Looking for the lyrics of a bade ghulam ali thumri
surs...@my-deja.com
I'm searching for the lyrics of the thumri Bade
Ghulam Ali Khan sings in the Raga Sohni for the
movie "Mughal-e-Azam". Its the Salim-Anarkali
love scene. I can't make out the very last line
of the antara.
I also checked the Munawar Ali Khan-Raza Ali Khan
rendition from their "Homage To Bade Ghulam Ali
Khan" album (1989). The same exact last line is
unclear in that recording also..I guess the high
sur and complicated pattern make it hard to
pronounce clearly for an audio recording. The
coverbook of the cd only gives the first two
lines of the song for some reason.
This is what I have so far....
prema jogana bana ke sundara piya aura chali
sajana se jo naina mile to mana ki pyasa bujhi
piya sanga sagari raina gujari....
there's a small phrase that completes this
line....it might have the words 'badana'
or 'bainya' in it....
if anyone can document what that last line
is, ....or if anyone knows how i might go about
finding out what the line is,....i would be
extremely grateful....
thanks.
sursagara
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Ajay P Nerurkar
: This is what I have so far....
: prema jogana bana ke sundara piya aura chali
: sajana se jo naina mile to mana ki pyasa bujhi
: piya sanga sagari raina gujari....
It is virtually impossible to tell for certain from the recording,
but I think the last line is:
pi sanga sagari raina gujaari, bairan bhor bhayi
Why don't you try contacting the Bade Ghulam Ali clan at sub...@hotmail.com
and let us know if they can throw any more light on the matter ?
Ajay
surs...@my-deja.com
Ajay P Nerurkar <a...@cs.buffalo.edu> wrote:
> It is virtually impossible to tell for certain from the recording,
> but I think the last line is:
>
> pi sanga sagari raina gujaari, bairan bhor bhayi
>
> Why don't you try contacting the Bade Ghulam Ali clan at
sub...@hotmail.com
> and let us know if they can throw any more light on the matter ?
>
> Ajay
>
Thank you so much for your reply. I think your suggestion would be a
beautiful ending to the song and the scene in the movie. "And then the
enemy that is morning arrived...." Kya bat. I will check with Naqi
Ali Khansahab and let you know. I was also wondering whether this was
Bade Ghulam Ali Khan's creation and/or decision to sing for the movie
or a traditional composition that he was requested to sing by K. Asif,
the director. Are there any other books on his life and music or
perhaps his compositions besides the deodhar chapter, the mishra
eulogy, the joshi article and the roli publications small book (that
comes with a tape)? I will ask Khansahab about all this also. Thanks
again.
Sunit Singla aka sursagara
Ajay P Nerurkar
Here is part of an article on the making of Mughal-e-Aazam that
was posted on RMIM by Satish Subramanian.
Ajay
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For Salim and Anarkali it was love-at-first-sight. It's a moon-
lit night. The prince is caressing her cheek with a feather. "No
dialog," decided Asif. "Just a song playing in the background."
Tansen singing "prem jogan ban jaoo.." in raag Sohni. A purely
classical number which only an ustad could render.
Naushad suggested Bade Ghulam Ali Khan. But Ustadji didn't sing
for films. Asif was convinced he could make him change his mind.
One Sunday morning he drove down to the Ustad's house with
Naushad.
Ustadji hated Asif on sight. He took Naushad aside and
whispered, "Who is this man smoking so arrogantly? Doesn't he
know this is a musician's house? I can't sing for him." But the
director wasn't stymied. Flicking ash on the floor has said,
"You will sing. Just name your price." Affronted, the Ustad
mentioned a staggering sum, "Rs 25000!" Asif immediately handed
him Rs 10000 and promised to pay the rest on the day of the
recording. Bade Ghulam Ali Khan would sing!
On the day of the recording, he was there at the Mehboob Studio
on the dot. Glancing around the studio he thundered, "Where is
the gadda, chaddar, takiya? I can't sing like this!" Within
minutes, the studio was transformed into a baithak. The Ustad
started in the gamak taan but it sounded too heavy for a romantic
scene. When Asif suggested something softer, Ustadji called for
pack-up. "Show me the scene first, only then I will sing," he
said before leaving the baithak.
Fortunately the scene had already been shot. It was edited over-
night and Bade Ghulam Ali Khan saw it the next morning. One look
and he was fida over Madhubala. "Anarkali kaafi khubsoorat hai.
Shehzada bhi kaafi khubsoorat hai. The scene's been photographed
well," he nodded approvingly. He rendered the number four times
and each time the film had to be rewound and played. At the end
of the marathon session, all he had to say was, "Take whatever
you want.. Just see that it's good.".
However, K. Asif was not finished with the Ustad yet. Salim was
returning home after 14 years. Jodhabhai sends word to Tansen to
sing in a raag which would make Salim forget the sound and fury
of the cannon blasts. And Tansen meant going back to Bade Ghulam
Ali Khan. Another Rs 25000! "Shubh din aayo re" was recorded.
And only 15 second segment from it was retained!
Almost 20 songs were recorded for Mughal-e-Azam at the price of
Rs 3000 each. Each one was a classic. And yet, almost ten of
them were left out, including "Husn ki baraat chali" sung by
Lata, Shamshad Begum and Mubarak Begum because the scene where
Salim comes to the boathouse to give away awards to the court
singers was deleted from the film.
So were "akele mujhe chhod ke kahan chale re" and "aai ishq yeh
duniyawale bekaar ki baaten karte hain". Another hummable
Shamshad Begum song "chala ja re nami chhalakte hua" was also
never heard again because Anarkali never did send her prince a
love letter in a floating lotus.
There were times when Naushad wondered why he'd taken on the pro-
ject. He almost hadn't the first time K.Asif had approached him.
"I was upstairs in my music room. The family had strict instruc-
tions that I was not to be disturbed," Naushad reminisces. "But
who could stop Asifsaab? He entered the room and announced, 'I'm
making Mughal-e-Azam.' Immersed in my work I didn't hear him.
He repeated himself. I didn't react. Then he threw a bundle of
notes on my harmonium. I was livid. I glared at him. He still
insisted that I should compose the music for his film."
Meanwhile Rs 75000 lay scattered in the room. When the servant
came up with a trayful of tea, he was horrified. He rushed to
the music director's begum with the news that currency notes were
scattered all over. She shrugged, "Maybe they're counterfiet."
He insisted that they were real. She finally gathered the notes
unnoticed by her husband.
Today Naushad talks of the Mughal-e-Azam experience fondly. "I
remember composing "pyar kiya to darna kya". We had been experi-
menting all day and rejected two lyrics. It was almost midnight
when I remembered a folk song of East UP, "prem kiya kya chori
kari hai". It didn't take Shakeelsaab long to convert that into
a beautiful ghazal. By the time, we had the song wrapped up it
was 6am".
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ajay P Nerurkar
: Here is part of an article on the making of Mughal-e-Aazam that
: was posted on RMIM by Satish Subramanian.
I forgot to mention that the article was written by Roshmila Mukherjee
for Filmfare magazine.
Ajay
surs...@my-deja.com
Ajay P Nerurkar <a...@cs.buffalo.edu> wrote:
>
> Here is part of an article on the making of Mughal-e-Aazam that
> was posted on RMIM by Satish Subramanian.
>
thanks. I had actually read that article on the internet before
posting my original question in hopes that it would give the lyrics of
the thumri. I still haven't heard back from Naqi Ali Khansahab. I
listened to the recording again from a dvd copy of the movie and i
think your suggestion is correct. Still, if anyone knows for sure by
some other means, that would be helpful. I don't want to document the
beautiful composition incorrectly.
thanks again.
sunit
surs...@my-deja.com
sub...@hotmail.com
> and let us know if they can throw any more light on the matter ?
>
> Ajay
>
also said that the lyrics were composed by Munawar Ali Khan and the
melodic composition was by Bade Ghulam Ali Khan. It was designed
specifically for the movie scene.
Thanks for your help.
Sunit
Ashok
>
>surs...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>: This is what I have so far....
>: prema jogana bana ke sundara piya aura chali
In most instances of the song, it sounds like he is singing
"prem jogan ban jaae", and only twice or so "prem jogan ban ke",
although the latter fits better. But then, shouldn't the
continuation be "su.ndarii" rather than "su.ndara"? i.e.,
. su.ndarii piyaa or chalii
I must say, though, trying to distinguish "ii" ending from an
"a" ending in a classical rendition is an unenviable task!
>: sajana se jo naina mile to mana ki pyasa bujhi
>: piya sanga sagari raina gujari....
>
>
>It is virtually impossible to tell for certain from the recording,
>but I think the last line is:
>
>pi sanga sagari raina gujaari, bairan bhor bhayi
It might be "sagara", an apabhra.nsha of "sakala". And technically
the verb should be "guzaarii". Is it common to substitute "j" for
the Persian "z" in such renditions?
>Why don't you try contacting the Bade Ghulam Ali clan at sub...@hotmail.com
>and let us know if they can throw any more light on the matter ?
>
>
>Ajay
Thanks, S.S. aka SS, for unearthing the lyricist's name, although I don't
see how that would help the practising musician (or even a scholarly
musicologist, unless an unscholarly P-statistician counts as one!).
An interesting tidbit about the song, told to me by Dr. Aziz, the resident
sholar of Hindi film music, based in Washington. I believe it emerged in
one of his long-distance conversations with Naushad.
It seems Naushad requested BGAK to change the raaga for the last portion of
the song from Sohoni to Darbari. BGAK initially baulked at the idea, but
relented upon Naushad's repeated insistence. And the reason for Naushad's
request: Naushad had hoped that discerning fans would appreciate the perfectly
fitting cue of using the times associated with raagas for the passage of time
in the course of the song, essentially hinting that the lovebirds had spent
the night together.
It appears Naushad was highly disappointed that there was no connoisseur who
was THAT discerning. I'll try to get Dr. Aziz to make that the topic of his
bhaashhaN at the next RMIM East Coast meet, if there's going to be one. In
the meantime, can the discerning connoisseurs on RMIC confirm that the last
portion of the song is indeed in Darbari?
Ashok
Ajay P Nerurkar
: although the latter fits better. But then, shouldn't the
: continuation be "su.ndarii" rather than "su.ndara"? i.e.,
My guess is that the "sundara" qualifies "piya".
: the verb should be "guzaarii". Is it common to substitute "j" for
: the Persian "z" in such renditions?
Hindi and its dialects lack the 'z' sound and 'j' is used instead.
: the last
: portion of the song is indeed in Darbari?
I don't think so. It is in Sohani throughout, unless you are referring to a
portion excised from the commonly available recording and only to be found in
the movie. Moreover, Darbari isn't an early morning raag anyway, so why would
it be chosen for this purpose ?
Ajay
surs...@my-deja.com
ADhar...@CrossWinds.Net (Ashok) wrote:
> In article <8lg70l$i0f$1...@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu>, Ajay P
Nerurkar writes...
> "prem jogan ban jaae", and only twice or so "prem jogan ban ke",
> continuation be "su.ndarii" rather than "su.ndara"? i.e.,
sundarii is a good one. The cover book in Munawar-Raza Ali Khans' 1989
album (which includes this thumri) has it written as sundarii. However,
the notes were NOT written by Munawar Ali himself and his rendition
clearly indicates sundara at least to my ears. Bade Ghulam Ali's also
indicates sundara in my recording from the dvd copy of the movie. I
know the dvd copy has included scenes and songs that were cut out in
the original release. The article that Ajay put up said that the
thumri was recorded four times by Bade Ghulam Ali so I'm wondering if
more than one rendition has been released in various forms. Can anyone
else confirm 'sundara' vs. 'sundari' in their version?
> It might be "sagara", an apabhra.nsha of "sakala". >
Again, in my version it is clearly sagarii....he lingers on the
syllable ii for a bit. I thought sagarii was modifying raina as
in "the whole night".
>
> Thanks, S.S. aka SS, for unearthing the lyricist's name, although I
don't
> see how that would help the practising musician (or even a scholarly
> musicologist, unless an unscholarly P-statistician counts as one!).
My original question was whether BGAK had composed the entire song. I
have read in several places that he has "written many thumris". I was
interested in knowing what that meant. Did he take lyrics from folk
songs and ascribe melodies to them? How did he decide what ragas to
ascribe to what lyrics? Could it be possible to take the lyrics of say
this composition and render it in another raga to completely change the
connotative force of the composition? Has he ever done that? Or did
he create melodies during his improvisation and then write lyrics for
them? Or maybe a combination of all of these? I think knowing
something about this might be beneficial to a practising musician at
least one who follows BGAK's style. Don't you? [Also, it seems that
you have begun to cross the line between criticism of ideas and
personal criticism. What happened? Did you run out of good questions?]
> An interesting tidbit about the song, told to me by Dr. Aziz, the
resident
> sholar of Hindi film music, based in Washington. I believe it
emerged in
> one of his long-distance conversations with Naushad.
>
> It seems Naushad requested BGAK to change the raaga for the last
portion of
> the song from Sohoni to Darbari. BGAK initially baulked at the idea,
but
> relented upon Naushad's repeated insistence. And the reason for
Naushad's
> request: Naushad had hoped that discerning fans would appreciate the
perfectly
> fitting cue of using the times associated with raagas for the passage
of time
> in the course of the song, essentially hinting that the lovebirds had
spent
> the night together.
>
> It appears Naushad was highly disappointed that there was no
connoisseur who
> was THAT discerning. I'll try to get Dr. Aziz to make that the topic
of his
> bhaashhaN at the next RMIM East Coast meet, if there's going to be
one. In
> the meantime, can the discerning connoisseurs on RMIC confirm that
the last
> portion of the song is indeed in Darbari?
>
The tidbit is indeed interesting especially since Darbari is not a
morning melody and the line at which the change occurs is "bairan bhor
bhaii". When I listened to it before i didn't pay attention to the
raga because i was trying to make out that line, but I remember there
was definitely a change at that point. The line and melodic phrase
isn't long enough for me to discern the precise change. Perhaps it was
Darbari. I'm sure someone here will know for sure.
sursagara
nareshde...@gmail.com
जोगन प्रीतम ओर चली,
प्रेम जोगन बन के ...।
सुंदरी पिया ऒर चली,
प्रेम जोगन बन के।
साजन सो जो नैन मिले,
तो मन की प्यास बुझी,
प्रेम जोगन बन के ।
पी संग सगरी रैन गुजारी,
बैरन भोर भई,
प्रेम जोगन बन के.....।"