How to distinguish between R3 and R2
V. Chandramouli
|> Dear friends
|> I am facing following problem. I hope somebody will enlighten me.
|> I am studying Natti Ragam. The song is maha ganapathim --
|> Aro : S R3 G2 M1 P N2 S Ava : S N2 P M1 G2 M1 R2 S
|>
|> In this ragam R3 as well as R2 is present. My question is is there any
|> general rule which clearly says when I should use R3 and when I should use R2.
|> For example let us take following line.
|>
|> M , P , , , M , M G P M R , , ,
|> ^
|> S , N , S , , , R S S R G , M,
|> ^ ^
|>
|> I have been singing R3 for all R's here. Somehow I am getting impression
|> that somewhere I should use R2 too. I want to know in general for any ragam
|> if more that one variety of same swara is present how to distinguish between
|> them. Any pointers or information would be highly appreciated. Are there any
|> www sites for carnatic classical music?.
|>
|> Thanks in advance
|> Ravindra
|>
|>
-----------------
I thought Nattai used R3 and G3 in the Arohanam and no G3 in the avarohnam.
I don't think it uses R2 or G2 at any place. After all, G2's position has been
taken up by the R3.
--Chandramouli
Ravindra Kulkarni
L Ramakrishnan
vcha...@dip.eecs.umich.edu writes:
> I thought Nattai used R3 and G3 in the Arohanam and no G3 in the avarohnam.
> I don't think it uses R2 or G2 at any place. After all, G2's position has
been
> taken up by the R3.
>
> --Chandramouli
nATa : S R3 G3 M1 P D3 N3 S / S N3 P M1 G3 M1 R3 S [ or SNPMRS]
no R2 or G2, as Chandramouli points out
Ravindra Kulkarni
In article <39pagc$i...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>, L Ramakrishnan <ra...@moloch.zo.utexas.edu> writes...
I guess it is time to clear my basics. As far as my knowledge goes we have
following swaras only.
S R1 R2 G1 G2 M1 M2 P D1 D2 N1 N2 S
Am I right ?
Now the so called R3 is equivalent to G1
G3 is equivalent to M1
D3 is equivalent to N1
N3 is equivalent to S'
>nATa : S R3 G3 M1 P D3 N3 S / S N3 P M1 G3 M1 R3 S [ or SNPMRS]
eqt: S G1 M1 M1 P N1 S' S / S S' P M1 M1 M1 G1 S
What is wrong ?.
Are there any ragas where R2 as well as R3 is present. Or for that matter
any swara with komal as well as tivra being present.
If so how do I distinguish between them ?
cheers
Ravindra
V. Chandramouli
|> Hellow there,
|> I guess it is time to clear my basics. As far as my knowledge goes we have
|> following swaras only.
|> S R1 R2 G1 G2 M1 M2 P D1 D2 N1 N2 S
|>
|> Am I right ?
|>
|> Now the so called R3 is equivalent to G1
|> G3 is equivalent to M1
|> D3 is equivalent to N1
|> N3 is equivalent to S'
|>
|> >nATa : S R3 G3 M1 P D3 N3 S / S N3 P M1 G3 M1 R3 S [ or SNPMRS]
|> eqt: S G1 M1 M1 P N1 S' S / S S' P M1 M1 M1 G1 S
|>
|> What is wrong ?.
|> Are there any ragas where R2 as well as R3 is present. Or for that matter
|> any swara with komal as well as tivra being present.
|>
|> If so how do I distinguish between them ?
|>
|> cheers
|> Ravindra
|>
The problem is you are mixing the notation for Carnatic and Hindustani, as I see
it. In Carnatic, you don't call a swara a tivra or komal.
The are 4 notes between S and M and two possible positions. Call the lower one
R and the higher freq. note G. Therefore, no. of ways of doing it:
C(4,2)=4!/(2!2!)=6.
Exactly same argument holds in the purvanga for D and N to give 6 more. These
two are independent of each other. So total possibilities = 6X6= 36.
Now M can have 2 possibilities, independently. So total no. of melas= 72.
A mela, is what is called a That I think, in Hindustani.
Of course, this scheme can be extended, in a theoretical sense, to include both
M1 and M2 in one scale.
According to Hindustani convention, yes, both komal and shudh (which you seem to
call tivra) can be present. For eg, S R1 R2 M P D1 N3 S. But the R2 will be
written as G1 and not R2. This is the scale of the raga Ganamoorthy.
I hope this clarifies things. For a more detailed exposition, please refer to
any good primer on Carnatic music.
By the way, I think it is not 100 % right to say we have only these 12 notes,
in Carnatic music. Even the "same" note, N3, may appear in different flavors
depending on the raga. One reason why Carnatic music is so hard to play on
equally tempered instruments.
--Chandramouli
clem...@bcvms.bc.edu
> |> What is wrong ?.
> |> Are there any ragas where R2 as well as R3 is present. Or for that matter
> |> any swara with komal as well as tivra being present.
> |>
> |> If so how do I distinguish between them
The avarohana of sindhi-bhairavi contains both komal and shuddha notes
of the same degree:
.
S R D R D P M G R G R S
- - - - -
As you can see, we have both D and D-komal, as well as R and R-komal.
This is particularly annoying to me as a sitar player, because there are no
frets for R-komal or D-komal; one usually slides the shuddha fret into that
position when playing a raga which includes them, but since there are both
notes in the above, one must play the D-komal by pulling the string at P and
the R-komal by pulling the string at S.
Joshua Alley-Clement
Boston College