O Basanti. What Raag (Basant Mukhari?)
FT Rathore
Anyone knows what raag the beautiful song "O Basanti Pavan" belongs too.
Is it basant mukhari. I have also seen it mentioned in context with
Shivranjani.
Can anyone post little info about that raag (notes, vadi, samvadi, etc).
Thanks
FT
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Before you buy.
Surinder P. Singh
FT Rathore wrote in message <8uf428$g68$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>Hi
>Anyone knows what raag the beautiful song "O Basanti Pavan" belongs too.
>
>Is it basant mukhari. I have also seen it mentioned in context with
>Shivranjani.
The web site http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1364/songs.html
mentions this song to be in Basant Mukhari. A beatiful song in rupak.
-S
Ashok
>
>Hi
>Anyone knows what raag the beautiful song "O Basanti Pavan" belongs too.
>
>Is it basant mukhari. I have also seen it mentioned in context with
>Shivranjani.
>
>
>Thanks
>FT
I have read it designated as pilu.
Ashok
Ajay P Nerurkar
: Anyone knows what raag the beautiful song "O Basanti Pavan" belongs too.
Although it uses the Basant Mukhari scale (S r G M P d n), I wouldn't say
that it is set to that raag because I don't see a Bhairav ang in this song.
(Note: M = shuddha Ma).
This delectable composition of Shankar-Jaikishan is a tight slap in the
face of those who refuse to acknowledge or tend to diminish the duo's
contribution to Hindi film music.
Ajay
Surinder P. Singh
Ajay P Nerurkar wrote in message
<8uhegj$678$1...@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu>...
>FT Rathore <rath...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>: Anyone knows what raag the beautiful song "O Basanti Pavan" belongs too.
>
>
>Although it uses the Basant Mukhari scale (S r G M P d n), I wouldn't say
>that it is set to that raag because I don't see a Bhairav ang in this song.
>(Note: M = shuddha Ma).
My reading is a little different. If we use the beginning "O.." as komal G,
then it uses the following scale:
S R g M P d N (and a little shudh G in the antrA). (M = shudh M)
I don't know about the Basant Mukhari scale though. Is there a Bhairav ang
in this Raaga?
>This delectable composition of Shankar-Jaikishan is a tight slap in the
>face of those who refuse to acknowledge or tend to diminish the duo's
>contribution to Hindi film music.
Long time ago I saw an old Raj Kapoor/SJ film and the tune of this song was
playing in the background. This film was before the "Jis desh me ganga ...".
So Shankar-Jaikishen had this tune in their minds for a long time and
finally put it as a film song only later.
-SS
>Ajay
Ajay P Nerurkar
: My reading is a little different. If we use the beginning "O.." as komal G,
: then it uses the following scale:
: S R g M P d N (and a little shudh G in the antrA). (M = shudh M)
This is the scale of Kirwaani which you get by assuming as your Sa,
the Ma of Basant Mukhari. So if you place the "O.." on komal dha,
the song is in the Basant Mukhari scale.
: I don't know about the Basant Mukhari scale though. Is there a Bhairav ang
: in this Raaga?
That's what I have found in the classical renditions of this raag
I've heard. I recommend Malini Rajurkar's excellent presentation.
: Long time ago I saw an old Raj Kapoor/SJ film and the tune of this song was
: playing in the background. This film was before the "Jis desh me ganga ...".
Was it Awaara ?
Ajay
Surinder P. Singh
Ajay P Nerurkar wrote in message
>: Long time ago I saw an old Raj Kapoor/SJ film and the tune of this song
was
>: playing in the background. This film was before the "Jis desh me ganga
...".
>
>
>Was it Awaara ?
My memory is failing me, but I think it might have been Aag. I am pretty
sure it was not Awaara.
-SS
Surinder P. Singh
>
>: My reading is a little different. If we use the beginning "O.." as komal
G,
>: then it uses the following scale:
>
>: S R g M P d N (and a little shudh G in the antrA). (M = shudh M)
>
>
>This is the scale of Kirwaani which you get by assuming as your Sa,
>the Ma of Basant Mukhari. So if you place the "O.." on komal dha,
>the song is in the Basant Mukhari scale.
I have always wondered if there is some sure shot, or at least better, way
of identifying what the Sa of a song is. In another discussion there was
question of the Sa of "Kahee Deep Jaley kahi ...." (bees saal baad) which
would make the song either Pooriya+Marwa or Shivranjani. Now the issue is
Kirwaani vs. Basant Mukhari.
-SS
naniwadekar
Ajay P Nerurkar <a...@cs.buffalo.edu> wrote:
> The beautiful song "O Basanti Pavan Paagal"
>
> This delectable composition of Shankar-Jaikishan is a tight slap
> in the face of those who refuse to acknowledge or tend to diminish
> the duo's contribution to Hindi film music.
>
>
Hello there :
what is the occasion for this 'tight slap' outburst, Ajay ?
I am rubbing my cheek, as I think this is a boring song. "rasik
balma" is worse. This is really an rmim post. But here goes.
I used to think that the Lata solos "bachpan ki mahobat
ko" (baiju-bawra), "O Basanti" (JDMGBH) and "kahi deep jale, kahi
dil" (Bees Saal Baad) are all haunting songs. Sanjeev recently
provided technical background for "kahi deep jale". Then I lost
symapthy for all 3 songs. Now I again think that "bachpan ki"
is a great song. But not the other two. There is something
fraudulent about them.
That said, I do not tend to diminish S-J's contribution to
film music. I just look elsewhere for their great songs aka tight
slaps. 'sapno.n ki suhani duniya me.n' , 'kare badra tu na jaa',
'jab jab phol khile' (all from Shikast), 'hum tuzse mahobat karke
sanam' (Awara), 'ab to aajaao balam' and 'taqdeer ka shikawa kaun
kare' (both Poonam solos by Lata), 'dil gaya dard raha seene
me.n' (Patrani).
There are some music-related and some non-music-related reasons
for SJ bashing, I guess. That is a subject for another post
on another forum.
- nani
Ashok
says...
>
>FT Rathore <rath...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>: Anyone knows what raag the beautiful song "O Basanti Pavan" belongs too.
>
>
>Although it uses the Basant Mukhari scale (S r G M P d n), I wouldn't say
>that it is set to that raag because I don't see a Bhairav ang in this song.
>(Note: M = shuddha Ma).
>
>face of those who refuse to acknowledge or tend to diminish the duo's
>contribution to Hindi film music.
>
>Ajay
What is this? A dissension in the ranks of Naushad bhaktas?
I did mark you as open-minded when you agreed with me some
years ago that "ye shaam ki tanahaaiyaa.n" was a great
composition. But here I can only say ruefully: How the
mighty have fallen!
Other than Lata's unwavering pitch at insane highs, I find
the song just about par for the course.
Ashok
Ajay P Nerurkar
: what is the occasion for this 'tight slap' outburst, Ajay ?
Just my way of keeping in touch with (pun intended) Mr. A. Dhareshwar.
Ajay
Ajay P Nerurkar
: I have always wondered if there is some sure shot, or at least better, way
: of identifying what the Sa of a song is.
One way is to try to figure out what the taanpura or the tabla is
tuned to. In the song under consideration the latter instrument is
prominently heard and may tell us which scale was intended by SJ.
Ajay
ani...@my-deja.com
song
> was
> >: playing in the background. This film was before the "Jis desh me
ganga
> ...".
> >
> >
> >Was it Awaara ?
>
> My memory is failing me, but I think it might have been Aag. I am
pretty
> sure it was not Awaara.
>
> -SS
'aag' was composed by Ram Ganguli. if this tune was used in 'aag'
then it is more likely that 'o basanti' is a Raj Kapoor composition
and not SJ's.
--
Cheers,
Anil P. Hingorani
Harish Kini
FT Rathore <rath...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> Hi
> Anyone knows what raag the beautiful song "O Basanti Pavan" belongs
too.
>
> Shivranjani.
>
> Can anyone post little info about that raag (notes, vadi, samvadi,
etc).
>
> Thanks
> FT
>
May I quote from the book Theory of Indian Ragas (Ram Avtar).
Basant Mukhari is a mishra mel of Bhairavi and Bhairava and known only
to perhaps a few experts. In its purva ang (1st half) it is Bhairava
and in its uttar ang (2nd half) it is Bhairavi. It is quite obscure. It
is so beautiful that it should be more popularised.
Jati - Sampoorna
Vadi - Dha
Samvadi - Re
Time - Morning
Aroh - S, komal R, komal G, shuddha M, P, komal D, komal N, S
Avroh - Exact reverse.
There might be a typo in the book. Should not Ga be shuddha if the
first half is like Bhairava?
Is the song Yeh hava, yeh raat, yeh chandni (Talat in Sajjad's Sangdil)
based on the same raga?
Harish Kini
main_to...@my-deja.com
that was indeed useful info and thanks harish. i have often wondered if
the composers have ragas in mind while they compose tunes? i mean do
they decide on a rag first (depending on the mood their song is supposed
to fit into) and then start working? as it is, every tune composed by
just anybody who might know nothing abt ragas, can be classified as
belonging to a particular thaat and then a particular rag. wouldnt it be
more natural, or instinctive to be simply guided by emotions, than the
grammatical rules of a rag? and let things fall in place automatically?
hindi film music is essentially pop after all.
what i am interested in knowing is how the mds of 40's to 70's worked?
does anyone know of instances when someone (producer/md/director)
insisted on a particular rag for a particular song for a particular
mood.
singing.
In article <8up6go$3bf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
il_kh...@my-deja.com
I recollect that there was some discussion about
this song two years back, where the "majority
opinion" was in favour of Basant Mukhri. Similarity
to Bhairav, Ahir Bhairav and Charukeshi was cited.
Another song in this raag :
KahaaN le chale ho, batado musaafir,
sitaroN se aage yeh kaisa jahaaN hai
(Durgesh Nandini)
Another song composed by Shankar-Jaikishan that
can perhaps be classified under this raag is :
Andhe jahaaN ke andhe raste,
JaayeN to jaayeN kahaaN...
(Patita)
The similarity to Mishra Pilu is also obvious, if
we hum songs like :
Main ne shaayad tumheN pehle bhi kahiN dekha hai
and
Maayoos to hooN waade se tire...
(Both from "Barsaat ki Raat").
A friend has wondered whether Music Directors decide
upon a raag first and then compose a song that would
fit that. I have a feeling that, in most cases, it
doesn't quite work that way. Exceptions would be
movies/musical scores/situations which are intrinsically
raag-related e.g. Baiju Bawra, Basant Bahar, Baazuband,
Tansen, Hamdard, Meri Soorat Teri Ankhen, Goonj Uthi
Shehnai etc. In other cases, it would seem that the
relationship between a PARTICULAR raag and a song
composition is rather incidental. Just my opinion.
Maybe our friends can start a new thread about this !
Afzal
vijay...@my-deja.com
il_kh...@my-deja.com wrote:
> A friend has wondered whether Music Directors decide
> upon a raag first and then compose a song that would
> fit that. I have a feeling that, in most cases, it
> doesn't quite work that way. Exceptions would be
> movies/musical scores/situations which are intrinsically
> raag-related e.g. Baiju Bawra, Basant Bahar, Baazuband,
> Tansen, Hamdard, Meri Soorat Teri Ankhen, Goonj Uthi
> Shehnai etc. In other cases, it would seem that the
> relationship between a PARTICULAR raag and a song
> composition is rather incidental. Just my opinion.
> Maybe our friends can start a new thread about this !
>
> Afzal
conscious adherence to raga. Naushad said that all the music was
composed with attention to the time of the day at which the song was
supposed to be sung, using only ragas appropriate for that time of the
day. I don't recall if that was true for both the songs and the
background music, or only for the background music. He was quite upset
that he had to *point* it out and no one appreciated that on his/her
own.
Vijay
il_kh...@my-deja.com
In fact, I wanted to include "Mughal-e-Azam" in the
list of films cited as examples above.
However, I am not quite sure that Naushad is justified
in feeling aggrieved. The film was released in 1960.
At that time, the media attention on different aspects
of film-making was not as extensive as now. Viewers,
too, were less "knowledgeable" about these things.
Even the music directors, by and large, did not give
close attention to background music. Besides, other
factors too contributed to viewere/critics paying less
than the degree of attention expected by the maestro,
e.g. the vast canvas of the film, comparatively high-
flown Urdu, great performances by the principal stars,
etc. I think the viewers were so overwhelmed by these
facets of the film that very little attention, if any,
was paid by them to the choice of raags in songs/back-
ground music etc.
BTW, at the risk of incurring the displeasure, or even
the wrath, of some RMIMers, I would say that the film's
music was not all that memorable. Just because a song
is composed in a raag does not ipso facto make that
song great or memorable. Although camparisons are
said to be odious, I would say that I found the
musical score in "Anarkali" much more "likeable" than
that of "Mughal-e-Azam". If it is "blasphemy", so
be it. Spark for another flame-war or at least a
new thread ?
Afzal
naniwadekar
il_kh...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Although camparisons are
> said to be odious, I would say that I found the
> musical score in "Anarkali" much more "likeable" than
> that of "Mughal-e-Azam". If it is "blasphemy", so be it.
>
Naushad gang joins the fray, let me be the blasphemer from CR
camp. I like "Mughal-e-Azam" far more than "Anarkali".
Naushad devotees will express their wrath / displeasure. I am
expressing my simple disagreement.
> Just because a song is composed in a raag does not ipso facto
> make that song great or memorable.
>
Absolutely. If anybody has too romantic a view of ICM, he would
do well to write that sentence every morning 100 times until he is
rid of that ridiculous notion.
A cheej / song is mostly set to appropriate raag. Thus, Todi is
not used for a lori. Malkauns is not used for a morning-time song
like 'aayi bhor suhani'. For my part, I would like MDs to be
occasionally blasphemous on this score. Asha's marathi
bhav-geet 'Prabhati sur nabhii rangatii' uses
evening-time Yaman for a morning-time song.
Like most Asha - Vasant Prabhu songs, this is a gem. I have never
heard the most traditional musician complain about Prabhu's choice
of Yaman for this song.
But 'rain ka sapna' uses Lalit. 'Tarwa ginat ginat' uses Vibhas.
So with songs. Why does Naushad expect credit for it ? If he had
been given credit for it, he would have found something else
to complain about.
- nani
imppio
"naniwadekar" <nan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8usadq$na8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Asha's marathi
> bhav-geet 'Prabhati sur nabhii rangatii' uses
> evening-time Yaman for a morning-time song.
> Like most Asha - Vasant Prabhu songs, this is a gem. I have never heard
the most traditional musician complain about Prabhu's choice of Yaman for
this song.
********************************
It sounds like Puriya-kalyaN to me. Of course that is still evening melody!
Please check out.
cheers,
imppio
Surinder P. Singh
naniwadekar wrote in message <8ui4m6$vb7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>I used to think that the Lata solos "bachpan ki mahobat
>ko" (baiju-bawra), "O Basanti" (JDMGBH) and "kahi deep jale, kahi
>dil" (Bees Saal Baad) are all haunting songs. Sanjeev recently
>provided technical background for "kahi deep jale". Then I lost
>symapthy for all 3 songs. Now I again think that "bachpan ki"
>is a great song. But not the other two. There is something
>fraudulent about them.
Nani, what do you mean there is something fraudulent?
-SS