aahiri ragam
Eswar Josyula
This mellow song in Aahiri ragam, misrachaapu talam of Tyagaraja
is avoided by singers for some reason not clear to me.
Can somebody explain?
sompaina manasu to impaina bangaru
gampala to manchi champakamulu
challa re ramachandruni paipulu
- - - -
- - - -
enna rani janana maranamulu lekunda - -
perhaps due to the words janana maranamulu?
--
Eswar Josyula
jos...@dnaco.com
Krishnan N Thodla
I remember M.S. Subbulakshmi singing this; I had a cassette back in India
with this song, though I don't have it now.
Krishnan
Eswar Josyula wrote in message <6d48b2$hrt$1...@news4.ispnews.com>...
Vasudevan Vellambi
Eswar Josyula <jos...@dnaco.net> wrote in article
<6d48b2$hrt$1...@news4.ispnews.com>...
>
> This mellow song in Aahiri ragam, misrachaapu talam of Tyagaraja
> is avoided by singers for some reason not clear to me.
> Can somebody explain?
>
> sompaina manasu to impaina bangaru
> gampala to manchi champakamulu
>
> challa re ramachandruni paipulu
>
> - - - -
> - - - -
>
> enna rani janana maranamulu lekunda - -
>
> perhaps due to the words janana maranamulu?
>
> --
> Eswar Josyula
> jos...@dnaco.com
>
I have heard the Hyderabad brothers sing it in 1996 Music season in
Chennai.
I think this is included in one of their many cassettes too.
Vasu.
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Krishna Kunchithapadam
Eswar Josyula <jos...@dnaco.net> writes:
:
: This mellow song in Aahiri ragam, misrachaapu talam of Tyagaraja
: is avoided by singers for some reason not clear to me.
: Can somebody explain?
The reason why a certain song in Ahiri may seem have been avoided
by singers is because the raga Ahiri itself has some bad "vibes"
allegedly associated with it.
Teachers generally refuse to teach this raga (and kritis in it)
to students because of the belief that doing so would deprive
them of food.
I guess we just have to wait for an activist music teacher about
to go on a "fast unto death" to learn Ahiri.
--Krishna
Eswar Josyula
Krishna Kunchithapadam <kri...@cabernet.cs.wisc.edu> wrote:
: Eswar Josyula <jos...@dnaco.net> writes:
: :
: : This mellow song in Aahiri ragam, misrachaapu talam of Tyagaraja
: : is avoided by singers for some reason not clear to me.
: : Can somebody explain?
: :
: The reason why a certain song in Ahiri may seem have been avoided
: by singers is because the raga Ahiri itself has some bad "vibes"
: allegedly associated with it.
What does bad "vibes" mean?
: Teachers generally refuse to teach this raga (and kritis in it)
: to students because of the belief that doing so would deprive
: them of food.
Are there cases that are known to have happened?
: I guess we just have to wait for an activist music teacher about
: to go on a "fast unto death" to learn Ahiri.
: --Krishna
--
Eswar Josyula
jos...@dnaco.com
Avittam
Dear Josyulu,
There is a story from the past in the olden days when
there were no modern modes of transportation, the music teachers used to walk
from village to village to teach music
and they used to carry their lunch with them. They won't
keep their food on the ground. One day when one music
teacher went from his village to the next village to teach music, he left in
the early morning with his lunch. He stopped near a bamboo bush to rest.
Instead of keeping on the ground he tied his lunch to a bamboo that was bent in
the morning. He began to sing Ahiri and he forgot about
time and surroundings and did not realize that it was well
past noon and the bamboo that was bent in the morning
was fully erect and the lunch tied to it was beyond his reach
resulting in deprivation of food for him. This is entrenched
in the minds of teachers and a few who sing this raga do not
teach this to others. Mostly it is believed that it is self taught. This I
have learnt through some of my vidwan friends when I grew up in India.
Rangarajan A.V.
Eswar Josyula
Avittam <avi...@aol.com> wrote:
: Dear Josyulu,
: Rangarajan A.V.
Thanks for the reponse. The story is quite interestingIf there, indeed
was something wrong with the raga Tyagaraja knowingly composed. It is
not one of the vinta (vichitra) ragas of his time. Since the raga existed
prior to him, I wonder if the belief in the raga was the same before him
as it is now. Has Puranadara Daasa composed in this raga?
Om the topic of people avoiding a particular song there is an interesting
story in Prof. Sambamoorthy's book on the song in Mukahri, chintisstunnade
yamudu. Song talks of yama being worried that since people were leading
virtous lives in Tyagaraja's period he (yama) was not sure about who
he would take back to the yama loka. yama worried about being laid
off because there was not work for him. On this idea the song chintisstunnade
yamudu was composed but people will not sing because they are afraid to
utter the word yamudu.
--
Eswar Josyula
jos...@dnaco.com
Padmaja Verma
Krishna Kunchithapadam wrote:
>
> Eswar Josyula <jos...@dnaco.net> writes:
> :
> : This mellow song in Aahiri ragam, misrachaapu talam of Tyagaraja
> : is avoided by singers for some reason not clear to me.
> : Can somebody explain?
> :
>
> The reason why a certain song in Ahiri may seem have been avoided
> by singers is because the raga Ahiri itself has some bad "vibes"
> allegedly associated with it.
>
> to students because of the belief that doing so would deprive
> them of food.
>
> to go on a "fast unto death" to learn Ahiri.
>
> --Krishna
Thanks for this explanation. I have heard musicians sing this raaga in
informal kaccheris and the artists actually got up after RTP, and then
sing Ahiri, because the tradition is that one does not eat after singing
this ragam. Again thanks for the explanation, and thanks to Eswar
Joysula for raising the question.
Subbarayan Pasupathy
Avittam <avi...@aol.com> wrote:
: Dear Josyulu,
: There is a story from the past in the olden days when
(rest of story deleted) ..
: Rangarajan A.V.
>Thanks for the reponse. The story is quite interestingIf there, indeed
>was something wrong with the raga Tyagaraja knowingly composed. It is
>not one of the vinta (vichitra) ragas of his time. Since the raga existed
>prior to him, I wonder if the belief in the raga was the same before him
>as it is now. Has Puranadara Daasa composed in this raga?
>--
>Eswar Josyula
>jos...@dnaco.com
Aahiri is an ancient raga. It was known as "Panchamam " in the tradition of
ancient Tamil music where the ragas were known as "paN"-s. There are many
"thEvaaram"-s ( Saivite hymns composed by Saivite saints ..7-9th Century)
which are prevalent even today and sung in the same way as originally
sung. ( Just as Vedic chanting has been passed by an oral tradition
singing "thevaaram"-s in the ancient "paN"-s was passed on from generation to
generation by a group of temple-singers, known as "Odhuvaar"-s. ).
Around the late forties and early fifties, researchers , such as
Prof.Sambamurthy and Prof.S.Ramanathan along with
Odhuvaar-s finalized
the equivalence of the modern day Ragas to the ancient PaN-s. Twenty-three
such paN-s were identified and the equivalence between "panchamam"
and "aahiri" was established at that time.
Hence the earliest compositions (though Thevaaram-s are not in the modern
kriti format) in Aahiri are these Thevaarams. Prof.S.Ramanathan later
published a book in Tamil(in 1970) which has the notation and words for
many of the ThEvaaram-s. ( He has one of Saint Sundaramurthy's Thevaaram
in Panchamam (Aahiri)). In fact, the compositions in this book in ragas
such as Hari Kamboji, Sankarabaranam , Bhairavi, etc are some of the
examples of compositions in India whose music has been preserved over
such a long period.
Incidentally, "paN"-s were divided into those suitable for singing in
day, night, general. Interesting that panchamam(aahiri) has been listed as
a day-time melody ... lending credence to the lunch-time story associated
with aahiri, quoted earlier by Sri A.V.Rangarajan!
S.Pasupathy
pas...@ecf.toronto.edu
--
S.Pasupathy
pas...@ecf.toronto.edu
Eswar Josyula
Subbarayan Pasupathy <pas...@ecf.toronto.edu> wrote:
<-->
:>Thanks for the reponse. The story is quite interestingIf there, indeed
:>was something wrong with the raga Tyagaraja knowingly composed. It is
:>not one of the vinta (vichitra) ragas of his time. Since the raga existed
:>prior to him, I wonder if the belief in the raga was the same before him
:>as it is now. Has Puranadara Daasa composed in this raga?
:>--
:>Eswar Josyula
:>jos...@dnaco.com
Information you have given surely fills a useful need.
: Aahiri is an ancient raga. It was known as "Panchamam " in the tradition of
: ancient Tamil music where the ragas were known as "paN"-s. There are many
: "thEvaaram"-s ( Saivite hymns composed by Saivite saints ..7-9th Century)
: which are prevalent even today and sung in the same way as originally
: sung. ( Just as Vedic chanting has been passed by an oral tradition
: singing "thevaaram"-s in the ancient "paN"-s was passed on from generation to
: generation by a group of temple-singers, known as "Odhuvaar"-s. ).
: Around the late forties and early fifties, researchers , such as
: Prof.Sambamurthy and Prof.S.Ramanathan along with
: Odhuvaar-s finalized
: the equivalence of the modern day Ragas to the ancient PaN-s. Twenty-three
: such paN-s were identified and the equivalence between "panchamam"
: and "aahiri" was established at that time.
Interesting coincidence that aahiri is discussed during the time of
mahasivaratri.
I am thinking panchamam to be associated with five. Is there some
connection to number five?
Are the Odhuvaar-s still singing? If so, which temples?
: Hence the earliest compositions (though Thevaaram-s are not in the modern
: kriti format) in Aahiri are these Thevaarams. Prof.S.Ramanathan later
: published a book in Tamil(in 1970) which has the notation and words for
: many of the ThEvaaram-s. ( He has one of Saint Sundaramurthy's Thevaaram
: in Panchamam (Aahiri)). In fact, the compositions in this book in ragas
: such as Hari Kamboji, Sankarabaranam , Bhairavi, etc are some of the
: examples of compositions in India whose music has been preserved over
: such a long period.
Is it possible for you to give a sampling of the thevaaram-s in aahiri
just to get an idea of the feelings involved. If translating seems
like a challenge, just a few words on what the content is about.
Any notes on why the names of the ragas were not preserved when the
raga itself was.
<-->
: --
: S.Pasupathy
: pas...@ecf.toronto.edu
--
Eswar Josyula
jos...@dnaco.com
Vasudevan Vellambi
Subbarayan Pasupathy <pas...@ecf.toronto.edu> wrote in article
<Ep942...@ecf.toronto.edu>...
> . . . .
of
> ancient Tamil music where the ragas were known as "paN"-s. There are many
> "thEvaaram"-s ( Saivite hymns composed by Saivite saints ..7-9th Century)
> which are prevalent even today and sung in the same way as originally
> sung. ( Just as Vedic chanting has been passed by an oral tradition
> singing "thevaaram"-s in the ancient "paN"-s was passed on from
generation to
> generation by a group of temple-singers, known as "Odhuvaar"-s. ).
> Around the late forties and early fifties, researchers , such as
> Prof.Sambamurthy and Prof.S.Ramanathan along with
> Odhuvaar-s finalized
> the equivalence of the modern day Ragas to the ancient PaN-s.
Twenty-three
> such paN-s were identified and the equivalence between "panchamam"
> and "aahiri" was established at that time.
> . . . .
> . . . .
> S.Pasupathy
> pas...@ecf.toronto.edu
During a concert at Tuticorin, Tamilnadu, in March, 1996, G S Mani talked
in depth about how music was preserved by the Odhuvars.
Due to lack of technology, they had to find means of getting music to a big
gathering. The odhuvars used to sing with Madhyama Sruthi. That is how many
Nishadantya and Dhaivatantya ragas came into being. This he announced
before singing Nadhanamakriya, which is Mayamalavagoulai sung in the
madhyama sruthi and nishadantya form. It is difficult to go to higher notes
than the Nishadham, when sung with madhyama sruthi, and hence
Nadhanamakriya came into being.
G S Mani said that if it had not been for the odhuvars many of the songs
(whatever category you may place them in) would not have been preserved,
nor would much of the music and culture of those days.
