alternative raga moods
RE...@pentagon-hqdadss.army.mil
for use in Indian music. It might be hard to take seriously a performance
of druphad on trombone. I recall a performance of Imrat Khan many years ago
that had an abundance of humor in it. I have no idea what raga he played, but
some parts were really funny.
So, this thread relates to non-traditional emotions conveyed in ragas.
While some ragas allow for humor, some ragas are considered light, are
there ragas specifically intended to be humorous, silly, ludicrous, etc?
How about emotions or sentiments that an audience would probably not
care to be subjected to (as they often are in modern western music) but
may not be ruled out at least not on theoretical grounds: anxiety, fear,
revulsion, depravity, grief, war, chaos, etc, etc.
Do ragas involved with these sorts of feelings play any part in
Indian classical music, perhaps dealt with philosophically at
least? Is there a school of radical tantric underground sitarists
exploring these possibilities?
I'd just like to know.
Pankaj Joshi
<RE...@PENTAGON-HQDADSS.ARMY.MIL> wrote:
> I was thinking about my other posting re importing other instruments
>for use in Indian music. It might be hard to take seriously a performance
>of druphad on trombone. I recall a performance of Imrat Khan many years ago
>that had an abundance of humor in it. I have no idea what raga he played, but
>some parts were really funny.
There are quite a few which are adopted by Indian music. Adoption of
violin and harmonium is more than 100 yrs old. Recently I listened to
clarinet playing by Kamble. He was playing Raga Marubihag. He had a nice
blend of Shahanai and Flute styles. It was astounding. Recently there was a
review of a concert by Mohan Ayyar who played Carnatic music on keyboard.
>
> So, this thread relates to non-traditional emotions conveyed in ragas.
>While some ragas allow for humor, some ragas are considered light, are
>there ragas specifically intended to be humorous, silly, ludicrous, etc?
Light ragas dont necessarily convey light emotions. Usually they are used
to express love and devotion. The word light is because of the way they
are played.
>
> How about emotions or sentiments that an audience would probably not
>care to be subjected to (as they often are in modern western music) but
>may not be ruled out at least not on theoretical grounds: anxiety, fear,
>revulsion, depravity, grief, war, chaos, etc, etc.
What are non traditional emotions? I cant think of any. In classical arts
of India total nine rasas (these can be losely translated as emotions,
probably 'feelings' is a more suitable word). These are
shringar = romance
bhakti = devotion
shanta = peace
hasya = laughter, joy
adbhut = wonder
roudra = anger
bibhatsa = revulsion
karuna = sorrow
bhayanak= fear
Like the notes of Indian music these rasas are broadly defined. They have
many shades.
> Do ragas involved with these sorts of feelings play any part in
>Indian classical music, perhaps dealt with philosophically at
>least?
Except for bibhatsa and to some extent fear, I have found many examples
of these feelings in performances of Indian classical music. These two
are probably avoided due to their unpleasant character.
About 'anxiety, fear, depravity, grief, chaos', try listening to Raga
Marwa. If you listen it for extended period of time, you would surely
have a headache. It is a beautiful raga but the chaos is created by
depriving the listener of the tonic. The tonic 'sa' is first established
and then deliberately ommitted. Even an untrained ear keeps searching
for 'sa' which is then unexpectedly presented in the upper octave.
Listen to following renderings
'Piyaa more anat des gayilo' vocal by Amir Khan
'Piyaa more anat des gayilo' vocal by Rajan and Sajan Misra
Sarangi by Ram Narayan
A tarana by Bhimsen Joshi (vocal)
There are some other performances in this raga that dont accentuate above
mention emotions. Marwa is a Hindustani raga and has no Carnatic
equivalent that I know of.
Feeling of anxiety is usually in the form of longing and there are many
examples of it. Ragas with komal re, tivra madhyam, or komal dhaivat
often create such emotions in me. Raga Puria Dhanasree is what comes to my
mind.
For grief again there are many ragas. Raga Bilaskhani Todi is an example.
Raga Asavari is another.
It is not as common to see roudra rasa as bhakti and shringar are. But
it is often touched by aggressive singing or playing. Vocal recital by
Kumar Gandharva in Raga Malkauns is what comes to my mind (dekho ajab
khel ye aaj)
Adbhut rasa is not as uncommon.
All ragas are capable of expressing a variety of emotions and it's the
choice of the performer to accentuate certain emotions.
>Is there a school of radical tantric underground sitarists exploring these
>possibilities?
That is a possibility but since they are underground I dont know nothing
about them.
> I'd just like to know.
Me too.
Pankaj
Jose Luiz Martines
>
> What are non traditional emotions? I cant think of any.
In classical arts
> of India total nine rasas (these can be losely translated
as emotions,
> probably 'feelings' is a more suitable word). These are
>
> shringar = romance
> bhakti = devotion
> shanta = peace
> hasya = laughter, joy
> adbhut = wonder
> roudra = anger
> bibhatsa = revulsion
> karuna = sorrow
> bhayanak= fear
>
> Like the notes of Indian music these rasas are broadly
defined. They have
> many shades.
>
>
shringar are. But
> it is often touched by aggressive singing or playing.
Vocal recital by
> Kumar Gandharva in Raga Malkauns is what comes to my mind
(dekho ajab
> khel ye aaj)
>
> Adbhut rasa is not as uncommon.
>
> All ragas are capable of expressing a variety of emotions
and it's the
> choice of the performer to accentuate certain emotions.
>
That is one of the most interesting features of Indian
music. But I wonder on a few questions (in the context of
traditionally thought theory and practice):
1. How rasa is connected with raga?
2. I've read some ragamala poems (reproduced miniature
paintings and translated poems), making explicit some
relation feeling/raga, but are there, nowadays, still any
musical or structural relationship between a raga and its
rasa, such as the absence of sa inducing instability?
3. If so, how general and uniform are those relationships?
I guess Hindustani, Karnatic traditions; gharanas; and
particular performers; could have different ideas on which
rasa each raga brings forth.
3. Is rasa conveyed by the performer? Let's say, can
Malkauns Raga express roudra (anger)
or bibhatsa (revulsion) depending on how performed?
4. Or is rasa rather result of the lyrics (vocal music)?
5. Do musical instruments express rasa?
6. Has tala ever thought as rasa expressing music entity?
7. Finally, is rasa the listners atribution, based on
personal experiences, or training?
Hope Mataji Sarasvati (and Bharata as well) help us!
Humbly desiring to know as well,
Jose' Luiz Martinez
Paneesh T. Mukundarao
Pankaj Joshi <paj...@enuxsa.eas.asu.edu> wrote:
>blend of Shahanai and Flute styles. It was astounding. Recently there was a
>review of a concert by Mohan Ayyar who played Carnatic music on keyboard.
In this connection I would like to mention that I once heard Asnam Sami Khan
perform Hindustani music on a modified keyboard or organ( as he would like
to call it). It has been the most amazing concert I have ever heard. He
has modified the instrument so well that he flawlessly plays the gamaks.
He was accompanied by Shafaat Ahmed Khan on Tabla.
If anyone has more details about his performances or recordings, please let me know.
Thanx
Paneesh
Pankaj Joshi
Jose Luiz Martines <jo...@elisir.helsinki.fi> wrote:
>In article <CqF7r...@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
>paj...@enuxsa.eas.asu.edu (Pankaj Joshi) writes:
>>
>
>That is one of the most interesting features of Indian
>music. But I wonder on a few questions (in the context of
>traditionally thought theory and practice):
I must say that I am crossing the boundary of whatever little I knew. I
hope more knowledgible netters will correct me and throw some more light.
>
>1. How rasa is connected with raga?
The rasa is evoked by the notes, phrases of the raga, by the way of
rendering those phrases. My guess is that to effectively evoke a
particular rasa among the aundience the performer has to evoke the same
within himself and then convey it in the language of music. The first
requirement demands tremendous sensitivity and the second demands a
command over the instrument or the voice. We get to hear many times about
a particular performer not having as much emotion as the other.
> >2. I've read some ragamala poems (reproduced miniature
>paintings and translated poems), making explicit some
>relation feeling/raga, but are there, nowadays, still any
>musical or structural relationship between a raga and its
>rasa, such as the absence of sa inducing instability?
I remember reading about Ragini Marwa as a beautiful lady waiting for her
beloved under the mango tree. Her emotions of pain of separation and
longing for reunion are often depicted in the performance of raga Marwa.
I too would like to know if there are more structural relationships
between a raga and a rasa.
>
>3. If so, how general and uniform are those relationships?
>I guess Hindustani, Karnatic traditions; gharanas; and
>particular performers; could have different ideas on which
>rasa each raga brings forth.
As I said in my previous posting a raga evokes a variety of rasas and
performers depending on their background and liking may choose to bring a
particular rasa in their raga more than the others. I have found that
female performers like Prabha Atre choose to bring forth shringar in most
of the ragas that they sing.
> >3. Is rasa conveyed by the performer? Let's say, can
>Malkauns Raga express roudra (anger)
>or bibhatsa (revulsion) depending on how performed?
The performer choses to express certain rasas and selects appropriate
phrases, tala etc. Yes Malkauns is capable of expressing all possible
emotions. It is particularly well suited to evoke love, devotion and
anger (war). It will be nice to make a list of various performances in a
raga each expressing a different rasa.
>4. Or is rasa rather result of the lyrics (vocal music)?
Not necessarily. When you talk about lyrics evoking rasas you switch the
art forms. Lyrics can definitely convey the rasa and they have their
way of expressing them. The music can convey it without lyrics but
lyrics can surely complement what music is trying to do.
>5. Do musical instruments express rasa?
Dont they? Isn't this the case with music in general?
>6. Has tala ever thought as rasa expressing music entity?
Yes. Percussion is capable of expressing rasas too.
>
>7. Finally, is rasa the listners atribution, based on
>personal experiences, or training?
To some extent yes. The listener has to be receptive to it. But it is not
uncommon to see that what evokes a particular rasa in one may not evoke
anything at all in the other. Listeners all differ in their sensitivity
and liking.
> >Hope Mataji Sarasvati (and Bharata as well)
help us! >
>Humbly desiring to know as well,
>Jose' Luiz Martinez
Pankaj