Thiruppugazh
Subbarayan Pasupathy
Subbarayan Pasupathy
appeared in this group recently.
1. Apart from Alathoor Bros, Chithoor Subramania Pillai,and Madurai
Somasundaram were others who popularized Thiruppugazh. I remember
(with sadness and nostalgia) Madurai Somu singing an all Thiruppugazh
concert in Vadapazhani Temple in Madras the year before he passed
away. The `Bhavaani' raga alapana he did before singing a Thiruppugazh
still rings in my ear. Incidentally, during August, there are many
Thiruppugazh concerts held in the above temple in connection with
Arunagirinathar Day. I have heard DKJayaraman, Tanjore Sankara Iyer among
others who have sung in the above festival. In recent years, T N Seshagopalan
(who knows a lot of Thiruppugazh) gave an all Thiruppugazh concert in
Tamil Isai Sangam during the Music Season.
2. Thiruppugazh is a repository of exotic rhythmic measures and it is no
exaggeration to say that mrdangists think twice before agreeing to play
for Tpugazh. I believe that taking up a Tpugazh , with a little bit of
swaraprasthara and a Mrdangam thani would not only show the artists'
mastery over laya but also the richness of our musical compositions in
this (often ignored) aspect of our music. Indeed the only musical compositions
in such rare anga thalas to be found today are these Tpugazh songs.
I have heard D.K.Pattammal do a little swara prasthara for a Tpugazh in her
earlier years. I am told that D.K. Jayaraman has also done it. (D.K.P
learnt her Tpugazh from Naina Pillai , Guru of Chithoor Subramania Pillai).
I am told that T. K. Murthy , in last year's Music Season at the Music
Academy, played for a Tpugazh (sung by S.R.Janakiraman) at a lec/dem.
3.Delhi Raghavan has tuned more than 400 of Tpugazh songs in more than
100 ragas and has trained many persons all over the world . Last year
he and his group gave a short group-singing concert in the Music Academy
during the morning session. I believe that he also gave a lec/dem on the
Tpugazh chandams.
S.Pasupathy
pas...@ecf.toronto.edu
Ramana Mani
Subbarayan Pasupathy <pas...@ecf.toronto.edu> wrote:
>Here are some comments regarding the articles on Thiruppugazh that
>appeared in this group recently.
>1. Apart from Alathoor Bros, Chithoor Subramania Pillai,and Madurai
>Somasundaram were others who popularized Thiruppugazh
Thanks to both Muthu and Pasupathy for enlightening articles on the
Thiruppugazh. I would just like to add the name of Naina Pillai in the
list of people who have contributed to the popularization of
Thiruppugazh. Practically all Tiruppugazh songs in the "standard"
Karnatic music concert repertoire were tuned by him during the first
few decades of this century.
Ramana
Ranjani Saigal
given by my father. First I would like to mention that my father is quite
a Tamil pullaver who enjoys Arunagirinadhar's works very much. He is
also a great carnatic music affectionado who loves to write tamil songs and
poetry
for a hobby. He has translated a few sanskrit songs including the wonderful
Bhavayami Raghuramam (which is probably more manipravalam than pure sanskrit
anyway) into tamil.
But he strongly feels that only a few Thirupugazhs can really
can be rendered beautifully. He feels that Sri Arunagirinadhar wrote most
of them as poetry and writing poetry and songs are very different issues.
While he does believe that it is nice that so many people are familiarizing
themselves with Thirupugazh, he feels that trying to constrain it to
fit the talams and Ragams really makes it very unaesthetic. He feels that the
complex rhythmic structure along with the words themselves which were not
composed with melody and harmony in mind make for really strange music.
Any comments(no flames please)?
Ranjani Saigal
Srini Pichumani
<mu...@cip.physik.uni-dortmund.de> wrote:
>
>Thirupugazh - composed by Arunagirinathar whose period is still
>uncertain.
Yes; still, based on the evidence i.e. his connection with the
Vijayanagara king/regent PrauDa deva rAya, and the contest
between him and VilliputturAr of the Tamil mahAbhAratam fame,
scholars assign him to the 1300s. T.V.Kuppuswami in his recent
book "Carnatic Music and the Tamils" gives the probable dates
as 1299 A.D. - the latter part of the 1300s.
>are mentioned. All Thirupugazhs end with the word "PerumaLE". Apart from
>Thirupugazh, Arunagiri has also composed (among other things) Kandar
>AlangAram, Kandar AntAdi (which was composed in a competition between
>him and VilliputhurAr who wrote Villi Bharatam) etc.
Seerkazhi Govindarajan's clear, ringing rendition of
"nAL en seyum vinai dAn en seyum"
from the Kandar AlangAram is very very inspiring...
In most of his lec-dems, Prof.S.R.Janakiraman starts off with
the invocatory verse from the Sangita Ratnakara of Sarngadeva
("brahmagrantija mArutAnugatinA cittena hrtpankaje ...) and
a verse from this Kandar antAdi which is entirely in ta-kAra,
"titat-tat-tat-tittit-tAtai...".
In article <D69K7...@ecf.toronto.edu>, Subbarayan Pasupathy
<pas...@ecf.toronto.edu> wrote:
>
>2. Thiruppugazh is a repository of exotic rhythmic measures and it is no
>exaggeration to say that mrdangists think twice before agreeing to play
>for Tpugazh. I believe that taking up a Tpugazh , with a little bit of
>swaraprasthara and a Mrdangam thani would not only show the artists'
>mastery over laya but also the richness of our musical compositions in
>this (often ignored) aspect of our music. Indeed the only musical compositions
>in such rare anga thalas to be found today are these Tpugazh songs.
>I have heard D.K.Pattammal do a little swara prasthara for a Tpugazh in her
>earlier years. I am told that D.K. Jayaraman has also done it. (D.K.P
>learnt her Tpugazh from Naina Pillai , Guru of Chithoor Subramania Pillai).
>I am told that T. K. Murthy , in last year's Music Season at the Music
>Academy, played for a Tpugazh (sung by S.R.Janakiraman) at a lec/dem.
SRJ sang a couple of tiruppugazh verses in these rare tAlas during
his 92/93 visits to the U.S., one of which was
kAranamadAga vandu buvi mIdE
kAlananugAdisaindu gati kANa
nAraNanum vEdan munbu teriyAda
gnAna natamE purindu varuvAyE
AramudamAna mangai maNavALa
Arumugam AriraNDu vizhiyOnE
sUrarkiLai mALa venRa vaDivElA
sOlaimalai mEvi ninRa perumAlE
He sang it in the rAga shubALi (shubhapantuvarALi without P),
and the tAlam
taka-takita takita takita taka-dimi-taka
In this case, I find that the tAla structure closely mirrors the
"syllabic content" (including the extensions) of the text e.g.
kA.. ranama dA..ga van.du buvi mI.. dE..
taka takita takita takita taka dimi taka
Hence, here and possibly in other such cases, it is actually
quite easy to sing the tiruppugazh just by itself. However,
showing the tAlam with the hand takes more practice and care.
And definitely an interesting elaboration, tani, etc would call
for great skill.
Another tiruppugazh that he sang in a "8.75" tAla (I think
the cycle was composed of a taka-takita phrase in the 1st,
2nd, and 3rd degree of speed, in that order) was in the rAga
vijayanAgari and started off as "parimAla gala.... ".
-Srini.
mu...@cip.physik.uni-dortmund.de
: In article <3ldoo0$s...@nx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de>,
: <mu...@cip.physik.uni-dortmund.de> wrote:
[..]
: >are mentioned. All Thirupugazhs end with the word "PerumaLE".
An interesting aside - Papanasam Sivan refers to the
word Thiruppugahzh in many of his Kritis on Muruga. e.g. .."Nin
Tiruppugazh tanaiyE.." in "GAna Rasamudan", "Viruppurum ViNNOrkum
kidaikarum tintamizh thiruppugazh.." in "Tirupparankundra VEla.." etc.
And the kriti "ThaNigai Valar" (Todi) ends "VEl koL PerumaLE".
: In most of his lec-dems, Prof.S.R.Janakiraman starts off with
: the invocatory verse from the Sangita Ratnakara of Sarngadeva
: ("brahmagrantija mArutAnugatinA cittena hrtpankaje ...) and
: a verse from this Kandar antAdi which is entirely in ta-kAra,
: "titat-tat-tat-tittit-tAtai...".
Yes, one of his Gurus (I forget his name- he used to live in Ambattur)
was a Thiruppugazh scholar. The antAdi you refer to was in fact the one
that made Villiputurar concede defeat in the competition.
: SRJ sang a couple of tiruppugazh verses in these rare tAlas during
: his 92/93 visits to the U.S., one of which was
: kAranamadAga vandu buvi mIdE
: kAlananugAdisaindu gati kANa
: nAraNanum vEdan munbu teriyAda
: gnAna natamE purindu varuvAyE
: AramudamAna mangai maNavALa
: Arumugam AriraNDu vizhiyOnE
: sUrarkiLai mALa venRa vaDivElA
: sOlaimalai mEvi ninRa perumAlE
: He sang it in the rAga shubALi (shubhapantuvarALi without P),
: and the tAlam
:
: taka-takita takita takita taka-dimi-taka
: In this case, I find that the tAla structure closely mirrors the
: "syllabic content" (including the extensions) of the text e.g.
: kA.. ranama dA..ga van.du buvi mI.. dE..
: taka takita takita takita taka dimi taka
: Hence, here and possibly in other such cases, it is actually
: quite easy to sing the tiruppugazh just by itself. However,
: showing the tAlam with the hand takes more practice and care.
: And definitely an interesting elaboration, tani, etc would call
: for great skill.
Actually, percussionists find it easy doing what you said, viz., look at
the words themselves. As an example, the Thiruppugazh you mentioned
would just be 2.5 + 1.5 + 2 + 3. The problem usually is the Mora-Korvai
played at the end, but then that is a different subj altogether.
muthu
Ranganathan Srikanth
>Kandhar Andaahi has a very unique setup wherein the first word of
>each line starts with the same word and rhymes that way.
Prof SRJ. in almost all of his lec-dems sings a verse from the
kandhar antHAdi. I recall him splitting the word antHAdi as
antham and Adi and explaining the verse as the end of a verse
becoming the beginning of the following verse ie. the antham
becomes the Adi. Any comments?
srikanth
Srini Pichumani
>
>Another tiruppugazh that he sang in a "8.75" tAla (I think
>the cycle was composed of a taka-takita phrase in the 1st,
>2nd, and 3rd degree of speed, in that order) was in the rAga
>vijayanAgari and started off as "parimAla gala.... ".
I goofed up here. "parimaLa kalabha sugandha" is quite
uncomplicated - it is set in a regular chaturashra gait
in chaturashra aTa tAlam. The last 2 lines, for example
are,
tiri pura daga narum | van. dik. kum. sat. | guru nA.. | dA.. .... ||
jaya jaya hara hara | sen. dir. kan. da.. | peru mA.. | LE.. .... ||
The complicated one I am thinking of is "sinattavar muDikkum ...".
SRJ sang it (in nATakurinji) at a concert at the Pitts temple.
PJN or someone from Pitts, can you confirm the rhythmic setup
of this tiruppugazh ?
-Srini.
ps: Apparently, chaturashra jAti aTa tAlam (4+4+2+2) was
the earlier norm for aTa tAlam, as in the 108 tAla setup,
as opposed to the later khanDa jAti aTa tAlam (5+5+2+2).
Sethu
Tiruppugazh
Vel Viruddham (10 songs about Murugan's Vel Spear)
Mazhil Viruddham (10 songs about Murugan's Mazhil Peacock)
Seval Viruddham (10 songs about Murugan's Seval Rooster)
Kandhar Anuboothi (51 songs on Bliss)
Kandhar Alankaram (100+ songs)
Kandhar Andaadhi (100+ songs)
Kandhar Andaahi has a very unique setup wherein the first word of
each line starts with the same word and rhymes that way.
Seyavan Pundhi Vanavaasa Maadhudan..
Seyavan Pundhi Kanikasaraandagan..
...
Delhi Raghavan (popularly called as Guruji Raghavan) has an association
called "Tiruppugazh Anbargal" and it is widely popular in Bombay, Delhi,
Calcutta, Bangalore and Madras.
Recently they have released two books which have more information.
"Tiruppugazh Madaani" and "Tiruppugazh Vazhipaadu". I haven't seen
the first one but I've a copy of "Tiruppugazh Vazhipaadu" wherein
the tAla and raga of each song is printed above the song.
Some important dates:
January 26: Padi Vizha in Subramaniaswamy Temple, Chembur, Bombay
A song in each step to reach the Temple. It takes normally
4-5 hours.
December 31: Padi Vizha in Tiruttani Temple
January 1st (I may be wrong on this date)
Arungirinadhar Day in Malai Mandir, New Delhi.
Thanks,
Sethu
P J Narayanan
Srini Pichumani <sr...@quip.eecs.umich.edu> wrote:
>The complicated one I am thinking of is "sinattavar muDikkum ...".
>SRJ sang it (in nATakurinji) at a concert at the Pitts temple.
>PJN or someone from Pitts, can you confirm the rhythmic setup
>of this tiruppugazh ?
>
>-Srini.
Yes, SRJ sang the nATTakkurunji tiruppugazh in an "8.75" tALam.
It was, like Srini said, three taka-takiTas in succession, each
sung in double the speed of the previous.
Such complicated tALams are best used only for poetry/lyrics that match
its structure. (In fact, I have it backwards; the tALam is "invented"
to match the lyrics). I would personally consider swaram/tani/kOrvais
set to such tALams closer to show-off.
M. D. Ramanathan showing off speed? Yes, that is what I am about to
say. I have a recording of MDR singing Pallvi Gopala Iyer's
"nIdumUrttini kanukoni" in nATTakkurunji at the pace of the Japanese
Shinkansen Bullet Train! The words are mostly swallowed; so is the
rAgam. I wouldn't have figured the rAgam out but for the lower tishram
he does with the chiTTaswarams at the end!
PJN
--
---
Robotics Institute, CMU p...@cs.cmu.edu
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
---
Srinivasan Vanchinathan
>each line starts with the same word and rhymes that way.
This is also true with Abhirami Anthadhi. Prof SRJ's reasoning sounds logical looking from this point of view. But I am not really sure. Comments Welcome.
Cheenu
M. V. Ramana
> Yes, one of his Gurus (I forget his name- he used to live in Ambattur)
> was a Thiruppugazh scholar. The antAdi you refer to was in fact the one
> that made Villiputurar concede defeat in the competition.
I think the Guru you are referring to is P.K. Rajagopala Iyer.
Ramana
Lakshminarayana
charge of being a tamizh fanatic and his observation that the trinity
has done it all-
I feel that they were outrageous comments.Carnatic music did not come to
extinction after the period of trinity.There are umpteen number of
vagheyakaras who,perhaps even did a better job than trinity.One good example
would be Papanasam Sivan's "Naan oru vilayattu bomaiya" in ragam navarasa-
kannada.None among the trinity did such a good job with this ragam as sivan.
Good keerthanais could be in any language and any body with real skill
could compose them.
( Sorry,no comments about thirupugazh,because I don't know much about it)
--Lakshminarayanan Ramakrishnan
R. Subramanian
>each line starts with the same word and rhymes that way.
What Sri. SRJ said is the definition of Andhadhi. Andham means End. Aadhi
means beginning/start. (Andhakan is the name of god Yama. The seventh
century Tamil statesman-turned-saint Manickavasagar describes Lord Shiva
as one who has no beginning and no end "Aadhiyum andhamum Illaa ... " in
Thiruppalliyezhuchi).
Andhadhi is a form of Tamil Poetry. There are a lot of poets who composed
Andhadhi's. Another famous Andhadhi is Abhirami Andhadhi of Abhirami Bhattar.
I have not heard of this kind of poetry in any other language.
Subramanian
Subbarayan Pasupathy
sr...@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Srini Pichumani) wrote
: T.V.Kuppuswami in his recent
:book "Carnatic Music and the Tamils" gives the probable dates
:as 1299 A.D. - the latter part of the 1300s.
The Sixth Birth Centenary of Saint Arunagirinathar was celebrated in 1975
throughout India, including the release of a Postage stamp.
2.
In Article: 11504 of rec.music.indian.classical
rsa...@emerald.tufts.edu (Ranjani Saigal) wrote:
" But he strongly feels that only a few Thirupugazhs can really
can be rendered beautifully. He feels that Sri Arunagirinadhar wrote most
of them as poetry and writing poetry and songs are very different issues.
While he does believe that it is nice that so many people are familiarizing
themselves with Thirupugazh, he feels that trying to constrain it to
fit the talams and Ragams really makes it very unaesthetic. He feels that the
complex rhythmic structure along with the words themselves which were not
composed with melody and harmony in mind make for really strange music".
There is enough evidence to suggest Tpugazh was composed with both tala and
raga in mind, though all the original tunes have disappeared over the years.
Arunagiri mentions singing in many of his works and also mentions many of
the ragas present in his time. Regarding tala, it comes naturally when one
sings the words and is in-built . Instead of leaving it as an anga thala ,
e.g., 2+1.5+3 , the artificiality comes in only when the chandam is
interpreted in terms of the more familiar talas .I have seen young kids
having no difficulty with such chandams. As for setting the Tpugazh in
new ragas, it depends on the creativity of the tuner; my personal opinion is
that new facets of a raga shine forth with great brilliance when applied to
compositions with different rhythmic structures. I have felt this when I have
listened to Tpugazh sung in some ragas like Dwijavandhi , Ranjani etc.
3.In Article: 11506 of rec.music.indian.classical
pj...@cs.cmu.edu (P J Narayanan) wrote,
"Such complicated tALams are best used only for poetry/lyrics that match
its structure. (In fact, I have it backwards; the tALam is "invented"
to match the lyrics). I would personally consider swaram/tani/kOrvais
set to such tALams closer to show-off."
As I have mentioned before, the talas were not "invented" for Tpugazh.
They are in-built. In fact, most ancient manuscripts contain the chanda
notation in the beginning of each song. If a mrdangam artist along with
the vocalist show off their mastery for a complex Ragam Tanam Pallavi or
for a Tpugazh , what is wrong ? I believe that it is the mastery of the
artists and their ability to translate it to musical pleasure for the
audience that results in an enjoyable concert. It would be a sad day if
artists confine themselves to 'safe and simple' ragas and talas only .
When Balamuralikrishna sang the 53th Melakartha raga in an unfamilar tala
on the occasion of the 53rd Music Academy Session, I enjoyed it thoroughly
and did not think of it as a show-off. Similarly when I heard Pazhani
Subramaniya Pillai do a Thani for a Tpugazh or when DKPattammal do a
swara for a Tpugazh.
S.Pasupathy
pas...@ecf.toronto.edu
Srikanth Gopalan
: Regarding J.Shivakumar's comment that Muthu should be ready to face the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: charge of being a tamizh fanatic and his observation that the trinity
: has done it all-
: --Lakshminarayanan Ramakrishnan
Lakshmi can you say sarcasm? That is what Shivakumar was attempting in his
post.
-Srikanth
Srini Pichumani
>
>Such complicated tALams are best used only for poetry/lyrics
>that match its structure. (In fact, I have it backwards; the
>tALam is "invented" to match the lyrics).
That is exactly why people refer to the tAlam for many
such Tiruppugazh verses as, simply, "chandas tALam",
instead of trying to fit it in the sUlAdi sapta tALa
system. This coinage arises from chandam (< Skt candas),
which is the basis for the metrical analysis of Tiruppugazh.
>M. D. Ramanathan showing off speed? Yes, that is what I am about to
>say. I have a recording of MDR singing Pallvi Gopala Iyer's
>"nIdumUrttini kanukoni" in nATTakkurunji at the pace of the Japanese
>Shinkansen Bullet Train! The words are mostly swallowed; so is the
>rAgam. I wouldn't have figured the rAgam out but for the lower tishram
>he does with the chiTTaswarams at the end!
His rendition of varNams - particularly in Abhogi and Mohanam,
jagadAnanda kAraka, etc are also pretty racy (pun intended!).
And his rendition of kritis like "palukavEmi nA daivamA" is
so stylized that one mostly hears a swoosh from start to end
i.e. no syllabic distinctions can be heard...
-Srini.
ps: In one of his books (I think "The Smile of Murugan"),
the Indologist Kamil Zvelebil has written very well about
the metrics of ArunagirinAdar's poetry wrt his ancient/
indigenous-to-Tamil nEr/niRai/acai based verse, and the
mAtra based verse, which is an increasingly medieval
phenomenon.
Balaji
A question I have always wanted to ask for
a long time now. Has the original music set for the
ancient tamil compositions survived until now.ie.,
has the music score itself been documented, or
is there a lineage of practising musicians who have
handed down the music over the generations and we
can say that the music has survived reasonably unchanged
over the past ? I think the music of the trinity, and
the composers who came later has largely survived
because their music was recorded by their disciples
and we can be reasonably assured that except for
subtle changes in padantra the music composed has
remained unchanged until today !!
In the case of Annamacharya, I have heard that the
original music for some songs of annamacharya has
survived because it was widely sung in the Tirupati
region and has been handed down over the generations.
It would be really interesting to know the original
music score for thEvAram, thiruppugazh and such other
old tamil poetic works because it would help us see
how music was interpreted in those days. For eg. has
the interpretation of sankarAbaranam or kambOji ragas
undergone major changes since then ? Some issues
like 'tamil music is not recognised', 'old tamil
composers are not recognised' etc could be addressed
when we take stock of the music ( not the lyrics )
that has survived until now. In summary were the
works like thEvAram, thiruppugazh and thiruvAsagam
set to music in those days ? ( I would say yes
considering the parable of thiruneelagandayAzhpAnar
and all that ) And if yes, has that music survived
until today ? Hope the nettors cud provide more
info on this issue. (srini ?)
balaji/...
P J Narayanan
Subbarayan Pasupathy <pas...@ecf.toronto.edu> wrote:
>3.In Article: 11506 of rec.music.indian.classical
> pj...@cs.cmu.edu (P J Narayanan) wrote,
>
>They are in-built. In fact, most ancient manuscripts contain the chanda
>notation in the beginning of each song.
Can you give more details on the chhanda notation? Can it be
considered to be an alternate tALa notation? Chhandas in sanskrit
poetry is the poetic metre, a precursor (in my limited knowledge) to
the more sophisticated vrttams. Does chhandas in the context of
tiruppukazh have some link to the musical rendition of the poetry or
is it also a poetic metre? Or am I distinguishing these two when no
distinction is called for?
>If a mrdangam artist along with
>the vocalist show off their mastery for a complex Ragam Tanam Pallavi or
>for a Tpugazh , what is wrong ?
Nothing is wrong. It was only my personal subjective opinion. I would
rather experience a "deep" exposition of a "safe" tALam/rAgam than a
mediocre exposition of a "complicated" one. "Deep" *and* "complicated"
would be nice, but....
mu...@cip.physik.uni-dortmund.de
: A question I have always wanted to ask for
: a long time now. Has the original music set for the
: ancient tamil compositions survived until now.ie.,
: has the music score itself been documented, or
: is there a lineage of practising musicians who have
: handed down the music over the generations and we
: can say that the music has survived reasonably unchanged
: over the past ?
Good points. As far as I know, there are only certain TEvarams whose
original PaNs are known and these can be heard from traditional
OdhuvArs in temples. Unfortunately, the number of such hymns is limited.
If I am allowed to, I'd hazard a guess that almost all "modern"
composers including the Trinity were influenced by the Tevarams they
must have heard. e.g. Tyagaraja's treatment of Harikhamboji, Shuddha
Saveri (esp Dharini .. which is close in musical content to "SiraiyAru
Mada KiLi.."). The number of OdhuvArs is dwindling and I, for one, am
concerned about this.
:I think the music of the trinity, and
: the composers who came later has largely survived
: because their music was recorded by their disciples
: and we can be reasonably assured that except for
: subtle changes in padantra the music composed has
: remained unchanged until today !!
Of course.
: It would be really interesting to know the original
: music score for thEvAram, thiruppugazh and such other
: old tamil poetic works because it would help us see
: how music was interpreted in those days. For eg. has
: the interpretation of sankarAbaranam or kambOji ragas
: undergone major changes since then ? Some issues
: like 'tamil music is not recognised', 'old tamil
: composers are not recognised' etc could be addressed
: when we take stock of the music ( not the lyrics )
: that has survived until now.
I think we are talking about two different issues now. I would draw a
line of distinction between Tamizh music (as in TEvAram) and the music
of Tamizh composers like G.Bharati, Ghanam Krishna Iyer, Anai-Aiyah,
Ramaswami Sivan, Muthu ThAndavar, MarimuthA Pillai and several others.
Many compositions of these people *are* available *with notation* and I
strongly feel that the Music community has not given them the treatment
they deserve. The losers are us, the listening public. Again I point out
this is unlike, say, TEvaram or Tiruppugazh where notated music is not
available. A good source of information regarding some of the composers
their lives and their music is U.VE.Saa's articles.
:In summary were the
: works like thEvAram, thiruppugazh and thiruvAsagam
: set to music in those days ? ( I would say yes
: considering the parable of thiruneelagandayAzhpAnar
: and all that ) And if yes, has that music survived
: until today ? Hope the nettors cud provide more
: info on this issue. (srini ?)
For nettors interested, let me mention some dates/places where TEvAram
and Tiruppugazh could be heard in Madras:
Jan 26 (every year): Chennamalleeswarar Koil, Madras. Day long
Tiruppugazh and TEvaram recitals.
The week of Aug 15 (every year): This was mentioned in an earlier
posting. Full scale Tiruppugazh/TEvAram concerts.
Kapaleeswarar Koil Brahmotsavam (every year): TEvAram/TiruvAchakam on
the streets when the God is taken around the MAda Streets. There are
several groups of OdhuvArs who come and sing.
Finally, let me add the foll. I saw on this net that Vidwan Sri Tanjavur
Shankara Iyer is scheduled to tour the US. He is an extremely
knowledgeable person re these matters and sings several TEvarams.
muthu
Ranganathan Srikanth
Balaji (xzm...@vssa.hqs.mid.gmeds.com) wrote:
: A question I have always wanted to ask for
: a long time now. Has the original music set for the
: ancient tamil compositions survived until now.ie.,
: has the music score itself been documented, or
: is there a lineage of practising musicians who have
: handed down the music over the generations and we
: can say that the music has survived reasonably unchanged
: over the past ?
>Good points. As far as I know, there are only certain TEvarams whose
>original PaNs are known and these can be heard from traditional
>OdhuvArs in temples. Unfortunately, the number of such hymns is limited.
>If I am allowed to, I'd hazard a guess that almost all "modern"
>composers including the Trinity were influenced by the Tevarams they
>must have heard. e.g. Tyagaraja's treatment of Harikhamboji, Shuddha
>Saveri (esp Dharini .. which is close in musical content to "SiraiyAru
>Mada KiLi.."). The number of OdhuvArs is dwindling and I, for one, am
>concerned about this.
The link between sundarar and dIkshitar was recently highlighted by
srini pichumani to me in an article that he read and in the
krithi (sundaramUrthim bajEham?) dIkshitar composed in his praise.
I wish srini writes on this for the benifit of public at large.
Recently Prof.T.Viswanathan presented a concert at ann arbor, MI.
He opened the concert with a tEvaram "kAdalAhi kasindu" in pan
kousikam which is very close to bhairavi. He told us that the
OduvArs sang the TEvaram in this pan. It was soul stirring
and majestic especially the opening phrase. The name kousikam
is not popular in carnatic music but occurs in hindustani genre
as an association koushikanada and so on. "Strong links!!!!" was
the way Prof.T.Viswa exclaimed.
The other superb tamizh operatic song he presented was "vazhimaraithirukudu"
in natakurinji by gopAlakrishna bArathi. This song is truly tear jerking
and so are all nandanAr charithiram songs of gopAlakrishna bArathi.
To hear such facets of carnatic music one must throng the concerts of
only a selected few. Not everyone has the training and the orientation
to present it in the right perspective.
srikanth
Sampath Srinivas
Could someone post a historical background of Arunagirinathar?
I vaguely remember hearing back in India that he was from Bengal and
then migrated South or something -- I may be completely off the wall
here.
Sampath
--
------- -------
Sampath Srinivas srin...@rpal.rockwell.com
Rockwell Science Center, Palo Alto Laboratory (415) 325-7174
P J Narayanan
<mu...@cip.physik.uni-dortmund.de> wrote:
>KAraNama thAki vandhu puvi meethE ..
>Therefore, the natural way to sing it, if not the "safe" way is
>KAraNama = 2.5 AksharAs
>thAki = 1.5 " "
>vandhu = 2 " "
>puvi = 1 AksharA
>meethE = 2 AksharAs
>making it in all 9 AksharAs. Obviously, there can be hundreds of such
>tAlas, some of them may fit into the 35 TAla scheme and most others
>would not.
I indeed find the rhythm of a tiruppugazh to be more "natural" many a
krti set to a "standard" tALam. However, the following question comes
to my mind: Is there a rule to these chhandas? Is there a reason
behind using 2.5 + 1.5 + 2 + 1 + 2 instead of some other numbers? (I
don't mean for the same song as the structure of the song gives these
unique numbers. But which kinds of structures are allowed for songs?).
I might seem too dry and theoretical here. It's true to an extent. I
certainly do not want to appear irreverent to tiruppukazh. I only want
to understand their structure in a broader context of historical
developments in rhythm and music. However, one of the hallmarks of
classical arts -- IMHO -- is that they reduce the scope of exposition
to a few (hopefully based on `good' aesthetic sense) among all the
possibilities using a few "rules", be it the notes and sanchArams of a
rAgam, the kinds of vrttams/rhymes used in poetry, whatever. The
artists are to show their creativity subject to these limitations.
Setting each song to a chhandas that is upto the musicians to create
(I am assuming they create it. Are they? That, I guess, is my
fundamental question) for it is -- IMHO -- going against this
thinking.
>Agreed that Adi TAlam lends more scope for the percussionist, but good
>percussionists love the challenge of being presented a complicated
>Pallavi or a Tiruppugazh.
>muthu
And I must concede an AditALam-only world will be very boring to me...
Subbarayan Pasupathy
I hope these answer some of the questions raised.
1. Prof.S.Ramanathan says in an article ..." the Thiruppugazh of Arunagiri
natha is considered as a fine example of Canta Pattu. ... Though the term
'cantam' might have originated from the Sanskrit 'candas', in practical use
it has very little in common with it, except that it denotes something
connected with prosody. The Sanskrit candas like Gayathri etc. denotes something very different. The Thiruppugazh song may be considered as belonging to one
of the nine types of musical compositions mentioned in the ancient Tamil
treatise on music, Panchamarapu. Sampatha virutham is one of the nine and
Thiruppugazh conforms to the definition of the same."
2. Prof.Ramanathan says further . "... Just as nErisai and niRaiyisai
constitute basic units in Tamil verse, eight kinds of canda kuzhippu like
thanana, thanna, thaththa, thaaththa, thayya provide the base in Thiruppugazh."
For example, the chanda kuzhippu for the popular song "kaiththala niRai kani.."
is " thaththana thanathana - thaththana thanathana -thaththana thanathana -
thana thaana ". Such chandhakkuzhippus can be used to decide the thala structure3. As pointed out before, many of the Thiruppugazh songs heard on
concert stage today owe their origin to Kaanchipuram NayanapiLLai.
He used both the 35 tala structure as well as the chanda tala. For
example, since the song " paniyin vindhuLi" has 17 akshara chandam, he
set it in Kandajaathi Druva. On the other hand, since "kaadhi mOdhi" has
10.5 aksharas, he set it as 1.5+1.5+2.5+2+3 following the chandakkuzhippu.
4. Arunagirinatha refers to ancient talas such as "chachchaputa,
chaachaputa" in one of his songs. He also mentions ragas such as
" varaaLi, sigandikai, seekaamaram, gowda bairavi, laLithai, malakari,
dhanaasi ...etc" in his songs. As Ramanathan mentions he could have used
ragas like indhaLam, bhairavi, bowli, dhanyasi , mentioned by himself in
Thiruppugazh .
5. Some Thiruppugazh songs also have a mixture of chandams in the same song!
S.Pasupathy
Ranganathan Srikanth
>The link between sundarar and dIkshitar was recently highlighted by
>srini pichumani to me in an article that he read and in the
>krithi (sundaramUrthim bajEham?) dIkshitar composed in his praise.
The krithi is sundaramUrthimAshrayE in raga takkA.
srikanth
Srinivasan Pichumani
wrote:
>
>KAraNama thAki vandhu puvi meethE ..
>Therefore, the natural way to sing it, if not the "safe" way is
>KAraNama = 2.5 AksharAs
>thAki = 1.5 " "
>vandhu = 2 " "
>puvi = 1 AksharA
>meethE = 2 AksharAs
>making it in all 9 AksharAs.
A small correction here. vandu should be 1.5 aksharas. The
tALam in which SRJ renders it is
taka-takita takita takita taka-dimi-taka
i.e. 2.5 + 1.5 + 1.5 + 3
-Srini.
M. V. Ramana
> Finally, let me add the foll. I saw on this net that Vidwan Sri Tanjavur
> Shankara Iyer is scheduled to tour the US. He is an extremely
> knowledgeable person re these matters and sings several TEvarams.
Does anyone know Tanjavur Sankara Iyer's schedule? Is he
just going to Cleveland and back? Any contact numbers?
Thanks,
Ramana
mu...@cip.physik.uni-dortmund.de
: In article <D6KJo...@ecf.toronto.edu>,
: Subbarayan Pasupathy <pas...@ecf.toronto.edu> wrote:
: >3.In Article: 11506 of rec.music.indian.classical
: > pj...@cs.cmu.edu (P J Narayanan) wrote,
: >
: >As I have mentioned before, the talas were not "invented" for Tpugazh.
: >They are in-built. In fact, most ancient manuscripts contain the chanda
: >notation in the beginning of each song.
: Can you give more details on the chhanda notation? Can it be
: considered to be an alternate tALa notation?
Let me give an example. Srini, in his post had mentioned the
Tiruppugazh, "KAraNamathAki..". Now if you sing one whole line of this
Tiruppugazh this would cover 9 AksharAs. So nominally, one can sing
this Tiruppugazh "safely" in Kanda JhAti TripudA TAla, do
swaraprastAram, play Tani etc. However, the way the lyris itself is
split is as follows:
KAraNama thAki vandhu puvi meethE ..
Therefore, the natural way to sing it, if not the "safe" way is
KAraNama = 2.5 AksharAs
thAki = 1.5 " "
vandhu = 2 " "
puvi = 1 AksharA
meethE = 2 AksharAs
making it in all 9 AksharAs. Obviously, there can be hundreds of such
tAlas, some of them may fit into the 35 TAla scheme and most others
would not. Handling these Tiruppugazhs, swara prastAram etc., requires
a good grasp of LayA and such an exposition is more than "just showing
off".
: >If a mrdangam artist along with
: >the vocalist show off their mastery for a complex Ragam Tanam Pallavi or
: >for a Tpugazh , what is wrong ?
: Nothing is wrong. It was only my personal subjective opinion. I would
: rather experience a "deep" exposition of a "safe" tALam/rAgam than a
: mediocre exposition of a "complicated" one. "Deep" *and* "complicated"
: would be nice, but....
Agreed that Adi TAlam lends more scope for the percussionist, but good
mu...@cip.physik.uni-dortmund.de
: In article <3m2vi5$1...@nx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de>, <mu...@cip.physik.uni-dortmund.de>
: wrote:
: >
: >KAraNama thAki vandhu puvi meethE ..
: >Therefore, the natural way to sing it, if not the "safe" way is
: >KAraNama = 2.5 AksharAs
: >thAki = 1.5 " "
: >vandhu = 2 " "
: >puvi = 1 AksharA
: >meethE = 2 AksharAs
: >making it in all 9 AksharAs.
: A small correction here. vandu should be 1.5 aksharas. The
: tALam in which SRJ renders it is
: taka-takita takita takita taka-dimi-taka
: i.e. 2.5 + 1.5 + 1.5 + 3
: -Srini.
Right. Sorry for the error.
muthu
mu...@cip.physik.uni-dortmund.de
: Srinivasan Pichumani (sr...@engin.umich.edu) wrote:
: : A small correction here. vandu should be 1.5 aksharas. The
: : tALam in which SRJ renders it is
: : taka-takita takita takita taka-dimi-taka
: : i.e. 2.5 + 1.5 + 1.5 + 3
: : -Srini.
: Right. Sorry for the error.
: muthu
---
The goof I made was to allot 2 aksharAs to a KuRil+kurRil. Should have
thought about the following Tiruppugazh that people sing nominally in
Adi tAlam but is actually
ApakAra = 2.5
Nindai = 1.5 (not 2 as I would have said earlier)
pat = 1
tuzhalAthe = 3
etc. (ApakAra nindai pattuzhalAthe..)
On a slightly different note, there is an interesting anectode recounted
by Ki. Vaa. Ja. about a retired police inspector-tamizh enthusiast who
came to U. VE.Saa. saying he had been reading Tiruppugazh for sometime
and in his opinion it should be banned...I forgot the details of the
story. Maybe somebody remembers.
muthu
Kathiravan Krishnamurthi
: Could someone post a historical background of Arunagirinathar?
: I vaguely remember hearing back in India that he was from Bengal and
: then migrated South or something -- I may be completely off the wall
: here.
: Sampath
Yes. Off the wall
aruNagiri naathar was born in a Gowda
community(In TN they are referred to
as a type of Goundars (oppiliya?))
that is spread across TN and
karnataka. He visited Andra
and met a Kavi in a telugu
kings court. This kavi introduced
him to some sanskrit.
I have a collection of
all his songs and urai that goes
with that. He has written a lot
of poems apart from thiruppugazh.
sEval viruththam, kanthar anthaathi,
kanthar an^upoothi to name a few.
Some of them are available in
casettes.
anban
Kathir
: --