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Q: Aroha/Avaroha of Lalita Gouri

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kan...@hotmail.com

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Nov 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/3/98
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Appreciate if someone could post Aroha/Avaroha of

Lalita,
Gouri ( is there such a raga?)
and Lalita Gouri.

Thanks,

Anand Kulkarni

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

ashl...@my-dejanews.com

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Nov 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/3/98
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Ragam Lalitha (Mela 15 - Mayamalavagowla)
S R1 G3 M1 D2 N3 S | S N3 D2 M1 G3 R1 S
__________________________________________________
In article <71ndg8$k63$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,

Rajan P. Parrikar

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Nov 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/4/98
to
(this posting may appear twice)

In article <71ndg8$k63$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com> kan...@hotmail.com writes:
>Appreciate if someone could post Aroha/Avaroha of
>
> Lalita,
> Gouri ( is there such a raga?)
> and Lalita Gouri.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Anand Kulkarni


The following is largely in response to an earlier private request
for details of Lalita Gouri. This is as good an occasion as any.
Those with no stomach for boring and tedious details are advised
to skip.

Throughout the following discussion M=shuddha madhyam
and m=tivra madhyam. In other words, all shuddha swaras
are in caps, vikrit swars in lower-case. The ' and "
following a swara indicate mandra and madhya saptak
affiliations, respectively.


1) Raga Lalit

The following A/A set may be stated:

S, N' r G M, m M G, m d N S"::S" N d m M G, m G r S

Not much can be purchased from the A/A of Lalit owing
to its vakra nature and the peculiar use of the two
madhyams that makes for the lalitAnga signature. The rAga
has been discussed before on this forum a few times.


2) Raga Gouri

Refer to the archives since this too has been discussed
at length before. The trouble with any attempt to state
the A/A of Gouri is that several rAgas go by that name.
In the main, they can be grouped under the bhairav and
poorvi thAT. There are further sub-divisions such as the
Shree-anga Gouri, Poorvi-anga Gouri and so on. Bhatkhande
has produced a rather tedious disquisition on the several
Gouri variants extant in his time in his work "Hindustani
Sangeet Paddhati."

Most of the 'Gouri's are considered to be kshudra rAgas,
i.e. not very 'serious' or profound. For an example of the
Bhairav thAT Gouri, see for instance the one by the living
legend His Horniness Mr Jasraj.


3) Raga Lalita-Gouri

In this prakAr, a measure of lalitAnga (via the two madhyams) is
introduced into the parent Gouri. Again, the A/A set is of little
value. No convergence of opinion exists on the precise treatment
but there are noteworthy regions of overlap. We shall briefly
survey interpretations of three contemporary master musicians
namely, Bhimsen Joshi, Mallikarjun Mansur, and the ex-maestro of
sarod (an ancient Indic lute), the (naked) Emperor of San Rafael,
Mr Ali A. Khan.

There are a few tone sentences common to almost all 'Gouri's,
a sure pointer to that genus. Prime among them is the treatment
of the nishAd, typically in the mandra saptak:
S, N'SrN'N'SN', N' d'N', N' N' S.

The gandhAr and pancham provide important dwelling locales and have
the roles of nyAsa bahutva along with the nishAd. Both the gandhAr
and pancham are approached for nyAsa typically via - M, G (G)r G
and N, d N N d P, respectively. Another point of note is that these
are considered to be poorvAnga-pradhAn rAgas.

Three case-studies are now considered. All of them couple lalitAnga
to the poorvi-anga Gouri. It is hard to convey the subtle meenDs
and glides via the typed word. Needless to say, there is no substitute
for a careful listening to get the gestalt.

A word on punctuation - a comma indicates an elongation or a
pause on the swara, a blank space denotes a short gap, swara-clusters
without gaps signify a quick movement, "uuu" a meenD.


(1) Ali Akbar Khan

Mr Khan's treatment is predominantly in the mandra-saptak. His
is the finest Lalita-Gouri there is, both for its conception,
shAstraic adherance, precision and beauty of execution. A lower
shade of the shuddha nishAd is employed to good effect. He commences
by elucidating the Gouri phrases via:

S, S N', N', N'S'rN'S, N', N' N', d' N' d' P', P d' N' d' N', S

Then comes a foray deep into mandra territory, and the lalitAnga
is introduced via an exquisite meenD. The manner of its execution
has to be heard to be believed.

N' d' P', P', (r')G', G'M'm' G', P', m' (P')d' m' M', G' (G')r' G',
uuuuuuuu uuuu

Next he moves up, homewards towards the madhya Sa. Notice the Shree-
like S-P meenD.

r' S', S' P', P', (m')P' (m')d' (d')N' (N')d' P', N' N' S
uuuu

The above is only a coup d'oeil, nothing more. Listen to his
early recordings in the rAga.


(2) Mallikarjun Mansur

Mallikarjun sings the "preetam saiyyAN daras dikhAjA" composition
in vilambit teentAl. The details here differs from Mr Khan's but
there is similarity of spirit. The lalitAnga is presented upfront
and there is nothing subtle about it (this is not meant in a pejorative
sense). The Pooriya Dhanashree spectre looms large but is never
allowed expression thanks to carefully chosen phrasing. The importance
accorded the mandra nishAd and the madhya gandhAr is in line with
standard Gouritual. Mallikarjun was never known for his mandra
saptak work and most of his development takes place in the madhya
saptak. There are forays up into the tAra saptak too. Mr Khan's sarod
does not suffer from these limitations of voice and hence his L-Gouri
retains all its splendour.

Consider a sample movement:

S, N', N', N' r G M, (d)mM, G, G P, mGrGm, PmGrG, r S, N', d' N' r' G
uuuu


It opens with the Gouri-esque treatment of the mandra nishAd,
then quickly moves into the lalitAnga territory, followed by a
bibhAs-like G P, the next two are recurring movements leading to
a nyAsa on G; these help keep Pooriya Dhanashree at bay. Mallikarjun
also employs an occasional Shree-like r P or S P (so does Mr Khan)
and that is the only peek allowed Shree.

The tAnas are formulated with an eye on retaining the action
around the nishAd and gandhAr. There can be no straight up
and down sapAT tAnas in Gouri; they zigzag and keep bouncing
off the nishAd as in PNNdNNmdNN or from the gandhAr and pancham.
It is a great pleasure to see this master think up combinations
(actually, they must have been burnt in his memory through
relentless tAlim and the act of impromptu delivery is not as
impromptu as one imagines. The same is true for all the masters).

Also see Kesarbai's brief recording in this rAga.


(3) Bhimsen Joshi

His treatment shares many features with Mallikarjuns'. Appropriate
respect is accorded both the mandra nishAd and the madhya gandhAr.
There is a peculiar cluster around the mandra nishAd that distinguishes
Bhimsen - N'SrN'SrN'SrN'. The attack on the gandhAr and pancham follows
the patterns suggested earlier. As per the dictates of the rAga,
the tAnas are controlled.

The bandish in vilambit roopak is "khelana Aye kunj bihAri."
The words are are promptly chewed up in the same manner as
he would his paan. In the recording of a 1985 programme that
I recently heard he was tentative and unsure, but I have
heard him serve a spectacular L-Gouri circa 1988.


En passant, it is to be noted that there are other types of Lalita
Gouri too. For instance, the Gwalior-wallAhs sing a bhairav-thAT
version.

Warm regards,

r

Rajan P. Parrikar

unread,
Nov 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/4/98
to
>Appreciate if someone could post Aroha/Avaroha of
>
> Lalita,
> Gouri ( is there such a raga?)
> and Lalita Gouri.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Anand Kulkarni


Note: The following is largely a response to an earlier private
request for details of Lalita Gouri. The current rejoinder offers
as good an occasion as any. Those with no stomach for boring,
tedious detail are advised to skip.

Throughout the following discussion M=shuddha madhyam
and m=tivra madhyam. In other words, all shuddha swaras
are in caps, vikrit swars in lower-case.


1) Raga Lalit


2) Raga Gouri


3) Raga Lalita-Gouri

but there are noteworthy regions of overlap. We shall quickly


survey interpretations of three contemporary master musicians
namely, Bhimsen Joshi, Mallikarjun Mansur, and the ex-maestro of
sarod (an ancient Indic lute), the (naked) Emperor of San Rafael,
Mr Ali A. Khan.

There are a few tone sentences common to almost all 'Gouri's,
a sure pointer to that genus. Prime among them is the treatment
of the nishAd, typically in the mandra saptak:
S, N'SrN'N'SN', N' d'N', N' N' S.

The gandhAr and pancham provide important dwelling locales and have
the roles of nyAsa bahutva along with the nishAd. Both the gandhAr
and pancham are approached for nyAsa typically via - M, G (G)r G
and N, d N N d P, respectively. Another point of note is that these

are supposed to be poorvAnga-pradhAn rAgas.

Three case-studies are now considered. All of them couple lalitAnga

to the poorvi-anga Gouri. Needless to say, there is no substitute
for a careful listening to get the gestalt. The subtleties of
meenD and glides are hard to convey via the typed word.

A word on punctuation - a comma indicates an elongation or a
pause on the swara, a blank space denotes a short gap, swara-clusters
without gaps signify a quick movement, "uuu" a meenD.


(1) Ali Akbar Khan

Mr Khan's treatment figures predominantly in the mandra-saptak. His

is the finest Lalita-Gouri there is, both for its conception,

shAstraic adherance, precision and beauty of execution. By a long
shot. A lower shade of the shuddha nishAd is employed to good effect.

He commences by elucidating the Gouri phrases via:

S, S N', N', N'S'rN'S, N', N' N', d' N' d' P', P d' N' d' N', S

Then comes a foray deep into mandra territory, and the lalitAnga
is introduced via an exquisite meenD. The manner of its execution
has to be heard to be believed.

N' d' P', P', (r')G', G'M'm' G', P', m' (P')d' m' M', G' (G')r' G',
uuuuuuuu uuuu

Next he moves up, homewards towards the madhya Sa. Notice the Shree-
like S-P meenD.

r' S', S' P', P', (m')P' (m')d' (d')N' (N')d' P', N' N' S
uuuu

The above is only a coup d'oeil, nothing more. Listen to his
early recordings in the rAga.


(2) Mallikarjun Mansur

Mallikarjun sings the "preetam saiyyAN daras dikhAjA" composition

in vilambit teentAl. The details here differ from Mr Khan's but


there is similarity of spirit. The lalitAnga is presented upfront
and there is nothing subtle about it (this is not meant in a pejorative
sense). The Pooriya Dhanashree spectre looms large but is never
allowed expression thanks to carefully chosen phrasing. The importance
accorded the mandra nishAd and the madhya gandhAr is in line with
standard Gouritual. Mallikarjun was never known for his mandra
saptak work and most of his development takes place in the madhya

region. There are forays up into the tAra saptak too. Mr Khan's sarod

does not suffer from these limitations of voice and hence his L-Gouri
retains all its splendour.

Consider a sample movement:

S, N', N', N' r G M, (d)mM, G, G P, mGrGm, PmGrG, r S, N', d' N' r' G
uuuu


It opens with the Gouri-esque treatment of the mandra nishAd,
then quickly moves into the lalitAnga territory, followed by a
bibhAs-like G P, the next two are recurring movements leading to
a nyAsa on G; these help keep Pooriya Dhanashree at bay. Mallikarjun
also employs an occasional Shree-like r P or S P (so does Mr Khan)
and that is the only peek allowed Shree.

The tAnas are formulated with an eye on retaining the action
around the nishAd and gandhAr. There can be no straight up
and down sapAT tAnas in Gouri; they zigzag and keep bouncing
off the nishAd as in PNNdNNmdNN or from the gandhAr and pancham.
It is a great pleasure to see this master think up combinations

(actually, they must have been burnt into his memory through


relentless tAlim and the act of impromptu delivery is not as

impromptu as one imagines with these masters).

kishore...@rocketmail.com

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Nov 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/4/98
to

Mayamaalava Gowla has got Suddha Daivatham (D1). Was this a type ? Could
someone post it again ?

-- Kishore Meduri.

In article <71nuq5$dni$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,


ashl...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Ragam Lalitha (Mela 15 - Mayamalavagowla)
> S R1 G3 M1 D2 N3 S | S N3 D2 M1 G3 R1 S
> __________________________________________________
> In article <71ndg8$k63$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> kan...@hotmail.com wrote:

> > Appreciate if someone could post Aroha/Avaroha of
> >
> > Lalita,
> > Gouri ( is there such a raga?)
> > and Lalita Gouri.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Anand Kulkarni
> >
>

AAkolkar

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Nov 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/5/98
to
Thanks for the info, Rajan.

In addition to the renditions discussed by Rajan, there is a beautiful
Lalita-Gauri by Kesarabai (not the 3 minute recording). Her range of voice and
'pukka' sur makes it absolute beuty.

The recording was released around 20-30 years back and was very poorly
marketted. These recordings were discussed on this forum earlier.

Happy listening,

Ajit

RSriram

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Nov 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/5/98
to
Mayamalavagowla is definitely
S R1 G3 M1 D1 N3 S

sur...@ibm.net

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Nov 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/5/98
to
was the original question regarding Lalitha (in Carnatic) or Lalit (in
Hindusthani). Clearly the two are very different.

suresh

B Krishnamoorthy

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Nov 16, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/16/98
to
Or was it about Jayalalitha, the ragam created by Kunnakudi in honour of Dr.
Puratchi Thalaivi :-) ?

sur...@ibm.net wrote in message <3641CD97...@ibm.net>...

skal...@my-dejanews.com

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Nov 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/19/98
to
In article <71ndg8$k63$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,

kan...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Appreciate if someone could post Aroha/Avaroha of
>
> Lalita,
> Gouri ( is there such a raga?)
> and Lalita Gouri.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Anand Kulkarni
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>

Lalita Gauri, (and yes the 'a' in gauri instead of 'o' is intentional, is not
a raga to be learnt or understood on the basis of arohan/avrohan. There are
two or three variations of the raga depending on the gharanas and the
varients of the the raga lalit and Gauri chosen to make this combined melody.
The most common one today is the Jaipur-Atrauli version found in the bandish
"Preetam Sainyan Daras Dikha ja Mera To Jiya Jaye." This version uses the N r
G m M m phrase of Lalit very clearly, while establishing Gauri (Purvi thaat
version) with r G - r - S S; but there is a Gwalior gharan version also which
uses the Bhairav thaat Gauri -- can't recall the song just now but it has the
words "Maar Kataar" or something similar.

S.Kalidas

ChristianAMR

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Feb 5, 2023, 1:33:04 PM2/5/23
to

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9833MwXD5-g -- Vilayat Hussain ( 1895 - 1962 ) " Pran Piya " - Lalita Gauri .
Drut bandish that includes mandra Ni and Lalit-ang ( not too ephemeral like in other bandishes ) . Difficult to find similar Druts ...

Some drut bandishes start in the uttrang and their downward movement reminds of me Basant .

ChristianAMR

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Feb 8, 2023, 1:40:58 PM2/8/23
to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyD0Pof_lSU - Krishna Bhat - vilmbt - drut - " Piya tose lagi " ?
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