SHAKEEL BADAYUNI: Melody.txt
Chetan Vinchhi
>
>(These lines serve as a perfect preamble for that classic Anarkali dialogue
>when Prince (apna Kohli ?? Naah! :-) ) Salim rewards Bahaar with a rose and
>says that Anarkali ke quismat me kaanTa (thorn) aaya hai. While accepting the
>reward, Anarkali says, "Phool to murjhha jaate hain, lekin kaanTe daaman thham
>lete hain" !! WOW!)
>
As far as I can remember, when given the thorns Anarkali accepts them
gracefully with a "zahe naseeb" and then says "kaNtoN ko murjhane ka
khauF nahiN hota..." I don't recall the above dialogue you mentioned, Sami.
Can somebody corroborate/refute this ?
Cheers !
Chetan
Sivakumar Ravada
-->In article <3u0246$s...@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu>, sm...@Lehigh.EDU (SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED) wrote:
-->>
-->>(These lines serve as a perfect preamble for that classic Anarkali dialogue
-->>when Prince (apna Kohli ?? Naah! :-) ) Salim rewards Bahaar with a rose and
-->>says that Anarkali ke quismat me kaanTa (thorn) aaya hai. While accepting the
-->>reward, Anarkali says, "Phool to murjhha jaate hain, lekin kaanTe daaman thham
-->>lete hain" !! WOW!)
-->>
-->
--> As far as I can remember, when given the thorns Anarkali accepts them
--> gracefully with a "zahe naseeb" and then says "kaNtoN ko murjhane ka
--> khauF nahiN hota..." I don't recall the above dialogue you mentioned, Sami.
--> Can somebody corroborate/refute this ?
Exactly! Chetan is correct. The dialogue of Anarkali IS "zahe naseeb ..."
I have the audio cassette of Mughal-E-Azam with dialogues and used to
listen to it quite often. I think it has good dialogues for most family
situations:
mom-dad
mom-son
dad-son
girlfriend-dad
girlfriend-son (of course)
son-friend
dad-friend_of_son
Superb dialogues for all the above situations.
-- PD
Ashok
>
> **** SHAKEEL BADAYUNI: Melody.txt [I] ****
>
> The third song is IMHO the most melodious in the movie, but seldom found on
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> audio (and sometimes even video) cassettes :-( This is sung by Anarkali's
> sister. It is a wonderful combination of music, lyrics and a beautiful
> rendition by Lata. The humming esp. is breathtaking. It's a beautiful GHazal:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Ai ishq ye sab duniyawaale bekaar ke baaten karte hain
> Paayal ke GHamon ka ilm nahin, jhankaar ki baaten karte hain
==> This song was not there when the film was first released. The scene got
grafted and the song released a couple of years later. The song did make its
way into Binaca Geetmala and reached the middle. There seem to be lot of
prints of the film going around that miss this particular 'revision.'
{Changed your mind, Sami? Last time when I said that humming is the highlight
of the song, you were up in arms! :))
> Bekas pe karam kijie Sarkar-e-Madina
> Gardish me hai taqdir, bhanwar me hai safina (safina = boat)
>
> The final song plays in the background while Anarkali drugs Salim. This is the
> BEST song in the movie from the lyrics point of view. Shakeel has outdone
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> himself in this beautiful song. Salim is unconscious while Anarkali knows that
> she is going to die the next day. A really touching song in which she bids
> adieu one final time:
>
> KHuda nigehbaan ho tumhaara, dhaRakte dil ka payaam lelo
> Tumhaari duniya se jaa rahe hain, uTHo humara salaam lelo
>
> So much emotion expressed so beautifully in just 2 lines!!
>
> Hai waqt-e-ruqsat gale lagalo, quataaen bhi aaj baqsh Daalo
> BichhaRnewaale ka dil na toRo, zara mohabbat se kaam lelo
>
> And finally, my favourite lines from this movie:
>
> UTHe janaaza jo kal humaara, qasam hai tumko na dena kaandha
> Na ho mohabbat humari ruswa, ye aansuon ka payaam lelo !!
>
==> Two comments. First, in terms of lyrics, the song has a flaw. Shakeel got
himself into a bind where he had to use 'payaam' twice.
Second, for some reason, the film version of this song sounds quite different,
much better, in fact. I don't know whether it was recorded separately. It
has a very faint echo effect, which works very well, making it the most
melodious song of the film. In contrast, the LP/cassette version sounds
flat, like stale beer or tofu! Interestingly, the film version seems to have
only the second stanza, while it does have a prelude (lines before the
mukhDa. As the dawn begins to break out, Lata's voice floats up:
vo aai subaha ke parade se maut ki aawaaz
kisi ne toD diyaa jaise zindagi ka saaz
It's too bad Asif lacked the sense or taste or courage to end the film
with this song.
Ashok
Ajay P Nerurkar
: >
: > Ai ishq ye sab duniyawaale bekaar ke baaten karte hain
: > Paayal ke GHamon ka ilm nahin, jhankaar ki baaten karte hain
: ==> This song was not there when the film was first released. The scene got
: grafted and the song released a couple of years later. The song did make its
And what about the song "Humen kaash tumse mohabbat na hoti" ? I haven't
come across a recording of this one either.
: It's too bad Asif lacked the sense or taste or courage to end the film
: with this song.
Indeed. The bit of the movie after this song seems to have been added as
an afterthought.
--
Ajay
Ashok
>
> In article <3u4bkl$d...@minerva.worldbank.org>, Ashok <ADhar...@WorldBank.org>
writes:
>
> >> BEST song in the movie from the lyrics point of view. Shakeel has outdone
> >> KHuda nigehbaan ho tumhaara, dhaRakte dil ka payaam lelo
> >> Tumhaari duniya se jaa rahe hain, uTHo humara salaam lelo
> >>
> I agree with this one. But still the lyrics are great!
>
> >Second, for some reason, the film version of this song sounds quite different,
> >much better, in fact. I don't know whether it was recorded separately. It
> >has a very faint echo effect, which works very well, making it the most
> >melodious song of the film. In contrast, the LP/cassette version sounds
> >flat, like stale beer or tofu!
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> By equating this song with stale beer and tofu, you make them both seem great!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> I haven't tried either yet, but I sure am tempted now ! :-)
>
Sami,
Let me try once more to explain what I mean before you go on a tofu-and-stale
beer binge! :) I am not making the 'equation'
'tape version of khuda nigehnaan' = stale beer or tofu
I don't know what such an equation would connote! If you force me to use
analytical lingo, what I am using is a 'proportion' (that's the slightly
misleading name for equality of two fractions, e.g. 1/2 = 3/6, often written
as 1:2::3:6, meaning 1 is to 2 as 2 is to 6). So, my statement is:
'tape version' : 'film version' :: stale beer : fresh beer
or
'tape version' : 'film version' :: tofu : paneer
or
'tape version' : 'film version' :: TV dinner : homecooked meal!
There is no absolute magnitude implied, so Sami, for heaven's sake, you don't have
to have a TV dinner of tofu with stale beer to prove your loyalty! Just sit down
with proper palak-paneer and a freshly opened bottle of Golden Eagle and listen
to the two versions back to back! :)))
Ashok
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED
>> The third song is IMHO the most melodious in the movie, but seldom found on
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> audio (and sometimes even video) cassettes :-( This is sung by Anarkali's
>> sister. It is a wonderful combination of music, lyrics and a beautiful
>> rendition by Lata. The humming esp. is breathtaking. It's a beautiful GHazal:
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> Paayal ke GHamon ka ilm nahin, jhankaar ki baaten karte hain
>
>of the song, you were up in arms! :))
Either I changed my mind our you changed your words. I was "up in arms" because
you said that the humming was the *only* highlight of the song! Of course, I
knew that that was a flame bait. But then so was my reply:
"Paayal ke GHamon ka ilm nahin, jhankar ki baaten karte hain" :-)
Moreover, maybe the humming sounded great due to "voltage fluctuations", what
say ?? :-)
>> BEST song in the movie from the lyrics point of view. Shakeel has outdone
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> KHuda nigehbaan ho tumhaara, dhaRakte dil ka payaam lelo
>> Tumhaari duniya se jaa rahe hain, uTHo humara salaam lelo
>>
>> So much emotion expressed so beautifully in just 2 lines!!
>==> Two comments. First, in terms of lyrics, the song has a flaw. Shakeel got
>himself into a bind where he had to use 'payaam' twice.
I agree with this one. But still the lyrics are great!
>Second, for some reason, the film version of this song sounds quite different,
>much better, in fact. I don't know whether it was recorded separately. It
>has a very faint echo effect, which works very well, making it the most
>melodious song of the film. In contrast, the LP/cassette version sounds
>flat, like stale beer or tofu! Interestingly, the film version seems to have
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
By equating this song with stale beer and tofu, you make them both seem great!
I haven't tried either yet, but I sure am tempted now ! :-)
>It's too bad Asif lacked the sense or taste or courage to end the film
>with this song.
I personally don't care how the movie ended. Apne ko to bas music se kaam hai!
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
>Ashok
********************************************************************************
Lines for the day:
Udhar to sulaghta hua hai ek veeraana
Magar idhar to bahaaron me baaGH jalte hain
Rajender Krishan in "Woh chup rahe to mere dil ke daaGH jalte hain....."
********************************************************************************
ShashiKant Joshi
[snip discussion about Mughal-E-Azam's last song]
: only the second stanza, while it does have a prelude (lines before the
: mukhDa. As the dawn begins to break out, Lata's voice floats up:
: vo aai subaha ke parade se maut ki aawaaz
: kisi ne toD diyaa jaise zindagi ka saaz
: It's too bad Asif lacked the sense or taste or courage to end the film
: with this song.
He had to show that Anarkali is released by Akbar. Maybe that COULD sound like
Akbar (after all he is considered VERY wise, generous and sensitive, even
though raaj ki ijjat is foremost) bu in Pakeezah Kamal Amrohi did the similar
thing.
I really got pissed off at the end of Pakeezah, even
though personally, Meena Kumari creates in me images that I WANT to see her
have a good end in the movie. But Pakeezah was rejected based on being a
tawaayaf's beTi in the middle of the movie by Raj Kumar's chacha/abba.
In the end when it is known that Meena is Ashok Kumar's daughter thru the
tawaayaf, Ashok K gets bullet from his elder bro while saving Meena. Then at
that time she is asked again, whether she will accept Raj Kumar. I thin she
should have said no, for the story to become VERY powerful. Both because
tragedy haunts longer than a comedy and because Meena (who refused to marry
rajK at the LAST moment because she can never hide her reality) should have
seen that SHE didn't change,just got a big family name attached to her. And
all these people start looking at her nicely now!!!
-- ShashiKant Joshi urf Pintu Diwana
U.V Ravindra
usas...@s027110.mmm.com (ShashiKant Joshi) writes:
> : vo aai subaha ke parade se maut ki aawaaz
> : kisi ne toD diyaa jaise zindagi ka saaz
>
> : It's too bad Asif lacked the sense or taste or courage to end the film
> : with this song.
>
> He had to show that Anarkali is released by Akbar. Maybe that COULD
> sound like Akbar (after all he is considered VERY wise, generous and
> sensitive, even though raaj ki ijjat is foremost)
Indeed! I think not only Akbar's commonly accepted profile as a
generous Sultan, but also Asif's fear of public rejection made him
choose this ending. As everyone knows, a lot of money was put in the
making of this film and a lot of time too. Public rejection would
mean that Asif would lose every single pie he ever had to his name!
IMO, fear of scorn is one of the main reasons for mediocre output.
> bu in Pakeezah Kamal Amrohi did the similar thing.
>
> I really got pissed off at the end of Pakeezah, even
> though personally, Meena Kumari creates in me images that I WANT to see her
> have a good end in the movie. But Pakeezah was rejected based on being a
> tawaayaf's beTi in the middle of the movie by Raj Kumar's chacha/abba.
> In the end when it is known that Meena is Ashok Kumar's daughter thru the
> tawaayaf, Ashok K gets bullet from his elder bro while saving Meena. Then at
> that time she is asked again, whether she will accept Raj Kumar. I thin she
> should have said no, for the story to become VERY powerful. Both because
> tragedy haunts longer than a comedy and because Meena (who refused to marry
> rajK at the LAST moment because she can never hide her reality) should have
> seen that SHE didn't change,just got a big family name attached to her. And
> all these people start looking at her nicely now!!!
True. Kamal Amrohi didn't have any reason to have such an ending in
Paakeezah. All through the movie, the over-riding emotion is one of
tragedy and with one fell swoop, this ending succeeds in diluting what
could have been one of the bravest and best endings any
Hindi/Hindustani film ever had.
But again, as I said, fear of scorn/ridicule is one of the causes for
mediocrity!
> -- ShashiKant Joshi urf Pintu Diwana
BTW, Shashi, does "usas...@s027110.mmm.com (ShashiKant Joshi)" mean
that you're no longer going to use the "Sivakumar Ravada" pseudonym?
Ravindra urf Faazil Fazal.
U.V Ravindra
iak...@tamu.edu (Ikram Ahmed Khan) writes:
-> U.V Ravindra (uvr@tata_elxsi.soft.net) wrote:
-> : usas...@s027110.mmm.com (ShashiKant Joshi) writes:
->
-> : Indeed! I think not only Akbar's commonly accepted profile as a
-> : generous Sultan, but also Asif's fear of public rejection made him
-> : choose [a happy] ending. As everyone knows, a lot of money was put
-> : in the making of this film and a lot of time too. Public rejection
-> : would mean that Asif would lose every single pie he ever had to
-> : his name
>
-> : IMO, fear of scorn is one of the main reasons for mediocre output.
->
-> Bhai log,
-> Since we are in a Mughal-e-azam bashing mood (the movie not the emperor :) )
-> thought I should play a spoilsport and remind you of one of the best lines
-> that Akbar has in the movie --delivered oh-so-powerfully by the Great
-> Prithviraaj Kapoor
-> BaKHuda, hum mohabbat ke dushman naheeN,
-> usooloN ke GHulaam haiN
-> or pretty similar sounding stuff...
-> Me saw (well I'll amend that --- I used to make an entry for the songs and
-> then vanish) Anarkali and felt that other guy who played Akbar to be such a
-> wimp.... plus tho'Beena is pretty goodlooking ... apnee Madhubala kee baat
-> kahaaN :) :)
Ikram-bhai:
You've missed the point entirely -- we're not in a Mughal-E-Azam
bashing mood at all -- we are in a K. Asif bashing mood. What? I am
splitting hairs, you say? Well, who was the one who defended
Prithviraj Kapoor and Madhubala over Wimp-Akbar and Bina Rai (I
believe that's how she used to spell her name)? arey, is point pe to
koi discussion ho hi nahiN saktaa. Prithviraj Kapoor made a great
Akbar and Madhubala was Anarkali reincarnate ... but what the heck,
the ending of Mughal-E-Azam was still the pits! Just goes to show
that even with *GREAT* actors, a small wrong decision on the
Director's part can ruin a great movie ...
-> Plus me felt that the whole sequence of Anarkali being saved was done very
-> nicely... Beginning with how Anarkali's mother comes to Akbar with the ring
-> and how the ring falls into the scales and the rest of the stuff... pretty
-> good theatrical stuff I call it.....
Yeah! Acting ko 100% marks mileNge. But story/direction ko "a big
zero!"
-> Btw, one other lasting impressionof that movie and Anarkali's mother in that
-> movie is her crying out "Nadira... meri bachchhi..." quite a few times :)
->
Frankly, it *was* a moving scene. But,
a) it didn't belong in that movie,
b) it wasn't historically true anyway!
Pintu Diwana wrote:
->:> bu in Pakeezah Kamal Amrohi did the similar thing.
[*snip*]
->:> tragedy haunts longer than a comedy and because Meena (who
->:> refused to marry
->:> rajK at the LAST moment because she can never hide her reality)
->:> should have
->:> seen that SHE didn't change,just got a big family name attached
->:> to her. And
->:> all these people start looking at her nicely now!!!
->
->: True. Kamal Amrohi didn't have any reason to have such an ending in
->: Paakeezah. All through the movie, the over-riding emotion is one of
->: tragedy and with one fell swoop, this ending succeeds in diluting what
->: could have been one of the bravest and best endings any
->: Hindi/Hindustani film ever had.
->
-> Kyun bhai UVRji,
-> kya aajkal aap bahut udaas aur GHamgeen raheney lageiN haiN kya? :)
-> Let poor MeenaK have a happy ending or two once in a while :) :)
-> As it is there are few films of her in which she doesn't spend her time
-> crying over the whole world ( I would have made that universe but fear of
-> reprisals from staunch fans like you and Pintuji makes me more prudent
-> :)) )
Waah bhai waah! Just because Meena Kumari has very "few" happy-ending
waali films, you want her to have the happy ending in Paakeezah? It's
just like saying in the ending of Kaaghaz ke Phool, Guru Dutt
shouldn't be dead (after singing the long saaaaaaaaaad song "bichhD.e
sabhi baari baari"), but should wake up from a deep and profound sleep
when Waheeda comes and puts her hand on his shoulder and say "maiN
kahaaN hooN?" and rub his eyes incredulously squinting through the
rays of the sun sieve-ing through the perforated tin roof of the old
studio. Not only that, he should start singing some song like
"ham to so rahe the zamaane se be_KHabar,
tum ne chhoo liyaa to hameiN hosh aa gayaa"
-- [*I* hold the copyrights for this ;-): UVR]
and rush out of the dingy studio, holding Waheeda's hand in his, out
into the bright vast expanse of the "happy" world.
What a horrible, terrible, anti-climactic ending! How anti-thetical
this idea would have been to the movie ... That's why Guru Dutt didn't
even get this kind of an outrageous idea. And that's why Kaaghaz ke
Phool remained an out and out tragedy.
IM*H*O, Kamal Amrohi would have made a more *lasting* movie if he had
decided that it would be a tragedy and nothing else but a tragedy.
rahi baat mere "aaj kal udaas aur GHam_geen" rahne ki, to let me
congratulate you on possessing an extremely incredible amount of ESP!
I will say no more.
->
->Later,
->Ikram.
Ravindra urf Faazil Fazal.
justajoo jis ki thi, kahaaN paayaa?
dil yooN hi chaak-o-KHooN_chakaaN paayaa.
jal gayaa jism aatish-e-GHam meiN,
rooH bhaTaktaa yahaaN-wahaaN paayaa.
zikr kyaa GHair kaa kareiN, 'faazil'? --
apnaa saayaa bhi bad_GHumaaN paayaa!
Ikram Ahmed Khan
: usas...@s027110.mmm.com (ShashiKant Joshi) writes:
: > : vo aai subaha ke parade se maut ki aawaaz
: > : kisi ne toD diyaa jaise zindagi ka saaz
: >
: > : It's too bad Asif lacked the sense or taste or courage to end the film
: > : with this song.
: >
: > He had to show that Anarkali is released by Akbar. Maybe that COULD
: > sound like Akbar (after all he is considered VERY wise, generous and
: > sensitive, even though raaj ki ijjat is foremost)
: Indeed! I think not only Akbar's commonly accepted profile as a
: generous Sultan, but also Asif's fear of public rejection made him
: choose this ending. As everyone knows, a lot of money was put in the
: making of this film and a lot of time too. Public rejection would
: mean that Asif would lose every single pie he ever had to his name!
: IMO, fear of scorn is one of the main reasons for mediocre output.
Bhai log,
Since we are in a Mughal-e-azam bashing mood (the movie not the emperor :) )
thought I should play a spoilsport and remind you of one of the best lines
that Akbar has in the movie --delivered oh-so-powerfully by the Great
Prithviraaj Kapoor
BaKHuda, hum mohabbat ke dushman naheeN,
usooloN ke GHulaam haiN
or pretty similar sounding stuff...
Me saw (well I'll amend that --- I used to make an entry for the songs and
then vanish) Anarkali and felt that other guy who played Akbar to be such a
wimp.... plus tho'Beena is pretty goodlooking ... apnee Madhubala kee baat
kahaaN :) :)
Plus me felt that the whole sequence of Anarkali being saved was done very
nicely... Beginning with how Anarkali's mother comes to Akbar with the ring
and how the ring falls into the scales and the rest of the stuff... pretty
good theatrical stuff I call it.....
Btw, one other lasting impressionof that movie and Anarkali's mother in that
movie is her crying out "Nadira... meri bachchhi..." quite a few times :)
: > bu in Pakeezah Kamal Amrohi did the similar thing.
: >
: > I really got pissed off at the end of Pakeezah, even
: > though personally, Meena Kumari creates in me images that I WANT to see her
: > have a good end in the movie. But Pakeezah was rejected based on being a
: > tawaayaf's beTi in the middle of the movie by Raj Kumar's chacha/abba.
: > In the end when it is known that Meena is Ashok Kumar's daughter thru the
: > tawaayaf, Ashok K gets bullet from his elder bro while saving Meena. Then at
: > that time she is asked again, whether she will accept Raj Kumar. I thin she
: > should have said no, for the story to become VERY powerful. Both because
: > tragedy haunts longer than a comedy and because Meena (who refused to marry
: > rajK at the LAST moment because she can never hide her reality) should have
: > seen that SHE didn't change,just got a big family name attached to her. And
: > all these people start looking at her nicely now!!!
: True. Kamal Amrohi didn't have any reason to have such an ending in
: Paakeezah. All through the movie, the over-riding emotion is one of
: tragedy and with one fell swoop, this ending succeeds in diluting what
: could have been one of the bravest and best endings any
: Hindi/Hindustani film ever had.
Kyun bhai UVRji,
kya aajkal aap bahut udaas aur GHamgeen raheney lageiN haiN kya? :)
Let poor MeenaK have a happy ending or two once in a while :) :)
As it is there are few films of her in which she doesn't spend her time
crying over the whole world ( I would have made that universe but fear of
reprisals from staunch fans like you and Pintuji makes me more prudent
:)) )
Later,
Ikram.
: But again, as I said, fear of scorn/ridicule is one of the causes for
Ikram Ahmed Khan
: Ikram-bhai:
: You've missed the point entirely -- we're not in a Mughal-E-Azam
: bashing mood at all -- we are in a K. Asif bashing mood. What? I am
: splitting hairs, you say? Well, who was the one who defended
: Prithviraj Kapoor and Madhubala over Wimp-Akbar and Bina Rai (I
: believe that's how she used to spell her name)? arey, is point pe to
: koi discussion ho hi nahiN saktaa. Prithviraj Kapoor made a great
: Akbar and Madhubala was Anarkali reincarnate ... but what the heck,
: the ending of Mughal-E-Azam was still the pits! Just goes to show
: that even with *GREAT* actors, a small wrong decision on the
: Director's part can ruin a great movie ...
Let me make a point, UVRji. Mughal-e-azam is nothing but K. Asif. The entire
credit of making the movie goes to him and only to him. Consider that he had
a tough time getting all the top stars for this movie. Consider also the
high budget of the movie. Consider also the high quality of Urdu in the
movie. Consider, finally an illiterate man making it.(Yes, he couldn't read
or write)Agreed that Prithviji was great, Chetan might not agree, but Dilip
made an ok Prince Saleem and no questions that Madhubala made the best
Anarkali ever (right down to Deepti Naval in Chashme-buddoor !! :) ), but K
Asif was the soul of the movie, since he did the direction and quite a few
other departments too.
Finally consider the name of the movie. Mughal-e-azam. The greatest Mughal.
Is it Prince Saleem that he is talking about?? NO! He is talking of Akbar.
In the story in which Anarkali dies, killed due to the cruel orders of a
seemingly heartless despot, where lies the greatness?? No, it lies in his
acknowledgement of defeat (in which he lets Madhu marry Saleem till his
final apology "Ho sake toh ik majboor ..... ko maaf kar dena , beti" or some
such thing. In the eyes of Akbar, allowing Saleem to make a kaneeZ his queen
would make the Mughal dynasty a laughing stock. (Now, that to us modern age
guys seem despotic too, but look at it this way. If you thought that you
were descended from a great line who gave their all to carve out an empire,
would you let an errant prince destroy all that? (Btw, I am NOT going into
the SCI type topic of calling the Mughals great or not. I am explaining it
as per the movie. So SCI type posters, please post any followup *only* to
SCI and thankfully I'll never have to follow that up)Would you let a country
which knew war for so long and had just stabilised in the recent fifty sixty
years again break up (as inevitably would have happened, as the proud
Princes, who pledged their allegiance to Akbar, would probably not have
accepted a kaneeZ as their Queen (Durjan Singh notwithstanding :) )
You said that K. Asif did not make the movie a tragedy. I say that the movie
was a tragedy. It was the tragic story of a Father who placed more
importance (in the words of Prithviraj himself towards the end of the movie
to a shocked-senseless Madhubala) in his duty to the people he ruled rather
than the love for his dearly loved son Shaikhu baba...
Just clarifying my point of view on this....
So please don't think that just becoz x doesn't die, the movie is not a
tragedy.
: -> Plus me felt that the whole sequence of Anarkali being saved was done very
: -> nicely... Beginning with how Anarkali's mother comes to Akbar with the ring
: -> and how the ring falls into the scales and the rest of the stuff... pretty
: -> good theatrical stuff I call it.....
: Yeah! Acting ko 100% marks mileNge. But story/direction ko "a big
: zero!"
: -> Btw, one other lasting impressionof that movie and Anarkali's mother in that
: -> movie is her crying out "Nadira... meri bachchhi..." quite a few times :)
: ->
: Frankly, it *was* a moving scene. But,
: a) it didn't belong in that movie,
: b) it wasn't historically true anyway!
Hey very few things in the movie were true. Saleem never fought his father.
It was KHurram or Shah jehaN who did that to Saleem. I wonder whether Akbar
the actual Emperor ever had the sense of History that the movie showed him
to possess or was even half as majestic in his demeanor as Prithviraaj
portrayed him (under the direction of Asif I might add :) ). There is a
legend about it.Though whatever facts that I have been told about are
that there was a kaneeZ who made overt gestures towards
Saleem during a court dance in the presence of the Emperor and the Emperor
had her chunvaoed for that impertinence.
And besides, I was referring to the scene much earlier in the movie too when
the mother repeats the same dialog. In fact, those were repeated thru'out
the movie methought. :)
: [*snip*]
Interesting! And even fascinating, doctor!
[attempt to sound like Mr. Spock stop _here :) ]
Frankly that ending would have tickled me pink. I mean Guru Dutt could
laugh forever and ever saying wah kya maamaa banaya public ko.
Kaghaz ke phool was a badly made movie! (Yup, I really said that)
It was badly made in the sense that you came out confused as to why the
rather pathetic goings on in the life of a director would be of interest
to you or any other movie goer.. RKs Mera naam Joker had the same problem.
Both movies showed promise, oh yes. Also there were certain aspects of
movie-making covered here and song filming that can be thought to be
really avant-garde stuff. But that is not the point , the point is either
to entertain, or to provoke thoughts. Kaaghaz ke phool provoked the
thought that the movie was silly and you can't expect so many things to be
going wrong for a fellow (and that too in such a theatrical fashion...
remember the scene of the movie failing). Flames on the merits of these
movies will be honored only if I have the time for it :) :)
_
: IM*H*O, Kamal Amrohi would have made a more *lasting* movie if he had
: decided that it would be a tragedy and nothing else but a tragedy.
The movie maker I felt had the responsibility of making a social comment
too, in this movie. Remember the irony of the "paoN maile ho jaa'enge"
dialog and the next shot of the mujra " Inhi logoN ne" ( Btw, I simply love
"Najariya kee maree..." and the " nigoDi " break in ThaDe raheeyo). The
name Pakeezah given to a courtesan. He had to get the hero to marry the
female for those statements to take effect. Btw, having her as teh legit.
daughter of Ashok K. could be termed as stooping but we then would have
missed the acting highlight of the movie ( The grand Dame who plays MeenaK's
senior boss (don't know what they are called. No sir, it is not madam that I
am searching for, thank you :) ) crying out "Shahabuddeen" and going hammer
& tongs at him. I really enjoyed that sequence. (Dada Moni looked so
litle-boy-lost in that scene ... real cute methought) )
The story where MeenaK decides to leave Raj would have probably made ppl
think that in her inner minds she considered herself tainted and not worthy
of Raj. And the point that she is worthy of Raj is the whole point of the
movie Pakeezah, isn't it? :)
: rahi baat mere "aaj kal udaas aur GHam_geen" rahne ki, to let me
: congratulate you on possessing an extremely incredible amount of ESP!
: I will say no more.
Apane hote yaar ho GHamgeeN, matlab hum naheeN
and consider the restof the stanzas from the Yaaree hai eemaan song
to be quoted too.
Including the
teree KHushee kee Qeemat kya hai, bataa de tu line.
I think that you'll find a lot of rmim-ers willing to get together to pay
the price (assuming that it is not in $$ :) :)
Whew, that was a long one!!
Sorry Prince for an overwhelmingly film related post on rmim but ... (no
excuses.... :( ... Me wants my ram(l)i waaaah.... somebody give me
ram(l)i please.....
Later,
Ikram.
: ->
Sivakumar Ravada
>Let me make a point, UVRji. Mughal-e-azam is nothing but K. Asif. The entire
>
>Is it Prince Saleem that he is talking about?? NO! He is talking of Akbar.
>In the story in which Anarkali dies, killed due to the cruel orders of a
>seemingly heartless despot, where lies the greatness?? No, it lies in his
>acknowledgement of defeat (in which he lets Madhu marry Saleem till his
>final apology "Ho sake toh ik majboor ..... ko maaf kar dena , beti" or some
>such thing. In the eyes of Akbar, allowing Saleem to make a kaneeZ his queen
>
>was a tragedy. It was the tragic story of a Father who placed more
>importance (in the words of Prithviraj himself towards the end of the movie
>to a shocked-senseless Madhubala) in his duty to the people he ruled rather
>than the love for his dearly loved son Shaikhu baba...
A 100% agrred upon contents by Ikram. I think Anarkali and
Mughal-E-Azam end differently. Now, now, hold your breath, hold on
the chair's arm rest tight. I haven't seen Anarkali yet.
But, the Mughal-E-Azam movie is mainly the story of Akbar in teh
turmoil of Saleem-Anarkali. It is to show his benevolence, which is
said to be really there.
He is also said to be a far-sighted poerson, marrying Rajputani, thus
making sandhi by relation (one of teh 16 sandhi's mentioned in
Hitopadesh)
And, one HAS to understand, what it means in REAL life, to have a
'lauNDiyaa naacho on the takht-e-Hind' (hamaaraa hindustaan tumhaaraa
dil nahiN jis par tum koi lauDiya nachaa-o)
In this age we can't visualize what it means to keep a kingdom
intact, if Kaneez had become Mahaarani of hindustan, rebellions were
inevitable.
>: Pintu Diwana wrote:
>: ->:> bu in Pakeezah Kamal Amrohi did the similar thing.
>
>: [*snip*]
>
>: ->:> tragedy haunts longer than a comedy and because Meena (who
>: ->:> refused to marry
>: ->:> rajK at the LAST moment because she can never hide her reality)
>: ->:> should have
>: ->:> seen that SHE didn't change,just got a big family name attached
>: ->:> to her. And
>: ->:> all these people start looking at her nicely now!!!
>: ->
>: ->: True. Kamal Amrohi didn't have any reason to have such an ending in
>: ->: Paakeezah. All through the movie, the over-riding emotion is one of
>: ->: tragedy and with one fell swoop, this ending succeeds in diluting what
>: ->: could have been one of the bravest and best endings any
>: ->: Hindi/Hindustani film ever had.
>: ->
>
> Kaghaz ke phool was a badly made movie! (Yup, I really said that)
> It was badly made in the sense that you came out confused as to why the
> rather pathetic goings on in the life of a director would be of interest
> to you or any other movie goer.. RKs Mera naam Joker had the same problem.
> Both movies showed promise, oh yes. Also there were certain aspects of
> movie-making covered here and song filming that can be thought to be
> really avant-garde stuff. But that is not the point , the point is either
> to entertain, or to provoke thoughts. Kaaghaz ke phool provoked the
> thought that the movie was silly and you can't expect so many things to be
> going wrong for a fellow (and that too in such a theatrical fashion...
> remember the scene of the movie failing). Flames on the merits of these
> movies will be honored only if I have the time for it :) :)
I will REALLY keep quite, as far as your comments about the story
line is considered :-)) But let me mention this much. I was watching
the Golden Years of MGM on PBS. And there they said (now again I am
BAD with p-stats) that the founder of MGM in MGM's later days, was
simply replaced when some Vegas tycoon bought the company. The
founder was illiterate but a major force behind MGM. Earlier studios
owned theaters etc. When that started to change, the actors,
musicians etc becams 'homeless' in the sense no more paid employees
of a studio. That was when Kaagaz ke Phool would fit in so well.
Money dictated art for teh first time for MGM.
>too, in this movie. Remember the irony of the "paoN maile ho jaa'enge"
>dialog and the next shot of the mujra " Inhi logoN ne" ( Btw, I simply love
>"Najariya kee maree..." and the " nigoDi " break in ThaDe raheeyo). The
>name Pakeezah given to a courtesan. He had to get the hero to marry the
>
>The story where MeenaK decides to leave Raj would have probably made ppl
>think that in her inner minds she considered herself tainted and not worthy
>of Raj. And the point that she is worthy of Raj is the whole point of the
>movie Pakeezah, isn't it? :)
No the point was (at least the one I was making) that, Pakeezah was
refused earlier by this SAME elite family. When they know she is
Ashok Kumar's daughter, they eat their own words. But, from MeenaK's
point, they have NOT changed, they are accepting her NOT FOR WHAT SHE
IS, but for what society says she is (Ashok's daughter, I mean, just
because she happened to be the daughter, she all of a sudden becomes
good?) That is narrowness of the elders.
-- Pintu Diwana
Syed M. Ali
]> In article <3ufhlt$9...@news.tamu.edu>
]> -> Btw, one other lasting impressionof that movie and Anarkali's mother in that
]> -> movie is her crying out "Nadira... meri bachchhi..." quite a few times :)
]> ->
]>
]> Frankly, it *was* a moving scene. But,
]> a) it didn't belong in that movie,
]> b) it wasn't historically true anyway!
There is no historical evidence that Anarkali actaully ever existed.
The only reference to the word "Anarkali" I could find in relevant
history books is quoted below (it's a discussion of Urdu theatre and
the Parsi theatre at the turn of the century):
---------------------------begin quote--------------------------------
Imtiaz Ali Taj (1900-70) was a bridge between Agha Hashr and
contemporary Pakistani playwrights. His Anarkali (1922), the tragic
love story of a harem girl, Anarkali, and Crown Prince Salim (son of
Akbar the Great), unfolds the love-hate relationship of a domineering
emperor and his rebellious son. Brilliant in treatment and character
analysis, this play has been staged hundreds of times by amateur
groups and has entered the list of Urdu classics.
Sources:
--------
1) Faubion Bowers, Theatre in the East (1956).
2) Balwant Gargi, Theatre in India (1962).
3) Hemendra Nath Das Gupta, The Indian Stage, 4 vol. (1934-44).
4) Balwant Gargi, Folk Theatre in India (1966).
----------------------------end quote---------------------------------
This is contrast with someone like Baiju Bawra who was employed in
Akbar's court alongside Tansen (the story on which the movie, Baiju
Bawra, is based is not substantiated by any source, though).
Syed
]> ->
]> ->Later,
]> ->Ikram.
]>
]> Ravindra urf Faazil Fazal.
]>
]> justajoo jis ki thi, kahaaN paayaa?
]> dil yooN hi chaak-o-KHooN_chakaaN paayaa.
]> jal gayaa jism aatish-e-GHam meiN,
]> rooH bhaTaktaa yahaaN-wahaaN paayaa.
]> zikr kyaa GHair kaa kareiN, 'faazil'? --
]> apnaa saayaa bhi bad_GHumaaN paayaa!
--
Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum
tubes and weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have
only 1,000 vacuum tubes and weigh only 1 1/2 tons.
---_ P_ o_ p_ u_ l_ a_ r_ _ M_ e_ c_ h_ a_ n_ i_ c_ s_ ,_ _ M_ a_ r_ c_ h_ _ 1_ 9_ 4_ 9
Madhuri Jarwala
Now this is not a music question; but related to the great love stories of
the Mughal era and movies. So here is Mughal-E-Azam - the love story of
Saleem and Anarkali. You would expect that Saleem would be heart-broken.
What I have always wondered is that this same Saleem later became Jahangeer
and married the legendarily beautiful persian princess Noor-Jehan, created
lovely gardens in Kashmir symbolising romantic love, and lived happily ever
after? How can that be?
If we are to believe the story of another movie "Taj Mahal" the love story
of Shah-Jehan and Mumtaaz, then this same Saleem and especially his wife
Noor-Jehan were gainst the love of this pair. And I think in this movie, the
father and son fought with each other. Didn't Saleem know better! One would
expect that he would be more considerate and understanding.
I know, I know, I am confusing movies with history and reality :-) But this
has always puzzled me. May be I am mistaken and Saleem and Jehangeer are
different? Can anybody shed light?
Madhuri Jarwala
m...@ohm.att.com
Ikram Ahmed Khan
: Now this is not a music question; but related to the great love stories of
: the Mughal era and movies. So here is Mughal-E-Azam - the love story of
: Saleem and Anarkali. You would expect that Saleem would be heart-broken.
: What I have always wondered is that this same Saleem later became Jahangeer
: and married the legendarily beautiful persian princess Noor-Jehan, created
: lovely gardens in Kashmir symbolising romantic love, and lived happily ever
: after? How can that be?
Noor JehaN was not a Persian Princess. They were refugees who came to
Akbar's court and found support there. There is hardly any fact which
verifies this legendary story of Saleem and Anarkali. The most that *I*
have heard is some nautch girl made some lewd gestures while presenting her
dance aimed at Saleem, while the Emperor was present. This was against the
adaab and tameez followed in the MuGHal court. Akber supposedly had her
sealed inside a wall (Yah, Yah, Horrific , I know.... Beleive me
crucifixion was also pretty standard stuff in the olden days tooo).
You might be interested in knowing that Noor JehaN was a widow when Saleem
married her. And yes, Saleem on ascension did take on the title of
Jehangeer.
: If we are to believe the story of another movie "Taj Mahal" the love story
: of Shah-Jehan and Mumtaaz, then this same Saleem and especially his wife
: Noor-Jehan were gainst the love of this pair. And I think in this movie, the
: father and son fought with each other. Didn't Saleem know better! One would
: expect that he would be more considerate and understanding.
Historical fact!! Purely because Noor JehaN favored Shahreyaar over KHurram
And Mumtaz Mahal was a neice of Noor JehaN methinks. Btw, KHurram wasn't
NoorJehaN's son.
Enough of the history..... Let's discuss music man!!!
Anybody know the list of songs for Taj Mahal??
Go ahead and post!!!.
Later,
Ikram.
: I know, I know, I am confusing movies with history and reality :-) But this
Ikram Ahmed Khan
: In article <3v17ht$6...@news.tamu.edu>,
: Ikram Ahmed Khan <iak...@tamu.edu> wrote:
: > Noor JehaN was not a Persian Princess. They were refugees who came to ....
: >
: > You might be interested in knowing that Noor JehaN was a widow when Saleem
: > married her. And yes, Saleem on ascension did take on the title of
: > Jehangeer.
: Thank you for the information. Now I wonder, why there hasn't been a movie
: about Noor Jehan? I mean it is quite dramatic if a refugee woman becomes
: Malika-E-Hind!
Me might be wrong but there is a movie on Noor JehaN too!
And it was pretty old too!
And btw, are you talking of Noor JehaN (Jahagir's wife) as teh
Malika-e-hind? Let me tell you that there are ppl. in the land of rmim who
call Noor JehaN (the singer) as the Malika-e-hind or Malika-e-tarannum or
whatever :) :) :)
: > Enough of the history..... Let's discuss music man!!!
: ^^^^
: Excuse me, Sir. Don't exclude us, women, from the discussion :-) :-)
: >
arre bhai, mera yeh matlab thoDee thha! Oops, make that "arre bahen" or some
similar thing. Actually just as "arre bahen" doesn't sound correct in
hindi/urdu similarly Let's discuss music "woman" would sound pretty awful.
:) :) And as for Let's discuss music, "person" , there was this real PJ
going around Texas A&M about how it has the word son in it and again is
sexist :) :)
And friend, don't band together against poor me on this issue. Renu might
consider deliberately giving me poor marks on rjgk just becos' of this!!
:) :)
: > Anybody know the list of songs for Taj Mahal??
: > Go ahead and post!!!.
: Jo wada kiya wo nibhana padega
: Pao choo le ne do phoolon ko inayat hogi
: Julmi ulfat pe
~~~~~~
Jurm-e-ulfat pe, methinks
: etc.
: Have CD at home, will look up.
Please do so and post the songs...
I have been wanting to check up on the other
songs from that cassette :) :) :)
Later,
Ikram.
: Madhuri Jarwala
: m...@ohm.att.com
Madhuri Jarwala
Ikram Ahmed Khan <iak...@tamu.edu> wrote:
> Noor JehaN was not a Persian Princess. They were refugees who came to ....
>
> You might be interested in knowing that Noor JehaN was a widow when Saleem
> married her. And yes, Saleem on ascension did take on the title of
> Jehangeer.
Thank you for the information. Now I wonder, why there hasn't been a movie
about Noor Jehan? I mean it is quite dramatic if a refugee woman becomes
Malika-E-Hind!
> Enough of the history..... Let's discuss music man!!!
^^^^
Excuse me, Sir. Don't exclude us, women, from the discussion :-) :-)
>
> Anybody know the list of songs for Taj Mahal??
> Go ahead and post!!!.
Jo wada kiya wo nibhana padega
Pao choo le ne do phoolon ko inayat hogi
Julmi ulfat pe
etc.
Have CD at home, will look up.
Madhuri Jarwala
m...@ohm.att.com
Indira Kuruganti
>: In article <3v17ht$6...@news.tamu.edu>,
>: Ikram Ahmed Khan <iak...@tamu.edu> wrote:
>: > Noor JehaN was not a Persian Princess. They were refugees who came to ....
>: >
>: > You might be interested in knowing that Noor JehaN was a widow when Saleem
>: > married her. And yes, Saleem on ascension did take on the title of
>: > Jehangeer.
>
>: Thank you for the information. Now I wonder, why there hasn't been a movie
>: about Noor Jehan? I mean it is quite dramatic if a refugee woman becomes
>: Malika-E-Hind!
>
I seem to remember a movie in which Noor-Jehan did have a role - it had
something to do with NoorJehan killing a poor fisherman with her arrow
and Jehangir (who is portrayed as a stickler for justice) having to decide
in response to the pleas of the widow of the fisherman whether or not to
sentence his wife NoorJehan to death ! But this movie certainly did not
depict the transformation of NoorJehan from a Persian refugee and war widow
to the Empress of the land. Am I right ?
Indira
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indira Kuruganti
Department of Systems Engineering
University of Virginia e-mail : ik...@virginia.edu
Ikram Ahmed Khan
: >
: >: Thank you for the information. Now I wonder, why there hasn't been a movie
: >: about Noor Jehan? I mean it is quite dramatic if a refugee woman becomes
: >: Malika-E-Hind!
: >
: > Me might be wrong but there is a movie on Noor JehaN too!
: ** Some discussion of politically correct pronouns deleted **
: I seem to remember a movie in which Noor-Jehan did have a role - it had
: something to do with NoorJehan killing a poor fisherman with her arrow
: and Jehangir (who is portrayed as a stickler for justice) having to decide
: in response to the pleas of the widow of the fisherman whether or not to
: sentence his wife NoorJehan to death ! But this movie certainly did not
: depict the transformation of NoorJehan from a Persian refugee and war widow
: to the Empress of the land. Am I right ?
You are absolutely right. The movie was Pukar made by Sohrab Modi . He also
played a character in it. Jahangir was played by Chandramohan and NoorJehaN
methinks was played by Naseem Bano (no relation to Azraji :) :) but the
mother of Saira Bano)
Btw, I do remember vaguely there being some movie with the name NoorJehaN or
some such thing. Would Surjit singh please look into this too?
Later,
Ikram.
: Indira
Sanjay Garg
: I seem to remember a movie in which Noor-Jehan did have a role - it had
: something to do with NoorJehan killing a poor fisherman with her arrow
: and Jehangir (who is portrayed as a stickler for justice) having to decide
: in response to the pleas of the widow of the fisherman whether or not to
: sentence his wife NoorJehan to death ! But this movie certainly did not
: depict the transformation of NoorJehan from a Persian refugee and war widow
: to the Empress of the land. Am I right ?
The movie you are referring to may be 'Pukar' by Sohrab Modi. The primary
theme of the movie was to portray the greatness of Jahaangir as chief
justice of india and not as a lover boy.
Sanjay
Surjit Singh
With pleasure!
According to the Encyclopaedia, in the period
1931-1980 there were only two movies
named NOORJAHAN:
1931 - Noorjehaan - Vimla, Nayampalli
1967 - Noorjehan - Meena Kumari, Pradeep Kumar
(Roshan and Shakeel)
By the way, "Pukaar" is available from Atlantic Video
in Dallas. It has an extremely beautiful song,
"Zindagi ka saaz bhi kya saaz hai", sung by
Naseem Bano.
Surjit Singh, a movie fan period.
du...@ttacs.ttu.edu
Madhuri Jarwala
Ikram Ahmed Khan <iak...@tamu.edu> wrote:
> Me might be wrong but there is a movie on Noor JehaN too!
...
> Jurm-e-ulfat pe, methinks
Every day I learn something new! My urdu/hindi definitely can use some
improvement. So may be you can overlook my wrong urdu and I can overlook
the "man"! Fittam?
Here is the list of songs from Taj Mahal, a nice romantic movie with
beautiful songs, and an almost happy ending.
Taj Mahal
Starring: Bina Ray and Pradeep Kumar
MD: Roshan
Lyrics: Sahir
Jo wada kiya wo (happy)
Rafi and Lata
Jo baat tujh me hai
Rafi
Chandi ka badan
Rafi, Asha, Manna Dey, Meena Kapoor & Chorus
Paon chhoo lene do
Rafi and Lata
Jurm-e-ulfat pe
Lata
Na na na re
Suman Kalyanpur and Minoo Purshottam
Jo wada kiya (sad)
Rafi and Lata
Madhuri Jarwala
m...@ohm.att.com