Tanpura question
Shree
I was listening to Amir Khan's rendition of Basant Mukhari (Album :
Pratidhwani, Vol I, Producer: Music Today) and found a minor issue.
While the whole rendition is excellent, I can hear a constant shuddha
nishaad on the tanpura. The singer himself does not sing shudh ni
anytime (correctly so, to my knowledge). I find this a bit
disconcerting, and the shuddha ni from the tanpura definitely changes
the mood (as compared to listening to Basant Mukhari by Hariprasad
Chaurasia or Malini Rajurkar), given the track is over 40 minutes
long.
I do not know if the tanpura is actually tuned to a shuddha ni or it
is just me hearing the wrong sounds (I've listened to the said track
many times now, and find the shudh ni always lingering around).
Could gunijan shed more light on this?
--Shree
Warren Senders
>is just me hearing the wrong sounds (I've listened to the said track
>many times now, and find the shudh ni always lingering around).
>
>Could gunijan shed more light on this?
Happens all the time with Bhimsenji; he routinely tunes
a shuddh ni even for raags like Malkauns & Darbari. Not
sure about Amir Khan's tuning practice --
is it posible you're getting a 5th partial from the Pa string,
which would generate a shuddh
Ni a couple of octaves higher?
WS
Chith Eshwaran
> is it posible you're getting a 5th partial from the Pa string,
> which would generate a shuddh
> Ni a couple of octaves higher?
>
> WS
Quite possible. The 5th harmonic of mandra Pa is indeed the taar Ni
(shuddh).
If we treat Sa as 1, mandra Pa is 3/4, and its 5th harmonic is 15/4.
Shudha Ni is 15/8; twice this is 15/4, same as the above.
A well made tanpura appears to be capable of producing a very high number of
strong harmonics. There is a paper by Paitosh K. Pandya on his research work
on tanpura sound spectrum (
http://www.tcs.tifr.res.in/~pandya/music/instr/tanpura1.html ) which says
"... the spectrum is very rich in harmonics .. upto 50 such harmonics are
clearly visible".
Regards - Chith Eshwaran
MAUSAM
sang Puriya, Hameer and Sindura without changing the tuning of the tanpura
even once. I think it was tuned to shuddha Ni.
This time when Vinayak Torvi performed in Seattle, he sang bageshree with
one tanpura on shuddha Ni and other on pancham!!!!
Mausam
Shree
> I remember that Ulhas Kashalkar, when he performed in Seattle, last year
> sang Puriya, Hameer and Sindura without changing the tuning of the tanpura
> even once. I think it was tuned to shuddha Ni.
>
> This time when Vinayak Torvi performed in Seattle, he sang bageshree with
> one tanpura on shuddha Ni and other on pancham!!!!
>
> Mausam
>
>
Does anyone know the utility of tuning to a shudh ni for a Malkauns or
Bageshree? It would be too distracting for common folk like me, but
from a different post on RMIC, I am told that the concert was quite
good.
-Shree
Shree
> a shuddh ni even for raags like Malkauns & Darbari.
Sometime ago, I did query Shri Madhava Gudi about BJ's shudh ni
practice, but did not receive a satisfactory reply. He only said that
it was a Kirana peculiarity and that he (Gudi) would rather prefer a
shudh ni only for ragas like Yaman, Multani and Pooriya.
In one Madhava Gudi concert I had been to, Shri Gudi had tuned one
tanpura to shudh ni and another to pa. But the khayal of the concert
was in Yaman.
>Not
> sure about Amir Khan's tuning practice --
> is it posible you're getting a 5th partial from the Pa string,
> which would generate a shuddh
> Ni a couple of octaves higher?
>
> WS
Very much possible. The shudh ni is more emphasized during a return
to madhya sa from say, Ga ma re or dha ni re.
--Shree
Warren Senders
>> a shuddh ni even for raags like Malkauns & Darbari.
>
>Sometime ago, I did query Shri Madhava Gudi about BJ's shudh ni
>practice, but did not receive a satisfactory reply. He only said that
>it was a Kirana peculiarity and that he (Gudi) would rather prefer a
>shudh ni only for ragas like Yaman, Multani and Pooriya.
>
>In one Madhava Gudi concert I had been to, Shri Gudi had tuned one
>tanpura to shudh ni and another to pa. But the khayal of the concert
>was in Yaman.
I asked Madhav about this in 1985, with particular reference to
Malkauns. He replied, "Guruji says that you must BECOME
Malkauns...then there will be no difficulty."
Oh....kay....
WS
Manohar Bodas
were they tuned?? and the reson for six stings??
And Tanboora is a Farsi word. Many still use it in Maharashra esp.
When did it become Tanpura??
MB
maz...@hotmail.com (Shree) wrote in message news:<cb799687.03040...@posting.google.com>...
Praful Kelkar
> A well made tanpura appears to be capable of producing a very high number of
> strong harmonics. There is a paper by Paitosh K. Pandya on his research work
> on tanpura sound spectrum (
> http://www.tcs.tifr.res.in/~pandya/music/instr/tanpura1.html ) which says
> "... the spectrum is very rich in harmonics .. upto 50 such harmonics are
> clearly visible".
Enjoyed reading this brief paper. Hopefully there will be more
studies on the mystery of taanpura and its psychoacoustics!
As per BJji's comment about "becoming malkauns" - the way he can sing
it (RP puts it poetically - only two mortal were allowed to look over
the shoulders as God created malkauns - one being BJ), there must be
something deep, altho' it doesn't clarify what. Shuddha Ni
emphasizes komal gandhar, which is great for chandrakauns!
Praful
Itu Chaudhuri
>
> Happens all the time with Bhimsenji; he routinely tunes
> a shuddh ni even for raags like Malkauns & Darbari.
...and so it came to pass that one day I had the great good fortune of
being present at a studio recording of Ramashreya Jha. As I was being
ushered, all agog, into the presence, tanpuras were being tuned and
shop-talk centred around tuning.
And it was thus that Jha-ji quoth [translated]: "50 years ago, the
practice of tuning tanpuras to nishad was not prevalent. Singers whoud
sing even Puria beautifully with a pancham tuned tanpura. Someone
started it, and it has become fashionable today. I remember a
performance [AIR national programme, IIRC-Itu] by Ganpatrao Behrebuwa
[again, IIRC--Itu] when he sang Darbari with a nishad tuned tanpura.
In the Alap he sang 'ni sa re dha.............' and the tanpura went
'ni.........'. [Soft chuckle] .It sounds odd... doesn't fit right."
Hindi available on request, from memory. Like Chevalier, I remember
it well. Perhaps them what Keep the Tapes can post a clip if the mikes
were on and the tapes were running at the time, something I neglected
to notice.
Itu
naniwadekar
"Warren Senders" <war...@aol.comqwerty> wrote -
> >
> >In one Madhava Gudi concert I had been to, Shri Gudi had tuned one
> >tanpura to shudh ni and another to pa. But the khayal of the concert
> >was in Yaman.
>
> I asked Madhav about this in 1985, with particular reference to
> Malkauns. He replied, "Guruji says that you must BECOME
> Malkauns...then there will be no difficulty."
>
> Oh....kay....
>
Mr Gudi probably decided to 'become Bhimsen' as often
as he can in the hope that if he could become Bhimsen and
Bhimsen could become Malkauns, by transitivity Mr Gudi
would also manage to become Malkauns. How admirably
noble of him! And how cruel of the world at large to suspect
Mr Gudi of less worthy motives in trying to become Bhimsen!
But, Warren, do *you* find it distracting to hear Bhimsen sing
Malkauns with tanpura tuned to shuddha nishhad? Mr Shree
Fitb_his_surname_here says he would. I remember a post by
you (you=warren) which had said that you would retune
a tanpura using pancham after the first raag if the second raag
was planned to be a longish Marwa but not bother to retune
it if the following Marwa piece was planned to be a short one.
(I don't remember whether the example given was specifically
about Marwa but this was its thrust. Tune again for longer piece,
but maybe continue without retuning for a short piece.)
- dn
Manohar Bodas
This is regarding Mr. Devasthali. I was sorry to learn that he is no
more. We used to call hin Bandya and yes his father was Sanskri Prof
in HPT college. We lost touch with eachother and thensuddenly met
during a concert. I remember him telling me that he ran away from home
and wen to Lucknow to learn Music from Gajananrao. I used to call him
once in a way but was sorry to learn he is no more. I met him with
Annasahb Tarlekar who was also a music critic.
His father had visited Khatmandoo for Sanskrit research.
MB
Warren Senders
>Malkauns with tanpura tuned to shuddha nishhad?
No, I just listen to Bhimsen being Malkauns, and it's not
a problem.
>I remember a post by
>you (you=warren) which had said that you would retune
>a tanpura using pancham after the first raag if the second raag
>was planned to be a longish Marwa but not bother to retune
>it if the following Marwa piece was planned to be a short one.
>(I don't remember whether the example given was specifically
>about Marwa but this was its thrust. Tune again for longer piece,
>but maybe continue without retuning for a short piece.)
That is correct; in fact I did just that in a recent Mumbai mehfil:
Yaman, followed by Marwa -- tamboura remaining on pancham
throughout.
WS
Warren Senders
final days were marked by illness, which stilled his voice and
clouded his memory sometimes. But his voice remains
with any who were fortunate enough to hear him sing or
teach. It has been almost ten months now; I still miss him
enormously.
WS
Shree
> I remember Ameerkhan used to have six strings for his Tanpura. How
> were they tuned?? and the reson for six stings??
> And Tanboora is a Farsi word. Many still use it in Maharashra esp.
> When did it become Tanpura??
>
> MB
It is Tamboori in kannada as well, (and Tamboora in tamil and telugu, IIRC).
-Shree
naniwadekar
"Manohar Bodas" <bod...@yahoo.com> wrote -
>
> This is regarding Mr. Devasthali. I was sorry to learn that he is no
>
Did you discuss music with Devasthali Buwa, Bodas? Or do
we add your acquaintance with him to the list of your stellar
achievements in the field of music : Bodas knew Kumar Gandharva.
Bodas had coffee with Alla Rakha once. Bodas calls Pandharinath
Kolhapure Pandhari and Devasthali Buwa Bandya and one of the
S V Gokhales Chhotu Gokhale. Very impressive, Bodas. Other
people can learn so many things from you and you have so much
to offer. Bokads, post a list of musical personalities with whom
you have had tea. Have fun, Manoo.
One day, we children will be able to recall with pride that we
knew Manohar Bodas and called him Manoo Brodass.
- dn
naniwadekar
"Warren Senders" <war...@aol.comqwerty> wrote -
>
> fortunate enough to hear him sing or teach.
>
How about making some clips in Devasthali Buwa's voice
available for online streaming in real-format or downloading
as mp3 files?
- dn
Warren Senders
>> more. We used to call hin Bandya ...
>>
>
>Did you discuss music with Devasthali Buwa, Bodas?
Nani, I don't care if you choose to waste bandwidth
bickering with Bodas. That is your prerogative.
But please leave my Guruji out of it; he was too dignified
a personality to enjoy association with your childish
name-calling.
WS
Warren Senders
>> fortunate enough to hear him sing or teach.
>>
>
>How about making some clips in Devasthali Buwa's voice
>available for online streaming in real-format or downloading
>as mp3 files?
No software, no time. Eventually.
WS
naniwadekar
"Warren Senders" <war...@aol.comqwerty> wrote -
>
> bickering with Bodas. That is your prerogative.
> But please leave my Guruji out of it; he was too dignified
> a personality to enjoy association with your childish
> name-calling.
>
However that might be, since I had not made any comment
on Devasthalibuwa, I can only say you are being childish-ly
sensitive. Whether or not it is a clever question to ask
a Shiv bhakta whether his deity is obliged to piss occasionally
or do without it altogether, I do find some amusement in that
such questions hurt the bhaktas. And before television made
faces of big names commonplace, some believers used to get
hurt at the suggestion that even Tilak and Gandhi have only
two hands and two legs and some even genuinely believed
that they must be 15-feet tall giants in person. How are you
being any different from these super-sensitive souls?
- dn
Manohar Bodas
your comments were as obnoxious as you and your earlier posts. You
will never understand what feelings are. You are cultuarally naked.
Devasthalibua was never Bua to me and friends always remember the way
we called each other. Of course you were and and being remembered the
way you write.
so if you have not met anybody it is not your fault. It is the way you
are. People avoid you like plague. please ask the same questions to
your parents or people around you. Yes human beings have one head but
your head is full upto brim with shit.
MB
naniwadekar
>
Oh yes, Manoo. What a feather in your cap!
> and friends always remember the way > we called each other.
> Of course you were and and being remembered the
> way you write.
>
Brodass, you will always be remembered for your beautifully
messy writing style and your sublime (lack of) comprehension
skills. Keep entertaining the forum, Manoo. Have fun.
- dn
Manohar Bodas
Does Pandhari's Book still has what you claim you Pig.
MB
Dhenuvallabh The Pig garbage purged and flushed
Manohar Bodas
which Panchmi or Shashti was Kumar born??
Look up your Tembe Book. May be you will come up something with your Pig Brain.
And what about Pandhari when was he born.
Come up with something original You Pig and then Mia Culpa without any shame
MB
naniwadekar
> Does Pandhari's Book still has what you claim you Pig.
>
> MB
>
How is life, Manohar?
How did your ride on the wooden horse go today? Any falls
from the horse or minor slips to report, Manoo? Practise
hard. One day you may manage to do well on your horse.
Which famous figure did you have for company for lunch
today, Bokads? Did you enjoy Gobi Paratha?
- dn
Manohar Bodas
Yes but since you were constanly behind the horse to collect your fooood
it was very entertaining. Looks like you have shifted from Pig Shit to Leed.
And I heard you were born on Sarvapitri Amavsya. Real Mia Culpa for your parents.
Manohar
>
Rajan P. Parrikar
>Hindi available on request, from memory. Like Chevalier, I remember
>it well. Perhaps them what Keep the Tapes can post a clip if the mikes
Have software, have time, but alas don't have the tape.
Warm regards,
r