Pt. Bhimsen Joshi and I
Abhik Majumdar
should reach a wider audience, I'm venturing to post it on this
newsgroup. Reactions solicited.
First, some mild self-aggrandisement. My book on Pt. Bhimsen Joshi
recently got published. It is a part of the Charitavali Series brought
out by Rupa & Co. The reason I mention it is that it has everything to
do with the events narrated below.
In the course of writing this book, I had interviewed Mr. Amar Mishra,
who was instrumental in setting up the ITC Sangeet Research Academy,
also a close personal friend of Panditji. When I heard that Bhimsen
was scheduled to sing at the ITC Sammelan in New Delhi this year, I
contacted Mr. Mishra to find out if I could get to meet him.
Anyway, on the day of the recital, he and I made our way to the green
room. Panditji arrived a few minutes later, a frail, shrivelled man
with a woollen cap on his head and an air of extreme dejection and
bewilderment about him. He was shunted onto a wheelchair and pushed
into the green room.
Mr. Mishra was busy talking to his other acquaintances, so I went
inside, introduced myself to Sh. Srinivas Joshi, Panditji's son, and
showed him a copy of the book. His interest grew when he saw the Rupa
label, then he passed it on to his father. I asked him if Panditji
could autograph my copy, but he declined, saying his father suffered
from weakness in the limbs.
That is when Mr. Mishra came in, and introduced me to Panditji. This
turned the conversation back to the book for a little while. As we
were taking our leave, I once again asked Srinivasji if an autograph
was absloutely out of the question. He told me to accompany Mr. Mishra
the next day (he'd been given an appointent earlier), because if
Panditji signed one autograph, others would immediately pile on.
The recital blew our minds away. Whe he started, he could hardly get
any sound out of his throat. It took him about ten minutes to fully
warm up. But once he did he was roaring like a lion just the way he
used to twenty years ago. He started with Pooriya Kalyan. Vintage
Bhimsen every inch.
His age showed only rarely, such as when he mistimed the 'sam' a
couple of times (will confim this
when I listen to the recording). Anand Gopal Bandyopadhyaya on hte
tabla was very understanding, and skillfully covered up such rare
lapses.
His heavy gamak taans were right there in place, as were all his old
tricks, pukars, surprisingly accurate laykari (except for the few
miscueings), voice modulations etc. But what really moved all of us in
the audience was that he took just as much pleasure in his singing as
he did in his prime.
The Khayal was followed by a Dadra in Mishra Gara, and then "Jo Bhaje
Hari Ko Sada" in Bhairavi.
The next morning Mr. Mishra and I set off for the Maurya Sheraton,
where Panditji was dossed up. The receptionist first refused to give
us his room number (citing security reasons) and then, when we
explained we had an appointment, refused to let us enter because there
was a do-not-disturb
sign on his door.
We were about to leave in dejection, when I spotted Pt. Ulhas
Kashalkar entering the hotel, accompanied by Sh. Madhup Mudgal. I
naturally rushed to touch his feet. He recognised Mr. Mishra and asked
him if he could help. Made abreast of the situation, he promptly
invited us to his room. So the four of us, Mr. Mishra and MM on the
two armchairs, me on the chair by the desk, and UK on the bed, chatted
on for the better part of an hour. By this time I had host hope of
getting it autographed by Bhimsen, so I requested UK to sign it
instead. He initially demurred, saying he couldn't sign it begore
Bhimsen. I mollified him by saying if I got to meet him in the evening
(there was a chance left) I'd get another copy for him to sign. He
then cheerfully scrawled his name on the flyleaf, and so did MM.
At this point both MM and UK decided to meet Bhimsen, so we all pushed
off to his room. Luckily the sign had been removed, so we went in. A
few more people were present. Joshi chatted for fifteen minutes, then
excused himself, saying he was tired. I went to his son and reminded
him of his promised. He forst asked me to come at four o'clock and
then, when I said I wouldn't be able to, sugested I leave it be. My
face dropped, so he took pity on me and asked me to request the big
man himself. Panditji's response was, "My hands are very weak, so I
can only promise to try. Let's
have a go!" And he did sign!
I then turned to UK and then said I'd brought a camera but didn't have
the nerve to take pics as Panditji was tired. He said no no, no
problem at all, come along. So I made him stand next to Panditji and
took a snap of them together. Promptly, Mr. Mishra, MM and some of the
other people present there came up and requested snaps. Someone took
pity on me and snapped one of mine with Joshi. We left after that.
What a day!
Abhik
abhik.majumdar at b i g f o o t dot c o m (remove extra spaces)
Warren Senders
>His age showed only rarely, such as when he mistimed the 'sam' a
>couple of times (will confim this
>when I listen to the recording). Anand Gopal Bandyopadhyaya on hte
>tabla was very understanding, and skillfully covered up such rare
>lapses.
Mistiming of the sam is hardly an indicator of age; I have
dozens of Bhimsen's vilambit khyals in which he misses
the sam and never bats an eyelash -- it's just not much of
a priority for him and never has been. It's nice to hear the
Master is still in voice.
WS
Abhik Majumdar
Shukriya, huzoor!
>Mistiming of the sam is hardly an indicator of age; I have
>dozens of Bhimsen's vilambit khyals in which he misses
>the sam and never bats an eyelash
I guess you're right.
>It's nice to hear the
>Master is still in voice.
Oh yes. More than that, his spirit remains unbroken, especially when
he sings. Age indeed does not wither him, nor custom stale his
infinite variety.
Chetan Vinchhi
"Abhik Majumdar" <a.maj...@mailinator.com> wrote...
>
> First, some mild self-aggrandisement. My book on Pt. Bhimsen Joshi
> recently got published.
Congratulations! And thanks for sharing your experience with us. Do
tell us more about the book.
> His age showed only rarely, such as when he mistimed the 'sam' a
> couple of times (will confim this
> when I listen to the recording).
This is not unusual for Bhimsen at any age. Aamad and the precision
of sam placement were never his strong points.
> Anand Gopal Bandyopadhyaya on hte
> tabla was very understanding, and skillfully covered up such rare
> lapses.
"Covering up" to a significant degree is (or should be) looked
down upon so the epithet "skillful" is inapt to describe such an
action (even if it requires a certian kind of skill!). When such
lapses do happen, there are graceful ways of handling the situation
without resorting to subterfuge.
> His heavy gamak taans were right there in place, as were all his old
> tricks, pukars, surprisingly accurate laykari (except for the few
> miscueings), voice modulations etc.
I can totally believe most of the above description (I had heard him
sing at the Gunidas Sammelan 2001 in Mumbai and he was in good
form there as well). However, the laykari part is confounding. His
handling of laya is perhaps the weakest aspect of his gayaki. He
does achieve a degree of comfort with laya when he sings in
jhaptaal (e.g. his Abhogi recording) but for the most part the taal
just happens to be there.
<rest of the very interesting account deleted>
Perhaps you could put up some of those pictures on a wesite.
C
Ashok
>
>First, some mild self-aggrandisement. My book on Pt. Bhimsen Joshi
>recently got published. It is a part of the Charitavali Series brought
>out by Rupa & Co. The reason I mention it is that it has everything to
>do with the events narrated below.
Thanks for a very engaging write-up. I was happy to get a copy of
your book in the Rupa stall at the Kolkata Book Fair.
>The recital blew our minds away. Whe he started, he could hardly get
>any sound out of his throat. It took him about ten minutes to fully
>warm up. But once he did he was roaring like a lion just the way he
>used to twenty years ago. He started with Pooriya Kalyan. Vintage
>Bhimsen every inch.
>
>His age showed only rarely, such as when he mistimed the 'sam' a
>couple of times (will confim this
>when I listen to the recording). Anand Gopal Bandyopadhyaya on hte
>tabla was very understanding, and skillfully covered up such rare
>lapses.
>
>His heavy gamak taans were right there in place, as were all his old
>tricks, pukars, surprisingly accurate laykari (except for the few
>miscueings), voice modulations etc. But what really moved all of us in
>the audience was that he took just as much pleasure in his singing as
>he did in his prime.
>
>The Khayal was followed by a Dadra in Mishra Gara, and then "Jo Bhaje
>Hari Ko Sada" in Bhairavi.
My impressions of his performance (as the final artist of the event
at the Dover Lane concert) past month are very similar. This was the
only time I had had the opportunity to listen to him live. He could
not walk without help. When he had to change his sitting posture,
he had to be lifted up. But all doubts as to how a person in his
state of health could sing, vanished once he hummed to himself
for a minute. Once he started singing, the time-travel effect
was complete: I could very well be listening to him half a century
earlier.
He sang a khayal in Asawari Todi. He ended the concert with the
same Bhairavi piece ("jo bhaje harii ko sadaa"). For me the
transporting event was the Jogiya piece he sang in the middle:
"piyaa ke milan kii aas". What an emotionally rich interpretation
it was!
Srinivas Joshi provided vocal support. I had also taken in a
concert by him the previous evening. I was a bit surprised by--
both on looking at him and listening to him. He looks much too
young to be Bhimsen Joshi's son! His voice is also still
immature and in terms of voice carrying a sense of authority,
he is just the reverse of his father.
Ashok
PS: One aspect of audience behaviour puzzles me. In what is
supposed to be a learned audience, how come there were people
who, after listening to the artist sing Bhairavi, still pester
the artist for "more"? Bhimsen Joshi had to loudly announce
"No more songs"!
naniwadekar
"Abhik Majumdar" wrote -
>
> The recital blew our minds away. Whe he started, he could hardly get
> any sound out of his throat. It took him about ten minutes to fully
> warm up. But once he did he was roaring like a lion just the way he
> used to twenty years ago. He started with Pooriya Kalyan. Vintage
> Bhimsen every inch.
>
I heard Bhimsen 20 to 25 times from 1986 to 1989.
Collectively, his mehfils were at best mediocre and
at worst a disgrace. "Roaring" (to gullible audiences),
as against singing, would be an apt description. I gave
him so many chances only because I knew what a great
artiste he had been. It wasn't just me. Some friends could
never resist the temptation of a Bhimsen concert and
kept going long after I stopped. I rarely, if ever, heard
enthusiastic reaction. I did hear 5-6 great raags from him
during that span but for most part, he wasn't even trying.
It was clearly the post-menopausal stage of his career.
But the newspaper reviews had continued to be slavish.
During the same time-span, Mallikarjun Mansur, more
than a decade older, was still singing at a level one had
no business to expect from someone his age.
One artiste who accompanied Bhimsen a couple of times 3-4
years ago told me that BJ could still manage to roll
back years for 10-15 minutes in every concert; we weren't
lucky even to this limited extent in the 1980s. (Actually his
feedback was even more effusive than that but it came with
some riders.) Unless the old flame has flickered to improbably
splendid life before it dies out, I find it difficult to trust
this endorsement of Bhimsen's singing.
- dn
doo...@excite.com
> PS: One aspect of audience behaviour puzzles me. In what is
> supposed to be a learned audience, how come there were people
> who, after listening to the artist sing Bhairavi, still pester
> the artist for "more"? Bhimsen Joshi had to loudly announce
> "No more songs"!
Dover Lane is not a learned audience any longer according to reports I
hear. Part of the general aesthetic and intellectual evolution (read
decline) of the musical tastes of the Bengali middle class. Dover
lane is a sari-gohona event under its new management where relatives
and sycophants have an unacceptably higher probability of being
featured than their talents would entitle them to (even in a an
admittedly nepotistic culture such as that of music conferences in
general).
Not that I have anything against nepotism per se, but why does power
almost always seem to be with people who have bad taste? Why can't
people with *good* taste seem to be able get into positions where they
can be nepotistic too?
cheers,
r.
Havanur
> "Abhik Majumdar" <a.maj...@mailinator.com> wrote...
> >
> > First, some mild self-aggrandisement. My book on Pt. Bhimsen Joshi
> > recently got published.
>
> Congratulations! And thanks for sharing your experience with us. Do
> tell us more about the book.
>
> > His age showed only rarely, such as when he mistimed the 'sam' a
> > couple of times (will confim this
> > when I listen to the recording).
>
> This is not unusual for Bhimsen at any age. Aamad and the precision
> of sam placement were never his strong points.
>
What is Aamad? Sounds like soemthing you import.
> > Anand Gopal Bandyopadhyaya on hte
> > tabla was very understanding, and skillfully covered up such rare
> > lapses.
>
> "Covering up" to a significant degree is (or should be) looked
> down upon so the epithet "skillful" is inapt to describe such an
> action (even if it requires a certian kind of skill!). When such
> lapses do happen, there are graceful ways of handling the situation
> without resorting to subterfuge.
>
What acording to you would be the graceful response from the tabla
player under the circs?
Abhik - can you tell us how exactly did the tabalchi "cover up" on
this occassion?
TIA to both.
Havanur
Rajan P. Parrikar
>What is Aamad?
The term defines the arrival of the handle of the
bandish (or a melodic line) back into the orbit
of the tala, en route to the sam.
Chetan says Amad wasn't among Bhimsen's strong
points. It wasn't his weak suit either. I
would argue that (the early) Bhimsen displayed
a superb grasp of the bandish structure (bandish
used here in the broader sense (vide Vamanrao
Deshpande)).
Warm regards,
r
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
"Rajan P. Parrikar" <mylas...@yaaahoooterrs.com> wrote in message
news:c137r...@drn.newsguy.com...
I would second that - it seems like he has given it less attention over the
years, but back in the days when he was singing in "kaali-2", "safed-3", and
up, he gave conspicuously more weight to this aspect. Back then, there was
also a real sweetness to the singing along with the well-timed "brute force"
(for lack of a better word) displays. Recordings from those days also
highlight the commonalities with his Kirana predecessors, where voice
production is concerned. Note that in the case of the higher tonic and the
sweetness/amad/other aspects, correlation does not imply causality.
Sanjeev
Sachin
I can not understand what pride Rajan Parrikar, Nani and all these
assholes take in using such a disgusting, childish language about
revered ICM artists like BJ.
- Sachin
"naniwadekar" <nani3...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<c12efr$1b9o96$1...@ID-75735.news.uni-berlin.de>...
Ashok
>
>would argue that (the early) Bhimsen displayed
>a superb grasp of the bandish structure (bandish
>used here in the broader sense (vide Vamanrao
>Deshpande)).
>
>Warm regards,
>
>
>r
Can you elaborate on bandish in the broader
sense or give pointers for any earlier article
that talked about it?
Ashok
Rajan P. Parrikar
>Can you elaborate on bandish in the broader
>sense or give pointers for any earlier article
>that talked about it?
You are referred to the chapter "'Bandeesh' and the
Laws of Form" in Vamanrao Deshpande's "Indian
Musical Traditions" (Popular Prakashan, Mumbai).
Some relevant material is reproduced below from
that chapter -
"In each tal-cycle or a group of them an aesthetically
pleasing plan [...] is followed. This construction
from beginning to end is known to musicians as Bandeesh...
This aesthetic construction has to appear not merely
in alapi but in every other single element named earlier.
Just as each tone or tonal combination within an avartana
must heighten the effect of preceding and succeeding ones,
so each avartana must come inevitably after the preceding
one and serve as a background to the succeeding one.
Each successive avartana must thus excel the one that
has gone before. This process goes on until the last
avartana in which the very acme of tension is reached,
to be followed by a grand resolution...The significance
of a bandeesh must be clear by now. Each avartana, or
a bunch of them, is bandeesh-bound internally; and the
bandeesh of an entire recital is made up of a string
of avartanas bound to each other in the manner prescribed.
This, the internal organisation of a musical piece is
entirely 'formal' or bound by bandeesh. One peculiar
feature of bandeesh is that in every time cycle it
contains two kinds of tonal combinations. One forms
part of the dhruvapada or the 'face' (chehra) or the
song-text; the second is the upaj part or the derivative
phrases. The first can be described as 'constant', as
the word dhruvapada itself suggests, and the second as
'variable'. In each cycle the upaj part comes in varying
strands of notes but the sam is always reached by the
constant face of the cheej..."
Warm regards,
r
girish
not two, but up to 25 chances to prove his mettle, to show
that he was not a spent force in his late sixties. What a pity! Even the
esteeemed Pt. Jasraj would not fail to please given so
many chances. Please, no one tell Pandit BJ of his monumental
failure, for he would be devastated by the revelation that
he lived his last 20-30 years in vain.
Maybe part of the blame should be placed on the organizers
of these 25 concerts for not alerting BJ to the fact that the greatest
rasik, the most discerning music critic of our times was
in the audience, and that he should put on his best or
risk complete loss of credibility.
Or is it possible..., please bear with me here, for I am
going out on a limb..., is it possible that the
charlatan shastriboa Naniwadekar cannot tell his own head
from his ass, and is simply given to blow hot air?
'I gave him so many chances...' for heaven's sake!
As an unobtrusive pedestrian on this cyber-street, who has
always carefully walked around the nano-piles (mega-piles,
really), and also as one who enjoyed Pandit Bhimsen Joshi's
memorable recital in Sawai Gandharva festival of 2000 a
few months after his major surgery(***), I would be inclined
to vote for the second possibility. How about you?
(***) I hastily point out that it was Pt. BJ who had the
surgery in the year 2000, not me. I know the Nanster is
at his cutest when picking on slips such as this one.
- Girish Kulkarni
"naniwadekar" <nani3...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<c12efr$1b9o96$1...@ID-75735.news.uni-berlin.de>...
Warren Senders
>not two, but up to 25 chances to prove his mettle, to show
>that he was not a spent force in his late sixties. What a pity! Even the
>esteeemed Pt. Jasraj would not fail to please given so
>many chances. Please, no one tell Pandit BJ of his monumental
>failure, for he would be devastated by the revelation that
>he lived his last 20-30 years in vain.
>Maybe part of the blame should be placed on the organizers
>of these 25 concerts for not alerting BJ to the fact that the greatest
>rasik, the most discerning music critic of our times was
>in the audience, and that he should put on his best or
>risk complete loss of credibility.
>
>Or is it possible..., please bear with me here, for I am
>going out on a limb..., is it possible that the
>charlatan shastriboa Naniwadekar cannot tell his own head
>from his ass, and is simply given to blow hot air?
>'I gave him so many chances...' for heaven's sake!
Nicely put, Girish.
I heard Bhimsenji dozens of times from the early 80 s through the
mid-90s. There were many concerts where he was obviously
tired and put out a minimal display of effort...but there were many
more where he sang superbly, with tremendous emotion,
spot-on intonation, and raagdari that was just out of this world.
I remember, among others, his superb Todi from SG 1985, a
marvellous Darbari Kanada at Garware College in 1986, a private
mehfil in Pune in July of that year where he sang a long Malkauns
that remains one of the pinnacles of my music-listening experience...
and, perhaps most memorably, a 5 1/2 hour concert at Khimji's
private concert room in Mumbai; he sang a variety of items which
were not part of his usual fare, including a Purvi, a Bageshri-ang Naiki
Kanada, a Megh Malhar and a number of others for an audience of
extremely vocal and appreciative rasikas.
WRT to Nani's opinion, I like to remember the story of the
Carnatic vidwan who noticed a stern-faced listener in the front
row of his audience. All the other members of the audience were
visibly appreciative, but this chap remained palpably disapproving
throughout the whole program, his face sour, his entire body
in a fault-finding attitude.
As he began the final item, the singer, irritated, sang a passage which
included one painfully besura note.
The curmudgeon's face brightened, and he said "aah!"
Whereupon the singer said, "Sir, now that you have found your
property, won't you please go home?"
WS
naniwadekar
"Warren Senders" <war...@aol.comqwerty> wrote -
>
> I heard Bhimsenji dozens of times from the early 80 s through the
> mid-90s. There were many concerts where he was obviously
> tired and put out a minimal display of effort...but there were many
> more where he sang superbly, with tremendous emotion,
> spot-on intonation, and raagdari that was just out of this world.
>
Suffice it to say that my observation does not tally with yours
and after inviting feedback from other, often formidably knowl-
edgeable, sources, I found that my reading of Bhimsen did not
lack support among connoiseurs.
The list of great Bhimsen performances enumerated by you
is irrelevant; I had myself mentioned that I had heard some
great raags by him in the 1980s. If I had written 3-4 lines
each about 6-7 truly great items, I could have myself posted
a longish paragraph on his continued capacity to sing very well
in the 1980s -- but then logic has never been your strong
point and I have had lot of fun on rmic gently pointing out
holes in your logic and then seeing your pathetic attempts
to cover up. (That you are a pathetic scumbag fit to piss
upon is a new discovery for me, though. You want *Rajan*
to post against me because *you* are upset with my postings
and then you can even continue your loathsome game of telling
everyone who might care to listen how you alone among rmic
posters is the true repository of dignity. Wow, true dignity,
indeed!! Pimps have more dignity than you, Warren. They
at least don't expect Rajan or anybody else to do their dirty
work so that they may watch from the sidelines. And you even
have the gall to point fingers at others about their lack of dignity
despite your desire to have *them* do *your* dirty work.)
As for your talk on raagdari, even I can tell fairly confidently
how well a melodic piece has evolved. I have not read any
posts by you which would reveal your knowledge of raagdari.
Every time, Hindoli vs Bhinna Shadja type of issues come up,
I have to search Rajan's posts or ask him or Sanjeev over
email. Ergo, your silence on core issues is deafening and you
shouldn't talk about Raagdari with much more authority than
some of the rest of us do. "Warren pretending to have deep
knowledge of raagdari" can do nicely for illustration of
a mountebank. (Your strengths lie in other areas
which nicely exclude themselves from true knowledge of
raagdari.) I can't take seriously your endorsement of Bhimsen
presenting rare-for-him raags like Purvi very capably. It is
commonplace that Bhimsen is not at his best when he strays
from the raags best known to him. I have even heard him
defending himself unconvincingly about his excessive preference
for some raags when he tried to hide behind the choice of
raags Kesarbai or Bade Ghulam made.
> and, perhaps most memorably, a 5 1/2 hour concert at Khimji's
> private concert room in Mumbai; he sang a variety of items which
> were not part of his usual fare, including a Purvi, a Bageshri-ang Naiki
> Kanada, a Megh Malhar and a number of others for an audience of
> extremely vocal and appreciative rasikas.
>
Rasika-s at a Bhimsen concert are always vocal. Just as you
want your 'dignity', they want their proximity to him. I will believe
that Bhimsen sang Purvi or Naiki Kanada well when I hear from
someone I could trust. He does sing Megh very well; I have also
heard a superb Marwa-thaat Gauri by him but when I heard his
Purvi in 1980s, he was just pretending to sing.
>
> WRT to Nani's opinion, I like to remember the story of the
> Carnatic vidwan who noticed a stern-faced listener in the front
> row of his audience.
>
Yet again you announce that your grasp of logic would make
a 15-year old blush. Your insinuation that I am on a fault-finding
mission will simply boomerang back up your sorry ass
when I point out that in the same time-frame, I was enjoying
mehfils by Mansur, Kishori, Veena Sahasrabuddhe and many
others and have often said so. I even liked Arati Ankalikar's
cassette releases around 1988-1990. If my opinion does not
have any takers, I can live with it. But your attempts to convince
that I must be attending concerts with a negative disposition are
idiotic. This very thread offers proof against your pathetic lies.
Consider yourself pissed upon and try to improve your logic
or you are due for more kicks up your arse from me. Rmic
archives are full of evidence for your poor grasp of logic and
devoid of evidence for your comments on some core areas.
That Bhimsen was a washed-up singer more often than not
in the 1980s is true. Even Rajan's and Sanjeev's posts, without
saying so much in so strong terms or in so many words, have
reserved higher praise for the *early* Bhimsen. Anyone who
cared to compare the reaction to Bhimsen's second LP
of abhangs with his first 1970s LP will also find evidence
of decline. The criticism was muted because of Bhimsen's
PR skill and stature. It took Bhimsen's joining hands again
with the composer of his first Abhang-wani LP, Ram Phatak,
for a more decent LP #3 to come out and even then it was
not a patch on the first LP (which had 'maajhe maaher pa.nDharii').
Bhimsen's LP with Lata (md- Shrinivas Khale) came out around
1984 and is quite mediocre. He did not lose the capacity
to roll back the years but such occasions were far too rare
for me to continue attending his mehfils.
- dn
naniwadekar
"Sanjeev Ramabhadran" wrote -
> >
> > Chetan says Amad wasn't among Bhimsen's strong
> > points. It wasn't his weak suit either. I
> > would argue that (the early) Bhimsen displayed
> > a superb grasp of the bandish structure (bandish
> > used here in the broader sense (vide Vamanrao
> > Deshpande)).
>
> I would second that - it seems like he has given it less
> ... gave conspicuously more weight to this aspect. Back
> then, there was also a real sweetness to the singing ...
>
I agree, Sanjeev, about the sweetness part. Even in case
of handling the mukhada, Bhimsen's approach in his good
(mostly old) recitals is conspicuously different from his latter
day efforts when he was living off his name. Gone is the smooth
approach to the sam to be replaced, in his lazy recitals, by
a jerky gait with 2-3 ungainly jhataka-s on words of the mukhada
before he lands on the sam amidst the raised dust.
Elsewhere, Abhik Majumdar has written :
"Age indeed does not wither him, nor custom stale his
infinite variety."
I agree with the variety part. It is amazing how he tweaks his
material, especially conspicuously in lighter items, to make
his recitals fascinating. I think a cassette can be put together
with 10-15 renditions of (say) "Indrayani Kathi", each having
its mukhada ever-so-slightly altered.
- dn
naniwadekar
"Ashok" <adhar...@iimcal.ac.in> wrote -
>
> My impressions of his performance (as the final artist of the event
> at the Dover Lane concert) past month are very similar. This was the
>
Congratulations! This is the first evidence, after writing garbage
on rmic for years, that you have actually listened to a concert or
(not to be too demanding) you have been at least 'present at
a concert' . Wow, Ashok!
>
> Thanks for a very engaging write-up.
>
Engaging? Really? Most accounts of 'My day with xxxx' are
more engaging than that and if the 'xxxx' is Bhimsen, the
accounts are even more engaging than normal. But 'no word
without warrant' scumbag (from Boston) called it a nice
account, so it *must* be engaging. It is amazing how the author's
identity affects reactions to any post. If a gentleman like
Naniwadekar had posted the same account, the rmic sheep
wouldn't have bleated the same compliments.
But my reaction isn't really a knock on Abhik because all
of us have posted our share of dull accounts of our meetings
with assorted so-and-so-s. In fact, Abhik needs to be
commended for talking about his book in more muted key
than was necessary. The note could have been sharper
by several more shruti-s. That said, the account of his
day with Bhimsen was really quite pedestrian with each
unfolding event entirely predictable. By the end, I was
desperately hoping for some leaven -- like Abhik, Ulhas
and Madhup Mudgal being allowed to join Bhimsen and
Manisha Koirala resting in BJ's room rather than BJ and
his son Shrinivas. But, hey, this isn't Bhimsen of 20 years
ago for him to be enjoying quality time with nubile nymphs.
- dn
doo...@excite.com
interspersed my "take"
with some clips from the master's offering. Hope you enjoy the
jugalbandi.
"naniwadekar" <nani3...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<c18r6a$1fa86d$1...@ID-75735.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> The list of great Bhimsen performances enumerated by you
> is irrelevant; I had myself mentioned that I had heard some
> great raags by him in the 1980s. If I had written 3-4 lines
> each about 6-7 truly great items, I could have myself posted
Bhimsen sang well, even by my standards,
> when I point out that in the same time-frame, I was enjoying
> mehfils by Mansur, Kishori, Veena Sahasrabuddhe and many
> others and have often said so. I even liked Arati Ankalikar's
> cassette releases around 1988-1990.
I'm not biassed, see I will acknowledge others sang well. "even" some
lesser others sang well...
> That Bhimsen was a washed-up singer more often than not
> in the 1980s is true. Even Rajan's and Sanjeev's posts, without
But Bhimsen might not have sung well (and even others will say that)
...
> He did not lose the capacity
> to roll back the years but such occasions were far too rare
> for me to continue attending his mehfils.
Well ok, he might have still sung well, but not well enough for me ...
Wow!!! And to think that the Universe was created and Tansen lived
and died just so that one Nonentitywadekar might some day come along
to comment on the music. Awesome indeed.
r.
Warren Senders
>that I must be attending concerts with a negative disposition are
>idiotic.
But Nani, you HAVE a negative disposition. You don't
go anywhere without it. Hence you must be attending
concerts with it, too.
>This very thread offers proof against your pathetic lies.
>Consider yourself pissed upon and try to improve your logic
>or you are due for more kicks up your arse from me. Rmic
>archives are full of evidence for your poor grasp of logic and
>devoid of evidence for your comments on some core areas.
<snork>
<giggle>
<snirk>
<grin>
Oh my god...<hiccup>....
<chuckle>
....tries hard to restrain laughter...
<snark>
....fails....
....posts this rejoinder while holding sides and roaring...
----------------
When Nixon's "enemies list" came out in the mid-seventies,
a lot of good liberals were mortified to discover that they
weren't important enough to be listed.
I'm on Nani's list!
Drinks for everybody! Hurrah!
<capers gleefully around office>
You have no idea how mortifying it has been to have endured
respectful treatment from you all these many years. Thank God.
Now I can die happy.
WS
naniwadekar
"Warren Senders" <war...@aol.comqwerty> wrote -
>
> go anywhere without it. Hence you must be attending
> concerts with it, too.
>
Nonsense. This bogey of negative disposition does not
prevent me from enjoying several mehfils; why should it
affect my response only for some artists and not for others?
Once again, your 'logic' is amusing.
>
> ....tries hard to restrain laughter...
> ....posts this rejoinder while holding sides and roaring...
>
> You have no idea how mortifying it has been to have endured
> respectful treatment from you all these many years. Thank God.
> Now I can die happy.
>
Where is Warren Senders, the man of dignity, who professed
as recently as last month that when someone pisses upon
somebody else, everyone must have a wash? Your tall
talk about dignity is utterly hollow, Warren. Now that you know
you have been properly pissed upon with no attempt at doing
it gently, you have suddenly discovered the virtue behind ignoring
talk which you don't agree with? What hypocrisy!
I did know that your lofty talk about decorum was just
a pathetic attempt to be seen as a moral force by gullible
rmic readers. But I was never fooled and I knew it won't
take much to unmask you if you ever tried to position
yourself on an absurdly high moral perch. Please resume
wallowing in the mud of your dignity now.
- dn
Manohar Bodas
>.
Pimps have more dignity than you,
Yes Dhenubaba. You have some some dignity in that case.
MB
sandip
(md- Shrinivas Khale (?) )I am just curious having all three
recordings and liked the second one in part because the
instrumentation was much more simple than the first one...But then I
have a very untrained ear so I do not claim the status of a
connoisseur or anyone else.
Thanks in advance...
Sandip.
Havanur
> Carnatic vidwan who noticed a stern-faced listener in the front
> row of his audience. All the other members of the audience were
> visibly appreciative, but this chap remained palpably disapproving
> throughout the whole program, his face sour, his entire body
> in a fault-finding attitude.
>
> As he began the final item, the singer, irritated, sang a passage which
> included one painfully besura note.
>
> The curmudgeon's face brightened, and he said "aah!"
>
> Whereupon the singer said, "Sir, now that you have found your
> property, won't you please go home?"
>
> WS
Irrelevant anecdote you idiot. The bag of conceit in your story could
actually identify a besura note. No resemblance to the subject under
study.
Havanur
Warren Senders
I stand corrected!
WS
Chetan Vinchhi
"Rajan P. Parrikar" <mylas...@yaaahoooterrs.com> wrote...
>
> >What is Aamad?
>
> The term defines the arrival of the handle of the
> bandish (or a melodic line) back into the orbit
> of the tala, en route to the sam.
Nicely put. The term literally means "arrival" IIRC. The
effect of good aamad on the listener is the build-up of
expectation of the upcoming sam well before (in theory,
from the previous sam itself) its arrival. This pent-up
tension is released with great satisfaction with the
accurate arrival of the sam.
> Chetan says Amad wasn't among Bhimsen's strong
> points. It wasn't his weak suit either. I
> would argue that (the early) Bhimsen displayed
> a superb grasp of the bandish structure (bandish
> used here in the broader sense (vide Vamanrao
> Deshpande)).
There are recordings where Bhimsen has sung with little
or no care for the sam. The 1950s recording of Multani
(Bhimsen's voice is in fine form here) released by Music
Today is one such example. In the drut ektaal bandish
"nainan me.n aan baan", there are plenty of half-baked
tihais that fail to land and taans that end nowhere. Sams
come and go, with Bhimsen trying to desperately to catch
some. The success rate is dismal. And this is in no way
atypical.
C
Chetan Vinchhi
"Havanur" <spamb...@att.net> wrote...
>
> > When such
> > lapses do happen, there are graceful ways of handling the situation
> > without resorting to subterfuge.
> >
>
> What acording to you would be the graceful response from the tabla
> player under the circs?
It depends on the relative statures and the mutual comfort levels of the
two people. A senior tabalchi might make a "koii baat nahii.n" gesture
or sound and encourage the singer to continue. A junior accompanist
might have to wait for the singer to acknowledge the lapse before
reacting in any way. Equals can share a knowing chuckle and continue.
If in a more playful mood (and more likely in the drut phase of the
performance) the tabalchi might play a piece to *highlight* the lapse.
And so on, without deliberately compromising the sanctity of the sam.
C
Abhik Majumdar
>Congratulations! And thanks for sharing your experience with us. Do
>tell us more about the book.
Could you send me your e-mail address, please?
Abhik Majumdar
who enjoyed my orignial posting.
On 21 Feb 2004 18:46:25 -0800, doo...@excite.com (doo...@excite.com)
wrote:
>This is truly mindboggling stuff we have here folks! I've
>interspersed my "take"
>with some clips from the master's offering. Hope you enjoy the
>jugalbandi.
(snip)
Made my day, and no mistake!
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:52:35 -0800, "naniwadekar"
<nani3...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>scumbag (from Boston)
and then
>rmic sheep
Let me get this straight, now. Are you referring to different
entities, or using such widely different epithets for the same person?
Or is it just that you don't like haggis?
>. . . a gentleman like Naniwadekar
If you insist . . ..
>In fact, Abhik needs to be commended for
>talking about his book in more muted key
>than was necessary.
Gracious of you, appreciate that. But do you really mean it was
necessary for me to be more strident?
And on a more serious note:
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:47:34 +0530, "Chetan Vinchhi"
<nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> Anand Gopal Bandyopadhyaya on hte
>> tabla was very understanding, and skillfully covered up such rare
>> lapses.
>
>"Covering up" to a significant degree is (or should be) looked
>down upon so the epithet "skillful" is inapt to describe such an
>action (even if it requires a certian kind of skill!). When such
>lapses do happen, there are graceful ways of handling the situation
>without resorting to subterfuge.
In almost any other situation I would have agreed with you completely.
I'd even say it's incumbent on the percussionist's professional and
musical integrity *not* to cover up for the main performer's lapses in
tala. And especially so if the main performer is a 'big name'.
But this occasion was special. The contrast between him in the
greenroom and ten minutes into his performance was so great, it was
like a dried flower blooming to life in a bowl of water.
Dhananjay Naniwadekar described my account as pedestrian. I for one
wouldn't care to challenge him. No written account (and definitely
none by me, I can say without being falsely modest) can measure up to
what we experienced.
Covering up once or twice was not like forgiving an old man his
lapses. The magnificent grit he showed, the superhuman effort he put
in, virtually commanded us to overlook minor errors. Indeed, it would
have been churlish of Ananda Gopal Babu to have done anything else.
On 19 Feb 2004 11:39:12 -0800, spamb...@att.net (Havanur) wrote:
>Abhik - can you tell us how exactly did the tabalchi "cover up" on
>this occassion?
The very few times it hapened, Panditji would hit the sam too early
(mostly to coincide with the "dhin" on the eleventh matra). Ananda
Gopal Babu would then duly start the next avartan from that point on.
Abhik
Harish
<<perhaps most memorably, a 5 1/2 hour concert at Khimji's
private concert room in Mumbai; he sang a variety of items which
were not part of his usual fare, including a Purvi, a Bageshri-ang
Naiki
Kanada, a Megh Malhar and a number of others for an audience of
extremely vocal and appreciative rasikas.>>
Warren, I was there at Khimji's in Bombay that evening and I remember
that Panditji indeed sang maginificently that night which began around
11 and ended in the early morning around 5:30. He sang Ramkali which
was very different from his ususal Ramkali. It is still one of my most
memorable performances. I have heard Panditji a lot in late 60s when I
lived in Pune and he used to perform a lot during his drinking days.
He would walk no stagger fully drunk into Jawahar Hotel bar and
introduce himself to all fellow drinkers with his famous wink: "Mee
Bhimsen ahe....." and all of us would just break out laughing. Those
were the good old days when the level of performances at Sawai
Gandharava was at its best.
Best regards,
Harish
PS in Panditji's collection Siddhi, there are number of CDs which are
from the recordings made at Khimji's residence in Mumbai.
naniwadekar
"Abhik Majumdar" <a.maj...@mailinator.com> wrote -
>
> >. . . a gentleman like Naniwadekar
>
> If you insist . . ..
>
Far from it. I simply don't care what you might say about it.
> >In fact, Abhik needs to be commended for
> >talking about his book in more muted key
> >than was necessary.
>
> Gracious of you, appreciate that. But do you really mean it was
> necessary for me to be more strident?
>
I don't see why you should ask me that question, much less
why I should answer it.
- dn
Warren Senders
>private concert room in Mumbai; he sang a variety of items which
>were not part of his usual fare, including a Purvi, a Bageshri-ang
>Naiki
>Kanada, a Megh Malhar and a number of others for an audience of
>extremely vocal and appreciative rasikas.>>
>
>Warren, I was there at Khimji's in Bombay that evening and I remember
>that Panditji indeed sang maginificently that night which began around
>11 and ended in the early morning around 5:30. He sang Ramkali which
>was very different from his ususal Ramkali. It is still one of my most
>memorable performances.
He really did give of himself; the quality of listeners in that room
had a great deal to do with it. Too bad we didn't get a chance to
meet. If you cast your mind back and visualize the crowd, you
might see me lurking around the edges with my tape recorder.
I used to travel with Panditji during that year, and heard a great
many of his concerts that way.
WS
Daniel Fuchs
you must surely have had an extremely difficult childhood...
If you at least *tried* not to be a complete asshole every now and then,
I would maybe feel sorry for you. But you know you are one and you like
being one, because it's the only thing you know. The funny thing is,
you're not even good at it.
Poor sod.
Please leave this newsgroup forever. As far as I am concerned, you are
no longer welcome. You are unable to contribute anything of any value to
the topic of this group.
Daniel
naniwadekar
"Daniel Fuchs" <dfu...@stud.uni-goettingen.de> wrote -
>
> Nani,
> you must surely have had an extremely difficult childhood...
>
Keith Erskine is much smarter than you, Daniel. It took him
just 2-3 days to figure out that I must have had an extremely
difficult childhood.
- dn
Manohar Bodas
>I must have had an extremely difficult childhood.
>
>
> - dn
MB
Abhik Majumdar
Which is why you posted it on a public forum, I suppose?
>I don't see why you should ask me that question, much less
>why I should answer it.
I don't know about the second part of your statement, but as to the
first part, that's what you implied. A trifilng matter of plain
English.
naniwadekar
> >why I should answer it.
>
> I don't know about the second part of your statement, but as to the
> first part, that's what you implied. A trifilng matter of plain
> English.
>
No; you need to improve your reading comprehension.
I had written : "The note could (not *should*) have been
sharper by several more shruti-s." I hope you understand
the difference. I also hope people with better reading
comprehension than yours will have reasonably smooth
experience with your book.
- dn
naniwadekar
"Warren Senders" <war...@aol.comqwerty> wrote -
>
> >private concert room in Mumbai; he sang a variety of items which
> >were not part of his usual fare, including a Purvi, a Bageshri-ang
> >Naiki
> >Kanada, a Megh Malhar and a number of others for an audience of
> >extremely vocal and appreciative rasikas.>>
> >
> >Warren, I was there at Khimji's in Bombay that evening and I remember
> >that Panditji indeed sang maginificently that night which began around
> >11 and ended in the early morning around 5:30. He sang Ramkali which
> >was very different from his ususal Ramkali. It is still one of my most
> >memorable performances.
>
> He really did give of himself; the quality of listeners in that room
> had a great deal to do with it. Too bad we didn't get
> a chance to meet.
>
Your desire to meet people (and impress them with your dignity)
is touching but you are (almost 100% certainly) talking of two
different mehfils. The range of raags is too wide time-wise.
Bhimsen is quite unlikely to have started a mehfil with Purvi
(at 11 PM?) and kept it going until Ramkali at 5:30
in the morning.
- dn
Daniel Fuchs
naniwadekar wrote:
>
>
> Keith Erskine is much smarter than you, Daniel. It took him
> just 2-3 days to figure out that I must have had an extremely
> difficult childhood.
I have this silly tendency to believe that every person is essentially
good and not evil, even if he acts otherwise.
You keep proving that you have no respect whatsoever for anyone but
yourself (if at all...). You'd even consider it an achievement to get
Warren pissed off (I guess he's too busy laughing at you to actually be
pissed...).
Something's severely wrong with you. I can't deny that I considered you
to be an interesting and nice person initially. Your unstoppable urge to
comment on practically everything you see here (and in other groups, I
suspect) and the way you do so tells me that you really need to get
yourself a life in the real world. Meet some real people. Use your mouth
to communicate, not a keyboard. Leave the computer off for some weeks,
or better for many months...
Daniel
Daniel Fuchs
Manohar Bodas wrote:
> And now a shameless adulthood.
>
You have proven to be no better than Nani. Please refrain from further
mudslinging. Kindly abstain completely from commenting on Nani's
postings in the future. Your sick private feuds with him have
practically ruined this group. As far as I'm concerned, rmic would be a
better place without both of you. Your signal/noise ratio is terrible.
Daniel
Abhik Majumdar
>I had written : "The note could (not *should*) have been
>sharper by several more shruti-s."
I had noticed that earlier. I don't see how it helps. All it does is
highlight that you've made two mutually inconsistent statements in
successive sentences. Just because the second one makes sense does not
mean the first one has to as well.
Warren Senders
>> had a great deal to do with it. Too bad we didn't get
>> a chance to meet.
>>
>Your desire to meet people (and impress them with your dignity)
>is touching but you are (almost 100% certainly) talking of two
>different mehfils. The range of raags is too wide time-wise.
>Bhimsen is quite unlikely to have started a mehfil with Purvi
>(at 11 PM?) and kept it going until Ramkali at 5:30
>in the morning.
You are probably right; I will check my recordings and see.
WS
Manohar Bodas
Shut up Daniel. I dont need advice from idiot like you.
MB
Warren Senders
>> mudslinging. Kindly abstain completely from commenting on Nani's
>> postings in the future. Your sick private feuds with him have
>> practically ruined this group. As far as I'm concerned, rmic would be a
>> better place without both of you. Your signal/noise ratio is terrible.
>>
>>
>> Daniel
>
>Shut up Daniel. I dont need advice from idiot like you.
Advice? Hardly. More of a request.
WS
Chetan Vinchhi
"Abhik Majumdar" <a.maj...@mailinator.com> wrote...
>
> But this occasion was special. The contrast between him in the
> greenroom and ten minutes into his performance was so great, it was
> like a dried flower blooming to life in a bowl of water.
This reminds me of an anecdote (heard 2-nd hand). Pt.Manikbua
Thakurdas was describing a mehfil of Ustad Alladiya Khan. The
old man was probably in his 90s then, could not walk without
assistance and could not even find his sur in the beginning. A few
minutes into the recital, however, he suddenly started singing like
he was transformed into his younger self, much like your dried
flower analogy. The 40-45 minutes recital that followed was a
memorable one.
> Covering up once or twice was not like forgiving an old man his
> lapses. The magnificent grit he showed, the superhuman effort he put
> in, virtually commanded us to overlook minor errors. Indeed, it would
> have been churlish of Ananda Gopal Babu to have done anything else.
I mildly disagree with that last sentence. Overlooking minor (or even
major) errors is not a problem. We *could* do it without having to
cover up. I do acknowledge it would be very awkward to do if the
singer is off by something like two whole vilambit matras.
C
ps - Abhik, did you get my email? I had sent you my email IDs.
Chetan Vinchhi
"Warren Senders" <war...@aol.comqwerty> wrote...
>
> Bageshri-ang Naiki Kanada
Could you elaborate on this?
> ...I like to remember the story of the
> Carnatic vidwan who noticed a stern-faced listener in the front
> row of his audience.
At the beginning of this story, I thought you were going to say
the "listener" in question was deaf :)
C
Daniel Fuchs
Manohar Bodas wrote:
> Shut up Daniel. I dont need advice from idiot like you.
That's exactly what I mean. Your just as hopeless as Nani.
Daniel
Warren Senders
>
>Could you elaborate on this?
IIRC, it involved many of the standard motions
of Naiki Kanada, but with the addition of a shuddh Dha
and some Bageshri motions as well. But it has been
years since I listened to the tape.
I'm out of town for the next few days, but on my
return I'll dig out the recording and let you know.
WS
Warren Senders
>> Carnatic vidwan who noticed a stern-faced listener in the front
>> row of his audience.
>
>At the beginning of this story, I thought you were going to say
>the "listener" in question was deaf :)
Sanjay Havanur has already corrected me on this!
WS
Daniel Fuchs
Manohar Bodas wrote:
>
>
> Shut up Daniel. I dont need advice from idiot like you.
>
That's exactly what I meant... You're just as hopeless as Nani. While I
was asking him to stop the silly fighting, you had nothing to
complain... Your behaviour is quite ridiculous.
Daniel
Abhik Majumdar
>Thakurdas was describing a mehfil of Ustad Alladiya Khan. The
>old man was probably in his 90s then, could not walk without
>assistance and could not even find his sur in the beginning. A few
>minutes into the recital, however, he suddenly started singing like
>he was transformed into his younger self, much like your dried
>flower analogy. The 40-45 minutes recital that followed was a
>memorable one.
The similarities are eerie! Apart from the not-able-to-walk bit,
Panditji also took his time finding his sur. The clot doing the
announcement hadn't mentioned the raga, and I was scared he'll sing
Shuddha Kalyan (heard all too often). For the first three minutes I
couldn't make out anything of the raga, except that the rishabha
seemed a bit flat for kalyan. His very shaky voice didn't help much
either. Slowly, the contours of Pooriya began to emerge. Then suddenly
he touched on the madhya pancham, and imediately began teh bandish
"aaj so bana". All was revealed.
>I mildly disagree with that last sentence.
Hmm, so let's leave it at that. I see your point, definitely.
>ps - Abhik, did you get my email? I had sent you my email IDs.
Yes, also replied to it.
Manohar Bodas
> Manohar Bodas wrote:
>
> > Shut up Daniel. I dont need advice from idiot like you.
>
MB
Daniel Fuchs
dignity. You are nothing but primitive...
Anand
> >This reminds me of an anecdote (heard 2-nd hand).
>
A neighbour of mine once recounted how he had watched an aging Bal
Gandharva being physically lifted and brought on to the stage of a
sangeet naatak and how he just stood in one place for the length of
the act, while his singing did not show any signs of being affected by
age or illness.
As kid brought up in Bombay, I used to enjoy natya-sangeet programs on
radio and TV. I remember them mostly for fast pace and the electrifying taans.
Can any kind RMICer suggest some good collections? I do
remember names like maanaapamaan, ekach pyaalaa, saubhadra but
the few casettes that I found with these names on the liners
invariably have poor quality recordings, typically with one or two good
songs, rest are garbage (either the songs or the singers or both).
Regards,
Anand.
Manohar Bodas
> Sorry, I was wrong. You are even worse than Nani. He's got _some_
> dignity. You are nothing but primitive...
Well may be. Nani has already posted that even a Pimp has dignity. So
you may be right. But you better Fuchs off.
MB
Sachin
- Sachin
Daniel Fuchs <dfu...@stud.uni-goettingen.de> wrote in message news:<403E7576...@stud.uni-goettingen.de>...
girish
CD #4 in the Swaradhiraj series has his Nayaki Kanada
with shuddha Dha. This is a recording from a 1986 house
concert, presumably the same one Warren refers to.
- Girish
Daniel Fuchs
Manohar Bodas wrote:
>
>
> Well may be. Nani has already posted that even a Pimp has dignity. So
> you may be right. But you better Fuchs off.
What an extremely witty remark. And so remarkably original and new.
Never heard that one before... Why don't you repeat it a few more times?
Punning on other people's names is really such a sign of subtlety and
intelligence...
I've let Google and Yahoo know about it, I do hope they will appreciate
your language just as much as I do.
naniwadekar
"Warren Senders" <war...@aol.comqwerty> wrote -
>
> >different mehfils. The range of raags is too wide time-wise.
> >Bhimsen is quite unlikely to have started a mehfil with Purvi
> >(at 11 PM?) and kept it going until Ramkali at 5:30
> >in the morning.
>
> You are probably right; I will check my recordings and see.
>
> WS
>
I emailed Shri Harish to ask whether he remembered hearing
Purvi in the same mehfil, in 1985-86 span, when you were with
Bhimsen. But he says he only remembers Ramkali clearly.
And the mehfil he was talking about was most probably
held during Shri Harish's visit to India in 1991.
- dn
naniwadekar
<doo...@excite.com> wrote -
>
> > He did not lose the capacity to roll back the years
> > but such occasions were far too rare
> > for me to continue attending his mehfils.
>
> Well ok, he might have still sung well, but not
> *well enough* for me ...
>
Doogie - Don't be so eager to announce your stupidity.
What I had meant was : Bhimsen did continue to sing well
on (rare) occasion(s) but not *often enough* for me.
It is well-known that your reading comprehension is too
poor for you to notice such matters but do you have to
issue periodic reminders to rmic about your being a jerk?
- dn
Chetan Vinchhi
"girish" <gir...@dslextreme.com> wrote...
>
> CD #4 in the Swaradhiraj series has his Nayaki Kanada
> with shuddha Dha. This is a recording from a 1986 house
> concert, presumably the same one Warren refers to.
I have the first two CDs in this series. Unusual (for Bhimsen)
morning raagas are featured on this subset. I haven't heard
them in a while but I remember being unimpressed with the
presentations.
C
Manohar Bodas
> Manohar Bodas wrote:
> >
> >
> > Well may be. Nani has already posted that even a Pimp has dignity. So
> > you may be right. But you better Fuchs off.
>
>
> I've let Google and Yahoo know about it, I do hope they will appreciate
> your language just as much as I do.
So now there is threat. Well go ahead Mr. F. You are wellknown to use
F words so often. Check your own posts laddie. No wonder I told you to
Fuchs off. Better way that your woderful language. And continue this
as long as you wish and make ab Ass of yourself. So Fuchs off again
MB
Nipun Shah
In addition to the Swaradhiraj CD # 4, I have one more of Bhimsen's
Nayaki Kanada recordings.
Both of them have following recurring phases.
S R P,
(M)g (M)g g g M
g M P M R S R, S
(n')R n', S, P' n' P' S, n R,
S R S R (M)g, M
M D n M n, D, M P, (M)g (M)g M D,
n P M P, (M)g (M)g M
Usage of Shuddha Dha above is quite deliberate.
Although, I didn't hear Bageshri ang in both the recordings. Kindly
correct me if I'm wrong.
Otherwise, Warren-ji could be talking about something else.
Regards
Nipun
naniwadekar
"Nipun Shah" <nipu...@hotmail.com> wrote -
>
> Usage of Shuddha Dha above is quite deliberate.
>
> Although, I didn't hear Bageshri ang in both the recordings. Kindly
> correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> Otherwise, Warren-ji could be talking about something else.
>
Warren-ji's knowledge about these things is very poor. So please
be gentle with him. I have already mentioned how it has been
a case of 'silence is golden' with Warren-ji when it comes
to real deep knowledge of raagdari. He can write beautifully
on topics within his fairly limited ken and if you are a fan of
his, you must content yourself with it. The achievement may be
considerable but let us not confuse it for what it isn't.
For excellent knowledge of raagdari, Rajan is above suspicion.
Sanjeev may not (perhaps) cover as wide a range of raags as
Rajan but, more importantly, his ear is as sure as Rajan's.
I could name a few more rmic posters/lurkers who have
provided me valuable feedback with intelligent comments
on raagdari on and off rmic. Warren-ji (the half-assed
scumbag) is not one of them.
When I questioned his knowledge of raagdari, I was sure
of two things. 1) He will immediately make some comments
on raagdari to prove his knowledge. 2) Sooner or later, he
will fall flat on his face. (In this particular case, the Nayaki
Kanada he heard at Khimji's may have had Bageshri ang in
it. But you get the general picture.)
Nurturing an army of dim-witted poodles like Ashok and
Doogie is one thing; commenting with authority on raagdari
quite another.
- dn
Manohar Bodas
>>
> For excellent knowledge of raagdari, Rajan is above suspicion.
> Sanjeev may not (perhaps) cover as wide a range of raags as
> Rajan but, more importantly, his ear is as sure as Rajan's.
> I could name a few more rmic posters/lurkers who have
> provided me valuable feedback with intelligent comments
> on raagdari on and off rmic. Warren-ji (the half-assed
> scumbag) is not one of them.
>
And you are the full-assed scumbug Piggy Baby Nanubaba.
MB
Nipun Shah
Dear DN,
Kindly desist from airing unsolicited opinions and judgements about
other people. Your post was irrelevant to the topic of "Bageshri ang
Nayaki Kanada". Also, it doesn't convince me enough to doubt Warren
Senders' knowledge of raagdaari. Probably this is because I have no
reasons whatsoever to trust YOUR opinions.
Regards
Nipun
naniwadekar
> other people. Your post was irrelevant to the topic of "Bageshri ang
> Nayaki Kanada". Also, it doesn't convince me enough to doubt Warren
> Senders' knowledge of raagdaari. Probably this is because I have no
> reasons whatsoever to trust YOUR opinions.
>
Be that as it may, I don't see why I should listen to *your*
unsolicited advice. Evaluating a poster's contribution to the
forum or his knowledge of the subject is done routinely on
Usenet forums. Since you yourself see it fit to pass comments
of that nature, it shouldn't be too hard for you to see that
others are free to do so, too.
- dn
Warren Senders
>of two things. 1) He will immediately make some comments
>on raagdari to prove his knowledge.
Raagdari is not inherently a field in which "commentary"
necessarily demonstrates any knowledge beyond how to
look up material in reference books. Knowledge of raagdari
is embodied in singing. If Nani or anyone else wishes to make
comments about my handling of particular ragas, he, she or it
is most welcome to do so; I am guaranteed to at the very least
greet the remarks with a Menckenesque "there may be something
in what you say." Rajan, for example, in his review of my CD,
commented that my handling of the "swoop" from the upper
Sa to the Madhyam in Gopika Basant was less than perfect --
IIRC his words were to the effect that I didn't do it much at all.
He was and is of course correct. If Nani wishes to carry out
analysis of my performance, I am sure that he will find many
instances in which I fall short of his standards. Certainly my performances
contain many instances in which I fall short of MY standards.
About Nani's performances...well, let us draw the curtains;
there are some things, gentle reader, that were not meant
for eyes the likes of ours.
>2) Sooner or later, he
>will fall flat on his face.
I have fallen flat on my face countless times over
the course of my professional life. The thought of
being (gasp!) proven wrong holds no terrors.
>(In this particular case, the Nayaki
>Kanada he heard at Khimji's may have had Bageshri ang in
>it. But you get the general picture.)
Aw, hell. I wasn't making the news, I was just reporting
it. When I heard Bhimsenji sing it, I couldn't identify
it, so I asked him later on what it was. He said "Nayaki
Kanada of Bageshri ang." I enjoyed the performance
then and recall listening to the tape with pleasure some
years ago. Satisfied?
>I could name a few more rmic posters/lurkers who have
>provided me valuable feedback with intelligent comments
>on raagdari on and off rmic. Warren-ji (the half-assed
>scumbag) is not one of them.
Warren, on the other hand, has provided you valuable feedback
on etiquette, which has, mirabile dictu, gone unheeded.
With all best wishes,
WS
naniwadekar
"Warren Senders" <war...@aol.comqwerty> wrote -
>
> necessarily demonstrates any knowledge beyond how to
> look up material in reference books.
>
This isn't the first time I have read the above argument
on rmic; I will respond at greater length later in the week.
- dn