Dr. L. Subramaniam Concert in Seattle
Vijay
Padmabushan Dr. L. Subramaniam
'God of Indian Violin'
Accompanied by a percussion team
Mahesh Krishnamurthy - Mridangam
Dr. Subhas Chandran - Ghatam (Portland)
Satish P - Kanjira
7:00 pm Sat 14th Sept 2002
McEachern Auditorium, MOHAI, Seattle
Advance tickets: $17; $22 & $27(Plus credit card/service fee. Service
fee vary with vendors)
At door: $20; $25 & 30 (Children below 12 years 50% off).
Tickets available at Fastixx Outlets (visit www.fastixx.com for outlet
locations), & online at Sulekha & Indogram
For additional information about Rasika, check our website at
www.rasika.org
doogar rajib
> Classical Violin Concert
> Padmabushan Dr. L. Subramaniam
> 'God of Indian Violin'
Sez who? What about V.G. Jog? D.K. Datar?
Lalgudi Jayaraman?
I have heard LS ... he is good, but God? NOT!
LS does a bunch of stuff that goes against the grain of properly
presented ICM -- for one thing he has (unfortunately) added a lot of
taraf to his instrument and that creates a bojangling resonance that
old-line purists will find problematic. His use of the electronic
pickup is a mind-bogglingly atrociously badly thought out move that
destroys the soul of the music and creates a harshness that only
someone brought up on electronics could love ... <time edit here>
LS is a good violinist (I will pay money to hear him), but "God"? His
ragdaari is ok, can be bad and at times only is great. He is so busy
showing off that it pisses me off to have to listen to him do his
stunts *all* the time. Lalgudi-ji is for my money a better classical
Karnatic violinist any day. I won't even go near Pt. Jog because I
have a bias there. Rajam-ji is great. Lalgudi-ji's kids are great.
Kala Ramnath is geat. Arun Dhanurkar is not bad. LS has a great PR
operation, but let that not lead you into disrespect for many many
great and good musicians.
Moral: Learn your articles. Don't say "God of Indian Violin", say "A
God of Indian Violin".
cheers,
rajib
--
Rajib Doogar www.cba.uiuc.edu/doogar
Balwant Dixit
and meaningless. Omit one "o" and just say "a good Indian violinist" and
you will be right. Use the word "God" and the statement looses all its
meaning. Looks like Padmabhushan is not enough?.... .....Balwant Dixit
Surajit A. Bose
Balwant Dixit <bdi...@pitt.edu> wrote:
Speaking of extra "o"s, I think you mean "the statement loses all its
meaning" 8-)
-s
naniwadekar
Surajit A. Bose <sb...@saintmarys.edu> wrote -
>
> > "God of Indian violin?" To make such a statement is so repulsive
> > and meaningless. Omit one "o" and just say "a good Indian violinist" and
> > you will be right. Use the word "God" and the statement looses all its
> > meaning. Looks like Padmabhushan is not enough?.... .....Balwant Dixit
> >
>
> Speaking of extra "o"s, I think you mean "the statement loses all its
> meaning" 8-)
>
The word 'lose' is almost always spelled 'loose' these days.
Expect the next edition of OED to mention :
loose : a usenet variant of 'lose'.
- dn
Nick Haynes
> Vijay <vija...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Classical Violin Concert
>>Padmabushan Dr. L. Subramaniam
>>'God of Indian Violin'
>
>
> Sez who? What about V.G. Jog? D.K. Datar?
> Lalgudi Jayaraman?
>
> I have heard LS ... he is good, but God? NOT!
>
I have heard and enjoyed too. But I have also not forgotten that, last
time I bought a ticket to see him play, he did not turn up, nor did he
send any reason or excuse (at least not in time to be relayed to the
audience). He probably would not be so glad to hear that, as we had
Vikku Viayakram + Co providing percussion, that the concert was probably
even better without him than it would have been with him.
bdixit
I stand corrected. I was "loose" in my spelling. I wanted to say,
"Add one "o" and just say "a good Indian violinist" and
you will be right. ....Balwant Dixit
--
Balwant N. Dixit
University of Pittsburgh
559 Salk Hall
Pittsburgh, PA 15261
Tel No:(412) 648-8582
FAX No:(412) 648-8475
Shree
> I have heard and enjoyed too. But I have also not forgotten that, last
> time I bought a ticket to see him play, he did not turn up, nor did he
> send any reason or excuse (at least not in time to be relayed to the
> audience). He probably would not be so glad to hear that, as we had
> Vikku Viayakram + Co providing percussion, that the concert was probably
> even better without him than it would have been with him.
I had similar experience with L.Shankar (L.Subramaniam's brother) in
London quite recently, and it was Vikku Viayakram + Co again managing
the show. Striking similarity in modus operandii.....
--Shree
Balu Nadig
that called him "The God of Indian Violin".
Oh, what shall we call M.S. Gopalkrishnan?
Regards
Balu Nadig
doogar rajib <doo...@staff2.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote in message news:<GT9d9.16347$m7.1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>...
doogar rajib
> As per http://www.indianviolin.com/, it is the Times of India, Mumbai
> that called him "The God of Indian Violin".
Oh! Wow! I stand so corrected.
Actually here is an IMWTK topic: I am not sure whether the Times of
India critics have any substance to them, but if the English language
press in Calcutta (or whatever bastardized crap passes for it these
days) is anything to go by, then these opinions are rendered by people
whose sole job in life is render perfectly good newsprint unusable
even for unmentionable purposes. Is this modest generaliation
applicable to the Times of India as well? How speak the budhas of
rmic on this one?
> Oh, what shall we call M.S. Gopalkrishnan?
Who is he? Has he ever played in the Times?
doogar rajib
> As per http://www.indianviolin.com/, it is the Times of India, Mumbai
> that called him "The God of Indian Violin".
> Oh, what shall we call M.S. Gopalkrishnan?
> Regards
> Balu Nadig
Just wanted to clarify ... my previous post is more a takeoff on your
rather dry (and totally funny) juxtaposition of the Times source with
the MSG counter-example rather than any sort of a poke at it. (Just
thought I'd save bandwidth in advance of any possible ire -- must be
age catching up with me :)
bdixit
performing artistes such meaningless titles (e.g. GOD of Indian violin)
but it is another thing for promoters to use these meaningless titles in
announcing or promoting concerts of these musicians. .......Balwant
naniwadekar
bdixit <bdi...@pitt.edu> wrote -
>
> It is one thing for TOI, or for any other publication to bestow on
> performing artistes such meaningless titles (e.g. GOD of Indian violin)
> but it is another thing for promoters to use these meaningless titles in
> announcing or promoting concerts of these musicians. .......Balwant
> Dixit
>
One standard argument used by some concert promoters is that
they don't necessarily endorse everything written in a flyer. I think
some artists even insist that they would choose the flyer text,
not the concert promoters. I would like to know how you (and
other promoters, in your experience) deal with such performers.
- dn
Padma Ravikumar
concert featuring a write up that desribed him as reincarnation of Lord
Krishna !!!!! I have seen anything else that beats this one till now :-)
"naniwadekar" <nan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:alai5a$1o1ijm$1...@ID-75735.news.dfncis.de...
Garamwkcr
> It is one thing for TOI, or for any other publication to bestow on
> performing artistes such meaningless titles (e.g. GOD of Indian violin)
And doesn't that say something (nothing good!) about journalistic standards and
credibility when it comes to writing about music (or other arts)? Although
such puffery abounds across cultural/national lines, I must say that I find the
Indian press particulary unreadable in this regard.
As a working music journalist myself, I find the PR jobs that pass as
"criticism" (or even feature pieces!) especially galling.
Anastasia
Rajan P. Parrikar
>And doesn't that say something (nothing good!) about journalistic standards and
>credibility when it comes to writing about music (or other arts)? Although
>such puffery abounds across cultural/national lines, I must say that I find the
>Indian press particulary unreadable in this regard.
It is true that the general journalistic standards in India are
abysmal but the "particularly unreadable" is only a matter of
perception. For me the opposite is true: I find American
journalism to be utterly mediocre if not vacuous, bereft of
substance and fit only for a Ritalian society. True, the
American has mastered the art of packaging his piffle
into an attractive production (and the Pulitzers duly recognize
such achievement) but let that not deter you from seeing it
for what it is.
Warm regards,
r
Bansijeff
noticeably absent in the Indo-American press -
"Rape Investigated as a Hate Crime
"An 18-year-old Hindu man working at a Palo Alto Long Drug Store has been
arrested for allegedly raping a 15-year-old Muslim co-worker while uttering
racial and religious slurs.
"Police said they are investigating the Friday night attack as a hate crime,
said Palo Alto Police Agent Dennis Tealer. The suspect, Sanjay Nair of East
Palo Alto, has been charged with false imprisonment, rape, hate crimes and
sexual battery and is being held in Santa Clara County Jail without bail.
"The girl, an East Palo Alto resident, was treated at Santa Clara Valley
Medical Center before being released early Saturday morning.
"The girl told investigators that before and during the alleged attack at the
downtown Longs on University Avenue, Nair made derogatory comments about her
race and religion., Tealer said. About 8:45 p.m. the man alledgedly followed
the girl into a store bathroom and assaulted her."
yours truly
Jeff
>Subject: Re: Dr. L. Subramaniam Concert in Seattle
>From: Rajan P. Parrikar
bdixit
biographical description usually is limited to 1/3 to 1/2 page. Based
on the information given to me, or available to me, I compose (not
write) the text, send it to the musician requesting him/her to make any
factual corrections, before I distribute it to local organizers or post
it on the web page. The essential information includes the name(s) of
the musician's teacher(s), his/her style of music (e.g. gharana) and the
legitimate awards he/she has received (e.g. All India Radio competition
award, Sangeet Natak Academy Award, Padma awards etc.). Newspaper
reports about musicians and their performances are rarely included,
since in my experience, those who write (except one or two) in Indian
newspapers about ICM, or for that matter those who write about ICM in
newspapers such as INDIA WEST, are not to be taken seriously. In most
instances, as a practice, I even avoid mentioning whether someone is a
Pandit or a Ustad. I have had a few complains but my argument is that
since I am the national sponsor "I call all the shots." Have I
answered your question? .....Balwant Dixit
Rajan P. Parrikar
>
>Here's a bit of American press (pg A27 of the Sep 1 SF Chronicle) that has been
>noticeably absent in the Indo-American press -
The Indo-American Press was wise to not rush to judgement.
Here is the latest from SF Chron.
Warm regards,
r
No hate charge in attack, D.A. says
Ryan Kim, Chronicle Staff Writer Friday, September 6, 2002
The Santa Clara County District Attorney's Office said Thursday it does
not have enough evidence to charge an East Palo drugstore clerk with a
hate crime following an alleged sexual assault against a female co-worker.
Prosecutors on Thursday charged 18-year-old with felony assault with
intent to commit rape and will consider adding a felony rape charge
pending laboratory test results.
District Attorney's Office spokeswoman Karyn Sinunu said prosecutors were
not able to determine that religious bias played a substantial role in
the alleged assault, which police said occurred Friday night at the
downtown Palo Alto Longs drugstore.
Police said that Nair, a Hindu, made comments during the attack that
appeared to indicate he was motivated by the victim's religious
background. The victim is a 15-year-old Muslim.
"Although bias is a factor, we could not prove at this time that this
is a substantial factor in the motivation in committing the assault,"
said Sinunu.
Nair, who was in Santa Clara County Jail Thursday in lieu of $20,000
bail, is expected to be arraigned today, she said. His bail was dropped
from $150, 000 after prosecutors decided against charging him with a
hate crime.
Palo Alto police were unfazed by the news and said they stood by their
original arrest.
"What we did was totally appropriate," said Police Chief Pat Dwyer. "If
the District Attorney doesn't believe it meets the threshold for
prosecution, I respect that judgment."
Nair's mother defended her son Thursday and said he is innocent of the
charges. Through a translator, Urmila Devi Nair said her son and the
alleged victim were friends but had gotten into a fight earlier in
the day Friday.
Some members of the Bay Area's Muslim Indian community expressed
disappointment at the news that Nair will not face hate crime charges.
"The officer who investigated this said he was 100 percent sure," said
Manzoor Ghori, chairman of the Indian Muslim Relief Committee in Palo Alto.
E-mail Ryan Kim at rk...@sfchronicle.com.
Bansijeff
Under the American system of jurisprudence, it is judges and juries which pass
judgement on crimes, not newspapers. The role of journalists in the US is
generally considered to be reporting the facts and letting the chips fall where
they may.
It is the failure of the Indo-American press to report the facts of the story
which is lamentable, not any rush to judgement. The Indo-American press is
silent. Much of the Indian press seems to march to the beat of the drummer of
"The Proper Light Brigade," Arundhati Roy's term for revisionist hinduism.
May I point out that the very story Rajan cites is from an American paper, and
it quotes the Police Chief of Palo Alto (my home town) as stating that the
filing of hate crime charges was totally appropriate. Hard to prove, though.
Rajan P. Parrikar
>Here's a bit of American press (pg A27 of the Sep 1 SF Chronicle) that has
>been noticeably absent in the Indo-American press -
In the Sept 13, 2002 issue of INDIA ABROAD on page A28
is the news item reported by Suleman Din under the header
"Rape of Muslim girl categorized as hate crime." INDIA
ABROAD is the premier Indo-American publication circulated
throughout North America and elsewhere. Din's report
says that the alleged attacker is from Fiji and in view
of the 9/6 new item I have posted from The Chron Din's
filing appears a little dated.
The only thing noticeably absent in this is due diligence
on your part.
Warm regards,
r
Rajan P. Parrikar
reported the incident in a publication widely read by the
diaspora. There is no failure on the part of the Indo-American
press in this regard. Whereas your failure in doing due
diigence has been duly noted.
Warm regards,
r
Rajan P. Parrikar
monthly in the Bay Area informs via email that
INDIA WEST, another Indo-American publication from
California, has also reported it. I don't have access
to IW right now but it shouldn't be hard to verify this.
At any rate, the allegation made by Jeff that the Indo-American
Press has been silent about this incident has now been
shown to be bogus.
Note: most Indo-American publications are issued weekly
or monthly and so there is a lag between events and
their reportage.
Warm regards,
r
naniwadekar
bdixit <bdi...@pitt.edu> wrote -
>
> I have had a few complains but my argument is that
> since I am the national sponsor "I call all the shots." Have I
> answered your question? .....Balwant Dixit
>
I wish you had quoted (part of) my post in your reply.
But that small point apart, yes, you have answered my
question. Now, the sub-question would be about the
nature of complaints, stories about polite ones and
impolite ones (tantrums and all). I am sure the forum
will keep hearing the stories by-and-by, from you and
other promoters and organisers.
- dn
Garamwkcr
RP wrote:
<"particularly unreadable" is only a matter of
perception. For me the opposite is true: I find American
journalism to be utterly mediocre if not vacuous, bereft of
substance and fit only for a Ritalian (sic) society.>
Which leads to another question: There are a couple of "world" music magazines
available in the States that cover ICM--does anyone here read them? (Or, for
that matter, know what they are?)
Other "niche" genres (i.e., Western classical, jazz) have dedicated print
magazines and critics' web sites that I *do* believe serve a purpose--they
review artists' live & recorded work, they generate discussions between fans,
provide info about new releases & upcoming concerts, educate listeners about
the music, and generally engender a feeling of community amongst musicians and
listeners.
(Of course, the question of how well they meet those needs and fulfill those
missions is another matter entirely!)
Do any publications/web sites/etc. (excluding RMCR, of course) function in that
way for any of you?
Garamwkcr
included,
>since in my experience, those who write (except one or two) in Indian
>newspapers about ICM, or for that matter those who write about ICM in
>newspapers such as INDIA WEST, are not to be taken seriously.>
How to raise standards, then?
For those who might be so inclined, there's an interesting series of
articles/discussions on the subject of music writers/critics posted throughout
the month of Sept. on www.newmusicbox.org.
The site's focus is on new ("avant-garde") Western classical/art music, but
much of what is being said there can be applied across the spectrum.
Bansijeff
not an indictable crime. If hate crimes were not so hard to prove these
spiritual sons of Nathuram Godse would be in big trouble.
I posted to RMIC my concern about the lack of coverage in the local
Indo-American press of the rape of a muslim girl by a hindu boy in Palo Alto on
Sept 9. Rajan cites an article in India Post for the Sept 13 edition - which
proves my point that no such article had been written in IP as of the 9th. A
call to India West today found that such an piece is being written for this
week's edition, but the writer of that story was unable to confirm that any
story was previously written in IW. Until I see it, I won't believe it, and no
one I know saw it either. I asked around. I first heard about the incident on
the KPIX 11pm news on Aug 30.
I have nothing against India West, India Post, or India Currents. IW and IC
have run very nice articles about me, and IP-TV did a piece too. All the
journalists I have met from these orgs have been thoughtful and intelligent.
Really, I hope to be proven wrong. But up to the moment of my original posting
I had still not seen a single article in any of these organs and Rajan offers
no proof at all that such an article was written and has not yet done homework
to cite one.
There have been many racist acts towards Arabs and people of So. Asian
ethnicity in the US since 9/11/01, ranging from the deadly to the serious and
then the trivial. When one of my Indian friends relates to me one of the
latter, I usually ask, "Have you ever been spit upon by a white American? I've
been spit on in India several times because of my skin color." I've also been
robbed, cheated, threatened, and lied to repeatedly in India, and by Indians.
The subject of Indian racism is one well known to me, from my own experience,
and none of Rajan Parrikar's sophistry will erase that knowledge from my soul.
In my 30-plus years of bansuri playing I have also endured a certain amout of
hate speech - including postings on RMIC.
Rajan was once fond of posting diatribes on RMIC regarding "the superiority of
Indian DNA." I called him "RMIC's Dr. Schockley, Mr. Rajan Parrikar, who
claims his 'Indian DNA' makes him superior in all things ICM over those who
were born in other countries." Here is his exact, unedited reply, posted on
RMIC in the "sitar baj" thread -
"No, dickweed. 'Indian DNA' makes one superior to everyone else in the world,
period.
"Don't be so modest, pigpup. The worst is indubitably the hippie mleccha
flotsam. But it is still progress, being flushed from the acid-tripping pot
smoking bum sewers to pipe-blowing in a restaurant corner, even though the tide
took 30 years in the making, and the mleecha's compost chemistry may ferment
just enough to blow a Yaman scale."
So thanks, Mr Parrikar, for showing your true face, and for showing us all
exactly what Indian racism consists of. The same racism behind the rape of the
15 year old girl in Long's Drugs on University Ave in my home town. And by
the way, I spent the 60's in the social cosciousness movement, including a year
in jail as a conscientious objector during the Vietnam war and a few arrests
too by the racists for civil rights actions, so all the anti-hippie stuff was
an especially low blow. And isn't it Indian "holy-men" who smoke dope in
chillums? Thanks too for adding the word "mleccha" to my vocabulary.
Anyway, GTG. Want to check out "The Lord of the Violin" - Leslie Nielsen.
Jeff
>Subject: Re: Dr. L. Subramaniam Concert in Seattle
>From: Rajan P. Parrikar
>Date: 9/9/02 12:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time
naniwadekar
Bansijeff <bans...@aol.com> wrote -
>
> There have been many racist acts towards Arabs and people of So. Asian
> ethnicity in the US since 9/11/01, ranging from the deadly to the serious
and
> then the trivial. When one of my Indian friends relates to me one of the
> latter, I usually ask, "Have you ever been spit upon by a white American?
> I've been spit on in India several times because of my skin color." I've
also
> been robbed, cheated, threatened, and lied to repeatedly in India, and by
> Indians. The subject of Indian racism is one well known to me, from my
>
There are several white contributors to this forum whose
experience of India is quite different from yours. Instead of
telling us dubious stories about what happened to you in India,
why don't you ask them the same question : 'Have *you* ever
been spit upon by an India?' Your use of double standards
would make even a narcissistic fellow blush. You make light of
attacks against Asians since Sept 11, 2001, by asking
counter-questions limited to any given fellow's experience?
You even have the gall to announce (earlier in this thread) :
"Under the American system of jurisprudence, it is judges and juries which
pass judgement on crimes, not newspapers. The role of journalists in the US
is generally considered to be reporting the facts and letting the chips fall
where they may. "
As if things are any different with British, Indian, French
or Canadian jurisprudence!!
Anybody persuing just this thread (forget samples of your
stupidity in rmic archives from the years past) would know
that your credibility is nil. I can't believe you have been spit
upon in India. I mean, why should anybody bother?
> Anyway, GTG. Want to check out "The Lord of the
> Violin" - Leslie Nielsen.
>
You deserve to be ignored, moron. Get lost.
If your DNA is representative of the American DNA (as I
know it isn't), then not just the Indian DNA but even a pig's
DNA is superior to that.
- dn
Rajan P. Parrikar
>I posted to RMIC my concern about the lack of coverage in the local
>Indo-American press of the rape of a muslim girl by a hindu boy in Palo Alto on
>Sept 9. Rajan cites an article in India Post for the Sept 13 edition - which
>proves my point that no such article had been written in IP as of the 9th. A
>call to India West today found that such an piece is being written for this
>week's edition, but the writer of that story was unable to confirm that any
>story was previously written in IW. Until I see it, I won't believe it, and no
>one I know saw it either. I asked around. I first heard about the incident on
>the KPIX 11pm news on Aug 30.
>
.
.
.
>I had still not seen a single article in any of these organs and Rajan offers
>no proof at all that such an article was written and has not yet done homework
>to cite one.
This shameless piece of shit, Jeff Whittier, whose raggedy
hippie ass had been kicked here some years ago is back for further
treatment. The swine just can't have enough.
First things first: INDIA WEST, Sept 6, 2002 Page A28,
carried the news item with the header "Palo Alto Rape Case Being
Probed as a Hate Crime." There you have it. The semi-literate
American oaf, Jeff Whittier, this racist loser and restaurant-grade
noise-producer, should now go hang his head in shame.
>latter, I usually ask, "Have you ever been spit upon by a white American? I've
>been spit on in India several times because of my skin color." I've also been
>robbed, cheated, threatened, and lied to repeatedly in India, and by Indians.
Indians are smart people, you effing ape. They know a hippie pile of
garbage when they see it. I am glad they spit on you. Some may
have even wanted to defecate on you since there's hardly anything that
distinguishes your compost chemistry from pigshit.
>The subject of Indian racism is one well known to me, from my own experience,
>and none of Rajan Parrikar's sophistry will erase that knowledge from my soul.
>In my 30-plus years of bansuri playing I have also endured a certain amout of
>hate speech - including postings on RMIC.
30 years of blowing a pipe and producing noise in a restaurant
corner. That's your karma, imbecile.
>So thanks, Mr Parrikar, for showing your true face, and for showing us all
>exactly what Indian racism consists of. The same racism behind the rape of the
>15 year old girl in Long's Drugs on University Ave in my home town. And by
>the way, I spent the 60's in the social cosciousness movement, including a year
>in jail as a conscientious objector during the Vietnam war and a few arrests
>too by the racists for civil rights actions, so all the anti-hippie stuff was
>an especially low blow.
Don't dump your sob-story here, muckface. Nobody gives a flying
fuck about what pot-smokin' fornicatin' sheep shaggin' hippie riffraff
did or didn't do.
Last week, out of the blue, this asswipe dropped a message on my
telephone machine seeking my advice for his son's college plans.
Whittier, you are not to contact me ever, either in person,
over email, or over the telephone. But I look forward to more
occasions of trashing your polluting mlechha ass here on rmic.
Now consider yourself spit upon and bug off.
r
Bossk (R)
[snipped]
Are you doing a Keith Erskine?
Bossk (R) <bossk-...@telia.com>
Pinaki Sengupta
>I've
> been spit on in India several times because of my skin color." I've
> also been
> robbed, cheated, threatened, and lied to repeatedly in India, and by
> Indians.
> The subject of Indian racism is one well known to me, from my own experience,
To quote you from earlier in the article:
> Until I see it, I won't believe it, and no
> one I know saw it either. I asked around.
Well, I did not ask around about your being spat on, etc., but I do know of
several other white-skinned persons with *very* different experience. And
this includes a musician (of better repute than yourself, I might add) who
has trained in India. This begs the question: What did you *do* to get spat on?
> I have nothing against India West, India Post, or India Currents. IW and IC
> have run very nice articles about me, and IP-TV did a piece too.
Is that why you have nothing against them? Or should we judge a newspaper
by their articles about you?
> And by the way, I spent the 60's in the social cosciousness movement,
> including a year
> in jail as a conscientious objector during the Vietnam war and a few arrests
> too by the racists for civil rights actions, so all the anti-hippie stuff was
> an especially low blow.
And this isn't?
> And isn't it Indian "holy-men" who smoke dope in chillums?
If I were to stoop so low as you, I could say something about unholy acts
by holy men in the US that *harms* others, but I'll let that pass.
BTW, the article Rajan quoted says the guy is from Fiji. Do you know for
sure that he is Indian? The article you quote just says he is Hindu.
Pinaki.
Bansijeff
>Subject: Re: Dr. L. Subramaniam Concert in Seattle
>Date: 9/10/02 11:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Messa
>You deserve to be ignored, moron. Get lost.
>If your DNA is representative of the American DNA (as I
>know it isn't), then not just the Indian DNA but even a pig's
>DNA is superior to that.
>
>- dn
It is not necessary to look any further
than RMIC to see why Indians regularly murder one another wholesale by the
100's, by the 1000's, and at partition, by the lakh and by the million. Racism
and communalism are always lurking there, right below the surface.
A friend called me yesterday to read to me the article from India West of Sep
6 regarding the Hindu Sanjay Nair's rape of a Muslim girl. I'm glad they
printed it. It sounded uncannily similar to the piece in the SF Chronicle of
Sep 1. Does IW get its news from the Chron? Rajan has already established that
India Post is running a piece on Sep 13. What about India Abroad and India
Journal? Dunno. India Current is exempt - they're a monthly. We'll se what
they have to say next month. The ink is not dry on the IP article, and Hindu
revisionism has already begun. A web site called Emalayale, "Linking
Malayalees in America and worldwide" is presenting the events under the title
"It was not a hate rape." As we have already seen, the police investigating the
event believe that it was a hate crime, but they don't have enough evidence to
try it as such. Stating flatly that it was not a "hate rape" is sophistry.
Don't forget that it wasn't so long ago that rape itself was so hard to prove
it was rarely prosecuted successfully. Thanks to the latest DNA technology,
it's easy to prove now if there's physical evidence left behind.
Now that we're on the subject of DNA, let me quote again Dr Parrikar's post
to RMIC in the sitar-baj thread, "Indian DNA makes one superior to every one
else in all things. Period." Let us see what DNA theory has to say about Indian
DNA, from an article in the SF Chron, originally from Newsday, and not
reprinted by India West -
History of Ancient Indian Conquest Told in Modern Genes, Experts Say
By Robert Cooke
Like an indelible signature enduring through a hundred generations, genes
that entered India when conquering hordes swooped down from the north thousands
of years ago are still there, and remain entrenched at the top of the caste
system, scientists report.
Analyses of the male Y chromosome, plus genes hidden in small cellular
bodies called mitochondria, show that today's genetic patterns agree with
accounts of ancient Indo-European warriors' conquering the Indian subcontinent.
The invaders apparently shoved the local men aside, took their women and set
up the rigid caste system that exists today. Their descendants are still the
elite within Hindu society.
Thus today's genetic pattern, the researchers explained, vividly reflect a
historic event, or events, that occurred 3,00 or 4,00 years ago. The gene
patterns "are consistent with a historical scenario in which invading
Caucasoids - primarily males - established the caste system and occupied the
highest positions, placing the indigenous population, who were more similar to
Asians, in lower caste positions."
The researchers, from the University of Utah and Andhra Pradesh University
in India, used two sets of genes in their analyses. One set, from the
mitochondria, are only passed maternally and can be used to track female
inheritance. The other, on the male-determining Y chromosome, can only be
passed along paternally and thus track male inheritance.
The data imply then, "that there were a group of males with European
affinities who were largely responsible for this invasion 3,000 or 4,000 years
ago," said geneticist Lynn Jorde of the University of Utah. If women had
accompanied the invaders, he said, the evidence should be seen in the
mitochondrial genes, but it is not evident.
Along with Jorde, the research team included Michael Barnshad, W.S. Watkins
and M.E. Dixon from Utah and B.B. Rao, B.V.R. Prasad and J.M. Naidu, from
Andhra Pradesh University.
By studying both sets of genetic markers, the research team found clear
evidence echoing what is still seen socially, that women can be upwardly
mobile, in terms of caste, if they marry high-caste men. In contrast, men do
not generally move higher, because women rarely marry men from lower castes,
the researchers said.
"Our expectations in this natural experiment are borne out when we look at
the genes," said Jorde. "It's one of the few cases where we know the mating
situation is in a population for 150 generations. So it's a kind of test for
how well the genes reflect a population's history."
The ancient story holds that invaders known as Indo-Europeans, or true
Aryans, came from Eastern Europe or western Asia and conquered the Indian
subcontinent. The people they subdued descended from the original inhabitants
who had arrived earlier from Africa and from other parts of Asia.
During the genetic studies, in 1996 and 1997, researchers took blood samples
from hundreds of people in southern India. The analyses compared the genes
from 316 caste members and 330 members of tribal populations, looking for signs
of Asian, European and African ancestry.
In the mitochondrial genes passed along by females, Jorde said, they could
see the clear background of Asian genes. "All of the caste groups were similar
to Asians, the underlying population that had been originally subdued. But, he
added, "when we look at the Y chromosome DNA, we see a very different pattern.
The lower castes are most similar to Asians, and the upper castes are more
European than Asian."
Further, "when we look at the different components within the upper caste,
the group with the greatest similarity of all is the warrior caste, the
Kshastrya, who are still at the top of the Hindu castes with the Brahmins,"
Jorde said. "But the Brahmins, in terms of their Y chromosomes, are a little
bit more Asian."
So the genetic results are "consistent with historical accounts that women
sometimes marry into higher caste, resulting in female gene flow between
adjacent castes. In contrast, males seldom change castes, so Y chromosome
variation occurs only as a result of natural mutations," Jorde said.
The blood samples taken from tribal people in southern India are still being
analyzed, Jorde added. But so far, "the tribal populations are more similar to
the original residents of India," he said.
--
Hey, Varna really does mean "color." If anyone doubts this, check out the
use of the words "fair-complexioned" in the Indian matrimonial ads. I've heard
that India Currents bans the use of this term in its ads. If they do, I
applaud it. And thanks 'naniwadekar" for showing us all your racism too. You
prove my point.
Jeff.
naniwadekar
Bansijeff <bans...@aol.com> wrote -
>
> Rajan has already established that
> India Post is running a piece on Sep 13.
>
Jeff Whittier -
The other thing to have been (re)established is that you
are an ass. Why don't you shove your stories up your
bansi instead of blowing foul air into it?
- dn
Rajan P. Parrikar
>has trained in India. This begs the question: What did you *do* to get spat on?
Pinaki,
Good question.
It is not that uncommon for hippie trash to be spat upon in
India. Once the 60s hippie era was passe in the West, these
dregs, rejects in their own societies, discovered a haven
in some places in India (Goa, Kerala etc) where they could
dope and fornicate undisturbed. But after a while, their presence
began to wreak havoc on the local society. Many of these
pondscum were found indulging in crimes such as raping
local girls, sodomizing young local boys, pedophelia, theft
and murder to fund their drug habits and so on. Hippie
flotsam overstaying illegally in India without valid visas
is also a pervasive problem. The enraged locals often get
to these bums before the police do and administer a preliminary
dose of homegrown justice (which includes spitting on the pile of
garbage). A definitive account of these white flotsam,
utter failures and on the fringe in their own native cultures
in the West, in India would be a good topic for "research"
should any India anthropologists be interested.
Warm regards,
r
Warren Senders
>utter failures and on the fringe in their own native cultures
>in the West, in India would be a good topic for "research"
>should any India anthropologists be interested.
Please reference my post of some years back on "Hippies;"
you will find a citation of a book entitled "Hippies - a study
of their drug habits and sexual customs," which, while
hardly definitive, is at least amusing in parts and titillatious
in others.
WS
Warren Senders
>perception. For me the opposite is true: I find American
>journalism to be utterly mediocre if not vacuous, bereft of
>substance and fit only for a Ritalian (sic) society.>
>
>Which leads to another question: There are a couple of "world" music magazines
>available in the States that cover ICM--does anyone here read them? (Or,
>for that matter, know what they are?)
Frank Zappa once famously defined "rock journalism" as
"people who can't write interviewing people who can't talk
for the benefit of people who can't read."
The "world music" magazines in the West at present come
and go. The quality of their coverage of ICM, or any genre
for that matter, is dependent on the quality of the writers
and editors involved. Like good science writing, good music
criticism involves expressing what are often extremely complex
concepts in lay language; the rare cases in which the concepts
come through undistorted are certainly the exception rather
than the rule.
Most "cultural journalists" are subject to deadline pressures
which preclude making serious study of more than a few
idioms, and therefore their "articles" are most of the time a
repackaging of promotional literature which has been sent to
them or to their editors.
As a performer who has at other times written for various music
journals, and who has been a promotional writer, I have been on
all three sides of this equation (I am divulging some of the shameful
secrets of my sordid past, so listen up!).
Good promotional writing involves writing summaries of the
artist's accomplishment in language which the "journalist" to
whom it is sent will be able to use with little or no alteration.
It is standard procedure to write a press release with a variety
of approbative phrasings and to send it to a music writer who is
known to be uncritical, overworked or inattentive; the press
release is retyped and published under the journalist's byline,
and the result is a made-to-order "press quote" which can
subsequently find its way into the musician's press kit. This
is SOP for any competent promotional agency, and accounts
for a lot of "eminent"-s, "celebrated"-s, "outstanding"-s and
"foremost"-s which form a kind of laudatory acne on the features
of many "features" in the popular press.
In 1983 I wrote a brochure for Shivkumar Sharma, who was
then represented in the US by the Ameer Khusro Society of
America (about which I shall say no more). The usual plethora
of vivid descriptive phrases was included, and the whole
prosodic structure was well insulated with a thick layer of
fatty adjectival tissue.
In, I believe, 1997, I read an issue of INDIA CURRENTS which
featured an article on Shivji and his music. Some one of you
may be able to find it somewhere if you look hard enough --
under somebody else's byline, virtually unchanged, was the
original text of my brochure. I got through the first two paragraphs
before twigging to the fact that I'd written it.
On the other hand...
As a former and occasionally current music journalist, I can testify
that when I was writing for deadline, there was almost never time
to do anything more than read the PR material I was sent, listen
to the accompanying music once or twice, and occasionally (very
rarely) do a telephone interview. The pay for this writing is
astonishingly poor, which means that music writers in general
have to do ten or twelve times too many pieces to make any amount
of useful money. I was grateful for well-made promo material,
because it made my job easier (and I was doing the work for a
pittance).
On the third hand...
As a musician, I have tried to keep my promo material accurate
and to avoid hyperbolic phrases whenever possible. But my general
experience has been that misinterpretation of the information
presented is endemic; the more I can control what the journalists
write, the more accurate the subsequent pieces are.
The critic in English who can deal with ICM with the erudition,
clarity and insight of a Gary Giddins has yet to surface. I could do
it, I suppose, if I weren't so damn tired all the time.
Back to renovations...
Warren Senders
Rajan P. Parrikar
>Please reference my post of some years back on "Hippies;"
>you will find a citation of a book entitled "Hippies - a study
>of their drug habits and sexual customs," which, while
>hardly definitive, is at least amusing in parts and titillatious
>in others.
Have you read "Goa Freaks: My Hippie Years in India" by Cleo Odzer?
Warm regards,
r
Jumdn12
rotten taste in the mouth while reading his writing, that there are still
seemingly unevolved humans with a tremendous capacity for vitriolic crudenss.
Framedrums
hippie trash
these dregs
rejects in their own societies
pondscum
Hippie flotsam
these bums
spitting on the pile of garbage
Mr Parrikar,
I have long admired your ability to give a great presentation about the
intricacies of ICM.
However your ability to launch such hatred and vitriol is deplorable.
You should be ashamed.
A person can make an analysis of people who behave in destructive manners or in
questionable moral ways without showing such personal satisfaction in their
seemly lower levels of understanding.
I find your post to be filled with a self righteousness that is misguided and
rather obtuse.
Most sincerely,
Chris
Rajan P. Parrikar
>A person can make an analysis of people who behave in destructive manners or in
>questionable moral ways without showing such personal satisfaction in their
>seemly lower levels of understanding.
>
>I find your post to be filled with a self righteousness that is misguided and
>rather obtuse.
>
>Most sincerely,
>Chris
You have the wrong end of the stick. You ought to go back and
see how this all started. I didn't bring in the matter of a
"Hindu" indulging in "hate crime" and "rape" into this group.
If it is okay for someone to produce a report showing Hindus
to be rapists, casteists, murderers etc, it is alright for me
to point out that the many hippies I have observed are as bad
or worse. If some fella says I am "Dr Shockley" then it is
okay for me to tell the fella what I think of him in turn.
You get the idea.
Warm regards,
r
Bansijeff
hate speech posts to RMIC. I might have tried to prove the existence of Indian
bigotry and racial hatred by means of reasoned logic, but it's so much easier
to simply click on their posts and see it for oneself. As I said before, it's
not hard to see why Indians regularly murder one another wholesale by the 100's
and by the 1000's in communal violence. Just look at the hatred in Parrikar's
RMIC posts. It is my thesis that bigotry, hatred and, indeed, rape and murder,
have become trendy and fashionable in Indian culture today.
For anyone who would like further info on the subject, try the web site
"Nathuram Godse: Homage to a Great Hero" at -
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/1800/index.htm
And "VHP Reviving Sati" at - http://www.alternatives.ca/ceras/15/altnews.htm
A political philosophy which celebrates the assassin of Gandhi and the murder
of women can only be called "barbaric."
Ii has been suggested that I have a darker view of Indian culture than most
Americans. Could be. If that is so, it is because I have known so many Indian
bigots personally. I have done business with them and gotten cheated, and have
also been employed by them for many years - when you see how Indian employers
treat their employees, it's an eye opener. I've even spent many evenings
having long dinners with Rajan Parrikar, listening to him denigrate westerners,
women, Muslims, and "bongs" (Bengalis). Since he paid for some of those
dinners, I kept my mouth shut. But since he flaunts his hatred here on RMIC, I
feel that I must speak up. Now, most Americans who hear Rajan talk about
"bongs" probably think he's talking about those things that are like the
chillums that Indian "holy men" smoke dope from. But I've seen a long
interview in English on TV with Bal Thackery on what BT calls "The Bengali
Problem'' - or from BT's point of view, how to get rid of them. I have a very
good idea what a Shiv Sen sympathizer from Goa means when he calls someone a
"bong."
I think the westerner with the most objective view of Indian culture is the
widow of Graham Staines, who along with his two young sons, was burned to death
by a Hindu mob. Some of the wording for that sentence was taken by me from a
SF Chronicle article titled "Hindu Radicals Claim the Right to Attack
Christians" dated Nov 6 1999. He was killed for the crime of being a Christian
who helped lepers. Whatever Mrs. Staines' view of Indian culture is, I defer to
her superior judgement.
Money from Silicon Valley NRI's is going to India to fund communal violence,
just as 20 years ago California and British Columbian Sikhs funded "Khalistan"
terrorism. The India Literacy Project has to hold fund-raisers to get money,
but the destruction of mosques gets funded without much effort. Every country
has its ignorant bigots, but with the Hindu radicals, they are people with
post-graduate degrees, like Parrikar. I know a lot of Americans who changed
their views of Hinduism when they saw orange-robed swamis driving the
bulldozers into the Babri mosque. It isn't the ignorant who are leading the
acts of hatred in Indian culture today, it's the elite - Phd's and politicians
and religious leaders.
Now that Hindu violence against the Muslim community has reached into my own
hometown, Palo Alto, it is the duty of those who reside here to stand up
against it.
Jeff
naniwadekar
Bansijeff <bans...@aol.com> wrote -
>
> Now that Hindu violence against the Muslim community has reached into
> my own > hometown, Palo Alto, it is the duty of those who reside here to
> stand up > against it.
>
Why don't you do all the standing up in Palo Alto and spare
rmic your idiotic talk ?
> Whatever Mrs. Staines' view of Indian culture is, I defer to
> her superior judgement.
>
Do you know what her view of Indian culture is?
Why don't you withdraw your ads from Indian newspapers
in Bay Area given how much you despise Indian culture? You
have been shameless enough to post your ads there for
years by now. Show your balls.
> when you see how Indian employers
> treat their employees, it's an eye opener.
>
For Lincoln, how the American whites treated their black slaves
was an eye opener. Even today, Mike Tyson can give you his
objective view of American culture. The only person who makes
Tyson look sane is the white American racist that you are, Whittier.
You would do well to defer to Tyson's judgement.
> I've even spent many evenings having long dinners with Rajan Parrikar,
> listening to him denigrate westerners,
> women, Muslims, and "bongs" (Bengalis). Since he paid for some of those
> dinners, I kept my mouth shut.
>
Did you keep your mouth shut about Indians spitting on you
because they also followed it up with kicks on your ass?
It looks like it is your staple diet for both lunch and dinner.
Unfortunately, the ass has been so flattened now that it is difficult
to tell your ass from your balls. Hold your bansuri between
them and maybe someone will be kind enough to oblige you
with kicks on both sides of the bansuri. He whose kicks to
Bansidiot produce the most sonorous sound out of the bansi
will get 'Hare Krishna Bansi-smart Player of the Year' award.
- dn
Rajan P. Parrikar
Jeff Whittier - check into an asylum now that you have
finally gone cuckoo. You poo' hippie donkey, look what
"Indian culture" and those vile "Hindus" did to you.
r
naniwadekar
Warren Senders <war...@aol.comqwerty> wrote -
>
> As a musician, I have tried to keep my promo material accurate
> and to avoid hyperbolic phrases whenever possible. But my general
> experience has been that misinterpretation of the information
> presented is endemic; the more I can control what the journalists
> write, the more accurate the subsequent pieces are.
>
The problem of misinterpretation is real enough and quite rampant;
but it is orthogonal to the doings of the Press. Last year, a Southie
fellow told me that the Film Music Director Ilyaraja (spelling?)
had composed 20,000 songs in 20 years (3 songs per day every
day!!) and that he had been called 'Maestro' by the Italians.
I had been dragged in by others to verify these claims. I am afraid
I had never heard about Ilyaraja until very recently. When I
walked away from the idiotic '20,000 songs' talk, the fan
asked me to have a look at a web page. There the '20,000 claim'
was. Also to be found was this info : 'He collaborated
with Mr ABC to compose music for an Indo-Italian documentary.
Since then he has been called The Maestro.' When I told him
that it could not be concluded from the sentence that Ily. was
called Maestro *by the Italians*, he challenged me to tell him
who called him so. I could not answer his question and he
concluded that Ily. was called Maestro by the Italians only.
I already knew the Southie to be a moron. I was happy that
he started reciprocating the feeling that point on. I was spared
many of his questions.
>
> and go. The quality of their coverage of ICM, or any genre
> for that matter, is dependent on the quality of the writers
> and editors involved.
>
Wow, what an insightful syllogism!! First principles, eh :)
>
> Most "cultural journalists" are subject to deadline pressures
> which preclude making serious study of more than a few
> idioms, and therefore their "articles" are most of the time a
> repackaging of promotional literature which has been sent to
> them or to their editors.
>
If only it were limited to that.
I don't know whether 'cultural journalists' try to gather enough
viewpoints and then reject those which are inconvenient to them
anyway or whether they just don't believe even in making such
'serious' study as even their limited time can surely allow.
I remember hearing BBC devoting 5 minutes to Indian Film
Music around 1985. I could have told the presenter my view
of Film Music in 2 seconds using a single four-letter word : j--k.
But the talk about 'the thriving Bollywood Music Industry blah blah
blah' was quite embarrassing. The presenter's qualification? She
was born in India and spent first 6-7 years there. The subsequent
move to England didn't help either. She is most (in)famous for cutting
off the BBC radio commentary when the 1966 World Cup Football
Final went to extra time. (England beat Germany.)
Even if journalists think that they must remain on the right
side of the performers, it should be possible to do so by
writing non-commitally good stuff. 'Amjad Ali Khan is
widely acclaimed' is okay. It allows the possibility that
maybe it is only Italians who acclaim this Maestro. But does
a writer who knows nothing about Indian music have to
write : 'Amjad is sarod and sarod is Amjad; he is the finest
fruit etc etc etc' ? And is it so hard for the journalists to figure
out who the right people to talk to are when they know they
have no expertise in the topic being covered?
If every journalist must pass judgement on every topic under
the Sun, it should still be possible to go about it in a better
manner than they do. The lack of (desire to apply) common
sense is a bigger problem than the indecent haste the writers
may be forced to operate under.
- dn
naniwadekar
Warren Senders <war...@aol.comqwerty> wrote -
> >
>
> and to avoid hyperbolic phrases whenever possible. But my general
> experience has been that misinterpretation of the information
> presented is endemic; the more I can control what the journalists
> write, the more accurate the subsequent pieces are.
>
Here is an interesting story about the misinterpretation thing.
Before Vladimir Horowitz first performed in England, he was
being hailed as the greatest thing that ever happened to music in some
quarters. Neville Cardus was irritated by this talk. He had liked
such Horowitz recordings as he had heard but he regarded Artur
Schnabel as the best pianist he had heard. Sarcastically he wrote
in his preview of H's England tour in The Manchester Guardian
that Horowitz was the greatest pianist alive. This remark was
taken out of the context and H's concert ads quoted it prominently,
further irritating Cardus. NC heard H's concert, liked it a lot but
still remained a Schnabelite at heart. He again resorted to sarcasm
and wrote that he had not gone far enough in his praise of H before.
He now called him 'the greatest pianist ever, alive or dead'.
Even this remark was promptly picked up and quoted on many
of H's subsequent record releases.
- dn
Framedrums
>see how this all started. I didn't bring in the matter of a
>"Hindu" indulging in "hate crime" and "rape" into this group.
>If it is okay for someone to produce a report showing Hindus
>to be rapists, casteists, murderers etc, it is alright for me
>to point out that the many hippies I have observed are as bad
>or worse. If some fella says I am "Dr Shockley" then it is
>okay for me to tell the fella what I think of him in turn.
>You get the idea.
Good Mr. Parrikar,
Again, I find myself bothered mainly because I have been so edified about my
absolute ignorance of ICM from your outstanding observations and explanations
of ICM.
No, I don't agree in the slightest that if someone else decided to proceed in
being ignorant and making comments about Hindus, as if they personally knew
enough hindus to make such stupid statements, then you should be justified in
doing the same to 'hippies that you've observed as bad or worse'.
Further, I would request that you not mistake this to mean I have favor for
hippies. I do not sit well with hateful generalities and lose respect for
those who engage in them. I wish not to lose respect for you as a person
because I catch you at a moment of venting.
I tend to reserve my criticisms to actions instead of personal attributes, be
they Hindu, hippie, or otherwise.
Best respects,
Chris
Rajan P. Parrikar
>Parrikar writes the following lot of hatred:
>hippie trash
>these dregs
>rejects in their own societies
>pondscum
>Hippie flotsam
>these bums
>spitting on the pile of garbage
>white flotsam
No, Chris, you have the wrong end of the stick. These are
actually terms of endearment for a semi-literate racist
ne'er-do-well like Jeff Whittier and sore losers like him who
greatly resent the fact that Hindus/Indians who have recently
come to America have quickly gotten ahead (God Bless America!)
in every conceivable sphere without ever having to defer to them
in any form or manner, while they themselves scrub the bottom of
the barrel (and I don't mean only in terms of money). It is
alright to speak to them in their own lingua franca.
Warm regards,
r
Garamwkcr
I had missed your posts on this subject earlier; your comments are very
insightful. I think you're quite right to point out that many writers tend to
churn these things out willy-nilly (and financial pressures are often a
rationalization for such "work"). It's a vicious cycle in which lazy PR begets
lazy writing begets yet more lazy PR...
Not to take away all the burden from writers themselves, it's worth mentioning
that highly restricted word counts that reviewers often face (less editorial,
more space for paid ads!) make for poor copy as well. When column space for a
CD review, for example, is limited to 100 or 200 words at best--which is a
pandemic affecting publications from Rolling Stone down to the smallest
magazines--it's hard to say anything of value, besides "So-and-so has relased a
new album of such-and-such." If the writer actually has a measured opinion,
there's no space to elaborate on why he or she feels the way that he or she
does. Hence the regression to sagging, overworn adjectives and cliches.
Subu Ramakrishnan
instrument.
Calling him the 'God of Violin'???? I shall surely stay far from that.
I was truly disappointed this year when I attended his concert this
year in Dallas. Amazingly, the concert probably pulled the largest
crowd this year, but can easily be nominated for the worst concert of
the year.
Subu
bdixit
"Gods" and "Kings" of Hindustani and Karnatic music have lost the
artistic part of their art. They are ONLY interested in the mighty
dollar. And as long as NRIs (or RIs) are willing to dish out large
bundles of the "green stuff" they are going to come here and take the
loot. Instead, invite young but accomplished artistes from India and
listen to them. Support them and their art. Give them a chance. Invite
Ashwni Bhide or Manjiri Asnare-Kelkar instead of Kishori Amonakar
(price" $10,000+, plus a lot of aggravation). Malini Rajurkar, in spite
of her age will be great. Invite Mysore Nagaraj or G. Krishnan for
violin instead of L. Subramaniam. Invite Bombay Jayashree or Aruna
Saeeram or many other very talented Karnatic vocalists. Invite
Purbayan Chatterjee or Buddhaditya Mukherjee or Shahid Parvez instead of
Vilayat Khan and Ravi Shankar. Invite Ronu Majumdar, Rupak Kulkarni
instead of Hariprasad Chaurasia. Invite Vijay Koparkar or Raghunandan
Panshikar or Someresh Chaudhuri or Vinayak Torvi or Venkatesh Kumar
instead of Jasraj and Bhimsen Joshi (?). Listen to some of these younger
musicians who are talented, serious and who are willing to give 110%. .
Stop promoting the concocted "Jugalbandis" at enormous costs. They are
circuses. They are not musical concerts. ......Balwant Dixit.
doogar rajib
> Instead, invite young but accomplished artistes from India and
> listen to them. Support them and their art. Give them a chance. Invite
&
> Listen to some of these younger
> musicians who are talented, serious and who are willing to give 110%. .
Hear hear.
Another name to add to your list: Kushal Das. Heard him in Chicago.
Presented NayakiK followed by Khamaj. Rasa-vibhor, madhur baaj in the
extreme. Sams arrive and are touched with a delicay that puts the
elephant-jumping-on-a-trampoline style of the over-marketed crap
artists you named in your post to shame. Sweet layakaari, none of
that "khatang khatang" reverse-flicking stuff that you here from a lot
of top guns (this was explained to me by a friend who knows a bit
about sitar playing). This was an explosive fire buring smooth as
silk.
Actually, if you can come to Urbana-Champaign on Oct 11, come listen
to this guy ... he's so good that we decided to have him come play and
to hell with the budget (as usual we're worse than broke for the
semester, but with music like that who cares?) Details should go up
at some point on http://www.uiuc.edu/ro/spicmacay. Its free to boot.
On a related note, even some of the names you have suggested have now
become senior enough that they give lazy concerts .. had one here
recently that was stunning in its lack of interest on part of the
musician in doing anything interesting even with staples like Yaman or
Bhairavi.
more later,
rajib
PS. I thought I posted this, but it hasn't appeared yet. Forgive the
double-post in case that's what transpires.
--
Rajib Doogar www.cba.uiuc.edu/doogar
bdixit
You have said," On a related note, even some of the names you have
suggested have now
become senior enough that they give lazy concerts .. had one here
recently that was stunning in its lack of interest on part of the
musician in doing anything interesting even with staples like Yaman
or
Bhairavi."
Why do you not mention the name of the one you had recently? Persons like you, who are knowledable about the music should come out with the name these musicians and point out objectively what is wrong with them. Malinibai, D.K. Datar and a few others, inspite of their age still give A+ performances......Balwant Dixit
doogar rajib
> Another name to add to your list: Kushal Das. Heard him in Chicago.
> Presented NayakiK followed by Khamaj. Rasa-vibhor, madhur baaj in the
^^^^^^^
One who knows his ragas tells me that should have been KaunsiK.
> Actually, if you can come to Urbana-Champaign on Oct 11, come listen
> to this guy ... he's so good that we decided to have him come play and
> to hell with the budget (as usual we're worse than broke for the
> semester, but with music like that who cares?) Details should go up
> at some point on http://www.uiuc.edu/ro/spicmacay. Its free to boot.
cheers,
rajib
--
Rajib Doogar www.cba.uiuc.edu/doogar
Padma Ravikumar
God, she is a joke !!!!
Terrible is not the word to describe her shoutings !!!!
"bdixit" <bdi...@pitt.edu> wrote in message
news:3D920638...@pitt.edu...
bdixit
Daniel Fuchs
>
> Whatever made you think Aruna Sayeeram is "good" ?
> God, she is a joke !!!!
> Terrible is not the word to describe her shoutings !!!!
>
No idea who you've been listening to... Can not have been the real Aruna
Sayeeram...
Daniel
Ramanujam R
> I totally disagree with you......Balwant Dixit
Well, I found her a bit loud too. Atleast in a live concert in Shastri
Hall last year. Thought I'll attend after hearing a decent recording.
Taking the next available tangent...
In general I'm finding most of the concerts horribly loud now,
especially in India. This also has a lot to do with the sound system,
and even in cases where the volume is reasonable, people don't give
time to get used to the sound level, lose patience, and ask the
organizers to increase the volume. The last few concerts in DC -
Trichur Ramachandran, Sowmya, Rama Ravi - were all quite loud. In the
first two cases the concert was quite well organized otherwise - I
could see the efforts that went into the brochures, stage
arrangements, etc. These were however organized in temples, and the
disturbance in the back, food sales, ruined the little concentration
the few could muster.
I recently bought a MiniDisc recorder, and here's what Sony says in
the product catalog -
"Sound can be deceiving. Over time your hearing "comfort level" adapts
to higher volumes of sound which could be harmful to your hearing.
Guard against this by setting your equipment at a safe level BEFORE
your hearing adapts.
To establish a safe level:
Adjust your volume control to a low setting.
Slowly increase the sound until you hear it comfortably and clearly,
and without distortion.
Once you have established a comfortable sound level:
Set the dial and leave it there.
Taking a minute to do this now, will protect your hearing in the
future. After all, we want you listening for a lifetime."
Maybe the organizers can announce a scaled down version of this before
the start of the concert.
A Pavan
> especially in India. This also has a lot to do with the sound system,
> and even in cases where the volume is reasonable, people don't give
> time to get used to the sound level, lose patience, and ask the
> organizers to increase the volume. The last few concerts in DC -
> Trichur Ramachandran, Sowmya, Rama Ravi - were all quite loud. In the
> first two cases the concert was quite well organized otherwise - I
> could see the efforts that went into the brochures, stage
> arrangements, etc. These were however organized in temples, and the
> disturbance in the back, food sales, ruined the little concentration
> the few could muster.
One common reason is that the artists from India are quite clueless about
sound engineering (not that they have to, but some basic principles should
help). They often want the round SM58 mike from Shure regardless of
what instrument they play or whether they are a vocalist - that's all they
know
and that's all they get, especially in India and even here in the US when
the
concerts are held in temple basements. Moreover, artists often do not want
to use stage monitors and rely on the hall sound for feedback. This is just
plain wrong.
Recently I had to deal with Soumya who was in Minneapolis to perform -
first she DID NOT want a sound check AT ALL and then refused to use the
monitors. I got her to agree to the first but it was impossible to convince
her
to use monitors. Many other artists in the past - Shahid Parvez, Ronu
Majumdar,
Budhaditya Mukherjee, Irshad Khan, Mishra Brothers etc. have refused to
use monitors. The only the artists can then hear themselves then is to have
the
hall sound very loud. One of our patrons brought a decibel meter to the
concert
of Ronu Majumdar in 1999 and informed us that the loudness was at 120 dB
at times (even so Ronu kept pushing us to keep jacking up the volume). This
is
the same sound level caused by a jackhammer at work. It did not help that
present day rockster Vijay Ghate was accompanying Ronu on the Tabla.
With difficulty we have managed to convince a few artists to use monitors
and that usually solves the problem of loudness in the hall.
The fact about conditioning of the ear plays a part too - keep listening to
loud music always and soon the ear would want nothing less than real loud,
to consider it acceptable.
Pavan