brindavana saranga

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Pramila N Srinivasan

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Feb 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/15/96
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Another one in Brindavana Saranga is "Kamalaptha kula"
by Thyagaraja.

I like this one better than Sri Rangapura vihara :-)

Pramila

Archana S. Prasad

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Feb 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/17/96
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In article <Pine.SGI.3.91.96021...@umbc10.umbc.edu> Vijay Ganesh Hariharan <vha...@gl.umbc.edu> writes:

>> Pramila N Srinivasan (pra...@sample.ecn.purdue.edu) wrote:
>>
>> : Another one in Brindavana Saranga is "Kamalaptha kula"


>> : by Thyagaraja.
>>
>> : I like this one better than Sri Rangapura vihara :-)
>>
>> : Pramila

>Two more, "Soundara Rajam Aashraye" and "Soundara Pura vehaare".
>Vijay G Hariharan
>vha...@umbc.edu

Is raga "Vrindavani Sarang" in hindustani classical the same as the one you
mention?

Thanks.
Archana.

Sanjeev Ramabhadran

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Feb 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/17/96
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In article <sharma.16.9...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> shar...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Archana S. Prasad) writes:
>Is raga "Vrindavani Sarang" in hindustani classical the same as the one you
>mention?
>
No. The raga of Kamalaaptakula and Sri Rangapura is definitely not the
same as Vrindavani Saarang. However, if you get a chance, listen to
Balamurali's thillana, from his "Saraguna, Mahadeva Sutam, etc.." LP
with MSG and TVG on violin and mridangam. That thillana, is listed as
being in raga Brindavani (no Sarang attached). In fact, THAT is pretty
much the same as Vrindavani Sarang...

Sanjeev Ramabhadran


L Ramakrishnan

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Feb 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/20/96
to sanj...@tucson.princeton.edu
I think bRndAvana sArangA and bRndAvanI are used interchangably.

three more songs -

svAminAthEna samrakShitO'ham - supposedly M. dIkShitar - Ad tAla
kaliyuga varadan - Adi
tillAna "tA-ta dhIm ta dhIm" - Madurai Krishnan - Adi

L Ramakrishnan

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Feb 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/20/96
to Sanjeev Ramabhadran, L Ramakrishnan
On Tue, 20 Feb 1996, Sanjeev Ramabhadran wrote:

>What is the scale of Brindavana Saranga? Because I think Brindavani is S
>R2 M1 P N3 S / S N2 P M1 R2 S (according to Balamurali's thillana), which
>is the Hindustani Brindavani Saarang (for all intents and purposes). I
>seem to remember Kamalaaptakula and Sri Rangapura using some different
>notes. I don't remember Kamalaaptakula ever taking N3.

Based on the Dikshitar kRtis I have listened to, the scale seems to go
something like

S R2 M1 P N* S / S N2 P M R2 (G2) S,

where N* is a characteristic note produced by a kampita gamaka oscillating
between N2 and S. It is often followed by an orikkai to S via N2. The G2
is more subtle, but clearly discerned in both rangapura and saundara-rAjam
(examine "tumburu nuta shrIkaNTham" in the latter). If N3 occurs at all,
it is only in an anusvara context.

kamalApta kula is not too different from what has been described above,
though I'm not sure if the G occurs in it.

S R2 M1 P N3 S / S N2 P M1 R2 S is called bRndAvana sArangA in some
circles... Often Thooran's popular song kaliyuga varadan is rendered this
way/. While MS sings bRndAvana sArangA of rangapura vihAra the way I
described it earlier, she does adopt the latter formulation in one of the
aNNamAchArya kRtis popularized by her. Interestingly, an album of African
music by Ali Farka Toure features this particular scale quite prominently,
as well as some more madhyamAvatI-like ones.

I'm not sure if these differences map onto a distinction between bRndAvanI
and bRndAvana sAranga. I'm inclined to think they do not.


----------------------------------
L (Ramki) Ramakrishnan
ra...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~ramakris
-----------------------------------

Ramasubramanian Ramakrishnan

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Feb 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/21/96
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Here is a posting by Srini Pichumani related to this thread..

Subu

=========================

Article: 13457 of rec.music.indian.classical
Path: mozo.cc.purdue.edu!purdue!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!quip.eecs.umich.edu!srini
From: sr...@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Srini Pichumani)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Re: On the nishadae of rAgA brindAvani
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 95 10:46:35 EST
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept.
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Message-ID: <3tu6cr$j...@zip.eecs.umich.edu>
References: <3tffdc$l...@soc2.pop.psu.edu> <3thkni$8...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3thrum$l...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> <3ti1e7$4...@soc2.pop.psu.edu>
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In article <3ti1e7$4...@soc2.pop.psu.edu>, Arijit Mahalanabis
<ari...@math.psu.edu> wrote:
>In article <3thrum$l...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> rama...@ecn.purdue.edu
(Ramasubramanian Ramakrishnan) writes:
>>
>>Is it true that the nishadas in carnatic "brindAvana sArangA" is used
>>freely too? I used to think it takes tivra nishada in the aarohanam and
>>komal nishada in the avarohanam. In a concert by Unnikirshnan in his
>>recent tour, he used a malhArish or bahArish "n N s" (Ni2 Ni3 Sa) which
>>I had never heard in brindAvana sArangA. The accompanying violinsist
>>(MA Sundaresan) also continued to stress this usage.
>>Is this type of prayogam allowed in the hindustani "brindAvani"
>> or whatever the equivalent is?
>>
>>Subu
>
>I would guess that the answer to this question is mired in the same troubles
>faced in looking at Jog's use of the two Gandhars. From my own limited
>experience, I believe that n N S is not part of the usual swaroop of
>Brindavani. I have, at least, not come across this phrase in any rendition.
>Also, I believe that originally, Brindavani, as rendered in Carnatic music
>only contained Kaisiki Nishadha, which would make it structurally, very
>similar to Madhyamavati (in fact, identical, if we make the mistake of
>going only by aarohana and avrohana). I believe the difference lay in the
>emphasis of the uttaranga sancharas in Brindavani. Any further comments on
>this by more knowledgable folk will be much appreciated. At any rate,
>if one looks at "Shreeranga Puravihara" for example, I think it becomes
>clear that Kakali Nishadha did not play a role in the raga, at least at
>the time of its composition.

Arijit, you are right about this issue of N2/N3 in rAga
brndAvani. brndAvani is sung/played with the N2 both
in the ArohaNam and the avarohaNam. The intonation of
the N however is higher in pitch in a few spots, in
passing ... justifying its classification as a "bhAShAnga"
rAga, under the 22nd rAgAnga rAga shrI, in the Dikshitar
tradition. This is how Subbarama Dikshitar classifies
BrndAvani in his magnus opus Sangita Sampradaya Pradarshini,
where he gives the grand and majestic composition "saundara
rAjam As'raye" of Muttuswami Dikshitar in this rAga in
notation.

Identifying the higher intonation of the N with the svara
N3 makes for simplicity, but also results in much unnecessary
explicitness, and a change in the ArohaNam. This is precisely
what has occured in various light pieces in this rAga where
there is a liberal use of N3.

This definitely takes away quite a bit of the majesty
of the rAga and contributes to a very flitting mood, IMO.
And is very similar to what has happened to Khamas, where
again there is a liberal use of N3...

-Srini.

ps: Additionally, there is an alpa or light use of G2 in this
rAga in phrases like R2 G2 R2, S G2 G2 ... if you have heard
"rangapura vihAra", one spot where you may hear this is the
phrase "vAmAnka gata sItA" corresponding to the word gata ...
and in the phrase "ambudhi garva nigraham" in the word garva,
in saundara rAjam Ashraye...

Here again, there has been some change in this century.
The Dikshitar scholar Justice T.L.Venkatarama Iyer writes,
somewhat apologetically, that the G2 use may even be avoided
without much detriment to rAga bhAva.

My guess is that TLV opined so, to avoid idle criticism of
the Dikshitar tradition wrt this rAga, since there is no
doubt from Subbarama Dikshitar's book that the G2 has a
legitimate place...

pps: Yes, as of late, there has been a further twist to
this N2/N3 issue with a "N2 N3 S" being thrown in - which
makes it even more jarring.

Balaji

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Feb 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/23/96
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In article 9...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu, L Ramakrishnan <ramakr...@mail.utexas.edu> () writes:
>I think bRndAvana sArangA and bRndAvanI are used interchangably.
>
Not really... I think bRndAvani has the same ArOhana-avarOhana as
madhyamAvati - with the variation being just in the gamaka prayOgams. It
is not a bhAshAnga like bRndAvana sArangA (doesn't take kAkali nishAdam).
However, they are pretty close to be confused. This is what I remember from
a lec-dem by Prof. S R Janakiraman.

balaji/...
g.ba...@hqs.mid.gmeds.com

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sambasiva...@gmail.com

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Apr 6, 2019, 6:16:41 AM4/6/19
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Abhijit M

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Jul 13, 2021, 10:46:34 AM7/13/21
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To my ears:
Brindavani (Carnatic) = Brindavani Sarang (Hindustani)
Brindavani Saranga (Carnatic) = Lanka Dahan Sarang (Hindustani)
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