Here we go again: Amjad Ali Bashing in full swing
Sabyasachi
I thought I'd write this post after finding an yet another article
ridiculing Ustad Amjad Ali Khan (let me declare that I have a personal
bias at play here - but more on that later).
As we are all aware, Hindustani music is immersed in sycophancy and
pseudo-spiritual marketing material (usually intended for overseas
audiences), over-the-hill maestros promoting their progeny etc, so it
was a breath of fresh air to find a group of ICM music lovers on
various fora/newsgroups who did not conform to this tradition and
instead were willing to debate and share their thoughts in a candid
manner.
However, I've observed that over the last few years, this group has
gradually degenerated into precisely the same kind of conduct that
infuriated them about the ICM scene : rabid criticism, "my opinion is
better than yours", name calling (bad language in some cases),
focussing on non-musical aspects of prominent musicians (Ud Amjad AK
and Pt Jasraj seem to be favourite whipping boys - however, I was
surprised to see that even Shahid Parvez dragged in from time to
time), running contests to spot the most besura musical video on
Youtube etc. It's almost a contest to come up with the most witty
insult to anything that a popular CM musician does or says. This
internet "bhadralok" is now indulging in exactly the same kind of
behaviour they hated in the first place !
In Australian vernacular, this behaviour of constant complaints and
criticism is called "whinging".
My appeal is to stop this behaviour. We all accept that musical
opinion is a matter of personal taste. There is much to be discussed
and shared without being negative about people. Musicians are no
different to people in the corporate/academic world - they've got to
earn a living. Let's not expect saintly behaviour from them. The
behaviour we are accusing them of is commonplace in every profession -
some of us may be guilty of exactly the same kind of self-promotion
ourselves.
Let us acknowledge the body of work from leading musicians of our time
without running them down - let's separate the person from the music.
Now back to my favourite topic - Ustad Amjad Ali Khan. I notice the
hypocrisy of some internet posters who privately acknowledge the huge
body of work that he has produced but flay him in their posts. In
fact, some of these sarod players, including his students, actually
copy his work but criticise him in pubic !. For long time lovers of
the sarod, his recordings from the 60s to the late early 80s contain
masterpieces. Darbari, Mian Malhar, Bihag, Sughrai Kanada, Hamsadhwani
etc.Everyone who has ever attempted to play the sarod can only marvel
at his technical mastery of the instrument. Lay listeners enjoy his
lyrical style - he has made the sarod popular with his simple and
elegant compositions. As a vocalist who came to the sarod in my late
teens and had the good fortune of spending time with him, I can
assure you that that what you see in public is less than one percent
of his musical repertoire. I wish that more of this vast treasure was
performed in public or at least transmitted to a deserving student,
but I'm in no doubt that even the body of work publicly available sets
him head and shoulders above most sarodiyas of his generation. It
saddens me that his genius has largely gone unrecognised - caught up
in the incessant carping of inferior (and jealous) musicians and their
fan clubs.
The fact remains that to maintain a career of 40+ years, to come up at
a time when Ustad Ali Akbar Khan reigned supreme, when the whole
corporate sponsorship thing did not exist, one has to be reasonably
competent. The fact that he is not the most articulate blogger (he is
most comfortabe in Old Delhi Urdu laced Hindi, by the way) and to
criticise his thoughts on Ustad Amir Khan (who he reveres greatly) is
just another round in this cruel bashing game that some of us indulge
in.
I know I'll be flamed (expect some really witty insults and rebuttals
here), but I'll appeal to our sense of fairness and love of the art
form - let's not waste time and degrade ourselves in talking down
musicians - we're mature enough to understand how performing arts work
and separate the music from the person.
Best Regards
Sabyasachi(Rahul) Bhattacharya
Sabyasachi
Imnot Apadmashri
eloquent.
Pardon me for my lack of wit, but what exactly is your point? We
already know that AA is, as you yourself put it, "reasonably
competent", and that one would be a fool to "expect saintly behaviour"
from him. So what else is new?
Incidentally, if you want to know exactly how far from saintly your
hero is, talk to his disciples who are still in India. Ask them how
he has treated them vis-a-vis his Two Muskesteers.
DG
C Parthapratim
wrote:
@Sabyasachi: kichhu lyaj kokhono soja hoy na. Find yourself something
meaningful to do.
Vishwaroopa Sharma
> assure you that that what you see in public is less than one percent
> of his musical repertoire.
OMG! Life is so so compassionate at times, you see!
> I wish that more of this vast treasure was
> performed in public or at least transmitted to a deserving student,
> but I'm in no doubt that even the body of work publicly available sets
> him head and shoulders above most sarodiyas of his generation.
Oh! I see.... It seems we can in no way understand why is 'head' "n"
'shoulders' above..... BTW, ain't you talking about the shampoo?
> The fact that he is not the most articulate blogger (he is
> most comfortabe in Old Delhi Urdu laced Hindi, by the way) and to
> criticise his thoughts on Ustad Amir Khan (who he reveres greatly) is
> just another round in this cruel bashing game that some of us indulge
> in.
Whether AmAK is a prolific writer is not a point here. Read DG's
reply. It is clearer.
By the way, read the last post of this:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.indian.classical/browse_thread/thread/c4cf10ba5be97e6b/c5e2d0002276ddc6?pli=1
Warrenbua has made it explicitly brilliant. Your boss also fits in the
same category. More on his prowess could be shared by some serious
sarodia.
Have a nice day.
~
VS
Havanur
> > I can
> > assure you that that what you see in public is less than one percent
> > of his musical repertoire.
>
> OMG! Life is so so compassionate at times, you see!
Sarcasm aside, The Disciple has unwittingly put his finger on the nub.
AmAK has been playing the same <1% repertoire for years concert after
concert. And further,
> I wish that more of this vast treasure was
> performed in public or at least transmitted to a deserving student,
Isn't he doing a disservice to music by not doing either?
As for his blogging, the derision is not aimed at his style but
content which varies from immature to self serving. Does he really
have to announce to the world that Diana preferred his shawl to
somebody else's jacket?
Havanur
vinay pande
okay-- a simple qn for sabyasachi ( and others)--
when was the last time you heard a pleasant ( leave aside memorable)
amjad ali khan concert or one in which the amplification was not set
at an absolutely deafening level?
i think i have to go back to the early 80's.
no, a correction, probably the 70's...
how can someone with so much expertise display such contempt for his
audience? it is depressing...
btw i could say the same for n rajam's violin recitals.
it is truly tragic to see people with such enormous ability perform so
far below potential.
vinay
srutibox
Bhattacharya that it would be preferable to use this internet forum
to discuss music and to a certain extent, also information about
musicians (such as announcing upcoming concerts or the death of a well-
known artist), but NOT for personal commentaries on musicians.
As someone who does not post but reads inputs avidly on this forum, I
must say I do enjoy reading analyses and appreciations of certain
pieces, or of course getting links to downloads, or conversations
about ragas and historical details. I do not at all enjoy reading
about how much someone dislikes a musician or his writings, even if I
myself don't like that musician myself very much. I don't want to stop
those who enjoy the gossip, for I can understand this maybe an
occasional need. But perhaps we should have a separate
"rec.music.indian.classical.stardust" group for such things? I would
be happy to not join that group.
Sruti Bala
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
I have not heard any recent recitals of Dr. N Rajam, but I am curious
as to your rationale for such an assessment (is it just the
amplification part, or the contempt part) and how widely shared such
an opinion is.
Sanjeev
Abhay
I heard Dr N Rajam (along with Sangeeta Shankar) play at Kalakshetra
(Chennai) at the end of December 2009. She played beautifully, and the
volume levels were perfect for the auditorium. I have heard her play
live a couple of times earlier many years ago: then, too, I don't
remember any problems with amplification levels.
I cannot stand high decibel levels and have therefore stopped
attending light music concerts. Some classical music concerts too
suffer from this malady, but not too often. Instrumentalists seem to
be particularly keen on ear-splitting amplification; I don't remember
any vocal concerts where this problem has come up.
Warm regards,
Abhay
Imnot Apadmashri
high decibel list
> btw i could say the same for n rajam's violin recitals.
Like several others I was surprised to see Dr ajam's name in that
context. May I ask you, Vinay, who the tabla player was on the
occasion?
DG
Havanur
> I agree with the participant of this group Sabyasachi(Rahul)
> those who enjoy the gossip, for I can understand this maybe an
> occasional need.
Shri Savyasachi's message was posted in response to the thread
"Another Story". Can you point out what you consider as "gossip" by
anybody in that thread? As far as I can see everyone has commented on
what Amjad Ali Khan has said or written about himself and his music.
Or do you think that this newsgroup should limit itself to concert
announcements and tour details of the Ustad and his sons?
> But perhaps we should have a separate
> "rec.music.indian.classical.stardust" group for such things? I would
> be happy to not join that group.
> Sruti Bala
RMIC is a free unmoderated group. AFAIK no one has ever been invited
to join it. So I guess it is not necessary for anyone leaving it to
make a public announcement either.
Havanur
Nishant Sharma
Your detailed and painstakingly created post merits similarly detailed
treatment. I have, therefore, taken the liberty of quoting your text
in pieces and responding to these in the context in which they were
written.
On Feb 14, 6:19 pm, Sabyasachi <darbari2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As we are all aware, Hindustani music is immersed in sycophancy and
> pseudo-spiritual marketing material (usually intended for overseas
> audiences), over-the-hill maestros promoting their progeny etc,
Couldn't agree more with you on this. Just that Amjad Ali is equally
guilty as or more so than any of the other maestros, both in pseudo-
spiritual marketing and promoting his most mediocre progeny. It is
true that the boys have improved a lot in terms of accuracy in the
past many years, but their total lack of sensitivity to the raga,
incessant leather-beating and the resulting cacophony makes them, at
least in my view, less interesting musicians than several other sarod
players of their generation.
> was a breath of fresh air to find a group of ICM music lovers on
> various fora/newsgroups who did not conform to this tradition and
> instead were willing to debate and share their thoughts in a candid
> manner.
You are right again. Candid sharing of thoughts is exactly what this
newsgroup is all about, barring the occasional concert announcements
and amusing pieces of self-promotion by the Naqi Alis and Parthapratim
Chakravortys of the world. The problem with most of us is that we
happily accuse others of hypocrisy while we engage in the exact same
behaviour ourselves. Candidness is fine as long as it does not amount
to criticism, however valid, of our own heroes.
> focussing on non-musical aspects of prominent musicians (Ud Amjad AK
> and Pt Jasraj seem to be favourite whipping boys - however, I was
> surprised to see that even Shahid Parvez dragged in from time to
> time),
Amjad Ali and Jasraj have justly earned their "whipping boy" status,
for not only as you rightly state of the former, have they lowered
their own standards of performance and repertoire to abysmal levels,
their forays into the pseudo-intellectual realm (Jasraj by way of his
fictitious peace missions to Baathist Iraq and Amjad through his
"mastero's (sic) column") are an embarrassment to every self-
respecting member of the ICM community. That these two have become the
favourite whipping boys on this newsgroup, is perhaps also
attributable to the fact that they have been dishonest with their art.
They have both reached great heights in playing to the gallery, and
both are known by community insiders to be Machiavellian in their
dealings.
> In Australian vernacular, this behaviour of constant complaints and
> criticism is called "whinging".
"Whinging" is by no means an Aussie preserve. I quote a less-than-
Australian (erstwhile?) member of the RMIC community:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.indian.classical/browse_thread/thread/1f0a146badfd5df4/53d1b5aa9b1493b4?lnk=gst&q=whinging#53d1b5aa9b1493b4
> My appeal is to stop this behaviour. We all accept that musical
> opinion is a matter of personal taste. There is much to be discussed
> and shared without being negative about people. Musicians are no
> different to people in the corporate/academic world - they've got to
> earn a living. Let's not expect saintly behaviour from them. The
> behaviour we are accusing them of is commonplace in every profession -
> some of us may be guilty of exactly the same kind of self-promotion
> ourselves.
Do you mean to say that as far as music is concerned, professionalism
requires a musician to pretend that it is not a profession? Other
professions like architecture demand a certain level of professional
integrity. When you start calling your profession an art, you need
adhere to much higher levels of integrity. Art demands aesthetic
integrity. Spiritualism demands a much higher level of integrity. Are
you trying to say that musicians can get away spouting all sorts of
bullshit just because they need to make a living? It is indeed sad if
these peddlers of so-called spirituality and higher aesthetics take to
whinging about their financial needs when their double-standards are
called into question.
> Now back to my favourite topic - Ustad Amjad Ali Khan. I notice the
> hypocrisy of some internet posters who privately acknowledge the huge
> body of work that he has produced but flay him in their posts. In
> fact, some of these sarod players, including his students, actually
> copy his work but criticise him in pubic !. For long time lovers of
> the sarod, his recordings from the 60s to the late early 80s contain
> masterpieces. Darbari, Mian Malhar, Bihag, Sughrai Kanada, Hamsadhwani
> etc.Everyone who has ever attempted to play the sarod can only marvel
> at his technical mastery of the instrument.
I agree with you that Amjad Ali Khan reached a level of speed,
accuracy and clarity in his taans that very few other sarod players
have managed to attain. The couple of players who did get there or
farther, were either non-professionals or were destroyed by Amjad.
Certain aspects of his technique, particularly his control on dir-dir
bols of the right hand, however, remain unchallenged. But is this
enough to call him a great musician in the context of HCM? I think
not. I think good technique makes one a good operator of the machine
on which one undertakes to create music. This is indeed a great start,
and Amjad Ali had a great start by the age of twenty, but in spite of
a ten-year period when he showed serious promise of attaining
something worthwhile (1966-76), I would, by and large, call him a
great disappointment. A highly talented craftsman who lacks the
aesthetic sensibility to create anything new outside of his perceived
domain of excellence (read Vilayat Khan, Bade Ghulam Ali and to a very
limited extent, Amir Khan). Even so, I have enjoyed Amjad Ali's
virtuosity on his chosen medium immensely, before he went totally
crazy with self-adulation.
>Lay listeners enjoy his
> lyrical style - he has made the sarod popular with his simple and
> elegant compositions. As a vocalist who came to the sarod in my late
> teens and had the good fortune of spending time with him, I can
> assure you that that what you see in public is less than one percent
> of his musical repertoire. I wish that more of this vast treasure was
> performed in public or at least transmitted to a deserving student,
> but I'm in no doubt that even the body of work publicly available sets
> him head and shoulders above most sarodiyas of his generation. It
> saddens me that his genius has largely gone unrecognised - caught up
> in the incessant carping of inferior (and jealous) musicians and their
> fan clubs.
He has indeed made the sarod popular, and from a commercial
perspective, perhaps, other sarod players ought to thank Amjad for
this. But the larger question is something else. Is the popularity
gained worth the rigour lost? Again, I think not. Amjad Ali Khan's
style has evolved, at two different points in time, in two different
directions. The early recordings reveal him attempting elegant
approximations of Vilayat Khan's sitar music to the extent possible
without taking too many risks. Every taan has been practiced,
perfected and polished to a great extent, and the impact of their
rendering on a lay listener is great. The construction of these taans
and the underlying vision of the raga, of course, aren't very much to
write home about. Even so, given his sweet, accurate intonation and
dazzling speed, these recordings are admissible as good listening
material in their own right, although in no way to be considered
imaginative pieces of raga music. And the less said about Amjad's own
raga creations, the better. Of them, Lalitadhwani, the only
intelligently constructed melody, is plagiarized from a late flautist.
The second stage of Amjad Ali's evolution is indeed a sad development.
It is marked by the same lack of raga aesthetics as the first, but
brought down many notches by his urge to break away from the Vilayat
Khan idiom towards "tantrakari", which results largely in leather-
beating, string-jangling jhalas every ten minutes, and high decibel
noise overall.
Here's a recording from AmAK's transition phase (1983), where one can
still see glimpses of his sound technique. This is allegedly Gujri
Todi, but the aochar and general treatment comes across as Miyan Ki
Todi minus the pancham, which is a whole different animal. The gat is
said by a knowledgeable senior sarodiya to be a creation of Hafiz Ali
Khan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJn9RwuQsk4
Now for an example of the kind of musical nonsense he currently dishes
out, at exponentially higher fees than the Rs. 8,000 he commanded in
1983.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGEbT5L0QFI
Jingle Bells with Bhajni Theka
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnN7BL1PInc
Maru Bihag in 12 1/2 beats. Back to my question, where is the raga?
Unless you define a raga by ascending and descending scales only.
I am very curious to know which jealous and inferior musicians' fan
clubs you are referring to. As far as I can tell, the only two other
sarod players with dedicated fan clubs of any size are Ali Akbar Khan,
and to a much lesser extent, Buddhadeb Dasgupta. Ali Akbar's
spellbinding mastery of music is something you yourself have
acknowledged, and to be fair to Buddhadeb, he was no mean sarodiya in
his day. In my considered opinion, Ali Akbar Khan, even in death,
reigns supreme. Although his baldness would not have made him a great
brand ambassador for Head and Shoulders (or even Manyavar, for that
matter), AAK (1922-2009) remains to me, with all his flaws and
inconsistencies miles and miles ahead of the likes of Amjad and
Buddhadeb. And before you begin to raise a hue and cry about Amjad's
superior technique, here's a video clip of Ali Akbar in his heyday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIBtkRjhfCs
> The fact remains that to maintain a career of 40+ years, to come up at
> a time when Ustad Ali Akbar Khan reigned supreme, when the whole
> corporate sponsorship thing did not exist, one has to be reasonably
> competent. The fact that he is not the most articulate blogger (he is
> most comfortabe in Old Delhi Urdu laced Hindi, by the way) and to
> criticise his thoughts on Ustad Amir Khan (who he reveres greatly) is
> just another round in this cruel bashing game that some of us indulge
> in.
Correction. He has never lived in Old Delhi for any significant length
of time. He moved from Gwalior to Nizamuddin, from there to Defense
Colony, then GK-I and then to Panchsheel Park, where he now lives. A
classic example of Mr. Khan's Urdu is as follows. "Har saal,
Shankarlal Festival ke organizers se invitation ke liye hum look
faarward karte hain, jo ke Bharat ka ek bahut important music festival
hai". (Quoting him verbatim here, as I was present at this concert.)
> I know I'll be flamed (expect some really witty insults and rebuttals
> here), but I'll appeal to our sense of fairness and love of the art
> form - let's not waste time and degrade ourselves in talking down
> musicians - we're mature enough to understand how performing arts work
> and separate the music from the person.
Of course, as you have yourself put it so eloquently, this forum is
indeed all about candid discussion of musical and allied issues. I
hope you don't take my observations as personal attacks. Given a few
past instances in which I have triggered bouts of outrage from
observers, I have attempted to keep my tone as civil and nonpartisan
as possible.
We sign off with an example of the endearing (if not enduring)
contribution of Janaabs Amaan Ali and Ayaan Ali Khan to Indian
culture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzU096qVOfM
Regards,
Nishant
C Parthapratim
wrote:
>
> read more »
For the first time, AFAIK, this man has written something meaningful
(barring the personal attacks :) which I don't mind at all).
Sabyasachi
> On Feb 18, 2:37 pm, Nishant Sharma <nishant.architect...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
Thank you for your response. My thoughts are as below:
1. I am not questioning your interpretation or perception of Ustad
AmAK's music - music is ultimately a matter of individual preference.
At the most, I can try to explain my perspective.
2. It is interesting that most of the respondents to my post skipped
the first part (you did not) and went straight to the musician
concerned.The point of my post was simply that I could not see the
value (musical or otherwise) of dragging up every utterance or website
post of Ud AmAK and then trashing it. I wondered as to the motivation
of those who did this with vigilante like fervour. Did they really
enjoy doing this? What were they hoping to achieve? Demonstrate their
sense of satire? Shame Ud AmAK into performing better? In particular,
cheering or ridiculing the news of his sarod getting damaged is in
poor taste, especially coming after another post I read where someone
was using four letter words to describe Ud AmAK. In short, I felt that
these very folks, who cry about decaying standards of music, were no
different themselves, given their tabloid style posts. They have no
right to feel superior to the mass consumer of classical music who
goes to a concert so that they can brag about it to their friends the
next day.
3. Re: whipping boy - irrespective of how we feel about someone's
music, we should not degenerate into a hate-group. We can vote with
our feet and wallets if we don't like their music. Dredging up every
news item on them accompanied by an insult is not very professional in
my opinion.
Re: Machiavellian techniques (also in response to DG's post), I used
to be a community insider during my time there, so am very familiar
with what goes on. And, as we all know, these conditions are
universal. I am now part of the Australian niche market for ICM, and I
can tell you that it's no different here. Still, not enough reason to
personally attack someone or complain endlessly at what they post on
their website. There is a line between humour and hate.
4. Re: sarod playing style - as a student of the instrument, I will
highight a different perspective. You see, given the rabab pedigree of
the instrument, most sarodiyas are trained in dara-diri (the right
hand bols). Eventually they become obsessed with it, and refuse to
consider any other technique. As a sarodiya, you are told endlessly
about the virtues of dara-diri, to the exclusion of everything else.
If you regard the sarod as a "black box" and compare it to the ability
of the sitar or sarangi to execute a vocal repertoire, it falls
woefully short. I am obsessively biased in favour of vocal based music
on the sarod and in that space, the only musician to have done any
serious work in coming up with a modified technique is Ud Amjad AK.
Essentially, I see him as having started a parallel gayaki ang on the
sarod, but not finishing it off. There could be a number of reasons
for this - that's beyond the scope of this post.
On the aesthetic point of view - again, it's a matter of preference.
Simple and elegant playing necessarily does not mean inferior. I see
Ud AmAK style as someone painting with a broad brush - few strokes,
less notes per stroke, getting to the note immediately - very direct.
Other sarodiyas are painting with smaller brushes - more strokes, more
notes per stroke, more "artwork" per phrase (squeezing out intricate
patterns) etc. I also feel that the greatest imaginative pieces of
raga music have already been developed in the vocal system - if we can
even get close to this treasure trove as sarodiyas, I will be content.
Ud AmAK, with his Ud VK approximations, at least tried. Note: you seem
to think that he took minimal risk with VK approximations - I can tell
you that he was taking very great risks in even attempting these -
This is also the reason why none of his disciples even attempt what he
was trying to do in that era, and over time, it was easier for him to
go back to the older "dara diri" bashing style, which is very safe.
Aesthetic sense and technique come together to form the musician's
offer. In my opinion, technique (especially gayaki ang) is a pre-
requisite, which explains my preference of Ud AmAK's sarod style. Re:
aesthetic capability - I can see your point about expecting superior
aesthetics from competent technicians. If anyone was well poised to
bring his tremendous technical ability to the task, it was him. My
disappointment is that the current crop are not doing too well either-
most can't even get the wholesome, complete sound out of their sarods
that Ud AmAK and Ud Ali AK were able to produce.
5. Re: his language skills - let's not argue over this - this is
hardly a point worth debating.
6. Re: every taan having been perfected -my 2 cents - this is simply
the musician's personality. You can have impromptu playing like Ud Ali
AK, or the careful, methodical framework based approach that Ud AmAK
employs. The entire performance is mapped out in detail and delivered
as per plan.
cheers
Sabyasachi
Balwant Dixit
decisively and intellligently. Great job! I am not a trained musician but I
have listened to ICM since 1949 and during that time I was lucky to hear
live performances and live recordings of musical performances of almost all
musicians. My recollection of sarod players is that I thought AKK was the
best one I heard in solo and in jugalbandi performmances, Hafiz Ali Khan
(Amjad's father) whom I only heard a couple of times, was a very serious and
an accomplished sarod player. The other sarod players I enjoyed listening
was Radhika Mohan Maitra. I have known Buddhadeb Dasgupta for the past 20
yrs or so and have heard him several times live, but I consider him a more
of a scholar than a captivating performer. I do want to say that I enjoyed
Amjad Ali Khan's sarod very much in 60s and early 70s.
..................BND
"Nishant Sharma" <nishant.ar...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:430f2d64-d6b1-4e5f...@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
Vishwaroopa Sharma
>
> read more »
Bravo!!!
~
VS
Siddhartha Chaudhuri
Thanks for your detailed posts. I find it surprising that you ascribe
the increased "vocalism" in sarod technique solely to Amjad Ali Khan.
Modifications to the sarod in the late 19th-early 20th century
resulted in significantly increased sustain, and the use of fewer
right hand strokes and increased left hand work for long meends and
gamaks was already well present in the technique of Ali Akbar Khan
and, to a lesser extent, Radhika Mohan Maitra (whose sarod was less
"modern", afaik).
These artists moved sarod technique _away_ from the strictly rababi
style (e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKDBo4mFskI ), and at the
time Amjad Ali Khan was a young boy they had already developed the
increased "gayaki ang" (a most abused term) to a great extent. Indeed,
I would argue that Amjad Ali's playing is _more_ traditional than Ali
Akbar's is.
Admittedly, these particular musicians played fewer fast ekhara tans,
something that Amjad Ali Khan is indeed fond of doing, and does so
with great speed and clarity. But ekhara tans cannot be said to be the
only component of vocal music! (I will avoid the minefield of
discussing whether they are even aesthetically appropriate as played
by their current sarod exponents.) Vilayat Khan's "gayaki ang" was not
predicated on this either (rather on exceptionally expressive meend
work), though he had phenomenal speed and control over such tans.
For illustration, here's Ali Akbar Khan playing Faiyyaz Khan's famous
dadra "banAo batiyAn" (w. Zakir Hussain). This is, I think, from 1987,
but the exceptional left hand work was already present much earlier.
http://soundcloud.com/sidch/ali-akbar-khan-bhairavi
Can you honestly call this less "vocal" (or indeed, more "busy") than
anything Amjad Ali has ever played? Yes, Ali Akbar did not play like
this always -- indeed, he frequently indulged in complex right hand
indulgences which follow the pattern you describe. However, to assert
Amjad Ali Khan was somehow solely responsible for introducing "gayaki
ang" (whatever that means) to sarod technique is misleading.
And that's ignoring the considerably more relevant aspect of musical
depth.
S
vinay pande
>
> - Show quoted text -
my comment about deafeningly high decibel levels was directed at amjad
ali khan, not n rajam. i heard her recently--its like listening to an
LP, over and over again. the same stock phrases, the same vrituoso
passages,the same unpleasant sawing of the violin towards the middle
of the concert. as if she has learnt the concert by rote.but
definitely far more pleasant to listen to than amjad ali.
but that, unfortunately, is not saying much...
vinay
Sabyasachi
1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Sabyasachi,
>
> Thanks for your detailed posts. I find it surprising that you ascribe
> the increased "vocalism" in sarod technique solely to Amjad Ali Khan.
>
Good to get your point of view - should probably start a new thread,
as we are now well and truly off topic (AmAK bashing).
Re who is responsible for "vocalisation" of the sarod, I accept your
point. I'm no musicologist - so, am happy to stand corrected. I also
agree that "gayaki ang" is a subjective term. I apply the following
minimum criteria: 1. The gat has to be traceable to a vocal
composition (at least in madhyalaya and drut, as vilambit often has
the ektaal/tilwada/jhoomra vs teental problem) and 2. The development
of the sthayi and antara must follow vocal convention. For example, in
the antara of a drut khayal, it is common to have a build up to the
upper Sa in the first line - the same must be visible in the
instrumental bandish. I don't consider ekhara taans as symbolic of
vocal music, but complete absence is probably not a good thing for
someone claiming vocal adherence as they are required to mimic vocal
taans.
As you have pointed out, Ud Ali AK did not play the majority of his
compositions in the style you have described - he more or less stuck
to the dara diri compositions, whereas Ud AmAK's compositions are
probably 60-40. Examples are: Darbari: Yare man biyan biyan : Yaman :
he plays Kinare Kinare and Sakhi Eli Ali. Durga: Jai Jai Durga, etc.
Then there is the third (and finger breaking) category of his
compositions which don't fall into either the dara diri or vocal based
categories- they are exercises in pure technical capability, and only
for drut (which is why you won't hear any other sarodiya attempt them
in pubic) - e.g Sughrai Kanada, Hamsadhwani drut. They require the
finger technique of ekhara taans, however, they are uniquely sarod
compositions as they are customised for the string changes that you
run into due to limited notes available per string. They also have a
rhythmic component, so end up being non-linear note patterns, and
difficult to replicate in other instruments (say sitar ).
Incidentally, I found BuddhaDG play some similar compositions as well.
Re: aesthetics of ekhara taans - please elaborate. I'm assuming that
you would prefer them not to be employed. Interestingly, you are the
second person I've come across with this point of view - a former A
grade classical vocalist from Bombay who is related to Pannalal Ghosh,
and now lives and teaches in Melbourne has repeatedly made the same
point, saying " it does not suit the instrument". (and not explaining
further). I'd be glad if you share your thinking.
Cheers
Sabyasachi
Imnot Apadmashri
1...@gmail.com> provided:
> http://soundcloud.com/sidch/ali-akbar-khan-bhairavi
Wow! a 17-minute-long encore! When and where was this?
(with apologies to Sabyasachi for going off-thread-topic)
DG
C Parthapratim
wrote:
This is the Montreal concert I guess, Darbari, Chandranandan, Manj
Khamaj, then this Dadra.
Partha
Siddhartha Chaudhuri
> This is the Montreal concert I guess, Darbari, Chandranandan, Manj
> Khamaj, then this Dadra.
Actually, this is a different concert. It is preceded by a 50 min Zila
Kafi. The year, as I mentioned in the first post, is 1987 (location
unknown, presumably not in India since he's speaking in English).
S
C Parthapratim
Ah OK. Who was there on Tabla? Any info?
Siddhartha Chaudhuri
> Ah OK. Who was there on Tabla? Any info?
Zakir. See first post! Should also be clear from his frequent
talking :).
S
Siddhartha Chaudhuri
> Good to get your point of view - should probably start a new thread,
> as we are now well and truly off topic (AmAK bashing).
Dear Sabyasachi,
I agree we are off-topic, but I think you will agree that this topic,
which is a musical rather than personal discussion, is more
palatable :).
I am neither a musician nor a musicologist, and as an uninformed
listener I will definitely not argue over sarod technique with a
practising sarodiya. Thank you for your analysis of Amjad Ali Khan's
technique, which I found interesting.
However, I think you misinterpret my remarks when you claim I "have
pointed out [that] Ud Ali AK did not play the majority of his
compositions in the style [I] have described". The variety of Ali
Akbar Khan's repertoire expressed itself reasonably uniformly in both
breadth (across different performances, for a quick example listen to
his several dozen 78rpms) and depth (within the same performance). I
am particularly fond of his masitkhani gats precisely because of their
lyrical, "clean" content. And am much less fond of most jhala
sections.
On the topic of gayaki ang: your criteria are certainly reasonable,
though I have always thought of "gayaki ang" as not just a
compositional effort (how to structure the melodic line) but also an
ornamentational effort (reproduction of vocal nuances on the
instrument, something Vilayat Khan did with great success). Either
way, the definition itself is unimportant. What I would like to
comment on is your assertion: "the gat has to be traceable to a vocal
composition". I think you implicitly assume that the vocal composition
should be easily identifiable. It is quite possible (indeed, probable)
that many Maihar and traditional gats are quite strongly based on
dhrupad/khayal pieces that most of us are not familiar with.
This is not to say that they are necessarily note-for-note identical.
They are modified to suit the idiom of the sarod, or perhaps patched
together into a portmanteau gat. Which brings me to my next point:
despite the prevailing myth, I don't believe the purpose of
instrumental music is to mimic vocal music. If so, we would all be
playing sarangis. Its only purpose is to project ragas as fully as
possible, and for this reason each instrument, given its limitations,
has developed its own idiom. Occasionally, through modifications in
both construction and technique, the idiom changes for the better --
Allauddin/Ali Akbar/Vilayat being notable examples. However, technique
only for the sake of reproduction remains mimicry at best. Nishant
observed that Amjad Ali Khan's early music provided "elegant
approximations of Vilayat Khan". I just spent some time going over
several of his albums from the late 60s/early 70s (MusicIndiaOnline is
awesome) and cannot but agree. And in this context it stands as
mimicry of mimicry, albeit at a very high level of virtuosity.
Hence, in evaluating technique, one needs to ask: is it facilitating
the expression of a raga? If you think the answer, in the case of any
artist, is yes, then only has the technical innovation succeeded. It
is therefore irrelevant to ask whether AmAK plays "kinAre kinAre"
accurately or not -- the real question is whether in doing so he plays
Yaman better than, say, his father.
Of course, there is one immediate benefit in playing verbatim the
beautiful, famous compositions you mention: a knowledgeable listener
who is familiar with the bandishes from vocal music will instantly
feel the thrill of recognition, increasing his/her enjoyment of the
music. Deepak Raja made this point in the case of Vilayat Khan (in a
completely complimentary sense). I do feel the same pleasure when I
can mentally "sing along" with the bandish.
I acknowledge that even though I don't personally care very much for
Amjad Ali Khan's music, I could be drawn to a future performer who
uses the technical skills you say AmAK has pioneered, but with greater
musical imagination. (This is pretty much how I feel about Vilayat
Khan vis-a-vis Nikhil Banerjee.)
That expresses my view on sarod ekhara tans as well: I don't think
AmAK has managed to fit them into a coherent gayaki (they don't seem
to blend with the rest of the music like the vocal tans they attempt
to duplicate), but perhaps some future genius will be able to achieve
this.
S
C Parthapratim
Then another (at least) similar recording exists. The one I was
talking about is also with Zakir but was preceded by Bhup-Mand Mishra
Mand Ragmala (45 minutes, and not Manj Khamaj). Before that he played
Darbari and Chandranandan. This was in Montreal, '70s.
Partha
Sabyasachi
Thanks for you insights. I think with your last post I can see the
fundamental difference in musical opinion between us, although I
largely agree with what you have said.
My responses to your points:
Re: Maihar composition traceable to vocal music: I agree with your
point. Maybe some knowledgeable Maihar rasik will provide more
information.
Ud Ali AK's music: I have listened (probably not as much as you) to
his music over many years. However, I do need to go back and listen
some more, keeping my biases in check. I must declare that often I
have stopped listening to a track in the middle because he does things
which are simply unacceptable to me from a professional musician:
jangling strings, muffled strokes, wooden or leathery notes (possibly
due to too much ra or upward strokes or playing too close to the
bridge), awkward pauses and delays in getting a note out - it's almost
like he's struggling to complete the notes- his java (pick) sounds
like its caught in the strings and he's pushing to get it over the
line. My bias is towards clean delivery of sound as a pre-requisite
and he fails that test on many occasions. And just as you find Ud AmAK
lacking in aesthetics, I find Ud Ali AK in the same category - too
much "tweaking" around phrases similar to semi-classical music,
repetition etc. Other than his flashes of genius where he plucks a new
angle to a raga, I find his music quite ordinary, although light years
ahead of the dara-diri bashing group of yesteryears. And playing super
complex ragas like Darbari Todi which no one really understands
doesn't earn him a lot of points from me. However, you have made me
think about going back and listening to everything from Ud Ali AK I
can lay my hands on without being distracted by such irritants. Who
knows - I may change my opinion !
I do agree with your point about Ud AmAK: he certainly could have gone
further in his raga expansion.
Gayaki Ang: This is where we differ in our basic beliefs and you may
have misunderstood my intent. I believe that that the Raga is the
central theme, and the best possible compositions need to be selected
to highlight the essence of the raga, whether it's a vocal or an
instrumental offering. Playing Lagi Lagan (Vatapi Ganapati) is not to
mimic the vocalist's rendering of Hamsadhwani, but to start with
something which captures the essence of the raga. It is certainly not
to give rasikas a comfortable feeling of familiarity or to play the
composition verbatim. Both VK and AmAK hardly play verbatim vocals -
you can trace the source if you know the vocal composition, but there
is no note by note reproduction. Examples: VK's Darbari - based on
"Anokhe Laal" and AmAK's Ektal :"Yare Man Biyan Biya" have so many
embellishments even in the Mukhda, that the source is not that
obvious. I would contend that the thrill felt when listening to these
compositions is due to the power of the underlying vocal masterpiece,
rather than familiarity. The point I am trying to make is this: why
settle for a second or third rate composition when benchmark
compositions have already been prepared by vocalists. While idioms
exist for individual instruments, conveying the essence of the raga
should be the central motive - not delivery of a sarod version or
sitar version of the raga concerned. This is a matter of preference -
you may well disagree with me on this point.
The sarod needs much development and refinement. Unfortunately, the
future genius that we need is not on the scene yet, and given the
rapid dilution of this art form when sarodiyas are indistinguishable
from rock bands in terms of decibel level, we'll be waiting for a
while.
Once again, thank you for your responses. You have given me much to
think about. And it's time I got back to my riyaaz.
Regards
Sabyasachi
Nishant Sharma
Sabyasachi and Siddhartha are beginning to raise some fundamental
questions here. DG has already started a new thread about the
"purpose" of music, and some of the points perhaps belong in that new
thread. I will, therefore, stick to sarod and raga specific issues -
those which revolve around a tangible set of deliverables and the
means to achieve them.
First of all, I'll try and take a dig at the issue of "vocalism" in
sarod music. Siddhartha has already stated that the emulation of vocal
music on the sarod had begun as early as Radhika Mohan Maitra and Ali
Akbar Khan. While I would hesitate to agree that Maitra had a lesser
degree of vocal influence than AAK, it is certainly a fact that sarod
construction from the 1930s onwards was aimed at greater acoustic
sustain, in aid of the artistes' general intent of longer and more
resonant notes. Ayet Ali Khan, Allauddin's brother, is the man
generally credited with the creation of several sarods that were aimed
at this end, and Ali Akbar's magical sounding sarod was also built by
him. There are, of course, a number of freak sarods created between
1860 and 1880 that lead us to question the conjecture that acoustic
sustain of sarods actually improved after 1930, but let's suppose for
now, that at least the artistic _intent_ of sarodiyas started tilting
towards vocalized expression in this period.
I would argue that most sarodiyas who had received dhrupad and
sursringar training from Seniya masters from the mid-19th century up
until this point, had aesthetically aligned themselves with dhrupad
music. That their instrument could not achieve every nuance of the
music they idealized was one of the reasons why they were compelled to
dig into their instrumental tradition and come up with expressional
tools (read technique) that would somehow fill the void. Some filled
this void successfully, and some others did not. It is said that
Allauddin Khan used to venerate one Abdullah Khan as one of the best
alaap players he had ever heard on the sarod, and describes several
incidents in which he describes the magical tonal quality and acoustic
sustain of the latter's meend work. (Adrian McNeil dwells briefly upon
one of these stories in his book or a paper. I don't remember which.)
So it is clear that the fetish for vocalized alapchari existed much
before the times of our hero, Amjad Miyan. What is notable here is
that the style of vocal music that Maitra and the senior AAK aligned
themselves with, or at least idolized, was dhrupad (most likely Nauhar
and Gauhar banis), and the khayal music of Faiyaz Khan. Amjad Ali, on
the other hand, grew up listening to Bade Ghulam Ali, Amir Khan and
Vilayat Khan's sitar. Since the term "gayaki ang" was already
beginning to gain currency with Vilayat Khan's marketing agenda, it
wasn't difficult for Amjad to jump onto the bandwagon and create a
niche since his own aesthetic inclinations lay in this emerging, then
experimental domain. The way AmAK approached this, it is clear that
his ambition was considerably greater than the risk involved.
Moreover, Amjad was superbly gifted with exactly the tools he needed
to try and emulate VK's ongoing work, namely, fast and accurate left
hand, and a right hand that could manage very clean string-changes
even at high speeds.
On the topic of "gayaki ang", both Siddhartha and Sabyasachi have
offered interesting perspectives, but I would tend to agree more with
Siddhartha, as he offers a more wholesome view on translating song
onto an instrument. There is a reason why bols exist on the sarod. In
spite of the best possible left-right hand coordination and flawless
execution of meends and murkis, a vocal composition almost always
lacks that 'fizz', when played without any right-hand embellishment on
the sarod. Amjad Ali's efforts at playing "eri aali piya bina...", or
"kinare kinare..." on the sarod have always struck me as unimaginative
and mere imitations of masterpieces. For me, the placement of a "diri"
in a 'sarodified' vocal composition must be that place where there is
a string change at the end of a meend or murki. This must be done in
order to fill in the void created by the end of the last bit of
resonance from the previous stroke, as a prelude to the string change.
Thus, it is not just a personal preference in musical terms, but also
a logical way of using technique to the hilt to make the music
'clean'. Amjad's gats sound insipid because they do not adhere to this
simple principle. On the other hand, let us consider Radhika Mohan
Maitra's gats, like the famous "gayaki ang" gat in Sur(dasi) Malhar
that Nikhil Banerjee plays on his famous record use a combination of
meends and "diri"s exactly where they are needed. I agree one hundred
percent with Siddhartha that Maitra's recorded performances do not
demonstrate much reliance on khayal-ang postures, but it is his
compositions that are a hallmark of his genius and a testimony to his
understanding of the need to delicately balance meend work with bols,
so as to bring out the fragrance of a song without losing its essence
in translation. Unfortunately, Maitra's famous disciple, Buddhadeb,
never shared his guru's aesthetic vision, and tends to put his vision
of "taiyari" and laya drills above the spirit of a raga or that of a
bandish.
Speaking of Amjad Ali's technique, I believe there have been other
sarod players, perhaps not so famous and perhaps not as refined in
their delivery of each sentence, who have surpassed Amjad even in
ekhara taan technique, and most definitely in their melodic content,
structure, range and scope. I will be sure to post some recordings in
support of my argument as soon as I can manage to clean up medium-wave
broadcast recordings from AIR. Until then, I shall not name any
artiste. I disagree entirely with Siddhartha's view that ekhara taans
are unsuitable for sarod music. I think Amjad Ali Khan has built upon
an idea Hafiz Ali and Radhika Maitra had researched independently, and
greatly expanded the scope of its technique. For this, he does deserve
his due. In this context, R M Maitra's 1937 rendering of Todi makes
for interesting listening:
http://www.itcsra.org/audio/instrumental/sarod/radhikamohanmoitra_todi.ram
I think this wire-recorded 78 rpm disc serves to back up my harangue
so far. :) All his ekharas here are played with the downward stroke.
Now a brief commentary on Sabyasachi's ideas on Amjad Ali's alleged
encapsulation of the spirit of a raga in a sarod composition. I refuse
to consider Hamsadhwani as a valid test vehicle because by itself, it
does not have well-defined melodic signature to meet the criteria of a
Hindustani raga. This brings me back to my earlier position about
Amjad's choice of ragas. His technically superb recordings (ekhara-
wise) are usually in a raga where it is possible to play dha ni sa ga
ma (regardless of komal/shuddha degrees of these notes) very rapidly
from the Pa string onwards until he reaches the open Ma string. His
preferences for Rageshri, Nandkauns, 'Kaunsi Kanada', Bageshri,
Malkauns, Kaushik Dhwani, etc. are examples of this trend. My point
here is that contrary to Sabyasachi's arguments, Amjad Ali's music is
largely convenience driven. The raga is a consideration secondary to
showing off his technical prowess, and his compositions, while claimed
to be derivative of vocal music (60-40, as Sabyasachi has stated
earlier is a good ratio for the period 1966-76), fail to convey the
essential ideas of a raga and end up, instead, showcasing Amjad. This
is my biggest problem with Amjad Ali Khan and his music.
Since Sabyasachi also mentions the use of VK and AmAK's use of "anokha
ladla..." and "yare man biya biya", respectively, I am left wondering
if his inability to instantly recognize the sources of these gats
aren't perhaps a result of his own limitations which, somehow, have
escaped his otherwise rigorous scrutiny. :)
Regards,
Nishant
Siddhartha Chaudhuri
wrote:
>Siddhartha has already stated that the emulation of vocal
> music on the sarod had begun as early as Radhika Mohan Maitra and Ali
> Akbar Khan. While I would hesitate to agree that Maitra had a lesser
> degree of vocal influence than AAK
Let me clarify: I did not mean that at all! I merely meant that his
realization of the vocal idiom in longer meend-based passages, to
judge from available recordings, was less complete than Ali Akbar's
baaz. I hold this as a limitation at least partly introduced by his
instrument. To quote BDG ( http://www.raga.com/interviews/210int1.html
):
"... the latest finishing touches to the sarod were given by somebody
belonging to a totally different gharana, Ustad Allauddin Khan. He
made the drum bigger and rounder, and added four extra strings, which
were called tanpura strings. The tonality of the instrument improved,
and the mirs, the glides were longer sustained and all that. This
improvement is about 60 years old. This was done totally by Allauddin
and his brother, Ayet Ali who was an expert instrument maker also...
My Ustad stuck to the old form totally but somehow or other I fell for
this round drum but not for the extra strings, the second little
bridge and all that."
This is not to say he did not have extensive vocal influence, or that
it is not audible in his recordings! I'm a huge fan of Radhubabu. His
raga sense, lyricism and stroke dynamism are incredible.
For the benefit of readers of this thread, let me provide the Surdasi
Malhar recording (27 mins, 50MB) Nishant mentioned. I believe the
relevant gat is on display. I did not know he was the author of this
gat -- was he?
http://graphics.stanford.edu/~sidch/RadhikaMohanMaitra-SurdasiMalhar.mp3
On the ekhara tan topic, I agree I should have given Radhubabu his
due, though he did not take them to quite the same blinding speed that
AmAK does (even in the Todi rec, he switches to diri-diri tans at the
absolute highest speed). I did not imply that AmAK was the first to
play ekhara tans. My earlier comment referred more to Amjad's
propensity to sprinkle ekhara tans at the highest speed into otherwise
sedate passages, changing the chhand completely, and not in a good
way. Which is why I referred to "current exponents" in my first post.
I have some vague recollection of the famous Asadullah (Kaukubh) Khan
playing tremendously fast, possibly ekhara tans, on the banjo (which
he picked up in Paris when his sarod broke) in his well-known very
early recordings. I may be wrong.
S
Siddhartha Chaudhuri
> However, you have made me think about going back and listening to
> everything from Ud Ali AK I can lay my hands on without being
> distracted by such irritants. Who knows - I may change my opinion !
Then for starters, I would avoid all commercial recs post-1970 (not
including re-releases of old recs), and all non-commercial recs
post-1990 :). Have you heard his 78s?
You've definitely caused me to listen to much more Amjad than usual
over the last few days!
S
naniwadekar
1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 20, 6:45 am, Sabyasachi wrote:
>
> Then for starters, I would avoid all commercial recs post-1970 ..
> Have you heard his 78s?
>
I have, but my source has passed away and his collection
has disappeared. How can a seeker get hold of 78s and
45s released by Ali Akbar and/or/plus Ravi Shankar? I have
heard good things about Vilayat Khan's 78s, too, but they
are less important to me.
The site dovesong.com used to (probably still does) host
several great LP-length or CD-length recitals. Doe Patrick
Moutal's site host Ali Akbar Khan's 78-rpm releases?
- dn
Siddhartha Chaudhuri
> I have, but my source has passed away and his collection
> has disappeared. How can a seeker get hold of 78s and
> 45s released by Ali Akbar and/or/plus Ravi Shankar? I have
> heard good things about Vilayat Khan's 78s, too, but they
> are less important to me.
Here are some. There are more (including some with RS), but those need
a bit more cleaning up before I can offer them for public consumption.
http://graphics.stanford.edu/~sidch/AAK_78_EP.zip
Also, while on the topic of RMM, I actually like this rec even more.
The vocal influence is even more obvious.
http://graphics.stanford.edu/~sidch/RadhikaMohanMaitra-NatMalhar.mp3
@Partha: Any chance you could share the Montreal concert rec?
S
Rasikpiya
A little more diversion form the topic. I have read in detail about
the opinions of learned members on Banditji and Amjad.
Whats all of yours opinions are about Vilayat Khan?
I know I was born too late (Can't help it!) and I couldnt see and hear
him in his creative heydays. If you could share some of your thoughts
about him and some of his earlier recordings, I will be indebted.
Thanks,
RP
naniwadekar
>
> > How can a seeker get hold of 78s by Ali Akbar ..
>
> Here are some. There are more (including some with RS), but those need
> a bit more cleaning up before I can offer them for public consumption.
>
I cannot thank you enough for this. Looking forward to listening again
to his 78s with RS.
By the way, why are Shree and 'Shree (vilambit)' so labelled? The
theka is the same madhya-laya in both of them but Ali Akbar's playing
in the clip named (just) Shree is more sedate than in the Shree-
vilambit clip.
I am listening to them one by one now. Kaushi Kanada is beautiful and
Bageshri is phenomenal.
- dn
Siddhartha Chaudhuri
> By the way, why are Shree and 'Shree (vilambit)' so labelled? The
> theka is the same madhya-laya in both of them but Ali Akbar's playing
> in the clip named (just) Shree is more sedate than in the Shree-
> vilambit clip.
Uh, I assume whoever gave me the mp3's of the N16764 disc had labelled
it as such. I didn't bother to change it. Don't take the labels too
seriously :).
S
Archisman Mozumder
Dear friends,
I have two recordings of Amjad Ali Khan of the mid-60-s. Two 45 rpm
recordings of Hindustan Records. Baageshwari & Lalita Dhwani in one
and a 2-sided Kaushi Kanhra in the other. The Kaushi Kanhra is his
first ever commercial recording.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/n2inqjm4mf2/45%20rpm.amjad%20ali%20khan.ali%20akbar%20khan.zip
(Have also added Ali Akbar Khan's 45 rpm Kaushi Kanhra recording of
the early 60-s, as well because the 'gat'-s are the same)
Apologies for the recording quality. (in the Lalita-dhwani recording.
(There is a little erasing of the original recording as well)
I find the recordings absolutely riveting. These may be traditional
gat-s and perhaps all that is on display here is 'taiyyaari' but what
taiyyaari!
I get the same feeling of amazement (of a larger magnitude) when I
hear Kesarbai's 200 seconds of Nat Kamod, Lalita Gauri or Maru Bihag.
Mallikarjun-buwa is reputed to have commented that 'baai ka gaana
(Bade Khan-sahab ka) baithaya huya gaana hai' (set-piece music). I
adore it, none the less.
Nishant-ji had pointed towards a link where there is a madhyalaya gat
of Maru Bihag on display, played to a 12&1/2 beat cycle. A comment was
made about the absence of the spirit of the raag in that clip.
Maybe, the entire recording (with a proper alaap and jod, if played in
that particular concert), may have helped us understand the raag
better.
Moghubai's famous madhyalay yaman tarana, sung in a complex laya,
IMHO, shows nothing about the raag's beauty but everything about
Moghubai's wonderful singing and laya skills. I'm absolutely sure that
had she sung a 30-min yaman with this tarana being the concluding
piece, things would have been different.
All this said, I personally feel that Ustad Amjad Ali Khan, after the
early/mid-80-s did not extrapolate his talent and achievements as he
potentially could have.
This thread has been wonderful to read. I have never heard Amjad Ali
Khan's first HMV recording of (des, kiran ranjani & bhairavi). Is this
album available anywhere?
Thanks in advance.
Regards.
Archisman Mozumder
Dear Dhananjay,
I have RS & AAK's Des, Zilha Kafi, Sarang & Sindhi Bhairavi from two
78 rpm-s. If you do not have them, I'll be happy to share.
Regards.
naniwadekar
>
> Moghubai's famous madhyalay yaman tarana, sung in a complex laya,
> IMHO, shows nothing about the raag's beauty but everything about
> Moghubai's wonderful singing and laya skills. I'm absolutely sure that
>
Archisman : Thanks for the offer of Ali Akbar - RS jugalbandi
recordings. I am emailing you separately, please do share.
Downloaded and heard Amjad Ali's Bagshri. It is reasonably
well played, nice technique, about as good as one could
expect from Amjad; got bored at 4:30 mark. Listen to the
next 60 seconds and tell me: what is the point? And this,
in what might be one of his better recordings. His taiyyari
isn't what I used to think it to be. He played reasonably well
for 4 out of 6 minutes. That is not much from a man who
would have you believe he personifies an instrument graced
by Ali Akbar Khan.
Dragging Mogubai Kurdikar and Ali Akbar in a discussion
of Amjad Ali's music does not elevate it. It is what it is.
Actually discussing Ali Akbar and Amjad together shows
Amjad up to be the hollow musician that he is.
And I don't agree with you that Mogubai's Yaman shows
nothing of the raag's beauty. The accent is less on beauty
but that approach adds to the variety of Yamans available
to listeners. J M Barrie said of Macartney (Charles M who
sent a letter to his wife in Australia every week, not
the moron wife-beater Paul M) that he 'tires of making the
same stroke again'. There are plenty of sweet and beautiful
Yaman-s around. But only Mogubai has recorded a tarana
in a complex 15.5 beat taal in it rather than playing yet
another routine Yaman-drive, bat behind the ball, nose
poked in a standard text-book. Personally I do not
understand the mechanics governing singing in a 15.5 cycle
rather than 10 or 12 or 16. But it is a beautiful recording
which evokes Yaman perfectly well.
- dn
>
> 1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 20, 11:46 am, naniwadekar <nani3ski...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I have, but my source has passed away and his collection
> > > has disappeared. How can a seeker get hold of 78s and
> > > 45s released by Ali Akbar and/or/plus Ravi Shankar? I have
> > > heard good things about Vilayat Khan's 78s, too, but they
> > > are less important to me.
>
> > Here are some. There are more (including some with RS), but those need
> > a bit more cleaning up before I can offer them for public consumption.
>
> >http://graphics.stanford.edu/~sidch/AAK_78_EP.zip
>
> > Also, while on the topic of RMM, I actually like this rec even more.
> > The vocal influence is even more obvious.
>
> >http://graphics.stanford.edu/~sidch/RadhikaMohanMaitra-NatMalhar.mp3
>
> > @Partha: Any chance you could share the Montreal concert rec?
>
> > S
>
> Dear friends,
>
> I have two recordings of Amjad Ali Khan of the mid-60-s. Two 45 rpm
> recordings of Hindustan Records. Baageshwari & Lalita Dhwani in one
> and a 2-sided Kaushi Kanhra in the other. The Kaushi Kanhra is his
> first ever commercial recording.
>
> http://www.mediafire.com/file/n2inqjm4mf2/45%20rpm.amjad%20ali%20khan...
Nishant Sharma
> I find the recordings absolutely riveting. These may be traditional
> gat-s and perhaps all that is on display here is 'taiyyaari' but what
> taiyyaari!
The "typewriter" ekharas on display in the Bageshri gat hardly bespeak
any taiyari. The "typewriter" (rhythm signature = khanda gati @
chatusra jati) is yet another example of playing a "dara" (down, up)
on one string and then "dadara" while changing strings. Anyone can
play them with a bit of practice. If one calls this taiyari, it is
cheating. A typical AmAK "typewriter" ekhara is as follows: RSnSS,
RSnSS, RSnSS, DMgMM, DnSn DMPG, gMMgR, RSnSS. On the last string, it
is typical of AmAK to break the rhythmic signature, go back to 4/4,
and then come back to 5/4 time in order to exploit the 12112 stroke
pattern. The idea isn't original at all. Hafiz Ali used to play these.
Musical purpose served is zero, but it does draw applause from the
layperson.
Each of the ragas presented here allows the sarodiya to play D/d n/N S
g/G M D/d n/N S' so its like using a VSTOL aircraft and claiming you
can take off in an An-225 from a 3000 foot airfield. And Amjad's
freakish S S' S'', etc taan in Lalitadhwani is no great feat
considering how it blatantly lacks any musical value and fails to add
anything to his exposition of the raga. If he was really so taiyar at
this point, why did he have to make such a choreographed set of octave
jumps? Why did he not try to play D N S' G M D N S'' on the last (Ma)
string at the same speed, which is indeed more challenging?
Finally, what use is taiyari if you cannot construct a single coherent
passage with all those frilly sentences?
> Mallikarjun-buwa is reputed to have commented that 'baai ka gaana
> (Bade Khan-sahab ka) baithaya huya gaana hai' (set-piece music). I
> adore it, none the less.
>
> Nishant-ji had pointed towards a link where there is a madhyalaya gat
> of Maru Bihag on display, played to a 12&1/2 beat cycle. A comment was
> made about the absence of the spirit of the raag in that clip.
Janaab, Kesarbai ka gaana rata hua tha, magar unhone Alladiya Khan
sahab ke gaane ko poori tameez ke saath rata tha. There was a higher
intelligence on display in the construction of each passage, by
Alladiya Khan. Unfortunately, such construction and design is not on
display in Amjad's music for the most part. The endeavor, as I have
argued already, is entirely to show himself off. As for Amjad Ali's
present-day alaps, the less said/written the better. By the time his
jor/jhala would've ended, I would have found myself outside at the
chaiwalla's.
> This thread has been wonderful to read. I have never heard Amjad Ali
> Khan's first HMV recording of (des, kiran ranjani & bhairavi). Is this
> album available anywhere?
I have a digitized copy of this LP. Will upload later today along with
commentary on the Des.
@ Siddhartha - The quality of AAK's music on those 78 discs is the
closest this music gets to magic. Thank you for bringing these up and
sharing with those who did not have them already. :)
Regards,
Nishant
Archisman Mozumder
> Archisman : Thanks for the offer of Ali Akbar - RS jugalbandi
> recordings. I am emailing you separately, please do share.
Dear Dhananjay,
You are most welcome. I got these from a music collector who sent them
to me after my request in RMIC.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ddmmymnmdew/rsaak.zip
These 4 recordings are absolutely divine.
> Downloaded and heard Amjad Ali's Bagshri. It is reasonably
> well played, nice technique, about as good as one could
> expect from Amjad; got bored at 4:30 mark. Listen to the
> next 60 seconds and tell me: what is the point? And this,
> in what might be one of his better recordings. His taiyyari
> isn't what I used to think it to be. He played reasonably well
> for 4 out of 6 minutes. That is not much from a man who
> would have you believe he personifies an instrument graced
> by Ali Akbar Khan.
>
As I said, I find the recordings to be absolutely riveting. A matter
of individual choices, perhaps.
> Dragging Mogubai Kurdikar and Ali Akbar in a discussion
> of Amjad Ali's music does not elevate it. It is what it is.
> Actually discussing Ali Akbar and Amjad together shows
> Amjad up to be the hollow musician that he is.
>
> And I don't agree with you that Mogubai's Yaman shows
> nothing of the raag's beauty. The accent is less on beauty
> but that approach adds to the variety of Yamans available
> to listeners. J M Barrie said of Macartney (Charles M who
> sent a letter to his wife in Australia every week, not
> the moron wife-beater Paul M) that he 'tires of making the
> same stroke again'. There are plenty of sweet and beautiful
> Yaman-s around. But only Mogubai has recorded a tarana
> in a complex 15.5 beat taal in it rather than playing yet
> another routine Yaman-drive, bat behind the ball, nose
> poked in a standard text-book. Personally I do not
> understand the mechanics governing singing in a 15.5 cycle
> rather than 10 or 12 or 16. But it is a beautiful recording
> which evokes Yaman perfectly well.
Actually, I adore that yaman recording so much that I'd hate to be
misinterpreted as saying/hinting anything that tarnishes its glory. My
only point is that beautiful madhyalaya tarana (which is a delightful
composition) is repeated 3-4 times (alongwith the antara) and she
rounds of the recording with a few taans. It showcases her laydaari
and her effortless capability to reel off melodious & complex taans.
IMHO, anyone looking for a compact recording of yaman will find more
in D V Paluskar's 78 rpm of 'langar turak'.
Another query. I know I have asked this before. After listening to the
tarana-piece and carefully counting the beats on the finger-joint
marks of the inside of my palm, I always infer that the tarana is set
in 16 & 1/2 beats (and not 15 & 1/2).
I must be missing something somewhere. Will be delighted to be
corrected on this.
Regards.
>
> - dn
Archisman Mozumder
wrote:
Dear Nishant-ji,
Thanks for your comments. I guess the difference lies in the fact that
you have a lot of technical insight into the playing of the sarod
which enables you to evaluate performances using different parameters.
For me. hos recordings of the 60-s & 70-s, show a boldness of
strokeplay and a level of skill (where no note seems even fractionally
off-tune) that I have not heard in recorded music. As said before,
almost Kesarbai-ish in its confident competence.
>
> Finally, what use is taiyari if you cannot construct a single coherent
> passage with all those frilly sentences?
For me, all the 3 gat-s seemed to have some beautiful passages. In
fact, the alaap of Kashi Kanhra was delightful. Several notches higher
that Ali Akbar Khan, who incidentally played the same gat. Since, Ali
Akbar's recording is from a 45 rpm, it may be safe to assume that he
too played that piece when he was at his peak (early 60-s?)
>
> > Mallikarjun-buwa is reputed to have commented that 'baai ka gaana
> > (Bade Khan-sahab ka) baithaya huya gaana hai' (set-piece music). I
> > adore it, none the less.
>
> > Nishant-ji had pointed towards a link where there is a madhyalaya gat
> > of Maru Bihag on display, played to a 12&1/2 beat cycle. A comment was
> > made about the absence of the spirit of the raag in that clip.
>
> Janaab, Kesarbai ka gaana rata hua tha, magar unhone Alladiya Khan
> sahab ke gaane ko poori tameez ke saath rata tha. There was a higher
> intelligence on display in the construction of each passage, by
> Alladiya Khan. Unfortunately, such construction and design is not on
> display in Amjad's music for the most part. The endeavor, as I have
> argued already, is entirely to show himself off. As for Amjad Ali's
> present-day alaps, the less said/written the better. By the time his
> jor/jhala would've ended, I would have found myself outside at the
> chaiwalla's.
About his present-day music, it is hard to disagree with you.
Copying an anecdote about Amjad Ali Khan that I had written in RMIC, a
few years ago:
".....An incident of my childhood may throw some light about my views.
In the
mid-80's, I had the chance to attend an 'all night' programme in my
home town in up-country West Bengal, where artistes of these statures
appeared, perhaps, once in a couple of years. Khan-sahib, who started
playing at about 9.30 p.m. commenced with raag Bihag. For about 40
mins, the alaap was so mesmerising that I (an un-musical
impressionable teenager) was moved to tears. However, the majority of
the crowd was extremely upset that the handsome Ustad Zakir Hussain
was sitting at Khan-saheb's side twiddling his thumbs & promptly
hooted Khansaheb to end his alaap and 'get on with the gat'.
Khansaheb, with a pained, wry smile promptly ended his alaap &
started
playing the gat. One could make out that the passion had gone out of
his recital while the crowd was agog with excitement at the
'sawal-jawaab' that ensued. They revelled in the 'ding-thud ding-
thud'
duel & went home happy. My father, who was at my side, vouchsafed
that
at the same location, a decade and a half ago, the same Amjad Ali, a
young performer, had captured the hearts of the audience with a
recitals where the audience was swept off their feet by Khan-saheb's
alaap, jod & jhala & of course, his masitkhani & rezakhani gats. (The
tabla accompanist was Keramat-ullah Khan)."
Not to drive home any other point but to say that even a delicate &
romantic raag like bihag seemed to radiate via the bold and tuneful
strokeplay of the artist.
>
> > This thread has been wonderful to read. I have never heard Amjad Ali
> > Khan's first HMV recording of (des, kiran ranjani & bhairavi). Is this
> > album available anywhere?
>
> I have a digitized copy of this LP. Will upload later today along with
> commentary on the Des.
I'll look forward to those recordings eagerly. Many many thanks for
your offer.
>
> @ Siddhartha - The quality of AAK's music on those 78 discs is the
> closest this music gets to magic.
Very difficult to disagree.
>
> Regards,
>
> Nishant
Regards-Archisman.
Archisman Mozumder
> of Amjad Ali's music does not elevate it. It is what it is.
> Actually discussing Ali Akbar and Amjad together shows
> Amjad up to be the hollow musician that he is.
>
> - dn
Dear Dhananjay,
Apologies for responding again to the same post of yours. I 'dragged'
Ali Akbar as he too has played the same gat of Kaushi Kanhra.
And IMHO, there was nothing 'hollow' about Amjad Ali Khan's music
till, say, the early 1980-s. However, I must hasten to add that I am a
complete layman which appreciating ICM, especially the instrumental
variety. All that I can say Amjad Ali was consistently so skillful in
his heydays and his mastery over the instrument was so impressive,
that, barring Ustad Vilayat Khan, there is nobody who compares
favourably (VK was in a different league altogether).
Thanks for your views. This thread has been very very enjoyable to
follow.
Regards.
naniwadekar
>
> On the last string, it
> is typical of AmAK to break the rhythmic signature, go back to 4/4,
> and then come back to 5/4 time in order to exploit the 12112 stroke
> pattern. The idea isn't original at all. Hafiz Ali used to play these.
> Musical purpose served is zero, but it does draw applause from the
> layperson.
>
> passage with all those frilly sentences?
>
Nishant : I don't agree that musical purpose
served in repetition of that rhythmic pattern
is zero, nor do I think that no musically coherent
passage is to be heard in Amjad's Bageshree
uplaoded by Archisman. But the gat just isn't as good
as Archisman finds it to be.
Archisman: Thanks for Ali Akbar - RS jugalbandi. Ali
Akbar is at his best when he is performing with Ravi
Shankar and the two are drawing each other out with
ideas which keep getting better and better.
Ali Akbar's Yaman jugalbandi with Vilayat Khan, hosted
on SAWF pages, is also utterly amazing.
- dn
C Parthapratim
Yes. Soon. I'll have to digitize it first.
Siddhartha Chaudhuri
> Ali Akbar's Yaman jugalbandi with Vilayat Khan, hosted
> on SAWF pages, is also utterly amazing.
Have you heard their one-hour Yaman Kalyan? I like the Behag that
follows even more (including Vilayat singing "lat uljhi suljhA jA
bAlam" while Ali Akbar plays along :) ).
There's also a Marwa, Puriya Kalyan and Bhairavi, recorded in 1978.
Total time a bit over 4 hrs.
S
Archisman Mozumder
> > Khan's first HMV recording of (des, kiran ranjani & bhairavi). Is this
> > album available anywhere?
>
> I have a digitized copy of this LP. Will upload later today along with
> commentary on the Des.
>
>
>
> Nishant
Dear Nishant-ji,
If you do get a chance to share this (first LP of Ustad Amjad Ali
Khan), I'll be eternally grateful.
Regards.
Siddhartha Chaudhuri
> > > This thread has been wonderful to read. I have never heard Amjad Ali
> > > Khan's first HMV recording of (des, kiran ranjani & bhairavi). Is this
> > > album available anywhere?
>
> > I have a digitized copy of this LP. Will upload later today along with
> > commentary on the Des.
>
> > Regards,
>
> > Nishant
>
> Dear Nishant-ji,
>
> If you do get a chance to share this (first LP of Ustad Amjad Ali
> Khan), I'll be eternally grateful.
Dear Archisman,
You can listen to that album and several others on MusicIndiaOnline (a
wonderful general resource, btw) at either of the links below:
http://bit.ly/bJtdlY
http://bit.ly/bs5awe
S
Archisman Mozumder
1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Archisman,
>
> You can listen to that album and several others on MusicIndiaOnline (a
> wonderful general resource, btw) at either of the links below:
>
> http://bit.ly/bJtdlYhttp://bit.ly/bs5awe
>
> S
Many thanks.
Regards.
bhazra...@gmail.com
> Dear Internet Rasiks
>
> I thought I'd write this post after finding an yet another article
> ridiculing Ustad Amjad Ali Khan (let me declare that I have a personal
> bias at play here - but more on that later).
>
> As we are all aware, Hindustani music is immersed in sycophancy and
> pseudo-spiritual marketing material (usually intended for overseas
> audiences), over-the-hill maestros promoting their progeny etc, so it
> was a breath of fresh air to find a group of ICM music lovers on
> various fora/newsgroups who did not conform to this tradition and
> instead were willing to debate and share their thoughts in a candid
> manner.
>
> However, I've observed that over the last few years, this group has
> gradually degenerated into precisely the same kind of conduct that
> infuriated them about the ICM scene : rabid criticism, "my opinion is
> better than yours", name calling (bad language in some cases),
> focussing on non-musical aspects of prominent musicians (Ud Amjad AK
> and Pt Jasraj seem to be favourite whipping boys - however, I was
> surprised to see that even Shahid Parvez dragged in from time to
> time), running contests to spot the most besura musical video on
> Youtube etc. It's almost a contest to come up with the most witty
> insult to anything that a popular CM musician does or says. This
> internet "bhadralok" is now indulging in exactly the same kind of
> behaviour they hated in the first place !
>
> In Australian vernacular, this behaviour of constant complaints and
> criticism is called "whinging".
>
> My appeal is to stop this behaviour. We all accept that musical
> opinion is a matter of personal taste. There is much to be discussed
> and shared without being negative about people. Musicians are no
> different to people in the corporate/academic world - they've got to
> earn a living. Let's not expect saintly behaviour from them. The
> behaviour we are accusing them of is commonplace in every profession -
> some of us may be guilty of exactly the same kind of self-promotion
> ourselves.
>
> Let us acknowledge the body of work from leading musicians of our time
> without running them down - let's separate the person from the music.
>
> Now back to my favourite topic - Ustad Amjad Ali Khan. I notice the
> hypocrisy of some internet posters who privately acknowledge the huge
> body of work that he has produced but flay him in their posts. In
> fact, some of these sarod players, including his students, actually
> copy his work but criticise him in pubic !. For long time lovers of
> the sarod, his recordings from the 60s to the late early 80s contain
> masterpieces. Darbari, Mian Malhar, Bihag, Sughrai Kanada, Hamsadhwani
> etc.Everyone who has ever attempted to play the sarod can only marvel
> at his technical mastery of the instrument. Lay listeners enjoy his
> lyrical style - he has made the sarod popular with his simple and
> elegant compositions. As a vocalist who came to the sarod in my late
> teens and had the good fortune of spending time with him, I can
> assure you that that what you see in public is less than one percent
> of his musical repertoire. I wish that more of this vast treasure was
> performed in public or at least transmitted to a deserving student,
> but I'm in no doubt that even the body of work publicly available sets
> him head and shoulders above most sarodiyas of his generation. It
> saddens me that his genius has largely gone unrecognised - caught up
> in the incessant carping of inferior (and jealous) musicians and their
> fan clubs.
>
> The fact remains that to maintain a career of 40+ years, to come up at
> a time when Ustad Ali Akbar Khan reigned supreme, when the whole
> corporate sponsorship thing did not exist, one has to be reasonably
> competent. The fact that he is not the most articulate blogger (he is
> most comfortabe in Old Delhi Urdu laced Hindi, by the way) and to
> criticise his thoughts on Ustad Amir Khan (who he reveres greatly) is
> just another round in this cruel bashing game that some of us indulge
> in.
>
> I know I'll be flamed (expect some really witty insults and rebuttals
> here), but I'll appeal to our sense of fairness and love of the art
> form - let's not waste time and degrade ourselves in talking down
> musicians - we're mature enough to understand how performing arts work
> and separate the music from the person.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Sabyasachi(Rahul) Bhattacharya
>
> www.sarod.com.au
Sorry friends, i dont have anything personal against amjad Ali sahab. He is a genius in his own right. However, Ustad AliAkbar Khan sahab is in a different league. He is million light years ahead of everyone else....otherwise he wouldn't have been refereed to as Swarasamrat by the father of Indian Classical music...Baba Alauddian Khansaheb himself.
Folks, its not about the technique, the speed of taan execution or masterful rendition of raagdari or laaykari and so on. It's just not about the technique. It's about the beauty of the expressionism. It's about how soothing the music sounds to the ears...it's about whether the music evokes a plethora of emotions or puts you in a state of meditative trance or not. And for that to happen, all you need is a single note to be played in that emotion-wrenching style.....nothing else matters. And in that perspective. AmjadAli Khan falls woefully short. He is all about sheer technique, speed and execution, the depth of riyaaz. But that seldom brings out the element of emotional-beauty in the presentation and exposition. Forget a whole concert, even 10-15 sec passages of Ustad AliAkbar Khan are enough to drench anyone in tears....Nobody else could do that atleast to me. Not that it should matter anything to anybody...but this is my personal interpretation.