Pity! I like this song very much
shri kanekal
Moghubai abhorred film music and Western music. " Evdhe aishwarya
aapplyach ghari asthana kahshala dusryancha ushta-karkhada ka
patkarava (Why should we seek others's leftovers, when we have such a
treasure trove in our own house)?" she would ask.
When Kishori rendered the title song of Geet Gaya Patharon Ne, her
mother was livid. She resorted to a hunger strike for three days and
ate a morsel only after she extracted promise from Kishori that she
would never sing for films again.
Truly, the life of this gaantapaswini is a study in rare ambition,
sincere hardwork and gurubhakti.
The legendary Gangubai Hangal spoke to Leela Pawar
- shri
Praful Kelkar
....
> When Kishori rendered the title song of Geet Gaya Patharon Ne, her
> mother was livid. She resorted to a hunger strike for three days and
> ate a morsel only after she extracted promise from Kishori that she
> would never sing for films again.
There may be more to this story. A word on the streen then was that
the songs were great and apparently thretened the melody queen of
india, who apparently made sure that the records disppeared from the
market quickly. Knowing many other stories about such behaviors and
worse, it seems plaussible. Kishori and lata were friends upto that
point, but haven't spoken since apparently! Of course Kishori is the
greatest classical vocalist alive today and no one even comes close.
Knowing her intellegence she may have excelled in film singing as
well... or perhaps it may have been an unncessary distration.
-PK
Rajan P. Parrikar
rendered by Asha (tere kHayAloN meN hum) is superior
and must be considered among the finest film
compositions. This takes away nothing from Kishori's
number. The supremely gifted composer of these
masterpieces, Ramlal, passed away very recently,
consigned to obscurity and haunted by poverty
in his fading years.
Warm regards,
r
Rajan P. Parrikar
Music: Ramlal
Lyrics: Hasrat Jaipuri
Kishori Amonkar -
http://www.parrikar.org/misc/kishori_geetagaya.ram
Asha Bhonsle -
http://www.parrikar.org/misc/asha_terekhayalon.ram
Warm regards,
r
Ashok
>
>On a related note - the other song from the movie
>rendered by Asha (tere kHayAloN meN hum) is superior
>and must be considered among the finest film
>compositions. This takes away nothing from Kishori's
>number. The supremely gifted composer of these
>masterpieces, Ramlal, passed away very recently,
>consigned to obscurity and haunted by poverty
>in his fading years.
>
>Warm regards,
>
>
>r
All too true. In just two soundtracks for V. Shantaram,
Ramlal produced such gorgeous music; many among the
much-touted music directors haven't matched it in all
their life's work.
>praful...@yahoo.com (Praful Kelkar) writes:
>
>>kanek...@yahoo.com (shri kanekal) wrote in message
>>....
>>> When Kishori rendered the title song of Geet Gaya Patharon Ne, her
>>> mother was livid. She resorted to a hunger strike for three days and
>>> ate a morsel only after she extracted promise from Kishori that she
>>> would never sing for films again.
>>
>>
>>There may be more to this story. A word on the streen then was that
>>the songs were great and apparently thretened the melody queen of
>>india, who apparently made sure that the records disppeared from the
>>market quickly. Knowing many other stories about such behaviors and
>>worse, it seems plaussible. Kishori and lata were friends upto that
>>point, but haven't spoken since apparently! Of course Kishori is the
>>greatest classical vocalist alive today and no one even comes close.
>>Knowing her intellegence she may have excelled in film singing as
>>well... or perhaps it may have been an unncessary distration.
Kishori Amonkar has worked on film music since then. She composed
the music and sang in Govind Nehalani's 'Drishti', a 1990 film.
One memorable song is her duet with Raghunandan Panshikar:
"saawaniyaa sa.ndhyaa me.n", written by Vasant Dev.
Ashok
Rajan P. Parrikar
>
>In article <cckfk...@drn.newsguy.com>,
>mylas...@yaaahoooterrs.com says...
>>
>>On a related note - the other song from the movie
>>rendered by Asha (tere kHayAloN meN hum) is superior
>>and must be considered among the finest film
>>compositions. This takes away nothing from Kishori's
>>number. The supremely gifted composer of these
>>masterpieces, Ramlal, passed away very recently,
>>consigned to obscurity and haunted by poverty
>>in his fading years.
>>
>>Warm regards,
>>
>>
>>r
>
>All too true. In just two soundtracks for V. Shantaram,
>Ramlal produced such gorgeous music; many among the
>much-touted music directors haven't matched it in all
>their life's work.
From a Sept 2003 news item -
********
http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/web1/03sep08/national.htm#6
Musician of yesteryears faces his own music
MUMBAI, Sept 7: When Ramlal Choudhary gave music to the
Mohammed Rafi song ‘Takdeer Ka Phasana Gaakar Kisse
Sunaaen’(to whom should I tell my sorrowful fate) four
decades ago, little did he know that the words would
one day come back to haunt him in real life.
Today, at the age of 81, the former Bollywood music
director, who composed such hits as ‘Pankh Hoti To
Udd Jaati Re Rasiya O Zaalima’, does not know when
he would be able to eat his next meal.
Poverty has even forced his 65-year-old British-born
wife to find work.
"I am not asking for much. If the Government cannot
provide me two meals a day, I request it to provide
at least one meal," says a bitter Choudhary sitting
in an old cot in a tiny room which is his house in
Khetwadi area on the Grant Road.
Choudhary is angry that he is forgotten in the land
to which he gave the best of his life. "They distribute
awards every year and give financial help to artisans.
Is my contribution to music any lesser than theirs or
are they deaf that my music is not reaching their
ears?" asks Choudhary clad in a faded T-shirt and
lungi.
He and his wife Rita lives on the Rs 700 he receives
from the Maharashtra Government. Sometimes, royalty
comes from overseas, but this happens only occassionaly
and it is not sufficient to live comfortably. Rita was
forced to work part-time in a charity organisation. But
the amount she earns is meagre.
In his golden days, Chouhary used to smoke three packets
of cigarettes. But, today, he has to think twice before
even smoking a beedi. He lived in the posh Colaba in
South Mumbai in his hey days.
Choudhary composed songs for superhit films like ‘Sehara’,
‘Husnbaano’,‘Geet Gaaya Pattharon Ne’,‘Navarang’,‘Nakaabposh’
and ‘Naaglok’.
He came to Mumbai in 1944 and got a job in Prithviraj
Kapoor’s Prithivi Theatre Group as an assistant to music
director Ram Ganguly. With Ganguly, he played the flute
in ‘Dekh Chaand Ki Aor’ Sung by Shamshaad Begam and
Shailesh ‘Jindaa Hoon is Tarah Ki Ghame Zindagi’ sung
by Mukesh ‘Raat Ko Jo Chamake Taare’ sung by Shamshaad
Begam and Mukesh and ‘Kaahe Koyaliyaa Shor Machaae Re’,
sung by Shamshaad Begam.
As a full-fledged music director, he first landed with
producer P L Santoshi’s Raj Kapoor-Vaijayantimala starrer
‘Tangaawalla’ in 1950. He recorded six songs for this
film. Unfortunately, the movie was never released. In
between, he played continued to play the flute and
shehani in various films.
In 1952, he got a second chance as music director for
the Baal Hardeep produced film, ‘Husnbaano’. It was a
hit film and established Choudhary as a music director.
‘Yaa Nabeeb Salaam Lai Jaa’ and ‘Pyaar Karane Ka Ayaa
Jamaana’ became hit songs.
Then came producer-director V Shantaram’s ‘Sehara’. It
was a superhit film. ‘Pankh Hoti to Udd Jaati Re O Rasiya
Jaalimaa’ sung by none other than Lata Mangeshkar,
‘Takdeer Ka Phasaana Jaakar Kise Sunaaen’ sung by Mohammad
Rafi, ‘Tum To Pyaar Ho Sajana’ rendered by Mohammad Rafi
and Lata and other songs brought Choudhary international
fame.
One more feather was added to his cap with V Shantaram’s
‘Geet Gaaya Pattharon Ne’ released in 1965. Mr Choudhary
recorded ‘Tere Khayalo Mein Hum’ sung by Asha Bhosale,
‘Saanson Ke Taar Par’ and ‘Dhadakan Ki Taal Par’ sung by
Asha Bhosale and Mahendra Kapoor were all popular numbers
of those days.
Thereafter, the singer of yesteryears says, he found
himself out of the industry due to the machinations of
some powerful music directors and renowned producers.
He, then, decided to produce his own film. With a partner,
Charles, he started the film, ‘Tyagi’ under the banner,
‘Panna pictures.’ but after some time, the partner left
him stranded. Choudhary lost about Rs 60,000 in the
project and a whisper campaign started in the industry
that as producer, Choudhary could not do justice to
his films. He got no more films.
Choudhary has to his credit, playing Shehnai in ‘Aag’,
‘Mughal- e-Aajam’ and ‘Navrang’. In ‘Sehara’, Santoor
exponent Pandit Shivkumar Sharma and in ‘Geet Gaaya
Pattharon Ne’- flute maestro Pandit Hariprasad Chourasiya
worked under him. Laxmikant Pyarelal have worked with
him as assistants in ‘Maaya Macchinder’. Kalyanji Ananadji
also worked with him in ‘Naaglok’ under his direction.
Many prominent singers like Lata, Asha, Usha Mangeshkar,
Mohammad Rafi, Suman Kalyanpur, Kishori Amonkar,
S P Balsubrahmaniam, K J Yesudas and Hemant Kumar
have sung under his direction.
Choudhary, who stopped getting work five years ago,
is now left to humming his own tune, ‘Takdeer Ka
Phasana Gaakar Kisse Sunaaen.’ (UNI)
***********
The composer for NAVRANG was C. Ramchandra, not Ramlal.
Warm regards,
r
shri kanekal
couldnt agree with you more. The dance (by rajshri) for
tere kHayAloN meN hum is superb
as well. Sorry to hear about Ramlal.
cheers
shri
Rajan P. Parrikar <mylas...@yaaahoooterrs.com> wrote in message news:<cckfk...@drn.newsguy.com>...
vidushak
shows her kamaal.....enjoy.
Between the two song links posted i definitely rate asha bhonsale's
song 'tere khalayon mein' higher....her aawaaz is just kamaal.
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/l/02010001
click on gazals...asha bhonsale....miraj-e-gazal.
Rajan P. Parrikar <mylas...@yaaahoooterrs.com> wrote in message news:<cckkn...@drn.newsguy.com>...
Praful Kelkar
> Miraj-e-gazal is one album composed by ghulam ali where asha bhonsale
> shows her kamaal.....enjoy.
The music is moderately intersting. Mostly consist of 'light-weight'
gazals - some would only be best called as songs rather than gazals.
In places you can see clear signature of Ghulam Ali. Ghulam Ali's
greatness of the past is lacking in these compositions.
Ashaji's voice is superb and singing great in general (film songs,
marathi bhavagita, etc) - but she doesn't have the proper 'flow' for
gazal singing - she is singing 'songs' and that difference becomes
obvious when she and Ghulam Ali sing together.
The same problem occurs when the greatest light singers Lata and Asha
dabble in other genre of music - esp with "classical" attempts. They
are the greatest in singing songs - but then they also turn the
bandishes into songs. They do not show the appropriate flow that only
comes after years of taalim in classical vocal. Same thing happens
with Mohamad Rafi and Manna Dey. That is not to say that the songs
are not great, they are, but just that they are not truly "classical".
I like them as they are imensely, and yet am aware of the difference.
Take Ashaji' experiment with AAK's sarod for example - the alap in
desh-malhar clearly proves my point. Also take older "classical" film
songs and compare them to the real bandishes and you will at once hear
the difference.
-PK
naniwadekar
"Praful Kelkar" <praful...@yahoo.com> wrote -
>
> The same problem occurs when the greatest light singers Lata and Asha
> dabble in other genre of music - esp with "classical" attempts. They
> are the greatest in singing songs - but then they also turn the
> bandishes into songs. They do not show the appropriate flow that only
> comes after years of taalim in classical vocal. Same thing happens
> with Mohamad Rafi and Manna Dey. That is not to say that the songs
> are not great, they are, but just that they are not truly "classical".
> I like them as they are imensely, and yet am aware of the difference.
>
People in light music field always stress that you should not
look for khayal-type treatment in songs. You, too, would
have us know that you like songs qua songs. What sense
does it make, then, to stress that a song is not the same as
a khayal. Of course it isn't.
- dn
xss
>
> The same problem occurs when the greatest light singers Lata and Asha
> dabble in other genre of music - esp with "classical" attempts. They
> are the greatest in singing songs - but then they also turn the
> bandishes into songs. They do not show the appropriate flow that only
> comes after years of taalim in classical vocal. Same thing happens
> with Mohamad Rafi and Manna Dey. That is not to say that the songs
> are not great, they are, but just that they are not truly "classical".
> I like them as they are imensely, and yet am aware of the difference.
I don't think Asha's song in Geet Gaya is superior to
Kishori's. In fact, I don't find that particular Asha
song to be particularly appealing.
In a concert I attended recently, the (classical) singer sang
a bit of a film song to indicate that the raag (Pahaadi) was
commonly used in film sangeet. I was struck by how much more
beautiful it sounded than the original (by Lata).
I think an immediate and vast improvement to many film songs
can be made by singing them in lower registers than what our
film singers employ. I think it would be a terrific idea to
get some old film songs recorded by classical artists.
s.
Praful Kelkar
> People in light music field always stress that you should not
> look for khayal-type treatment in songs. You, too, would
> have us know that you like songs qua songs. What sense
> does it make, then, to stress that a song is not the same as
> a khayal. Of course it isn't.
That is the point. A while ago there were discussions about how
wonderful Lata's singing of khayal bandishes has been (as heard in the
classical film songs & and that she should record real khayal
bandishes), which I completely disagree with - she is a great singer
with a great voice, but does not have the proper flow for the
bandishes. The small alap phrases, layakari, etc also clearly
indicate lack of pakka classical taalim. Same thing I notice with
Asha's gazals.
-PK
naniwadekar
"Ashok" wrote -
>
> >
> >On a related note - the other song from the movie
> >rendered by Asha (tere kHayAloN meN hum) is superior
> >and must be considered among the finest film
> >compositions. This takes away nothing from Kishori's
> >number. The supremely gifted composer of these
> >masterpieces, Ramlal, passed away very recently,
> >consigned to obscurity and haunted by poverty
> >in his fading years.
> >
>
> Ramlal produced such gorgeous music; many among the
> much-touted music directors haven't matched it in all
> their life's work.
>
Which much-touted MDs did Ramlal surpass in just
two soundtracks for V Shantaram?
Ramlal is more an rmim topic than rmic, but though he and
some of his contemporaries (like Ravi) were really a very
talented lot, their output in 1960s was so poor compared
to the true greats whom they had replaced in the film
industry that I find Rajan's and your adulatory attitude
towards them quite out of character. To me, their approach
was functional in a bleak manner. I can't prove it but I suspect
temparamentally they were happy so long as they produced
acceptable music. Acceptability, rather than deep aesthetic
conviction, became the mantra. The dip in standards in 1970s
and 1980s didn't just happen by accident. The decade before
had paved the way in each case. If these people had been
pushed a little more, within and without, they would have
produced better music. Shankar-Jaikishan are a case in
point. They are justifiably castigated for cheapening film music
from late 1950s onwards but just think of the great soundtracks
they produced in their earliest years when people they worked
with were used to the standards established by Borals and
Khemchands. Of course SJ must have been deeply conscious
of what heights their peers were scaling. It helped to drive
them to what they were capable of. Once they became blase,
the general lackadaisical approach paved the road to film
music's descent.
- dn
naniwadekar
"Praful Kelkar" wrote -
>
> That is the point. A while ago there were discussions about how
> wonderful Lata's singing of khayal bandishes has been (as heard in the
> classical film songs & and that she should record real khayal
> bandishes), which I completely disagree with - she is a great singer
> with a great voice, but does not have the proper flow for the
> bandishes. The small alap phrases, layakari, etc also clearly
> indicate lack of pakka classical taalim. Same thing I notice with
> Asha's gazals.
>
Girls in their teens learn classical music for a couple of
years and present khayal with reasonable reproduction
of khayal mannerisms. Lata did not bother with it because
khayal was not her aim. If she had put her mind to it,
she could have easily produced the mannerisms (after
all even teenaged girls manage it easily) and
added her own strengths when recording bandishes.
But she never had the time to hone her skills in
that area.
I don't know what fault you find in her alap. Even seasoned
classical singers take delight in her singing and are not
known to find any fault in her. In fact, she is held forth
as a byword for shruti-shuddhata. Her sense of laya(kari)
is unmatched. Check Pu La Deshpande's article on her
in his book 'Gun Gaaiin Aavadii'. You might wish to check
the hypnotic manner in which she blurts out 'o Babuji'
in 'laarelappa' song in film 'Ek Thi Ladki'. Her throw
of words gels so beautifully with flow of the song. But
for Lata at her best, you must catch her in pre-1956 years.
1956-1965, she was still great but the decline had set in.
Post 1965, the quality of her output (shall we say) varies.
In fact, a friend of mine told me that no classical singer
can evoke Yaman (to take an example) so beautifully
by just doing its aaroh-avaroh. Rajan's sawf article has
also praised her as the supreme exemplar of Yaman.
Your unease is more due to your habits than Lata's.
- dn
Manohar Bodas
Almost every one was surprised to hear Kishori in Geet Gaya. It was a
flop. Kishori has said many times no more films.
If you have heard the Bhajan in Likin perhaps you will notice some
Kishori touch. I have thel ive recording of her singing the same
Bhajan. HM has copied it including the Theka. May be one day we can
hear it on live Chat.
The reason for Mangeshkars and Kishori's problems had different
reasons. This must have happened in 70s. May be Hridaynath can
explain. I had one redcording in which Ashajee was rediculing Kishori.
I think it was about the way sings Bilaskhani Todi.
MB
naniwadekar
"Manohar Bodas" <bod...@yahoo.com> wrote -
>
> The reason for Mangeshkars and Kishori's problems
> had different reasons.
>
Beautiful post, Manee-meow. Unlike your other posts,
your latest effort isn't even worth laughing at.
- dn
Manohar Bodas
> praful...@yahoo.com (Praful Kelkar) wrote in message news:<fb5417fe.04070...@posting.google.com>...
> > kanek...@yahoo.com (shri kanekal) wrote in message
Oh Piggy baby Dhenubaba is still reading. I thought he declared
something else last time. But not surprised. That is what he is,
MB
Ajit
> Kishori touch. I have thel ive recording of her singing the same
> Bhajan. HM has copied it including the Theka. May be one day we can
> hear it on live Chat.
>
Which bhajan in Lekin are you talking about?
Manohar Bodas
> bod...@yahoo.com (Manohar Bodas) wrote in message
Kee jo Mhari Madad Mhari o Mhara......
MB
If you have heard the Bhajan in Likin perhaps you will notice some
> > Kishori touch. I have the live recording of her singing the same
Praful Kelkar
> Girls in their teens learn classical music for a couple of
> years and present khayal with reasonable reproduction
> of khayal mannerisms. Lata did not bother with it because
> khayal was not her aim. If she had put her mind to it,
> she could have easily produced the mannerisms (after
> all even teenaged girls manage it easily) and
> added her own strengths when recording bandishes.
> But she never had the time to hone her skills in
> that area.
Firstly that is a strange statement.. anyone who has studied this
music with any seriousness will realize that the "reasonable
reproduction of khayal mannerisms" doesn't come without hard work.
Secondly, leave those girls you speak of aside, one should have higher
standards and compare Lata's attempted singing of bandishes to
Kishori, Amir Khan and such. Then one can see how "UthaL" she sounds.
Swar-ucchar just isn't upto par, in terms of raagdaari. The voice is
the greatest and intonation amazing but that is not the same.
Of course she is great (or the greatest) when it comes to songs. Her
pure beautiful voice can make one get goosebumps or can make one cry
easily. But that is a different attribute.
I am not denying the possibilties - yes michael jordon could have been
a great baseball player - perhaps not - didn't he try a crak at it?
Next he can try synchronized swimming!
PuLa was appreciated Lata's greatness which is good. He said at Sawai
once, "Bhimsenjincha motha Sa ani Latacha chota Sa" both are great.
That is a fair statement.
-PK
Praful Kelkar
> years and present khayal with reasonable reproduction
> of khayal mannerisms. Lata did not bother with it because
> khayal was not her aim. If she had put her mind to it,
> she could have easily produced the mannerisms (after
> all even teenaged girls manage it easily) and
> added her own strengths when recording bandishes.
> But she never had the time to hone her skills in
> that area.
Firstly that is a strange comment - "reasonable" reproduction of
khayal mannerisms takes years of hard work - anyone who has actually
studied would agree. Secondly, the girls you speak of are not what i
would like to compare lata's attempted rendition of bandishes. Given
her greatness one should compare with Kishori, Amir Khan and such ....
then you quickly realize how "UthaL" she sounds.
I am not denying her greatness in singing songs - she is indeed
supreme!! Nor am I denying the possibilities - yes michael jordon
could have been a great baseball player - didn't he take a crack at
it? next he can try synchronized swimming!
PuLa was appreciating Lata's greatness, with many aspects of it. He
did not indicated that one should turn to her recordings to learn
bandishes - that would be immature. The way he put it "bhimsenjin cha
motha SA and Latacha chota SA both are great ...." - he said this
during his speach at Sawai .. and that is a fair statement.
-PK
Manohar Bodas
Yes she did music for Drishti which was not very successful. She has
again stated: No more Films. She may change her mind again.
Again Drusti came around same time Lekin came out.
MB
In article <cckfk...@drn.newsguy.com>, mylas...@yaaahoooterrs.com
says...
>>>