Melakarthas and Ragas with same swaras.
Rajaraman > Narayanaswamy
Kumaran Santhanam (ksan...@eecs.berkeley.edu). In that I found that the ragas
Bhairavi and Maanji have the same Arohanam and Avarohanam
(S R2 G2 M1 P D2 N2 S and S N2 D1 P M1 G2 R2 S) For both of them the parent raga
is Natabhairavi (Melakartha 20) (S R2 G2 M1 P D1 N2 S and S N2 D1 P M1 G2 R2 S).
Am surprised that there could be two different ragas with the same set of
swaras.
Are there any more ragas like this? How does one differentiate between the two
ragas when somebody sings/plays them?
Also, I was under the impression that the Melakartha Ragas are the only ragas with
all the 7 swaras - which is not true here ( so much for my knowledge on Carnatic
Music !). So what is the basis for the classification of the 72 ragas? ( I saw
some postings that talked about some Sampurna and Asampurna melakarthas etc - but
couldnt quite comprehend)
Can somebody please respond? Better still, can someone point me to books that
talk about these?
Thanks in advance.
-rajaram
Krishna Kunchithapadam
r2...@dax.cc.uakron.edu (Rajaraman > Narayanaswamy ) writes:
:
: I was recently going through the "List of Carnatic Ragas" (version 0.9)
: compiled by Kumaran Santhanam (ksan...@eecs.berkeley.edu). In that I
: found that the ragas Bhairavi and Maanji have the same Arohanam and
: Avarohanam (S R2 G2 M1 P D2 N2 S and S N2 D1 P M1 G2 R2 S) For both of
: them the parent raga is Natabhairavi (Melakartha 20) (S R2 G2 M1 P D1
: N2 S and S N2 D1 P M1 G2 R2 S).
: Are there any more ragas like this? How does one differentiate between
: the two ragas when somebody sings/plays them?
In addition to Bhairavi/Manji, Arabhi/Sama & Darbar/Nayaki are
other pairs of ragas with the same scale. The scale of a raga is
only one of its _many_ identifying characteristics. Some texts
talk of the 72 lakshanas that ragas possess. So, technically,
ragas with the same scale display their individuality through
other lakshanas.
If you ask someone for the difference between the ragas of a pair
like the ones above, you are likely to get a highfalutin
explanation involving prayogas and gamakas in the purvanga and
uttaranga. The simplest way to distinguish between these ragas is
to listen to examples of each of them (as many and by as many
different artistes as possible). With time, it should become an
almost reflex action to tell these ragas apart. In any case, very
few are capable of and do try to identify a raga based on the
notes that occur during a performance---so the fact that two
ragas have the same scale really should not be detriment (or
otherwise) in identifying them.
:
: Also, I was under the impression that the Melakartha Ragas are the only
: ragas with all the 7 swaras - which is not true here ( so much for my
: knowledge on Carnatic Music !). So what is the basis for the
: classification of the 72 ragas? ( I saw some postings that talked about
: some Sampurna and Asampurna melakarthas etc - but couldnt quite
: comprehend)
:
The Mela scales are suffixed with the word "Karta" simply because
they are in a theoretical (and mostly practical) sense the
progenitors of all other scales.
Most ragas "can be obtained" by leaving out one or more notes in
one of the melakarta scales (and by optionally permuting and
repeating the remaining notes, in the arohana and avarohana).
There are a few other ragas which use notes from two or more mela
ragas---these are the bhashanga ragas (Bhairavi is a good
example).
Since melakartas are the generators of other ragas, they must
have 7 of the 12 notes of the octave. However, it is not part of
the definition of a melakarta that these notes be in the
monotonic ascending and descending order or that there should be
no varja (missing note, from the Sanskrit for leave or abandon)
in the scale.
The earliest melakartas were therefore, asampurna scales. The
mela ragas did not always have all 7 notes in both the arohana
and avarohana and these notes were also not in the simple
ascending and descending sequences---ie there was both varja and
vakra (from the Sanskrit for crooked) in the scales. However,
they fit the bill for being generators of simpler ragas and were
classified as melakartas.
The modern mela-raga scheme extended the concept of a melakarta
to specify avakra-avarja monotonic scales. This is simpler to
deal with and as vaggeyakaras have composed kritis in these
scales, they have attained the status of ragas.
:
: Can somebody please respond? Better still, can someone point me to
: books that talk about these?
:
I suggest you look at the books by Prof. Sambamoorthy. However,
be sure not to say anything in this newsgroup after "reading
books", since this is being frowned on here of late (:-).
--Krishna
K. Rao
: I was recently going through the "List of Carnatic Ragas" (version 0.9) compiled by
Even I am interested. If the information is going to be mailed and not
posted here, my mail address is k...@unislc.slc.unisys.com
Thanks in advance,
KNR
: Thanks in advance.
: -rajaram
Thyagarajan Mohan
>In article <1993Dec18.1...@news.uakron.edu>
>r2...@dax.cc.uakron.edu (Rajaraman > Narayanaswamy ) writes:
>In addition to Bhairavi/Manji, Arabhi/Sama
~~~~~~~~~~
& Darbar/Nayaki are other pairs of ragas with the same scale.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is strange.Arabhi has n3 in its scale,though week.sAma doesn't
have this.
Similarly,nAyaki and darbAr have the differentiating phrases in their
scale.Even great people like Danammal(as written by Subbudu)or Maharajapuram
Viswanatha Iyer(famous for his darbAr and mOhanam)have introduced nAyaki in
darbAr.The words of Viswanatha Iyer "nAyaki in mahArAjA's darbAr"(queen in
the king's court)is quite famous.
>:
>: Also, I was under the impression that the Melakartha Ragas are the only
>: ragas with all the 7 swaras - which is not true here ( so much for my
>: knowledge on Carnatic Music !)
The janya rAgAs that have all the seven notes in their scale
are called `janya sampUrNa rAgAs'.They may have atleast one foreign note their
scale or the scales are `vakra'.Ahiri,which is often considered a janya of
tODi,the 8th mELa,is an example for janya sampUrNa.However,G3 appears quite
frequently in this rAga.This takes may other notes r2,d2 and n3.
devAmrtavarShini(22nd )and Isha manOhari(28th)are some examples
of janya sampUrNa rAgAs.They don't take foreign notes,but have one or more
`vakra' feautures either in the ArOhaNa or avarOhaNa or both.
In addition,many `madhyama rAgAs' such as nadanAmakriya(15)
chitta ranjani(22)cencuraTi(28),kurinji(29) etc. have all the seven notes in
their scale.
MOHAN
--
Thyagarajan Mohan
tmo...@iastate.edu