Raga combiation - trivia
Abhay Phadnis
soz-e-ishq jaag". The penultimate verse of the song goes:
tuu jo chashm vaa kare, har uma.ng jaag uThe
aah-o-naalaa jaag uThe, raag-ra.ng jaag uThe
jog se mile bihaag
jaag soz-e-ishq jaag...
While the lines have a beautiful flow (more so in MP's rendition!), I was
wondering what the combination of Jog and Bihag would produce! Is there any
raag that is an admixture of the two?
(Incidentally, plagiarism enthusiasts might want to look at this song and
the "Anarkali" Lata-Hemant duet, 'jaag dard-e-ishq jaag'. The
first line is almost the same, as also the first line of the first stanza:
MP sings, 'tuune aa.Nkh ba.nd kii, qaa_enaat so ga_ii"; HK sings, 'aa.Nkh
zaraa lagii terii, saaraa jahaan so gayaa'!)
Warm regards,
Abhay
Ashok
>
>Driving to work this morning, was listening to Malika Pukhraj singing "jaag
>soz-e-ishq jaag". The penultimate verse of the song goes:
>
>tuu jo chashm vaa kare, har uma.ng jaag uThe
>aah-o-naalaa jaag uThe, raag-ra.ng jaag uThe
>jog se mile bihaag
>jaag soz-e-ishq jaag...
>
>While the lines have a beautiful flow (more so in MP's rendition!),
Than in what, s****e? :) Than in the words themselves, than in Lata's
rendition, than in Hemant's rendition?
I was
>wondering what the combination of Jog and Bihag would produce! Is there any
>raag that is an admixture of the two?
>
>(Incidentally, plagiarism enthusiasts might want to look at this song and
>the "Anarkali" Lata-Hemant duet, 'jaag dard-e-ishq jaag'. The
>first line is almost the same, as also the first line of the first stanza:
>MP sings, 'tuune aa.Nkh ba.nd kii, qaa_enaat so ga_ii"; HK sings, 'aa.Nkh
>zaraa lagii terii, saaraa jahaan so gayaa'!)
>
>Warm regards,
>Abhay
Isn't the 'Anarkali' duet in Bageshwari?
Question of interest from the plagiarism point of view: any idea about
the vintage of the Malika Pukhraj song? As it is, 'Anarkali' has a
surfeit of music directors associated with it one way or the other,
real or imagined: C. Ramchandra, Basant Prakash, Hemant Kumar, S. Mohinder,
Anil Biswas, Roshan, some Bengali I don't remember the name of, (but
Prithviraj would know, because he claims this Bengali composed a
Punjabi heer in Bengali), Adi Narayan Rao, and Waris Shah. Interestingly,
it also has a surfeit of lyricists associated with it: Rajinder Krishan,
Shailendra, Hasrat Jaipuri, Jan Nisar Akhtar, and Sardar Jafri.
Ashok
Abhay Phadnis
news:a57fn...@enews1.newsguy.com...(snip)
> >While the lines have a beautiful flow (more so in MP's rendition!),
>
> Than in what, s****e? :) Than in the words themselves, than in Lata's
> rendition, than in Hemant's rendition?
>
Where's Obelix? :-)
My parenthesized phrase just meant that the lines, beautiful in themselves,
sound even more beautiful when MP's sings them.
Re. the following: I must clarify that the "plagiarism" reference was to the
words only, not to the tune.
Warm regards,
Abhay
A Pavan
I think it is in Malgunji, rather than Bageshri !
Pavan
urzung
'jaag soz-e-ishq jaag' was issued in mid40s.
Urzung
Surajit A. Bose
"A Pavan" <taba...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Isn't the 'Anarkali' duet in Bageshwari?
>
> I think it is in Malgunji, rather than Bageshri !
>
No. "nain so nain naahii.n milaao" is in Malgunji, but for once Ashok is
right: "jaag dard-e-ishq jaag" is in Bageshree.
-s
Anindya
> Anil Biswas, Roshan, some Bengali I don't remember the name of, (but
> Prithviraj would know, because he claims this Bengali composed a
> Punjabi heer in Bengali),
are you referring to a song "Shukno shaakhaar paata jhhorey jaaye",
sung by Hemant. I think the composer is either Anupam Ghatak (who had
another Heerish-song in the movie: Tulsidas - Likhiinu je lipeekhaani)
or Hirendra Kumar Bose (it could also be that HKB wrote the song)
Anindya
Ashok
Yes, that's the song. Thanks. And I believe it's a non-film
song composed by Anupam Ghatak. Can you tell us anything more
about him?
Did Prthviraj write that he read it in Hemant's autobiography?
Sudhir Kakar claims the tune of the 'Anarkali' song to be the
same as that of a Punjabi heer? How easily available are the
Punjabi and the Bengali songs?
With Abhay's clarification, now the attention shifts to Rajinder
Krishan and Urzung Khan's dating means that RK borrowed (quoted
from) an exisitng poem. Who is the poet of "jaag soz-e-ishq"?
Ashok
urzung
Hafiz Jalundhri of 'abhii to mai.n javaan huu.n' fame.
Another MP/HJ combination 'lo phir basant aaii' is also
from mid40s.
Urzung Khan
naniwadekar
>
> "nain so nain naahii.n milaao" is in Malgunji.
>
Check out Rajan's post, dated 15 March 1993, for his analysis of this
song. And here is his post, dated 12 June 1995.
- dn
Rajan Parrikar's post -
------------------------------------------------------------
Malgunji is a kind of mix between Bageshree and Rageshree and is a
great gharana favourite of Gwalior-wallahs, K.S. Pandit, Vinayakrao
Patwardhan et al. There is also a nice violin recording of Allaudin
Khan in this Raga. The Raga uses both the gandhars (D' n' S R G M,
M g (S)R S and both the nishads (G M D N S", n D P).
The classic Hemant-Lata duet, 'Nain so nain` is considered by some
folks to be in Malgunji although I don't quite agree and think it
to be in Bageshree with a shuddha gandhar (it then becomes a matter
of perspective as is often the case when attributing Ragas to Hindi
film songs) thrown in.
------------------------------------------------------------
Anindya
> In article <f43baef6.02022...@posting.google.com>, andy...@hotmail.com says...
> >
> >> real or imagined: C. Ramchandra, Basant Prakash, Hemant Kumar, S. Mohinder,
> >> Anil Biswas, Roshan, some Bengali I don't remember the name of, (but
> >> Prithviraj would know, because he claims this Bengali composed a
> >> Punjabi heer in Bengali),
> >
> >are you referring to a song "Shukno shaakhaar paata jhhorey jaaye",
> >sung by Hemant. I think the composer is either Anupam Ghatak (who had
> >another Heerish-song in the movie: Tulsidas - Likhiinu je lipeekhaani)
> >or Hirendra Kumar Bose (it could also be that HKB wrote the song)
> >
> >Anindya
>
>
> Yes, that's the song. Thanks. And I believe it's a non-film
> song composed by Anupam Ghatak. Can you tell us anything more
> about him?
Ashok,
yes, it's non-film...and on second thoughts, I feel the MD was Hiren K
Bose, alright, and not AG. The confusion arose becoz HKB also wrote a
few songs which he didn't compose, and composed a few songs that he
didn't write, get it? HKB also wrote stories and directed movies and
also lived past the age of 100 - interesting chappie.
As for AG, he was a brilliant MD, quite under-rated, IMO - try to
listen to the soundtracks of Tulsidas and Agni Pareeksha, if you can.
Did Prthviraj write that he read it in Hemant's autobiography?
dunno about Prtviraj, but there was a 2-part interview Hemant gave on
Calcutta DD - which keeps getting repeated at regular intervals - in
which he sang this song. It's absolutely mind-blowing, and superb
effort by Hemant.
> Sudhir Kakar claims the tune of the 'Anarkali' song to be the
> same as that of a Punjabi heer? How easily available are the
> Punjabi and the Bengali songs?
which Anarkali song? the Baageshri-based (yup, it's Baageshri alright,
not Maalgunji :)) Jaag dard-e ishq ? then the tune is in no way
similar to Shukno shaakhaar.
the song is available in one of the 4-cassette compilation on Hemant's
songs released by HMV, shortly after his death. No idea if its still
available.
Anindya
Ashok
Oh, you guessed the Bengali original without knowing the Hindi
copy?! I suppose from its being a heer. The 'Anarkali' song
in question is the Hemant solo:
. aye baad-e-sabaa aahistaa chal
yahaa.N soee huee hai anaarakalee
It's credited to CR, but looks light the path is something like
CR <-- Hemant <-- Anupam Ghatak/Hiren Bose <-- Warish Shah.
Ashok
Abhay Phadnis
"Ashok" <ADhar...@WorldBank.Org> wrote in message
(snip)
> It's credited to CR, but looks light the path is something like
> CR <-- Hemant <-- Anupam Ghatak/Hiren Bose <-- Warish Shah.
>
Why not Waris Shah --> Hemant, Waris Shah --> CR? Ever so many songs - filmi
and non-filmi - use the melodic structure of the 'heer'. Why could not CR
too have borrowed directly from it?
Warm regards,
Abhay
Ashok
Because, according to Prithviraj, according to Hemant Kumar, CR had
nothing to do with the 'Anarkali' song. Since, Prithviraj seems to
be acting tough to get, I decided to overcome my sloth and look around
google groups. The post is appended.
Now I have to go and check which Hemant solo of 'Anarkali' Harish Bhimani
attributes to Hemant the MD. In other words, the question would be
whether the composer of "zi.ndagee pyaar kee do chaar gha.Dee hotee hai"
is Hemant or CR. A question to Prithviraj: does Hemant say anything
about this solo in his autobiography?
Ashok
Search Result 5
From: prit...@hotmail.com (prit...@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Anarkali MDs (was Re: Yah Giit Yaad Rakhanaa (#17))
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.misc
View: Complete Thread (8 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/05/11
In article <7h507m$20...@news1.newsguy.com>,
ADhar...@WorldBank.Org (Ashok) wrote:
> 'Anarkali': As far as I could gather from Harish Bhimani's book, there
> seems to be a question mark on only the Hemant solo "zindagi pyar ki
> do
> char ghaDi hoti hai." Excluding that from consideration, 'Anarkali' still
> has two songs by Hemant, where there is no dispute as to the music
> director.
>
The title song of the movie "aii baad-e-sabaa aahistaa
chal" was not composed by CR. Hemant Kumar mentions in
his autobigraphy "..'Anarkali' was ready for release
when the director felt the need for a title song instead
of a title music. S. Mukherji, the producer of the movie,
requested me to compose a song. I felt that the tune
of the Bengali song 'Shukna shaakhaar paataa' (composed by
Anupam Ghatak and sung by HK in 1950) was appropriate for
the situation and set the words to that tune."
Guess that is why this song cannot be credited either to
HK or CR.
(Pardon me for my horrible translation. Hemanta M's style
of writing is as beautiful as his voice).
In a followup thread somebody mentioned two HK songs
from Heer (MD: Anil B). Wasn't "O sajanaa"(HK/Getta D)
also from the same movie?
Regards
-Prithvi
Sudhir
======================================================================
For the songs which are based on folk songs or pre-existing compositions,
it is an acceptable practice to use the name of the person (in most cases,
the music Director) as the composer. It makes life easier for every
one. In any case, the MD did arrange the orchestra and also
supervised the recording. In few cases, he / she might have added few
additional notes to the base composition (for example for the song
listed above, C. Ramchandra added the opening instrumental music.
For people who still have reservations about this aspect, I am
going to give example of just one song.
Film: Mujhe Jeene Do
Song: Nadi Nare Na Jao Shyam / singer: Asha Bhonsle
Listed MD: Jaidev
It is a 100% copy (composition and the lyrics) of a
Non-film 'Dadra' by Gulab Bai / same song title,
re-issued on EP: 7EPE 17528 (original issue was
on 78 rpm)
As far as Anarkali's song is concerned, one can have endless
conversations, crediting this composition to some Bengali composer.
However, the fact remains that this folk tune has been in existance
for a very very long time. Many films have been made on Heer-Ranjha's
story. If the Bengali folk first heard it in a Bengali song, then
it doesn't make it a new composition. Since, I don't have any
Punjabi Heer song, prior to Anarkali's release, I can't provide
any snippet. The Punjabi Non-Film Heer songs I have, are all
from mid 50s and are in the voice of Asa Singh 'Mastana' (he
sang the song: Lo Apnda Jahan Duniya Walo / Film: Dooj Ka
Chand - of course 'Heer' tune, but credited to Roshan as an MD).
However, there was a film: Heer Ranjha 1948), staring: Mumtaz Shanti
& Ghulam Mohd., which may have some 'Heer' songs.
Sudhir
--------------------------------
adhar...@worldbank.org (Ashok) wrote in message > >
>
> Did Prthviraj write that he read it in Hemant's autobiography?
> Sudhir Kakar claims the tune of the 'Anarkali' song to be the
> same as that of a Punjabi heer? How easily available are the
> Punjabi and the Bengali songs?
>
> Ashok
Anindya
> of the Bengali song 'Shukna shaakhaar paataa' (composed by
> Anupam Ghatak and sung by HK in 1950) was appropriate for
> the situation and set the words to that tune."
ok, so it WAS AG< after all...I think Hiren K Bose was the lyricist.
Anindya
Harsh Vardhan
A more cannonical filmy Malgunji is RD Burman's "Ghar Aja Ghir Ayee"
(Lata, Chhote Nawab, 1962(Methink))
H
Anindya
> of the Bengali song 'Shukna shaakhaar paataa' (composed by
> Anupam Ghatak and sung by HK in 1950) was appropriate for
> the situation and set the words to that tune."
an instance of reverse copying (Hindi=>Bengali) that comes to mind is
the title song of Mere Mehboob (Naushad), which was used (lifted?) by
MD Anil Bagchi for the song - Aami je jawlshaaghawrey (movie: Antony
Firingi)
Anindya
P Dasgupta
> Because, according to Prithviraj, according to Hemant Kumar, CR had
> nothing to do with the 'Anarkali' song. Since, Prithviraj seems to
> be acting tough to get, I decided to overcome my sloth and look around
> google groups. The post is appended.
Sorry for the delay in posting, and thanks Ashok, for digging
out the relevant post from the RMIM archive. I double checked the
HMV tape and the MD for "shukno shaakhaar paataa" is indeed Anupam
Ghatak. Hiren Bose is the lyricist. Anindya seems to have recurring
trouble with correctly attributing Bengali MD-s of the 40-s:).
Anyways, some info as to the availability of the song.
HemantK recorded this song for the first time in 1949 or 1950.
This recording is available, besides the 78 rpm, on a HMV CS
titled "aamaar pujaar gaaner Daali" released in 1986, perhaps
a difficult-to-get tape nowadays. HemantK re-recorded this song
on an LP album titled "Hemanta Mukherjee - Bengali Modern songs"
in 1980. This recording is available in the commemmorative
4 tape pack released by HMV in 1989 titled "Shradddhanjali".
This tape should be available now.
> Now I have to go and check which Hemant solo of 'Anarkali' Harish Bhimani
> attributes to Hemant the MD. In other words, the question would be
> whether the composer of "zi.ndagee pyaar kee do chaar gha.Dee hotee hai"
> is Hemant or CR. A question to Prithviraj: does Hemant say anything
> about this solo in his autobiography?
No, Hemanta did not say anything about "zindagi pyar ki" in
his autobiography.
-Prithviraj
Anindya
> HMV tape and the MD for "shukno shaakhaar paataa" is indeed Anupam
> Ghatak. Hiren Bose is the lyricist. Anindya seems to have recurring
> trouble with correctly attributing Bengali MD-s of the 40-s:).
but I got the configs right, third time around, didn't I? :)
Anindya
Anindya
goofed again! that shld be Adhir Bagchi. Anil, the son, was also a fledgling MD.
Anindya
P Dasgupta
> > an instance of reverse copying (Hindi=>Bengali) that comes to mind is
> > the title song of Mere Mehboob (Naushad), which was used (lifted?) by
> > MD Anil Bagchi for the song - Aami je jawlshaaghawrey (movie: Antony
> > Firingi)
>
> goofed again! that shld be Adhir Bagchi. Anil, the son, was also a
> fledgling MD.
>
> Anindya
Actually, you "goofed" with an unnecessary goof-up. The MD of the
Bengali movie 'Antony Firingee' which has the song "Ami je jalsaghare"
is indeed Anil Bagchi. His son's name is Adhir Bagchi who sang
a couple of songs in the movie, and also had a reputation as
a Nazrulgeeti exponent in the 70s and 80s.
Here is what Manna De has to say about Anil Bagchi in his biography
titled "Ami niralay bosey": "'Antony Firingee'(1967) went a long way
in strengthening my base in Bengal as the voice of Uttamkumar. Among
the MD's from Calcutta, I loved Anil-da(Bagchi)'s technique of
compsing music. Although the basis of his music was Indian
classical music, but he would always add a touch of modernism to
the basic raga to make it appropriate for commercial film music.
He would mingle strains of Abhogi Kanada with Bengali folk music
to create his remarkable signature. Of all the songs that I sang
for that movie "Ami je jalsaghare" is alive even today after 25
years (the interview was probably taken in the mid 90s) amidst
the cacophony of un-musical songs. I admire Anil-da. He was
unique in his own way". And then MannaD goes on to narrate
a personal incident that exemplifies the magnanimity of Anil Bagchi.
Interestingly, Manna De mentions MD's in HFM such as KC De, SDB, SJ,
KA, Naushad, SalilC, RDB, HemantK, etc., but surprisingly never takes
the name of the other Anil-da.
The link to the Bengali song is below. It is indeed a very nice rendition,
my personal favorite over its Hindi "inspiration".
http://www.ganguly.de/mannadey/manna_64.ram
-Prithviraj
