Raga Bageshree
KEDAR S NAPHADE
>Ajay P Nerurkar (a...@cs.buffalo.edu) wrote:
>
>: This is one of those instances where the swaroop of a raag changes over
>: time. In pedantic Bageshree, a Pancham is strictly verboten, but the phrase
>: D MPDg, with the MPD uttered in a hurry, has almost become a part of the
>: pakad in modern-day Bageshree.
>
>: Such is also the case with the teevra Madhyam in Bihag.
>
>
>: --
I guess one could also add the shuddha Gandhaar in Kedar to this .. I think all these quarelling is really a bit hypocritical ... most singers / instrumentalists use these notes... some of them rightly defend it, but others (and these are the stupid ones) are even unaware that they use them and criticise their usage .. the remainder who absolutely do not let touches of these notes creep into their recitals may be justified in their stand, but then those are the drab kind of artists ...
I agree with Rajan in his opinion that using G is very much essential to the beauty of Kedar ... I guess the same follows with the teevra madhyam in bihag and teh pancham in baageshrii.
- Kedar
Ajay P Nerurkar
: Ajay P Nerurkar (a...@cs.buffalo.edu) wrote:
: : This is one of those instances where the swaroop of a raag changes over
: : time. In pedantic Bageshree, a Pancham is strictly verboten, but the phrase
: : D MPDg, with the MPD uttered in a hurry, has almost become a part of the
: : pakad in modern-day Bageshree.
: : Such is also the case with the teevra Madhyam in Bihag.
: : --
: Could you please clarify what you mean when you say "modern"? I have
: heard old Dhrupad compositions in Bageshree with a Pa and learnt one in
: Bihag (composed by tansen) with a Ma.
: muthu
I meant that the use of these "foreign" swars has gradually increased and
they have now become indispensable in any performance of these raags. That is
not to say that these swars were completely absent in all performances and
compositions before a certain cut-off year. I have myself not heard a
Bageshree that shunned the Pa or a Bihag that excluded the teevra variety of
Ma. Look at Pt. Bhatkande's version of the chalan of Bageshree (as quoted by
N.A. Jairazbhoy in his book)
S 'n'D'nS Mg MDnS' S'nD Mg MgRS
As for Bihag, I refer you to Subbarao's Raganidhi, in which, if I recall
right, he has explicitly outlined this change in its nature.
--
Ajay
mu...@cip.physik.uni-dortmund.de
Rajan P. Parrikar
>Hi All.
>Kishori Amonkar has been criticised for using Pancham in raga Bageshree
>( which IMHO sounds Perfect ). In the teachings of Bhatkhande school of
>music (Prayag Sangeet Samiti Allahabad ) also, pancham is used in this raga,
>however, sparingly.
>Does anyone have an absolute opinion / comments on this?
There is no problem here. Bageshree without a pancham (and rishab)
is known as Audav Bageshree, which btw used to be called Chandrakauns
in the olden days (Today's C-kauns is, of course, different).
Rajan Parrikar
==============
email: parr...@mimicad.colorado.edu
Archana S. Prasad
Kishori Amonkar has been criticised for using Pancham in raga Bageshree
( which IMHO sounds Perfect ). In the teachings of Bhatkhande school of
music (Prayag Sangeet Samiti Allahabad ) also, pancham is used in this raga,
however, sparingly.
Does anyone have an absolute opinion / comments on this?
Thanks.
Archana.
Ajay P Nerurkar
: Kishori Amonkar has been criticised for using Pancham in raga Bageshree
: ( which IMHO sounds Perfect ). In the teachings of Bhatkhande school of
This is one of those instances where the swaroop of a raag changes over
time. In pedantic Bageshree, a Pancham is strictly verboten, but the phrase
D MPDg, with the MPD uttered in a hurry, has almost become a part of the
pakad in modern-day Bageshree.
Such is also the case with the teevra Madhyam in Bihag.
--
Ajay
Archana S. Prasad
>There is no problem here. Bageshree without a pancham (and rishab)
>is known as Audav Bageshree, which btw used to be called Chandrakauns
>in the olden days (Today's C-kauns is, of course, different).
Could you please post the names of all the variations of raga Bageshree?
Thanks.
Archana.
Archana S. Prasad
>mu...@cip.physik.uni-dortmund.de wrote:
>Ma. Look at Pt. Bhatkande's version of the chalan of Bageshree (as quoted by
>N.A. Jairazbhoy in his book)
> S 'n'D'nS Mg MDnS' S'nD Mg MgRS
>: : This is one of those instances where the swaroop of a raag changes over
>: : time. In pedantic Bageshree, a Pancham is strictly verboten, but the phrase
>: : D MPDg, with the MPD uttered in a hurry, has almost become a part of the
>: : pakad in modern-day Bageshree.
Here are some of my observations - I shall classify them according to the
Gharanas.
1. Pancham is not used in the aaroh, avroh or pakad in
pedantic raga Bageshree; pedantic as pertains to Pt. Bhatkhande's teachings.
The 'Swarmaalika' of the raga does not include a 'pa'. However, Pancham
is supposed to be a vivaadi swar, most commonly used in a combination
like:
Ma Pa Dha Ga
--
or even - Ma Pa Dha-Dha Ga
--
but quite honestly, I have never felt dependent on Pancham to explore raga
Bageshree.
2. Patiala Gharana is fairly close to Pt. Bhatkhande. Bade Ghulam Ali
Khan or Munnavar Khan do not make use of Pancham very obviouly. If they
did it was perhaps very subtle. Parveen Sultana, in jugalbandis with
Ustaad Dilshaad Khan has used Pancham as a vivaadi swar. I have never heard a
pancham in the aaroh or avroh, though there is a descending taan that caught
my attention which seems to be a very explicit:
.
Sa Ni Dha Pa Ma Ga Re Sa
--
3. Jaipur Gharaana seems to be a little less conservative in use of the
Pancham. Kishori Amonkar uses Pancham very frequently. She sings with
great ease and flow. The only bandish that I have heard in raga Bageshree
by Kishori Amonkar is:
Birhaa Naa Jalaa
If anyone has heard any other please let me know. Thanks in advance.
Surprisingly, I have not heard Pt. Jasraj sing raga Bageshree either. KA,
though does have a great voice, which has an emotional appeal.
Arati Ankalikar uses Pancham in her rendering of Raga Bageshree (which is fine
by me). However she does not make Kishori Amonkar very happy by claiming to be
a desciple of the latter..... :-) (is there politics in music!)
Lastly, all of the above is only an opinion of mine and I do not mean
any offense to anyone.
Thanks.
Archana.
Rajan P. Parrikar
>Could you please post the names of all the variations of raga Bageshree?
>Thanks.
>Archana.
This is just idle name-dropping but here are a few:
Bageshree-Kanada, Bageshree-Bahar, Bageshree-Hindol,
KaushiKanada (Bageshree ang), Malgunji, a certain
interpretation of Khambavati and so on.
SAMBARTA RAKSHIT
> If anyone has heard any other please let me know. Thanks in advance.
> Surprisingly, I have not heard Pt. Jasraj sing raga Bageshree either. KA,
> though does have a great voice, which has an emotional appeal.
>
> Thanks.
> Archana.
I have heard Pandit Jasraj sing Bageshree.The bandish based on
drut ektaal was " Apni garaj pakad lena bainya" .This was one of the
finest renditions I have heard in this raga.He frequently made use of
the pancham in the phrase Sa ga ma dha pa ni -dha ga ma re sa.
Sambarta
Joyoni Dey
> Thanks.
> Archana.
Abhogi seems very close to bageshree for one.
mu...@cip.physik.uni-dortmund.de
: Here are some of my observations - I shall classify them according to the
: Gharanas.
----
All this gave me a good excuse to listen again to 2 different recordings
of Amir Khan Saheb. Here are some quaint phrases involving Pancham that
he uses.
Dha Pa Dha ni Dha
Pa Dha Pa Dha Pa+Dha+ni+Dha
In this phrase he isnt feeling guilty about stressing the Pa. Maybe why he
repeats it :)
And in a Taan, Dha Pa Dha ni Dha ma ga ga ma
and so on.
He also uses ma ga Re- Re ga ma ga Re s Re s, which imho is dangerously
close to Abhogi. Of course he being what he is, gets away with it!
muthu
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
>
>>mu...@cip.physik.uni-dortmund.de wrote:
>
>>N.A. Jairazbhoy in his book)
>
>> S 'n'D'nS Mg MDnS' S'nD Mg MgRS
>
>>: : time. In pedantic Bageshree, a Pancham is strictly verboten, but the phrase
>>: : D MPDg, with the MPD uttered in a hurry, has almost become a part of the
>>: : pakad in modern-day Bageshree.
>
>Gharanas.
>
>
>Surprisingly, I have not heard Pt. Jasraj sing raga Bageshree either. KA,
>though does have a great voice, which has an emotional appeal.
>
Pandit Jasraj has recorded Bageshree for the 16-cassette MUSIC TODAY
series, in the NIGHT RAGAS category. The vilambit bandish is "Kaun Gat
Bhayee" in Ektaal, followed by "Apni Garaj Se Pakar Leeni Baiyyaan Mori"
in drut Ektaal. Though I listen selectively to Pandit Jasraj, I enjoy
his VOICE PRODUCTION tremendously and I enjoy his rendition of Bageshree
very much. Check it out, and see what you think.
Sanjeev Ramabhadran>