Pandit and Ustad titles
Asha
Thanks
-Asha
C Parthapratim
When he is recognised both as performer AND theoretician.
Simon
As an American beginner/intermediate student of HCM, I don't have
nearly the expertise of other group members, but I am interested in
this question. It appears to me that these titles are often self-
adopted by musicians are not seen to merit them in India, for the
purpose of promoting themselves to Westerners who may not be able to
distinguish masters from hacks. I would add that from what I can
tell, these titles are almost never applied to anyone under the age of
approximately 35, regardless of their level of achievement.
Imnot Apadmashri
> When does an artist start being called a pandit or ustad?
On Dec 13, 1:29 am, C Parthapratim <c.parthapra...@gmail.com> gave the
short and straight answer:
> When he is recognised both as performer AND theoretician.
On Dec 12, 3:10 pm, Simon <stac...@gmail.com> commented:
> these titles are almost never applied to anyone under the age of
> approximately 35, regardless of their level of achievement.
To the best of my knowledge, the only one who allowed himself to be
called Pandit _in India_ at around 35 is Sanjeev Abhyankar. Others
have waited a lot longer. In US, as Simon observes, it is just a
question of creating a website.
I also know just one case of a formal ceremony to award the title - to
Hridaynath/Hrudaynath Mangeshkar. Mostly it is just people informally
starting to call one that.
Those in CCM prefer "Vidwan" (fem: "Vidushi").
"Ustad" means teacher in Urdu. (Pandit and Vidwan are Sanskrit terms
meaning learned/knowledgeable.) When others decide to use the
titles, usually a Hindu musician is called Pandit and a Muslim,
Ustad.
The female forms are rarer in HCM - one hears of a Pandita far less
often, and I have never heard "Ustani". However, "Vidwan" and
"Vidushi" are equally common in CCM.
DG
Vishwaroopa Sharma
It is a decoration mainly used and popularised by AIR for its 'top'
graded artistes.
In the olden days these titles were used as the mark of the respect.
Some of the similar titles were (are) Marhoom, Khansahib, Baba,
Acharya, Vidvan, Nayak, etc.
There is no qualifier for the titles as it is an abstract art. More
reasonably when a musician attains an overall reverence for his art,
it might then be reasonable to use such decorations. A serious art
lover may not like to comment on trite of the titles.
~
VS
Abubakr
Ideally, when his peers (i.e. already established ustads and pandits)
deem him worthy of such an honorific and they start addressing him
with it.
Vishwaroopa Sharma
> often, and I have never heard "Ustani".
AIR (DD too) uses "vidushi" for top graded female artistes of HCM.
Like: Vidushi Ashwini Bhide Deshpande, Vidushi N Rajam.
The muslim top graded female musicians are usually called "Begum".
Like: Begum Parween Sultana.
"Panditaa" is an asaadhu word in sanskrit.
Asha
What about "Gaan-Tapasvini" Mogubai Kurdikar, "Surashree" Kesarabai
Kerkar, "Gaan Saraswati" Kishori Amonkar; are these conferred/awarded
titles or honorary titles?
-Asha
Abhay
(snip)
> In the olden days these titles were used as the mark of the respect.
> Some of the similar titles were (are) Marhoom, Khansahib, Baba,
> Acharya, Vidvan, Nayak, etc.
"Marhoom" is not an honorific; it simply means that the person is no
more. It is the Urdu equivalent of the English prefix "the late" when
referring to a deceased person.
Warm regards,
Abhay
gopher
> To the best of my knowledge, the only one who allowed himself to be
> called Pandit _in India_ at around 35 is Sanjeev Abhyankar. Others
> have waited a lot longer. In US, as Simon observes, it is just a
> question of creating a website.
What does 'allowed himself...' mean?
And here you go, Ustad Rashid Khan - age 31:
http://www.ustadrashidkhan.com/images/pages/hindu97.jpg
Vishwaroopa Sharma
> Kerkar, "Gaan Saraswati" Kishori Amonkar; are these conferred/awarded
> titles or honorary titles?
I'll say they are the titles conferred in honour. The title
'Surashree' has been conferred on Kesarbai in 1948 by the Sangeet
Pravin Sangitanuragi Sajjan Saman Samiti of then Calcutta (now
Kolkata). [refer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surashri_Kesarbai_Kerkar]
I've been told that Ravindranath Tagore has chosen this title.
Similarly Maharajah of Mysore has conferred the title 'aftab-e-
mausiqi' to Ustad Faiyaz Khan.
Vishwaroopa Sharma
> more. It is the Urdu equivalent of the English prefix "the late" when
> referring to a deceased person.
OMG!
Thanks for the correction, abhay.
~
VS
Warren
I would hardly describe Pandit Bhimsen Joshi as a "theoretician."
A moment's reflection will yield the names of many artists to whom
those honorifics were applied, regardless of their lack of music
theory
credentials.
WS
C Parthapratim
And so I tried to underline that. In most (modern) cases, it is just a
misused and decorative word. Better not to attach any significance to
it.
Vishwaroopa Sharma
> often, and I have never heard "Ustani". However, "Vidwan" and
> "Vidushi" are equally common in CCM.
>
> DG
Dear DG,
I confess. I was wrong. The word "Panditaa" can well be used. Its
absence from the dictionary (Monier Williams and Shabdartha Kaustubha
in my case) compelled me to comment so. I did realise its authenticity
when I talked to a veteran grammarian.
Regards,
VS