Meaning of "baraja rahi"

[Havanur]

Can the gunijana throw some light on the literal meaning of this
famous Sampoorna Malkauns bandish? I have come across more than one
version - does antara start with "gyana saras" or "gyana taras"?

All comments and explanations are appreciated in advance.

Havanur

[C Parthapratim]

You forgot to attach the Bandish

[vinay pande]

baraj is from varjit , so baraj rahe is mana kar rahe hain,
approximately. the rest of the bandish as sung by mallikarjun is, the
odd word aside ( dheet langarva, vaahu des, etc) incomprehensible
gibberish. i will try listening to some other recordings again when i
get back to the US, but i doubt they will make much more sense.
"jaipur" gharana types have come from south of the godavari for much
of the last 75 years or so. it is scarcely a surprise that the bandish
has been reduced to misal pav in their hands.

v

[Havanur]

On Oct 24, 9:05 am, C Parthapratim <c.parthapra...@gmail.com>
complained:

> You forgot to attach the Bandish

He who knoweth the meaning knoweth not the words?

Baraj rahi wahun (des) yeri woh to dheet langar chhaila chikaro.
Gyana taras (saras) aiso khat nat, ali ri woh to nand kumar (dular).


The words in brackets are alternate versions or additions.

Havanur

[vinay pande]

thanks
but still gibberish

[vinay pande]

the kesarbai recording is not very clear either, but thats in large
part due to the recording quality. she does sing many more of the
words than mallikarjun ( who sings 6 words in every permutation and
combination). i am trying to reconstruct what the original must have
been before it got massacred in kolhapur and bombay. its a gorgeous
bandish ( music wise) so well worth trying to unscramble.

vinay

[C Parthapratim]

> He who knoweth the meaning knoweth not the words?

Meaning comes there not before knowing the words, for sure. And I must say even after knowing which bandish you are talking about, it wasn't of much help. VP's observations are interesting, but I think 'Baraja' with a clearly audible B is hardly from Varjit, which is in turn - "omitted/excluded" (literally). To me, Baraja might have a little more to do with Braj(a); and in that case it might be a description of the way Nand Kumar being treated in Braj and (speculated) that the way itself is a clue to some deep inner meaning/intent/Gyana.

[vinay]

On Oct 26, 11:48 am, C Parthapratim <c.parthapra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > He who knoweth the meaning knoweth not the words?
>
> Meaning comes there not before knowing the words, for sure. And I must say even after knowing which bandish you are talking about, it wasn't of much help. VP's observations are interesting, but I think 'Baraja' with a clearly audible B is hardly from Varjit, which is in turn - "omitted/excluded" (literally). To me, Baraja might have a little more to do with Braj(a); and in that case it might be a description of the way Nand Kumar being treated in Braj and (speculated) that the way itself is a clue to some deep inner meaning/intent/Gyana.

i agree that brij or braj makes more sense in the context of the other
words. but braj becomes biraj in poetry and not baraj. i guess i
should allow for the possibility that even the first word of the
bandish gets mangled beyond recognition by the so-called jaipur
gharana, but that would require a level of cynicism even i dont often
aspire to or achieve.

vinay

[vinay pande]

barajna is 'mana karna'.a commonly used expression in the north. it is
entirely (and not "hardly") from varjit. other than braj being
linked to nand ke dular and dheet langarwa it makes no sense in the
context of what can be deciphered of the first line. baraj makes just
a bit more sense, but not much more. bottom line: the bandish as sung
is 90% gibberish.
vinay

[Vivekanand P V]

It appears baraj and braj are colloquial terms for vraj (locality of
Brindavan). I assume 'Baraj' may also mean a resident of braj (an
indirect reference to Krishna?), while barajori ought to be feminine
(Gopikas?).

It makes more sense with Gyan Saras to me; though I'm not sure if it
were a nom de plume or a collocation. The former looks formidable, and
latter, less likely.

V

[vinay pande]

On Nov 9, 9:09 pm, Vivekanand P V <vivekanan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 24, 10:16 am, Havanur <havanur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Can the gunijana throw some light on the literal meaning of this
> > famous Sampoorna Malkauns bandish? I have come across more than one
> > version - does antara start with "gyana saras" or "gyana taras"?
>
> > All comments and explanations are appreciated in advance.
>
> > Havanur
>

> It appearsbarajand braj are colloquial terms for vraj (locality of

> Brindavan). I assume 'Baraj' may also mean a resident of braj (an
> indirect reference to Krishna?), while barajori ought to be feminine
> (Gopikas?).
>
> It makes more sense with Gyan Saras to me; though I'm not sure if it
> were a nom de plume or a collocation. The former looks formidable, and
> latter, less likely.
>
> V

> It appears baraj and braj are colloquial terms for vraj ...

braj yes, baraj NOT. if you do not believe a native hindi speaker why
not look up platts?

so here is platts...

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/search3dsal?dbname=platts&query=brij&matchtype=exact&display=utf8

it lists brij, braj, vrij. even birj. but not "baraj"

then look up barjan or barajna

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/search3dsal?dbname=platts&query=barajna&matchtype=exact&display=utf8

and it means what i have been saying it means here for the last month
or more----"-forbid"

saras is a word more commonly used in gujarati, certainly never in
colloquial hindi. gyaan saras would be a highly unusual collocation,
unlike say gyaan sagar; and of course gyaan saras is a takhallus i
have never heard of.

regrettably, and as i have said before, the bandish as sung is
gibberish.

it may well have been the case ( since even kesarbai sings gibberish
lyrics) that the confusion may have started in pre kolhapur gharana
days. ( why is it called jaipur gharana?) the old man appears to have
had a penchant for passing off old dhrupad bandishes as khayal
bandishes unique to his family. many dhrupad bandishes were lost by
the 19th century; this may have been one of them, but it doesn't sound
likely. or it could just be nonsense verse.

vinay

[vinay]

On Nov 9, 9:09 pm, Vivekanand P V <vivekanan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Oct 24, 10:16 am, Havanur <havanur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Can the gunijana throw some light on the literal meaning of this
> > famous Sampoorna Malkauns bandish? I have come across more than one
> > version - does antara start with "gyana saras" or "gyana taras"?
>
> > All comments and explanations are appreciated in advance.
>
> > Havanur
>

> It appearsbarajand braj are colloquial terms for vraj (locality of

> Brindavan). I assume 'Baraj' may also mean a resident of braj (an
> indirect reference to Krishna?), while barajori ought to be feminine
> (Gopikas?).
>
> It makes more sense with Gyan Saras to me; though I'm not sure if it
> were a nom de plume or a collocation. The former looks formidable, and
> latter, less likely.
>
> V

and, for god's sake, barjori is not a female braj-wasi! even if
vocabulary fails you, surely it must make sense in the context? mose
karat barjori..what do you suppose krishna is up to?

[C Parthapratim]

LOL!

[Abubakr]

On 11/12/2011 5:10 PM, C Parthapratim wrote:
> LOL!

Seconded!

[vinay]

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 12:26:16 AM UTC-5, rajkumar.s...@gmail.com wrote:

> OK. Let the arguments rest to Peace.
> If someone posts the complete Bandish, I shall give a word-to-word meaning as well the contextual meaning of the whole Bandish.
> The reply may take some time if I have to research on some word, but come it shall for sure.
> Anyone requiring urgent attention can contact me @
> rajkumar.s...@gmail.com.
>
> -regards to all contributors.
> One request, please do not de-mean the rich but now diminishing heritage of Indian Classical Music by using words like "gibberish". P L E A S E !!

gibberish is gibberish. if they cant understand or pronounce the languages of north india perhaps they should sing in their own languages. have you ever heard opera singers sing nonsense in italian or german, even if they are of english or swedish or spanish origin?

[a.b.m...@gmail.com]

On Monday, October 24, 2011 at 10:46:01 AM UTC+5:30, Havanur wrote:

What is the meaning of Chaila Chikaro
and Vahoom

[mml....@gmail.com]

ढीठ लंगरुवा = imprudent lad
chhail chhikaar means chhailaa ladkaa

2 lines are as following :-
बरज राही बरजौं नहिं मानत
आखिर जात अहीर !

Gopi says about lad Krishna --
I am forbidding / stopping him (baraj rahi); however, that over-insistent (Krishna) does not agree.
U know, his caste (jaat) is AHIIR . i.e. milkman!

[mml....@gmail.com]

बरज रही, बरजौं नहिं मानत!
आखिर जात अहीर !!

[Dilip Sarwate]

I would say that ढीठ is better translated as "impudent" (one who is not bashful about making advances, cheeky) rather than "imprudent" (not wise or sensible). But it might just be a typo and the translator actually meant to write impudent....

[mml....@gmail.com]

I agree with Mr Sarwate.

[mml....@gmail.com]

[ChristianAMR]

Some very interesting observations about bandish vocabulary ( mostly Braj ) .
I won´t comment about the personality of great singers , but it´s very curious to read how the inability ( or lack of interest ? ) to understand all the words in a bandish has lead singers from other regions to render ( maybe ) uncorrect versions .