Raaga difference & identification.
sl...@cc.usu.edu
Hai,
Can anyone post the difference in arohanam/avarohanam between the
raagams ShanmukhaPriya and Simmendhra Madhyamam? I find that the difference
is too narrow.
Sometime back, someone had enquired about the raagam of the Tamil
film song "Andhi Mazhai Pozhigiradhu" from "Raaja Paarvai". I could see
no response to it. I am too at dark and would like to know the raagam.
Could someone post it?
Seetharaman Murali,
Utah State Uty,
Logan, UT - 84322.
Sivaramapuram Subramanyam Kris
>
>
> Sometime back, someone had enquired about the raagam of the Tamil
>film song "Andhi Mazhai Pozhigiradhu" from "Raaja Paarvai". I could see
>no response to it. I am too at dark and would like to know the raagam.
>Could someone post it?
>
It seems to be vasantha. I'm not sure though. I'm just recollecting the song
from my memory. So I may be wrong.
krishna
--
S S Krishna
Deptt. of Computer Science
Oregon State Univ, Corvallis, OR 97331
Vidyasankar Sundaresan
- Hai,
- Can anyone post the difference in arohanam/avarohanam between the
- raagams ShanmukhaPriya and Simmendhra Madhyamam? I find that the
difference
- is too narrow.
Shanmukhapriya and Simhendramadhyamam differ only in their Nishada.
Shanmukhapriya uses the Kaisiki Nishada while Simhendramadhyamam uses
Kakali Nishada. They are consecutive ragas in the melakarta scheme (Nos.
56 and 57).
S.Vidyasankar
Thyagarajan Mohan
>In article <1992Nov23.1...@cc.usu.edu> sl...@cc.usu.edu writes:
>>
>>
>> Sometime back, someone had enquired about the raagam of the Tamil
>>film song "Andhi Mazhai Pozhigiradhu" from "Raaja Paarvai". I could see
>>no response to it. I am too at dark and would like to know the raagam.
>>Could someone post it?
>>
>
>It seems to be vasantha. I'm not sure though. I'm just recollecting the song
>from my memory. So I may be wrong.
>
of TVG in between sounds more like `hamsaanandhini'.So,I feel it may be assigned
to the Hindhusthaani raagaa `Basanth'.
>krishna
>--
MOHAN
S. Ramanathan
> Can anyone post the difference in arohanam/avarohanam between the
>raagams ShanmukhaPriya and Simmendhra Madhyamam?
Shanmukhapriya : S R g M P d n S
Simhendra Madhyamam : S R g M P d N S
They are consequtive _melakarta_ ragas (somewhere in the upper 50's) -
consequently, the arohanam = avarohanam = shown above.
The difference is in the nishada only.
>I find that the difference
>is too narrow.
Interesting... I assume you mean the ragas _sound_ similar. I had the
same feeling when I first heard these two ragas ... clearly, it is not
because "_just_ one note is different" (look at Kalyani and Sankarabharanam
for instance).
It seems to me that the (rather rare) combination of the prati Madhyama
and the flattened (shuddha?) dhaivadha, that is common to both ragas
creates a unique and dominating effect for both ragas that makes them
sound similar. Note that on a veena or a keyboard, the three notes M, P, d
would be bunched together - few other ragas have three consequtive
notes _within_ an octave (ie, ignoring N S r combinations).
I am curious to know if there is a Hindustani equivalent of either
Shanmukhapriya or Simhendra Madhyamam (or at least, with the same swaras).
Both ragas (especially Shanmukhapriya) are often played in concerts and
have a number of compositions in them - so it would seem that there should
be some Hindustani equivalent? Any clues?
- Ram.
Shiva Shivakumar
>>
>>
>> Sometime back, someone had enquired about the raagam of the Tamil
>>film song "Andhi Mazhai Pozhigiradhu" from "Raaja Paarvai". I could see
>>no response to it. I am too at dark and would like to know the raagam.
>>Could someone post it?
>>
>
>It seems to be vasantha. I'm not sure though. I'm just recollecting the song
>from my memory. So I may be wrong.
>
>krishna
The best fit I could come up with is a janya ragam of PanthuvaraLi with
arohanam : Sa Ga3 Ma2 Pa Dha1 Ni3 Sa
avarohanam : Sa Ni3 Dha1 Pa Ma2 Ga3 Ri1 Sa
I do not know what name has been given to this combination. (Maybe we should
suggest to ILayaraaja that he should claim to have 'created' a new ragam!)
The beginning sounds like Vasantha because if you remove Ri from the above
scale (or restrict to passages without this note) and map Sa to Ma1 (or Pa to Sa however you want to look at it) it becomes Vasantha scale.
In Vasantha the song goes "Ma - MaMaMa - GaMaDhaMaGa" while in "ILayaraajapriya" it goes "Sa - SaSaSa - NiSaGaSaNi"
About mapping ragas to film songs - use it to understand scales and improve
ragam-identification-by-similarity, but keep in mind that the gamakas that
are the soul of the ragam are usually missing in the film songs. Mind you
I am not at all implying that the film song does not sound good without these
gamakas, they are simply different.
Jagadisan Shivakumar
Mohan Krishnamoorthy
> Can anyone post the difference in arohanam/avarohanam between the
> raagams ShanmukhaPriya and Simmendhra Madhyamam? I find that the difference
> is too narrow.
Yes, the difference is minimal. If I am not mistaken, the difference is
in the `ni' that the ragams incorporate. While shanmukhapriyA has the
kaisiki nishadham (n2), simmEndramadhyamam incorporates the kAkali
nishadham (n3).
ragA: simmendramadhyamam
for example: natajanapari pAlagana
ninnE nammithI
kAkali nishadham
The ragam has:
sajjam, chatursruti rishabham, sadhArna gAndhAram, prati madhyamam,
panchamam, shudha daivatam, kAkali nishadham.
In other words: s r2 g2 m2 p d1 n3 s
s n3 d1 p m2 g2 r2 s
ragA: shanmukhapriyA
for example: sidhivinayakam (Muthuswamy Dikshitar)
kaisiki nishadham
The arOhanam/avarOhanam for this ragam:
s r2 g2 m2 p d1 n2 s
s n2 d1 p m2 g2 r2 s
I hope I am right.
> Seetharaman Murali,
/Mohan
-------
Mohan Krishnamoorthy, CSIRO, Division of Maths and Stats,
Private Bag 10, Clayton, Melbourne, VIC 3168, Australia.
Phone: (Off) +61 3 542 2263; (Res): +61 3 543 4248
Fax: +61 3 542 2474; email: mo...@mel.dms.CSIRO.AU
Vidyasankar Sundaresan
writes:
- I am curious to know if there is a Hindustani equivalent of either
- Shanmukhapriya or Simhendra Madhyamam (or at least, with the same
swaras).
- Both ragas (especially Shanmukhapriya) are often played in concerts and
- have a number of compositions in them - so it would seem that there
should
- be some Hindustani equivalent? Any clues?
-
- - Ram.
-
-
To the best of my knowledge there is no equivalent for either
Shanmukhapriya or Simhendramadhyamam in Hindustani music.
Simhendramadhyamam is supposedly the base for some Hungarian folk tunes
and Gypsy (Romani) music and they tune their harp to that scale.
S.Vidyasankar
gopikrishna sabnavls
To the best of my knowledge, Simhendra madhyamam is called Simhendra Madhyama in Hindustani too. Hindustani music has recently(within the last 50 years) picked up ragas like Simhendra Madhyamam and Kiravani(melakartha no 21) from Karnatic music.To the best of my knowledge Tagore was the first person to use Simhendra Madhyamam . One of his songs is similar to the song " Needu Charanamule" which he heard from a Karnatic vocalist by name Savithri Krishnan in the 30s.
gopi
larama...@gmail.com
N2 Shanmukhapriya
N3 Simmhendramadhyamam
Lakshman Ragde
> Hai,
> Can anyone post the difference in arohanam/avarohanam between the
SaNmukhapriyA: S Rt Gk Mp P Dk Nk S
simhEndramadhyam: S Rk Gk Mp P Dk Nt S
where t meams tIvra, k means kOmal and p is prati.
