Yaman vs Kalyan
Town Crier
>Are you sure it is labeled as Yaman? Kumar (sic) always called it Kalyan. I don't know why he used to insist on this.
... and, I am told, Vinayakbua Patwardhan would respond irritably at
the mention of Miyan Malhar - "koN miya.n?"
For a full analysis of such matters, see (if you have the time and
interest) - Eriko Kobayashi: "Hindustani Classical Music Reform
Movement and the Writing of History, 1900s to 1940s"
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/etd/d/2003/kobayashie032/kobayashie032.pdf
DG
A.
Wow! 300 pages!
Considering that I have a truck load of pending reading material I dont
know when I will get to this but going through it cursorily I noticed
it has tried to address quite a few controversies (I bet creating some
in the process). Would be great to see a 'healthy' discussion on some
of the salient features of this study in this newsgroup. And I know
people who are both passionate and patient enough to go through all of
it...
A.
manoha...@gmail.com
Lahedi Lin Lith go.
so no wonder Kon Miya.n.
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
abhikma...@gmail.com
That, alas, may have been lost to posterity. As to the circumstances
that led to the composition and performance, you can check out a
blow-by-blow account in Sheila Dhar's second volume, 'The Cooking of
Music' (if you haven't come across it already). Personally I found the
story somewhat distasteful; its tone was strongly suggestive of
mockery, in contrast to the recollection of harmless eccentricities and
foibles that characterised the peerless 'Here's Someone I'd Like You to
Meet'.
Incidentally, Permanent Black has issued both tomes in one volume,
entitled Raga'n Josh.
Abhik
Archisman
As far as I remember, Sheila Dhar mentions 'Lady Linlithgow' as raag
'adana'. As Abhik has rightly said, her first book is much more
enjoyable. The most enjoyable chapter (non-related to music) in the 2nd
book is her account of life in British Guyana & a discourse on the
Bhagvadgita in a temple there.
Regards-Archisman.
manoha...@gmail.com
one masterji composed God Save the King in Adana.
And Tiyya on: God.
God save the King
God God God
Read Vamanrao Deshpande's Eka Gayakacha Taleband.
MB
zekria
by NRG vs SRG, the rest of the movements are so flexible that there is no
distinction. I have learnet this from Professor Param Jeet Singh of
Patiala gharanna who is a professor in Indian classicl music.
sitar_vadak
Academy in Kolkata at Calcutta School of Music (Sunny Park), where I
observed a great debate among the renowned musicologists and musicians
on this topic. Smt. Kala Ramnath told that Yaman and Kalyan are the
same. But some "Buzurgs" present there denied her and gave their
own views.
They raised a valid question, that if Yaman and Kalyan are same then
why "Bhoopali, Chayanat, Gaud Sarang, Hameer, Hindol, Kamod, Kedar,
Malashri, Sudh Kalyan" and some other ragas (which have not every
notes of Yaman) are falling under "Kalyan" category?
There are some differences between Yaman and Kalyan.
In my view,
1.First of all Yaman is a raag and Kalyan is a Thaat (Source of raag).
2.Yaman is the "Ashray Raga" of Kalyan Thaat, but Yaman and Kalyan
are not same.
3.There is no common raga called "Kalyan".
4. Kalyan is the characteristics of a group of ragas.
5.Kalyan may be treated as an "Ang", which is present in a group of
ragas.
Yaman itself with a beautiful and unique application of "Sudhya
Madhyam" is known as "Yaman Kalyan".
We have scope to discuss on the basic characteristics of Kalyan Group.
I invite knowledgeable people to take part in this discussion.
ak2d...@yahoo.co.in
in yaman brings some Bilawal touch? I feel yamankalayan is not only
made of only yaman and kalyan.We cannot find any sudh madhyam either in
kalyan thhat or kalyan raga [ you can find a description of kalyan raga
in an old bengali book written by Shee Dhirendranath Bandopadhya, who
was a student of Pandit Radhika Prasad Gossain of Bishnupur
Gharana.Also u can find a dhrupad [ as I can remember ] in
Marifunnagat, published from Hathras UP.] on Kalyan raga.I feel there
is a small existence of Bilawal in Yamankalyan.Because this is a
established fact that sudh madhyam applied in that raga is not being
used as vivadi swar. I heard some old representatives of Agra gharana
saying yaman and yamankalyan are same.Because I heard of old
representatives of Agra gharana. While they sang the yaman bandish
'darshan deo shankar' they used to apply sudh madhyam at the last part
of the sthayee, in......''ghari pal chhina dina''
sitar_vadak
Madhyam" of Yaman Kalyan.
It depends on the direction from which you are seeing the raag.
Please highlight more on the raga "Kalyan" (if you have found any
description of that raga). Yaman and Yaman Kalyan are most common raga
today. Yes, that composition you mentioned is very famous and I have
heard it from not less than 5 musicians.
Regards.
Adi Nemlekar
complicating the nomenclature). But I don't believe adding it to yaman
makes it sound like bilawal because of its place in the raag. I've
mostly heard the shuddha madhyam appear in patterns of
G-M-G-R...although certain Kishori Amonkar renditions (her tarana in
yaman kalyan for example) uses the completely un-conventional R->M-G
which gives it a Gaud Sarang-like feel. I've heard a M->m meend on
ocassion which reminds me of the Blues more than anything else.
To add my two bits to this discussion, I've never heard a "Raag Kalyan"
rendition. My opinion (as one of you pointed out) is that Yaman is a
raag and Kalyan is a thaat (it may be a raag...I've just never come
across it), and thus they have a loose coupling but are certinaly not
the same. Something in the likeness Bhimpalasi and Kafi...or Darbari
and Asavari.
Aditya
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
Adi Nemlekar wrote:
> To add my two bits to this discussion, I've never heard a "Raag Kalyan"
> rendition. My opinion (as one of you pointed out) is that Yaman is a
> raag and Kalyan is a thaat (it may be a raag...I've just never come
> across it), and thus they have a loose coupling but are certinaly not
> the same. Something in the likeness Bhimpalasi and Kafi...or Darbari
> and Asavari.
The coupling is significantly tighter than this. There is a
significant, though not universal, contingent that recognizes these one
and the same. One strange (IMO) view is that of Manikbua Thakurdas, who
in his "Raag-Darshan" treats Yaman as a "shadav" raag skipping Pa
altogether but otherwise pretty much the same as what most call Yaman
(and some call Kalyan). Vasantrao Deshpande has recorded this raga as
"Raj Kalyan".
Sanjeev
ak2d...@yahoo.co.in
sudh ma gets used to make yaman to yaman kalyan? where u can find a
sudh madhyam in kalyan or yaman? And also we can find G-M-G-R in
Bilawal. Consult Sarfarda Bilawal.
Also it is one of my questions that what is meant by Kalyan Aang. What
are the main features of this Kalyan Aang?
I expect and invite more persons to take part into all musical
discussions including the article The role of a Vivadi Swar in a raga.
Where are the all nosy people ? why they r not coming?
MAUSAM
1. Use of teevra madhyam (common accepted notion)..
2. Use of the phrase Pa Re Ga, in a specific way such that Re is
approached from Ga (heard in a lec-dem by Dinkar Kaikini)
3. Use of phrase Ni Re Ga (Dagars sing Adbhut Kalyan with notes Ni Re Ga
Dha Ni Sa'. And thats how they justify its a kalyan)
In general under the modern accepted nomenclature, I believe Kalyan is a
thaat and yaman is a raag. I also feel that the naming yaman kalyan is
an oddity.
Mausam
doo...@dropuiuc.edu
> I have heard three definitions of the kalyan ang
>
> 1. Use of teevra madhyam (common accepted notion)..
> 2. Use of the phrase Pa Re Ga, in a specific way such that Re is
> approached from Ga (heard in a lec-dem by Dinkar Kaikini)
> 3. Use of phrase Ni Re Ga (Dagars sing Adbhut Kalyan with notes Ni Re Ga
> Dha Ni Sa'. And thats how they justify its a kalyan)
For what its worth, 2 above may be worth discussing further. At the ITC SRA
gathering where Kala presented her ideas on Kalyan, some vidwans objected
vehemently to her conception. In the ensuing discussion, "P->R" was
suggested as being a lakshana of the kalyan "ang" whence the classification
of Chhayanat with its "RGMPMGMR,PR,S" locution as unmistakably Kalayn ang.
cheers,
r.
ak2d...@yahoo.co.in
To Mausam
Yeah I feel u r right on your first and second points. But I have some
sort od hesitations to agree with your third point.I feel
instead of Ni Re Ga it should be Sa Re Ga. Ni Re Ga can be featured
as a charecter of Yaman Kalyan. The other very special thing I have
realised about the Kalyan aang ragas that this Kalyan aang gets always
featured at the junction of poorvang and uttarang. Thats why your first
two points are more important to express kalyan aang than the third
one.
Datta
ak2d...@yahoo.co.in
Then whats about yamankalyan, bhoopkalyan , sudhkalyan , and other
kalyan aang ragas where P R G are used ? I think if you start analyse
the ragas Chhayanat and Gaud Sarang you will get your answer yourself.
Why PR are used instead of P R G.
Datta.
MAUSAM
hmmm... I am confused. If I recall correctly the way Dinkarji demonstrated
the P->R G, was that there wasn't a big meend from P->R. In fact P was
left, and the R was started from the G (very much like in yaman). the G->R
glide was also not an elongated one.
Whereas, in chhayanat, P->R is a much longer meend and R starts from P; as
opposed to a short one from G in yaman.
Mausam
Chetan Vinchhi
"Sanjeev Ramabhadran" <sanjeev.r...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132335568....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> One strange (IMO) view is that of Manikbua Thakurdas, who
> in his "Raag-Darshan" treats Yaman as a "shadav" raag skipping Pa
> altogether but otherwise pretty much the same as what most call Yaman
> (and some call Kalyan). Vasantrao Deshpande has recorded this raga as
> "Raj Kalyan".
Manikbua clearly mentions that this definition of Yaman
is found in medieval texts. He alludes to the sparing
use of P in the raag, adding that in modern times the
use of P has grown beyond its intended use.
In the same book, he also describes a *different* raag
named Kalyan, which is a sampoorna raag. It has S as its
graha swara so that R and P are prominent thus setting it
apart from Yaman (G and N are accorded more respect there).
Yaman Kalyan is a joD raaga obtained from the union of
the above two raags. Shuddha M is *not* needed to
establish Yaman Kalyan. However, he says that it appears
organically out of the interplay of the Yaman and Kalyan
melodic gestures. Its presence in the raag is incidental
but adds to the aesthetic value of the overall melody.
However, it is not clear whether shuddha M is used to
set YK apart from the modern Yaman (where R-P sangati
has gained prominence).
C
ps - Manikbua does refer to the Raj Kalyan nomenclature
of the ancient version of Yaman (either in Raag Darshan
or in Sangeet Sushma).
ChristianAMR
Maybe Ajoy Ch sings Kalyan differently from his Yaman : Use of SRG besides that of `NRG ( didn´t count what came more often ... ) ; but also use of shud ma .
Maybe some other differences at the uttrang .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhDb_QAGaDQ - Raga Kalyan (Shrine) Live at the Queen's Theatre, London