Shree & Pooriya-Dhanashree
Chidambaram Narayanan
I would like to know the similarities and differences between
these two ragas (Both Hindustani). Listening to both of them, I feel
they are very similar and would like to know exactly in what way they
differ. From my cassette liner notes I see that both are from the Poorvi
That and their vadi and samvadi notes are also the same.
On a different note, can the experts also comment on Raga Kala Shree.
thanks
chidu...
sanj...@my-dejanews.com
ch...@nas.nasa.gov (Chidambaram Narayanan) wrote:
> I would like to know the similarities and differences between
> these two ragas (Both Hindustani). Listening to both of them, I feel
> they are very similar and would like to know exactly in what way they
> differ. From my cassette liner notes I see that both are from the Poorvi
> That and their vadi and samvadi notes are also the same.
who wrote that cassette liner? while the first statement is true, the second
cannot be. i believe it's re-pa for shree, and ga-ni for p. dhanashree
(pooriya has ga-ni, and p. dhanashree does exhibit some similar movement).
they are from the same "thaat", but i would say the similarity ends there. the
chalans establish completely different characters. the bare bones are
approximately as follows:
p. dhanashree - N' r G m P m d N S" || S" N d P m G r S
shree - N' S r, m P, N S" || r" N d P, m d m G r, G r S
the landscape of the latter is filled with glides between re and pa nowhere
else to be found. rajan parrikar had posted an extensive piece on shree a
while back, which has more (better-punctuated) samples of the raga.
> On a different note, can the experts also comment on Raga Kala Shree.
isn't this a composition of pandit bhimsen joshi? it's either kalavati + shree
or kalavati + bageshri, don't remember which.
not an expert,
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
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I suggest listening to a recording by Kumar Gandharva. This LP/casette by
HMV has Shree-Kalyan, Shree, Kalyan on one side and Puriya Dhanashri,
Gauri-Basanta and Sohani on the other.
This recording is the best "comparison" of the ragas in Q.
Abhinav
In article <7d8npq$a9i$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
WARVIJ
>isn't this a composition of pandit bhimsen joshi?
>it's either kalavati + shree
>or kalavati + bageshri,
Actually kalavati and rageshri.
I've heard Bhimsenji sing it many times; it's lovely. Ramesh
Mishra performed a different version of this a couple of years
ago, but I thought his version was biased more towards a
simpler Janasamohini-type treatment.
WS
achakr...@hampshire.edu
>
> I would like to know the similarities and differences between
> these two ragas (Both Hindustani). Listening to both of them, I feel
> they are very similar and would like to know exactly in what way they
> differ. From my cassette liner notes I see that both are from the Poorvi
> That and their vadi and samvadi notes are also the same.
>
>
>
> chidu...
>
Hi Chidu :)
*Remember me dude? How ya doin'?* Shree and Puriya Dhanashree are
distinguished primarily by their challan. Of course, both these ragas have
been dished out by many titans in many forms that dwell in people's minds,
but let me not go there.
Raga Shree
Arohana: S r(ati-komal) m P N S'
Avarohana: S' N d P m d d G r, r----p,(m), r g r S
It is characterised by long meends between r & m, r & P, P & N, m & N and
sometimes between r and N. A meeend (slow) between r and N must be followed
up by an immediate touch on the komal dhaivat. Some of the pakad phrases of
Raga Shree are: r m P, S r m P, P d m G r, m P N, (P) r G r S, P (S) N r N d
p (the last one is not an exclusively shree phrase). Pancham and Shuddha
Nishad are the primary vishranti notes.
Raga Puriya Dhanashree
Arohana: S N. d. N. r G m d N S'
Avarohana: S' N d P m G r S
Puriya Dhanasree also involves many meends many of which are vakra. Main
pakad phrases (in my talim - don't know about others reading this) are: d. N.
r G, G m d G m G (r S), N. r G m d G m G --- N r S (touching SA via ri is
usually to be avoided because of its close semblance to Puriya phrasing), G m
d P, d m P G, G m d N, N r'G' (khatka) r' S.....
Distinguishing features:
Approaching Nishad - In Shree, Ni is approached eiter from r, S or P and
NEVER from dha (forgive me for saying this - but except by one sarod titan
who deems it right to play a d--N meend in Shree). Dhaivat - Puriya
Dhanashree - G m d, r G m d. dha can be approached from PA in Puriya
Dhanashree, but it is viewed as a near-liberty in dhrupadiya Alap. GA is used
in the descending patterns ONLY in Shree except when in (r G r S) and in
vakra phrases (to articulate P r G r S). The list of difference in terms of
shruti applications is exhaustive and most of us do not know these in theory.
Hope this is useful.
Arnab
Seshadri Kumar
>
> >>On a different note, can the experts also comment on Raga Kala Shree.
>
>
> >it's either kalavati + shree
> >or kalavati + bageshri,
>
> Actually kalavati and rageshri.
>
> I've heard Bhimsenji sing it many times; it's lovely. Ramesh
Yes, it is very nice. Are there any other compositions
in this rAg other than the two pieces that BJ sings
in that one EMI recording ? ("dhan dhan dhan mangal gAvUn"
in vilambit and "dhan dhan bhAg suhAg tErO" in drut) And
has this rAg been well accepted by musicians from other gharAnAs?
As an aside, I have always enjoyed BJ's treatment of mixed
ragas ... he actually managed to give kalAshRI its own
character in this recording ... I also liked his hindOL-bahAr
on the Music Today bahAr rAgas series ... in the beginning
the hindOL and bahAr are very distinct (if I remember right,
the sthayi is entirely in hindOL and the bahAr makes its
appearance only in the antara) but later he manages to fuse
them in a masterly way.
> Mishra performed a different version of this a couple of years
> ago, but I thought his version was biased more towards a
> simpler Janasamohini-type treatment.
>
> WS
Kumar
--
Seshadri Kumar
Ph.D. Candidate, Chemical and Fuels Engineering
University of Utah, Salt Lake City, UT 84102
email: sku...@crsim.utah.edu
phone: (801) 585-1235
Chidambaram Narayanan
regarding the liner notes, let me go back and confirm what i said.
Both the recordings that i listened to were of Kumar Gandharva.
I see generally that in North Indian classical music, the arohana
and avarohana are much more subjective (if i may say so) as compared
to the Karnataka paddhati. To me Puriya Dhanashri definitely sounds
very much like the Karnataka ragam Kamavardhini (Pantuvarali).
But the closest Karnataka ragam for Shree (to me) also seems like
Kamavardhini. Hence the confusion.
I definitely agree that the presentation of Shree by KG has more
long meends than Puriya Dhanashri. But given my Karnataka sangeetam
background I feel a similarity in the moods. I will try and concentrate
more. Unfortunately the many technical details are not very useful
to me as I cant really picture the music by looking at the note patterns.
Thanks for your responses..
chidu...
sanj...@my-dejanews.com
ch...@nas.nasa.gov (Chidambaram Narayanan) wrote:
> hi,
>
> regarding the liner notes, let me go back and confirm what i said.
> Both the recordings that i listened to were of Kumar Gandharva.
> I see generally that in North Indian classical music, the arohana
> and avarohana are much more subjective (if i may say so) as compared
> to the Karnataka paddhati. To me Puriya Dhanashri definitely sounds
> very much like the Karnataka ragam Kamavardhini (Pantuvarali).
> But the closest Karnataka ragam for Shree (to me) also seems like
> Kamavardhini.
Scalically, you are right on both counts. But I wonder if Kamavardhini has
any janya ragams that exhibit the slightly crooked patterns of P.D.
(unlikely), or the very crooked patterns of Shri (even more unlikely).
Sanjeev Ramabhadran