Raag Deepak -- Is it cursed?

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sha...@my-deja.com

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Sep 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/22/00
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I read, with great interest, how a rendering of Raag Deepak lit the
lamps, boiled the water, heated Mian Tansen for weeks, and what not.
Is there any element of truth in these? Could anyone point me to some
more reading materials on this enigmatic raag? , or, perhaps to a
rendering.

Thanks in advance

Rishi

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

naniwadekar

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Sep 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/22/00
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In article <8qgk1u$un8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

sha...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I read, with great interest, how a rendering of Raag Deepak lit the
> lamps, boiled the water, heated Mian Tansen for weeks, and what not.
> Is there any element of truth in these? Could anyone point me to some
> more reading materials on this enigmatic raag? , or, perhaps to a
> rendering.
>
I have not heard raag deepak. And yet I know that people whose
imagination served us these accounts were probably more enigmatic than
the raag can possibly be. People who believe in them are certainly more
enigmatic than the poor raag deepak and the story-tellers. Sceptics
like me are, like the raag itself, cursed. By believers.

I think there is a song in raag deepak in Sangeet Samrat Tansen (MD - S
N Tripathi).

Your post's subject is "Is raag deepak cursed?". But the body of your
email hints that the raag is merely enigmatic and hot hot hot, not
cursed. However you may have initiated an interesting thread. And
Rajan / Chetan / Sanjeev will hopefully tell us something about raag
deepak. If that happens, I will thank you in retrospect.

>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Rishi

In the context of the heat generated by raag deepak, probably I should
also sign off using the words "warm (or red hot) regards".

- nani (dhananjay naniwadekar)

Pradyut Shah

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Sep 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/22/00
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sha...@my-deja.com writes:

> I read, with great interest, how a rendering of Raag Deepak lit the
> lamps, boiled the water, heated Mian Tansen for weeks, and what not.
> Is there any element of truth in these?

Can cats fly? Do you still believe in witches?

Which century do you live in?

-- PS

Surinder P. Singh

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Sep 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/22/00
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I too have heard that Raaga Deepak is rarely discussed by Music
Ustads/Pandits. It seems to be cloaked in secrecy. Seems that those who know
it (and its arooh avroh, vaadi, samvaadi) rarely teach it openly and discuss
it openly. I could be wrong. It would be interesting to see what others
think.

-SS

sha...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8qgk1u$un8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...


>I read, with great interest, how a rendering of Raag Deepak lit the
>lamps, boiled the water, heated Mian Tansen for weeks, and what not.

>Is there any element of truth in these? Could anyone point me to some
>more reading materials on this enigmatic raag? , or, perhaps to a
>rendering.
>

>Thanks in advance
>
>Rishi

naniwadekar

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Sep 22, 2000, 8:01:41 PM9/22/00
to
In article <8qgk1u$un8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
sha...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I read, with great interest, how a rendering of Raag Deepak lit the
> lamps, boiled the water, heated Mian Tansen for weeks, and what not.
> Is there any element of truth in these? Could anyone point me to some
> more reading materials on this enigmatic raag? , or, perhaps to a
> rendering.
>
On second thoughts, you probably meant your subject to mean "does raag
deepak curse the singers and listeners" ? And "Hamlet is cursed" is
taken to mean that people associated with Hamlet somehow seem to get in
harm's way. So you are right there. But the connection was not
immediately obvious to poor me.
I think the film "Sangeet Samrat Tansen" shows Tansen afflicted after
singing raag Deepak. This heat is assuaged only by rain caused by raag
Megh / Mian ki malhar. So 2 sisters sing some Malhar and provide Tansen
with relief.

I can vouch for the fact that Malhar causes rain. I have to use a
switch to turn on the lights. But for rains, I always try Malhar.
Sometimes, it succeeds. Sometimes, it doesn't. But the Malhars I play
are by artistes of slightly lesser calibre than Tansen. Those who
succeed most often with rain are Pt Jasraj and Amjad Ali Khan.

- nani (dhananjay naniwadekar)

Nirgudkar

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Sep 22, 2000, 9:47:35 PM9/22/00
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Hi there !

It is indeed an interesting question that you have raised. I myself have
been wondering about RAGA DEEPAK and its mystical/enigmatic powers,
especially as depicted through the stories of the great Tansen.

I once asked a vocalist, Pandit Ganpati Bhat, about this raga, and his
explanation was as follows:

"Raga Deepak is such a powerful raga that it generates a great amount of
heat within the artist himself and the artist is thus unable to perform this
raga."

I would suppose that if this raga can create such radiant energy within the
performer, it seems plausible that the audience and the rest of the
surroundings would as well be affected by the raga's mystical powers.

After all, it has been scientifically proven that music (classical music in
particular) can have positive and beneficial effects on the human mind and
body. Also, certain ragas (Bilaskhadi Todi, Raga Marwa, Raga Yaman, etc.)
within our great Indian Classical Music tradition have been known to reduce
hypertension, blood pressure and other such health conditions.

I would be very much interested to learn more about Raga Deepak if anyone
has some other perspective or knowledge about this very "sacred" raga.

Thank you.


<sha...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8qgk1u$un8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...


> I read, with great interest, how a rendering of Raag Deepak lit the
> lamps, boiled the water, heated Mian Tansen for weeks, and what not.
> Is there any element of truth in these? Could anyone point me to some
> more reading materials on this enigmatic raag? , or, perhaps to a
> rendering.
>

> Thanks in advance
>
> Rishi

Dilip V. Sarwate

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Sep 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/23/00
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"Nirgudkar" <anir...@tampabay.rr.com> writes:

.....<material snipped>......

>After all, it has been scientifically proven that music (classical music in
>particular) can have positive and beneficial effects on the human mind and
>body. Also, certain ragas (Bilaskhadi Todi, Raga Marwa, Raga Yaman, etc.)
>within our great Indian Classical Music tradition have been known to reduce
>hypertension, blood pressure and other such health conditions.

It has also been shown that plants grow faster when exposed to a daily
dose of Raga Bageshri but I don't remember which artiste's rendition was
used.....

geez!

--
.-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-.
/ D \ I / L \ I / P \ / S \ A / R \ W / A \ T / E \
`-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-'

vimal aga

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Sep 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/23/00
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hi all:

i think you are all missing the point completely. raag deepak, as we know it
now, comes in different flavors (not to be confused with pradeepaki, a kaafi
thaat raag of the bhimpalasi ang that has some similarities with
hansakinkini of the dhanashri ang). bhatkhande lists two deepaks, one of
bilawal and the other of poorvi thaat origin. i also have a full length pvt
recording of pandit dinkar kaikini (courtesy lakshman ragade) singing raag
deepak of the khamaaj thaat. he jests in the begining of the presentation
that the raag will generate a lot of heat, but apparently the raag is not
"cursed" since dinkarji is still alive and well! and no living vocalist, i
think, can sing it better than he did.

that brings me to the real question: are any of these deepaks THE REAL
DEEPAKof mian tansen? pandit pran nath, disciple of the kirana doyen ustad
abdul wahid khan, made these interesting observations re: deepak:

"Despite the fact that Raga Dipak is listed as one of the six major ragas by
all scholars, there is no written or oral evidence of anyone having sung or
performed this raga after the time of Akbar's legendary court musician, Mian
Tansen. The accurate knowledge and art of performing this raga has been
literally lost since that time. The commission by the Pellizzi Foundation to
perform and record an archive of the Kirana style of Indian classical music,
including the six major ragas, provided me with the challenging opportunity
to make a presentation of this lost raga. My teacher, Ustad Abdul Wahid Khan
Sahib of Kirana, without doubt had the greatest knowledge of raga of any
musician during his and my lifetimes. As it was his feeling that Dipak was
actually Raga Yaman, I had the option of realizing Dipak in this way, even
though the scale given for Dipak in all of the old texts is not at all
similar to the scale for Raga Yaman. I started work on the project
considering these two scales in the light of my 52 years of practical
experience with ragas. However, not too long after the death of my revered
Swamiji, the late Sri Mahent Swami Narayan Giriji, I received a very
powerful inspiration for the raga in the setting of the old scale. This
inspiration came all at once in the middle of the night and included a
finished composition complete with sthayi and antara. The composition
includes the name of Sri Narayan which is both one of the names of God and
my Swamiji's name. Inasmuch as I could not be with him in India at the time
of his passing, I feel that this is his special blessing to me, and in turn
I offer this revival of Raga Dipak as a tribute to him."

unfortunately, i do not have a recording of panditji's inspired revival of
deepak, although his american "shishyas" (terry riley and ilk) may have it.
if anyone has that recording, i will be grateful if they could send me a
copy, and also, if possible, post it on RMIC.

vimal.


devd...@my-deja.com

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Sep 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/24/00
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In article <8qidp8$hts$1...@news.doit.wisc.edu>,

"vimal aga" <vm_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> hi all:
>
> i think you are all missing the point completely. raag deepak, as we
know it
> now, comes in different flavors (not to be confused with pradeepaki, a
kaafi
> thaat raag of the bhimpalasi ang that has some similarities with
> hansakinkini of the dhanashri ang). bhatkhande lists two deepaks, one
of
> bilawal and the other of poorvi thaat origin.

(snip)

> vimal.


In Karnatik padhathi there is a Krithi "Kalala Nerchina" in
raga Deepakam. Is there any relation between Karnatik Deepakam
and Hindustani Deepaks of various ang?

There is another raga Deepak-Kedar (bandish: "bhavan bhanwara
goonjat.."). Here, I think, the Kedar part acts as a cooling agent!

naniwadekar

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Sep 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/24/00
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In article <8qidp8$hts$1...@news.doit.wisc.edu>,
"vimal aga" <vm_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> hi all:
>
> bilawal and the other of poorvi thaat origin. i also have a full
length pvt
> recording of pandit dinkar kaikini (courtesy lakshman ragade) singing
raag
> deepak of the khamaaj thaat. he jests in the begining of the > vimal.
>
Vimal : Dinkar Kaikini is a scholarly but inconsistent and infuriating
performer. That is the impression I formed about him. There are many
such. Many of them are less well known than their knowledge warrants
because as performer, they either lack marketing savvy or have low
entertainment value as performers.

It is good to read a post by someone who has actually heard raag
deepak. Is it a raag that is deservedly forgotten? What do you feel?
Yaman, Bageshri, Todi, bhoop etc have held sway for centuries because
of their limitless potential. lalita gauri , jait kalyan and pat-bihag
are made famous by the great Jaipur clan. But they can't match the
power and appeal of aam raagas.

Now we know 2 RMIC people : you and Laxman Ragde, who have heard raag
deepak. Would you (both) say it is an anavat raag which is destined to
remain a lesser-known one. If you played, say, shudh nat for me, and
asked me the same Q, I would not be able to answer it if I knew nothing
else about the raag. But we observe around us and see that very few
sing shudh nat. And very few sing deepak. Generation of heat is I think
sentimental non-sense that music lovers are prone to. But do so few
singers sing it because it , like raag saraswati or raag charukeshi, it
lacks the appeal of a shree or a malkauns?

I also read that raags are in and out of fashion. Apparently, Durga was
very very popular 50 years ago. But later its popularity (again,
apparently, as this is not something I myself know about) sufferred.

- nani (dhananjay naniwadekar)

naniwadekar

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Sep 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/24/00
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In article <8qidp8$hts$1...@news.doit.wisc.edu>,
"vimal aga" <vm_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> hi all:
> deepak of the khamaaj thaat. he jests in the begining of the
presentation
> that the raag will generate a lot of heat, but apparently the raag is
not
> "cursed" since dinkarji is still alive and well! and no living
vocalist, i
> think, can sing it better than he did.
>
Though I have jested about raag deepak generating heat in another post,
if there are any aspects to this story which don't have to do with
blind beliefs, they would be most welcome. If Laxman Ragde knows any
anecdotes, please do let us know.

- nani (dhananjay naniwadekar)

Rajan P. Parrikar

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Sep 24, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/24/00
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devd...@my-deja.com writes:

>There is another raga Deepak-Kedar (bandish: "bhavan bhanwara
>goonjat.."). Here, I think, the Kedar part acts as a cooling agent!


There is no Raga Deepak in Deepak Kedar.

The bandish you have cited in the latter is due to
Jagannathbuwa Purohit "Gunidas" and the rAga itself
is most likely also his or that of his ustAd, Vilayat
Hussein Khan "Pranpiya." Raga Deepak Kedar is an
interesting variant on the parent Kedar where, in
the Arohi passages, it is the teevra madhyam that
we look to. To wit, S m, m P (m=teevra madhyam)
instead of the usual shuddha madhyam (S M, M (G)P...).

Warm regards,


r


Chidambaram Narayanan

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Sep 25, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/25/00
to
Not to be outdone by hindusthAnI, karnAtak has its own
heat-generating rAgam. :)
This time the story is with shrI tyAgarAjA. He sang in
the rAgam jyotiswarUpiNI and lit a lamp in the court of
some king at that time. The details escape me now.

Is there any similarity between this rAgam and the H-dIpak?

chidu...


devd...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> In article <8qidp8$hts$1...@news.doit.wisc.edu>,
> "vimal aga" <vm_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > hi all:
> >

> > i think you are all missing the point completely. raag deepak, as we
> know it
> > now, comes in different flavors (not to be confused with pradeepaki, a
> kaafi
> > thaat raag of the bhimpalasi ang that has some similarities with
> > hansakinkini of the dhanashri ang). bhatkhande lists two deepaks, one
> of

> > bilawal and the other of poorvi thaat origin.
>

> (snip)
>
> > vimal.
>
> In Karnatik padhathi there is a Krithi "Kalala Nerchina" in
> raga Deepakam. Is there any relation between Karnatik Deepakam
> and Hindustani Deepaks of various ang?
>

> There is another raga Deepak-Kedar (bandish: "bhavan bhanwara
> goonjat.."). Here, I think, the Kedar part acts as a cooling agent!
>

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

--
Chidambaram Narayanan
Institute fur Energietecknik
Clausiusstrasse 33
ETH Zentrum, CLT D4
CH-8092, Zurich
Off: +41(01)632-4601

devd...@my-deja.com

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Sep 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/26/00
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> Generation of heat is I
think
> sentimental non-sense that music lovers are prone to. But do so few
> singers sing it because it , like raag saraswati or raag charukeshi,
it
> lacks the appeal of a shree or a malkauns?
>

>
> - nani (dhananjay naniwadekar)


>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
>


Hey, Don't say that. Charukeshi is a beautiful Karnatik Raga.
IMO, it is best heard in gayaki style instrumental or vocal form,
especially the vocals by Amir Khan, Rashid Khan, KJY (Karnatik).
Also there are fine light classical renditions by Mewati people.

Regarding the generation of heat, what is heat? Isn't it a feeling?
Now can anything other than skin contact with a hot object trigger
the feeling of heat? If Deepak can generate this feeling, then
possibly there are other ragas too. Environmentally safe, money
saving, method for warming in winter!

naniwadekar

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Sep 26, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/26/00
to
In article <8qqks2$45b$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

devd...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Hey, Don't say that. Charukeshi is a beautiful Karnatik Raga.

Charukeshi is not so unknown a raag in hindustani style that you never
get to hear it. But it is fairly rare. If a person has attended 50 or
100 concerts, without getting to hear Charukeshi even once, that would
be no surprise at all.

When I say it is deservedly ignored, I only mean that I have not felt
the power of charukeshi. I don't think it is an accident. I have not
felt the power because the power is not there. A genius can always give
us a great piece even in an anavat raag. But the raag still remains
anavat. Usually for good reasons.

prachalit pieces like Todi, Bhairav, Yaman, Bageshri, etc are popular
because they are inexhaustible, and hold an appeal for singers and
listeners that has lasted for centuries. I am speaking about NorthICM
only.

Is Charukeshi very common among carnatic performers ?

- nani (dhananjay naniwadekar)

Ramakrishnan G

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Sep 28, 2000, 12:13:32 AM9/28/00
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Chidambaram Narayanan <ch...@iet.mavt.ethz.ch> wrote:
> Not to be outdone by hindusthAnI, karnAtak has its own
> heat-generating rAgam. :)
> This time the story is with shrI tyAgarAjA. He sang in
> the rAgam jyotiswarUpiNI and lit a lamp in the court of
> some king at that time. The details escape me now.
>
> Is there any similarity between this rAgam and the H-dIpak?
>
> chidu...
>

Not really.
jyotiswarUpiNI ( No 68 on the Melakarta) has the following
aarrohanam/avarohanam:

s r3 g3 m2 p d1 n2 s
s n2 d1 p m2 g3 r3 s


The king - if I am not mistaken- was Serboji III of Tanjore.

Regs
Ramakrishnan

w.ash...@gmail.com

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Apr 18, 2019, 9:16:44 AM4/18/19
to
Can you please share pandit dinkar kaikini raag deepak of the khamaaj thaa

Lakshman Ragde

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Apr 19, 2019, 3:28:50 PM4/19/19
to
On Friday, September 22, 2000 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, sha...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I read, with great interest, how a rendering of Raag Deepak lit the
> lamps, boiled the water, heated Mian Tansen for weeks, and what not.
> Is there any element of truth in these? Could anyone point me to some
> more reading materials on this enigmatic raag? , or, perhaps to a
> rendering.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Rishi
>
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

Dinkar Kaikini's rendition of Deepak raga is available here:

http://www.sangeethamshare.org/manjunath/HindhusthAni/005-pandith_dhinakar_kaikiNi-vocal-Ottava_CANADA-1981/

You need to register (for free) to access the file.

Abhijit M

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Jul 13, 2021, 10:35:37 AM7/13/21
to
Charukeshi in Carnatic music may not be as common as Todi, Yaman etc in Hindustani music, but more common than Charukeshi in Hindustani.
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