifaceted
talent of Bengali origin of all time".
>................................................................. He sang
>for all the Bengali music directors of Bollywood, from Sachin Dev and Rahul Dev
>Burman, Anil Biswas and Salil Chowdhury to Hemant Kumar, Shyamal Mitra and Bappi
>Lahiri.
This is what this Bong idiot is proud of--that Bong MDs made sure that
another Bong got the opportunity to sing?
He received many national and international awards and did stage shows
>all over the world.
What international awards has Kishore gotten?
>Although born outside Bengal, Kishore Kumar was a true Bengali, from all
>possible points of view.
Let me pass this by without comment.
>The Inimitable Voice
>Kishore Kumar will always be remembered for his lively, sonorous and flexible
>voice that today's singers try to copy in vain. Kishore Valicha, in his book
>Kishore Kumar, The Definitive Biography, writes: "It may not be wrong to say
>that Kishore Kumar's was the second golden voice India has produced, if the
>first is that of Kundan Lal Saigal. Kishore's voice was not only a magnificent
>intonation in itself but belonged to the tradition-governed glorious era of
>melody, which ended, in a way, with his departure. Kishore Kumar marked the end
>of an era of great film music."
Actually, melody took a back seat exactly when Kishore got going as a fullfledged
playback singer.
> What was Kishore favourite place?
>"I am determined to get out of this futile rat race and live as I've always
>wanted to. In my native Khandwa, the land of my forefathers. Who wants to die in
>this ugly city?" ~ Kishore Kumar
Or in that wretched Bengal. So much for "a true Bengali, from all possible
points of view"!
Such writing--and such cheapness--from the land of Tagore! Ketan, I suggest
that you leave Begali trash for Bengali consumption.
Ashok
Shyamal Pain
Ashok,
Did some Bengali guy beat you up ? Why are you so much against
Bengalis ? Kishore was what in Bengali is called "Probasi Bangali"
or non-resident Bengali , if you will. He was not a poor Rabindra
Sangeet singer or a poor Bengali singer as you state. He was one
of the top Bengali Adhunik singers. May be a notch below Hemanta
or Manna Dey. So were Lata and Asha. We did not reject them
just because they are not Bengalis.
I think your argument is based on the fact that he was born in MP.
What would you call a sardar who is born in Kolkata? A Bengali?
He will of course be called a Punjabi.
Ashok <ADhar...@WorldBank.Org> wrote in message
news:9lcrh...@enews2.newsguy.com...
> >"I only wanted to sing.But somehow.I was persuaded to act in the movies.
Ravi Krishna
This was the most scathing post I have read in ages. Good one.
I too hated this article specially this:
"Kishore Kumar - there is only one such person in the history of Indian
cinema"
WTF? Since when hindi movies/songs == indian movies/songs.
IMO, there were better talent than overrated KK.
RK-
"Ashok" <ADhar...@WorldBank.Org> wrote in message
news:9lcrh...@enews2.newsguy.com...
> >"I only wanted to sing.But somehow.I was persuaded to act in the movies.
Ket...@att.net
>
>In article <9lbhr...@drn.newsguy.com>, Ket...@att.net says...
>
>Ketan, I thought you always "respected copyrights" by posting
>on the URL and not the article. Now, what made you change
>the policy and dump this Bong inanity on us? We don't really
>need additional proof of the stupid lengths to which Bengalis
>go to stake their claims where it simply doesn't belong. What
>has Kishore got to do with Bengaliculture anyway? He was great
>precisely to the extent that he was not a Bengali.
Can't read eh? Or am I lapsing in to some strange language again? I did mention
that I am posting the full article ONLY because the URL does not seem to work
and therefore it is possible that many others might not be able to see what the
article says. I have not really deviated from my policy to post only the URL's
as far as is possible.
>>In memory of his 72nd birth anniversary, bengaliculture.about.com has this
>>feature on Kishore Kumar. Most of the stuff has been written before and
>>discussed. However, I am particularly interested in reviews from people
>>knowledgeable about his Bengali work--Rabindra Sangeet, Adhunik Gaan, et al.
>>What was the reaction of the Bongs when HE sang Rabindra Sangeet? Amusement?
>>Anger?
>
>Contempt, actually. He was a poor Raveendra Sangeet singer. Actually,
>make it more general: he was a poor Bengali singer.
Don't know whether he was a poor R.Sangeet singer, since I have not heard much
of this genre so can't compare him to say HemantK or anyone else. However what
do you exactly mean by "poor Bengali singer"? If you are talking about his
Bengali pronunciations, how does thou come to know what is correct and what is
not? Apparently the Bongs did not think his language skills to be that bad.
Uttam Kumar opted for him as his playback singer despite the fact that a film
like "Rajkumari" with its superb soundtrack flopped badly--one of the reasons
being that initially the public could not digest HemantK or MannaD not singing
for Uttam Kumar amongst various other reasons.
>>"I only wanted to sing…But somehow…I was persuaded to act in the movies. I hated
>>every moment of it and tried virtually every trick to get out of it."
>
>This goes directly against the legend that KK acolytes have spread
>on RMIM: that he didn't sing more--to the extent of letting Rafi
>playback for him--because he was concentrating on his "acting career",
>if you can call it that..
In the initial days--late 40's/early 50's he did face resistance from MD's not
willing to take him on for singing assignments. However his comical facial
expressions did strike a chord with filmgoers and producers did approach him for
comic roles. Not finding work in the singing department he did start doing
movies. I don't think he expected as much success in this arena as he achieved.
The lure of more money, thru acting, and partly the desire to make his own
movies and hence to collect financing, kept him signing movies. As he says "he
tried virtually every trick to get out of it" but couldn't. Hence he had to have
Rafi playback for him.
Ketan
Ket...@att.net
>
>Ashok,
>
>This was the most scathing post I have read in ages. Good one.
Gawd no! Ashok's diatribe sucked more than the article. He is capable of better
vitriol. Wonder what happened this time.
>I too hated this article specially this:
>"Kishore Kumar - there is only one such person in the history of Indian
>cinema"
>
>WTF? Since when hindi movies/songs == indian movies/songs.
>
>IMO, there were better talent than overrated KK.
Hey..run out of anti-RDB remarks, Ravi? New "bakra" huh? :) Agreed that the
article by and large sucks. Also agree that Hindi movies does not equal to
Indian movies.
However the question remains : If you say KK's talent is overrated, do come up
with someone who was as successful as a
--singer/actor/producer/director/lyricist/composer/storywriter/whatever else--
in the annals of Indian cinema. Remember the original statement mentions cinema,
not just movies/songs which is what you have interepreted it as.
Ketan
PS: WTH is WTF?
Ravi Krishna
<Ket...@att.net> wrote
> However the question remains : If you say KK's talent is overrated, do
come up
> with someone who was as successful as a
Successful?
We are talking about quality here,not success.
Rajendra Kumar was a jubliee star, very successful. You know well
about the 'quality' of his acting.
> --singer/actor/producer/director/lyricist/composer/storywriter/whatever
else--
> in the annals of Indian cinema. Remember the original statement mentions
cinema,
> not just movies/songs which is what you have interepreted it as.
RK-
Ravi Krishna
<Ket...@att.net> wrote
> However the question remains : If you say KK's talent is overrated, do
come up
> with someone who was as successful as a
Successful?
We are talking about quality here,not success.
Rajendra Kumar was a jubliee star, very successful. You know well
about the 'quality' of his acting.
> --singer/actor/producer/director/lyricist/composer/storywriter/whatever
else--
> in the annals of Indian cinema. Remember the original statement mentions
cinema,
> not just movies/songs which is what you have interepreted it as.
RK-
Vijay Kumar K
Some questions... anyone...
What was Kishore's first film as actor?
What were the playback songs he sang between 1948 & 1955? I can think
of Jaal (de bhii chuke ham dil nazaraanaa), Baazi? (naiyya purani hai
aur tuufaan bhii puraane hai.n) Basically, what was he doing *as a
singer* since his Ziddi debut
till 1955? Other famous songs of his from the 50s are either on
himself (Naukri,
Ladki, Fareb) or post 1955 (Nau Do Gyarah, Paying Guest) or both
(Chalti Ka Naam
Gaadi, Chacha Zindabad)
Which film is ajab hai daastaa.N terii... from?
What is his complete filmography as MD: Jhumroo, Door Gagan Ki...,
Door Ka Raahi
and Mamta Ki... is that all?
What is his complete filmography as producer (KS Films, right?) :
Chalti Ka
Naam? Jhumroo, Door Gagan Ki..., Door Ka Raahi, Mamta Ki ... any
others?
Vijay
Ket...@att.net
>
>
><Ket...@att.net> wrote
>
>> However the question remains : If you say KK's talent is overrated, do
>come up
>> with someone who was as successful as a
>
>Successful?
>We are talking about quality here,not success.
Ok...so find me another Kishore Kumar in Indian cinema who was as good(quality
wise) as he was in all the departments I listed :
singer/actor/producer/director/lyricist/composer/storywriter/xyz....
The criteria is : One person as good as or better than Kishore in all those
departments. IIRC, the one person who comes close is SalilC. Remove the singer
and actor categories and his Pinjre Ka Panchi is not a bad movie, and Parakh is
a damn good story, and his skills as a lyricist and composer are well known. Any
others?
Ketan
Ravi Krishna
<Ket...@att.net> wrote
> Ok...so find me another Kishore Kumar in Indian cinema who was as
good(quality
> wise) as he was in all the departments I listed :
Good??? It may be good for you, not for everyone.
For eg, I find KK positively irritating as an actor, though
he was better than Anoop Kumar who looked like mentally retarded.
Only Ashok kumar is a class actor.
as for lyricist/composer, I doubt very much whether he did it
himself or was just ghost lyricist/composer :-)
RK-
Vijay Kumar
"Vijay Kumar K" <vijay...@my-deja.com> wrote in message > What is his
complete filmography as producer (KS Films, right?) :
> Chalti Ka
> Naam? Jhumroo, Door Gagan Ki..., Door Ka Raahi, Mamta Ki ... any
> others?
>
AFAK, "BaRhti ka naam daRhii" was also a Kishore production. Perhaps his
last?
Vijay Kumar
SKalra902
...snipped...
>
>In the initial days--late 40's/early 50's he did face resistance from MD's
>not
>willing to take him on for singing assignments. However his comical facial
>expressions did strike a chord with filmgoers and producers did approach him
>for
>comic roles. Not finding work in the singing department he did start doing
>movies. I don't think he expected as much success in this arena as he
>achieved.
>The lure of more money, thru acting, and partly the desire to make his own
>movies and hence to collect financing, kept him signing movies. As he says
>"he
>tried virtually every trick to get out of it" but couldn't. Hence he had to
>have
>Rafi playback for him.
I have always disagreed with that 'erroneous perception', whether encouraged by
KK himself or not. The songs that Rafi playbacked for Kishore the actor were
in Shararat; i) Ajab hai daastaan terii ai zindagii, and ii) Lushka lushka
lushka.. duniya bright bright birght duniya bright... Both the songs are in
the second half of the film, in which Kishore is now the 'devar' of Meena
Kumari, not the lover/boyfriend. As the lover/boyfriend, the songs are in
Kishore's voice, while Meena Kumari got to be playbacked by Geeta Dutt, all in
the first half of the film. Kumkum got Lata's solos 'Teraa tiir.." and "Dekha
baabuu chhed ka mazaa..".
So I would call this a directorial (including the MDs) choice, to keep the
singers different for different roles in the film.
Rafi's playbacking for Kishore again in an OPNayyar composed song (I forget the
name of the song and the film at this time) can be attributed to its being
semi-classical. In Begunaah, all the boisterous songs were in Kishore's voice
himself, but the one soft, romantic duet was recorded in Manna Dey's voice (Din
albele pyaar ka mausam...., with Lata).
All this leads to, IMO, the directors and/or MDs keeping in mind the situation
and mood, etc., of the song in the film, while deciding who would playback it.
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Surajit A. Bose
vijay...@my-deja.com (Vijay Kumar K) wrote:
> What is his complete filmography as MD: Jhumroo, Door Gagan Ki...,
> Door Ka Raahi
> and Mamta Ki... is that all?
>
> What is his complete filmography as producer (KS Films, right?) :
> Chalti Ka
> Naam? Jhumroo, Door Gagan Ki..., Door Ka Raahi, Mamta Ki ... any
> others?
There was another in the 70s called Door Vaadiyon Me Kahin. It was
songless, but IIRC Kishore did the background score.
-s
Surajit A. Bose
skal...@aol.com (SKalra902) wrote:
> Rafi's playbacking for Kishore again in an OPNayyar composed song (I forget
> the
> name of the song and the film at this time) can be attributed to its being
> semi-classical.
"man moraa baawaraa" (Raagini)
Quite a terrible song, really. No credit to Rafi, no loss to Kishore.
-s
Balaji Murthy
Partly right. The two Kishore Kumars are indeed two different people, i.e. two
different characters. SJ thus chose to use two different singers for the two
roles, Kishore himself happened to be one of them. Roshan did the same (almost)
in Anhonee, by using Rajkumari and Lata for the two roles of Nargis. In Kannada
we have another example of two different singers for two roles, that in the
Rajkumar mega hit Shankar Guru, where one character received Playback from
P.B.Srinivos and the other by Dr.Raj himself.
>So I would call this a directorial (including the MDs) choice, to keep the
>singers different for different roles in the film.
>
>Rafi's playbacking for Kishore again in an OPNayyar composed song (I forget
the
>name of the song and the film at this time) can be attributed to its being
>semi-classical. In Begunaah, all the boisterous songs were in Kishore's voice
>himself, but the one soft, romantic duet was recorded in Manna Dey's voice
(Din
>albele pyaar ka mausam...., with Lata).
I believe OP first used Rafi for Kishore in Bhagambhag. Of course, he also used
Asha for Kishore :), as you mention below keeping in mind the situation & mood.
>All this leads to, IMO, the directors and/or MDs keeping in mind the
situation
>and mood, etc., of the song in the film, while deciding who would playback it.
If I remember right, Ashok had also mentioned 'mai.n is masuum chehare ko' to
be picturized on Kishore (sung by Rafi). Only this time the MD is Bipin.
- Balaji
SKalra902
>
>Partly right. The two Kishore Kumars are indeed two different people, i.e.
>two
>different characters. SJ thus chose to use two different singers for the two
>roles, Kishore himself happened to be one of them.
Partly Right? Well, Kishore played both the roles - in the first half with
mustache, then without after the intermission.
>
>I believe OP first used Rafi for Kishore in Bhagambhag.
Rafi's voice was for Bhagwaan (the actor), Kishore's was used for himself. They
actually made a great comic duo in the film.
Of course, he also
>used
>Asha for Kishore :), as you mention below keeping in mind the situation &
>mood.
>
Using Asha's voice for a male actor, keeping in mind the situation & mood (!)
was done again in a film Jungle Mein Mungle (?), this time on Pran.
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Balaji Murthy
says...
>
>Balaji wrote:
>
>>
>>Partly right. The two Kishore Kumars are indeed two different people, i.e.
>>two
>>different characters. SJ thus chose to use two different singers for the two
>>roles, Kishore himself happened to be one of them.
>
>Partly Right? Well, Kishore played both the roles - in the first half with
>mustache, then without after the intermission.
Maybe I misread your original post. From your post I got the impression that
while in the first part of the movie he played Meena Kumari's boyfriend, later
the same character played her brother in law. Indeed Kishore played a double
role, that's what I meant by "he plays two different characters". In fact, the
first character dies.
>>I believe OP first used Rafi for Kishore in Bhagambhag.
>
>Rafi's voice was for Bhagwaan (the actor), Kishore's was used for himself.
They
>actually made a great comic duo in the film.
Who is the song 'aankhon ko mila yaar se' picturized on? Isn't one of the
people Kishore?
>Of course, he also
>>used
>>Asha for Kishore :), as you mention below keeping in mind the situation &
>>mood.
>>
>
>Using Asha's voice for a male actor, keeping in mind the situation & mood (!)
>was done again in a film Jungle Mein Mungle (?), this time on Pran.
I remember watching another interesting song in which two female voices were
used for two male characters, most likely the Shamshad, Kamal Barot duet in
Johar Mehmood in Goa. I.S.Johar and possibly Mehmood are performing a mujra.
- Balaji
Anant Rege
"Balaji Murthy" <mal...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:9lfkmj$rqn$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
Should be common in films where male characters disguise as females and have
songs. Like in Rafoo chakkar where Rishi Kapoor and Paintal got to sing 'Zuk
zuk, dhak dhak' or Biswajeet got 'Kajaraa mohabbatwaalaa' in shamshad's
voice. I wonder whether there are examples of reverse kind, where a female
got to sing in a male voice.
Anant
> - Balaji
>
SKalra902
...snipped...
>>>Partly right. The two Kishore Kumars are indeed two different people, i.e.
>>>two
>>>different characters. SJ thus chose to use two different singers for the
>two
>>>roles, Kishore himself happened to be one of them.
>>
Reading your message again, you are right - the part "...Kishore happens to be
one of them" relates to "SJ thus chose to use two different singers for the two
roles", not to "The two Kishore Kumars are indeed two different people...".
Kishore was one of the two singers, while himself playing both the characters.
Sorry about the misinterpretation.
>
>Who is the song 'aankhon ko mila yaar se' picturized on? Isn't one of the
>people Kishore?
>
Will have to dig out the video and watch it again as I don't remember much
about this particular song's picturization. The song is in the voices of Rafi
& S.D. Batish, according to the 'geetaa' by Dr. Hamraaz. The two songs by Rafi
& Kishore were definitely picturized on Bhagwaan & Kishore.
The 'geetaa' also mentions that the song "darshan kab doge naa manhar
saanwariyaa.." is in Rafi's voice alone in the film, though picturized on male
and female characters.
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Vijay Kumar K
> with someone who was as successful as a
> --singer/actor/producer/director/lyricist/composer/storywriter/whatever else--
> in the annals of Indian cinema. Remember the original statement mentions
> cinema, not just movies/songs which is what you have interepreted it as.
>
with as much or more quality, too boot. If she does not boast the same deluge of
quantity, I would credit it to her discretion.
Vijay
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
Terrible is an overstatement. Funny thing about this song - IMO, if
you were able to edit out each time Rafi sings the words "Man Mora
Baawra", the song would sound fine. It's almost like when he comes to
that line, he thinks "Oh yeah, this is supposed to be a classical
song, so I'm going to put on a stupid voice". As soon as he goes to
"Nisdin Gaaye" he sounds fine, like himself, as well as through the
antaras. But his rendition of *that* line sounds, well, like he's got
a few screws loose or he suffered a severe blow to the head.
Sanjeev
P.S. Lest any newcomers be fooled, I am a RAFIan.
Ket...@att.net
Ravi,
Thanks for continuing to be pig-headed. If you can and will read, I said as good
or better. It does not matter what I think of Kishore. Find me someone who YOU
think is as good or better based on whatever you think is "good" in Kishore.
If you would rather play with words then go right ahead.
Ciao
Ketan
Neha
> Ket...@att.net wrote in message news:<9lbhr...@drn.newsguy.com>...
> > Kishore Kumar FAQ!
>
> Some questions... anyone...
>
> What was Kishore's first film as actor?
I thought the first film in which he made an appearance was ZIDDI(Dev Anand,
Kamini). His was a small role of a maali(gardener) who would show up anywhere
at any time:).
But the filmography at http://www.yoodleeyoo.com/ shows differently:
Year Movie Director Co-Star
1946 Shikari Sawak Watcha
1947 Shehnai P.L.Santhoshi
1948 Sati Vijaya K.J.Parmar
1948 Ziddi Shaheed Latief
1949 Kaneez Krishan Kumar
1950 Muqaddar Arvind Sen Rajani
1951 Andolan Phani Majumdar Manju
1952 Chham ChhamaChham P.L.Santhoshi Manju
1952 Tamasha Phani Majumdar Rehana
1953 Fareb Shaheed Latief Shankuntala
1953 Ladki M.V.Raman Vyjanthimala
1953 Laharen N.S.Raviel Shyama
1954 Adhikar Mohan Sehgal Usha Kiran
1954 Dhobi Doctor Phani Majumdar Usha Kiran
1954 Ilzaam R.C.Talwar Meena Kumari
1954 Miss Mala Jayant Desai Vyjanthimala
1954 Naukri Bimal Roy Sheila Ramani
1954 Pehli Jhalak M.V.Ramal Vyjanthimala
1954 Teen Tasveeren S.S.Solanki
1955 Baap Re Baap A.R.Kardar Chand Usmani
1955 Char Paise N.K.Kheerie Nimmi
1955 Madh BhareNain Hem Chandra Beena Roy
1955 Rukhsana R.C.Talwar Meena Kumari
1956 Aabroo Chaturbhuj Deshi Kamini Kaushal
1956 Bhagambhaag Bhagwan Dada Shashikala
1956 Bhai Bhai M.V.Raman Nimmi
1956 Memsaahib R.C.Talwar Meena Kumari
1956 Dhake Ki Malmal J.K.Nanda Madhubala
1956 Parivar Asit Sen Usha Kiran
1956 Paise Hi Paisa Mehreeb Shakila & Mala Sinha
1956 Naya Andaaz K.Amarnath Meena Kumari
1956 New Delhi Mohan Sehgal Vyjanthimala
1957 Aasha M.V.Raman Vyjanthimala, Pran
1957 Bandi Satyen Bose Madhubala
1957 Begunah Narendra Suri Shakeela
1957 Miss Mary Prasad Jamuna
1957 Musaafir Hrishikesh Mukherjee
1958 Chalti ka Naam Gadi Satyen Bose Madhubala
1958 Chandan M.V.Raman Madhubala
1958 Dilli ka Thug S.D.Narang Nutan
1958 Kabhi Andhera Kabhi Ujala C.P.Dixit Nutan
1958 Raagini Raakhan Padmini, Zabeen
1959 ChachaZindabad Om Prakash Anita Guha
1959 Jaal Saaz Arvind Sen Mala Sinha
1959 Sharaarat H.S. Rawail Meena Kumari
1960 Apna haath Jagannath Mohan Sehgal Sayeeda Khan
1960 Bewaqoof I.S. Johar Mala Sinha
1960 Girl Friend Satyen Bose Waheeda Rehman
1960 Mehlon ke Khwab Haider Madhubala
1961 Karorpati Mohan Sehgal
1961 Jhumroo Shanker Mukherjee Madhubala
1962 Bombay ka Chor S.D.Narang Mala Sinha
1962 Half Ticket Kalidas Madhubala, Pran
1962 Man Mauji Krishnan Panju Sadhana
1962 Naughty Boy Shakti Samanta Kalpana
1962 Rangoli Amar Kumar Vyjanthimala
1963 Ek Raaz Shakti Samanta Kalpana
1964 Baghi Shehzada Maruti Kum Kum
1964 Daal Mein Kala Satyen Bose Nimmi
1964 Door Gagan ki Chaoon mein Kishore Kumar Supriya Chowdhury
1964 Ganga Ki Lahren Devi Sharma Kum Kum
1964 Mr.X in Bombay Shanti Lal Soni Kumkum
1965 Hum sub Ustad Hain Maruti Amita
1965 Shriman Funtoosh Shanti Lal Soni Kumkum
1966 Akalmand Roop K Shori Sonia Sahni
1966 Devar Mohan Sahagal Mumtaz
1966 Ladka Ladki Som Haksar Mumtaz
1966 Pyar kiya Jaa Sridhar Kalpana
1967 Albela Mastana B.J.Patel Asha Nadkarni
1967 Duniya Nachegi K.Parvez Kum Kum
1967 Hum Do Daku Kishore Kumar Ganga
1968 Do Dooni Char Debu Sen Tanuja
1968 Haye Mera Dil Ved Madan Kum Kum
1968 Padosan Jyothi Swaroop
1968 Payal ki Jhankar M.V.Raman Jyothi Laxmi
1968 Sadhu Aur Shaitan A.Bheem Singh
1968 Shrimanji Ramdayal Shaheeda
1969 Beti Harmesh Malhotra
1970 Aansoo Aur Muskan P.Madhavan
1971 Door ka Raahi Kishore Kumar Tanuja
1971 Hungama S.M.Abbas Helen
1972 Bombay to Goa S.Ramanathan (Guest Appearance)
1972 Pyar Diwana Samar Chatterji Mumtaz
1974 Badhti Ka Naam Dadhi Kishore Kumar Sheetal
1975 Love in Bombay Somu Mukherji
1978 Ek Baap Chhe Bete Mahmood (Guest Appearance)
1979 Shabash Daddy Kishore Kumar Yogita Bali
1981 Chalti Ka Naam Zindagi Kishore Kumar Vijaya, Rita
1982 Apmaan Dr. Ami Asthana
1982 Sun Sajna Chandar Bahal
1982 Door Wadiyon Mein Kahin Kishore Kumar
FILMOGRAPHY - AS A MUSIC DIRECTOR
Year Movie
1961 Jhumroo
1964 Door Gagan Ki Chhaon Mein
1967 Hum Do Daku
1971 Door Ka Rahi
1972 Zameen Aasman
1974 Badti Ka Naam Dadhi
1979 Sabash Daddy
1981 Chalti Ki Naam Zindagi
1982 Door Wadiyon Mein
1990 Mamta Ki Chhaon Mein
I hope this helps.
--
Neha
Srinivas Ganti
> But the filmography at http://www.yoodleeyoo.com/ shows differently:
>
> Year Movie Director Co-Star
>
Devar is a 1966 movie directed by Mohan Sahgal. However it neither has KK
nor Mumtaz.
I saw this movie a couple of days back and I am sure about it. Dharmendra,
Sharmila Tagore, Deven Varma, Shashikala are the lead players.
SG.
Ashok
>
>............................. It's almost like when he comes to
>that line, he thinks "Oh yeah, this is supposed to be a classical
>song, so I'm going to put on a stupid voice".
>Sanjeev
So, according to you Rafi thought that classical songs ought
to be sung in a stupid voice. You might be right. It does
explain his singing in many songs.
Ashok
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
That's not exactly what I said, but I can count on you to infer this.
:-)
surjit singh
> vijay...@my-deja.com (Vijay Kumar K) wrote in message news:<f9e9d452.01081...@posting.google.com>...
> > Ket...@att.net wrote in message news:<9lbhr...@drn.newsguy.com>...
> > > Kishore Kumar FAQ!
> >
> > Some questions... anyone...
> >
> > What was Kishore's first film as actor?
>
> I thought the first film in which he made an appearance was ZIDDI(Dev Anand,
> Kamini). His was a small role of a maali(gardener) who would show up anywhere
> at any time:).
>
<STUFF DELETED>
ziddii was first as a singer,
as an actor, it was shikaarii.
Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(atic), period.
naniwadekar
<Ket...@att.net> wrote -
>
> Ok...so find me another Kishore Kumar in Indian cinema who was as
good(quality
> wise) as he was in all the departments I listed :
>
> singer/actor/producer/director/lyricist/composer/storywriter/xyz....
>
> The criteria is : One person as good as or better than Kishore in all
those
> ..... Any others?
>
Ravi Krishna doubts whether KK wrote lyrics. Did KK
ever give us any reasons to say it is an idle doubt?
Govindrao Tembe did many things. singer-actor-composer.
I have no idea how good an actor he was. He has
himself talked about his limitations as a singer.
He was a good writer as an ICM critic. He may even have
penned a cheez or two. He was already 50 when films
started featuring songs. Else, he could have contributed
more with the benefit of youth and energy. Even when he
did contribute to films, it was his secondary activity. His
main area of expertise was of course harmonium playing.
Pu La Deshpande also did many of the things you mention.
And he was v v good at all of them. He did write verse
occasionally, though I don't know whether any of it has
been set to music. I think he never produced any film.
But most of his film-related achievements came over a
very short period of time. He did not give interviews
to tell how much he wanted to leave the film industry.
He actually left it, following some bitter experiences.
Then he went on to blaze a trail elsewhere.
Flame bait - Tembe and Pu La were merely lending their
skills to film industry. They shone very brightly outside the
films, in their chief areas of interest. What would Kishore,
for all the multi-facetedness of his genius, have done if
it were not for the film industry?
- dn
shekhar
> Balaji wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Who is the song 'aankhon ko mila yaar se' picturized on? Isn't one of the
> >people Kishore?
> >
>
> Will have to dig out the video and watch it again as I don't remember much
> about this particular song's picturization. The song is in the voices of Rafi
> & S.D. Batish, according to the 'geetaa' by Dr. Hamraaz.
For this song S.D. Batish provided the voice for Kishore, and Rafi for Bhagwan.
Regards
Shekhar
> Happy listenings.
>
> Satish Kalra
Ket...@att.net
>Ravi Krishna doubts whether KK wrote lyrics. Did KK
>ever give us any reasons to say it is an idle doubt?
Yes..IIRC, the back of the "Door gagan ki chhaon main/Door Ka Rahi" CD will tell
you what songs Kishore wrote.
>Flame bait - Tembe and Pu La were merely lending their
>skills to film industry. They shone very brightly outside the
>films, in their chief areas of interest. What would Kishore,
>for all the multi-facetedness of his genius, have done if
>it were not for the film industry?
I would say--Kishore shone brightly in his chief area of interest. What would
Tembe and Pu La, for all the multi-facetedness of their genius, have done had
they not found a publisher or not found any takers in the literary world for
their work? Films are as much an artistic medium as a book. You can argue which
of the two--Akiro Kurosawa or Pu La influenced more people thru their work. I am
not sure if you can come to any conclusion on that issue though.
Ketan
Anant Rege
"naniwadekar" <nan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9lidh8$9fjhh$1...@ID-75735.news.dfncis.de...
>
> <Ket...@att.net> wrote -
>
> Flame bait - Tembe and Pu La were merely lending their
> skills to film industry. They shone very brightly outside
the
> films, in their chief areas of interest. What would
Kishore,
> for all the multi-facetedness of his genius, have done if
> it were not for the film industry?
>
wanted to go back to Khandwa and do farming.
> - dn
>
>
>
>
Radhika and Ramesh Hariharan
> or non-resident Bengali , if you will. He was not a poor Rabindra
> Sangeet singer or a poor Bengali singer as you state. He was one
> of the top Bengali Adhunik singers. May be a notch below Hemanta
Talking of KK's great Bengali songs .. the year was 1988, and I
travelling by train to Bangalore in a compartment with a bunch of
Bongs...It's a long time ago .. but this great song that they played
on their tape player haunts me till this day ... the song goes
something like ...
"Amar deep nibharo shaam .."
One the paragraphs starts "Jeevan hamar jaano banga ek shapano"
(apologies for murdering the language .. I only remember the tune)
Can any one tell me who composed thing song.. Incredibly beautiful
orchestration and singing!!
Best,
Ramesh
Shyamal Pain
Radhika and Ramesh Hariharan <rha...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d39bfd3a.01082...@posting.google.com...
> "Shyamal Pain" <spai...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:<RDne7.46513
> > or non-resident Bengali , if you will. He was not a poor Rabindra
> > Sangeet singer or a poor Bengali singer as you state. He was one
> > of the top Bengali Adhunik singers. May be a notch below Hemanta
>
> Talking of KK's great Bengali songs .. the year was 1988, and I
> travelling by train to Bangalore in a compartment with a bunch of
> Bongs...It's a long time ago .. but this great song that they played
> on their tape player haunts me till this day ... the song goes
> something like ...
> "Amar deep nibharo shaam .."
It goes : Amar Deep nibhano raat meaning
My night with the lamp turned off
> One the paragraphs starts "Jeevan hamar jaano banga ek shapano"
As if my life is a broken dream
I think the composer was Kishore himself.
Arindam
> orchestration and singing!!
>
> Best,
>
> Ramesh
Hi Ramesh,
The fact that you remember this song goes in to show what a great
piece of work that was - It was composed by Kishore himself. He sang
around 40 songs which would come under the category of Bengali modern
songs (which were actually Puja songs if you know what I mean by it)
and about 60% of them were self-composed When he first sang in 1968
during the Pujas, the songs were composed by RDB and then in the next
year they came back to do three more songs (of these six songs four
were later sung by Kishore in hindi movies as well - Tum Bin Jaaon
kaha - Pyar ka Mausam, Yeh Shaam Mastani - Kati Patang, Bam chiki
chiki - Kehte hain mujhko raja and Chala Jaata Hoon - Mere Jeevan
Sathi) - Then after a gap of 4 years he came back to sing for the
Pujas this time with self compositions - Thenceforth it was mostly
self composed songs that he sang for the pujas - except around 10-12
numbers which were composed by Lata Mangeshkar(2), Hemant Kumar, Amit
Kumar and Basu-Manohari.
To tell the truth I was bit taken aback to see that some people here
have so strong feelings about Kishore Kumar as to spew pointless venom
at him. Everyone is liable to have a personal feeling and liking - and
all comparisions between Rafi and KK and Mukesh and Talat are
pointless since all were great singers in their own right - But is it
possible to take away the fact that he was a versatile performer -
acting, composing, writing, singing, directing with equal panache ?
One might hurl countless accusation and vitriols but is it possible to
deny FACTS like - this person acted in over 80 movies (some of them
box-office hits) - Composed for Films like Jhumroo, Door Gagan ki
Chhaon Mein, Door ka Rahee which still appeals to lot of music lovers
- Sang over 2500 songs and is still the best selling artist in HMV
accounts - Directed a movie like Door Gagan ki Chhaon mein which won
international accolades ? Pls dont turn a blind eye to the facts folks
...
Sorry if I was boring while trying to get my message across.
Best Regards,
Arindam
Ritu
singer/lyrcist/composer/actor etc. etc. I have a small point to make.
Does being a jack of all trades suffice being a master of none ? It's
true that Kishore dabbled in various departments of cinema with a
certain degree of success(artistically and commercially). And we have
to grant that to him. But my question is, can his lyrics match up to
those of Sahir or Shailendra ? Can his music match up with Naushad or
SD Burman ? Can he match to Dilip Kumar and Dev Anand in terms of
acting and screen presence respectively ? However biased one would be
towards Kishore one would not be able to say yes to that one.
I agree Kishore had his moments of brilliance as singer.
Multi-facetted he was yes.. but a genius? No. He never was really in
the top-bracket in anything else but singing. As singer he was very
good at emotional songs but we would all have to agree that he was
limited in his expertise even in this arena. He could not sing a
'Madhuban mein Radhika nache' to save his life but he did a beautiful
job out of 'yeh jeevan hai'. So, I would think give him his due but do
not overrate him.
-Ritu
> >
> >
Ket...@att.net
rc0...@rediffmail.com says...
>to grant that to him. But my question is, can his lyrics match up to
>those of Sahir or Shailendra ? Can his music match up with Naushad or
No..because at times his music is better than anything Naushad has done or can
do and I am talking about his output in Hindi and Bengali songs.
>SD Burman ? Can he match to Dilip Kumar and Dev Anand in terms of
Can DilipK or Dev Anand match upto Kishore Kumar in acting? I can't even begin
to imagine either of them doing a comedy routine of the "Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi"
type.
>acting and screen presence respectively ? However biased one would be
>towards Kishore one would not be able to say yes to that one.
It depends on where your biases lie and what you perceive as quality music,
acting, singing, and lyrics.
>limited in his expertise even in this arena. He could not sing a
>'Madhuban mein Radhika nache' to save his life but he did a beautiful
What part of the above song could he not sing? The brief classical portion there
is in the song, well, according to Naushad, if Rafi had sung it, he would be
taking the song's life and the life of everyone who heard Rafi. Which is why
Naushad wisely had a classical vocalist come in and sing it.
Ketan
naniwadekar
<Ket...@att.net> wrote -
>
>
> >to grant that to him. But my question is, can his lyrics match up to
> >those of Sahir or Shailendra ? Can his music match up with Naushad or
>
> No..because at times his music is better than anything Naushad has done or
can
> do and I am talking about his output in Hindi and Bengali songs.
>
SDB has done or could do, by transitivity, KK's music
(at times) is better than anything SDB has done or
could do.
Maybe you should change your sig. to Burman Jr
and KK fan. The following bracket would be
superfluous. Naushad was a far, far better composer
than you are giving him credit for.
- dn
surjit singh
> In article <8777cccd.01082...@posting.google.com>,
> rc0...@rediffmail.com says...
>
> >to grant that to him. But my question is, can his lyrics match up to
> >those of Sahir or Shailendra ? Can his music match up with Naushad or
>
> No..because at times his music is better than anything Naushad has done or can
> do and I am talking about his output in Hindi and Bengali songs.
>
> >SD Burman ? Can he match to Dilip Kumar and Dev Anand in terms of
>
> Can DilipK or Dev Anand match upto Kishore Kumar in acting? I can't even begin
> to imagine either of them doing a comedy routine of the "Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi"
> type.
>
Well, Dev is not really an actor, just a good-looking, good
natured-fellow, who just has fun doing movies (and people have fun
watching him). Dilip, however, can match or surpass any comedy Kishor
has done (and he has done a super job many times, e. g. Padosan, and a
lousy job other times, e. g. Bombay Ka Chor). Just watch Dilip in
Kohinoor or Leader.
Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(aic), period.
<stuff deleted)>
>
> Ketan
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
> No..because at times his music is better than anything Naushad has done or can
> do and I am talking about his output in Hindi and Bengali songs.
Not a chance when you put it this way, using "anything Naushad has
done or can do".
> >SD Burman ? Can he match to Dilip Kumar and Dev Anand in terms of
>
> Can DilipK or Dev Anand match upto Kishore Kumar in acting? I can't even begin
> to imagine either of them doing a comedy routine of the "Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi"
> type.
I agree with this part, about the comedy side. In general I'm not sure
where I stand on Dev as an actor...he sure did get good songs though,
at least early on.
(on Madhuban Men Radhika)
> What part of the above song could he not sing? The brief classical portion there
> is in the song, well, according to Naushad, if Rafi had sung it, he would be
> taking the song's life and the life of everyone who heard Rafi. Which is why
> Naushad wisely had a classical vocalist come in and sing it.
All wisecracks aside, Rafi could not have sung the taans by Ustad Niaz
Ahmed Khan (located after "Mirdang Baaje"). Neither could Kishore.
However, while I do think Rafi did well in the song, I do believe
Kishore would also have been able to handle it well based on the way
it's composed. Not sure about the sargam part - I say that only
because they dubbed in that sargam thingy in "Pag Ghungroo Bandh"
years later.
Sanjeev
Ritu
> rc0...@rediffmail.com says...
>
> >to grant that to him. But my question is, can his lyrics match up to
> >those of Sahir or Shailendra ? Can his music match up with Naushad or
>
> No..because at times his music is better than anything Naushad has done or can
> do and I am talking about his output in Hindi and Bengali songs.
I disagree Kishore was at best a niche music director. I am more of an
SDB than Naushad fan but I still would think Naushad and Kishore Kumar
as MD's are not comparable. Kishore's range was very limited.
>
> >SD Burman ? Can he match to Dilip Kumar and Dev Anand in terms of
>
> Can DilipK or Dev Anand match upto Kishore Kumar in acting? I can't even begin
> to imagine either of them doing a comedy routine of the "Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi"
> type.
Acting is not just about buffonary.. and if you talk about that Dilip
Kumar did a great job in Ganga Jamuna and Dev Anand in Funtoosh and
apart from that they did a great job in lots of other films in various
other roles. Kishore again in acting had a niche.. comedy and even
there he had serious competition from Mehmood and Johny walker. It
would be ridiculous to rate Kishore Kumar on the same scale as great
actors like Dilip Kumar or Sanjeev Kumar.
>
> >acting and screen presence respectively ? However biased one would be
> >towards Kishore one would not be able to say yes to that one.
>
> It depends on where your biases lie and what you perceive as quality music,
> acting, singing, and lyrics.
I agree on that one completely.. music preference is a matter of
tuning. I'm sure you have a lot of people out there you think Daler
Mehndi is a master and SDB, Naushad, KK are all trash. Can't dispute
them.. it's their choice !
>
> >limited in his expertise even in this arena. He could not sing a
> >'Madhuban mein Radhika nache' to save his life but he did a beautiful
>
> What part of the above song could he not sing? The brief classical portion there
> is in the song, well, according to Naushad, if Rafi had sung it, he would be
> taking the song's life and the life of everyone who heard Rafi. Which is why
> Naushad wisely had a classical vocalist come in and sing it.
Apart from the short classical portion the rest of Madhuban mein
Radhika naache is also predominantly classical. It's a known fact
Kishore was never an option for classical based songs because he could
not do them. It was either Rafi or Manna Dey. Rafi's range was
definitly way ahead of Kishore.
Ritu
>
>
>
> Ketan
Arun Sampath
"Ritu" <rc0...@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
> > >To follow up on your point about Kishore being a great
> singer/lyrcist/composer/actor etc. etc. I have a small point to make.
> Does being a jack of all trades suffice being a master of none ? It's
> true that Kishore dabbled in various departments of cinema with a
> certain degree of success(artistically and commercially). And we have
> to grant that to him. But my question is, can his lyrics match up to
> those of Sahir or Shailendra ? Can his music match up with Naushad or
> SD Burman ? Can he match to Dilip Kumar and Dev Anand in terms of
> acting and screen presence respectively ? However biased one would be
> towards Kishore one would not be able to say yes to that one.
I wouldn't call Kishore jack of all trades neither would I call him a
genius. There have been many talented people in HFM who haven't had the
opportunity to fully explore their talent due to limited exposure. To give
some examples, Rajkumari didn't have a significant singing output in her
career. But with whatever she has given us, she has been great. IMO she
would have turned out to be one of the *great* Indian singers if she had had
more opportunities to sing. Similarly, Lata could have made a name for
herself as an MD if she had continued to do it more in her career. OTOH, we
know that CR besides being one of the *greatest* MDs HFM has ever known,
also sang a few songs in his career. But he was a *bad* singer and it
wouldn't have mattered if he had sung a thousand more songs instead of just
a handful that he did.
Applying a similar logic to Kishore, as a singer he was *good* and he was
also quite prolific in that department. As an actor-comedian he was
definitely amongst the *best* in movies like padosan. As an MD and lyricist
he showed promise with some of his output like Jhumroo and Door gagan ki
chhaon mein. For whatever reason, he didn't do enough of it to continue on
the same track. IMO, the versatility of Kishore was not fully exploited in
his career.
A
Anant Rege
"Arun Sampath" <as...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9m3huq$1...@nntpb.cb.lucent.com...
>
> I wouldn't call Kishore jack of all trades
>
<Followed by>
> Applying a similar logic to Kishore, as a singer he was
*good* and he was
> also quite prolific in that department. As an
actor-comedian he was
> definitely amongst the *best* in movies like padosan. As
an MD and lyricist
> he showed promise with some of his output like Jhumroo and
Door gagan ki
> chhaon mein. For whatever reason, he didn't do enough of
it to continue on
> the same track. IMO, the versatility of Kishore was not
fully exploited in
> his career.
>
That's exactly meaning of jack of all trades.
Anant
[Don't know about acting, but Kishore was better singer than
Dilip Kumar and better director than Dev Anand. That does
not mean much of course.]
> A
>
>
Ket...@att.net
>I disagree Kishore was at best a niche music director. I am more of an
>SDB than Naushad fan but I still would think Naushad and Kishore Kumar
>as MD's are not comparable. Kishore's range was very limited.
Ack! You are saying NAUSHAD had more RANGE than Kishore? Gawd!
>Acting is not just about buffonary.. and if you talk about that Dilip
>Kumar did a great job in Ganga Jamuna and Dev Anand in Funtoosh and
>apart from that they did a great job in lots of other films in various
>other roles. Kishore again in acting had a niche.. comedy and even
>there he had serious competition from Mehmood and Johny walker. It
>would be ridiculous to rate Kishore Kumar on the same scale as great
>actors like Dilip Kumar or Sanjeev Kumar.
Have you seen "Bandi"? Won't say anything more for now.
>> >acting and screen presence respectively ? However biased one would be
>> >towards Kishore one would not be able to say yes to that one.
One = you?
>Apart from the short classical portion the rest of Madhuban mein
>Radhika naache is also predominantly classical. It's a known fact
>Kishore was never an option for classical based songs because he could
>not do them. It was either Rafi or Manna Dey. Rafi's range was
>definitly way ahead of Kishore.
As has been discussed before on RMIM(see the archives), "Madhuban me radhika
naache re" is about as much classical as is "Payal waali dekhna" or "Mere naina
sawan bhadon". See Sanjeev's answer in another post on this issue.
Ketan
Vijay
"Sanjeev Ramabhadran" <sanj...@aol.com> wrote in message
> All wisecracks aside, Rafi could not have sung the taans by Ustad Niaz
> Ahmed Khan (located after "Mirdang Baaje"). Neither could Kishore.
If you are refering to the Mukri part in the movie (which I think you are),
wasn't that sung by Pt. DV Paluskar?
Vijay Kumar
Chetan Vinchhi
Vijay wrote...
>
>> All wisecracks aside, Rafi could not have sung the taans by Ustad Niaz
>> Ahmed Khan (located after "Mirdang Baaje"). Neither could Kishore.
>
>If you are refering to the Mukri part in the movie (which I think you are),
>wasn't that sung by Pt. DV Paluskar?
No, Sanjeev is right (and yes, the Mukri part).
C
Arun Sampath
"Anant Rege" <ar...@crgroup.com> wrote in message
> That's exactly meaning of jack of all trades.
>
> Anant
Jack of all trades is when you are just "mediocre" with all things you do
but not "good" at anything. IMO, Kishore was good at singing and acting
(comic roles) showed good potential (but didn't/couldn't give much in terms
of actual output) in both music direction and writing lyrics. Not having the
opportunity to do more in these fields is not the same thing as being
mediocre in them.
A
Shyamal Pain
>
> "Anant Rege" <ar...@crgroup.com> wrote in message
>
> > That's exactly meaning of jack of all trades.
> >
> > Anant
>
>
> Jack of all trades is when you are just "mediocre" with all things you do
> but not "good" at anything. IMO, Kishore was good at singing and acting
> (comic roles) showed good potential (but didn't/couldn't give much in
terms
> of actual output) in both music direction and writing lyrics. Not having
the
Anyone who has heard Kishore's composition of Bengali songs sung by him
( and 2 by Lata) will have to agree about his talent in that field. Again,
in
Bengali songs also his output was limited. He was a talented singer and
composer. His talent in acting is open to dispute. I think it is fair to say
he
was an OK actor.
surjit singh
> In article <9le39c$8m3a8$1...@ID-75254.news.dfncis.de>, "Ravi says...
> >
<Stuff Deleted>
> However the question remains : If you say KK's talent is overrated, do come up
> with someone who was as successful as a
> --singer/actor/producer/director/lyricist/composer/storywriter/whatever else--
> in the annals of Indian cinema.
In the Limca Book of Records (2000), the entry on the Most Versatile
Film Artiste reads in part,
"
T. Rajendra (b. Oct. 3 1956) of Tamil Cinema ... producer, director,
hero, ... writes the story, dialogues, lyrics, ... composes, conducts,
directs music, ... sings playback, ... director of photography and
stills, ... write copy, advertises and distributes his films. Though
knowledgeable in art, editing, dance, stunt, make-up and costumes, he
is unable to handle them owing to constraints of time!
"
Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(atic), period.
>
>
> Ketan
Ravi Krishna
RK-
"surjit singh" <surjit...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37eb6192.01082...@posting.google.com...
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
>
> As has been discussed before on RMIM(see the archives), "Madhuban me radhika
> naache re" is about as much classical as is "Payal waali dekhna" or "Mere naina
> sawan bhadon". See Sanjeev's answer in another post on this issue.
And now Ketan is quoting *me*?! :-)
I didn't mean to say that "Madhuban Men" is only as classical as
"Paayal Waali" or "Mere Naina", I believe it has some more than that.
Come to think of it, there's a little tidbit in the second alaap after
"Dolat Chham-Chham Kaamini" that Rafi has taken beautifully, don't
know if KK would have pulled that one off. However, I do believe KK is
all too frequently (unfairly) dismissed for inability to sing filmy
semi-classical songs. The fact is, we just have very little (if any)
data.
Sanjeev
yeskay
>
> HA HA HA.
>
> RK-
What's so funny!
Ket...@att.net
says...
>
>Ket...@att.net wrote in message news:<9m3m6...@drn.newsguy.com>...
>>
>> As has been discussed before on RMIM(see the archives), "Madhuban me radhika
>>naache re" is about as much classical as is "Payal waali dekhna" or "Mere naina
>> sawan bhadon". See Sanjeev's answer in another post on this issue.
>
>And now Ketan is quoting *me*?! :-)
Sorry. I stand corrected. Thanks for the correction.
>I didn't mean to say that "Madhuban Men" is only as classical as
>"Paayal Waali" or "Mere Naina", I believe it has some more than that.
>Come to think of it, there's a little tidbit in the second alaap after
>"Dolat Chham-Chham Kaamini" that Rafi has taken beautifully, don't
>know if KK would have pulled that one off. However, I do believe KK is
>all too frequently (unfairly) dismissed for inability to sing filmy
>semi-classical songs. The fact is, we just have very little (if any)
>data.
What has been interesting in this debate over the last 8 years that I have been
reading RMIM is that it has always been KK vs Rafi. No one ever seems to bring
up similar data on Mukesh's/Talat's/HemantK's ability to sing classical, Lata's
ability to sing sexy/sultry songs etc.
In article <8777cccd.01082...@posting.google.com>,
rc0...@rediffmail.com says...
>> In article <8777cccd.01082...@posting.google.com>,
>> rc0...@rediffmail.com , Ritu says...
>I disagree Kishore was at best a niche music director. I am more of an
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Can you explain what you mean by this sentence? Why are Naushad/SDB not niche
music directors given that they rely mainly on classical/folk tunes
respectively?
>other roles. Kishore again in acting had a niche.. comedy and even
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The 'N' word again. Ok, explain this too. Why is DilipK not a niche actor for
doing mainly tragedy roles during the height of his career? Because he did one
Ganga-Jamuna or Azad? I could point to Kishore doing "Door Gagan...." or "Door
Ka Rahi".
>Ritu
Ketan
Ket...@att.net
surjit...@yahoo.com says...
Yes I know about him. However given what I have heard about him from my South
Indian friends, he was not as successful as Kishore was according to THEM. Which
is why I did not include him in my list. Maybe someone else can give some idea
on how good he really was.
Ketan
Ravi Krishna
<Ket...@att.net> wrote in message news:9m5oi...@drn.newsguy.com...
> Yes I know about him. However given what I have heard about him from my
South
> Indian friends, he was not as successful as Kishore was according to THEM.
Which
> is why I did not include him in my list. Maybe someone else can give some
idea
> on how good he really was.
T Rajendran was pathetic in quality, but was very successful for
a brief period of time (early 1980s). His movies were hits
and he was not a one film wonder too.
So!!! All boils down to the fact that quality has no relation
to success, be it TR or KK (except singing).
RK-
Ket...@att.net
>T Rajendran was pathetic in quality, but was very successful for
>a brief period of time (early 1980s). His movies were hits
>and he was not a one film wonder too.
>
>So!!! All boils down to the fact that quality has no relation
>to success, be it TR or KK (except singing).
I see. So therefore Sir Garfield Sobers--who could bat, bowl and field--is in
the same league as say Ajit Agarkar right--whose all rounder capabilities are
always being touted high and low.
Ketan
Ravi Krishna
<Ket...@att.net> wrote in message news:9m5s8...@drn.newsguy.com...
> I see. So therefore Sir Garfield Sobers--who could bat, bowl and field--is
in
> the same league as say Ajit Agarkar right--whose all rounder capabilities
are
> always being touted high and low.
very conveniently you have equated KK with Sir GS.
Make it Mudassar Nazar. Yeah, that one is a fair comparison :-)
RK-
PS: TR with Ajit Agarkar. Yeah that one is fair too, except
one difference. Unlike Hagkar, TR was successful.
Ket...@att.net
>RK-
>PS: TR with Ajit Agarkar. Yeah that one is fair too, except
>one difference. Unlike Hagkar, TR was successful.
Sure and Agarkar has a century and 4 50s to his credit too.
Ketan
Sreenivas Paruchuri
> >>However the question remains : If you say KK's talent is overrated, do come up
> >> with someone who was as successful as a
> >>--singer/actor/producer/director/lyricist/composer/storywriter/whatever else--
> >> in the annals of Indian cinema.
How about the legendary Chittur (VuppaladaDiyam) Nagaiah from the south?
Well, to my knowledge he didn't do the 'story' but only Screenplay. And
he was more successful than KK during his heydays; i.e 1938-1950. He was
a singer of the highest repute, best paid hero in Telugu and Tamil in
early 40s, successful producer of #bhaagyalakshmi# (1943), #tyaagayya#
(1946), #naayillu# (1953), #bhakta raamadaasu# (1964, released after ca.
10 year production time), ..... director of two of the above mentioned
films, was the composer for some of all-time great musical hits in
Telugu; esp. from Vaahini studios (vandEmaataram-1939, dEvata-1941,
sumangaLi-1940, bhaktapOtana-1942, ......) .... the list goes on!
But, let me also add that I am one of the great fans of KK, esp. his
multifaceted genius. The above note is just a brief comment on other
such talented personalities.
Regards,
Sreenivas
Shyamal Pain
> >And now Ketan is quoting *me*?! :-)
>
> Sorry. I stand corrected. Thanks for the correction.
>
> >I didn't mean to say that "Madhuban Men" is only as classical as
> >"Paayal Waali" or "Mere Naina", I believe it has some more than that.
> >Come to think of it, there's a little tidbit in the second alaap after
> >"Dolat Chham-Chham Kaamini" that Rafi has taken beautifully, don't
> >know if KK would have pulled that one off. However, I do believe KK is
> >all too frequently (unfairly) dismissed for inability to sing filmy
> >semi-classical songs. The fact is, we just have very little (if any)
> >data.
>
> What has been interesting in this debate over the last 8 years that I have
been
> reading RMIM is that it has always been KK vs Rafi. No one ever seems to
bring
> up similar data on Mukesh's/Talat's/HemantK's ability to sing classical,
Lata's
> ability to sing sexy/sultry songs etc.
Hemanta Mukherjee ( Hemant Kumar) also did not have any background
in classical music. So, he , like KK avoided singing classical-oriented
songs.
Some high-brow Bengalis have a disparaging attitude towards Hemanta
because of that. He never tried to sing classical-based tagore songs. Some
people think that classical-based songs are superior to lighter songs. In
fact , Tagore composed classical-based devotional songs when he was
young. As he matured, he experimented with baul, Kirtan , western music,
folk and created songs that were easier to sing and were original in their
tune and lyric.
Vijay Kumar K
> Ket...@att.net wrote in message news:<9leg9...@drn.newsguy.com>...
> > In article <9le39c$8m3a8$1...@ID-75254.news.dfncis.de>, "Ravi says...
> > >
>
> <Stuff Deleted>
>
> > However the question remains : If you say KK's talent is overrated, do come up
> > with someone who was as successful as a
> > --singer/actor/producer/director/lyricist/composer/storywriter/whatever
> In the Limca Book of Records (2000), the entry on the Most Versatile
> Film Artiste reads in part,
>
> "
> T. Rajendra (b. Oct. 3 1956) of Tamil Cinema ... producer, director,
> hero, ... writes the story, dialogues, lyrics, ... composes, conducts,
> directs music, ... sings playback, ... director of photography and
> stills, ... write copy, advertises and distributes his films. Though
> knowledgeable in art, editing, dance, stunt, make-up and costumes, he
> is unable to handle them owing to constraints of time!
> "
>
http://www.rediff.com/entertai/1999/jun/05bhan.htm
As for quality, I can vouch for her excellent singing. I haven't seen enough of
Telugu cinema to say what kind of quality she boasted in other departments of
film making.
Vijay
Balaji A.S. Murthy
And wasn't Bhanumathi quite versatile too, she sang (wonderfully, and in
several languages including Hindi), composed (was among the best), directed
(Chandirani etc), acted (in multiple languages too). I remember you (Sreenivas)
mentioning that she dabbled in other departments as well.
- Balaji