Chandni Kedar
Geeta Iyer
Could someone explain the difference between Kedar and Chandni Kedar?
Thanks
geeta
Rakesh Chitradurga
In fact if pain is not taken to stress the difference, to the listener they would sound
the same. Chandni Kedar is a product of the pharsi period in hindusthani music.
Chandni is infact a pharsi word.
A major difference that should be stressed betwen chandni kedar
and kedar
is the use of the teevra madhyam. Teevra madhyam is used to a much
greater
extent in chandni kedar but not in kedar. Also the komal ni which is
used in kedar should not be used in chandni kedar. Some gharanas today
do use
the komal ni also which makes it even more difficult to distinguish
between
the two.
Rgds
Rakesh
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ahirbhairav
Differences exist in artistes and Gharanas regarding Kedar and Chandni
Kedar.
According to many Kedar does not have komal Nishad at all and does have
Tivra Madhyam: like- sa ma, ma ga pa Ma pa dha pa ma, pa dha pa pa sa^
dha ni sa^ re^ sa^ ni dha pa , ma pa dha pa ma, sa re sa.( suffix ^
means tar saptak and cap M stands for tivra madhyam).
In chandni Kedar the gruop Ma pa dha ni(komal) dha pa is taken as also
dha ni(komal) dha pa, Ma pa dha pa ma, sa re sa. This komal nishad
adds beauty and softness to the raga especially when sung softly. In
reality it would be nice if one could treat both the ragas as one as
other characteristics remain the same. THere is a Chandni Kedar record
by Vilayat Khan playing the Sitar, which is quite nice.
Satish Shah
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Rajan P. Parrikar
Rakesh Chitradurga <Rakesh.Ch...@sdrc.com> writes:
>Chandni Kedar is very similar to Kedar.
>In fact if pain is not taken to stress the difference, to the listener
>they would sound
>the same. Chandni Kedar is a product of the pharsi period in hindusthani
>music.
>Chandni is infact a pharsi word.
>
>A major difference that should be stressed betwen chandni kedar and
>kedar
>is the use of the teevra madhyam. Teevra madhyam is used to a much
>greater
>extent in chandni kedar but not in kedar. Also the komal ni which is
>used in kedar should not be used in chandni kedar. Some gharanas today
>do use
>the komal ni also which makes it even more difficult to distinguish
>between
>the two.
I have no disagreement with the substance of the above. Chandni
Kedar means different things to different people. In Kedar proper
the komal nishAd is vivAdi and is not deemed necessary. In his
treatise "Hindustani Sangeet Paddhati," Bhatkhande provides a small
discussion on Chandni Kedar, the gist of which is that it (C-Kedar)
is obtained by perturbing the standard Kedar in different ways,
most notably by introduction of the komal nishAd. Another
perturbation comes from a stronger presence and Andolans of and
around the tivra madhyam. At variance with Bhatkhande on the
first point is Vinayakrao Patwardhan who states that it is the exile
of komal nishAd in Kedar that leads to C-Kedar. Further complicating
the melange of varying opinion is divergent practice.
There are several commercial recordings of Chandni Kedar of which
I recall ones by Basavraj Rajguru, Amir Khan, some Imdadkhani punter,
Vijay Raghav Rao and an old one by Abdul Halim Jaffer Khan. There
is a relatively new offereing by Shruti Sadolikar.
Based on treacherous memory are the following observations of
the renditions I mildly remember:
Basavraj Rajguru does use the komal nishAd; perhaps in his
real Kedar he doesn't. I do not remember any concentration
around the tivra madhyam but will not push this since it
has been along time.
Amir Khan has much more use for the komal nishAd than is
considered necessary in Kedar. Furthermore, there is also
an idiosyncratic use of the shuddha gandhAr with the ustAd
sometimes intoning the sargam as (GGmP where m=tivra madhyam).
In both of the above I thought the kedAric meenD (mPD...M) was
de-emphasized but that could just be my imagination. The thing
is, unless we can have the same artist sing Kedar and C-Kedar,
no definite pronouncement can be made, because one man's Kedar
is the other fella's Chandni.
Shruti Sadolikar does not use the komal nishAd in her Chandni.
But then, the Jaipur fellas drop that note in their standard
Kedar as well. So we have to look for some other perturbation
here. A good idea would be to listen to Ashwini Bhide's Kedar
and then Sadolikar's C-Kedar - I haven't gotten round to it
yet. The Jaipur Kedar has a stronger presence of the shuddha
nishAd (via P NN) which if I recall is absent in Sadolikar.
Instead there is a frequent S to D coupling. The strength
and curvature of the meenD might also be a thing yo watch for.
Bhide's Kedar also, IIRC, had a noticeable GM GM lead to
the madhyam; perhaps Sadolikar eschews this. Also, we
can't strengthen the nishAd to such an extent that it begins
to sound like Shuddha Kedar (see Bhimsen Joshi, for instance).
And so on.
In sum, there is no need for Chandni Kedar's existence. But
having it around gives one the illusion of knowing and singing
a "rare" and "complex" rAga.
Warm regards,
r
ar...@my-dejanews.com
geeta...@mindspring.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Could someone explain the difference between Kedar and Chandni Kedar?
>
> Thanks
>
> geeta
>
In our gharana, Kedar is played as:
(arohana) S (OR, S R S) M G P m D P S'
(avarohana) S' (N)D P m P D M - (M)R S
There are some pakad phrases which you hear very commonly. Many Ustads use a
komal nishaad in Kedar (specially in the challan mm P-P Dn-nD P -mDP M). Or
as m P D-P S'-S' D n D P m P D-(P) M... ) The komal nishaad is sparingly used
in Chandni Kedar (a relatively recent raga) and strictly in conjuction with
some typical Kedar phrases while D n D to them!). Here, I would like to say
that the differences among the types of kedar are really interesting.
Interestingly, Guruji had played a kedar-ke-prakar concert in Bombay which
had featured Kedar, Shuddha Kedar, Jaladhar Kedar, Malhua Kedar and
Kedar-Nat.
Warren, can you tell me your interpretation of Malhua Kedar? I have not heard
you sing that, but today, there are some modern "gharanedar" Ustads making
mincemeat of it. I know that the Kirana Gharana (Gangubai and Karim Khan
Saheb) had a very special interpretation of it and it is mot sung much by
Jaipurites... but I heard Kumarji sing it once and I could ask for no more.
Guruji has also played a Malhua Kedar on a Calcutta concert with Sanjoy Kumar
Mukherjee on tabla. I am eager to hear your responses.
Regards,
Arnab
--
Arnab :)
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Sajjad Khaliq
: THere is a Chandni Kedar record
: by Vilayat Khan playing the Sitar, which is quite nice.
: Satish Shah
Which LP is that? I am aware and have an LP by Ustad Vilayat Khan and
Ustad Imrat Khan (surbahar) playing Chandni Kedar called "Night at the
Taj".
--
Sajjad Khaliq / Hamilton / Ontario / Canada
Rajan P. Parrikar
is a relatively new offering by Shruti Sadolikar.
Ashok
>
>In article <365C9B84...@sdrc.com>
>Rakesh Chitradurga <Rakesh.Ch...@sdrc.com> writes:
>
>>Chandni Kedar is very similar to Kedar.
>>In fact if pain is not taken to stress the difference, to the listener
>>they would sound
>>the same. Chandni Kedar is a product of the pharsi period in hindusthani
>>music.
>>Chandni is infact a pharsi word.
>>
>
>
>r
I don't know what is meant by pharsi period in Hindustani music, but
I have serious reservations about the statement that "chandni" is
a pharsi (Farsi?) word. Given the ancient relation between Sankrit
and Persian, I wouldn't be surprised if Persian has a similar word
for moonlight, but the word "chandni" comes from "chaand", which in
turn comes from "chandra".
Ashok