Tarana
Augustus T. White
This last weekend I was playing a tape in my car with #3 son. The
performance was by a vocalist who shall remain nameless, so as to avoid
inflating egos, except to say that he's from Boston, likes bad puns and
frequently contributes to RMIC. My son declared that this was his
very favorite raga, I think because of the lively and interesting Tarana.
Very few of the recordings I have include taranas at all, much less good
ones. What performers (other than Warren), gharanas and recordings
should I be looking for if I wish to continue to impress impressionable
youth with this particular technique?
--Toby White
Bansijeff
On the subject of tarana, Nisar Hussain Khan was famous for his taranas but
you'll have a hard time finding any recordings. In the current generation Veena
Sahasrabhuddhe speciallizes in tarana, in fact I think she got her doctorate in
tarana. Modern vocalists tend to blur the distinction between tarana and chota
kheyal and simply do chota kheyals with bols for a text. The older generation
had better layakari (rhythmic skill) and developed the pieces with more rhythm
in mind, a little echo of good dhrupad (not like some modern dhrupadis who are
all alap and no layakari).
Jeff Whittier
WARVIJ
Music Today has recently released a series of
cassettes (CDs too?) containing only Taranas.
Ulhas Kashalkar and Veena Sahasrabuddhe are
both represented; both also present khyal-numa,
which are vilambit-laya taranas.
These are unfortunately devoid of any interesting
layakari at all; they seem to be a way to do raag-
vistar without having to worry about text
enunciation. I have heard more interesting
rhythmic variation in vilambit khyals from Gajananrao
Joshi and Krishnarao Shankar Pandit, to name two.
It's too bad; the potential for layakari in vilambit
is immense.
Even in drut laya, the use of various complex rhythmic
patterns in tarana syllables is increasingly rare. I
consider myself fortunate that my guruji took great
delight in this type of improvisation, and trained me
meticulously... in having fun while singing!
Thanks for your kind comments, Toby. If all goes
well I'll have a new recording released before the
end of the summer; I imagine you and your son will
find it enjoyable.
Cheers,
Warren
Rajan P. Parrikar
In article <199803182009...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
bans...@aol.com (Jeff Whittier) writes:
>On the subject of tarana, Nisar Hussain Khan was famous for his taranas but
>you'll have a hard time finding any recordings. In the current generation Veena
>Sahasrabhuddhe speciallizes in tarana, in fact I think she got her doctorate in
>tarana.
VeenaS' skills in tarAnA must be highly classified since they are not easily
discernable. Pending declassification we must put her in the same category
of "modern vocalists" that you cite below. The tarAnA series released some
years back by Music Today (?) (it had people like VeenaS, Padma Talwalkar and
Ulhas Kashalkar etc) was a joke. Standard chota kHayAls stripped of text
and peddled for tarAnAs.
Perhaps the doctorate was in the history of tarAnA and that sort of thing
where you can plot lots of colour graphs, pie-charts, maps and throw in a few
tables on the side.
>Modern vocalists tend to blur the distinction between tarana and chota
>kheyal and simply do chota kheyals with bols for a text. The older generation
>had better layakari (rhythmic skill) and developed the pieces with more rhythm
>in mind, a little echo of good dhrupad (not like some modern dhrupadis who are
>all alap and no layakari).
That would depend on the bANi. You don't want to hear too many distracting
things in a dhrupad of, say, the shuddha bANi. In any case the Gundecha
Brothers, who are modern dhrupadiyas, display marvellous skills in both AlApi
and layakAri. Same for Uday Bhawalkar, another product of the Dagar school.
The "all-AlAp" brigade comprises those who have never had formal training in
dhrupad (or limited at best) but who merely want to feign width of ability.
Which modern dhrupadiyas did you have in mind?
Re. Toby White's query: the best sources for tarAnA (or tarAnA-like singing)
are the Agra dudes. Latafat, Sharafat and others have several recordings which
one could hear on the AIR. Even the usual Agra kHayAl (in the older recordings)
use the vigorous nom-tom style of AlAp. The gharANA is (alas) almost moribund
today and we have been reduced to enduring the horse-like singing of Lalith
Rao and the like.
Warm regards,
r
Subhash Phatak
Augustus T. White wrote:
What performers (other than Warren), gharanas and recordings
should I be looking for if I wish to continue to impress impressionable
youth with this particular technique?
--Toby White
This is a really good question. I have a private recording of Smt.
Prabha Atre, in raaga Jogkauns, which has a very good quality TaraaNaa.
I have heard Malini Rajurkar presenting taraaNaa admirably. I will have
to go over my small collection to see if I do have any outstanding
taraaNaa recordings.
In good old days, Pt. Vinayakrao Patwardhan was the master of this
singing style. I believe Pt. Mallikarjun Mansoor has good renderings of
taraaNaa. Prabhaakar Karekar also sings forceful taraaNaa. It will be
good idea to get more information on this topic. Thanks for bringing it
up.
Subhash
Mandar Mitra
Adding to Jeff Whittier's recommendation of Nisar Hussain Khan
and Veena Shahasrabuddhe:
Amir Khan - taranas in Hamsaddhwani, Bageshri, Megh, Shudh Kalyan
readily available commercially; also, Malkauns, Abhogi.
Rashid Khan - taranas in Yaman, Behag, Hameer, Sohini (?). He might
have learnt some of these from Nisar Hussain Khan.
Ulhas Kashalkar - khayalnuma and tarana in Malkauns.
You might also find something interesting in the "Tarana" series
released by Music Today. Featured artists are Veena S., Ulhas K.,
Rajan and Sajan Mishra and possibly others. Hopefully someone will
post details with comments.
mandar.
nataraj
Pandit Vinayk Rao Patwardhan and Narayan Rao Vyas's taranas are top
notch. Unfortunately, there recordings are few and far between. Also
heard good taranas from Salamat Ali Khan
raj
Bansijeff
Rajan writes:
>VeenaS' skills in tarAnA must be highly classified since they are not easily
>discernable. Pending declassification we must put her in the same category
>of "modern vocalists" that you cite below. The tarAnA series released some
>years back by Music Today (?) (it
>had people like VeenaS, Padma Talwalkar and
>Ulhas Kashalkar etc) was a joke. Standard chota kHayAls stripped of text
>and peddled for tarAnAs.
>
>Perhaps the doctorate was in the history of tarAnA and that sort of thing
>where you can plot lots of colour
>graphs, pie-charts, maps and throw in a few
>tables on the side.
Gee, Rajan, I guess that means you don't like her. I once heard her give a
lecture-demo and found her to be exceptionally knowledgeable on the subject of
tarana bandishes. You could learn something from her.
My comment on "modern vocalists" was specifically inspired by a concert of the
Misra Bros. which you and I attended together in which they performed a tarana
in Rageshree as I remember and in the middle of the performance the older
brother said "We learned this vistar from our guru" and proceeded to do the
only vistar of the entire piece which showed the masterful layakari to which we
are all referring, the rest being chota kheyal ideas performed with percussion
bols as text. I think we all agree this is the general trend today.
.
Best regards, Jeff Whittier
Jeff Whittier
Rajan P. Parrikar
Shri Jeff Whittier (bans...@aol.com) writes:
> Gee, Rajan, I guess that means you don't like her.
Namashkar, Shri Whittier.
I didn't say or imply that, therefore your guess is wrong.
> I once heard her give a
> lecture-demo and found her to be exceptionally knowledgeable on the subject of
> tarana bandishes.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It isn't clear from this or your last post what exactly it is that you find
laudable in Ms Sahasrabuddhe. Is it her alleged ability in tarAnA-gAyaki or
is it the allegedly inexhaustible stock of tarAnA bandishes in her possession
or both? Without meaning to get into any logomachy, I would like to suggest
that the two are not synonymous nor does one imply the other.
As to the first claim, I have a difference of opinion. There is no evidence
in her commercial/concert/radio recordings of any formidable skills in tarAnA
singing. She exhibits neither proclivity nor flair for arresting layakAri
even in her kHayAl renditions, vestiges of which one would expect to find
in someone allegedly exceptional or expert in tarAnA-gAyaki. The Music India
tarAnA series afforded an excellent opportunity to showcase her allegedly
astounding tarAnA-skills but as far as I recall (and Shri Senders' corroborates
in his rejoinder) she, along with several others, chose to pass up.
As to her being "exceptionally knowledgeable," I do not know one way or the
other. I have not had occasion to interact with or cross-examine her which
is the surest way of guaging someone's knowledge. Neither have I read anything
written by her which would allow an estimate of her mental wherewithal.
Perhaps a coup d'oeil over her doctoral thesis (hopefully containing pie
charts et. al and at least one Appendix) may help formulate a definitive opinion
on the issue. Not infrequently have I found that someone, say XYZ, accused
of being "exceptionally knowledgeable" on closer scrutiny turns out to be in
possession of a rather modest fund of knowledge than what was originally
asserted. Much to the embarrassment of everyone concerned, further investigation
reveals that the sole criterion used by the accuser was no more than "XYZ
knows more than I do." I must therefore defer judgment on Ms Sahasrabuddhe's
alleged "exceptional knowledge." This is, of course, not intended to offend the
many devout followers of Sahashrabuddhism or cast aspersion on its tenets.
> You could learn something from her.
And did you?
Well, you could also learn something from the following three tarAnA
bandishes that are offered free. They are simple in form but very instructive.
We will post more challenging material (time and weather permitting, as
always) if there's interest. Taranas provide free reign to composers to
engage in layakAric devices such as 'virtual sam' (where the "sam" of the bandish
is not coincident with that of the tAla) or syncopation by appropriate
placement of the 'weights' of the syllables vis-a-vis the tAla or introduction
of a parallel laya out-of-phase with the tAla and so on.
The first two compositions are due to the late Ratnakant Ramnathkar. Ratnakantbuwa
was from the Agra school, a disciple of Vilayat Hussein Khan, and a repository
of rAgas and traditional bandishes of that gharANA. He was also a master
composer, prolific in output, especially of tarAnAs. Whatever came forth from this
supreme musical mind was beautifully formulated. The catch was that you didn't
want to hear him sing the stuff in his awful voice. A few minutes in the company
of Ratnakantbuwa's vocals and he will have cured you of your hernia-free existence.
The numbers are in rAgas Shivmat Bhairav and Gaud Sarang. The first is a
pedagogically useful composition for elucidation of a rather abstruse rAga.
Ratnakantbuwa has distilled the essence and poured it into his bandish set to
JhaptAla. The Gaud Sarang piece is enmeshed in drut ADA ChautAla and will need
some familiarity with that tAla (provided in the Appendix).
The third tarAnA is from the Gwalior school, composed by Narayanrao Patwardhan,
an adept in tarAnA-gAyaki; it is in Raga Nand (also known as Anand, Anandi,
Anandi Kalyan or Nand Kalyan - take your pick). The mukhDA is particularly
interesting for its interplay (albeit limited) with the tAla. (The Gwalior dudes
- Vishnu Digambar-ji, Vazebuwa, KRS Pandit, Vinayakrao Patwardhan etc - have
composed tarAnAs in high volume and it is possible that Ms Sahasrabuddhe has
imbibed a fraction of that.)
Corrections and comments welcome, typos please keep to yourself (unless
they occur below this line).
Warm regards,
r
Key:
(1) All shuddha notes in caps; M = shuddha madhyam
(2) The " and ' following a note denotes its tAr-saptak and mandra-
saptak affiliation, respectively.
(3) The grace note is enclosed in parenthesis of the type () and it
operates on the note immediately following it.
*****
(1) Raga Shivmat Bhairav
Tala: JhaptAla (madhya laya)
Composer: Ratnakant Ramnathkar
(Brief note about the rAga: A prakAr of Bhairav, with the
following possible Aroha/avaroha set:
A/A: S r G M P d (N)S"::S" (N)d P, d n d P M G M (M)r, r g r S
Mallikarjun Mansur's renditions are hard to beat in this one.)
dir dir tanana dir dir tanana
tadre dAre tadAni
nAdir dir dir tanana tun dir dir
tA re ta dAni
dIm dIm ta dIm tanana
tAre tadAre ta dAni
nAdir dir dir tanana tun dir dir
tA re ta dAni
Asthaie:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
d P M G M r (r)g r S S
dir dir ta na na dir dir ta na na
N' d' (d')S - r r (r)g r - S
ta dre dA . re ta . dA . ni
S S (M)G G M P P d d P
nA dir dir dir ta na na tun dir dir
S" - (n)d n d P MP M (M)G M
tA . re . ta dA .. ni . .
Antara:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
G -M d -d (N)d (N)S" -S" S" S" S"
dI......m dI......m ta dI......m ta na na
d (N)d S" S" S" (S")N S" d d P
tA re ta dA re ta . dA . ni
S S (M)G G M P P d d P
nA dir dir dir ta na na tun dir dir
S" - (n)d n d P MP M (M)G M
tA . re . ta dA .. ni . .
*****
(2) Raga Gaud Sarang
Tala: ADA ChautAla (drut laya) *see Appendix below*
Composer: Ratnakant Ramnathkar
tA dAre tana derenA ta derenA derenA
tanananana ta dAre
nA dir dir tanana tun dir dir tanananana
tadiyana tadiyana tA dAni
dhA kiTa taka dhum kiTa taka taka dhum kiTa taka taka dhum kiTa taka
dhi kDAn taka dhA ti dhA dhA
Asthaie:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
G - S R S
tA . dA . re
G R M M G - - P M M G G G M
ta na de re nA . . ta de re nA de re nA
R G R M G P (G)R - S
ta na na na na ta dA . re
Antara:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
G M P N S" S" S" S" S" S" S" R" S" S"
nA dir dir ta na na tun dir dir ta na na na na
D P N S" S"(N)R" S" D N (D)P - M - G
ta di ya na ta di ya na . tA - dA - ni
S N' S G M G Dm P D P S" (N)R" S" S"
dhA kiTa taka dhum kiTa taka taka dhum kiTa taka taka dhum kiTa taka
M (G)P -M M G M G - G
dhi kDA..n taka dhA ti dhA . dhA
*****
(3) Raga Nand
Tala: TeentAla (ati-drut laya)
Composer: Narayanrao Patwardhan
tAnA dir dir dAni dAni tadAni
ni ta tana tanana derenA derenA derenA
ata tana derenA dIm tana derenA
nA dir dir tun dir dir dir dir dir dir tadAni
dAni tadAni dAni
Asthaie:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
G - M D P (M)R - S N' S
tA . nA dir dir dA . ni dA ni
G G - M - - G M P D N (D)P P D m P
ta dA - ni . . ni ta ta na ta na na de re nA
G M (D)P R R S
de re nA de re nA
Antara:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
P P S" S" S" S" S" - S" -S" S" S" (N)R" N (N)D P
a ta ta na de re nA . dI....m ta na de re nA .
G" M" P" R" S" R" S" N (N)D N D P (P)m P G M
nA dir dir tun dir dir dir dir dir dir ta dA . ni dA ni
D P (P)m P R S
ta dA . ni dA ni
*****
Appendix:
ADA ChautAla:
1 2 |3 4 | 5 6 | 7 8 | 9 10 | 11 12 | 13 14
dhin trak|dhi nA | tu nA | kat ta | trak dhi | nA dhi | dhi nA
+ # 0 # 0 # 0
+ --> sam
# --> tALi
0 --> kHAli
A.Pavan
In article <6eqk19$2...@lace.colorado.edu>,
Rajan P. Parrikar <parr...@rococo.Colorado.EDU> wrote:
>Shri Jeff Whittier (bans...@aol.com) writes:
>
>> Gee, Rajan, I guess that means you don't like her.
>
>Namashkar, Shri Whittier.
>
>I didn't say or imply that, therefore your guess is wrong.
>
>> I once heard her give a
>> lecture-demo and found her to be exceptionally knowledgeable on the subject of
>> tarana bandishes.
Her (Veena S's) taranas may not qualify as supremely explosive in layakari or
perhaps fall short of your "intellectual meter" whatever that might be, but
I still find them eminently listenable, at least way better than the rest
of the field. At least she tries and sings them in a variety of taals
unlike the standard "madhya-laya teen taal gharana" to which most other
contemporaries belong. And most of the times these are taranas composed by the
late KAshinath Bodas and Balwantrai Bhatt, highly respected artists. So it
is in fact their bandishes that you criticize. Heck, for that matter, Bhimsen
Joshis taranas are no great shakes either. Plain and insipid with not even
traces of any layakari.
Layakari has its place but is it the only thing that distinguishes it
from a Khayal bandish ? Dudes like Jasraj sometimes resort to pure
layakari (aided by master blaster Zakir Hussain and sometimes Swapan C.)
much to the amusement of general public. This he does in his Khayal
compositions. From a layakari alone standpoint I must admit they are
sometimes interesting but musically they are not appealing. I have never
heard him sing taranas though.
Are there any commercial recordings of Vinayak Rao Patwardhan ? I would
love to get my hands on them.
Pavan
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Bansijeff
Rajan - thanks for the bandishes. I think your ridicule of Veena's Doctorate
is a cheap shot - especially coming from you, Herr Doktor. Her degree was in
performance, not musicology. She's not what you make her out to be. And yes,
I did learn something about tarana from her lecture-demo, that's why I
mentioned her.
Jeff Whittier
Rajan P. Parrikar
In article <6er2o3$k...@epx.cis.umn.edu> pa...@cs.umn.edu (A.Pavan) writes:
>In article <6eqk19$2...@lace.colorado.edu>,
>Her (Veena S's) taranas may not qualify as supremely explosive in layakari or
>perhaps fall short of your "intellectual meter" whatever that might be, but
>I still find them eminently listenable, at least way better than the rest
>of the field. At least she tries and sings them in a variety of taals
>unlike the standard "madhya-laya teen taal gharana" to which most other
>contemporaries belong. And most of the times these are taranas composed by the
>late KAshinath Bodas and Balwantrai Bhatt, highly respected artists. So it
>is in fact their bandishes that you criticize. Heck, for that matter, Bhimsen
Quickly and for the last time:
(1) Perhaps her tarAnAs are eminently listenable; I have no quarrel on that
point. My only contention is that she displays no particular aptitude
and skills in and for layakAri/tarAnA type gAyaki. Nothing that can qualify
as "outstanding", "exceptional" etc.
(2) I have said nothing about the bandishes per se of Kashinath Bodas
and Balwantrai Bhatt; in fact, I recall that in the past I have mentioned
the creative abilities of these gentlemen in a very positive light.
Warm regards,
r
Rajan P. Parrikar
In article <199803191649...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
bans...@aol.com (Jeff Whittier) writes:
>Rajan - thanks for the bandishes. I think your ridicule of Veena's Doctorate
>is a cheap shot - especially coming from you, Herr Doktor. Her degree was in
>performance, not musicology.
Be that as it may, are we to accept your claim without examination,
particular when the evidence does not support you as regards her
performance? Why?
Should it happen that in the future Ms Sahasrabuddhe exhibits the
skills (which are currently in the realm of fiction) I will have no
hesitation reversing my opinion.
>She's not what you make her out to be.
I thought exactly the same of your assessment. That you went overboard
in ascribing to Ms Sahasrabuddhe's non-existent abilities and powers
in tarAnA/layakAri.
Finally: This is not an impugnation of her as a vocalist and of her
abilities in kHayAl.
Warm regards,
r
A.Pavan
>other. I have not had occasion to interact with or cross-examine her which
>is the surest way of guaging someone's knowledge. Neither have I read anything
>written by her which would allow an estimate of her mental wherewithal.
>Perhaps a coup d'oeil over her doctoral thesis (hopefully containing pie
>of being "exceptionally knowledgeable" on closer scrutiny turns out to be in
>possession of a rather modest fund of knowledge than what was originally
>asserted. Much to the embarrassment of everyone concerned, further
>investigation
>reveals that the sole criterion used by the accuser was no more than "XYZ
>knows more than I do." I must therefore defer judgment on Ms Sahasrabuddhe's
>alleged "exceptional knowledge." This is, of course, not intended to offend the
>many devout followers of Sahashrabuddhism or cast aspersion on its tenets.
Rajan,
It is clear you don't like her. That is a give away,
considering your condescending analysis of her PhD thesis which you allege
is laced with triteness and mediocrity. Not everyone in the world is as
enlightened you know.
Perhaps you could spend some time reading her thesis and then come
back and give us the whole nine yards of your ridicule. That would be only
fair.
>> You could learn something from her.
>
>And did you?
>
>Well, you could also learn something from the following three tarAnA
>bandishes that are offered free.
More of that condescending stance.
Is it your opinion then that the present crop of singers (the whole
load of them, including the many "hyphenated-marathi-babes" as you have
called them in the past) are at the bottom of the intellectual food chain
and especially so in tarana ? I for one find Ashwini Bhide and Veena S
quite appealing.
Oh well ...
Rajan P. Parrikar
In article <6es84b$2...@epx.cis.umn.edu>, pa...@cs.umn.edu (A. Pavan) writes:
> It is clear you don't like her.
How so?
>That is a give away,
>considering your condescending analysis of her PhD thesis which you allege
>is laced with triteness and mediocrity. Not everyone in the world is as
>enlightened you know.
I have not alleged the things you claim. I agree wholeheartedly with
your second sentence.
> Perhaps you could spend some time reading her thesis and then come
>back and give us the whole nine yards of your ridicule.
I regret that you are emotionally upset, Pavan-ji. As I said earlier,
I mean no disrespect to Sahasrabuddhists. I will, in all likelihood, read
the thesis and Inshallah ferret out at least one scarp that would be
worthy of ridicule:-). But look at the obverse side: you and your
fellow Sahashrabuddhists will then have to concede that I have at least
read the thing as opposed to your just waving it around as proof of
knowledge.
>>Well, you could also learn something from the following three tarAnA
>>bandishes that are offered free.
>
> More of that condescending stance.
Yes, bad boy. I hope you liked the bandishes though.
> Is it your opinion then that the present crop of singers (the whole
>load of them, including the many "hyphenated-marathi-babes" as you have
>called them in the past) are at the bottom of the intellectual food chain
No.
>and especially so in tarana ?
I can only say that VeenaS does not exhibit any special penchant
for tarAnA-gAyaki/layakAri that would distinguish her from the
rest of the tarAnA=chota khayAl peddlers.
>I for one find Ashwini Bhide and Veena S
>quite appealing.
So do I. The girls sing very good kHayAl and are first-rate vocalists.
Warm regards,
r
Augustus T. White
A.Pavan wrote:
> Layakari has its place but is it the only thing that distinguishes it
> from a Khayal bandish ?
I speak perhaps from ignorance of the subject, but what other excuse is
there for abandoning the words of the khayal and singing bols?
--Toby White
Bansijeff
Rajan-
your statement
>I regret that you are emotionally upset, Pavan-ji.
is another cheap shot. Like a punch-drunk fighter , with each posting your
blows become lower and lower.
In your previous posting you say to me "you went overboard in ascribing to MS.
Sahasrabuddhe non-existent abilities and powers in tanAnA/layakari." Actually,
I never said ONE WORD of this. He who needs to mis-quote his debating opposite
in order to make points has already lost the debate. You seem very comfortable
mis-representing the veiws of others. I actually praised her knowledge of
tarana bandishes, which you could benefit from.
Did anyone else notice that the bandish which Rajan cites in Gaud Sarang breaks
the rag in the second line of the antara? I studied this rag with Ali Akbar,
Ramnarain and Rajeevev Taranath and none would take the phrase S"(N)R"S"D N(D)P
- S"D N(D)P isn't good Gaud Sarang. So I thought "maybe its a gharana
variant" and went to listen to DV Paluskar's "Piyu Pelena Lagi" which has been
one of my favorite pieces since Ali Akbar taught this bandish in our flute
class in 1972. Nope, he doesn't do it either. What did you do, get this out
of some book? Maybe its a typo you are enshrining for all posterity. Or maybe
you got snookered by good ole Panditji who deliberately let out an inferior
version of his bandish while keeping the good one for his favored disciples -
those ole Panditji's love to do that one.
In any case, Veena's method of research, which was to go out and actually learn
tarana bandishes from those who composed them, and pass the test of actually
performing them back to the composer right in front of him, is far superior to
your own method of taking stuff from books. Your ridicule of her PHD is
absurd.
Jeff Whittier
Rajan P. Parrikar
Shri Jeff Whittier (bans...@aol.com) writes:
> Rajan-
> your statement
>
> >I regret that you are emotionally upset, Pavan-ji.
>
> is another cheap shot. Like a punch-drunk fighter, with each posting your
> blows become lower and lower.
Now that you have shown that you are no slouch either re. cheap
shots let's move on to the rest of your post.
> In your previous posting you say to me "you went overboard in ascribing to MS.
> Sahasrabuddhe non-existent abilities and powers in tanAnA/layakari." Actually,
> I never said ONE WORD of this. He who needs to mis-quote his debating opposite
> in order to make points has already lost the debate. You seem very comfortable
> mis-representing the veiws of others. I actually praised her knowledge of
> tarana bandishes, which you could benefit from.
Recall that you had written that she specializes in tarAnA. What did that
mean by that? If there was some subtle distinction you were trying to make
it wasn't clear. You must learn to write clearly and unambiguosly. No, I didn't
mean to put words in your mouth, I have no use for such tricks, so cut
this cockamamie bullshitting.
> Did anyone else notice that the bandish which Rajan cites in Gaud Sarang breaks
> the rag in the second line of the antara? I studied this rag with Ali Akbar,
> Ramnarain and Rajeevev Taranath and none would take the phrase S"(N)R"S"D N(D)P
> - S"D N(D)P isn't good Gaud Sarang. So I thought "maybe its a gharana
> variant" and went to listen to DV Paluskar's "Piyu Pelena Lagi" which has been
> one of my favorite pieces since Ali Akbar taught this bandish in our flute
> class in 1972. Nope, he doesn't do it either.
I am aware of all this, of course, and have written about the variants
of Gaud Sarang in some detail in a few posts in the past.
S" D N (D)P is perfectly allowed in Gaud Sarang! And it is not even a
gharANA variant. In fact if you had listened carefully to Ali Akbar
and Paluskar you would have noticed a difference there as well. AAK
eschews some patterns that DVP employs and vice-verse. But alas you
were in great hurry to prove me "wrong" tch tch. And if you then
move on to Mallikarjun Mansur you would see a different interpretation
there as well. And likewise with the Agra dudes. They interpret and exceute
Gaud Sarang differently. This variations across gharanic and regional
boundaries is characteristic to Hindustanu music and makes the whole
business of rAgadhAri interesting and pleasurable. Back to the drawing
board, Shri Whittier. And this time cite more some more big-name Ustads
that you studied from. Proof-by-authority is still taken seriously by some.
For those of you who might have a genuine interest in pursuing this
bandish here is an additional note (I must thank Shri Whittier for
the opportunity to amplify on this although his intentions in carping on
the point are less than honourable). The above phrase S D N (D)P needs
to be broken down into two sub-units - S" (S")D and N (D)P - in intonation
with a slight pause between the two. Viewed this way the Gaud Sarang
swarUp shines through even better. There are many such details that
one has to leave out in the interest of not cluttering the screen. I
hope the readers can supply these missing steps. I welcome any clarification
from whosoever is interested in knowing further details about these
bandishes.
> What did you do, get this out
> of some book? Maybe its a typo you are enshrining for all posterity. Or maybe
> you got snookered by good ole Panditji who deliberately let out an inferior
> version of his bandish while keeping the good one for his favored disciples -
> those ole Panditji's love to do that one.
Gee, for someone who seems to have an aversion for cheap shots this
sure seems like a change in heart.
> In any case, Veena's method of research, which was to go out and actually learn
> tarana bandishes from those who composed them, and pass the test of actually
> performing them back to the composer right in front of him, is far superior to
> your own method of taking stuff from books. Your ridicule of her PHD is
> absurd.
This has NOTHING to do with Ms Sahasrabuddhe's skills - the lack of them -
in tarAnA-gAyaki. Please confine yourself to the main issue(s), if you
can. And no cheap shots, please, Shri Whittier. Remember how much you
dislike them?
Okay, my ridicule of her PhD is absurd. Now, do you have any other
point besides this one?
Warm regards,
r
ps: Pavan, I did not mean that as a cheap shot. I know you are very
fond of Ms Sahasrabuddhe's music and merely wanted to assure you
that I have no axe to grind vis-a-vis her. Shri Whittier is of course
Rajan P. Parrikar
eschews some patterns that DVP employs and vice-versa. But alas you
were in a great hurry to prove me "wrong" tch tch. And if you then
move on to Mallikarjun Mansur you would see a different interpretation
there as well. And likewise with the Agra dudes. They interpret and execute
Gaud Sarang differently. These variations across gharanic and regional
boundaries is characteristic to Hindustani music and makes the whole
business of rAgadhAri interesting and pleasurable. Back to the drawing
board, Shri Whittier. And this time cite some more big-name Ustads
Warm regards,
r
entitled to his hallucinations.
WARVIJ
>> Layakari has its place but is it the
>> only thing that distinguishes it
>> from a Khayal bandish ?
Toby:
>I speak perhaps from ignorance of the
>subject, but what other excuse is
>there for abandoning the words of
>the khayal and singing bols?
Coupla things here from the perspective of someone
who's actually involved in singin' the things...
Taranas can sometimes be useful in a concert situation
if you want to sing a raag but don't have a complete
bandish prepared. A tarana mukhda and supplementary
avartanas can be prepared quite rapidly and will serve
admirably as a way to enjoyably pass the time.
Some taranas are more conducive to involved layakari
than others; some are just mukhdas which serve as
"hooks" for varied types of improvisation.
Among the types of taranas I've learned are:
"simple" taranas (one or two lines, used as a hook
for improv., no layakari to speak of built into the
composition, but really useful for extended
development);
"complex" taranas (multiple lines of varying length,
diverse beat groupings inside the taal, somewhat
more conducive to intricate layakari -- but generally
less useful as all-purpose hooks for extempore
singing);
"Dazzling" taranas (from the very first phrase the
entire structure is wondrously complex, often
including sargams, diverse syllabic sequences,
and/or tabla/pakhawaj bols... in the asthai! These
pieces are essentially "desserts," which is to say
that they don't support much improvisation at all.);
"Sufidaar" taranas in which Urdu couplets (typically in
praise of Mecca/Medina or Moinuddin Chishti/
Nizamuddin Auliya) are inserted. These can be
any of the three types cited above, and also allow
for occasional improvisation in expressive quawwali/
ghazal-ang bol banao;
"Tirvat" or "trivat" consists entirely of drum syllables.
Unless the singer has a huge repertoire of drum
compositions, improvisation in these is a formidable
challenge, so they tend to be sung without much
variation.
Antaras of all but the last type may include sargams
and drum syllables as well; these parts of the
composition are relatively rarely presented and
are thus greatly anticipated by the rasikas in the
audience.
There are also the so-called "chaturang" compositions
in which song text, tarana syllables, sargams and
drum bols are combined in both asthai and antara;
Krishnarao Shankar Pandit had a good repertoire of
these as does Balwantrai Bhatt. I don't have any
in my repertoire so can't speak from experience;
the only person I've heard sing them with authority
is KRSP, and he really has what I'd call a "rock'n'roll"
sensibility about them: take no prisoners, leave behind
only scorched earth!
Layakari is often found in khyal bandishes, typically
drut khyals of the "jhanana jhanana payal mori baaje"
variety. Dhrupad-ang layakari is heard in some
khyal bandishes; the degree to which the bandish
supports this type of behavior is determined in my
experience by the syllable-to-beat ratio. The more
it approaches 1:1, the easier it is to do dhrupad-style
layakari while singing. Songs with built-in bol-alaps
and/or bol-taans do not support this type of improvisation.
Have I added to your confusion, or alleviated it?
Warren
Original music blending Indian and Western traditions;
Hindustani vocal music -- Khyal & Thumri --
"Beauty in music is too often confused with something
that lets the ears lie back in an easy chair."
-- Charles Ives --
For info (617) 643-0206
Warren Senders
PO Box 38-1634, Harvard Square
Cambridge, MA 02238-1634
Bansijeff
Rajan writes->
>Now that you have shown that you are no slouch either re. cheap
>shots
Just trying to respond in kind, my dear friend (honestl, no irony intended).
It takes two to tango.
You also say,
>Recall that you had written that she specializes in tarAnA. What did that
>mean by that? If there was some subtle distinction you were trying to make
>it wasn't clear. You must learn to write clearly and unambiguosly. No, I
>didn't
>mean to put words in your mouth, I have no use for such tricks, so cut
>this cockamamie bullshitting.
I have clearly, unambiguosly and carefully praised her knowledge of tarana
bandishes from the beginning of these postings. Your statement that I must
learn to write clearly and unambiguously is just a bunch of pedantic drone, a
tone with which you love to address us. You seen to think that accuracy,
evidence and specificity are a value to which you can hold others, while
reserving the right to cheap-shot for your professorial self. You are
perfectly entitled to your own opinions, and I may agree with them or not, I
only suggest that they should be subjected to the same tests that you suggest
for others - the real test being how well you perform it. I'll stick with my
assertion that she knows a lot more about tarana than you do.
As for Gaud Sarang, I'll also stick with my assertion that this is a mistake.
With every rag I play I must make a discernment as to who's got the real
scoop, and in this case I don't think you do. My interest in these things is
professional (as I believe your interest is also) not just academic as I must
make judgements about which phrases to use and which to avoid. Having taken a
number of lessons in this rag since 1972 from those who have mastered it I am
already aware of the issues of diffent versions of this rag, a fact for which
you give me no credit whatsoever in your pedantic banter. Your postings on
this rag must have been before I was on line, and if anyone saved a hard copy
of it I would be interested in giving it a read. But I would not consider your
take on this rag particularly authoratative based on your comments so far.
Best wishes and good riaz
Jeff Whittier
A.Pavan
In article <3511E6...@neosoft.com>,
Augustus T. White <augw...@neosoft.com> wrote:
>A.Pavan wrote:
>
>> Layakari has its place but is it the only thing that distinguishes it
>> from a Khayal bandish ?
>
>there for abandoning the words of the khayal and singing bols?
>
As if the words in the Khayala mattered anyway; the text is miniscule, often
the content is far from profound and most often the singers hardly even
pronounce the words clearly.
Rajan P. Parrikar
Namashkar.
Addendum to my notes re. Gaud Sarang:
>S" D N (D)P is perfectly allowed in Gaud Sarang!
Shri Whittier had raised an objection to this phrase. Fair enough,
even though he was motivated only by the desire to prove me "wrong."
It just occurred to me that an almost-identical usage is to be found
in the Gaud Sarang bandish on the "Legacy" album by Asha Bhonsle and
Mr. Khan of San Rafael.
The bandish is "bolo re papiha, la'O piyAki kHabariyA..."
Notice how the "ki" syllable of "piyAki' is treated. There
is a rapid flourish (mPDNS") the tail-end of which is S"DN(P)m.
All this is done (or was supposed to be done!) in one clean stroke
of the vocal brush.
M G P P mPDNS"S"DN(P)m
la.O pi.....yA ki............
^^^^^^^^<----note that!
Whereas in his bandish Ratnakantbuwa employs the same
kernel with a very slight variation. He comes to rest on
the pancham instead of the tivra madhyam. I have already
indicated how the phrase is to be split, there is also
a curvature to be imparted to it that should be obvious
once you attempt to vocalise.
Once again, my thanks go to Shri Whittier for strengthening
my point. I hope he will do his homework better next tiume.
Side comments:
Bandishes are not static entities; they evolve - and they
must, of necessity - as they are passed down from student to
teacher. A small tweak here and there, sometimes even an
adjustment of partition of melodic pattern - all these are
necessary activities for a vibrant interpretation of it. In
the Hindustani tradition, it is not uncommon to find the
same bandish text with the same skeletal melodic kernel
having multiple identities in execution. Those who maintain
that bandishes must be frozen for all eternity in swara and
tAla have not understood the first thing about the tradition!
The spirit of playing around with bandishes, of turning them
upside down, viewing them from varied angles, bringing to bear
one's own ideas for enhancement - these are all to be found
in India's musical tradition.
Warm regards,
r
Augustus T. White
A.Pavan wrote:
> As if the words in the Khayala mattered anyway; the text is miniscule, often
> the content is far from profound and most often the singers hardly even
> pronounce the words clearly.
Probably true, but this is common to many styles of singing. People
still place great stock in the lyrics, however limited and repetitive.
By contrast, styles of singing with no words at all are both fewer and
much less commonly heard.
--Toby White
Rajan P. Parrikar
Shri Jeff Whittier (bans...@aol.com) writes:
> Rajan writes->
> >Now that you have shown that you are no slouch either re. cheap
> >shots
>
> Just trying to respond in kind, my dear friend (honestl, no irony intended).
> It takes two to tango.
Namashkar, Shri Whittier.
Alas, you selected the wrong location for your target. That comment at Pavan
was not a cheap shot at all. So much for your comprehension skills.
> I have clearly, unambiguosly and carefully praised her knowledge of tarana
> bandishes from the beginning of these postings.
This is getting tiresome, but here it is, one last time:
You wrote that she specializes in tarAnAs. The crux of my objection was
very simple: there is no evidence for Ms Sahasrabuddhe expertise in or
mastery of tarAnA/layakAri technique. I pointed to the Music Today Tarana
Series, a signal production available in the public domain, featuring
her tarAnAs and it is easy to verify my claim. You, on the other hand,
took this to mean all kinds of things - that I don't like her, that I reject
her performances and so on and so forth. I'm afraid your "careful" "clear"
and "unambiguous" praise of her knowledge of tarAnA bandishes is orthogonal
to the point about her skills at tarAnA renditions. Can you grasp the
difference?
Then you waved her doctorate, presumably to bolster your case. Sorry, that
doesn't count either, the only things you need to look at are her renditions
of the tarAnAs, not her tome. Once you do that you will be compelled to
admit (if you have the habit of forming opinions based on available evidence)
that she too falls to the same lot you described so well: "Modern vocalists
tend to blur the distinction between tarana and chota kheyal and simply do
chota kheyals with bols for a text."
<Rest of Shri Whittier's You-said-I-said-You-said-I-said piffle deleted>
> for others - the real test being how well you perform it. I'll stick with my
> assertion that she knows a lot more about tarana than you do.
I see, this is what it has come to now! Although your comparing me with
Ms Sahasrabuddhe is flattering, I must once again call your attention
to the fact that this was not the issue at all. You seem to stick at
everything else but the issue at hand.
> As for Gaud Sarang, I'll also stick with my assertion that this is a mistake.
Please do, since that is clearly the best you can do. The rest of the
readers please see my other post re. Gaud Sarang.
> make judgements about which phrases to use and which to avoid. Having taken a
> number of lessons in this rag since 1972 from those who have mastered it I am
> already aware of the issues of diffent versions of this rag, a fact for which
> you give me no credit whatsoever in your pedantic banter. Your postings on
You want me to credit you for the fact that you have "taken a number of
lessons in this rag since 1972 from those who have mastered it.....versions
of this rag..."? Why?
I have elaborated on your Gaud Sarang objection in another post. You were
so excited about proving me wrong that you tripped and forgot to review the
bandish from your own backyard. Your objection to the inadmissibility of a
certain phrase in G-Sarang has been dealt with, you made a booboo. I do
give you credit for inadvertantly helping me re-think Gaud Sarang today,
and also for the impetus (again, inadvertant) your postings provided in
bringing forth to mind tarAnAs that were in the distant recesses (3 of which
I have posted).
Look harder from now on and you might someday get lucky enough to crush
some nit somewhere in my posts.
> of it I would be interested in giving it a read. But I would not consider your
> take on this rag particularly authoratative based on your comments so far.
I myself urge people to not consider my take on any rAga to be authoritative,
to go out and experience for themselves the pleasures and pains of finding
things out. Your objection has turned out to be trivial, hence I am glad you
did not consider my take on this rag to be particularly authoritative.
By the way, there is no one "authoritative take" on any rAga, they have evolved
continuously and are still evolving. There are the traditionally accepted
viewpoints for well-established rAgas. The vakra rAgas (of which Gaud
Sarang is one) are much more open to divergence across regional/gharanic
and temporal borders. One may adopt a particular interpretation based on
one's maturity/gharANA affiliation/taste/etc.
Aside:
A rAga is not merely a collection of characteristic phrases, it is a composite
organism, the whole of which is greater than the sum of its parts. An approach
that takes to looking at a rAga merely as a patchwork of disjoint phrases is
certain to lead one astray. One will be missing the forest for the trees.
Breakdown into phrases is a useful activity serving pedagogical purposes or as
an adjunct for analysis. But in the main, thought and performance in a rAga
demands that one take a telescopic view, the big picture so to speak, and
to think of the proportions and the links and how they fit into the overall
melodic scheme. The utility of the guru in such matters is limited, it has to
result from one's own ceaseless reflection and meditation (manan-chintan, as
it is called in our paramparA) in the rAga.
Warm regards,
r
Sajjad Khaliq
Augustus T. White (augw...@neosoft.com) wrote:
: Very few of the recordings I have include taranas at all, much less good
: ones. What performers (other than Warren), gharanas and recordings
: should I be looking for if I wish to continue to impress impressionable
: youth with this particular technique?
Nazakat & Salamat Ali Khan used to do some mean taranas! Salamat Ali Khan
continues to do so in most of performances.
--
Sajjad Khaliq / Hamilton / Ontario / Canada
DGandikota
>parr...@rococo.colorado.edu (Rajan P. Parrikar)
> There
>is a rapid flourish (mPDNS") the tail-end of which is S"DN(P)m.
>All this is done (or was supposed to be done!) in one clean stroke
>of the vocal brush.
>
>M G P P mPDNS"S"DN(P)m
>la.O pi.....yA ki............
> ^^^^^^^^<----note that!
>
>Whereas in his bandish Ratnakantbuwa employs the same
>kernel with a very slight variation. He comes to rest on
>the pancham instead of the tivra madhyam. I have already
>indicated how the phrase is to be split, there is also
>a curvature to be imparted to it that should be obvious
>once you attempt to vocalise
I had to read 20 articles to find this really interesting
piece from Rajan that makes very good sense. Thanks!
--Dakshin
mu...@selforg.phy.bnl.gov
In article <199803182146...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
war...@aol.com (WARVIJ) wrote:
>
> Music Today has recently released a series of
> cassettes (CDs too?) containing only Taranas.
>
> Ulhas Kashalkar and Veena Sahasrabuddhe are
> both represented; both also present khyal-numa,
> which are vilambit-laya taranas.
>
> These are unfortunately devoid of any interesting
> layakari at all; they seem to be a way to do raag-
> vistar without having to worry about text
> enunciation.
[.......rest snipped]
I want to twist this thread in a different direction by asking a few
questions.
(i) I have a cassette recording of an interview with Ustad Amir Khan Saheb. He
says "..I have done some research on this subject (Tarana).." (I dont know if
he ever obtained a PhD for this!). He claims that Tarana's origins are Persian
and the syllables used do have some meaning. He goes on to give a couple of
examples - Ya la la (Ya Allah Ya Allah), Na Na Noom (Na Janoon Na Janoon) etc.
I do not know if these claims can be substantiated, but to me it seems that
the syllables used are the most common ones a person can use when he/she sings
without words (text). Also, Dhrupad Alap uses these same syllables, not to
mention alapana in Carnatic music. Anyone care to comment on this?
(ii) The structure of a Tarana - mostly, the ones I have heard have the
aforementioned syllables in the Stayi and a text as the Antara. But this
doesnt seem to be the rule, as Amir Khan Saheb himself sings (in the very same
interview) a Tarana in D.Kanada (Yaare Man..) where the Tarana syllables
follow the text (which is the Stayi). Comments?
(iii) The Carnatic counterpart of Tarana, Tillana is strongly identical to the
Tarana. Indeed, I cannot think of any other musical form in C.Music that
resembles an H.Musical form so strongly. I conjecture (based on some vague
memories I have of reading/hearing something) that the Tillana was borrowed
from Hindustani Music. While there are several cute Tillanas by modern day
composers (Vidwans Balamuralikrishna, Lalgudi Jayaraman etc), I cannot think
of any Tillana predating the creations of Swati Tirunal. Am I correct in
assuming he was responsible for adapting this musical form? This speculation
can also account very easily for the fact that Tillanas are part of the
Bharata Natyam repertoire (thro' the Swati-Tanjore quartet connection).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
muthu
Zieht den Bayern die Lederhosen aus!!
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Bansijeff
Dear Rajan,
Please help me on this as I'm new to the internet. I've been exploring AOL's
newsgroups icons like "Netiquette - Start Here" and have not been able to find
the site which names you High Pope of Postings and Arbiter of All Things
Pertaining to IMC. Please send me the web address so I may worship at your
murthi.
I am well aware that the favorite blood sport of some RIMC contributers is the
ripping to shreds of artists whose performances they don't like. When guys
with PHD's in science or technology like yourself are ridiculing the earned
music degrees of knowledgeable artists, the atmoshphere has become positively
carnal. "Throw them to the lions" - or, in this case, the lion, since no one
has come forth to support your assault on Veena S. Warren's mild comments were
made before your first posting, and maybe he's holding back because he knows
that he could be the next victim of the same predatory criticisms himself.
Since I started learning Hidhustani Sangeet in 1969, I have heard lots of
Pundits, many more knowledgeable than yourself, blow hot air out of various
orifices on the subject of what's correct playing, what's the correct rag,
what's the correct format, etc. It's necessary for an aspiring musician to
develop a useful cognative map to dicern and separate the many and often
contradictory statements of all these supposed authorities and make those
choices which shape the heart of the musician's repertoire and become the
basis of their own personal style. The issues you raised in the rag Gaud
Sarang, for instance, I first heard from Pt. Ramnarain and Ali Akbar in the
early 70's and I have had more than a quarter century to listen to the many
versions of this rag and then form my own opinions on this rag and its regional
variants so I have already mentioned to you than you're blowing hot air too,
because you got most of your ideas from books. One of the useful features of
this cognitive map of the terrain is a modest appreciation of where the
supposed authority is coming from - is the holder of some opinion a person who
has actually worked to perform the rag in question, or a person who has truly
mastered the rag, or a person with casual knowledge, or some guy who read about
it in a few books full of misprints (as they all are)? When the discernment
(you guys at Loral might call it a radar screen) comes back with the blinking
icon HE GOT IT FROM A BOOK then the the next thing to do is hit the ESCAPE
button (how do you like my techno-geek metaphors? - hey I"m really getting
this on-line stuff!).
Regarding Veena, you suggest that you should "cross-examine her which is the
surest way of gauging someone's knowledge" (your words). This establishes that
you not just content to be the High Pope of Postings but wish to be Robespierre
as wall. Don't forget that the Reign of Terror ended with Robespierre's head
coming off. You have not held back ridiclue of others, like your recent
comments in RIMC that Ajoy Chakravarty is no good because "He's a Bong
(Bengali) and bongs can't learn music" - a racist comment if I ever saw one so
I really don't mind down-and dirty characterizations of your position. You
demand that other people write in a very civilized manner while reserving for
yourself the primitive attacks.
I would note that your statement about cross-examining is a tacit admission
that you do not have the skills to discern a musician's knowledge simply by
listening to their performance, which is a true statement of fact about
yourself. With my "cognitive map" I have been testing your musical
appreciation on those evenings in the past few years when I have had the
pleasure to play for you (you being perhaps the only person in the entire
restaurant where I play on the weekends who actually listens) and have noticed
that you, for instance, respond quite knowledgeably to the slightest chhaya
(shadow) of a new rag in a ragmala, but recognize very little about vivadi (the
hidden notes in a rags, theoretically impermissable), or nuances of murki
(ornamentations done in diffenent ways by different gharanas) or silsela
(presentation of a series of ideas), and many other factors which lie behind a
musician' improvisations. Those of us who must sing for our suppers (or in my
case play) have certain ways of guaging audience reaction. One night recently
I played a Yaman for you which had parts of it that you enjoyed and you
mentioned to me that you had noticed I was treating the rag playfully in a
certain section in a pleasant way, a very intutive comment on your part. But
what was really happening, unrecognized by you, was that I was improvising a
silsela of taans based on a certain kind of descending taan favored by the
Gwalior which drops one note in each turn downward, starting from the beats
before each tal (in tintall, the 4, 8, 12, and 16, and ending each one with a
tehai which was related in some way to the previous ones. You could hear that
I was "playing around" - quite true, but you don't really grasp what's
happening. I love to do these silsela. Aother good series I often do is
gitkari (singing style) taans from any beat ending on some specific beat (beat
12 in tintal is one of my favorite places to pull up) and then do a series of
different tihais each using different rhythms from the 13th beat. Four or five
taans with tihais like this and then I'm on to the next series. I like to
punctuate my layakari with some rag vistars in the antara taken in the highly
ornamanted style of Punjabi Gharana as I think these kinds of rag vistars are
appropriate during that stage of development. When I play these kinds of ideas
before Rajeev Taranath, for instance, he immediately knows exactly what I'm
doing and where I got it from - and gives me positive feedback.
Now these are exactly the kinds of things Veena does much better than I do,
that's why I enjoy listening to her. I listen and I hear "she took those ideas
from Kirana", "she got that from Gwalior" "that's good ahmet (coming to sum)"
and she is really quite knowledgeable in taking ideas from disparate sources
and making a coherent whole out of them. My own test of your knowlege, which
comes from experience and not cross-eamination, which I detest, has shown me
that you have some knowledge and I praise you for it in areas like obscure rags
and bandishes. But my own personal taste is to say that , however a person
plays Yaman, that's how good he (or she) is.
I don't think I have want to say anything more this subject. I think now I'll
go have some "Fun" - Warren's criteria of good tarana - and put Veens's
Chandrakauns and Bhairavi taranas in my cassette
Jeff Whittier
Rajan P. Parrikar
Namashkar.
More on Gaud Sarang:
I would like to call the reader's attention first to Shri Bhatkhande's
definitive work "Kramik Pustak Malika." In Part 4, page 141, in the section
dealing with Gaud Sarang, the Pandit reports the avaroha as follows:
S" D N P, D m P G, M R, P, R S
^^^^^^^^
Note that the highlighted portion was objected to by Shri Whittier.
Let us also examine the very good treatise devoted exclusively to the
Sarang family entitled "Sarang Ke Prakaar" (1986) by Shri Jaisukhlal Shah.
It is an exposition on 23 different varieties of Sarang: vistArs, bandishes
et al gathered from several sources such as Bhatkhande and BR Deodhar, to
name just two.
On page 148 of Shah's work, the avaroha of Gaud Sarang is given as:
S" D, N P, D m, P G, M R, P, R, S
^^^^^^^^^
Again, the relevant portion of the avaroha is listed contrary to what
Shri Whittier thinks it should be.
That is not all. There are bandishes recorded in both the books employing
the S" D N P cluster. As an aside, some folks also use the komal nishAd in
Gaud Sarang in a cameo role (as in S" Dn P). Another point of note is that the
Aroha/Avaroha set often does not capture every characteristic of the rAga and
this is particularly true of vakra rAgas. Ironically, the location in
Ratnakantbuwa's bandish where the objection was raised is easily the most
beautiful point in the bandish. Anyone who has attempted to vocalise it will
have recognised the delicious curve embedded in the syllablic interval therein.
Digression:
Shri Jeff Whittier of course has had NOTHING to add to these issues
after his pathetic attempt to fool us into believing that he had something
useful to say on Gaud Sarang. An objection that could have furthered dialogue
and discussion would have been greatly welcomed. Or a query seeking
clarification. As I always have. But Shri Whittier, still in his newbie
nappies and with an attitude that reminds one of the caveman who just
discovered fire, inspired solely by his desire to prove me wrong, stubbed his
toe hard against the rock of ignorance. Had he made a valid observation, I would
have had no hesitation whatsoever emending my viewpoint(s) re. Gaud Sarang,
but his only goal was to prove me wrong by hook or crook which led him to
his tissue of rubbish faute de mieux, easily discredited and trashed. It is
likely that he will "stick" to his assertions and take more potshots at the
material from the books I have cited since they do not support his prejudices
and delusions. May he find his peace in his glued state! Changing one's mind
on the basis of new data is a painful process, certainly not given to those
whose affinity for nescience is matched only by their hubris. On the other hand,
he will wave doctoral theses which he has not himself read and make a big
charade of defending them since it provides him the opportunity to scamper
onto higher indignant ground and in his mind absolves him with substantiating
what he writes. So much for Whittier.
My goal in posting these bandishes is twofold. One is purely selfish, in
that the exercise provides an opportunity to refresh my mind with material
that was known to me as a young fella in India. The second is a little
altruistic - to encourage the interested to try out this very fruitful exercise
of deciphering and reconstructing melodies from raw swaras. That not every
nuance is obvious right away should be thought of as a challenge not an impediment.
Back to music:
There is yet another sub-topic that I would like to address, again inadvertantly
inaugurated by the last few posts. It has to do with compositional license and
latitude in rAga. For this purpose I adduce mukhDAs of two bandishes in Raga
Bihag. The first is composed by Ratnakant Ramnathkar and the second by Dinkar
Kaikini. Both are bound in teentAla.
Ratnakantbuwa: kA aisi preeta lagA'ie
Dinkar-ji: chalo haTo ja'o chhAnDo mori baiyyAN, chhaliyA
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
P - (P)G M G (R)S - S S (N')D'
kA . ai.........si pree........ta . la
N' - R S
gA.............'ie
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
P' N' S (S)M G (G)R S S SN' D'N'
cha..lo ha...To jA....'o chhAn.Do mo....ri
S - S SR S N'
bai.......yyAN chha.li...yA
In canonical Bihag the use of DN is a no-no, and in rAga development the purist
will frown upon such 'violation.' Nevertheless, it is instructive to
inquire why these two master composers have overstepped the rAga boundaries.
Consider for instance, Ratnakantbuwa's bandish. A strait-jacketed approach
would most likely have suggested " P' " on beat #16 so as to conform to the
rAga. But note how the word and its expression is immediately enhanced by
inserting D' instead. Ratnakantbuwa, being well-acquainted with drama (the great
Marathi musicals) deeply appreciated the bhAvic aspect and the intimate
relationship of swara and sAhitya. The penalty for injecting DN is relatively
minor compared to the gain in swara-sAhitya interaction, and the SPIRIT of
the rAga is not violated in any essential way. This one mukhDA can be
improvised variously by combinations of swaras, punctuation and layakAri. The
same can be said of Dinkar-ji's bandish. The list of bandishes where such
'violation' is observed can be expanded indefinitely. Notice anything odd in
Kumar Gandharva's classic composition in Raga Nand, for instance, in the second
line? - Rajan, ab to aajaa re, thiran rahat kajrA ANkhan meiN...
Gotta run!:-)
Warm regards,
r
Rajan P. Parrikar
I will respond to Shri Jeff Whittier's rest of the post if and
only after he clarifies the following part which caught my attention:
He writes:
> Regarding Veena, you suggest that you should "cross-examine her which is the
> surest way of gauging someone's knowledge" (your words). This establishes that
> you not just content to be the High Pope of Postings but wish to be Robespierre
> as wall. Don't forget that the Reign of Terror ended with Robespierre's head
> coming off.
Is this a veiled threat? Yes or no? I ask because I perceive it to have an
ominous undertone and feel very uneasy about it. And my experience calls for
vigilance. During the past few years, there have been letters written to my
erstwhile department in Colorado as well as to my employers, on another
occasion a hostile message was deposited on my telephone answering machine
and so on. My "crime"? Expressing my opinions on rmic. Shri Whittier's
characterisation of the ambience on rmic as a "Reign of Terror" is the height
of paranoia. He is clearly seeing demons where none exist. At any rate,
what does Shri Whittier mean by "...head coming off."? We would like to know.
If it is an innocuous metaphor then I have no issue with it and the matter
will be dropped right away. Threats or innuendo perceived to be hostile to
one's person is not to be pooh-poohed. I request Shri Whittier to clarify.
Regards,
r
DGandikota
>parr...@rococo.Colorado.EDU (Rajan P. Parrikar)
>there have been letters written to my
>erstwhile department in Colorado as well as to my employers, on >another
>occasion a hostile message was deposited on my telephone >answering machine
> My "crime"? Expressing my opinions on rmic.
RMIC has some very pathetic posters who either don't like
Indian culture or want to know about Indian culture of which music is very
essential, but worship some brands of Indian music.
They are like a cult -- with all the pathological weaknesses. The best thing
one can do is ignore them.
Most cults and their members don't carry out the threats to
do physical harm. They just think they are in control by making the threats.
Unfortunately, the non-RMICers don't know what is the
truth.
It makes very good sense to use private accounts when posting
strong opinions on RMIC. Even then some pathetic losers
don't give up. You can ignore or deal. But I'd doubt that
the pathetic losers will ever realize that they are making
threats.
--Dakshin
WARVIJ
Without stepping into the unseemly wrangling
currently in progress between messrs. Whittier
and Parrikar:
I think that when we note that Veena's tarana
performances are not characterized by layakari,
there is a terminological confusion which has
been at least partially at the root of the current
dispute.
Veena certainly employs rhythmic twists and turns
to a great extent throughout her singing; her rhythmic
acuity is exceptionally high, and this is as true
of her renderings in vilambit as it is for drut khyals
and taranas. She never misses a sam and has a
superb sense of rhythmic placement, phrasing,
articulation and subdivision.
What I do not hear is "tarana-style" improvisation;
that is, improvisation in which rhythmic phrases
are articulated with tarana syllables, and the
melodic contour is relatively less interesting than
the succession of cross-accents and rhythmic
impulses. This is heard to great advantage in
the singing of Nissar Hussain Khan, for example.
Veena tends to treat her taranas as chhota khyals,
elaborating them with a rich variety of taans and
"bol-alaps" (using "ta" "na" "ya" etc.), but does not
as a rule develop the taranas in the direction of
pure rhythmic impulse. At least, I've never heard
her sing a tarana like that (the vocal equivalent
of instrumental jhala, I suppose you'd say).
Does this clarify things a bit?
Warren
DGandikota
> war...@aol.com (WARVIJ)
> but does not
>as a rule develop the taranas in the direction of
>pure rhythmic impulse. At least, I've never heard
>her sing a tarana like that (the vocal equivalent
>of instrumental jhala, I suppose you'd say).
Why would any classical vocalist do this? Is the ability to
imitate other sounds or even voices, a musical talent?
A playback singer for Indian movies once remarked that
his success is due to his ability to mimic the voices of actors,
regardless of their regional tongue, and even instrumentalists.
He was a blessed one who could inspire himself to sing
any song for commercial success. But how many have this
talent naturally?
Recognizing that vocalists have their own musical vocabulary,
derived or contrived from other musicians, shouldn't the
syllables be decipherable into some emotive system? It is
one thing to say that one utters musical syllables to fill the
boundary between abstract instrumentalists and concrete
vocalized sounds, and it is a totally different thing to accentuate
the intrumental abstractions.
Anyway, I do like some of the tarana effects--but in the movies.
--Dakshin
Rajan P. Parrikar
Shri Warren Senders (war...@aol.com) writes:
> I think that when we note that Veena's tarana
> performances are not characterized by layakari,
> there is a terminological confusion which has
> been at least partially at the root of the current
> dispute.
>
> Veena certainly employs rhythmic twists and turns
> to a great extent throughout her singing; her rhythmic
> acuity is exceptionally high, and this is as true
> of her renderings in vilambit as it is for drut khyals
> and taranas. She never misses a sam and has a
> superb sense of rhythmic placement, phrasing,
> articulation and subdivision.
>
> What I do not hear is "tarana-style" improvisation;
> that is, improvisation in which rhythmic phrases
> are articulated with tarana syllables, and the
> melodic contour is relatively less interesting than
> the succession of cross-accents and rhythmic
> impulses. This is heard to great advantage in
> the singing of Nissar Hussain Khan, for example.
>
> Veena tends to treat her taranas as chhota khyals,
> elaborating them with a rich variety of taans and
> "bol-alaps" (using "ta" "na" "ya" etc.), but does not
> as a rule develop the taranas in the direction of
> pure rhythmic impulse. At least, I've never heard
> her sing a tarana like that (the vocal equivalent
> of instrumental jhala, I suppose you'd say).
Namashkar.
I agree substantially with this assessment. To it I will add that I also do
not see in her much of the pulsed vigorous nom-tom type of intonation peculiar
to tarAnA specialists. Nor does she exploit the rich variety of layakAric
possibilities available. Yes, Veena tends to treat her tarAnAs as chhoTA kHayAls,
a point I made right away in my very first rejoinder, suggesting that she fits
Shri Whittier's own description of "modern vocalists" very well in that respect.
When one thinks of tarAnA it is not Veena Sahasrabuddhe that comes to mind,
as someone who is a specialist in it to serve as a model.
For reasons that are unknown, Shri Whittier has interpreted my criticism of
an aspect of Ms Sahasrabuddhe's singing as an "assault" on her. This is arrant
nonsense and one wonders why he has this compulsion to look so ridiculous in
a public forum? It will look that way only to a mind that operates in the
binary mode: where it sees everything to be either black or white, the different
shades of gray which make the world very interesting being lost on it.
To the rmic citizenry, here are my brief views of Ms Veena Sahasrabuddhe
and her associates: she is a first-rate musician, a fine expositor of
kHayAl, pucca in tAla and laya, combines exceptional taiyyAri with top-class
repertoire.
I also had the great privilege and pleasure of accompanying her brother and
GURU, Shri Kashinath Bodas, on the harmonium in two small private concerts in
the summer of 1995, both of them in the Bay Area of San Francisco. In him
the highest level of artistry was paired with all the qualities of a susanskrit
sajjan. I got to interact and talk to him about music. His gentle demeanour
and ready willingness to indulge my questions on rAgadhAri made for a thrilling
experience. The discussions were immensely rewarding and are fresh in my
consciousness. Alas, two weeks after these concerts he went to Canada and died
of a heart attack. I wrote a brief tribute soon afterwards here on rmic. And I
was moved to write a letter to his wife (of whom he spoke very affectionately)
and mailed it to the address in Kanpur that I got off the card he had given me.
He was Veena's first guru and was full of admiration of her accomplishments.
They all come from the great tradition of that noblest of souls and Ram-bhakta,
Vishnu Digambar-ji, a tradition very dear to me and of which Veena is today
the torch-bearer. I mention all these irrelevant things, not for self-
aggrandisement, but to call Shri Whittier's bluff and his masquerade of being
the protector of Veena's honour. Patriotism, they say, is the last refuge of
the scoundrel. And so it is with the poseur and his indignant piety. Really, I
do not need to learn the values of respect or of finer points of my tradition
and its people from the the rag-tag and bobtail likes of Shri Whittier any
more than I need to learn the Bhagavad Geeta from the Hare Krishnas.
Warm regards,
r
Bansijeff
Warren,
Thanks for your imput regarding the different kinds of taranas. I heard Veena
Sahasrabuddhe give a similar classification of them, along with examples which
she performed.
According to Ali Akbar Khan, who I cite as a source, not as an authority in his
capacity as calipha of the Maihar gharana (so as not to earn the wrath Rajan
Parrikar who considers himself the would-be calipha of RIMC), tarana is older
than kheyal and was a competing form against dhrupad in the durbars or courts
of the feudal era. As competing musicians do, each tries to cop(y) the skills
of his opponent - just as Rajan is his ridicule of AAK, Allaudin Khan, Ajoy
Chakravarty, Kishan Maharaj, etc. has become himself one of those babbling
babus of bad behavior. AAK, who was a court musician in the state of Jodhpur,
once described those formal competitions as "you come to play Desh and the guy
just before you played Tilak-Kamod, and you have to wipe out the entire feeling
of the last rag with your first note".
Tarana, according to this interpretation, adopted a use of percussion bols
similar to that of the use of the text of a dhrupad - namely, the elabration
goes on with the use of bol-taans, using the bols in the development of
layakari, akaar (wordless, sung to ahh) taans and other features of modern
vocal music. Indeed, there are stories about the early kheyal singers
challenging dhrupad singers to replicate the kheyal akaar which the dhrupadiyas
were unable to do. Today, of course, we see kheyal gharanas in which these
same issues are still reflected, like Kirana's akaar taans, and Agra's bol
taans.
Some tarana bols seemed obscure to me until I spent a couple of years taking
mridangam lessons. Ta di mi doesn't exist in tabla - the bols starting with "m"
having been lost, but these "m" bols still exist in Carnatic music, another
indication of the antiquity of tarana, going back to the days before the schism
was so severe. Arjun Shejwal was renowned for his dhrupad bols (recitations of
pakawaj compositions), and I would be curious so see the relationship between
these pakawaj bols and tarana.
Now when I hear Veena sing a series of akaar taans seamlessly, beautifully and
with perfect ahmet (coming to sum) in some tarana, which maybe isn't the right
thing technically to do, I think not, "she's awful," I instead think "Man, I
wish I had ahmet like that" and go home and pratice. We all have to prioritize
what is and isn't important, and I who "sing for my supper" try to learn
constantly from the inspiring performances of good, not necessarily perfect,
artists. When I sat down to eat my earned supper last night at the restaurant
where I play on Friday and Satuday evenings, 3 kind young Indian gentlemen
named Amar, Ghautam, and Salman left me a note saying, "My friends and I
appreciate your talent and involvement in Indian music. It was a treat
listening to your music. Keep playing". I felt encouraged by that - maybe I
can cop a little more of Veena's ahmet.
Jeff Whittier
DGandikota
> bans...@aol.com (Bansijeff)
>Ta di mi doesn't exist in tabla - the bols starting with "m"
>having been lost, but these "m" bols still exist in Carnatic music
Reminds me of an Illayaraja song that starts like:
"Ta-ki-ta ta-di-mi...ta-ki-ta ta-di-mi...tan-da-na...." A tillana
by Balamurali has "dheem...dheem...dheem...dheem...
nanana...dheem..nanana..om...ta-da-ra dheem na...
talanku...takita tom." and so on. Both are in dance contexts
making excellent sense.
I guess musicians can pull many surprises on the audience
who gathered to listen to music, but ultimately not make much
of an impression by using their own abstract syllables.
--Dakshin
Rajan P. Parrikar
Shri Jeff Whittier (bans...@aol.com) wrote:
> When guys
> with PHD's in science or technology like yourself are ridiculing the earned
> music degrees of knowledgeable artists, the atmoshphere has become positively
> carnal.
Namashkar, Shri Whittier.
I have never flouted my PhD here, nor is it relevant to rmic in any way. My
degree and professional affiliations have nothing to do with music.
> Warren's mild comments were
> made before your first posting, and maybe he's holding back because he knows
> that he could be the next victim of the same predatory criticisms himself.
Now that Warren has expressed himself in fair detail your conjecture has
been shown to have no basis.
And what is this fantasy you have about Warren Senders being a potential
"victim"?
He and I have disagreed - sometimes strongly - on several issues in the
past. He has also not been coy in his criticism of me and my writing style.
But we have always been implicitly agreed on one principle: difference in
opinion, however wide, need not imply evil, malicious intent on the part of
one's interlocuter. Are these hard concepts for you to grasp? Be that as it
may, there is a BIG difference between Warren and you. I am acquanted with
his intellectual personna through his postings on rmic and via our occasional
email exchanges. He is intelligent, well-read on a wide variety of matters,
and well-informed about Indian vocal music and its cultural milieu. He thinks
clearly and writes in sparking prose. He knows what he knows and what he
doesn't (read that last sentence twice, thrice, Shri Whittier). I look forward
to having more pow-wows with him in future, he is such a good interlocuter,
never driven by malice or jealousy but by a true Faustian spirit. In one word:
he is everything you aren't.
> Since I started learning Hidhustani Sangeet in 1969, I have heard lots of
> Pundits, many more knowledgeable than yourself, blow hot air out of various
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> orifices on the subject of what's correct playing, what's the correct rag,
^^^^^^^^^^^
Ah, the mask comes off now! As you can see, the view doesn't get any better.
> Regarding Veena, you suggest that you should "cross-examine her which is the
> surest way of gauging someone's knowledge" (your words). This establishes that
> you not just content to be the High Pope of Postings but wish to be Robespierre
You have quoted only half the story. Here it is in full:
"...other. I have not had occasion to interact with or cross-examine her which
is the surest way of guaging someone's knowledge. Neither have I read anything
written by her which would allow an estimate of her mental wherewithal.
Perhaps a coup d'oeil over her doctoral thesis (hopefully containing pie
charts et. al and at least one Appendix) may help formulate a definitive
opinion..."
As can be seen, cross-examination is one option. The other is interaction.
The third is perusal of written material. ANY one of these three would
suffice as my basis. If it strikes you as novel, sorry, that's your problem.
> You have not held back ridiclue of others, like your recent
> comments in RIMC that Ajoy Chakravarty is no good because "He's a Bong
> (Bengali) and bongs can't learn music" - a racist comment if I ever saw one so
> I really don't mind down-and dirty characterizations of your position. You
> demand that other people write in a very civilized manner while reserving for
> yourself the primitive attacks.
I don't demand anything of anyone and I don't tell people how they should
write or conduct themselves. I only retain my prerogative to opine on what
they write.
About bongs: This is another pathetic attempt by you to curry favour
with anyone you think might lend you a stanchion for support. I love
bongs dearly, just as I love the tamils, the gujjus and the rest of Indians.
This is a given, a statement of the obvious. It is impossible to have
anything but admiration for a people who have given the world Sri Chaitanya,
Rabindranath and Kishore Kumar and before Shri Whittier collapses in shame
I must add that I am the President of a club devoted to one of the three
bongs. I do not see the necessity for repeating these bon mots everytime
I make a wisecrack about bongs, goans or the ghats. One must retain a healthy
ability to laugh at oneself. Different Indian sub-cultures have their own
idiosyncrasies which have given rise to regional and topical badinage
among us Indians. I know your knowledge of India's historical and cultural
and social aspects is very poor. Please educate yourself.
And will someone please care to inform Shri Whittier that bongs do not
constitute a race? If one applies his yardstick of what is "racist" we are
led to conclude that much of the United States is racist. I mean, popular
television here - Seinfeld, Letterman et al - routinely takes potshots at
ethnic minorities and their cultures. For my part, I just laugh them off
and think no more of it, but if any of you rmic folks cannot, you know
that you can now call them "racist" thanks to Shri Whittier. Why, even in
America we have this kind of potshotting between various group - Noo Yokkas,
for instance, can be heard making pretty interesting comments about those
country bumpkins from Iowa. It has never struck me a "racist" though, and in
this my suspicion is that I am not alone.
I have deleted the rest of Shri Whittier's post which is calculated to
show what a smart fellow he is and how he has managed to slip some musical
ideas past me. A man is always entitled to his fantasies.
About his music, I shall not comment. The broad policy I have adopted for
my posts to rmic is to opine only on those musicians who are in the public
eye or those who, in my estimation, display a sufficient level of musical
ability/expertise worthy of comment. Based on these criteria I do not
see the need to comment about Shri Whittier's music. Neither will I engage
in put-downs of it. From what I know (given my limited interaction with
him) he practices hard and is a dedicated student of the music. He is also
a master flute-maker. In fact, some of you will recall that I had posted a
notice on his behalf (with his consent, the draft was mine) that he was
offering lessons in flute. I must submit to conveying a far more flattering
estimation of him in that note than what I hold true. It was a case where the
ends justified the means. That is, if I can with my finite means and
capacities be of ANY use at all to aspiring and struggling musicians, in
helping them support themselves and their music, I never hesitate to go
out and offer my services and do what it takes. It is an ethic that our
parents instilled in us.
I have no idea why Shri Whittier has gotten so personal. He seems a very
embittered man if the litany of complaints that he has lined up against me
is any indication and his dredging up my past comments about this one and
that one. I wonder if he has been simmering all this while awaiting the
first opportunity to have a go at me. For most of us rmic is an enjoyable
pastime, not our sole window to the world. We make a post, a riposte, a
rejoinder, occasionally there's a fulmination. But once it is over and done
with we move on to other topics and begin afresh. For my part, I do not,
in the main, retain any animus generated in a prior posting with my
interlocuters.
I wish Shri Whittier all the very best in his musical endeavours.
Warm regards,
r
Rajan P. Parrikar
Namashkar.
Let me round this up by providing a fuller context and put a closure
to this business with Shri Jeff Whittier. I do so reluctantly, and
in public only because he chose this forum to bring in the irrelevant
issues in the first place.
I had written:
>In fact, some of you will recall that I had posted a
>notice on his behalf (with his consent, the draft was mine) that he was
>offering lessons in flute. I must submit to conveying a far more flattering
>estimation of him in that note than what I hold true. It was a case where the
>ends justified the means. That is, if I can with my finite means and
>capacities be of ANY use at all to aspiring and struggling musicians, in
>helping them support themselves and their music, I never hesitate to go
>out and offer my services and do what it takes. It is an ethic that our
>parents instilled in us.
I found myself at the restaurant for dinner the weekend evening in question
some few weeks ago where Shri Whittier was playing. He joined me at my table
after his stint and mentioned that that his old students hadn't returned
after the winter season, that as a result it was hurting. I at once suggested
and volunteered to post a notice on rmic (he wasn't wired into Usenet at the
time), to which he agreed. After dinner I went to my office and posted the
notice but not before I had plonked a $20 bill (which is all that I carried
on me) in my mother's name into the "Tips for Musicians" basket. By the grace
of God the post clicked and at least one person called him with an intent to
take lessons. Whatever Shri Whittier may think, I would not do it any other
way if I had the chance to do it all over again. I am glad I could provide
this very, very minimal of assistance.
It is therefore puzzling to understand Shri Whittier's harangues against
me and his suggestion that I am responsible for a "Reign of Terror." It would
have been waved off with a laugh had it not come with the subsequent disquieting
metaphor of the head coming off. In this event, perception is more important
than intent and I definitely perceived a very hostile undertone suggesting
physical harm. Readers please note that he has not been forthcoming with an
assurance that it was an innocuous reference.
I do not know the motivation for his palpable grudge against me. It must
have been latent and deep-seated. It can't surely be a matter of conviction
for some great cause he is championing. His clutching at straws to get at me
has been painfully obvious. Rmic readers are no fools.
First it was the cavil about Gaud Sarang, which was shown to be spurious.
Second was his taking up cudgels on behalf of Veena Sahasrabuddhe, allegations
of my "assault" on her and making a capital out of my sarcastic remarks of a
thesis he has not read - and in all probability, will never read - but which
allows him a higher moral perch from which to exercise his pretense. That too
was shown to be a sham; my appreciation of Veena and her lineage goes right
back to my DNA. Then his reference to my comments about bengalis - again, a
hopelessly lost case for him. Still more, his taking up the cause for Ali
Akbar Khan and Allauddin Khan. Will not work - may someone direct him
to my Great Masters series and my prefaces in the pieces about these
great musicians? And the posts I have made detailing the exceptional
musicianship of Ali Akbar are legion. All these tirades are completely
irrelevant to the original discussion and doomed to extinction on arrival.
Having been on this newsgroup since its inception - over 6 years now - I
have earned several medals of which I will mention four of my favourite
ones: racist, fascist, communalist, sexist. There have been many detractors,
sometimes it has gotten very nasty, both from my side and theirs'. I concede
I am not a model of good behaviour, a fact already known to this readership.
Shri Whittier imagines his charges to be original, but they have been around
for years. However, in all these years NEVER has anyone publicly displayed
the one-sided vehemence and malice that has been exhibited here in the past
3 days by him, a man with whom I have enjoyed cordial relations and who -
may I admit - has been a recipient of my hospitality.
I wish Shri Whittier success and happiness. I have not the time or the
inclination to indulge him anymore and so this will most likely be the last
word from me on this topic.
Warm regards,
r
chpr...@hotmail.com
In article <6ev59r$g...@lace.colorado.edu>,
parr...@rococo.Colorado.EDU (Rajan P. Parrikar) wrote:
>
> that she too falls to the same lot you described so well: "Modern vocalists
> tend to blur the distinction between tarana and chota kheyal and simply do
> chota kheyals with bols for a text."
is there a faq on the web that explains the terms tarAnA, khayal etc.?
regards
prasad
Bansijeff
Rajan has written that he wants to put closure to our disagreement. Great!
There are so many postings now in the Re:Tarana thread that I can't follow them
all, as they are not in chronological order on my AOL screen, so I will respond
to what I think is relevant and let the rest slide.
After misquoting me to say "You went overboard in ascribing to MS.
Sahasrabhuddhe non-existent abilities and powers in tarana/layakari" (I
actually praised her know ledge of tarana bandishes)Rajan wrote to me in his
Mar 20 12:47 posting that "You must learn to write clearly and unambiguously.
No, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, I have no use for such tricks so
cut this cockamanie bullshitting." You also wrote in some other posting that I
should write with logic and evidence, etc. (apparently discounting the
relevance of experience, which is where most of my imput comes from.) However,
in his more recent posting Rajan says "I don't demand anything of anyone and I
don't tell people how they should write or conduct themselves." But this is
exactly what you HAVE DONE. You are quite content to mis-quote and condescend
if it fits your point. It was precisely at the moment I read your
misrepresentation of my position that I lost interest in your point of view.
You are to me very hypocritical, demanding from others that which you yourself
do not practice. It is to precisely this double standard I have referred
repeatedly. You are quite fond of cockamanie bullshitting, as long as it is
your own.
Now lets get to the really important part, and thanks for bringing it up so I
can reassure you. You say ->It is therefore puzzling to understand Shri
Whittier's harangues against
>me and his suggestion that I am responsible for a "Reign of Terror." It would
>
>have been waved off with a laugh had it not come with the subsequent
>disquieting
>metaphor of the head coming off. In this event, perception is more important
>than intent and I definitely perceived a very hostile undertone suggesting
>physical harm. Readers please note that he has not been forthcoming with an
>assurance that it was an innocuous reference.
>
>I do not know the motivation for his palpable grudge against me. It must
>have been latent and deep-seated. It can't surely be a matter of conviction
for some great cause he is championing.
Robespierre was the off-with-their-heads cross-examiner of the Reign of Terror
during the French Revolution. People denounced one another right and left for
the slightest provocation, and off to the guillotine the accused was sent after
the examination of the Messeur R.
As I previously stated, I think the favorite blood sport of some RICM
contributers is the ripping to shreds of artists (or other contributors) who,
for whatever reason, they don't like. I compare this trend to an intellectual
Reign of Terror and compare Rajan to its Robespierre. I personally think this
carnivorous critical trend is part of what is destroying the audience for ICM -
everybody's a critic, even if they don't know very much. My former teacher GS
Sachdev once remarked that intermediate students were the worst exponents of
this kind of criticism ("a little bit of knowledge," etc.) That is my cause,
to challenge this kind of petty intellectualism - the kind that comes from
people whose knowledge comes from books and is not put to the test of
performance. Veena I see as exactly the kind of person whose knowledge passes
precisely that test, though maybe not with an A++, and no, I'm not going to
give her a grade.
During the Vietnam War I was an activist for the New England Committee for
Non-Violent Action and I spent one year in Federal Prison as punishment for the
refusal to become a violent person, so don't get paranoid, Rajan, about me
lifting your head literally. I am perfectly happy just to post my views. Your
head seems to be getting higher and higher with each of your own responses.
Rajan's asserts, "Still more, his taking up the cause for Ali Akbar Khan and
Allaudin Khan will not work" and shows that he has completely missed my point.
I am saying that Rajan has in the past blasted any moving guru target with
ridicule for their babbling babu bad behaviour but that he himself has now
become such a babu - the would-be calipha of RIMC, showing off the same
pedantic, pontificating, condescending behaviour he detests in other people. I
see your postings as very revealing as to your true character, including your
paranoia. We say in my mother tongue, "You can dish it out, but you can't take
it."
On the other hand, all the things he mentions about his past kindnesses toward
me are untrue only because the number of these kindness is much greater than
the few he ennumerates. People casually following this dispute would have no
idea of my true feelings for Rajan of whom I am actually very fond and who has
truly been very supportive towards me in the past. It has been difficult for
me to write some sentances, knowing how he would receive them, but I feel this
undercurrent of carnivorous criticism should be challenged. There is no doubt
that he has been the greatest patron of my restaurant performances, but at what
point does patron become patronizing? I have tried to stand up against what I
see as cheap-shot attacks against knowledgeable artists, even if is comes from
my (lamentably former) friend.
And Rajan, thanks for finally admitting your ridicule of her PHD is absurd.
Lastly, I wish Rajan nothing but the best. Take care, dear friend, and don't
forget to practice your harmonium. Whenever I pick up a book to read, or punch
in my AOL password I always have this nagging feeling that I would be better
off spending my time playing music. Try it yourself - take refuge in a good
bandish (no irony intended). Music's great service is helping us forget our
troubles. May it do so for you.
Jeff Whittier
DGandikota
>chpr...@hotmail.com
>
>is there a faq on the web that explains the terms tarAnA, khayal etc.?
>
>regards
>prasad
You can buy a CD of the any number of musicians mentioned in the earlier thread
and listen for yourself. To the best of knowledge (a standard disclaimer on
RMIC ;-) it is a type of singing (please don't teach it to young kids; they
may never pick up any language skills :-) where a vocalist strings syllables in
tune with an instrument capable of emanating rhythmic sounds (e.g. tabla,
mridangam) or varying drone (e.g. sruti, violin) that cannot be classified as a
natural language or the basic swaras (sa-ri-ga...), but otherwise make musical
sense. I think explaining Tarana is a Tarana in itself. ;-0 In other words, if
you can recursively and progressively create complex phrases out of any basic
set in conjunction with a frequency source, then you end up with a long musical
passage that has all the properties of song devoid of meaning. You can perhaps
call "Hakuna Mitata" a good starting point of a Tarana. Of course, different
schools of thought exist
to define what are the various types of tarana. Anyone can improvise a new one
for as long their listening audience don't lose
interest and call it a bluff. :-)
--Dakshin
DGandikota
>bans...@aol.com (Bansijeff)
>As I previously stated, I think the favorite blood sport of some RICM
>contributers is the ripping to shreds of artists (or other contributors) who,
>for whatever reason, they don't like. I compare this trend to an
>intellectual
>Reign of Terror and compare Rajan to its Robespierre. I personally think
>this
>carnivorous critical trend is part of what is destroying the audience for ICM
>-
>everybody's a critic, even if they don't know very much.
Also, some critics show blind eye to the ICM performers'
shortcomings. It is an art to write a balanced critique (one
can't hide behind good vocabulary). It is even harder
to renounce one's prejudices even for the sake of writing
a critique. However, having a critique is better than not
having anything but blind praise approaching cult proportions.
It is also good for the heart to not take all criticisms seriously.
--Dakshin
Rajan P. Parrikar
Namashkar.
I received a request to post more tarAnA bandishes from an oldtime nettor who
posts very rarely nowadays and who prefers to remain anonymous. He is very
knowledgeable about Indian music, as I found out after my very thorough
cross-examination of him some years ago. As of yesterday, I regret to report,
all my diabolic attempts to steer him towards the guillotine planted in the
rmic orchard have failed to bear fruit. Speaking of which, I am reminded of the
etymology of the G-word and the associated lore. It takes after Dr. Joseph Ignacio
Guillotin, an 18th C French politico and physician. While the word guillotine
evokes unpleasant images, Dr. Guillotin himself was a very kind and humane
dude who was responsible for the mechanical contraption to be adopted for purposes
of execution in France. In this he was motivated by a desire to ease the final
moments of the doomed: in the France of his time, commoners were put to death
by hanging and the aristocracy by the axe (this was a messy job, and the executioner
was sometimes paid extra money to ensure a swift denouement). Dr. Guillotin found
both these procedures inhuman since they needlessly prolonged suffering and had,
what has since been called, the guillotine installed. Contrary to popular belief,
he did not invent the device. See, for instance, the very interesting recent book
"The Kindly Dr. Guillotin" by Prof. Harold Morowitz, a physicist who specialises
in short, delicious scientific essays. There's an interesting one in there about
doing laundry and its connection to entropy. Rmic folks of course know about
entropy and its connection to Ajoy Chakraborty thanks to moi.
The following tarAna is again a composition of Ratnakant Ramnathkar. It
is fairly straightforward and v melodious. I urge novices and the experienced
alike to supply the embellishment (pontification. oooops), that way you
will perhaps learn more about these things (condescension. oooops).
Comments welcome, the sillier the better.
Au revoir, mon amis, toute les mondes avec l'executionaire de la paparazzi
sur la table d'Mosieur Pierre et la guillotin, qui c'est the reign de terrorist
pour rmic a la mode. S'il vous plait. Merci beaucoup.
r
Raga: Khamaj
Tala: TeentAla (drut)
Composer: Ratnakantbuwa Ramnathkar
dir dir dir tana nA dir dir dAni tadAni
dAni dAni tadAni tadAni dAni tadim
nAdir dir tanananana tadiyan tAre
tAre tadAre dAni tananana
dAni dAni tadAni tadAni dAni tadim
Key:
(1) All shuddha notes in caps.
(2) The " and ' following a note denotes its tAr-saptak and mandra-
saptak affiliation, respectively.
(3) The grace note is enclosed in parenthesis of the type () and it
operates on the note immediately following it.
Asthaie:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
n D n P D N S" R" n D (D)G - M
dir dir dir ta na nA dir dir dA . ni . ta
G - G - M G (R)S S S (S)M G M P D N S"
dA . ni . dA ni dA ni ta dA ni ta dA ni dA ni
R" n -D
ta di....m
Antara:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
M (M)n D N S" S" N S"
nA dir dir ta na na na na
S" N S" R" n - D - G" - R" S" n D P M
ta di ya na tA . re . tA . re ta dA re dA ni
G R N' S M G (R)S S S (S)M G M P D N S"
ta na na na dA ni dA ni ta dA ni ta dA ni dA ni
R" n -D
ta dim...m
iy...@che.udel.edu
I agree, another one of those blood thirsty people is Dakshin Gandikota.
Atleast Rajan is knowledgeable, but Dakshin is an empty jobless vessel who
makes a lot of avoidable junk that is being posted on RMIC.
Sada
On 24 Mar 1998, DGandikota wrote:
> Date: 24 Mar 1998 00:29:35 GMT
> From: DGandikota <dgand...@aol.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
> Subject: Re: Tarana
>
> >bans...@aol.com (Bansijeff)
nataraj
By the way, there is a first-class CD by Pandit Vidyadhar Vyas, son of
one of the famous tarana singer of yesteryear, Pandit Narayan Rao Vyas,
in which he renders Malgunji: Vilambit for 46 minutes, Dhrut for 12
minutes, and a tarana for 8 minutes. I would highly recommend it to
anyone looking for a tarana recital on record.
It is an India Archives Music release (CD 1017). If you cannot find the
CD locally, i can give you the e-mail for India Archive Music catalogue.
raj
Subhash Phatak wrote:
>
> Augustus T. White wrote:
>
> What performers (other than Warren), gharanas and recordings
> should I be looking for if I wish to continue to impress impressionable
> youth with this particular technique?
>
> --Toby White
>
> This is a really good question. I have a private recording of Smt.
> Prabha Atre, in raaga Jogkauns, which has a very good quality TaraaNaa.
> I have heard Malini Rajurkar presenting taraaNaa admirably. I will have
> to go over my small collection to see if I do have any outstanding
> taraaNaa recordings.
>
> In good old days, Pt. Vinayakrao Patwardhan was the master of this
> singing style. I believe Pt. Mallikarjun Mansoor has good renderings of
> taraaNaa. Prabhaakar Karekar also sings forceful taraaNaa. It will be
> good idea to get more information on this topic. Thanks for bringing it
> up.
>
> Subhash
WARVIJ
Raj mentions:
>a first-class CD by Pandit Vidyadhar Vyas, son of
>one of the famous tarana singer of yesteryear,
>Pandit Narayan Rao Vyas, in which he renders Malgunji:
The vilambit bandish here is particularly attractive;
it's the canonical Malgunji "Ban men charavata gaiyan."
However, that said, I find that while Vidyadhar Vyas'
voice is very pleasing, I prefer the recording of his
father singing this composition. Somehow the
recordings of VV that I have don't seem to grip me
emotionally with the same fervour.
I have another recording of Krishnarao Shankar Pandit
singing Malgunji, but it's a different bandish which
I don't recall at the moment. It's KRSP's usual search-
and-destroy procedure, though -- great if you're
prepared to keep up with him, but certainly not for
those who want their khyal soothing!
Narayanrao Vyas and Vinayakrao Patwardhan are both
highly regarded for rendering of tarana by some. I
personally find Patwardhan in particular to be somewhat
garbled in his pronunciation of tarana bols; the
effect of pure bols is distorted in his ultra-high
speed renditions. This is not the case with Nissar
Hussain Khan, whose pronunciation is very pure.
I have a very pleasing recording of a tarana in Shahana
by Hafiz Ahmed Khan; he is obviously singing in NHK's
tradition, as, of course, is the young Rashid Khan
(who desperately needs a vacation judging from the
quality of his recent performances). Interestingly
enough, however, Ghulam Mustafa Khan, another
representative of the Rampur-Seheswan tributary,
seems to have moved quite far away from this style
of singing; I rarely hear him render tarana -- most of
the time he seems content to explore slow-tempo
merukhandi badhat, rather in the gayaki of Amir Khan.
An earlier poster mentioned a private recording of
Prabha Atre singing a tarana; this is quite
unusual. Kirana presentation of tarana is in general
more of the "chhota-khyal without words" variety;
typically the only place we find improvisation in
tarana bols in their presentations is in the opening
phrases of the antara (y'know, going up to tar sa
and holding it for a long time with lots of "deem ta
na na na na" stuff). Everywhere else it's taans and
alapi-type phrases. Bhimsen sings taranas occasionally
and adheres to this model; I've never heard him
sing anything with tabla or pakhawaj bols (though
Madhav Gudi once assured me he'd heard Bhimsenji
recite parans and kaidas for a whole night without
repeating himself -- I take this story with a grain
of salt).
Do I digress? Very well then, I digress. I am large,
I contain multitudes.
There is another point I have to make about tarana,
but it's presently quite late and I will wave goodbye
for a day or so.
Cheers,
Warren Senders
DGandikota
><iy...@che.udel.edu>
>I agree, another one of those blood thirsty people is Dakshin Gandikota.
>Atleast Rajan is knowledgeable, but Dakshin is an empty jobless vessel who
>makes a lot of avoidable junk that is being posted on RMIC.
>Sada
So the classic stalker and schizophrenic makes an appearance.
What is it that you are replying to here? Oh, let me guess, you couldn't sleep
through the night with your paranoia and fear of
your past. I hope you can
trace your roots to the Iyers of India (follow the discussion
in SCI and also go to the web site where another Iyer had
set up a Brahminical web site) and repent for their
sins. Perhaps you are already a murderer by some accounts of your past. I
certainly wish your chemical engineering department
had chosen "merit" candidates from India who don't
cheat in their exams and fake their GRE scores. Now
I call that a fine repartee which an Iyer like you deserves :-)
--Dakshin
Augustus T. White
WARVIJ wrote:
> quality of his recent performances). Interestingly
> enough, however, Ghulam Mustafa Khan, another
> representative of the Rampur-Seheswan tributary,
> seems to have moved quite far away from this style
> of singing; I rarely hear him render tarana -- most of
> the time he seems content to explore slow-tempo
> merukhandi badhat, rather in the gayaki of Amir Khan.
This is the first time I've heard Ghulam Mustafa Khan mentioned on RMIC.
Knowing nothing about his background, I'd taken him for a possible
student of BGAK. Why does he insist on recording a lot of low register
stuff which is well below his effective range? I'd about given up on
his Nimbus disc, but for the gorgeous short Piloo (or whatever -- I'm at
work) at the end that's worth the price of the CD by itself.
--Toby White
Daniel Fuchs
Rajan P. Parrikar wrote:
>
>
> Au revoir, mon amis, toute les mondes avec l'executionaire de la paparazzi
> sur la table d'Mosieur Pierre et la guillotin, qui c'est the reign de terrorist
> pour rmic a la mode. S'il vous plait. Merci beaucoup.
>
> r
Quoi??
D.
Surajit A. Bose
WARVIJ wrote:
> An earlier poster mentioned a private recording of
> Prabha Atre singing a tarana; this is quite
> unusual. Kirana presentation of tarana is in general
> more of the "chhota-khyal without words" variety;
> typically the only place we find improvisation in
> tarana bols in their presentations is in the opening
> phrases of the antara (y'know, going up to tar sa
> and holding it for a long time with lots of "deem ta
> na na na na" stuff). Everywhere else it's taans and
> alapi-type phrases. Bhimsen sings taranas occasionally
> and adheres to this model; I've never heard him
> sing anything with tabla or pakhawaj bols (though
> Madhav Gudi once assured me he'd heard Bhimsenji
> recite parans and kaidas for a whole night without
> repeating himself -- I take this story with a grain
> of salt).
I am afraid I missed the earlier post Shri Senders alludes to, so I was
wondering what raaga Prabha Atre rendered the tarana in. I have heard her sing
one in Bhairavi, ages ago. Generally Ms Atre doesn't sing canonical
bandishes--I believe she composes her own. Unfortunately the bandishes are
typically rather mediocre stuff, and this one was no exception. But since it's
quite rare to hear Kirana singers present taranas, the curiosity value makes
it worth hearing, at least once.
Bhimsen's tarana in Marwa is delightful--not as a tarana per se, i.e. in terms
of using tarana syllables to demonstrate layakari, but as an enthralling
rendition of the raaga.
Re: the relationship of khayal, tarana, and dhrupad: I've heard Bhimsen sing
the Hindol dhamar "laal jii na karo rii mose barajorii" as a (gasp!) chhoTaa
Khayal. And then there's the Vibhas "he narahara naaraayaNa gopaal giridhar,"
which I have learned as a Bhairav-ThaaT dhrupad, but Lalith Rao sings as a
Marva-ThaaT ba.Daa Khayal. Are there other examples of such morph-melts? I
should imagine that dhrupad-dhamar bandishes morph into Khayal bandishes every
so often, whenever the spirit moves a Khayal performer; but the reverse seems
pretty unlikely to happen.
> Do I digress? Very well then, I digress. I am large,
> I contain multitudes.
Tell me, Warren, do you quote Whitman because you look like him, or did you
cultivate the Whitmanesque beard because you like to quote Walt? Chicken and
egg question.
>
> There is another point I have to make about tarana,
> but it's presently quite late and I will wave goodbye
> for a day or so.
Oh please, don't hold us in suspense....
Another query: Is it common to have sargam in a tarana? I have learned a
Bhairav tarana that has quite a bit of sargam in the antara, but I've neither
heard nor learned any other tarana quite like it.
Another chatura.ng recording, besides the one mentioned by Warren: Veena S.
singing Adana: a chhoTaa Khayal, "horii horii horii khelata nandalaal,"
followed by a chaturang.
Are there any trivaTs floating about? I've heard them live, but haven't come
across any recordings.
-s
WARVIJ
Surajit asks:
>Tell me, Warren, do you quote Whitman
>because you look like him, or did you
>cultivate the Whitmanesque beard
>because you like to quote Walt? Chicken and
>egg question.
Do you seriously think I look like Whitman? (gasp!)
In any case the beard is now a "horrible memory,"
as Sherlock Holmes put it... (in a reference to the
temporary assumption of a goatee for purposes of
disguise). My wife registered a rather sharply
worded protest against the continued maintenance
of my facial topiary, and in the interests of
continued domestic felicity I trimmed the shrubbery
back down to a single, albeit majestic, moustache.
The Bhimsen Marwa tarana to which you allude is,
I believe, his concluding item in that unusual piece
of melodic gene-splicing, Marwa-Shri. The tarana
itself is an old one; I'm pretty sure it's the same
one recorded by Abdul Karim Khan decades before.
>Are there any trivaTs floating about?
>I've heard them live, but haven't come
>across any recordings.
If all goes well I will have released a recent
Pune recording of my singing which includes a
brief (but ever-so-scintillating!) Bhairavi trivat.
Keep your fingers crossed. (irrelevant thought:
would the Indian version of sign language be
"oonglish"?).
>Is it common to have sargam in a tarana?
>I have learned a Bhairav tarana that has
>quite a bit of sargam in the antara, but I've neither
>heard nor learned any other tarana quite like it.
I've heard quite a number of such items. Certainly
the articulated sargam syllables fit well in the
tarana context, and their inclusion affords an opportunity
for yet another textural component in the
performance. While hardly common, sargam in
tarana is at least, so to say, amply precedented.
Finally, I had said:
>>There is another point I have to make about tarana,
>>but it's presently quite late and I will wave goodbye
>>for a day or so.
>Oh please, don't hold us in suspense....
Nothing very important. Just a thought prompted by
another poster's comment that the tarana syllables
were (I'm paraphrasing) "the only syllables that
could be used when singing without words."
This is obviously not the case as can be shown by
the wide variety of syllables used in wordless
vocalises across the world. However, it is an
interesting exercise to note that in the jazz
tradition, where off-beats, syncopations and
the "punctuative" use of rhythmic phrases is
common, wordless singing often uses a rather
standard repertoire of syllables -- all of which
are sharper in attack and crisper in articulation
than the syllables of tarana.
Gary Giddins made the point in a discussion of
Sinatra's sense of time that rhythmic placement
in that tradition was often determined by the END
of a particular word -- thus explaining Sinatra's
frequent substitution of "that" for "the": he is
articulating the conclusion of the word rather than
allowing it to trail off in a vowel. This is accurate,
I think, and the point applies to jazz vocals in
general, with the sole exception of blues-ish
melismata.
In Indian vocalise, by contrast, the all-important
element remains the VOWEL, and the sustain which
can be created by articulating the vowel smoothly
and resonantly. Thus tarana draws from
a very restricted set of syllables, which in
permutations and combinations continue to sustain
their vowels; the consonantal elements serve to
*articulate* the vowel sustain without
interrupting it.
Contrast this aesthetic with that represented by
a "scat" line like one of Eddie Jefferson's phrases:
Spa-doodlya-dipudida-bapudi-zaba-shoo-bee-GWAAA!
Even granting that Jefferson's "words" end with vowels,
it's hard to ignore the tremendous variety of
consonants and conjuncts in this phrase -- more than
can be found in most entire tarana compositions.
According to AOL, I am running out of space for this
post. More later, gang -- hasta la vista.
Warren
Veena S Nayak
I am glad that the dispute between Mr. Whittier and
Dr. Parrikar has been concluded. However, in my
perusal of the thread, I find that the Mr. Whittier has
made certain broad statements which have gone unchallenged
by readers. I find the silence surprising given that
Mr. Whittier's claims involve not only factual
errors but implications about the activities and readership
of RMIC. I address these below, not in order to revive the
feud, but becuase I believe these charges to be serious
enough to warrant a rebuttal.
On 23rd March, Mr. Whittier avers with respect to Dr. Parrikar:
> to challenge this kind of petty intellectualism - the kind that comes from
> people whose knowledge comes from books and is not put to the test of
> performance.
Perhaps due to his discomfort over devoting time to any activity
other than playing music, Mr. Whittier is not aware of the happenings
in the broader world of ICM: a couple of years ago, Dr. Parrikar
provided accompaniment to Ustad Ali Akbar Khan and Ms. Asha Bhonsle
in 'Legacy'. Also, in the past few years that I have been following
this newsgroup, there have been other instances where he has accompanied
professional musicians such as Kashinath Bodas and Lakshmi Shankar.
To be sure, I have not attended these concerts and have only the postings
on RMIC to go by, but I do not see any reason to doubt the veracity of
these posts, just as I do not doubt Mr. Whittier's posts about his
restaurant performances. So, we may safely dismiss the 'no test of
performance' allegation.
As for the "petty intellectualism" that he purports to be crusading
against, perhaps Mr. Whittier should begin at home: he exemplifies
that trait as is shown by his responses to the Gaud-Sarang issue:
he pointed out what he thought was a mistake in the bandish presented
by Dr. Parrikar; it is shown by the latter (with the aid of established
sources) that the phrasing which Mr. Whittier considered a no-no, is not
actually so. Now, a true intellectual would not be too perturbed about
being proved wrong; au contraire, he would take delight in learning
something new. What is Mr. Whittier's reaction? He blusters:
"The issues you raised in the rag Gaud Sarang, for instance,
I first heard from Pt. Ramnarain and Ali Akbar in the early
70's and I have had more than a quarter century to listen to
the many versions of this rag and then form my own opinions
on this rag and its regional variants so I have already
mentioned to you than you're blowing hot air too, because
you got most of your ideas from books".
May I suggest to Mr. Whittier that RMIC readers do not need
muddleheaded mullahs of mediocrity (I am really getting this
cheapo-alliteration stuff!) to champion the cause of intellectualism:
we are doing just fine here with the likes of Mr. Senders and
Dr. Parrikar. Their opinions and beliefs are backed by solid
reasoning, they are not coy about owning up to mistakes or to
not knowing some things, and when faced with intelligent and
well-presented disagreement or criticism, they *never* whimper:
"You don't like me".
I have severe problems with another leit motif that appears in
Mr. Whittier's postings under this thread: the Books vs. Experience
issue. He clearly believes that books as a source of knowledge are
inferior to experience. The following imaginary exchange will bring
out the absurdity of his premiss:
Whittier: The earth is flat.
Parrikar: It has been scientifically and conclusively proved that
the earth is round. Why, there are even pictures to show it.
Whittier: That's baloney because you got that out of a book!
My experience shows that the earth is flat: I have been walking
since 1969 and have yet to fall off the edge of the earth.
There is no doubt that we are all clever and wise creatures, but
we would do well to remember that there have been and always will be
minds that are greater, cleverer and wiser than our own. Books afford
us a glimpse into other worlds which we, even with a lifetime of
experience, may not be able to savour, simply because personal
experience is never all-encompassing. There is really no reason to
believe one to be superior to another because both can be used to
nurture and maintain one's prejudices. What really matters is how
the knowledge, regardless of its source, is processed and incorporated
into one's life. As far as music is concerned, judging solely on the
basis of their writings on RMIC, Dr. Parrikar has done a far superior
job than has Mr. Whittier.
I must admit that there is one area where I give full marks to
Mr. Whittier's training and experience; in this respect, he also
passes the iron test of 'performance': the proclivity of Indian
classical musicians to attack the messenger when they do not like
the message. In the logician's jargon it is called 'ad hominiem'
method of argument: instead of examining the merits or demerits
of the criticisms levelled against their music, they prefer to
admonish the critic for impertinence. Indian classical musicians
have raised this technique to an art form; in fact, I will not be
too surprised to hear modern bandishes with lyrics such as "a little
knowledge is dangerous" or "what do you snots know of our tapasyA?"
Note however, that these musicians have no digestion problems when it
comes to listeners who constantly bow and scrape and heap unctuous flattery
on their divine heads. Well, as a listener seriously interested in
exploring the depths of ICM, I am glad to have access to alternative
viewpoints and if those bother you so much, Mr. Whittier, let me point
out another saying in your mother tongue: "if you cannot stand the heat,
get out of the kitchen".
Mr. Whittier also indulges in the knee-jerk protestations against
Dr. Parrikar's so-called "down-and-dirty characterisations".
In this he is not alone, many others before him have huffed and puffed
with self-righteous bluster. Personally, I fail to see what the
brouhaha is all about. As a member of one of his favourite target groups
for potshots, I find his comments on women sometimes highly amusing and
at other times silly and predictable, but never threatening to my femininity.
What matters is that he almost always provides food for thought on musical
issues; the provocative style is merely the "extra chillies" on top of the
curry: not everyone can handle it, but there are a few who do relish it.
And lastly, Mr. Whittier smugly reveals:
"During the Vietnam War I was an activist for the
New England Committee for Non-Violent Action and I
spent one year in Federal Prison as punishment for
the refusal to become a violent person..."
Mr. Whittier remindes me of the sanctimonious celibate
who sees smut everywhere: consider the phrases which he
uses in describing some of the activities on RMIC:
blood sport, ripping to shreds, throwing to the lions,
guillotine, reign of terror, head rolling off,
carnivorous criticism, carnal atmosphere.
Robespierre in Gandhi's clothing, Mr. Whittier?
Veena
at...@detroit.freenet.org
Without totally going off tangent and from
my very limited knowledge, the standard tarana
seems to incorporate dh/dim re ta na like syllables.
I once heard a Kumar Gandharva composition
which goes "yala yala le yalalamu le ya la"
The raag escapes me.
Would such a composition be considered a tarana
as well?
murali krishna
Mandar Mitra
Surajit A. Bose <sbo...@nd.edu> writes:
> wondering what raaga Prabha Atre rendered the tarana in. I have heard her sing
> one in Bhairavi, ages ago. Generally Ms Atre doesn't sing canonical
> bandishes--I believe she composes her own. Unfortunately the bandishes are
> typically rather mediocre stuff, and this one was no exception.
In a relatively recent release, she's sung a tarana in Yaman
(as you say, I found this unmemorable).
> Re: the relationship of khayal, tarana, and dhrupad: I've heard Bhimsen sing
> the Hindol dhamar "laal jii na karo rii mose barajorii" as a (gasp!) chhoTaa
> Khayal.
A bandish that goes "tum rab tum saheb" has been sung as a vilambit
khayal by BSJ in Brindabani Sarang and by the Gundecha brothers as
a dhrupad in Madhmad Sarang. I'm fairly sure the words are identical,
but don't know if either composition inspired by the other.
mandar.
DGandikota
> Veena S Nayak <vna...@acsu.buffalo.edu>
>May I suggest to Mr. Whittier that RMIC readers do not need
>muddleheaded mullahs of mediocrity (I am really getting this
>cheapo-alliteration stuff!) to champion the cause of intellectualism:
>we are doing just fine here with the likes of Mr. Senders and
>Dr. Parrikar. Their opinions and beliefs are backed by solid
>reasoning, they are not coy about owning up to mistakes or to
>not knowing some things, and when faced with intelligent and
>well-presented disagreement or criticism, they *never* whimper:
>"You don't like me".
>
>
I think Jeff Whittier provides another glimpse into the ICM that reasoning
alone cannot accomplish. Please note that not all music has to do with
reasoning. In a zeal to defend " favorite posters" Ms.Nayak ignored the fact
that Jeff had spent considerable time learning the ICM from people I could
readily recognize as experts. On the other hand, I don't see a rational motive
for an educated person in discipline A to question the credentials of another
person's credentials in discipline B, when the second person is least bit
interested in the first or what anyone says about her in RMIC. I am talking
about Mrs.Veena Sahasrabudhi (any relation to Veena Nayak is presumptious I
assume). .
>
>I have severe problems with another leit motif that appears in
>Mr. Whittier's postings under this thread: the Books vs. Experience
>issue. He clearly believes that books as a source of knowledge are
>inferior to experience. The following imaginary exchange will bring
>out the absurdity of his premiss:
>
>Whittier: The earth is flat.
>Parrikar: It has been scientifically and conclusively proved that
> the earth is round. Why, there are even pictures to show it.
>Whittier: That's baloney because you got that out of a book!
Perhaps this all makes pedagogical sense. We have to allow room for
translations and semantic fuzz. If Whittier said, "The Earth is like a gourd,"
will it satisfy Ms.Nayak who is predisposed to the assertion "Earth is round?"
Everyone has a built in bias and prejudice. I think both Parrikar and Whittier
went astray from the topic. Most newcomers still cannot infer what a Tarana is
from their exchanges, nor from the "solid reasonings" of posters Ms.Nayak
admires. One still has to go and listen to several musicians to understand what
a Tarana is. I think the whole business of Tarana is out of control. :-)
--Dakshin
WARVIJ
>A bandish that goes "tum rab tum saheb"
>has been sung as a vilambit
>khayal by BSJ in Brindabani Sarang
in vilambit jhaptaal...
>and by the Gundecha brothers as
>a dhrupad in Madhmad Sarang.
...in sulfaktaal, I believe --
both are, mirabile dictu, 10-beat cycles.
I think it is pressing the issue here, however,
to claim direct lifting of words from a dhrupad
to a khyal. Rather, I have the sense that certain
sets of lyrics are "in the air" for certain raags, and
these inform the setting of lyrics in composition.
That's not to say that dhrupads don't become khyals,
but rather that I suspect the link between a
Dagarbani dhrupad and a Kirana bada khyal is
too tenuous to confirm.
Many Jaipur and Agra vilambit khyals are definitely
rearranged dhrupads. V.H. Deshpande discusses this
in considerable detail in the little pamphlet entitled
"Maharashtra's Contribution to Music." (...and, as one
might expect given its provenance, the booklet
describes Maharashtra as absolutely ESSENTIAL to
the development of khyal.)
Alladiya Khan is given lots of credit for rearranging
the old paramparik compositions to fit Jaipur khyal
gayaki. Unfortunately we have nobody who is singing
these items in dhrupad style, so it's hard to make
a comparison.
Cheers,
Warren
Augustus T. White
WARVIJ wrote:
> of my facial topiary, and in the interests of
> continued domestic felicity I trimmed the shrubbery
> back down to a single, albeit majestic, moustache.
You mean its all on one side of your face, like a left-turn signal? Must have made a
hell of an impression in Pune. "Senders? He's the Angrez over there with the crowbar
sticking out of his nose. Can't miss him ..."
> >Are there any trivaTs floating about?
> >I've heard them live, but haven't come
> >across any recordings.
>
> If all goes well I will have released a recent
> Pune recording of my singing which includes a
> brief (but ever-so-scintillating!) Bhairavi trivat.
> Keep your fingers crossed. (irrelevant thought:
> would the Indian version of sign language be
> "oonglish"?).
What is a trivat? Something you use when the bandish is too hot to handle?
--Toby White
Augustus T. White
Veena S Nayak wrote:
> I am glad that the dispute between Mr. Whittier and
> Dr. Parrikar has been concluded. However, in my
> perusal of the thread, I find that the Mr. Whittier has
> made certain broad statements which have gone unchallenged
> by readers. I find the silence surprising
On the contrary, its pretty unsurprising because very few of us wanted or bothered to
read what was clearly a private dispute. For the same reason, I didn't read your post
once I saw what the subject matter was. Most of us have no real quarrel with Rajan,
Jeff or with you, and absolutely zero interest in quarreling as a spectator sport. As
your mom probably told you: don't pick at scabs, it just leaves a scar.
--Toby White
Bansijeff
Regarding Ghulam Mustafa Khan's Nimbus Pilu - funny, I had the same reaction,
this is worth the price of the CD. For me this piece was the first time I had
heard a Pilu with the same ideas in it I had been taught by Ali Akbar back in
the 70's, and it made me give considerable thought to the idea I have
previously mentioned about competitors in the feudal courts adopting features
of one another's performances. The guru of AAK's father Allaudin Khan was
Wazir Khan of Rampur, who was also the guru of Amjad Ali's father Hafiz Ali -
which goes to show how much divergence there can be in a couple of generations.
Wazir Khan and his clan were the competitors of the Rampur kheyal gharana in
the court of Rampur.
The rag content of these two traditions has merged somewhat due to their
physical proximity. Ghulam Mustafa was a disciple of the previously mentioned
re-tarana Nisar Hussain Khan and NHK's fatherFida Hussain to whom he is
related. The singer Hafeez Ahmed Khan was also NHK's student, and has many of
his compositions. When I listen to any of these guys I hear many of the same
phrases Ali Akbar is fond of teaching in his vocal classes and I would say
these Rampur gharana recordingsd have been a valuable source to me.
Interestingly enough, the Pundit, Bhatkhande whose texts have often been quoted
on RMIC, was also a disciple of Wazir Khan, having tied the thread according to
accounts I heard and cannot verify, and Wazir Khan was one of his important
sources for the compositions found in his books. Sometimes when Ali Akbar was
teaching out of Bhatkhande in the 70's(he doesn't any more) he would find a
bandish he recognized from his own tradition, but he would invariably change it
or edit it before teaching it to the class, telling us it had gotten botched in
the book for whatever reason, like he (Bhatkhande) didn't learn it correctly in
the first place, or there were misprints (oh God are there a lot of misprints
in those books!) or he learned the asthai (the first part) but didn't get
enough repititions on the antara (the 2nd part) to get it down, etc. Anyone
interested in researching this can compare some of the bandishes in George
Ruckert's book which in some cases were taught by AAK from Bhatkhande and
compare them with the way these same bandishes appear in Bhatkhande. I was
studying at the college around the same time as George and was in classes that
appear in that book, like Iman Kalyan, Purvi, and Asawari when AAK took them
from that source.
This unreliability of the printed page is another reason I like to go to the
performances of the Rampur singers to find out what it's supposed to sound
like. Hafeez Ahmed Khan lived in the US for a time while he taught at the U of
Minn and in addition to his commercial recordings there are a lot of private
recordings floating around of the very many house concerts he did in the US
during that period. He was the first person I ever heard do that peculiar kind
of Puriya Kalyan which has a strong Re and strong Dha which really makes it
like a "Marwa" Kalyan instead. I had heard of it before, but I had never heard
it in person until I heard him do it some time around 1975.
Jeff Whittier
Rajan P. Parrikar
In article <351C13...@neosoft.com>, Augustus White writes:
>On the contrary, its pretty unsurprising because very few of us
>wanted or bothered to read what was clearly a private dispute.
Not from this end, Toby. However, if someone nurses deep
complexes wrt you which remain unexpressed in real life, and
then decides that it is time for a catharsis in public, and brings
out of the hitherto hidden resentments, I will not hesitate to
stick it right back into him in the same forum.
Warm regards,
r
WARVIJ
>>a single, albeit majestic, moustache.
>You mean it's all on one side of your face,
>like a left-turn signal? Must have made a
>hell of an impression in Pune. "Senders?
>He's the Angrez over there with the crowbar
>sticking out of his nose. Can't miss him ..."
Just what I need on a difficult friday... a wise guy.
Okay, a pair of moustaches? That suit ya better,
buddy?
>What is a trivat? Something you use when
>the bandish is too hot to handle?
I was waiting for somebody to bring that up... sigh.
It's a composition like a tarana, but composed entirely
of drum syllables. They're quite rare.
Cheers,
Warren
Rajan P. Parrikar
In article <199803272014...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>Interestingly enough, the Pundit, Bhatkhande whose texts have often been quoted
>on RMIC, was also a disciple of Wazir Khan, having tied the thread according to
>accounts I heard and cannot verify, and Wazir Khan was one of his important
>sources for the compositions found in his books. Sometimes when Ali Akbar was
>teaching out of Bhatkhande in the 70's(he doesn't any more) he would find a
>bandish he recognized from his own tradition, but he would invariably change it
>or edit it before teaching it to the class, telling us it had gotten botched in
>the book for whatever reason, like he (Bhatkhande) didn't learn it correctly in
>the first place, or there were misprints (oh God are there a lot of misprints
>in those books!) or he learned the asthai (the first part) but didn't get
>enough repititions on the antara (the 2nd part) to get it down, etc.
Namashkar.
I would like to proffer another angle. Some of the points below are
self-evident.
1) Bandishes are not static organisms; they evolve. The variety of
expression one sees in the different renditions of the same bandish is
worthwhile. I do not buy into the notion that there is any one 'correct'
interpretation, known to only the chosen few gharAnedAr dudes.
For instance, during the making of "Legacy," Ali Akbar Khan often tweaked
the bandishes (remember, these bandishes supposedly originated in the Triassic
Age), sometimes making major changes to the material from his own
handwritten notes (dating to the 1930s). In this he was being neither unique
nor infidel: he was following 'tradition' and must be given credit for bringing
to bear his own ideas on the original germ embedded in what was handed down
to him.
2) I once came upon a splendid illustration of the "printed word" bandish
approach that Whittier has problems with. I must concede, however, that
the people I was acquainted with as regards music are not well-known, some
were not known even outside of the boundaries of what was then not even a state.
Therefore, I plead guilty to not having any bragging rights in the department
of name-dropping unlike some others. VR Athavale - no superstar by any stretch -
was the director of the Hindustani faculty at Kala Academy, Goa, sometime in the
early 1980s (brought in after Ramnathkar's demise). Someone once came up to him
with a written bandish that VRA had neither seen nor heard before. After one
glance at the notation he liked it a lot and at once abstracted out the musical
kernal from the notes. A couple of days later he demonstrated it with
refinements et al contrasting beautifully what he thought were the "original"
written ideas with what he had added on. No one who was present failed to grasp
the beauty of Athavale's interpretation, certainly the bandish was not
diminished for the fact that it had come out of a piece of paper. Au contraire.
The written word is deadwood, yes, but the human mind comprises living tissue
(at least from the point of view of the 'materialists.'). If this is a novel
idea to some, I invite them to get accustomed to it.
3) I agree with Whittier that to rely SOLELY on the printed word as a means
to understanding and/or performance in Hindustani music is folly of the
highest kind, and is likely to lead one astray. In fact, it is essential for
the musical adolescent to not learn out of the printed word until he has
attained a baseline musical maturity and an ability to wade through rAga.
What Athavale demonstrated was not v uncommon. It was possible for him
primarily because he was in possession of 3 attributes: a keen sense of
swara-dnyAna, musical intelligence - by which I mean the instinct to strip a
bandish bare of its ornaments until the central idea(s) emerged clearly in
his mind -, and to a lesser extent, a knowledge of the rAga. The minute he
saw the notation he had a fair idea where it was going. Now Athavale-sahib
was an old man at the time. But I would like to place before the readers the
wildly shocking (some would even say, subversive) idea that these attributes
are (with unstated qualification) independent of one's age. Athavale was as
capable of the same feat in his 20s. 30s or 40s. The obverse of this is
that one may never attain this facility despite having undergone years of
training or lessons "at the feet." This phenomenon is not restricted to
music but is to be found in areas as diverse as mathematics, poetry and
so on.
4) I partially agree with Shri Whittier that there are misprints in
Bhatkhande. Partially, because the number is not as large (or large enough
to impede progress) as seems to come through Shri Whittier's posts. To
someone already with a firm grounding in the essentials, Bhatkhande is
a treasure. In this opinion, I have not relied on hearsay, nor would I take
the word of any big banana: I have undergone the experience myself of studying
much of the material in all of the pundit's volumes. Thanks to people such
as Athavale and others (whom I do not name since they are not known except
to the musically unusually well-informed in Goa and Maharasthra) to whom
one had access, one could learn the art of "creating" music from the barebones.
As a result I never thought it a greater virtue to rely only on that
instruction that comes forth from being in close proximity to a hotshot
guru's feet. People such as Ramnathkar and Athavale stressed and encouraged
individual manan-chintan while not repudiating the more traditional techniques.
They believed in the "different strokes for different folks" adage.
This is a marvellous method, not only for learning music but for a lot of other
things as well. To view, say, a bandish as a challenge - like a crossword
puzzle, almost - where you attempt to fill in the gaps, to hold it in your
mind for a few days, sometimes weeks, nurturing and nourishing it - NOTHING can
compensate for this kind of learning. Men like Athavale and Ramnathkar
were great role models, inspiration; they taught by example. Just being around
them was enough. Such conditioning makes one get used to not being spoon-fed,
but to work out the "missing steps" by oneself. In so doing, you not only see
features of bandishes hitherto invisible, you get to think of and
in the rAga as an added bonus. I would like to submit that such kind of
knowledge, gotten by stubbing your toe hard, by making mistakes along the way
but nevertheless making inexorable progress, through self-discovery and
measured guidance, is not only of a superior kind but the material learnt
and assimilated has a way of being more lasting and fulfilling.
Warm regards,
r
Rajan P. Parrikar
Namashkar.
Yetanudder snippet on Gaud Sarang:
I have already dealt with this issue, the following is merely for
completeness. Bhatkhande's volumes often come in for flak even from those
who have never read it. It almost always happens whenever the material
therein is not convenient to the one criticising it. And so charges fly that
it is full of misprints, the cover is not glossy enough, Bhatkhande had
a pimple on his nose and so on.
On the Gaud Sarang issue, I checked out what our dear old Ramkrishnabuwa
Vaze (affectionately known as 'Vazebuwa') had to say. Like Bhatkhande,
Vazebuwa was a relentless searcher of musical "truth" as it were. Unlike
Bhatkhande, Vazebuwa was also one of the greatest musicians of his day
and an exceptional teacher. In his valuable work "Sangeet Kala
Prakash" (1937), Vazebuwa reports the Aroha/Avaroha set of Gaud Sarang
as follows:
S, GRMG, P mDP, NDS":: S" D N P Dm PG MR GS
^^^^^^^^----> Voila Monsieur Poirot!
Vazebuwa'a set is slightly different from Bhatkhande's. He also cites the
vAdi/samvAdi of G-Sarang as D/G, the reverse of what Bhatkhande says in
his work. Makes for an interesting world. Note that I do NOT hold that the
above phrase is used by everybody. My aim was only to show, when the silly
objection was raised, that at least SOME have used it, that it is legit.
Now, it is possible that all the printers in India were involved in a
cosmic conspiracy to misprint whenever they saw the Avaroha of Gaud
Sarang. It is also possible that Bhatkhande and Vazebuwa and others were
smoking pot when they were writing their books. It is also possible that
they had a sense of humour and deliberately fudged swarAs in anticipation
to mislead a certain Mr. Parrikar in 1998. The realm of possibilities is
infinite; not so the realm of probablities.
From now on, I refuse to be drawn into so unequal a contest and will lock
horns on rAgadhAri only with those who display at least an intermediate
level of knowledge on the topic. That's all for now. I will be off this
group for about 3/4 weeks due to exigencies at work and will not be
tuning in. I hope that when I return you will have nurtured the carnal
and carnivorous atmosphere so that I can sink my teeth right back in.
Until then,
Yodlee yodlee yodleeoooooooooo,
(did anyone notice the extra 'o'?)
r
Bansijeff
Dear Ms. Nayak,
More on Guar Sarang in another posting, but as for the rest you have taken my
comments out of context, the context being that my statements about Mr.
Parrikar were offered as a response to his cheap shots at Veena Sahasrabuddhe's
academic credentials, statements about 5 postings later he admitted were
absurd.
A friend of mine who plays tabla for Veena's lessons when she is here in the
Bay Area tells me that Veena once remarked that she likes to go to the
performances of young artists in order to study the minds of the artists, to
see the ideas that they are working with even if the performances are not
perfected. This is an example of how the minds of the true pandits work. What
a different attitude this is from Mr. Parrikar, who offers shots at anyone in
his sights, including good artists.
Over the years I have noticed two artists who would always be at the
performances of visiting young musicians - my former teacher GS Sachdev and
Jnan Prakash Ghosh, the true pandit of tabla, harmonium and bandish. JP Ghosh
would even go out and play tabla for the gigs of some of the advanced students
of the Ali Akbar College, that's how truly humble he was. Each of these people
would always offer correct, insightful, yet kind criticisms of the young
artists - I never heard either one give a cheap shot.
Now I myself have received the kindness of the true pandits several times. In
1993 when Hariprasad Chaurasia was here staying with Sanjay Iyer, he obtained
his second flute from me, which he used on some of the Nimbus recordings. I
showed him the video of a show I had done on TV and he said to me, "You are
playing well now. You should be on the stage, it is the only way you will get
to the next level. Try to play in India." I replied to him that I considered
myself just a student who knew some good bandishes and how to go in and out of
them, and he said back to me, "No, no, no. I know better than anyone. You
should be on the stage, it's what you need to do." This turned out to be the
best career advice I ever got from anyone, including my teachers.
One night when I was playing in the restaurant, an old man in a dhoti came in
with a well-dressed woman and her two kids. He stood at the edge of his table
giving me a piercing gaze which I knew to be "cross-examination." We played
Hansadhwani and I noticed his finger keeping the tal on his table, so I knew he
was knowledgeable. When we had finished the piece, the woman from his table
came up and very deliberately put $5 in our tips basket, so I knew I had passed
his test. A few weeks later I sat in the front row of a concert by the
Carnatic viola master, Annavarupa Ramaswami (sorry if I misspelled) and noticed
that he kept looking right at me. After 10 minutes, I realized - that's the
old man in the dhoti! The woman sitting one person away was the one with the
$5
I don't want you to think I only play in restaurants - I also play in ashrams,
temples, living rooms and concert stages anywhere they'll have me. Once I was
playing a house concert for Diwali, and after my performance of rag Desh a
young Indian woman came up to me and said that this piece had reminded her of
home so much she had been crying. That is of course, exactly the rasa or mood
of rag Desh - nostalgia for one's homeland. I treasure this comment above all
others in my career.
Now let us see what Mr. Parrikar has to say about young women in the audience
(from his 10/20/97 review of Bud. Mukherjee) "Within a few minutes the cheap
meends started and all the bong women in the audience had their first orgasm of
the evening (it doesn't take much to please them. For scientific proof of
this, please look at the bong men bwahahahaha." Please note the insults to
Bengalis and women, a real theme in the writings of a person you hold up to be
a shining example whose "opinions and beliefs are backed by solid reasoning"
(your words). I say - NOT!
Rajan has several times accused me of plotting violence against him, referring
to my metaphor clearly indentified as such, saying "Perception is more
important than intent and I definitely perceived a very hostile undertone
have an ominous undertone and feel very uneasy about it." Thus Rajan shows his
paranoia for all to see. I have committed the crime of standing up to his
intellectual bullying, for Rajan seeks to intimidate those who he cannot
convince. I have received numerous encouraging messages in this dispute from
people who say they would like to post their own opinions in RMIC but are
afraid Rajan will attack them, and see his treatment of my recommendation of
Veena's taranas as an example of what he does to people who disagree with him.
"Pedantic" and "condescending" are favorite words associated with his postings
by these people afraid to voice their own opinions. As for myself, I simply
skip over the paranoid eruditions posted by Parrikar, as I would the
blabberings of any other nut case who would accuse me of plotting violence
against them simply for the crime of forcefully disagreeing with them.
Jeff Whittier
Rajan P. Parrikar
Your KHalifa returns! But (alas) not for long, just for this one-shot note about a
Bhoop tarAnA that he had written up earlier.
Some of you may have heard the nice tarAnA bandish in Bhoop on the "Legacy"
album of Mr Khan of San Rafael and Ms Bhonsle of Mumbai. The alert will also have
noticed that Mr Khan has been careless and philandered with the shuddha nishAd in
an ungainly fashion in the interludes (S"NS" S"NS" S"NS"...ughhhhhh!). When I have
the time (not for the next 3/4 weeks) I'd like offer Mr Khan a counseling session
over coffee and bagels (or if he so desires, 'cheej pijaa') so that he may overcome
his difficulties in Bhoop.
Oh and one last item: To the lady who wrote in after my Khamaj bandish (sorry, I
deleted your email by mistake) asking for non-classical material in that rAga, I
forgot to include another very nice composition of Manna Dey (non-filmi): "bindiyA
jAne kahAN khoyi, maiN to sAri ratiyA nahiN soyi..." As an aside, the worst, most
disgusting Khamaj I've heard is on the sitar by one of the so-called "advanced
students" of the ustad. It must be confessed that "advanced" here qualifies age only.
He first raped it and then ripped it to shreds, rendering the atmosphere carnal and
carnivorous. As an apostle of non-violence, my tender heart wept at the sight. My
heart wept for the ustad who was present and whose face shrank to a singularity
at this harakiri. But a couple of things in the "advanced student"'s favour: One,
he has been studying "at the feet" for "more than 30 years" and can drop names
as effortlessly as Madonna can drop her panties. Two, he has the potential to be
a good restaurant performer.
Your beloved KHalifa will be back in a few weeks; I cannot bear the pain of
separation from my RMIC brood for too long. I won't be tuning in to the group
but if you have questions on the bandish itself, please feel free to use email
although I cannot guarantee a prompt response.
The following composition of Ratnakant Ramnathkar can be improved upon, especially
by those armed with a reasonable tablA/pakhAwaj repertoire. Use it to expand the
last line by inserting, say, a more elaborate tihAi. Also, it uses the 'yalali'
bols that someone has inquired about earlier.
Yodlee yodlee yodleeeooooooooo
(a phrase from the Kishore Kumar gharAnA)
r
Raga: Bhoop/Bhoopali
Tala: EktAla
Composer: Ratnakant Ramnathkar
itAre tAnom tananana
itAre tadAre dAre dAni tana
tum dir dir tum dir dir
tum dir dir dir dir dir
tana na na na na na na
yalali yalali yali yalAli
yala lomay yala lomay yalAli
dhA kiTA taka dhum kiTa taka
kiTa taka dhi-kDAn dhiri kiTa taka
dhA dhA kiTa taka dhAti dhA dhA
Asthaie:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
S S - (S)R
i.....tA...... re
P - (P)G -G (G)D P G R S S - (S)R
tA . no.....m ta na na na i.....tA...... re
D' S D' S - S R - R - S R
ta dA re dA..........re dA..........ni..... ta na
G R R P P G S" S" D S" S" R"
tum dir dir tum dir dir tum dir dir dir dir dir
S" S"(S")D (D)P (P)G (G)R S R
ta na na na na na na na
Antara:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
S" D S" D P (P)G G P (S")D S" - S"
ya la li ya la li ya li ya lA............li
S" D S" S" R" R" G" R" S" D - P
ya la lo me ya la lo ma ya lA............li
G G P G G R G P P D S" (S")R"
dhA kiTa taka dhum kiTa taka dhi kDA...n dhiri kiTa taka
S" S" D P G R S S
dhA dhA kiTa taka dhA ti dhA dhA
Rajib Doogar
Rajan P. Parrikar (parr...@rococo.Colorado.EDU) wrote:
: But a couple of things in the "advanced student"'s
: favour One, he has been studying "at the feet" for "more than 30
: years" and can drop names as effortlessly as Madonna can drop her
: panties. Two, he has the potential to be a good restaurant performer.
: Your beloved KHalifa will be back in a few weeks; I cannot bear the
: pain of separation from my RMIC brood for too long.
Two points:
Khalifa indeed: you do sound more like one of those old ustads whose
language reflected the houses of ill repute where they found shelter.
Second, ugliness of bandishes seems to be a recurrent theme of your
criticisms does it not? I suggest to you that your rhetoric renders
some of your comments on rmic threads similarly problematic. At this
point your postings remind me of the old kafi bandish "kochubone hege
dilo kaalo kukure" ("the black dog went in the forest"): no matter how
great the ustad, the wording renders the bandish unsuitable for public
purveyance. I recommend cogitation on this theme during your asence.
cheers,
Rajib Doogar http://www.nd.edu/~rdoogar
375 College of Business Administration
University of Notre Dame Ph: (219) 631 6499
Notre Dame, IN 46556-0339 Fax: (219) 631 5255
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Think as I think," said a man, "or you are abominably wicked: You are a
toad." And after I had thought of it, I said, "I will, then, be a toad."
-- Stephen Crane
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Augustus T. White
Bansijeff wrote:
> Dear Ms. Nayak,
I knew she'd get you two started again.
If y'all insist on turning this into a forum for the politics of
personality, here's my vote: I'm unsubscribing for a month or so. Have
at it.
--Toby White
Ashok
In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.98032...@callisto.acsu.buffalo.edu>, vna...@acsu.buffalo.edu
says...
>May I suggest to Mr. Whittier that RMIC readers do not need
>muddleheaded mullahs of mediocrity (I am really getting this
>cheapo-alliteration stuff!) to champion the cause of intellectualism:
>we are doing just fine here with the likes of Mr. Senders and
>Dr. Parrikar.
>Veena
Trying to figure out what Dr. Veena S. is saying here. By any
chance does she mean: given that RMIC readers already have two
champion muddleheaded mullahs of mediocrity, they do not need
a third contender?
Ashok
WARVIJ
>Trying to figure out what Dr. Veena S. is saying here.
Wrong Veena.
One ("S") is the subject of wrangling and rancor, the
other ("N") is a relatively recent entry into the
fray.
Warren ("S")
Veena S Nayak
On 29 Mar 1998, Bansijeff wrote:
> Dear Ms. Nayak,
> More on Guar Sarang in another posting, but as for the rest you have taken my
> comments out of context, the context being that my statements about Mr.
> Parrikar were offered as a response to his cheap shots at Veena Sahasrabuddhe's
> academic credentials, statements about 5 postings later he admitted were
> absurd.
Pardon me, Mr. Whittier for not being able to read and
understand; I was under the mistaken impression that
the main issue was Ms. Sahasrabuddhe's skills in tarana
rendition. You proferred her dissertation as proof of
the said skills; Dr. Parrikar contested your claim by
(a) pointing out the inadequacy of your evidence in
supporting your claim and (b) providing his own
assessment of the singer's tarana rendition based
on available recordings. Now, unfortunately for all
of us, Dr. Parrikar had to make some wiseass remarks
about Ms. S's Ph.D. thesis. You challenged him on that
issue (and rightly so) but I am still waiting for you to
provide sound reasons for your assertions regarding
Ms. Sahasrabuddhe's tarana skills, or even to convincingly
defend the validity of your earlier evidence.
Btw, in the "5 postings" before Dr. Parrikar admitted
in his pedantic drone that his ridicule was absurd, I
got introduced to 3 tarana bandishes and also enjoyed
some insightful comments on bandishes and ragas in general.
There were plenty of cheap shots, but of course, I am not
smart and clever as you are, Mr. Whittier: I take things
out of context and tend to discard the chaff for the grain.
From your postings under this thread, I have gleaned the
following gems: you have studied with Guru X, Parrikar loves
to "cheap-shot", you have performed here and there, Parrikar
is blowing hot air, Pandit Y praised you, Parrikar is racist,
you have learnt from Ustad Z, Parrikar got his knowledge out
of books.....
But again, I have this nasty habit of taking things out of context.
< Chicken-soup-for-the-soul stories by Mr. Whittier deleted >
> Now let us see what Mr. Parrikar has to say about young women in the audience
> (from his 10/20/97 review of Bud. Mukherjee) "Within a few minutes the cheap
> meends started and all the bong women in the audience had their first orgasm of
> the evening (it doesn't take much to please them. For scientific proof of
> this, please look at the bong men bwahahahaha." Please note the insults to
> Bengalis and women, a real theme in the writings of a person you hold up
> to be a shining example whose "opinions and beliefs are backed by solid
> reasoning" (your words). I say - NOT!
You are barking up the wrong tree, Mr. Whittier. I care two hoots
about Dr. Parrikar's opinions on women; young, middle-aged or
old, orgasmic or otherwise. Also, "you are taking my words out
of context"; the opinions and beliefs that I was referring to were
with respect to *musical* matters.
As an aside: in the "bong women" controversy, it was interesting
to note that no woman, Bengali or otherwise registered a protest.
Now, that may imply one of three things:
1) There are no women, Bengali or otherwise, in the RMIC audience.
2) The women found Dr. Parrikar's remarks irrelevant, amusing or
unworthy of response.
3) The women felt insulted but were too terrified of the demonic
Dr. Parrikar to say anything.
It does not matter which is true because there were plenty of Bengali
men, thumping their manly chests, who rushed to defend their women's
virtue and honour. The glorious display of male chivalry warmed my
heart; I did not for a moment believe that it was actually wounded
vanity (please note the last part of the statement quoted by
Mr. Whittier) that motivated their outrage.
> intellectual bullying, for Rajan seeks to intimidate those who he cannot
> convince. I have received numerous encouraging messages in this dispute from
> people who say they would like to post their own opinions in RMIC but are
> afraid Rajan will attack them,
Well, now that Pied Piper is here with his bansi, the rats should
have no trouble coming out of their holes, should they? And while
they are at it, maybe they should sign their names instead of
hiding behind anonymous alphabets such as L, M, K and other such.
> skip over the paranoid eruditions posted by Parrikar, as I would the
> blabberings of any other nut case who would accuse me of plotting violence
> against them simply for the crime of forcefully disagreeing with them.
Your Gandhian dhoti is slipping, Mr. Whittier, and the
sight is not pretty. I remember that you recently accused
Dr. Parrikar of an "intellectual reign of terror" simply
because he forcefully disagreed with you.
I know that it is passe nowadays to quote dead white males,
but here is something that a great American writer said of
music and men (of course, I got it out of a book because
the chap died 136 years ago):
"I can tell the extent to which a man has heard music by the
faith he retains in the trivial and mean, even by the importance
he attaches to what is called the actual world. Any memorable
strain will have unsettled so low a faith and substituted a
higher. Men profess to be lovers of music but for the most part
they give no evidence in their opinions and lives that they
have heard it".
Mull on it, Mr. Whittier.
Veena
Rajib Doogar
Rajib Doogar (rdo...@wood.helios.nd.edu) wrote:
<among other presently irrelevant marginalia)
: Second, ugliness of bandishes seems to be a recurrent theme of your
: criticisms does it not?
which, upon further consideration must, in the interests of accuracy,
be amended to read:
"Ugliness of bandishes is an important aesthetic criterion."
since I am told by no less a reliable source than Rajan himself that
the ugly bandish theme is not *his* bete noire. I trust Rajan to know
what he says and apologize for the unwarranted imputation that he has
ever held forth on the importance of the beauty of bandishes as an
important criterion. I must of course also apologize to the hapless
soul whose bete noire it actually is for having deprived hir of their
15 seconds of rmic immortality. I blush, I squirm, I am momentarily
rendered speechless with mortification. But only momentarily.
(if you are still reading this thread and this post you obviously have
time to waste, so don't crib about waste of bandwidth -- this is
written expressly for people like you:)
As an aside, I'm quite surprised that anyone feels rajan needs
defending: Jeff's complaints read to me as little more than the
eternal railings of the offended artist. Of course all artists feel
insensitive critics are loud-mouthed, stupid Neanderthals, intending
Robespierres, incapable of judgment, ignorant and unable to adduce
sufficient reasons for holding their obviously despicable and
contemptibly wrong-headed opinions and invariably guilty of lese
majeste (sp?). Its as common as it is stupid and thin-skinned. I say
this with considerable personal authority: I feel the same way Jeff
does when someone has a bluntly put criticism of my paper. Usually,
in my trade, we go drink a beer instead of taking cheap potshots on
rmic by revealing how one failed to nod during a performance or how
one gave money.
To answer another question posed by private e-mail: No, I'm not taking
Jeff's side. I don't know Jeff and simply don't have any evidence as
to his capacity to sing anything (on rmic) yet, except perhaps "the
kitchen is too hot". I *do* know rajan (virtually I might add) and
have expectations of him based on his past contributions. I hope this
explains why I'd posed this puzzler about the quality of one's
bandishes for him alone and not for Jeff also.
cheers and hoping time hangs less heavy on your hands for having read
this,
rajib
--
Ashok
In article <199803301937...@ladder03.news.aol.com>, war...@aol.comc says...
The recent entry into wrangling and rancour is,
mirabile dictu, Dr. Veena S. Nayak.
Ashok
DGandikota
>From: ADhar...@WorldBank.Org (Ashok)
>Date: Wed, Apr 1, 1998 19:07 EST
>Message-id: <6fukrf$f...@news3.newsguy.com>
Since all doctors are by faith (I don't carry my certificate
everyday), we have seen quite a few of them in this thread
questioning the faith of others about ICM musicians.
I thought all doctors are a harmonious bunch looking down
on the rest of the less achievers :-) However, one doctor's
"kaala kure" or
whatever bandish that mentions a black dog retreating to
forests, takes the cake. On one hand, a black dog is singled
out for a rebuke. On the other, it was given as a challenging
puzzle for those remaining on the thread. I wonder if
any of these doctors can heal anything (not me :-). I hope
one day Tarana can be discussed for its merit or lack of it.
--Dakshin
ACE330
Rajan Parrrikar is hardly the one to now whine and complain !!
Full of "theoreticall knowledge" from largely Marathi authors he has enjoyed
insulting any non-Marathi musicians. No one , not even Ustad Allauddin Khan,
Ali Akbar, Pt Ravi Shankar, Pt Ajoy Chakrabarty, Pt Budhaditya Mukherjee,
Debabrata Chowdhury on and on, can EVER give a good recital. He has used
disgusting language unfit for a "educated" person in expressing the worst
regional biases I have ever read.
Reproducing material from from a few obscure books does not make Parrikar a
musician. If he is so great then let him sit on the stage with one of the above
musicians and let us see how accomplished he really is.
To Mr Jeff Whittier, I hope you will not take some of these regionally-biased
Shiv-Sena types to be representative of Indian Classical music lovers. ICM
requires Sadhana, requires humility.
The great Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan Saheb once said in a private recital at
the residence of Pt Jnan Prokash Ghosh -- Mujhe dar lagta hai. Yeh to hawa ke
kaam hai. Hawa kisise kabool nahi rehte.(loosely translated -- I am scared to
sing before you.... Sur comes from the wind. The wind is not easily
conquered... only by grace of Allah can I domesticate the wind!).
Such is the humility of the true Pandit or Ustad.
Dr. Asoke Chatterjee
DGandikota
bans...@aol.com [Jeff] thought I have reposted this article. It is better to
clarify here than by email.
Here are the two headers. The two have the same message id fields but
different dates. By the way the 8 digits of the message
id, in this case, indicate the date in yyyy/mm/dd format.
A good case of slyness in lieu of originality. I opt for the
latter and see if there is a face behind this worthy of mention.
>From: dgand...@aol.com (DGandikota)
>Date: Fri, May 15, 1998 05:15 EDT
>Message-id: <199804020150...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
>
>
>From: dgand...@aol.com (DGandikota)
>Date: 1998/04/02
>Message-ID: ><199804020150...@ladder01.news.aol.com>