i frequently come across music released both in cassette tape and CD form.
but in most of the cases the CD is priced for above the price of the
cassette. (nearly 5-6 times.) do u think this is justified since a CD blanc
costs almost as much as the blank tape and the royalty paid is the same.
hari
> hari
Rich peopl have a higher willingness to pay. Therefore charging high for CDs
is profit maximizing. In other words, price discrimination is possible in
this market and therefore producers do it.
Atanu
In case of CDs, for a consumer CD blank may be cheap, but for a wholesale
producer CD mastering, printing costs have to be accounted. The distribution
system only pays about $4 to $6 to the producer. $2 is the profit margin for
the wholesale distributor and about $3 to $4 for the retailer. The retailer
takes maximum commission as the merchandise once purchased is not returnable
and he pays the rent, electricity cost, labor in the store etc.
I hope the customer will see how a CD is sold at $12 or around Rs 350.
Lastly, as a producer if I can not make 10% net profit (after overhead and
taxes) on my investment, I will rather invest in stock market rather than
producing music.
Mohan Ranade
Neelam Audio & Video, Inc.
www.neelam.com
I think it is simply that the US market ofr Indian music is mainly for CDs
while there is a large market in India for cassettes. Many there can not
afford the price of CDs on a large scale.
R. Chandrasekaran
R. Chandrasekaran
Even the piracy in the CD market is creating problems for the original
manufacturer which is bringing down the price of a CD.
In US the cost of CD and cassette is very high compare to actual cost because
market supports it.
Where there is no threat of piracy particularly in classical music, cassette
sells at Rs. 65 instead of Rs. 20 for popular music. The volume is another
factor that dictates the price. If the casette and CD price is very close, who
will buy a cassette?
Mohan Ranade
Neelam Audio
You fail to mention another crucial element
that accounts for the cassette price differences
between the US and India: quality of the tape and
recording. The Indian tapes which sell for Rs. 32
in India (and $1.99 in the US) are usually good for
one or two listenings before they deteriorate.
As for their recording quality, the customer has to
throw in a silent prayer while parting with their
cash. There are better cassettes, in terms of both
tape and recording quality, in the market these days
(the most notable one being Music Today) which sell
for over Rs. 50.
As for the falling prices of CDs, piracy is not the
only reason. The emergence of alternative storage
technologies is another cause. Also remember that
the consumer is armed with more information sources
these days, (thanks to the internet), that allows them
to search for the lowest prices more easily.
An well-informed consumer is usually incompatible with
high profit margins in any market (I don't mean to
sound cynical but...)
Veena
: If the casette and CD price is very close, who
: will buy a cassette?
So what if they will not buy a cassette? Why artifically support a media
that could by replaced a far superior one, the CD? With one media, volumes
would go up and prices hopefully lower. Why is there the needs to keep a
price differential between CD and cassette so that people by more
cassette? Make no sense to me.
--
Sajjad Khaliq / Hamilton / Ontario / Canada
NEELAMAV wrote:
> In US and other western countries, piracy can be controlled. In India cassette
> prices came down because of the constant threat of pirates selling the same
> material at a cheaper cost. Another culprit is the version music. When you buy
> say a cassette of Madan Mohan's songs sung by Anuradha Paudwal, the company
> that makes it do not have to pay Madan Mohan or anybody else. The original
> soundtrack producer gets hurt this way and in India so called version tapes
> have been blessed by the government as legal tapes. The scenario will soon
> change as the govt. has signed on international copyright agreement.
>
> Even the piracy in the CD market is creating problems for the original
> manufacturer which is bringing down the price of a CD.
>
> In US the cost of CD and cassette is very high compare to actual cost because
> market supports it.
>
> Where there is no threat of piracy particularly in classical music, cassette
> sells at Rs. 65 instead of Rs. 20 for popular music. The volume is another
> factor that dictates the price. If the casette and CD price is very close, who
> will buy a cassette?
>
> Mohan Ranade
> Neelam Audio
Nick Haynes wrote:
--
Balwant N. Dixit
University of Pittsburgh
541-2 Salk Hall
Pittsburgh, PA 15261
Tel No:(412) 648-8582
FAX No:(412) 648-8475
This is not necessarily so unlike the West. Here, the organizer
of the concert series will make the performers sign a contract,
one provision of which is that the organizer owns the rights to
any recordings produced. So, by enforcing rights, you likely get
only a situation where the organizer says "Sign this or you do not
perform."
Still, the issue of copyright on Indian classical performances
needs more scrutiny. I certainly attempt to respect the performers
on this issue, but it can be difficult even to know, when it comes
to recordings.
Todd McComb
mcc...@medieval.org
It seems a shame that composition does not provide an income, though I suppose
that the creation from scratch of something like UK's Performing Rights
Society
would be a huge undertaking. Maybe there is something to do with recorded
music
(thus the music industry) being at the heart of thinngs in the West and live
music being so in India.
I suppose that if I were a musician, being paid not very much to perform, and
then I
find I have to pay to sing e.g. a tillana by Balamuralikrishna I should just
not sing it.
So composition in Carnatic music earns glory but not cash? That is a shame:
it must mean that those who have a gift for composition but who are not
brilliant performers
never get a look in.
Todd Michel McComb wrote:
> In article <38C69858...@pitt.edu>, bdixit <bdi...@pitt.edu> wrote:
> >In India, a very senior musician organizes a series of concerts,
> >invites a number of well known performers, makes recordings of
> >their performances, and pays them "some" honorarium." Then when
> >he goes overseas, he sells these recordings, for a "substantial"
> >one-time payment, to a manufacturer, many times without even
> >informing the performers.
>
In fact, after a couple of experiences with some Indian companies, I resolved
to never play a recording without decent upfront payments... (I have never
had any problems with companies outside of India where regular royalties are
concerned....)
But I wish to bring another side of this issue.... A company can own
'musical' rights to a CD but it can never feel the rights of 'musicality' that
an artiste will feel for his or her music...
When I played my first commercial recording (for a leading Indian company), I
was 12 and did not know much about royalties or contracts and was persuaded to
sign a contract which was described as 'part of the usual procedures'. This
recording was then sold to another CD company a few years later and naturally,
the first I came to know of this development was in a shop in Los Angeles a
few more years later...!!
(And because they had not informed me of this deal, they could not get my
updated photo and resorted to a sketch of mine instead... but that is another
story...)
Had I been informed of it beforehand, I would have persuaded them NOT to do it
for musical reasons alone - my playing at 12 was much worse compared to what
it was when I was 18 or 19! And, this CD did not even specify that it was my
music when I was 12... And - as is only natural - THIS CD is growing from
strength to strength even today....!! I have spent lots of time and energy
trying to convince people to buy more recent releases of mine, rather than
suffer through my boyish attempts...
I know that many artistes feel this way.... Flute genius Mali used to
wistfully hope that all copies of his 78 rpm gramaphone record, Ninnuvina
Namadendu in Navarasakannada, rendered in his early years (which I consider is
an amazing display of his virtuosity), ought to be collected and smashed to
bits....
Even in exploitative or restrictive contracts, whatever the legalities of the
case, an artiste must have an artistic say in what happens to the recording a
few years down the line because he/she may feel that it does not do justice to
their current musicality or image... Maybe there should be a clause that
should say that - should a musician feel that he can do better at the time of
the deal, a fresh recording must be made which gives artistic satisfaction to
all....
Cheers,
Chitravina N. Ravikiran,
from Dayton.
-----------------------------------------------
Todd Michel McComb wrote:
> In article <38C69858...@pitt.edu>, bdixit <bdi...@pitt.edu> wrote:
> >In India, a very senior musician organizes a series of concerts,
> >invites a number of well known performers, makes recordings of
> >their performances, and pays them "some" honorarium." Then when
> >he goes overseas, he sells these recordings, for a "substantial"
> >one-time payment, to a manufacturer, many times without even
> >informing the performers.
>
Is there even such a person in Indian classical music?
Todd McComb
mcc...@medieval.org
Lamentably, this sort of thing also happens regularly to Western
musicians dealing with Western companies. It can be difficult for
anyone -- to concentrate on music and doing one's best, but also
to be aware of the business side of things. The record companies
will try what we call "strong arm tactics". It is not only an
Indian thing, although the Western companies might be easier to
*find* again and complain.
Todd McComb
mcc...@medieval.org
Why, yes of course. Ramashreya Jha "Ramrang," for one.
There are others. And I'm sure there are a few on the
Karnataka side as well.
Warm regards,
r
"Brilliant" is a slightly tricky term. But if you are willing to replace
it with "saleable", the answer to your question is yes! In fact, many
great composers of khayals were not very popular as performers. Names
like S.N.Ratanjankar and Jagannathbua Purohit 'Gunidas' come to mind.
C
Okay, well, I hope not to replace it with such a thing!
But I do take your point.
Todd McComb
mcc...@medieval.org
>In article <8abc3u$95j$1...@machaut.medieval.org>
>mcc...@medieval.org (Todd Michel McComb) writes:
>>In article <38C92DA7...@sumitomomarine.co.uk>,
>>Nick Haynes <nha...@sumitomomarine.co.uk> wrote:
>>>it must mean that those who have a gift for composition but who
>>>are not brilliant performers never get a look in.
>>
>>Is there even such a person in Indian classical music?
>>
>>Todd McComb
>>mcc...@medieval.org
>
>
>Why, yes of course. Ramashreya Jha "Ramrang," for one.
>There are others. And I'm sure there are a few on the
>Karnataka side as well.
To add to my earlier note:
The amount which Jha-sahab received for each of his 4 published
volumes highlights the sorry state of the publishing industry
in India. One would make more in a day flipping burgers at
MacDonalds than what Jha-sahab got for a lifetime of work,
much of it of top class. Not that it bothers him in the least.
On the other hand, you have chickenshit ethnopimps, after
a couples of years' "fieldwork," producing handsome hardbound
glossy-paged reams of doodle that goes for about $100. Ditto
with garden-variety third-rate "senior" (citizen) students
who have merged with the ustAd's pubic hair after 25 years and
"thousands of hours" of listening.
A review of Jha-sahab's volumes was posted in the young days
of RMIC by Art Levine. It is attached below. Since then, the
fourth volume has been published and Jha-sahab is currently at
work on the fifth, which will include 50 additional rAgas and
compositions in them. The going is slow now, since age has
caught up with him. It is fortuitous that he agreed to publish
in the first place. Whatever he conceives is entered in his
diary only in the form of the text superscripted with a few
swaras as mnemonic for the tune outline. The rest - its
tAla-nibaddha form and other nuances - he carries in his head.
The act of publishing coerced him into putting to paper a
fair amount of detail.
Warm regards,
r
*****
By: Art Levine
Jha, Ramashraya ("Ramrang"). <AL>
Abhinava Geetanjali.
Sangeet Sadan Prakashan, 88 South Malaka, Ilahabad. Durbhash:54973.
India
Here's my pick for the best publication on Hindustani music. 3
volumes, totalling ca. 750 pages, surveying 77 rags (counting the
four type of Patmanjari as separate rags).
Volume 1, 262 pages. 3rd edition, 1989.- 15 rags:
Shyam Kalyan, Shuddh Sarang, Devgiri Bilaval, Yamani Bilaval,
Bhatiyar, Puriya Kalyan, Bilaskhani Todi, Gurjari Todi, Maru Bihag,
Chandrakauns, Jogkauns, Sur Malhar, Madhuvanti, Ahir Bhairav,
Hansadhvani, (Rag Mala)
Volume 2, 255 pages. 3rd edition, 1991.- 30 rags:
Suha Kanhra, Nayaki Kanhra, Shahana, Devsakh, Ramsakh, Bavsakh,
Lachchhasakh, Kafi Kanhra, Kaushik Kanhra, Abhogi Kanhra, Maluha
Kedar, Jaldhar Kedar, Sindhura, Patdeep, Hanskinkani, Pradeepaki,
Barwa, Bhim, Bhim (type 2), Palasi, Rageshwari, Dhani, Gopika
Basant, Gandhari, Devgandhar, Khat, Jhinjhoti, Gara, Tilang, Mand,
Pahadi
Volume 3, 237 pages. 3rd edition, 1991.- 32 rags:
Narayani, Gorakh Kalyan, Khambavati, Janasammohani, Kalavati, Jog,
Nand, Jait Kalyan, Shukla Bilaval, Kukubh Bilaval, Sarparda
Bilaval, Nat Bilaval, Hamir Bilaval, Hemant, Durga (Bilaval thaat),
Pratap Barali, Bihagra, Nat Bihag, Pat Bihag, Chandni Bihag, Miyan
ki Sarang, Madhamad Sarang, Lankadahan Sarang, Samant Sarang,
Badhans Sarang, Jaitashri, Saraswati Sarang, Patmanjari (type 1),
Patmanjari (type 2), Patmanjari (type 3), Patmanjari (type 4),
Basant Mukhari, [8 Thumris]
A couple of factors make *Abhinava Geetanjali* outstanding. First,
many of the compositions are superb, both in terms of the way they
reveal the face of the rag, and for their sheer rhythmic interest.
You'll also note that many of the rags are well into the aprachalit
(rare) category. But the thing that really makes this set great is
the very detailed discussion of the rags themselves. Just to cite
one example: the discussion of Khambavati in vol. 3 consists of a
9-page essay and includes, among other things, a detailed treatment
of the way each individual swara is to be handled. I am not aware
of any other book that comes close to this. Certainly nothing in
English.
And there's the rub, as they say. Armed with a good Hindi-English
dictionary and a reading speed of about three words per hour, I and
the rest of the angloid contingent can basically make out more --
or less -- what Mr. Jha is talking about. But pulling teeth, or what.
So to a statement and a question. Statement: of all the books I
know of written in Hindi on the subject of Hindustani m., this one
is the most valuable both from a theoretical and compositional
point of view, and so is most worthy of being translated into
English. Question: would anyone be interested in having a crack at
one of the essays, just so we can have the translation as a "model"
for what a discussion of rag really can be. And of course, in
saying this, I don't at all mean to take away from the value of the
more "thumbnail" sketches provided in such books as Kaufmann,
Raganidhi or lately, through the efforts of Murali and John, in
rmic. So, any takers for a pioneering translation project? I, for
one, would be eternally grateful.
*****
I think the famous composer Papanasam Sivan (correct me if I am wrong,
please) was not really known to be a brilliant performer. His
compositions are quite good and probably most frequently sung after the
trinity. Also, there are others like Shri. Shankara Iyer (I don't
recollect his initials) who are good composers but not very good
performers.
chidu...
"Rajan P. Parrikar" wrote:
>
> In article <8abc3u$95j$1...@machaut.medieval.org>
> mcc...@medieval.org (Todd Michel McComb) writes:
> >In article <38C92DA7...@sumitomomarine.co.uk>,
> >Nick Haynes <nha...@sumitomomarine.co.uk> wrote:
> >>it must mean that those who have a gift for composition but who
> >>are not brilliant performers never get a look in.
> >
> >Is there even such a person in Indian classical music?
> >
> >Todd McComb
> >mcc...@medieval.org
>
> Why, yes of course. Ramashreya Jha "Ramrang," for one.
> There are others. And I'm sure there are a few on the
> Karnataka side as well.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> r
--
Chidambaram Narayanan
Institute fur Energietecknik
Clausiusstrasse 33
ETH Zentrum, CLT D4
CH-8092, Zurich
Off: +41(01)632-4601
My comment did not fit the context of the thread very well. My
experience is that, more often than not, people such as these are
very compelling singers, at least among small groups, but they are
not widely popular for their singing. So, obviously, they are not
making money from it, which was the point of the thread. My rather
misguided comment was more a reflection of my experience that
listening to the more scholarly or composition-oriented artists is
often very attractive. Anyway, my question was not a good one.
Todd McComb
mcc...@medieval.org
Rajan, please remember that those $100 books sell almost entirely
to academic institutions. A sale of more than a few thousand copies
of any scholarly ethnomusicology book is most anomalous. The authors
rarely receive substantial royalties from these works; what accrues to
them is professional cachet in a rather small circle of peers. Also note
that in many cases these same ethnomusicologists have contributed
substantially to the income of their preceptors; grant funding from AIIS
and the like is intended to be used for such purposes. I have myself been
supported several times in my study in India by such grants, and I must
say that it hasn't made too much of an impact on my income here in the
West (I even paid taxes on the grant money I received in India!) -- those
monies have gone to the people who helped me learn. If I got another
grant to learn bandishes from Jha-saheb, he would surely be the beneficiary
of the ethnomusicology "establishment," na?
In any case, the economic condition of academics in general, and of
practitioners in a relatively marginal field such as ethnomusicology
in particular, is not such as to suggest that their motives lie in the
remuneration. In the current academic climate, most are not even
full-time faculty members; they may be part-time teachers in two, three
or four separate institutions, piecing together a livelihood while spending
all their spare time driving from place to place. Publishing *something*
is one of their only hopes for advancing in this restricted academic
universe; it is extremely rare that the royalties for an ethnomusicology
book will come anywhere close to compensating the author for the multiple
levels of expense involved (consequently you will note that the acknowledgement
pages of such volumes invariably cite multiple grant sources).
Of course there are people in the field who produce work that is below
accepted scholarly levels; others draw irrelevant conclusions or obscure
the paucity of their knowledge with miasmatic erudition, sound and fury
signifying nothing. But other ethnomusicologists have made significant
contributions to our understanding of the human condition and its
expressions in music. Chernoff's work is a model in this regard, and I
can think of a number of others.
As I said, some such books are better than others. But to judge the
field in wholly perjorative terms because of the failings of some is
analogous to judging the whole corpus of khyal tradition by the epigonic
croonings of the latest Jasraj clone.
WS
i enjoy listening to hindustani classical vocal music and have noticed
several e-mails disparaging pandit jasraj and would appreciate knowing
what is wrong with him (and/or his group)? since you both seem so
educated in this field, would you ( warren and rajan) kindly let me know
which tapes or cd's of hindustani classical vocal to begin listening to.
i am trying to listen to the best singers and to educate myself. thank
you in advance.
lorraine
Warren Senders wrote:
>
> >On the other hand, you have chickenshit ethnopimps, after
> >a couples of years' "fieldwork," producing handsome hardbound
> >glossy-paged reams of doodle that goes for about $100.
>
This is a complex question which breaks down into two principal
areas of disparagement: musical and behavioral. These two are
of course interdependent; the proposed dialectic is only for purposes
of argument.
Musical disparagement centers on several areas:
1 - His melodic construction is often excessively simple, with
improvisations that follow straightforward additive or subtractive
procedures without variation, as in:
S — SR — SRG — SRGM — SRGMP —
To be sure, most Hindustani singers use these formulae, but PJ
seems to have made them the basis of his current style, thus creating
improvisations which are (to put it rather kindly) "obvious."
The implication of this is that he has not applied his mind to his
music; because the style (as the name 'khyal' suggests) requires
"imagination," most cognoscenti find PJ's singing to be intellectually
unsatisfying and "weak."
2 - His intonation is often inaccurate. A concomitant feature here
is that PJ's voice production creates a "crooning" sound which
de-emphasizes upper partials; this is not a sin in itself, but in this context
it serves to disguise an inappropriately large intonational standard
deviation.
3 - (this criticism moves into behavioral areas) He is very often
guilty of "playing to the gallery," with musically inappropriate
virtuoso displays (swoops up to ati-tar Sa in irrelevant locations,
for example) that distort the contours of the raag.
Behaviorally:
1 - PJ appears to have swallowed the substance of his own promotional
brochures whole and without even a single brief hiccup. Thus a friend in
Bombay informed me recently that PJ has instructed his disciples to
refer to him with the prefixual sobriquet "living legend," as in "...I am
learning
with living legend Pandit Jasraj." His concert appearances involve ever-more-
elaborate stage management (accompanists on stage playing -- PJ makes his
entrance -- they all stand up -- he sits down with a flourish -- they all sit
down) and self-aggrandizing emceeing (another friend heard the announcer
read ALL the awards PJ had ever received, all the way down to a certificate
from the Bombay Rotary Club, before he came on stage).
2 - Hubris is accompanied by rudeness and crassness. I have experienced
this first-hand, as have many other friends and colleagues over the years.
Wishing to spare my own blood pressure, I will refrain from giving examples.
While Jasraj's early recordings are often exquisite, he was acclaimed too
much too soon, and the intoxication of others' praise has left him befuddled
in the realms of both music and manners. What is left is not a pretty picture,
or a pleasing sound.